Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 2 - The harvest

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freezeblade
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby freezeblade » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:55 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
freezeblade wrote:(no backup recruiter, so the living recruited folk exist still, but cannot kill)
So if recruits can't kill or recruit, how are they supposed to win?


We're pretty far into hypotheticals here, but In my hypothetical 5-1-1 setup with a killing cult (NK resides with recruiter) a strategy would be to convert as many town members as possible (which is usual anyway), and try to live as long as possible (which is typical anyway). The hope would be there would be enough converted (it would only take 2 or so), and enough wine floating around by the time the recruiter is found out and lynched, that the remaining cult non-recruiters would wait it out and spread more wine until the town lynches itself into the minority (I could see some sort of tie-breaking mechanic here to help).

I don't think this setup is very likely, by the way, somewhere around 5% is where I have it placed in my head, I'm just saying it's possible, and looking at some of the past games on these forums, this wouldn't even be that strange. The fact that you can't even imagine how a 5-1-1 setup would work given the town win condition makes me put an FoS on you, because it looks like you're not serious, just playing at reactions to see who you can get to look scummy.
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby freezeblade » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:10 pm UTC

I will note that the previous Fridge mafia had 9 players, and had a strange mafia setup, with a mafia member who had to be recruited, and didn't know who the rest were. a 5-1-1 could also work that way, where the 1-1 are both mafia, but only one has the kill, and they don't have a day/night chat until they "find each other" So it's not like non-standard mafia setups are totally off-brand for fridge mafia, and for this forum in general.
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:10 pm UTC

Evil George Washington has not yet read their role PM. Deadline set at just under four days from now.. If EGW takes much longer to arrive I will consider an extension. If anyone has non-XKCD forum ways to ping him and let him know the game has started please do so.
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:58 am UTC

Confirm.

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Sabrar
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:08 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:The fact that you can't even imagine how a 5-1-1 setup would work.
Sabrar wrote:Maybe 5-1-1 with 2 separate scum...

The town win-con means that scum shouldn't automatically win a tied-endgame if they have no nk left or if Town has Doctor. That's why cult with no nk after cl dies is pretty weird.
But imagine a simple scenario with your suggested your 5-1-1 setup with cl + indie. Suppose we mislynch D1, cult gets a recruit. It is now 3-2-1, 1 night with no death. Then we lynch the cl D2. Nothing relevant happens N2. It is now 3-1-1, 2 nights with no death. We mislynch again D3, but nothing happens N3 and town automatically wins due to no death 3 nights in a row. Is that how you imagine it?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:57 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Getting a bit too defensive, are we? I didn't 'go' after you, I simply made an observation.


Vote: Sabrar This is scum. He doesn't move his vote onto Mark, but says this to make Mark look bad. This is a subtle plant of a seed of doubt. There is no reason for him to ask that question if he's looking for scum.

freezeblade wrote:I agree that Mark seems a touch defensive, but I know I've been town in the same boat, and came off looking way too defensive as town as well (part of why I have such a scummy meta), and D1 rarely forms meaningful alignment-indicative results. very light FoS on Mark for that, putting him just south of neutral.


FOS Freezeblade. He knows to expect this to be town behavior as well, but he gives a slight fos for it anyway? This is a stretch, when he knows it should ultimately be null. There should be no logical reason for him to FOS Mark here.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:57 am UTC

The setup seems like 5-2 to me. It's possible that one town player may have some extra killing power or utility but nothing too fancy. That's it. No more setup talk from now on, it's time to hunt scum. It's easy for scum to hide within setup talk. Place your votes down. I'm going to sleep, good night.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:13 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:He doesn't move his vote onto Mark, but says this to make Mark look bad.
When will you learn that this forum does not follow the same 'rules' you're used to? We don't switch votes with every suspicion voiced, read back just about any game here.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby bessie » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:15 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:I’m the most townie. How did you miss that?
I didn't miss it. I never understood why people put themselves in the list. Apart from extreme cases your place in your own list is given and won't tell us anything. Therefore I tend to ignore it.
I don’t get why you’re not getting it. It’s a meta list, based on no content whatsoever. I’m on the woof end because I have a notoriously townie meta. It has nothing to do with me being the one making the list. I did the same thing in the previous game, and this one, which were a reference to this one.

bessie's standard Woof-Grrr based on no game content whatsoever:
Spoiler:
Woof
bessie
plytho
mpolo
LaserGuy
jimbobmacdoodle
somitomi
Sir Gabriel
UniqueScreenname
Evil George Washington
Hari Seldon
Sabrar
flicky
ConMan
MasterOfAll
dimochka
adnapemit
Suzaku
GopherOfPern
SDK
BoomFrog
Zenii
Diemo
SuicideJunkie
Carlington
Mark_Cangila
heuristically_alone
Vicarin
Misnomer
Peaceful Whale
Djehutynakht
YOLOSWAG
moody7277
freezeblade
AdamH
Vytron
Madge
Snark
Latero
wam*
Grrr

*Sorry wam, you probably don’t deserve the bottom spot, but I wanted to give the honor to someone that is playing in this game. :P

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Hey wam, we're not always on opposing sides. :wink:


Well one day we will have both of us on a scum team just to annoy bessie but today is not that day.
Hmmm.

freezeblade wrote: D1 rarely forms meaningful alignment-indicative results
I really think you underestimate D1. There are some players, those with the magic gift, that figure out the entire game by page 2.

Evil George Washington wrote:The setup seems like 5-2 to me. It's possible that one town player may have some extra killing power or utility but nothing too fancy. That's it. No more setup talk from now on, it's time to hunt scum. It's easy for scum to hide within setup talk.
Hi George, it’s been a while. You’ve forgotten how much xkcd loves setup spec. :P

Ninja'd.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:24 am UTC

bessie wrote:I don’t get why you’re not getting it.
Crossed wires, I half-treated it as a standard list.

Unvote

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:40 pm UTC

Were I confident in my early reads this is what I would probably go with:

TOWN
bessie
EGW
wam
moody
freezeblade
Mark
SCUM

But I'm not, so don't even ask.

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Sabrar
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:06 pm UTC

Lol, after scum kills me N1 the whole remaining game will fit on one page.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby freezeblade » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 pm UTC

*looking at bessie's standard list*

Djehutynakht
YOLOSWAG
moody7277
freezeblade
AdamH
Vytron
Madge

At first I was surprised I wasn't even further down the list, but it appears I'm in decent company. I saw Vytron pop onto another area of the forums yesterday. I wonder if we'll ever get another AdamH game.

Sabrar wrote:The town win-con means that scum shouldn't automatically win a tied-endgame if they have no nk left or if Town has Doctor. That's why cult with no nk after cl dies is pretty weird.
But imagine a simple scenario with your suggested your 5-1-1 setup with cl + indie. Suppose we mislynch D1, cult gets a recruit. It is now 3-2-1, 1 night with no death. Then we lynch the cl D2. Nothing relevant happens N2. It is now 3-1-1, 2 nights with no death. We mislynch again D3, but nothing happens N3 and town automatically wins due to no death 3 nights in a row. Is that how you imagine it?


I more imagine it (in this hypothetical) We mislynch D1, cult gets a recruit and a death happens (cult leader gets a recruit/kill), It would then Be 2-2-1. We lynch CL D2, nothing happens N2 as a result, It would then be 3-1-1. 3-1-1 with an indie and no night kill makes for a very interesting endgame to play, as it can really go many directions, especially if the indie can win with either team, or there's a tie-breaker mechanic that sides with scum (or a vote-changing indie power)
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm UTC

I assume you meant 2-1-1 at the end. But how do you expect to lynch CL D2 if indie can win with scum or there's a tie-breaker mechanic that favors scum? If 2-1-1 is an interesting endgame, how does scum not win in 2-2-1?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby wam » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:15 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Lol, after scum kills me N1 the whole remaining game will fit on one page.


I will try but with how hectic life is wont hit high content levels.

Initial feeling is bessie and sabrar town. Mark scummy and everyone else neutral.
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby moody7277 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:28 pm UTC

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Lol, after scum kills me N1 the whole remaining game will fit on one page.


I will try but with how hectic life is wont hit high content levels.

Initial feeling is bessie and sabrar town. Mark scummy and everyone else neutral.


If pressed, which side of neutral would you put me and fb?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby freezeblade » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:25 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:I assume you meant 2-1-1 at the end. But how do you expect to lynch CL D2 if indie can win with scum or there's a tie-breaker mechanic that favors scum? If 2-1-1 is an interesting endgame, how does scum not win in 2-2-1?


We're really straying too far into the hypothetical here, and is just posts filling up space, but Scum would likely win 2-2-1, certainly. I know this is meta, but when I play neutral indie, I typically side with town unless it's clear they're set to lose (thus I would lose with them). I typically don't trust Mafia when they claim that indie's win condition is compatible to their own.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:37 pm UTC

Yes, it's very hypothetical. I would prefer if you would offer opinion on actual happenings but I'm aware you rarely do this D1. So this is the next best thing.

freezeblade wrote:I more imagine it (in this hypothetical) We mislynch D1, cult gets a recruit and a death happens (cult leader gets a recruit/kill), It would then Be 2-2-1. We lynch CL D2, nothing happens N2 as a result,
I still don't understand how you envisioned the above scenario if "Scum would likely win 2-2-1, certainly."

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby freezeblade » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:13 pm UTC

Because you're asking me to defend and stretch out my 5% edge case musings until it's obvious they have flaws? Not like it matters really, as the possibility that we have this case is still...quite low. Like I said earlier, the 5-2 makes the most sense.
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:57 am UTC

Sabrar, why have you not commented on anyone else's setup musings this extensively? Do you think Freezeblade's cult idea is super relevant? Yeah, I know you like to point out flaws but this seems way too much. What is your issue with freezeblade?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:42 am UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Sabrar, why have you not commented on anyone else's setup musings this extensively? Do you think Freezeblade's cult idea is super relevant? Yeah, I know you like to point out flaws but this seems way too much. What is your issue with freezeblade?
freezeblade was the only one who suggested cult. I'm trying to see if he actually thought about how cult would work in such a small game or if he just put it out there to have some 'content' without actually considering it.
Why are you defending him instead of doing something productive?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby bessie » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:18 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:I don’t get why you’re not getting it.
Crossed wires, I half-treated it as a standard list.
What do you mean by “half-treated it as a standard list”? Did you also half-treat it as a serious list? If you knew it was a joke, why were you questioning George’s placement? If you thought it was serious, why didn’t you also question freezelade’s placement? freezeblade hadn’t posted yet so I had zero basis for ranking him on a serious list.

freezeblade wrote: At first I was surprised I wasn't even further down the list, but it appears I'm in decent company. I saw Vytron pop onto another area of the forums yesterday. I wonder if we'll ever get another AdamH game.
AdamH AdamH AdamH
*waits patiently for AdamH to appear*

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Lol, after scum kills me N1 the whole remaining game will fit on one page.


I will try but with how hectic life is wont hit high content levels.
Um, will you really? Have you already decided Sabrar is getting killed tonight?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:32 am UTC

- I knew it was a meta-list
- I questioned George's placement because you shouldn't have that many datapoints to place him as very townie
- placing yourself on the list triggered the response that I get whenever someone does that on a serious list

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby wam » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:33 am UTC

moody7277 wrote:
wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Lol, after scum kills me N1 the whole remaining game will fit on one page.


I will try but with how hectic life is wont hit high content levels.

Initial feeling is bessie and sabrar town. Mark scummy and everyone else neutral.


If pressed, which side of neutral would you put me and fb?


Fb towny as I think scum would have given up on the setup argument with sabrar.

You I dont have a lean either way.
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - D1 - The Freezer Reserves

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:54 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:D1 begins now and will end sometime on Friday. I'll post a more specific deadline later.
Could we have the deadline?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:41 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Sabrar, why have you not commented on anyone else's setup musings this extensively? Do you think Freezeblade's cult idea is super relevant? Yeah, I know you like to point out flaws but this seems way too much. What is your issue with freezeblade?
freezeblade was the only one who suggested cult. I'm trying to see if he actually thought about how cult would work in such a small game or if he just put it out there to have some 'content' without actually considering it.
Why are you defending him instead of doing something productive?

What I'm doing is productive. Specifically, I am less defending him then questioning you about your choice to pressurebhim this much.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:02 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:What I'm doing is productive. Specifically, I am less defending him then questioning you about your choice to pressurebhim this much.
Ok, I assume you will use this to form a read on me. What about the others? How do you plan to evaluate EGW for example?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby moody7277 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:13 pm UTC

Couple quick takes:

-the Sabrar-bessie interaction is as eternal as it is NAI at this point.
-I'm leaning fb townie, although Cynical View is in favor of Sabrar's second option here.
-right now, votables are Mark and EGW.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:48 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Ok, I assume you will use this to form a read on me. What about the others? How do you plan to evaluate EGW for example?

I think EGW is coming across wanting to move the conversation along. I think that's fine. I don't think it's a good idea but it's townie. Scum wouldn't want to move the convo along.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:41 pm UTC

Request mod-prod on EGW

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:43 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:I think EGW is coming across wanting to move the conversation along. I think that's fine. I don't think it's a good idea but it's townie. Scum wouldn't want to move the convo along.
This is EGW's intro from Stellaris. Without looking up his alignment what do you think of him there?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby wam » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:47 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Couple quick takes:

-the Sabrar-bessie interaction is as eternal as it is NAI at this point..


Whilst I agree it feels natural enough I dknt think they are both scum together.
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:58 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Could we have the deadline?
I went back in time and already did it for you:
BoomFrog wrote:... Deadline set at just under four days from now.. ...
Just over two days left now.

Sabrar wrote:Request mod-prod on EGW
Prodded
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:18 pm UTC

Prod received. Post in a few hours after dinner.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:46 am UTC

Reading now, going to post a reads list when I'm done. Since we have deadline soon, I want everyone to be working on their bottom 4 for lynch.

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby bessie » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:- placing yourself on the list triggered the response that I get whenever someone does that on a serious list
You shouldn’t have said that now you know I’m totally going to do this every time I make a list and encourage everyone else to do so too. :P

wam wrote:Fb towny as I think scum would have given up on the setup argument with sabrar.
So wam, what do you think of Mark’s argument with Sabrar?

Evil George Washington wrote:Since we have deadline soon, I want everyone to be working on their bottom 4 for lynch.
That's a big lynch pool for a 7 player game. :?

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:28 am UTC

bessie wrote:You shouldn’t have said that now you know I’m totally going to do this every time I make a list and encourage everyone else to do so too. :P
You have your fun, I have mine. :)

bessie wrote:That's a big lynch pool for a 7 player game. :?
+1, QFT, etc. Bottom 2 is quite enough.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Day 1

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:08 am UTC

Town [EGW >Moody > Bessie > Mark > FreezeBlade > Sabrar > Wam] Scum

Unvote; Vote: Wam

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:11 am UTC

bessie wrote:Welcome back Mark_Cangila and Evil George Washington! I was so excited to see both your names in sign ups! wam not so much. :P


Thank you, I am glad to be back. I've been busy with a project for Mario Maker 2, but finally got down and read the game.

bessie wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Since we have deadline soon, I want everyone to be working on their bottom 4 for lynch.
That's a big lynch pool for a 7 player game. :?


Good point, I am usually accustomed to being in a 9 player game if it's a small game. Let's go with Top 3 then. My top 3 is [Wam, Sabrar, Freezeblade].

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Re: Fridge Mafia II: Heart of Ice - Confirmation Phase

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:14 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:He doesn't move his vote onto Mark, but says this to make Mark look bad.
When will you learn that this forum does not follow the same 'rules' you're used to? We don't switch votes with every suspicion voiced, read back just about any game here.


I want to see your reads list, and reasoning. You're focusing a lot on setup. Fine, you guys like that. Yet I still need some content to read you and others by. I still stand by the comment that you were making Mark look bad with the first half of that sentence I underlined.


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