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ajh
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby ajh » Sat May 09, 2015 7:00 pm UTC

And of course I fucked up the links. The third should point one post earlier.

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mpolo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby mpolo » Sun May 10, 2015 6:53 am UTC

I don't think there's been a whole lot of movement in the thread since my last post. I am thankful that ajh is making more of an effort to provide content. As bessie says, it was unsettling that he wasn't responding to questions. It would help if he quoted the question on those so that those of us who didn't ask the question know where he's coming from, though.

As ajh mentions, there's a bit of apparent buddying between moody, freezeblade, and Carlington (mostly originating from the moody side of things). As moody is fairly experienced, I was tending to relativize these in my mind, because I don't think that he'd buddy up to his whole scum team to serve them up on a platter if he got lynched. But I am watching him.
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Diemo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Diemo » Sun May 10, 2015 10:10 am UTC

Too hungover. Will answer questions tomorrow
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moody7277
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby moody7277 » Sun May 10, 2015 2:36 pm UTC

ajh is pointing to an older impression of fb. apparently he didn't notice (as did maident) that my attitude towards fb has shifted distinctly negative. As for maident's comment:

maident wrote: I think I'm mostly puzzled because he clearly establishes Diemo as "slightly scummy" but then hitches himself to the Freezeblade bandwagon (who apparently was demoted to "neutral").


In a couple of recent games where freezeblade has been scum, I have seen a couple of things that have led me to come to that conclusion. I think I'm seeing some of those again, therefore the vote. On the other hand, I haven't seen Diemo (read was based on more general tells), so I was figuring to leave him around for further data.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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wam
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby wam » Sun May 10, 2015 8:39 pm UTC

Votals

Moody7277 - 1 - bessie
ajh - 2 - spacklcik, Freezeblade
Freezeblade - 4 - mpolo, sdk, Sirgabriel, moody7277
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SPACKlick
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SPACKlick » Sun May 10, 2015 9:12 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:Too hungover. Will answer questions tomorrow

So why post at all? Why tell us you're hungover if you don't also have a point to make. Suspicious.

Just in response to the votals above. If others decide they want to hammer now I'm fine to switch to FB, I just don't want to go to hammer -2 without the consent of the rest of town.

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Minestrone
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Minestrone » Mon May 11, 2015 3:57 am UTC

Ok so I read through trying to get a scum read on someone and I'm liking Carlington the least right now.

-Overly defensive reaction to moody "buddying" them. Doesn't seem natural for town
-Overly worried about suspicion on them when there has been no substantial suspicion on them. Dismisses this as a playstyle/attitude thing, but scum are by far more likely to believe other people see them as scummy than town are, and the attitude of avoiding getting lynched is not the correct attitude for town, who should prioritize lynching scum even if it means attracting attention in the process.

Vote: Carlington

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bessie
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby bessie » Mon May 11, 2015 4:06 am UTC

Here’s a few more reads I am trying to make my way through the player list tonight but will post what I have now. SPACKlick you can move your vote but I would prefer no one hammer yet.

Minestrone – Made a good observation about the cop power – there’s no reason not to claim the result of a one shot investigation. Doesn't want to lynch ajh because this is his typical play style. Minestrone, do you think ajh's content is acceptable? I would like to see more content from Minestrone before anyone hammers.

Moody7277 – My experience playing with moody is that I can’t tell his scum play from his town play, but if he’s town his player reads will probably be good. I don’t agree with all of his analysis but I think his content has improved enough for me to remove my vote on him today but I will be watching him tomorrow.

Unvote

Mpolo – I like his content and agree with some of his reads and I agree with his read on freezeblade. Mpolo, you had a slight scum read on SirGabriel, did your opinion of him change after he made an analysis post? I am a little suspicious of the weight you seem to have given ajh's last post, which was only a couple of sentences repeating what others have already said. Do you think ajh's content has improved enough to move him off your scum list?

Ninja'd by Minestrone, I will need to get back to this later.

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Carlington
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Carlington » Mon May 11, 2015 4:11 am UTC

I think it's late enough in the day that I'd feel comfortable casting a vote now, but much like SPACKlick, I don't want to bring us that close to hammer without making sure everyone has everything they wanted out of the first day. FWIW, SPACKlick, that means you'll hear no objection from me if you take us to L-2.

Ninja'd by bessie, if she wants to avoid the hammer for now then I'll hold off on voting until people answer her questions.
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Minestrone
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Minestrone » Mon May 11, 2015 4:21 am UTC

With the deadline still 3 days away I see no reason at all for any hammering to be done.

Bessie, I don't think ajh's content is acceptable, but I think it's a little lazy to lynch them for that alone, and if we were to lynch them and they flipped town we would learn little from the flip. I'd be most inclined to lynch them at a point later in the game if I didn't have any strong scum reads, or, ideally, if they gave some kind of scum tell.

Carlington, what do you have to say about my accusation?

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Carlington
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Carlington » Mon May 11, 2015 5:39 am UTC

Minestrone, I understand not wanting to hammer, but I would like to know whether your read on freezeblade has changed at all since you last posted about them.

As for your accusation on me, I was quite happy to ignore it unless asked directly. I think it's a pretty weak case you've made, and one that doesn't really need a defense. Looking at the votals, 1 vote on me with a justification that focuses on one small aspect compared to 4 votes on freezeblade, I'm not worried. I think you're right that the attitude of avoiding being lynched is not the right attitude for town, but I have already addressed that - from my point of view, this early in the game, I'm the only confirmed town. Of course I don't want a mislynch. I also think you're downplaying the amount of scumhunting I've done. I would put myself in the top three contributors in the thread, in terms of actual content posted, and certainly I've done a good bit of scumhunting.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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bessie
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby bessie » Mon May 11, 2015 7:49 am UTC

When I made my earlier post asking everyone not to hammer I thought deadline was on Monday. I still don’t see any need to end the day early. There are a few players that I think should try to contribute a little more before the end of the day, myself included. Here’s the remainder of my list, still not as thorough as I would have liked. I was trying to get it done tonight because I thought deadline was tomorrow.

SDK – Got a role he likes. He has posted a lot of content but not a list of reads because he likes to be asked questions. SDK, you voted for mpolo and liked his response and case on freezeblade enough to switch your vote to freezeblade. What do you think of his last post and his comment on ajh’s content?

SirGabriel – Most of his posts were discussing powers and strategy. Explained why he wasn't making an analysis post but did make one in reply to SPACKlick (mostly summary, little analysis, but does give opinions). He has not posted since that post. It seems like he was contributing more when the discussion was focused on game mechanics and is avoiding discussion of players (expect this to change on D2).

SPACKlick – Has posted so much content that nothing especially stands out to me; I just have a townie feeling about him. I can’t even think of a question to ask him that he hasn't already discussed. I will try to reread his posts tomorrow.

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SPACKlick
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SPACKlick » Mon May 11, 2015 12:32 pm UTC

So I'm very underslept but had a few thoughts

I thought, because we have a few cops in the game it might be worth considering "If I was a cop", when my awake brain caught up and told me that it was obviously pointless with one shot cops so I apologise if any reference to it is left in the rest of the post, I tried to take it all out.

Because of Carlington posting that they thought they were a high scumhunt contributor I did one of my analyses of the thread whereby I assign each post a score of 0 to 1 based on how much information, especially new information, I feel it gives because usually although not always high information means decent town.

My scores, somewhat arbitrary showed that wam was the most suspicious player. When I corrected for him being the mod

Least Useful
ajh 0.65 [9 posts]
moody7277 0.9 [7 posts]
freezeblade 1.6 [10 posts]
Midrange
mpolo 2.4 [7 posts]
SirGabriel 2.5 [10 posts] <--scum range ratio
Minestrone 2.8 [7 posts]
Diemo 3 [11 posts]
Maident 3.1 [4 posts] <--Highest density
High Utility Posters
bessie 3.7 [7 posts]
Carlington 3.7 [10 posts]
SDK 4.9 [13 posts]
Me 5.5 [16 posts] <--never trust a man's assessment of his own utility

bessie wrote:I can’t even think of a question to ask him that he hasn't already discussed.

That's why I stopped mass posting for a while. I figured I'd said my piece. Will say on re-reading I liek Diemo more than I did before Moody swings back and forth

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mpolo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby mpolo » Mon May 11, 2015 2:12 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Mpolo – I like his content and agree with some of his reads and I agree with his read on freezeblade. Mpolo, you had a slight scum read on SirGabriel, did your opinion of him change after he made an analysis post? I am a little suspicious of the weight you seem to have given ajh's last post, which was only a couple of sentences repeating what others have already said. Do you think ajh's content has improved enough to move him off your scum list?


Not a lot of time (again, stupid real life), but no, I'd say that he's still scummy, just that I was happy to see anything from him. I had also somewhat noticed the linkages there with moody and others, so there was a little bit of confirmation bias in my reaction.
Image <-- Evil experiment

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Diemo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Diemo » Mon May 11, 2015 3:26 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:
Diemo wrote:Too hungover. Will answer questions tomorrow

So why post at all? Why tell us you're hungover if you don't also have a point to make. Suspicious.

Just in response to the votals above. If others decide they want to hammer now I'm fine to switch to FB, I just don't want to go to hammer -2 without the consent of the rest of town.


Just to let you guys know that I am paying attention, it is just that life was getting in the way. Politeness I guess? I mean, if you find it that suspicious then lynch away, but that is a lynch based on playstyle rather than content and I try to avoid them (which is why I am not on the ajh wagon).

I don't have a huge amount of time so will just answer the direct questions right now. Will have more time tomorrow hopefully.

Carlington wrote:So I'm quite interested, Diemo - what harm is there in claiming cop results immediately?


Well, basically once the cop has a town result that person is conf. town to them already (barring GF shenanigans which I think we are guaranteed not to have - must check the setup though). So from the point of view of the cop his choice is to say who his town result is on, greatly increasing the likelyhood of death for that player, or hold on to the information in the hopes that you both get to endgame alive, in which case you probably win. But that is super risky, and you are quite likely to just die, so, meh.

Given stuff is one-shot the cop should just claim though. Too risky to try to have two people alive in the endgame.

Carlington wrote:but I really don't like how blasé you've just been about mislynches/misvigs, Diemo. We get two mislynches or misvigs for free, yes, but we shouldn't waste them.


This was because you said:
Carlington wrote:and obviously I don't want to end up causing a townie to be lynched, especially not the only confirmed town from my point of view, so I was reticent about speaking up.


This is scummy, but seems more newbie scummy than actually being scum. My point was that you have to speak up, and you shouldn't worry about it too much because we are going to mislynch at some point. You want to minimise that as much as possible, but you have to accept that it does happen, and not hold back information because it might cause a mislynch.


Random scummy stuff:
SPACKlick wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to circle back if a wagon gains traction but I'm not pushing now.

If freezeblade is scum then SPACKlick is probably scum. Though this argues against it
SPACKlick wrote: Need to find a game where he's town to confirm. FOS FB and will switch vote if this confirms.

So maybe I'm overreacting? IGMEOY, SPACKlick.

moody wrote:Diemo: frivolity went on a bit longer than everyone else


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Though in my case frivolity never really stops :D

I will hopefully have some time for a proper analysis post later. Not going to lie though, I am not going to do very many of them. I just dont have the time.

FOS: freezeblade
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
--Douglas Adams

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SPACKlick
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SPACKlick » Mon May 11, 2015 4:11 pm UTC

Short post before I leave.

Diemo wrote:Random scummy stuff:
SPACKlick wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to circle back if a wagon gains traction but I'm not pushing now.

If freezeblade is scum then SPACKlick is probably scum. Though this argues against it
SPACKlick wrote: Need to find a game where he's town to confirm. FOS FB and will switch vote if this confirms.

So maybe I'm overreacting? IGMEOY, SPACKlick.

Yeah I've been quite back and forth on Freezeblade. As i've said from the start it's because he felt like scum rather than I concluded he's scum which means I could be tunnelling. I'm pretty confident now though from his defences etc. I collated my posts on FB below for those interested in pursuing it. Oh by the way the full context for your scummy quote above;
SPACKlick wrote:FB: [Written before getting to SDK's vote]I'm backing off this as it's gut not head and I don't find anything heavily scum in those responses, a little defensive maybe. I wouldn't be surprised to circle back if a wagon gains traction but I'm not pushing now.
SPACKlick wrote:[Written after I saw SDK's vote] Ah, limited time to think on the freezeblade issue then. Freezeblade. Give us your reads on the board so far please. You've said next to nothing about your impressions of other players. You're not scumhunting your just defending. Join the hunt so we can see (if) you're on our side.


you make a good point on whether or not cops claim town. What's the use of a confirmed town for a day if they get NK'd the next night. I think it would still probably be a net positive but hard to tell.

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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby ajh » Mon May 11, 2015 7:20 pm UTC

Minestrone wrote:Ok so I read through trying to get a scum read on someone and I'm liking Carlington the least right now.

-Overly defensive reaction to moody "buddying" them. Doesn't seem natural for town
-Overly worried about suspicion on them when there has been no substantial suspicion on them. Dismisses this as a playstyle/attitude thing, but scum are by far more likely to believe other people see them as scummy than town are, and the attitude of avoiding getting lynched is not the correct attitude for town, who should prioritize lynching scum even if it means attracting attention in the process.

Vote: Carlington
Carlington is just honest and has very reasonable posts. Not my read at all.
SPACKlick wrote:
Diemo wrote:Too hungover. Will answer questions tomorrow
So why post at all? Why tell us you're hungover if you don't also have a point to make. Suspicious.

Just in response to the votals above. If others decide they want to hammer now I'm fine to switch to FB, I just don't want to go to hammer -2 without the consent of the rest of town.
Seriously? It's perfectly fine to announce RL distractions. You're fishing for a cheap target.
moody7277 wrote:ajh is pointing to an older impression of fb. apparently he didn't notice (as did maident) that my attitude towards fb has shifted distinctly negative. As for maident's comment:
maident wrote: I think I'm mostly puzzled because he clearly establishes Diemo as "slightly scummy" but then hitches himself to the Freezeblade bandwagon (who apparently was demoted to "neutral").
In a couple of recent games where freezeblade has been scum, I have seen a couple of things that have led me to come to that conclusion. I think I'm seeing some of those again, therefore the vote. On the other hand, I haven't seen Diemo (read was based on more general tells), so I was figuring to leave him around for further data.
You seem very careful to distance yourself from freezeblade. That explanation sounds rather post-hoc. Re-reading:
confirm, start of recursion, liking Carlington, impressions (fb town! setup for later, backpedaled?), defending fb, defending Carlington (?), reads list (tl;dr)
vote: moody

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SDK
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SDK » Mon May 11, 2015 8:45 pm UTC

Quick catch-up. I'm afraid I bit off more than I can chew with this game, but I'll be here more in future Days.

freezeblade, you didn't answer my question re: maident.

moody, could you please expand on what in freezeblade's meta you're looking at specifically?

SPACKlick, sorry if you've already gone over this, but what don't you like about freezeblade?

Minestrone, sorry if you've already gone over this, but what do you like about freezeblade?

bessie, you took your vote off moody. Any plans on moving it elsewhere?

bessie wrote:SDK, you voted for mpolo and liked his response and case on freezeblade enough to switch your vote to freezeblade. What do you think of his last post and his comment on ajh’s content?

His last post seems fine. His comment on ajh is fine too, and pretty much mirrors my opinion of ajh in general where I'm happy to get content when I can. He also talked about a link that I haven't looked into, so I don't know about that.

Also, for the record, it wasn't so much that I liked mpolo's case enough to vote for freezeblade, it was that I liked mpolo's case enough to look into freezeblade further and didn't like what I found.


SPACKlick, why did you rate everyone based on utility? What function does that serve?

ajh, is SPACKlick scum?
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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moody7277
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 11, 2015 8:55 pm UTC

Are you kidding me? :roll: You last post before this accuses me of buddying fb, and now you say I'm distancing. You seem very confused on why you think I'm scum. Regarding my freezeblade read, aside from very early on I've had a steadily descending opinion of him. I also refute your assertion that anything could be construed as defending. BTW, for the peanut gallery, this:

ajh wrote:Seriously? It's perfectly fine to announce RL distractions. You're fishing for a cheap target.


is what defending looks like to me.

FoS: ajh

@ninjaing SDK: will collect my thoughts and get back on that.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Carlington
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Carlington » Mon May 11, 2015 9:06 pm UTC

Just really quickly before work, I don't buy Diemo's reasoning for claiming cop results being harmful, although they seem to have moved on so I'm willing to leave it as well.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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maident
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby maident » Mon May 11, 2015 9:26 pm UTC

Wam, you missed my vote on Diemo.

Moody, can you share some examples of the "things" that led you to your conclusion? Also, any reply to Mpolo's assertion?

Diemo, are you not voting because you're worried about hammering? Who's the scum team, in your eyes and why? Looking forward to an analysis from you.

Bessie, thanks for the analysis, going to give it another read over when I have more time.

Spacklick, Your utlity-list is active-lurking, to be blunt. Would you consider it a good scum-to-town list? Why is SirGabriel's content in the "scum-range"? What would you want everybody to do with cop claims, if you could control it? (i.e.: nobody claims unless a hammer is close?)

Ninjas... but I'm going to look the new content over later tomorrow.

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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby freezeblade » Mon May 11, 2015 9:30 pm UTC

SDK wrote:freezeblade, you didn't answer my question re: maident.

There was a question? here, let me sift through your posts
SDK wrote:freezeblade, I notice you're not voting for anyone right now. Where do you think we should be going today? Is there a reason you left maident off your list of people you'd like more content from?

Looking back at the posts around there, including my notes, I obviously wanted more content from everyone, more information is always better, but the people I listed were ones that I felt urgantly needed more content, maidant was on the lower end of the spectrum, sure, yes, but not quite as vactious as the ones I mentioned.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 11, 2015 9:37 pm UTC

SDK wrote:moody, could you please expand on what in freezeblade's meta you're looking at specifically?

maident wrote:Moody, can you share some examples of the "things" that led you to your conclusion?


It's the same read I had on him in Mansion mafia, and the paradigm for this read was set in Seaside (both times he was mafia). A certain vagueness that exists in his posts, little reference to tha game at hand and more to meta on players. Let's see if this game fits the pattern:

Posts 1&2: joke vote and unvote on SDK. This is pretty much early game weirdness.

Post 3: Anti NL post. Pretty standard strategy.

Post 4: More anti NL stuff, with a specific warning to SPACKlick.

Post 5: The post where he explains why cops can't be trusted. Only includes cases of scum claiming cop result. Obviously town cop would be trustworthy, but he fails to mention that this would be the case 75% of the time, and even in 2 of his 4 scum!cop scenarios we get useful data.

Post 6: Reaction to posts by bessie and SPACKlick, but in ways that are very peripheral (more NL meta and how he posts at work).

Post 7: EBWOP

Post 8: Complains about SDK's reasoining

Post 9: Reads post. me, ajh, maident most scummy

Post 10: Votes ajh

So, everything but 5 and 9 seem to fit. The anti cop result analysis seems dubious, and as I think was pointed out earlier wants to make us distrust results. The big reads post is the counterpoint. The cynical read of that is he had 2 or 3 votes on him (depepnding on when he started it) and wanted some content to point at.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Diemo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Diemo » Mon May 11, 2015 9:39 pm UTC

@Carlington: Not harmful per se. There is nothing wrong with claiming your cop results. But there is also a consideration to not claiming. Which, as I have said repeatedly, is pretty weak.

Ok.

ajh: Short posts. Likes my reasoning. I meant to go back and see how he played in old game, but I don't have time, so will just judge on this game. He has given solid opinions, and raised fairly justifiable concerns about moody. Townyish.

bessie: I missed your question earlier. Yeah, I wasn't willing to put that much pressure on freezeblade at the time but support a freezeblade lynch. Posted some reads. neutral.

Carlington: Overall towny. Would not vote for him today. Opinions subject to change though.

Diemo: To quote Madge, THE TOWNIEST TOWN WHO EVER TOWNED!

freezeblade: You know, rereading it I am not seeing it. He seems fine to me. I've changed my mind on him.

maident: Hey, your voting for me. So, most of the time I read this on my phone and will only post jokes or short posts. Otherwise I will leave it for a longer post like this one. Gave opinions. Neutral.

Minestrone: Neutral. I agree with you on Carlington, btw, but I am putting that down to inexperience

moody: If I am your top scum, why are you voting for freezeblade? Suspicious.

mpolo: Probably fine. I skipped you.

SDK: I skipped you too. Though the whole freezeblade lynch thing is weird. Your hard to analyse though, I am going to have to put aside an hour or so at some point to do so.

Sir Gabriel: Got the wording on the recursive vote chain slightly wrong. Clearly mafia! In seriousness though, his contribution during the first few RL days was particularly weak. Claims that freezeblade wants cop results to be ignored - I didn't gather that. (Re-reads) Oh I see what you mean. That's good content. Hmm, was third on the freezeblade lynch. Seems scummy.

SPACKlick: I have no idea what your density function for scum is or how you worked out that Sir Gabriel is in the scum range ratio. But would be interested in finding out.

Unvote

Vote: Sir Gabriel

IGMEOY: moody, Minestrone.

People who I am willing to lynch on principal: SDK, mpolo :P

Ninja'd:
maident wrote:Diemo, are you not voting because you're worried about hammering?


Or because I was typing in a hurry.

Ninja'd again. Doesn't matter, I'm going home.
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Diemo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Diemo » Mon May 11, 2015 9:40 pm UTC

Dammit moody! Those are some good points.
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SPACKlick
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SPACKlick » Mon May 11, 2015 10:09 pm UTC

SDK wrote:SPACKlick, sorry if you've already gone over this, but what don't you like about freezeblade?

My negative on freezeblade started off as a feeling rather than a read. Page 1 no contributions (not unusual) but I had an odd feeling about their first two posts. I've tried to see reasons for those feelings but honestly don't know why. Page 2 1 post, Really didn't like cop part that gave the suggestion to not claim cop and ignore all cop claims or at least consider cop claims minimally useful, sounded like trying to convince town not to use the information at its disposal. Also didn't like the shutdown of conversation about roles because I think some level of conversation can help town more than scum. Page 3, [he's now voted for] he posts a long post with very little content in, claims it's due to busy at work but even so... and then the only post since was to say his reads post wasn't for you SDK. Three days have now passed with no posts. From two prior games (woohoo tiny sample size) seeing FB play he tries to close off discussions when scum and contributes in small bursts as town. It's still more feel than read but Freezeblade looks to be doing a make lots of noise about nothing and justify lurking thing which seems scummy.

[Pre-edit from moody's post. Odd, 5 and 9 are the two that stand out to me as most generically scummy]

I still find ajh more scummy but ,as several people have said "That's how ajh always plays", while I'll leave my vote on them, I'm not too torn on it.

SPACKlick, why did you rate everyone based on utility? What function does that serve?

Slightly complex answer. I did it because Carlington made a comment about contributing lots of information,which got me thinking and I like crunching numbers when I'm tired. I've done similar in other games and have found it useful for assessing close votes and for checking confirmation bias. Scum tend to have lower actual contribution content and if I'm unsure and it turns out I'm wrong I'd rather lose a villager that's not helping than a villager that's helping lots. I posted it because doing it and seeing the results changed my impressions of a couple of people and so having done it figured it may help someone else.

Fuck, like 4 posts since I started typing this. I will be more competent after a nights sleep. The way the content density thing works is simple, purely subjectively I read a post and rank it between 0 and 1 for content. A Detailed post of reads and reasoning is a 1 but loses some points for repetition of someone else's reasoning (because that's not new intel but it's new that you claim to think it) Posts with a single small point in are about 0.3-0.6, posts with a lot of waffle and a small point are 0.1. I do have found in the past that in a 3/9 game the scum were pretty consistently in the bottom 4 by both number and ratio apart from one game with a player who dominated the conversation but was clearly scummy who sat very high up the ranking but stank of tells. When I say Sir Gabriel was scum range I mean around 25% and in the bottom 4.

It's not enough to base a whole vote on but it can help in close calls.

ajh said I was fishing for a lynch on Diemo, not at all. I was fishing for information. As I may have made clear I find posts with no content on someone's own thought process suspicious. Popping in and posting something that you could have posted without reading the thread (Excluding notifications of specific length absences like "going to wedding back Mon evening BST) doesn't help town at all. I asked for an explanation, got one, was reasonably satisfied but in a close call it'll enter into my decision. I disagree with Diemo that you shouldn't lynch based on playstyle because most players have slightly different playstyle's as scum and town.

Maident asked about what I'd do with cops if I was in control of them. My instinct at the moment is for all cops to instaclaim. I'm not sure and I do understand the argument about town claims being very difficult for players to interpret but as I've said, I generally find the more information town shares the better town does.

Sorry if I missed anything, please prod if I did. Will re-read after sleep. SPACKlick out.

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Minestrone
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Minestrone » Mon May 11, 2015 10:46 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Minestrone, sorry if you've already gone over this, but what do you like about freezeblade?


I assume you mean what do I think about freezeblade? I don't like much of anything about them. The main thing they did that I saw as scummy was their post about cop strategy, but that only minorly so. I've been suspicious of how early the wagon formed on them too. At the same time, moody made some good points in their analysis of Freezeblade so I'm starting to come around to a Freezeblade lynch.

Carlington: Your response to me asking for a response to my vote rubs me the wrong way. I didn't say or imply that there was something wrong with you ignoring my vote, just that I wanted to hear your response, but your reply seemed overly worried with justifying why you ignored my vote. Which makes me happy with where my vote is.

Diemo wrote:Minestrone: Neutral. I agree with you on Carlington, btw, but I am putting that down to inexperience


I understand that they're inexperienced, but the particular things I'm seeing that make me think they're scum don't seem like a product of inexperienced town. Inexperience usually means a little lower content, more following etc and maybe general lack of confidence in reads. If being overly self conscious is linked to inexperience at all, I'd argue that it's mostly linked to inexperienced scum.

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SirGabriel
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SirGabriel » Mon May 11, 2015 11:30 pm UTC

I just realized I haven't posted in a couple days. I've been following along, there just didn't seem to be a lot of new content added.
I still think freezeblade is the best lynch for D1. ajh is looking a bit better in my mind. Several people have been talking about Carlington, but I don't see anything particularly scummy in his posts.

Diemo wrote:Sir Gabriel: Got the wording on the recursive vote chain slightly wrong. Clearly mafia! In seriousness though, his contribution during the first few RL days was particularly weak. Claims that freezeblade wants cop results to be ignored - I didn't gather that. (Re-reads) Oh I see what you mean. That's good content. Hmm, was third on the freezeblade lynch. Seems scummy.

Vote: Sir Gabriel

I admit that I haven't had as much content on day 1 as some of the other players, but this is only my third online game of mafia.
Are you voting me for lack of content? For joining a bandwagon? Or what?

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mpolo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby mpolo » Tue May 12, 2015 5:18 am UTC

As the posts got longer there, my reading got more skimmy, because I'm trying to get something in before breakfast.

I don not like ajh's last post at all. The comment on Carlington seems to be completely buddying. Town wouldn't know anything to come to that certain a conclusion about another. Maybe I'm reading too much into the short post, though. There's a rather small chance of them being masons as well. The comments about SPACKlick are fairly weak, and on moody, he can't seem to make up his mind.

Freezeblade is still probably a better target at the moment. Ajh's short posting style may have me filling in things mentally that aren't there. He is certainly on my scummy list, though.
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby mpolo » Tue May 12, 2015 5:23 am UTC

EBWOP: I think the mason comment is wrong — I had "Best Idea" in my head when I posted that. I don't believe there is any chance of masons here.
Image <-- Evil experiment

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SirGabriel
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SirGabriel » Tue May 12, 2015 1:31 pm UTC

Just so everyone knows, I'm leaving today for vacation. I might post tonight, but after that I probably won't have internet for a couple days. Fortunately, my vote for D1 is pretty much set and most of the time I'll be away should be N1, so I don't think I'll miss much.

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wam
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby wam » Tue May 12, 2015 6:12 pm UTC

Votals

Moody7277 - 1 - ajh
ajh - 2 - spacklcik, Freezeblade
Freezeblade - 4 - mpolo, sdk, Sirgabriel, moody7277
Carlington - 1 - minestrone
Diemo - 1 - maident
Sir Gabriel - 1 - Diemo

7 to lynch deadline in 24 hours

Come join us playing mafia signup here

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bessie
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby bessie » Wed May 13, 2015 2:04 am UTC

I’m just reading stuff on this page for now so I can get this posted.

Re: Diemo’s hangover PSA. I agree with what others have said. I would rather people post to let us know that they’re currently indisposed but will be posting soon, as long as it doesn't happen every day. I've done it myself already this game. At least we know they aren't gone. But I would expect some content in a reasonable amount of time.

A few quotes about ajh:
Minestrone wrote:Bessie, I don't think ajh's content is acceptable, but I think it's a little lazy to lynch them for that alone, and if we were to lynch them and they flipped town we would learn little from the flip. I'd be most inclined to lynch them at a point later in the game if I didn't have any strong scum reads, or, ideally, if they gave some kind of scum tell.

mpolo wrote:Not a lot of time (again, stupid real life), but no, I'd say that he's still scummy, just that I was happy to see anything from him.

Diemo wrote:I mean, if you find it that suspicious then lynch away, but that is a lynch based on playstyle rather than content and I try to avoid them (which is why I am not on the ajh wagon).

SDK wrote:His last post seems fine. His comment on ajh is fine too, and pretty much mirrors my opinion of ajh in general where I'm happy to get content when I can.

Well, you can't all be buddying ajh! I've never played with ajh, and I've been going back and forth on him because I had considered his lack of content suspicious while others seem to consider this his meta or a playstyle difference. I do think that he has shown improvement in his last post. It was short on content (mostly quotes) but he did give some reasonable reads (although next time I would like to see more reads and reasons for those reads). I’m going to be watching him closely tomorrow.

SDK wrote:bessie, you took your vote off moody. Any plans on moving it elsewhere?

Yes, I am going to

Vote freezeblade

For my reasons, please reference this earlier post.
bessie wrote:Freezeblade – I agree that we should be wary of any cop claims but don’t agree that a cop result is a null tell. You made this odd reply to me earlier and I'm not sure what to make of it:

freezeblade wrote:*goes back and reads bessie's post*
I see, you mentioned NL, but didn't suggest we do it. You expected me to jump down your throat for duscussing the concept of NL, and how we handle it in these forums? That's...a strange expectation. I'm not liking how lurky you've been though though, now that you mention it, seeing as how I forgot you were even in this game.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood this general warning from an earlier post. I thought you were more serious.
freezeblade wrote:I'm just warning you, meta around these parts, numbers be damned, to even suggest a NL on D1 can be grounds for lynching.


His I-forgot-you-were-here reply to me is the kind of reaction I get every day at work when I point out to someone something they forgot or did wrong. I thought that by poking freezeblade a little I might get a reaction from him. But he has hardly posted anything in the last couple days. He did make a reply to SDK that was a little dismissive too. I see him as acting like someone who got caught.

SirGabriel, what bothers me the is not your lack of content. You posted a lot of content on game mechanics but quieted down when we moved on to scum hunting.

I will be home later tonight but will be at work tomorrow at deadline.

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freezeblade
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 13, 2015 4:49 am UTC

Scum 3 games in a row is killing me.
LETS PLAY A WINE GAME!
One of the following players is scum: moody7277, SDK, SPACKlick
One of the following players is scum: ajh, Minestrone, mpolo
Discuss.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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SDK
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SDK » Wed May 13, 2015 4:55 am UTC

:lol:
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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SPACKlick
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SPACKlick » Wed May 13, 2015 8:19 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:Scum 3 games in a row is killing me.
LETS PLAY A WINE GAME!
One of the following players is scum: moody7277, SDK, SPACKlick
One of the following players is scum: ajh, Minestrone, mpolo
Discuss.

Just on my way out the door but I'm not familiar with this tactic. Is the aim to make us lynch bessie because you left her off the list. Is this an actual admission of scum or some sarcasm I'm not getting.

SDK's smiley makes me think there's a meme I'm missing in this.

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SDK
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby SDK » Wed May 13, 2015 1:11 pm UTC

It's the funniest scum admission I've ever seen, that's all. The tactic is to get us discussing it at all since any conclusions we could reach from those lists are going to be useless.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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mpolo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby mpolo » Wed May 13, 2015 1:29 pm UTC

It's pretty classic wine though. I know that you know that I know that I would put the following person on my scum list…
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Diemo
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby Diemo » Wed May 13, 2015 1:41 pm UTC

Yeah. You can try to get information out of it, but it is such classic wine. Doesn't look to good for me though.

I guess we just hammer him?

Unvote

Vote: freezeblade


That's L-1, btw.
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freezeblade
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Re: Chaos Mafia - Day 1 Deadline 13th May 7 pm

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 13, 2015 3:34 pm UTC

The list is clearly 100% truth.
seriously.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."


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