Ender's Mafia - Day 5: Flanking maneuvers

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wam
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:23 pm UTC

EBWOP

BIgnose from my perspective that looks like you have dialled the paranoia up to 11....

Anyone else get a vibe that I was talking about big nose in that post?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:29 pm UTC

I might've just realized something.

Can everyone please tell me whether Achilles is in their wincon? That's all I want to know. Please do not pile votes on anyone till we get a sizable number of answers.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:33 pm UTC

@ Dimochka

Yes
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

@dimochka

Spoiler:
Can I ask what you are going for here?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:44 pm UTC

@wam
Spoiler:
I think I figured out who is the original bugger
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:46 pm UTC

@dimochka

Spoiler:
Interesting! I hope your right.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Vieto » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

wam wrote:Also I don't believe I got an answer to the question about roband and diemo's win con

Achille's win condition is that the Buggers, Mafia, and IF are dead.
Diemo's win condition is synonymous to the IF's win condition.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:32 pm UTC

@vieto
Spoiler:
I think you just ruined my plan!
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Vieto » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:58 pm UTC

@Dim
Spoiler:
If I did, it was not intentional. :P
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

I think I've already answered how I felt about Achilles (I needed to take him down). Thank you, whoever did that for me.

Tormod's theory about how the cult might work is certainly possible, but it doesn't match up to my general feeling that BigNose can't have started as the cult leader. (Because otherwise, I'd have contradictory win conditions and no way to fulfill them.) For the record, I think he neither started as cult nor is cult right now.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:19 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Can everyone please tell me whether Achilles is in their wincon? That's all I want to know.


Achilles is in my wincon; I have to ensure he's dead to win.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Tormod » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:30 am UTC

mpolo wrote:I think I've already answered how I felt about Achilles (I needed to take him down). Thank you, whoever did that for me.

Tormod's theory about how the cult might work is certainly possible, but it doesn't match up to my general feeling that BigNose can't have started as the cult leader. (Because otherwise, I'd have contradictory win conditions and no way to fulfill them.) For the record, I think he neither started as cult nor is cult right now.


I'm not quite sure how you extrapolated from my theory about the queen, to that queen beeing Ender? I could have made some sense lore-vise, but the result on him was that he isn't a bugger, and I posted that before my cult-rant :)

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:05 am UTC

Somebody else thought that the queen was Ender, apparently. I mixed the various book theories, or I got that from your investigation. In any case, BigNose seems to be completely safe for at least today.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:04 am UTC

THe only person to make that link was ender himself....

Also there seem to be a lot of lurkers! Hurry up and post!
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby lynx » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:32 am UTC

Sorry for my absence. I had lots of time during sign-ups but things are moving pretty quickly now with the start of term, as I've over-subscribed myself to societies and extra work. I'll have to stick to one game at a time for a while if I have time to play at all.

I've pretty much caught up but have an oral exam this afternoon so will address the many things requiring my attention when I get back.

Are the buggers likely to be a cult WRT flavour?

@dimochka
Spoiler:
Bloody roband and his indie shenanigans. I pretty much trust you now though.
We can discuss our strategy for keeping each other alive when people are less likely to be listening in.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby BigNose » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:29 am UTC

@Lynx
No.
Book spoiler alert.
Spoiler:
The Queen provided additional 'game content' for Ender during schooling.
During that same schooling, Ender developed his teams, which were separated and returned together for the final conflict - wiping out the buggers.
A whole book missed out buggers (Speaking for the Dead), but is used as a basis for the 3rd book.
But that extended gaming came back in the 3rd book (Xenocide), as a mechanism to direct Ender to Speak for the Dead, the dead being the Buggers/Queen and in doing so, found a Queen egg and provided life back to the Buggers.


Therefore there is no Cult mechanism as per the books, that can be translated back into this game.
Hence, I am suspicious of any Cult mention.
Yes, you may have it as a Win condition, but that doesn't mean that the win condition isn't already met, because it doesn't exist.

WinCon: Remove all buggers from the game - No buggers in the game - WinCon met - Hurray!
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby moody7277 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:59 pm UTC

Okay, so this is my impression of what we know of the buggers as cult as of now:

1. They exist.
2. Their numbers are at n+1.
3. n is likely 1, maybe 2 if Vieto wanted to be nasty.

So the breakdown in numbers of the 10 left is (BCS) 5 town/3 mafia/2 cult or (WCS) 4 town/3 mafia/3 cult, with a smallish chance of cult recruiting mafia. You remember the mafia, right? The guys who most probably killed Achilles? I understand that tactics say get cult first, just wanted it out there that my wincon includes both.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:14 pm UTC

I am also worried about buggers and mafia. I have no direct evidence that they are a cult, except that we have a claim of cult-cop-doctor active. Also, information that I have received through spoilers indicates that they are this.

BigNose is correct that they might not exist. I even wouldn't put it past Vieto to have anti-cult factions/powers without having a cult.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. We have to lynch scum, same as always, whether that scum be buggers or mafia. Unless somebody has a cop result to report, we need to get everyone talking to find said scum.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:15 pm UTC

(Referring to PM spoiler thingies, of course. I have had a lot of them to read. :P )
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Vieto » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:33 pm UTC

As StubbsKVM has not posted in this game... at all, he will be modkilled by the end of Day 2, unless he posts some content.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:02 pm UTC

Having done a brief re-read the only person I have suspicouns of is ender who I cant lycnh as it would break my win con.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby moody7277 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:37 pm UTC

This vote is because they were the other person to vote for Ender.

Vote: Madge

Madge wrote:Achilles is in my wincon; I have to ensure he's dead to win


Not inconsistent with being mafia or cult.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:03 pm UTC

From Salamander Night Chat, Madge has said that she doesn't have to protect Ender, but has not indicated any details of her motivation. She has never talked about mafia or cult at all, and her power seems to be related to the Battle Room in some way, though she sees a Salamander win as only a "bonus win". (I don't seem to have that possibility — actually it would be pretty impossible because of the "protect Ender" clause.) In general, I'd say that Madge has been fairly tight with her information.

I did let her submit the team strategy last night. I figured having 50% control of a lynch veto was worth having. Since either of us can use this thing, though, that means that Madge is not going to be easy to lynch, if we all decide we don't trust her.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

I don't have a wincon in any way associated with Ender. And I'm going to wait till end of today for those responses and tomorrow morning explain why I wanted them and hopefully help us make certain decisions on the lynch for the day. Please don't let that hinder any discussion, it's just that every response I get gives me a bit more confidence in my opinion. Sidenote - assuming BigNose is not anti-town, which is likely though questionable (I'm not assuming anything in this game), I did not see him respond to me, but I don't think I need his response for this.

@tormod
Spoiler:
What's your opinion of lynx? I'll ask this publically tomorrow but figured I'd ask you first. I have reason to believe that he's anti-town, though I'm not sure if it's mafia or cult.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Tormod » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:08 pm UTC

@dimochka
Spoiler:
With his utter lack of content d2 it's kinda hard to get a good read, I have a guess as to what his wincon *could* be, or it could be something worse. I might post what I think, as that should spark some discussions at least :P


mpolo wrote:I did let her submit the team strategy last night. I figured having 50% control of a lynch veto was worth having. Since either of us can use this thing, though, that means that Madge is not going to be easy to lynch, if we all decide we don't trust her.

Haha, I think it's somewhat arrogant to presume you will win a nightfight with a preselected strategy and the quote "our door is open" xD I think against any other team you would have lost, it was only because I didn't wanna look worse than I aparently already did (although the main flamer of me turned out to be achilles..) that I decided to throw the fight against you :D I might have misinterpreted what you ment though...

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Madge » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:42 pm UTC

OK, first of all - the reason I didn't give mpolo much information is because I don't trust him (just like I don't trust anyone, and neither should you).

@mpolo
mpolo wrote:From Salamander Night Chat, Madge has said that she doesn't have to protect Ender, but has not indicated any details of her motivation.


That is a lie and you know it. In spoilers yesterday I told you my full win condition (eliminate buggers, mafia, achilles + protect someone) with the name of the person I'm to protect removed to protect myself and them. You never even asked for the name of the person I'm to protect, so I don't see how that's being tight.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby BigNose » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:39 am UTC

Madge,

I think that is enough to state that it is either you or Mpolo.
Without wanting to reveal anything . .

Unvote

Vote:Mpolo


And I hope that you all share my view.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:31 am UTC

How can we if you haven't explained anything? Also blindly following a lynch no matter how trusted the townie never gives us any info...

I can see mpolos suspicions of madge but I can see the same answers being given by a paranoid townie. Although if she did say what she claimed to mpolo then either he's exaggerating or one is lying.

I'm not being very helpful here am I. Right re-read time (again!)
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:18 am UTC

Madge wrote:OK, first of all - the reason I didn't give mpolo much information is because I don't trust him (just like I don't trust anyone, and neither should you).

@mpolo
mpolo wrote:From Salamander Night Chat, Madge has said that she doesn't have to protect Ender, but has not indicated any details of her motivation.


That is a lie and you know it. In spoilers yesterday I told you my full win condition (eliminate buggers, mafia, achilles + protect someone) with the name of the person I'm to protect removed to protect myself and them. You never even asked for the name of the person I'm to protect, so I don't see how that's being tight.


I went through the whole thread looking for your claim yesterday, assuming that everything had run together in my mind, and didn't find this spoiler.

Of course now, doing the same exact thing I did yesterday, I immediately found it (on page 2, no less). So Madge has been less closed than I thought she had been. Hence, I confirm that Madge claimed to me the wincon Achilles, mafia and buggers + protect a non-Ender individual.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:55 am UTC

Ok So reads below

Madge
Was initially suspcious due to prevaricating about win con but went back and re-read D1 and she claimed the same wincon to me as mpolo, rest of D1 content looked good. D2 been too defensive. Neutral

mpolo
I still trust him from D1 seemed to be open and honest, attack on madge looked weak but hes backed down. So neutral

Lynx
Lurking, scummy purely for that didn't really get any vibes either way. Lurking explained by being very busy IRL. Netural

Dimochka
Nothing really sticks out was a bit withdrawn D1 and I don't think I have seen him vote yet. More opinions required, slightly scummy.

Tormod
Newbie and thats how he comes across although I'm reading him as newbie town slightly townie

Wam me

BigNose ender so is off the table despite the fact that I think hes been the scummiest

Moody7277 an interesting one, as I said in my previous post slightly scummy but with all the voting schennanigans at the end of D1 I think his lynch would teach us the most. Slightly scummy

StubbsKVM Going to be modkilled

Just_me Expalnation of D1 was reasonable, has had reasonable content through the game slightly townie

So based on the above

Vote Moody

Bignose if you want me to get on board with your lynches your going to have to share more to convince me.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby Vieto » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:33 am UTC

Votals:
Mpolo - 1 - Bignose
Madge - 1 - Moody
Moody - 1 - Wam


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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby BigNose » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:42 am UTC

So what you are saying is that you don't support me.
In other words, your supposed "I must save Ender" is bullshit.

Fair enough.
As long as we all know.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby dimochka » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:30 pm UTC

Ok I don't have time for a long drawn out post and I won't be here most of the weekend.

When is deadline?

Vote lynx

I know that he's the last person on my team and by doing that I'm effectively making sure that my team doesn't win the game (unless someone wants to take me on their team! please??)

Anyways, reason for the vote: In our night-chat, Roband claimed his wincon to be getting rid of buggers/mafia, and having his faction outnumber any other. He never mentioned achilles. Obviously now we know why. Thing is, lynx came back saying his wincon is identical to roband's. I think he was lying about his wincon and didn't realize that achilles was part of the general wincon for town.
This is not much but it's more than we have so far, and coupled with a very low amount of content, I'm more comfortable with this lynch than any others. I don't know which anti-town faction he is but I'm fairly sure he's one of them.

lynx - feel free to retort / explain yourself, but I don't know how much it's going to do to change my mind.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby moody7277 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:20 pm UTC

Okay, crazy hypothesis time. I'm going to assume that lynx being a team leader has the same win condition as KrO2: have some of his team alive at the end. This also includes my distributed mafia paradigm.


Mafia:
Madge, wam, and either Stubbs or just_me

dimochka I figure is clear because he and lynx already had the SK on their team

Cult:
just_me or Stubbs

If the later, we may not have to worry about the cult having recruited since Stubbs has been lurking the whole game.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:24 pm UTC

BigNose wrote:So what you are saying is that you don't support me.
In other words, your supposed "I must save Ender" is bullshit.

Fair enough.
As long as we all know.


Are you reading the Votals backwards? You're voting for me, no one is voting for you.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

The crazy hypothesis is really tempting. However, my communication with wam has me mostly trusting him at the moment.

People I more or less trust because of communications: (more or less descending order)
BigNose
Moody
wam
Madge

Neutral because of the "team leader" hypothesis:
lynx
Tormod

Don't have any specific trust information:
dimochka
Stubbs
just_me

This ignores the possibility of a recruit last night. Stubbs is in very deep lurk, so I guess I'll put a tentative vote on just_me.

Vote: just_me
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby just_me » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:45 am UTC

Dimochka
1.
I wasn't told of buggers or Achilles

2.
didn't realize that achilles was part of the general wincon for town


any explanation?

I also consider lynching lynx because as before I think he might be flying by as cult/scum.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby wam » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:12 pm UTC

BigNose wrote:So what you are saying is that you don't support me.
In other words, your supposed "I must save Ender" is bullshit.

Fair enough.
As long as we all know.


Was this aimed at me or mpolo?

Dimochka's point about lynx does make me suspicious but I want to hear his response.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby BigNose » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:41 pm UTC

YOU

@Wam
Spoiler:
I am trying to draw out any Mpolo supporters who might start voting on you.

@Mpolo
Spoiler:
Hmmmm. My vote on you is trying to draw out anyone else anti-me. The fact that Wam is reluctant, adds to current ammunition, but I still haven't conclusive enough evidence.
I need to find my Cop supporter.

@All
If you are a Cop and a Ender supporter, please cop Wam tonite.
We can work out a strategy to validate you 'closed' response.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - Day 2 - Achilles is Down

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

@BigNose

Spoiler:
You do have a cop supporter. That's why Achilles was roleblocked (by me), apparently enabling him to be killed by somebody else (based on flavor). I'm not going to claim for him, though.
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