Ender's Mafia - Day 5: Flanking maneuvers

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wam
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

Well dimochka suckered me. I bought that claim hook line and sinker.

@Moody

Spoiler:
What I don't get is that you are in Enders Jeesh and the IF?


Vote Moody

As your claim falls down

you claim that you investigate Roband and got that he was achillies (a role name) and that madge (who is female by the way) is mafia (an alignment), in my experience you only get one.

So for some reason you are trying to protect tormod.

Also we can afford a mislynch, 7 left alive, worst case prob 2 mafia. So a mislynch takes us to 3-2 MYLO with a confirmed mafia (if moody turns up town).

OR we lynch madge and if she comes up town we have two linked guaranteed scum. HMM

Well I will await an answer to my point...

I do have a theory on the moody tormod link but I am going to wait for them to both post.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby moody7277 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:50 pm UTC

Regarding the alleged link between me and Tormod. The spoiler between us D1 was just that, despite the in book connection between our role names, we didn't have any in game connection. The voting late in D1 was me wanting to protect Ender from those voting for him, including roband. It was heavily inferred, from Tormod's will and some info mpolo got from a spoiled message, they have an anti-cult/doctor role. That was why I jumped on the thread that just_me handed me in voting for KrO2. Bottom line, we aren't connected.

Regarding my investigations and a rough timeline of the IF. I found roband to be behaving a bit odd late D1 with his "don't trust your teammates" spiel. That was most of why I decided to investigate him; mpolo used his roleblock on roband once I reported in. Turns out that the mafia also thought he was behaving oddly, and so killed him (speculative). Roband turning up dead was a part of why I didn't even do IIWAC D2. My night 2 investigation was inertia from my "crazy hypothesis", even though it did have a hole in it from dimochka flipping mafia, and so I chose Madge. I was perfectly resigned to her coming up town, but she didn't. I can't say why Achilles came up with the role name, but Madge came up as generic mafia; it could be that we knew that Achilles was synonymous with SK. mpolo went to roleblock her last night, but either he was too late, or the third mafioso put in the kill.

In conclusion, if we stared with three mafia, then most likely I have played out the investigations I can make. dimochka is dead mafia, Madge I already found, and I suspect the third is a godfather who would turn up town. I would prefer not to be lynched as I want to lynch the outed mafia, but I can understand you wanting surety.

@ wam
Spoiler:
Stubby was also in the Jeesh, and he turned out to be the cult leader. Maybe being Bean I'm just special. :P
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:51 pm UTC

So there must be a third mafia. (given moody isn't lying)
I know its somewhat common to lynch one of the claimers, but maybe we should hunt for the third scum.
Which basically leaves lynx or wam.
Either madge or moody can carry out another investigation and if they are killed we got the one to lynch the next day.

But still I want to hear back from madge.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:43 pm UTC

Just woke up, want to state that my spoiler d1 does not contain "bignose is town" - I wanted to ensure I lived for as long as possible, and I was scared that there were more spoiler-reading roles than just BigNose [turns out I was right when the buggers flipped, so now who looks crazy!]. So I put in my spoiler "I don't have an investigative role" - I hoped that you'd get the obvious meaning from my first sentence of my first post. I also think BigNose's spoiler reading is limited in some way so don't want him to waste a go of getting info on a spoiler that's going to be unhelpful. (or he can use it to confirm me if he wants)

moody7277 wrote: mpolo went to roleblock her last night, but either he was too late, or the third mafioso put in the kill.


These other possibilities come through:
1) I am mafia and submitted the kill and mpolo submitted his roleblock too late or didn't submit his roleblock
2) I am mafia and got roleblocked, but another mafioso submitted the kill
3) mpolo did not intend to roleblock me, so didn't (i.e. lied to moody) [or he intended to roleblock me and changed his mind later on]
4) mpolo was himself roleblocked
5) you are lying and he said no such thing
6) something else I didn't think of

Also, I'm assuming mpolo told you he was going to roleblock me in spoilers, or did you guys have day/nightchat? If you could point out the spoiler and maybe BigNose could check that one, too? That said it would only allow us to prove or disprove 5), but if we prove 5) then we will have an easy lynch.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:55 pm UTC

if mpolo used his roleblock would it have been applied the night he dies

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby lynx » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:28 am UTC

I reckon mafia are moody and just_me. Madge, exactly what result did you get on Tormod?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:56 am UTC

It said that tormod was a member of the mafia (yes, it used the term 'mafia' specifically).
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Vieto » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:38 am UTC

votals:
tormod - 1 - Madge
Madge - 2 - Moody, Bignose
Moody - 1 - Wam



just_me wrote:if mpolo used his roleblock would it have been applied the night he dies

Correct

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:11 am UTC

Madge wrote:Secondly, I just got a scum result on tormod last night. I got a town result on BigNose N1.
Notice, it doesn't say mafia, but scum!

moody7277 wrote:Time for the big reveal. I am the last surviving member of the IF, and I have an investigation. Night 1, I investigated Roband cause he was being a bit odd, and found he was Achilles. Last night I investigated Madge, and he turned up mafia.
Note here that Moody refers to mafia, not scum.

Madge wrote:Just woke up, want to state that my spoiler d1 does not contain "bignose is town"
Why the sudden change of heart? Oh ofcourse, your 'inspiration' that we have spoiler readers.

Madge wrote:I also think BigNose's spoiler reading is limited in some way
Think? You KNOW. I told you and just about everyone else. You seem to be trying to justify yourself.

Madge wrote:It said that tormod was a member of the mafia (yes, it used the term 'mafia' specifically).
So why didn't you use the term mafia originally? It is more typical to re-use the terminology than invent it, therefore I think you invented it first time and only as Moody used the term mafia, that you now adjust your term to suit.



lynx wrote:wam, it's all a bit hazy for me after a big weekend for me, remind me about your thing with BigNose?
It's called evidence. Unfortunately what I was hoping to reveal failed to materialise. Note, not that it isn't true, but just not true enough for me to explain all, as that would expose people unnecessarily.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Tormod » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:00 am UTC

Vote Madge

I am not mafia, thus you are lying.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:32 am UTC

How did madge get an investigation done if mpolo roleblocked her?
Is there anyone who roleblocked mpolo?

What will happen if one team is empty, will the fights stop or will one team get the lynch-veto by default?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:39 am UTC

Ok my theroy

Tormod has claimed an identical win con to KrO2, therefore I think that moody also has a wincon linked to teams and wants to save him as hes his team leader.

Now he claimed it in spoilers to me before KRO2 died therefore I was more inclined to believe it.

But Moody are you claiming that your result comes through before the start of the day? As that is hard to believe.

Unfortunatly the one who can back up your claim is dead.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:11 am UTC

@BigNose -
I have been suspicious of spoiler readers existing since d1. I even suspected you of spoiler reading before you admitted you could. Which is why my spoiler had me denying my investigative role rather than doing an IIWC. (luckily for me since nobody else seemed to bother with it?).

I used "scum" at the start of the day because I consider it interchangeable with "mafia", and then clarified that I got "mafia" in my PM when asked to give specific wording.


just_me wrote:How did madge get an investigation done if mpolo roleblocked her?
Is there anyone who roleblocked mpolo?


Mafia has a roleblocker, or mpolo lied about his intentions. (or less likely, there's another redirector out there)

Who has been roleblocked this game? If we can confirm two roleblocks happening in one night then that will give us some more info to work with.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:11 am UTC

I am amazed how you made that post being about moody.
You essentially claim that madge's result on tormod is wrong.
Thus obviously madge must be lying.

Additionally moody is back on team dragon. (His team swapping seems to show that he doesn't have team related wincons.)

I think our scumteam is wam/madge.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:57 am UTC

just_me wrote:I am amazed how you made that post being about moody.
You essentially claim that madge's result on tormod is wrong.
Thus obviously madge must be lying.

Additionally moody is back on team dragon. (His team swapping seems to show that he doesn't have team related wincons.)

I think our scumteam is wam/madge.


I'm just saying what tormod said to me which I did believe and now I'm not sure of as its as a safe ish claim. Initially I thought that madge may have had a non definate result on tormod, e.g. indy or scum etc. But since she has changed her story and now claims it said mafia directly I guess either her or tormod is lying and my guess is going towards her.

Unvote

However, I am still not 100% behind moody's claim as there are two things that don't make sense to me

1- the discrepency between getting a role name (achillies) and getting an alignment (Mafia)
2- the fact he seems to get results before daybreak.


@Just_me

I had missed that completely. So I guess I'm wrong.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Tormod » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:04 am UTC

Getting results before daybreak can happen. When I doctored BN the first day and got the result non-bugger that was immidiate and during the night.

Also I don't see what is safe about the claim, it's not mafia, IF, or achilles, so theres that, but I probably can't win at the same time With anyone else With my wincon..

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:12 am UTC

Tormod wrote:Getting results before daybreak can happen. When I doctored BN the first day and got the result non-bugger that was immidiate and during the night.


Ok that makes me believe Moody a lot more

Was about to vote then realised madge is at L-1

Do we want more disscussion or shall I just hammer?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Tormod » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:16 am UTC

I would be fine With a hammer, but the Call is Yours I Guess :)

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:55 am UTC

GO FOR IT :twisted:
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:53 pm UTC

Has everyone alive even posted today? I think it's absolutely ridiculous that you guys are about to hammer me because we're trusting a story mpolo gave to SCUM (fmpov).
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby lynx » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

Why are we rolling over and letting Dragon call the shots? Come on guys.

Vote: Tormod

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby moody7277 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:40 pm UTC

Tormod wrote:Getting results before daybreak can happen. When I doctored BN the first day and got the result non-bugger that was immidiate and during the night.


Agreed. I got my result back as soon as the mod had got my request.

wam wrote:1- the discrepency between getting a role name (achillies) and getting an alignment (Mafia)


I think I figured this one out. Our rolenames are already know, and listed on page 1. Roband, who was going under the name Nikolai, was using an alias and got his true name revealed. Madge is still known as Rose the Nose.

And with Tormod's recent post, yes everyone alive has posted.

BTW, that death flavor Vieto made give me the willies.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:44 pm UTC

@moody and BN
Spoiler:
So I am indy and I am with you two. I need team dragon to survive. I don't care about scum or not. I'll wait for vieto to answer my quesiton about the lynch immunity. Will you help me to kill of the other teams once we've gotten rid of mafia? If any of you two is mafia take out lynx or tormod pls. If neither of you is, all the better. I'll try to paint tormod in really towny light so he'll be NK'd instead of moody. I hope BN you have some NK immunity.

@tormod:
Spoiler:
So whats your wincon now? are you indi for your team or are you town?


I am still not quite sure about moody.. even if he is right on madge I think there was so much pressure on the two that they might have done a nice scumplay and just thrown madge under the bus.
trusted non-scum to me is tormod and BN.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby lynx » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:48 pm UTC

wam wrote:Tormod has claimed an identical win con to KrO2
When? I can only see him claiming not mafia.

Also, I don't believe that moody is the last surviving member of the IF.
Vote: moody7277

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:02 pm UTC

lynx wrote:
wam wrote:Tormod has claimed an identical win con to KrO2
When? I can only see him claiming not mafia.


In a spoiler to me D1 and again in team chat last night.

lynx wrote:Also, I don't believe that moody is the last surviving member of the IF.


This is very key, If you are in the IF and you are alive Claim now!

moody7277 wrote:I think I figured this one out. Our rolenames are already know, and listed on page 1. Roband, who was going under the name Nikolai, was using an alias and got his true name revealed. Madge is still known as Rose the Nose.


I can buy that.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:56 pm UTC

@Just_me
Spoiler:
Actually, I want all Ender supporters dead, strangely enough. I still have someone Doctoring me, so I am safe until I can get rid of them.
I also have no team allegiance, so any team can win.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:58 pm UTC

@BN
Spoiler:
perfect. I am not one of those. Is moody one? How does the teamchange mechanic work?

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Vieto » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

votals:
tormod - 1 - Madge
Madge - 3 - Moody, Bignose, Tormod
Moody - 1 - Lynx

just_me wrote:What will happen if one team is empty, will the fights stop or will one team get the lynch-veto by default?


If an odd number of teams survive, only 2 will fight for a veto, while one will have to sit on the sidelines.

moody7277 wrote:BTW, that death flavor Vieto made give me the willies.


Well, considering some of the scenes in the source material, I think it fits right in. I decided to fix one or two typos as well upon rereading it :twisted:
Last edited by Vieto on Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:27 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:17 pm UTC

@just_me
Spoiler:
So a quick vote on Madge ends today nicely, as she is a supporter of me, so is Wam!
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:54 pm UTC

BN
Spoiler:
So she is scum or not? I'd actually like to get rid of scum before anything else because they have the NK and not much consideration for my goals. Remember I have the double vote so together we outvote your protectors.
whats moodys wincon? If he is scum and assures me I don't get killed I can hammer madge.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:15 pm UTC

Well disscussion is still going on so I will wait.

Lynx seems to be going for defending madge so we have to clear teams linked here

Madge-lynx
Moody-tormod

Will hammer later.
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:19 pm UTC

Unvote

Vote: Moody


Self defense.

Also, I re-iterate:

Has ANYBODY been roleblocked, if so on what nights?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:58 am UTC

@Just_me
Spoiler:
At the moment, it's Moody or Madge and I'd prefer Madge dead.
She is also higher on my suspect list, along with Wam, especially with teh lack of hammer on Madge.
As Wam is indicating a Madge/Lynx tie-in, which is quite obvious, I suspect that Madge/Wam rather than Madge/Lynx are the 2 most likely the dangerous.

And do you need Dragon Team to win, or just YOUR team, as team changing is an option.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:26 am UTC

BN
Spoiler:
Its dragon team.
So you don't know whether moody is scum? I really don't care about that.. I just don't want to die and I think you shouldn't want that either.. now in the lategame the double vote is especially nice and our wincons are non-contradictory.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby BigNose » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:43 am UTC

@Just_me
Spoiler:
It looks like that we could help each other all the way to the end. If Moody is still around, then we can eliminate them. Whether you are Town and he is Scum or vice versa, as it only applies to part of my wincon.
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby wam » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:49 am UTC

@ just me

Where would you vote go if you could vote without hammering?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:36 pm UTC

madge looks more scummy to me honestly.
Also it doesn't make sense to vote moody. If you think he is lying you should be voting tormod, because if tormod turns up indie and non-scum we know that madge is lying and we didn't lynch a town moody. If tormod turns up scum we are good because we killed scum and know the second scum is probably moody.
I'd be very surprised to see tormod turn up town after he himself claimed indie.

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:20 pm UTC

I agree that tormod lynch makes more sense than moody lynch but fmpov they're both scum.

I can't believe nobody has said this before, hopefully it was just because it went without saying (I certainly did), but does nobody else think it's mighty convenient that Moody got a scum result on the person who got a scum result (presumably on their partner)????

I can't believe that somebody with a weaksauce dr claim that's been believed since like d1 and yet has not been killed by the mafia, I can't believe that that person has not been lynched yet.

And most of all I acn't believe with me about to be lynched that everybody is ignoring me and chattering amongst themselves in spoilers!? unlike BigNose I don't have a spoiler reading power so I'm feeling mighty left out right now.

But whatever, if town is stupid enough to let this happen then mafia deserves to win. What the hell should I do differently next time? I told the truth in all my posts, I claimed my guilty as quickly as I could, I managed to get a friggin' guilty and not get killed by the mafia, and besides I had control of a veto yesterday and a mafia was lynched, do you think I'd let dimochka get lynched if I was mafia!?
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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:25 pm UTC

so lets lynch tormod.

vote tormod

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Re: Ender's Mafia - 'The Third' Day

Postby just_me » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:35 pm UTC

actually dim was lynched yesterday because of the timing.. you probably thought the heat was off and thus didn't feel the need to show your connection.
unvote


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