Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

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ConMan
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby ConMan » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:55 pm UTC

SDK wrote:ConMan, why do you think I'm scum? Presumably you think I'm Kingsley aligned?

Moody, if you don't think JoJ is scum, who is?

I don't know that I think you're Kingsley aligned, and I wouldn't say I'm sure you're scum, but based on what I know of the roles still out there you're one of a dwindling group where I haven't seen a particularly strong claim. Of course, I know there are still one or two unclaimed town roles, but I have a feeling that I know what role moody has, which means that if JoJ is town then there's not much left to assign to you (although I do have an alternative scenario in which you have that role, making moody the odd one out, but it doesn't mesh as well with what I've seen from the two of you).

That said, I now have some further info that quite strongly implicates Jar'o'Jam as being scum, and I think if either VZ or TS agrees that it's damning then we will probably divulge it in full quite soon.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby moody7277 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:38 am UTC

SDK wrote:Moody, if you don't think JoJ is scum, who is?


Current reads list:

VectorZero- pretty strong townie read on him

frogman- is Mike Tyson currently, so he's town

JarOJam- I don't have a read on him town or scum, and the one thing we did have against him was complicated by mod issues.

ConMan- claims "double-town", D2 votes SPACKlick, switches to Az, D3 votes ThinkSweet, but removes it due to mason chat, votes fb, no vote D4, suspicious of JoJ and SDK. moderately townie vibe.

infina- D1 foses frogman on lack of content, votes Az, switches to Nebu, D2 votes Madge for a while, concerned about the state of the vote which at the time was a bit scattered, votes Minestrone, D3 votes Van, priority is cult, win condition discussion, unvotes, D4 claims Jade after being asked by VZ, D5 is "full town" after apparent removal of cult. according to the wiki, looks like it's a town role.

ThinkSweet- D1 votes Nebu, part of the daychat cluster, D2 switched role, D3 some role spec, partial reads list, votes EH, D4 more reads, suspicious of JoJ and SPACK, votes JoJ, nothing yet D5. neutral to leaning town.

SDK- D1 catching up after subbing in for maj, votes quintopia, quick summary of reads, switched vote to Nebu, D2 votes infina, claims D1 role Sid, pro-Vytron, switches vote to EH, eager for momentum, D3 list of votables, votes EH, promises case on EH since vote was going elsewhere, D4 made moot by EH death N3, suspicious of SPACK, reads list, votes SPACK, D5 votes JoJ until mod admission. basically, this is the town!SDK I saw in Seaside mafia, and I really want to go that way. but town has been burned by him a couple of times, so there's that little bit of doubt

weiyaoli- D1 setup spec, contributes to RR daychat, votes maj for a while, reads and questions, D2 role shifted, claims secondary win N1, claims D1 role wedding singer, questions body count, votes frogman, switches to EH, D3 early vote for SPACK (looks aggressive), claims flavor cop, including suspicious result on SPACK, unvotes, D4 votes SPACK again, spec on Van being cult, D5 voting JoJ. Lot of work, looks pretty good, and flavor cop claim. town.

In summary, here's my lynch list in order until town wins:

JoJ
SDK
ThinkSweet

after that, it doesn't matter because I don't think it will go that far.

Vote: JarO'Jam
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby _infina_ » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:53 am UTC

Moody - The full town is the fact that Carlos - as played by Van, is no longer alive, switching my goal to be a win with town over protecting Carlos.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby VectorZero » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:36 am UTC

So I think the only thing we are waiting on is for JoJ to defend himself better, TS to post and Wei to post his flavourcop?

Wei, if you got a town result on anyone other than JoJ, perhaps keep it to yourself: confirmed townies no good if there's any cult recruits left over.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:39 am UTC

Votals:
Jar'O'Jam - 3 (Vectorzero, weiyaoli, moody7277)

9 players remain
5 to lynch, 3 at deadline

Deadline is Friday.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby ThinkSweet » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:51 am UTC

Sorry guys, busy few rl days!

Well I'm still more sure than not that Jar'O'Jam is the final Mafioso, so:

Vote: Jar'O'Jam

I don't mind claiming if people think it will help, I guess if we know who everyone is then it may become easier to weed out any cult members who have done things not explained by their role. But at least if JoJ is the last Mafia member we should have more cult hunting time as no townies should die overnight. I won't be able to do anything in depth until Thursday evening, so if a lynch hasn't happened by then I'll try some analysis of Vans interactions.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby SDK » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:56 pm UTC

Pretty sure there are no cult members left, right? Unless they maintained their recruit? Seems unlikely.

I don't really see the need to claim at this point. The JoJ lynch is basically a sure thing unless he comes back with a very good explanation for his actions. If we're wrong about him, we can claim tomorrow. Seems to me we're in a difficult-to-lose position at this point. Unless there are still cultists around we're at 8v1. No big deal.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby VectorZero » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:08 pm UTC

So hammer then.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby SDK » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:16 pm UTC

I was going to ask Ug to prod him since it's been 72 hours since his last post. I guess that works too, though. *shrug*

Vote Jar'O'Jam
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby _infina_ » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:31 pm UTC

And just because

Vote Jar'O'Jam
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Re: Hangafia - Day 5 - I thought he looked like a Carlos too

Postby ConMan » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:50 am UTC

And just in case,

Vote Jar'O'Jam
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby Dr Ug » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:03 pm UTC

They drag the monk out of his wheelchair, string him up. He refuses to talk, through to the last. Not even as his neck breaks as he drops from the top floor of the hotel to dangle by his neck.

Jar'O'Jam is lynched. He was the Silent Monk, final member of Kingsley's Gang

Everyone realises that the hotel door is actually open, and everyone could have left at any time, so they all do. Alan and Jade end up hooking up, after Alan conforted Jade on the death of Carlos. Kimmy and Tyson had a bit of a fling, again after Tyson conforted Kimmy on the death of Stu. Doug and Tracy decided to have a second honeymoon, whilst Garden took Sid on a trip to Vegas. What happened in Vegas? It stays in Vegas

Town win, secondary town win

Winpoints!!!

weiyaoli was Kimmy, gains 2 primary wins (town, had sex with Stu) and 1 secondary win (town as he thought he was the Wedding Singer)
michaelandjimmi SDK was Tracy, gains 2 primary wins (town, Doug survived) and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Sid)
_infina_ was Jade, gains 1.5 primary wins (town, found carlos who died) and 1 secondary win (town as he thought he was Franklin)
moody7277 was Sid, gains 1 primary win (town) and 2 secondary wins (town, and because he was Tyson and found his tiger)
kalira was the Wedding Singer, gains 1 primary win (town, and 1 secondary win (town, though she was Tracy)
RoadieRich was Teddy, gains 1 primary win (town) and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Carlos)
Sungura Murrin was Franklin, gains 1 primary win (town) and 1 secondary win (town, thought she was Teddy)
quintopia was Fat taser kid, gains 1 primary win (town), and 1 secondary win (town, thought she was Doug)
VectorZero was Alan, gains 1 primary win (town), and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Stu)
Thinksweet was Doug, gains 1 primary win (town) and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Alan)
frogman was Tyson, gains 1 primary win (town) and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Kimmy)
ConMan was Garden, gains 1 primary win (town) and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Phil)
Megatriorchis Vytron was Stu, gains 1 primary win (town) and 0 secondary wins (thought he was Kingsley)
cycoden was Phil, gains 1 primary win (town) and 0 secondary wins (thought he was Robert Downey Jr)
Carlington was tiger, gains 1 primary win (town) and 0 secondary wins (thought he was Marshall)
Jar'O'Jam was silent monk, gains 0 primary wins and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was tiger)
SPACKlick was Kingsley, gains 0 primary wins and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Garden)
MasterOfAll was Black Doug, gains 0 primary wins and 1 secondary win (town, thought he was Jade)
Van was Carlos, recruited cult, gains 0 wins (thought he was Fat taser kid)
Electrichaze was Samir/Eddie, gains 0 wins (thought he was Dog)
Freezeblade was Robert Downey Jr, gains 0 wins (thought he was Smoking Monkey)
madge was Melissa, recruited cult, gains 0 wins (thought she was Silent Monk)
Azrael001 was Chow, gains 0 wins (always knew he was Chow)
Minestrone was Dog, gains 0 wins (thought he was Melissa)
Aardvarki was Smoking monkey, gains 0 wins (thought he was Samir/Eddie)
Nebuduck was Marshall, gains 0 wins (thought he was black doug)

Room Spinning mechanics:

This was partly flavour, and partly mechanic. It was aiming to setup a "wtf is happening" type start of the game, to fit the flavour. The game was large, and slow paced by design, so I thought 1 RL week of confusion shouldn't be too harmful, and wanted to try out the secondary win conditions that I have used in previous games, but on a larger scale (where nearly everyone had secondary goals). The reason for the order to be given out initially was to (a) give some hint that something was up, (b) provide feedback for secondary goals and (c) to provide a weakness for cult.

So the room spun for either the first real life week, or until someone gained 5 votes. Each day the order would be randomised. The starting order was deliberately in order of the initial roles, as this was the only feedback people got for their secondary wins. It was also meant to be as a hint to the scum teams that something was up. Nebuduck was the first to realise it, but failed to capitalise on his knowledge. It was also the major weakpoint for scum, in that Azrael was chow the whole time.

Once the trigger of 7 days / 5 votes was up, roles were slowly revealed in stages.

Day 1 the leaders of the major teams were notified (Azrael, Nebuduck, SPACKlick and Vectorzero - being Chow, Marshall, Kinglsley and Alan)

24 hours later, the second reveal occured (Freezeblade, Electrichaze, Vytron, Sungura and ConMan) - being 2nd members of scum teams - and inventors, Stu (wolfpack second member) and the two cop masons (Garden and Franklin)

at the end of day 1, anyone with a night action that hadn't been notified was notified (Jar'O'Jam, Aardvarki, MasterOfAll, Minestrone, RoadieRich, Carlington, madge, quintopia, weiyaoli)

at the end of night 1, anyone without an important night action was notified - ie everyone else (frogman, cycoden, _infina_, SDK, moody7277, Van, kalira, thinksweet).

All powers were as per the real roles from the begining, and first vote of the day activated any daypower, even before actual roles were known. This is how Van got communication with Nebuduck (Carlos targeted Nebuduck by voting for him), and Thinksweet got communication with Nebuduck (Doug, Jack of All trades, using his communicator power - a random number generator selected which power he would attempt to use day 1 if he didn't know who he was).

All nonmajor powers - communication, means of gaining wins (like looking for people) were preserved from initial roles, so fake Tyson was still looking for fake Tiger, fake Jade still wanted fake Doug to survive. All major powers (kills, cops, etc.) were not. Win conditions were preserved.

Cult eliminated all previous win conditions (primary and secondary), but preserved all powers.

The relationship between initial roles and secondary roles was pseudorandom. My first shuffle was random and I twerked it a bit for balance. Each fake scum team actually controlled 2 kills (madge who thought he was in Kingsley's Gang was really the serial killer, Carlington who thought he was in Marshall's mob was really the vig). Each fake scum also had an inventor. They also had a member of the real wolfpack. Even the fake Serial killer partially maintained a kill by remaining in a scum team. I expected these cross-loyalties to create much more interesting play than it did.

Each mafia team had a member who had thought he was originally on the other mafia team - so mafia knew each other existed. Each mafia team also had a team member who was always in that mafia team. In hindsight, this may have been a weakness for mafia in that 4/8 mafia members were in the "top 9" list from the original roles, and so perhaps targets? Not sure if this actually contributed to mafia's loss or not.

My comments:

Town played this very well. I had thought the confusion element would have played a lot more of an anti-town factor, but there was not a single mislynch. I was very surprised by this. I also think that scum played incredibly badly. They failed to capitalise on many of the advantages they held (such as not knowing who they were so as to avoid scumtells day 1 - this should have been a fairly major advantage). They failed to capitalise on any of the communication networks they had access to. The inventors failed to make use of their incredibly strong power - especially when SPACKlick was lynched whilst holding onto and invention that could have made him unlynchable that day...

I think Azrael played very well, and came close to winning. If it wasn't for the unfortunate night 2 event where Azrael recruited madge, and madge killed Azrael, I think cult would have come very close to winning, as they would have then had a minimum of 4 members, and controlled a kill. Interestingly the doctor protected Van, after she was recruited, for night 2 and 3 when he was targetted by mafia for nightkills!

The Fake Wolfpack probably played a major role in the town win, having established trust and functioning as a mason group in a way neither of the real mason groups (cops and wolfpack) did, to help guide at least the final few days of play.

Inactivity also harmed the scum teams somewhat, with 2 modkills for scum members. Which is a shame. I did like SPACKlick's falseclaim at the end, especially as he worked out who the remaining cult was (Van) with no behind the scenes knowledge. If he'd managed to convince a Van lynch, he may have been able to pull a win out? (Especially if he'd used the unlynchable invention...) It was probably too late though.

I was surprised that no-one really tried to work for their secondary goals, and perhaps I shouldn't have worded the messages so strongly that people should focus on the primary goals.

I hope you all enjoyed the game.

Roles:
Spoiler:
Chow (Azrael001, fake - Azrael001). Standard cult leader. 1 recruit per night, recruit died with leader. Role preserved through room spinning
Marshall (Nebuduck, fake - Carlington). Godfather, Marshall's mob (mafia). Copped as town, controlled kill (selected target and killer)
Robert Downey Jr (Freezeblade, fake - cycoden) - Inventor, Marshall's mob (mafia). Able to create one invention per day.
Black Doug (MasterOfAll, fake - Nebuduck) - roleblocker, Marshall's mob (mafia). Roleblock 1 player per night.
Dog (Minestrone, fake - ElectricHaze) - goon, Marshall's mob (mafia).
Kingsley (SPACKlick, fake - Carlington) - Godfather, Kingsley's gang (mafia). Copped as town, controlled kill (selected target and killer)
Samir/Eddie (ElectricHaze, fake - Aardvarki) - Inventor, Kingsley's gang (mafia). Able to create one invention per day.
Silent monk (Jar'O'Jam, fake - madge) - roleblocker, Kingsley's gang (mafia). Roleblock 1 player per night.
Smoking Monkey (Aardvarki, fake Freezeblade) - goon, Kingsley's gang (mafia).
Melissa (madge, fake Minestrone) - serial killer. Survive alone, had a night kill
Alan (VectorZero, fake ThinkSweet) - town mason
Stu (Vytron, fake VectorZero) - town mason
Phil (cycoden, fake ConMan) - town mason
Tracy (SDK, fake kalira) - town, gained additional win if Doug survived
Officer Garden (ConMan, fake SPACKlick) - mason cop (insane) - chose one of the two to use their cop each night
Officer Franklin (Murrin, fake _infina_) - mason cop (sane) - chose one of the two to use their cop each night
Kimmy (weiyaoli, fake frogman) - town role cop - choose one player to sleep with (role cop) each night, gained extra win for sleeping with Stu.
Doug (Thinksweet, fake quintopia) - town, Jack of all trades. Each day a choice of (Night kill, cop, communicator, bulletproof, doctor)
Wedding Singer (kalira, fake weiyaoli) - town, flavour poster. Could post in mod flavour voice once per day.
Teddy (RoadieRich, fake sungura murrin) - town, doctor, could protect one player per night from night kill.
Tyson (frogman, fake moody7277) - town, public daykill one shot, gained an additional win for finding his tiger (selected a target for this each night)
Carlos (Van, fake RoadieRich) - town communicator, choose one player and gain the ability to PM with them for the rest of that day/night cycle
Jade (_infina_, fake MasterOfAll) - town, looking for Carlos (selected a target for this each night) gained extra win for finding Carlos and him surviving to endgame
Tiger (Carlington, fake Jar'O'Jam) - town vigilante, controlled a night kill
Fat Taser Kid (quintopia, fake Van) - town roleblocker, roleblock 1 player per night
Sid (moody7277, fake SDK) - town commuter, immune to night actions on odd (vs even) nights.


I will post night communications logs and modnotes once I tidy them up a little.
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby VectorZero » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:24 pm UTC

Cool.

Thanks for the game everyone.

Well played to my OG Wolfpack buddies, and thank you for your trust.

Well played SPACKlick. You did really well, some of the best scum play I've ever seen.

I'm frankly astonished I wasn't killed once I was outed as a member of two mason groups. Breaking the ignorant majority/informed minority balance is a HUGE power. Madge got vig'd and TS survived based on mason chat information.

Spoiler time!
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby weiyaoli » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:33 pm UTC

Have yet to read spoilers, but I was a little confused why I was (presumably) roleblocked the past two nights. They knew there was an actual cop still out there, and the Silent Monk wasn't a godfather. And as it turns out, the JOAT also had a chance to cop people. I mean, I did target JoJ both times with the flavour cop, so depending on if I got something incriminating it would have had the same outcome, but still...
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:01 pm UTC

Well, this game ended up being alright after all. Once I realised we were permanently done with the shenanigans, I didn't mind putting in a bit of effort to get this done. Day 1 was essentially a huge waste of time, so I think I might have sped up the room spinning thing a bit to avoid having people get pissed off. Maybe swap two or three players every 24 hours from the beginning of the game or something. Keep the WTF momentum going instead of one big bomb. The anger was understandable, so the modkills were kind of inevitable, but in the end worked out fine. Thanks for modding, Dr Ug.

You said that you thought the room spinning should have hurt town more than it did, but I think it helped town immensely. We knew exactly what to expect from the setup, how many mafia teams and members there were in each, that it was very simple to just count them down and very hard for scum to lie about much of anything.
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby frogman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

Reading over the spoilers, I don't think I had realized before how damn good Amy is at this game. If I mod a game in the future I want her in it.
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby Van » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:42 pm UTC

What a strange game! Fairly straightforward after D1, though it didn't seem like it. Thanks for the invite to play, Dr Ug, it was fun.

Someone, I don't remember who, said that voting was related to D1 abilities. It really didn't look like it at the time, but knowing now that our roles were pre-determined, it makes sense. Great thinking.

Kudos to SPACKlick for apparently blindly fingering me as cult. I thought I was doing OK at hiding, but from that and the lack of town surprise, apparently not :D

Apologies to Madge for my rather gruesome bussing, and to everyone for increasing lurking towards the end - I'm just a bit too busy for mafia, I think.
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby freezeblade » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:32 pm UTC

I only wish people had targgeted me more at night, I had created a PGO device (invention) on every night. Could have caused some more kills. Great game!
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby Vytron » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:55 pm UTC

Indeed, I think this is the strangest non-joke game I've ever seen! Thanks for modding it Dr Ug!

I've gotta say I don't really likes games with multiple wins and secondary wins, because then, one doesn't feel like a winner, looking up at players that got more wins than you or both kinds of wins. I find it better when you just win or lose, with no grades of winning, specially when one didn't get the chance to win twice, and it was impossible to achieve secondary win because it was conflicting by the main one, so it's like I couldn't have done better but still ended with less than other people.

I think this game would have worked a lot better as a turbo. Imagine if the initial confusion lasted 72 hours, and we get a flip, and then the game picks up and goes on, with a lynch every 48 hours or something. I think that'd been action packed, and would have made the game work better overall.

What hurt the game the most was the length it took things to happen, but I'm glad to find it recovered near the end and it turned out to have all the mafia elements necessary for a perfect town game.

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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby ConMan » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:57 pm UTC

Thanks Dr Ug! And thanks for the explanation.

Another pretty useful thing in town's favour was, amazingly enough, the modkill of one of the cops. It took me a few tries to work out I was insane (ThinkSweet investigating as scum was one of my biggest reasons for pushing that bandwagon and it was only thanks to mason chat and Madge's death that made me withdraw) but if Murrin had still been around then I don't think we would have realised that the cop result depended on who took the action until it would have been too late.

I had also hoped that the mason lines would run for a bit longer than they did, but obviously the people who were in the most groups were also some of the biggest targets (especially Vytron, who I think was the node to about half of town at one point).
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Re: Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:38 pm UTC

Thanks to Dr Ug for inviting us to this game, haven't played Mafia in a long time, and I guess it shows :)
Was somewhat surprised that people played the meta game of Mafia, rather than the specific setting of the game, but I've decided to stick to my role and tried to stay in the character for some time.

Too bad our final plan got botched a bit, I was really expecting to try and "unlynch" SPACKlick, but he didn't use his unlynchable invention in time and with all sights set on me, I had almost no chances of winning this one as the final non-town member :)

And apologies to Dr Ug for having to modprod me almost every day of the game.
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