Ender's Mafia - Day 5: Flanking maneuvers

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Vieto
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Vieto » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Votals:
Mpolo - 1 - Bignose
Madge - 1 - Moody
Moody - 1 - Wam
lynx - 1 - Dimochka
Just_me - 1 - mpolo

deadline in 25 hours.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby BigNose » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:48 am UTC

Too late to get any more from my indirect strategy, so let's go direct.


Unvote

Vote: Wam


Despite your claims, you are anti-Ender and that makes you dangerous.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:06 am UTC

BigNose wrote:Too late to get any more from my indirect strategy, so let's go direct.


Unvote

Vote: Wam


Despite your claims, you are anti-Ender and that makes you dangerous.


I want you to survive. Not agreeing with your plans for lynches does not make me anti ender! I did actaully stop you being lynched Day1, even though I know it wouldn't have done anything.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:04 am UTC

because nobody cares for the inconsistency on dimochka I pointed out in the last post:

vote: dimochka

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:12 am UTC

just_me wrote:because nobody cares for the inconsistency on dimochka I pointed out in the last post:

vote: dimochka


Had somehow overlooked that post.

It's the same argument as dimochka's against lynx. But yours seems more convincing, worst case scenario Dimochka's an indie.

Unvote

vote Dimockha


Current Votals

Votals:
wam - 1 - Bignose
Madge - 1 - Moody
lynx - 1 - Dimochka
Just_me - 1 - mpolo
Dimochka - 3 - Just_me (I assume you still have your double vote), wam
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:20 am UTC

Dimochka said he didn't know about the buggers or Achilles (but apparently knew about the mafia). I don't really see the second statement as contradictory, but rather a bit weird. As Achilles ended up, he seems to have been more or less compatible with town, except for the "IF" portion of town. In that sense, having Achilles in the win condition isn't 100% necessary for someone to be town.

As such, I don't object to the Dimochka lynch, but it doesn't convince me a whole lot more than I was convinced of just_me. So I'll stay here for now.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:17 pm UTC

Honestly I think dimochka's point about lynx is true too.
The main reason for voting dim instead of lynx is that I find it quite outragious to make a point about lynx that applies as well to himself.
The sheer crazyness deserves a lynch. Plus I have some hope of dimochka defending himself in an informative way (less so of lynx and if lynx is scum I have some hope that because he wasn't there he didn't submit any nightactions).

Its not the question whether its necessary to have achilles in the wincon to be town.
I think he was lying about his wincon and didn't realize that achilles was part of the general wincon for town.

embedding the second sentence there presupposes that it is true. That means that Dimochka believes that achilles is part of the general wincon. On the other hand he stated himself that he didn't know about achilles. So Dimochka does not have the "general wincon." This looks a lot like he is not with us.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:50 pm UTC

Im on a bus back from boston with awful service, i will respond in a couple of hours when im back in ny
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

Ah. You didn't quote enough to make your point. We'll see what dimochka has to say shortly, then I'll decide, but that statement doesn't look good.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:38 pm UTC

ok trying to get it in there very quickly, especially as deadline is coming up shortly.

A few of you are right, I am an indie. I was allied with Achilles and my wincon was to be the same as his wincon, but it was not known to me, nor did I actually know who Achilles is (and the worst part is - my team nightchat was with Achilles, yet I had no idea it was him - nice job Vieto). I'm assuming this is because I did some stuff with him in India? I'm not that far in the books but this is what I saw on Wiki. This is why I said all I know about is mafia, because I was actually not aware of any other groups. I assumed there was a mafia but I did not want to make an assumption about anything else.

After Achilles died, I was told that I have become a survivor. I still have no clue what the town wincon is, which was the reason for my question at the beginning of the day about the Achilles wincon. Had I know what it is, I wouldn't have bothered asking. That does not take away from the fact that lynx seemed to ignore it, and I very much doubt Achilles has two supporters. I doubt Vieto would put the exact same role type into the game twice.

Let me make it very clear. Like I said to mpolo earlier, I don't have any killing powers. I have a redirect power (I'm "wily" or something) that allows for me to redirect anything that targets me to someone else and in turn anything that targets that person targets me instead.

Last night I redirected anything targeting me onto moody. I have no idea whether it did anything. It was a random choice of player who was not part of my team or in danger of modkill.

Anyways, if you have any other questions, ask. I understand that I'm a better lynch than town and therefore I preferred to keep quiet, but I'm pretty sure what I picked up about lynx is right. I don't plan for my vote to change.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

so what were you told at the beginning what your wincon was?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:50 pm UTC

literally that my wincon is the same as that of Achilles. I even sent a message to vieto confirming my wincon (not that I have any way to prove that).
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:56 pm UTC

Unvote

Vote Lynx


Mainly out of sympathy as that's the exact wincon I had in Game of Thrones and It was a right pain in the ass!!

I also believe him as it seems believing and too convulted to be a false claim.

We can also just lynch him later. I would also suggest if there is a town vig they shoot him (although i guess we would have seen another kill N1).

Lynx made a similar mistake and has been lurking (RL issues I know).

thoughts?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:17 am UTC

unvote

I think that lynx has the samr wincon as KrO2. Which makes him a bad target if we want to hit the buggers or mafia.
If we don't find any better reads I'd be more willing to lynch him over dimochka now (the claim looks good to me on first reading).

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 1 - The favourite.

Postby BigNose » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:37 am UTC

wam wrote:. . .
Ask bignose if he can be lynched, mpolo said the same thing to me about him being unlynchable.
. . .
So how was this sent to you, directly or via Mpolo?
I know that you weren't told directly via a spoiler, so that must mean that you were told by Mpolo.

Now why would a claimed supporter, who wants to keep Ender alive, then tell everyone that I have this semi-hidden safety-net?

wam wrote:I want you to survive. Not agreeing with your plans for lynches does not make me anti ender! I did actaully stop you being lynched Day1, even though I know it wouldn't have done anything.
There is a complete contradictory statement. If you knew it wouldn't do anything, why protect me?

mpolo wrote:Are you reading the Votals backwards? You're voting for me, no one is voting for you.
No. I was using you as a foil to draw wam out.

Stuff the copping of wam, please lynch him.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:25 am UTC

I don't see the case against wam that BN is making.

What I see though is the following case to be made:
Conjecture: On every team there is one person that has a wincon like KrO2.
Thus wam or tormod must have that wincon.
Thus one would lie to save the other. That means we probably shouldn't trust anything they said about each other.
Both claimed town, which would be contradictory to the conjecture.
Now we can decide whether we think the conjecture is true or whether they are both trustable.

Tormod told me wam had some antibugger mechanism. I think Tormod has the same wincon as KrO2 and protects wam because of that. (maybe wam also told tormod that its like that and tormod readily believed it because it was in his favour to not lynch his teammate).
So If we believe the conjecture I think I have established a reason to lynch wam.
But I am not quite sure if the conjecture actually holds.

@moody
In general I don't think though that vieto wouldn't have randomized the distribution of mafia/buggers among the teams. So the distribution argument is now a probabilistic argument only. Additionally one prediction you made with that theory came out wrong. Dimochka was in fact antitown.
Moreover the switching team alignments make the whole thing kind of moot.
I agree with wam's analysis to some extent (even if I see it as possible that he is scum.)

At the moment I am split between moody and wam.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:26 am UTC

EBWOP:
note that mpolo and madge have a lynch-veto!

It might be good for any of the two of you who is town to use it now so the other (maybe antitown) can't use it.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:59 am UTC

My relationship with wam is very complicated. My original PM had me on a team with wam with the goal of protecting Ender (so that I shared more information than I would have otherwise), but through conversation, it became clear that he was on a different team, but seemingly town-aligned. I then confirmed with the mod that he was in fact not on my team due to a failure in the communication of the PMs. (I received a new team member in this way shortly before nightfall, which has affected how much I've been willing to share with wam since then.)

I have been assuming that I would have too much information if a town was swapped for a scum, so have been assuming that wam is town. He certainly responded to questions in a townie way.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:16 pm UTC

BigNose wrote:so how was this sent to you, directly or via Mpolo?


WEll Mpolo told me but so did you in a spoiler half way down page 3.

BigNose wrote:There is a complete contradictory statement. If you knew it wouldn't do anything, why protect me?


Because I have multiple win con's only one of which is making sure you suvive. The others would be harmed by having a lynch that didn't happen as we would have a day 1 again.

BigNose wrote:No. I was using you as a foil to draw wam out.


Why you think I am linked to mpolo, who I think is town?

As it's pretty obvious and it becomes relevant in a sec. I am a deculter, I can turn buggers back into their original win con. Hence how I know they are a cult.

Now bignose knows that so my theory is as follows

Bignose was recruited last night. I will target him tongiht.

The agression and trying to push the lynch on to me is due to him knowing that I am going to be a pain for cult and that based on the fact there was only 1 kill last night cult can't kill they want to get rid of me.

Now most of his pushing the lynch and the lying have come after it looked like lynx was going to be lynched so I reckon hes our best shot at a cult recruiter therfore my vote is staying where it is.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:42 pm UTC

isn't deadline technically a day ago or something?
And if so, can we have a 24-hour extension with a specific deadline?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby lynx » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

A 24-hour extension would be nice. I'm getting up to speed once again. :(

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:41 pm UTC

@mpolo
so your new teammate is conf town if you are town?
who is it?

Given there is a role which can detect if someone is a bugger, if a person was bugged the same night this detection would have acted, would that person come up as a bugger to the detection or not?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:01 pm UTC

@ Just_me that's an interesting question and If it comes up that it would be detected that blows my whole theory out the water.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:06 pm UTC

Deadline was 14 hours ago.

My suggestion is that we play to a 24 hour extension and then call it, so in 10 hours or so.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Vieto » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:22 pm UTC

Fearing for her life, Crazy Tom rushed to the colonel and asked to be transfered to earth, which he accepted. Of course, the rest of the students were still anxious for no discernable reason according to the colonel, and so he set back and relaxed until one of the students handed him proof that Virlomi was involved in a conspiracy to kill off other students. He calmly decided to send her home too, for her safety.

Final Votals:
wam - 1 - Bignose
Madge - 1 - Moody
lynx - 2 - Dimochka, Wam
Just_me - 1 - mpolo
Dimochka - 2 - Just_me

Random.org says that Dimochka is lynched, and due to inactivity, Stubbs has been modkilled.

Stubbs has been modkilled, and was Crazy Tom, leader of the Buggers. Each night, he had a recruit, and their win condition was the death of Achilles, the mafia, and the IF. The buggers could read all in-thread spoilers.
Dimochka has been lynched. He was Virlomi, and was a member of the mafia. His win condition was the death of the IF, cult, and Achilles, and each night, he had the power to redirect one player's actions towards another player.

Night 2 has begun, 8 players remain, deadline is Friday, 8pm.


edit: it should be noted that, despite me not actually posting this on deadline, any votes/unvotes made after deadline were not counted.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Night 2: The plot doctor device

Postby dimochka » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:37 pm UTC

But... but... I don't wanna go home :(
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Night 2: The plot doctor device

Postby Vieto » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:51 am UTC

Also, before I forget again, the team match-ups are:

Salamander vs. Dragon
Pheonix vs. Rabbit

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Night 2: The plot doctor device

Postby Vieto » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:48 pm UTC

Awaiting orders from most teams. I'll give them 8 more hours to submit their plans.


sorry for the delay, will post night results when I get a chance today.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Night 2: The plot doctor device

Postby Vieto » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:09 am UTC

Graff woke up that morning tied up in a broom closed, mouth gagged and hands tied. He tried to move, but to no avail. From outside, he heard voices.
"Ah, Colonel, you are awake."
"mmmmmhh!"
"Hehe, don't try anything. Achilles may be gone, but we have bigger plans ourselves. But first, a compromise. We will let you live, if you tell us where the dr. device is."
A hand reached in the closed and briefly unbound him. "Help!" Graff tried to call, before he was quickly regagged.
"Please do consider, colonel. We aren't in too much of a rush right now, but do realised that from this point on, when someone is being 'iced', they will only reach the surface at the rate of orbital decay; a long time up here."
And they walked off.

***

Their threat was not idle, of course. Outside the large window of the main hall hung poor Vlad by his neck, floating outside the station but dragged in circles. To make things crueller, an oxygen IV had been injected into him, along with barely enough of a pressure suit to keep him concious up until the moment he died.

The school knew they needed to find these guys.



Moody and Just_me have swapped teams.

Mpolo is dead. He was Vlad, alignment = IF, and had a roleblock.

Team Pheonix ambushed team rabbit's direct assault with their cautious assault, so team Pheonix has 1 vote-veto controlled by Tormod.

Team Dragon and Salamander randomly engaged each other. Dragon sloppily excecutes a direct attack at the last second, beating Salamander's shoddy flanking maneuver, thereby gaining Bignose a veto.

It is Day 3. 7 students live, 5 votes to hammer, and the deadline is next monday @ 8pm EST.


Current teams:
Team Salamander:
Rose the Nose = Madge

Team Rabbit
Leader: Carn Carby = Lynx
Virlomi = Dimochka

Team Pheonix
Leader: Petra = Tormod
Han Tzu = Wam
Dink = Just_me

Team Dragon
Leader: Ender = De Big Nose BigNose :evil:
bean = Moody7277
Last edited by Vieto on Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:10 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:47 am UTC

Firstly I'm feeling pretty lonely being the only salamander left.

Secondly, I just got a scum result on tormod last night. I got a town result on BigNose N1.

Vote: tormod

Thirdly, I'm going to be working in a lab today and this week so won't have as much time on my computer, but that shouldn't affect my participation too much.

Fourthly,

The team list still shows dimochka alive in team rabbit, you might want to fix that.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Vieto » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:01 am UTC

fixed

votals:
tormod - 1 - Madge

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby lynx » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:31 am UTC

I'm with you, Madge! It's not quite as gutting for me though, I'd imagine.

Vote: Tormod
I'm interested to see where this leads. Will read through both of their posts later.

I wonder about dimochka. Is it possible that we have a recruiting mafia? Then again, mafia claiming survivor is the oldest trick in the book. I would have tended to believe him if I'd managed to post yesterday as it's exactly what happened to me in one of Vieto's games ages ago where eculc was cult leader and got lynched D1, followed swiftly by my being killed N1 for defending him. Then again, dimochka is a pretty clever cat and it wouldn't be the first time he's taken me for a ride (giggity).

But I digress. Here's what I would have posted if I weren't cruelly ninja'd by the mod yesterday:
Spoiler:
wam is probably town. Not sure why he's so intent on lynching me though. mpolo is also townie.
dimochka is probably telling the truth and was roband's accomplice. I'll read back through their night-chat to see how that checks out.

Vote: just_me
I'll look through his posts individually but this close to deadline he's my top pick for scum. He seems to be agreeing with people far too much (and defense).

I'll have a quick look through our team chat for clues about the mafia later but I doubt dimochka would have given much away. And I'll have another read of just_me's content to refresh my memory.

wam, it's all a bit hazy for me after a big weekend for me, remind me about your thing with BigNose? I seem to remember you crusading against him then changing your mind, but CBA to go through the whole thread to find that one post after a lovely evening on the coach!

So is just_me now in Dragon?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby moody7277 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:49 am UTC

Time for the big reveal. I am the last surviving member of the IF, and I have an investigation. Night 1, I investigated Roband cause he was being a bit odd, and found he was Achilles. Last night I investigated Madge, and he turned up mafia.


Vote: Madge
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Vieto » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:16 am UTC

votals:
tormod - 2 - Madge, Lynx
Madge - 1 - Moody

lynx wrote:So is just_me now in Dragon?

Just_me is presently on team Pheonix.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby lynx » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:36 am UTC

Unvote

What on earth is going on?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:16 am UTC

Yep,

I'll follow my team-mate (if he still is)


Vote: Madge
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:05 pm UTC

mh I don't know.
I don't trust moody a lot. His roband claim is uncheckable.
Additionally the first day votes moody also protected tormod and there was this little buzzing episode with moody and tormod about nightchat.
What counts for him is that he has been eyeing madge yesterday already, which would warant the investigation.

For madge I got at least:
After some discussion with mpolo during the night phase, I've decided I feel better about BigNose, so you needn't expect any more votes from me.

That corroborates the investigation on BN.
Additionally she posted a will after N1, hopefully containing that BN is town. If BN can read the spoilers he should check.

There is still the issue with IF mpolo saying that wam is not on his team. Honestly I can't decide who is the most scummy looking at the moment by the sheer amount of scum that seems to be around. (different kinds of scum it seems though)

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:22 pm UTC

just_me wrote:mh I don't know. . . .

How much of this it to do with you not being on my team with Moody any more?

I can soon change that!
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:46 pm UTC

nothing whatsoever.
I don't care about the teamalliances.
I also don't really understand why you are so rigged up on that.
the moody vote for leaving the team on d2. Now this. Plus (the reasons for) the wam call was also a bit fishy.
Its a bit weird I think.
Makes me wonder how much I should extend my trust in you to your judgements.

I want more info because honestly I don't get whats going on a lot.
There is two scum on seven people plus I have a double vote(probably) so why would madge come out with this claim now.
Only good explanation I've got is that the claimers are protecting sb else.
But basically I want to know what the two claimers have to say.

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wam
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:29 pm UTC

Ok I'm back and have just about caught up.

So two result claims, tradition says we lynch one. I need to re-read to work it out.

But madge's claim doesn't seem to fit with any motive but moodys only motivaiton for making up a claim would be save tormod for some reason.

Hmm more thoughts and a re-read.
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