Vanillafia D3 - Ice Lollies for all: Town win!

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ElectricHaze
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby ElectricHaze » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:15 pm UTC

Just got home. I'm going to unpack and work on redoing toss thread and making a meaningful post.
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ElectricHaze
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby ElectricHaze » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:16 pm UTC

Ebwop: stupid phone auto correct...
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby bessie » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:45 am UTC

We’re still a long way from the hammer, but a bandwagon can form quickly, and I’m concerned that there hasn’t been enough discussion yet. Even if Djehutynakht and lynx are scum, we probably have at least one other scum and we need to try do draw out connections between players now, because it will be very difficult to find a lone remaining mafia member. Here’s my list of reads so far. It’s a little sparse but I wanted to get this out there because I might be busy for the next two nights (Tues and Wed). I will still post and answer questions but my content may be light.

ajh – A little low on content.
ajh wrote: Also general mafia advice, since I seem to be unreadable.

I don’t necessarily think you’re unreadable, you just don’t post often, and your posts are largely quotes with a few lines of original content. I would like to know your thoughts on more players.

BenM16 – Busy, requested replacement.

Carlington – I’m still not entirely convinced that lynx is a better lynch than Djehutynakht, but l like your analysis, and your recent posts have convinced me you’re town.

dimochka – I don’t agree with your analysis of DJ, I somewhat agree with your analysis of lynx. Promised further content tomorrow.

Djehutynakht – Sorry for ignoring you the entire game DJ! (I hope that everyone understood that was a joke). Djehutynakht, thanks for your reply, I just want to make sure that you don't feel you are being treated unfairly by me (if I'm being obnoxious it's unintentional). For my read of DJ please refer to every other post I made in this game.

Dr Ug – In his first post he takes a strong stand on his reads and has not backed down on any of them. I think he’s town or very experienced scum and I won’t be able to tell the difference.

ElectricHaze – Minimal content. It bothers me that he pointed out he is not good at Day 1, as if he’s setting up an excuse to not contribute. However, he was away for the long holiday weekend so hopefully we will see some content from him soon.

flafec – Has about 14 hours before he is replaced.

frogman – Good content, I like him. He took a stand on me early and gave good reasons, and he was the first player to post an analysis of lynx’s content. I think he’s town, especially if lynx flips mafia.

lynx – I’m still not reading lynx’s attempt to move the game away from role PM discussion as a sure scum tell; he could just be trying to open the discussion to other topics. I’m undecided about in that I wouldn’t vote for him right now, but I wouldn’t argue against his lynch. I would like to see his response to some of the concerns raised about him, and will try to be more committal in my opinion after he posts.

moody7277 – Posted a list of reads last week and little content since. moody, I don’t like your reply to my question because the chronology doesn’t work out right.

My question
bessie wrote:
moody7277 wrote:bessie's DJ and Carlington votes look opportunistic. I think Carlington caught her out, so put him as one of the good guys, and her as scummy

moody, Carlington caught me out how? He voted with no explanation.


moody's reply
moody7277 wrote:
Carlington wrote:It's too early to have 2 votes on anyone yet, though, hence the unvote in this post.


That's what I interpreted as "catching you out", meaning the early bandwagoning on DJ. He said he was satisfied by your reaction when he poked you with a vote. Given that make two people I have townie reads on think your town, I probably should revise my opinion.


Timeline
1. Carlington votes for DJ with no explanation.
2. bessie questions Carlington’s vote and votes for DJ with no explanation.
3. Carlington switches his vote to bessie (with no explanation) and explains his vote on DJ. He also makes the quote referred to above.
4. bessie swithches her vote to Carlington, gives reasons.
5. Carlington unvotes, explains vote on bessie.
6. bessie makes three more posts without unvoting (lynx also votes for Carlington).
7. moody votes for bessie, gives the reason referred to in the first quote above.

I really don’t believe that I’m the one that looks opportunistic here. And as of the beginning of this post, I never moved my vote back on to DJ, even when he was leading the votals, though I have been attacking him the entire game. And you still haven’t answered this:
bessie wrote:And DJ, thank you for the links to Diemo’s games. I skimmed them but I still don’t quite understand moody’s reference. So moody, to which of the three games are you referring? What in particular in that game points to why Vytron thinks I’m town and you don’t?


Nebuduck – I just don’t know. More content please?

nolemonplease – They’re an experienced mafia player, but new to this forum, so I am very interested in seeing more content from them. What do you think of the discussion so far? Do you agree with frogman’s and Dr Ug’s analysis of lynx?

SPACKlick – A lot of content. I don’t have a question for you yet. More later.

Vytron – If he’s not town I’m screwed.

I'll try to get another post up tonight.

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Dr Ug
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:28 am UTC

Your analysis has made me think that if lynx is scum, my suspects for other scum would be moody, dimochka or ajh. I'll post reasons behind these thoughts when I have a chance to post a longer post. Just wanted to get this out there in case the wagon forms quickly.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Nebuduck » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:46 am UTC

Hey guys,

Sorry I've been a bit AWOL - been on a job hunt. I've found one now, and it doesn't start for a couple of weeks, so hopefully will be able to find more time.

Right, so, honestly I still don't have strong feelings about anyone. I think there's some very good arguments for lynching either DJ or lynx if we're getting close to some sort of deadline (either would be preferable to a NL - particularly given SL's statistical analysis), but I don't think they're necessarily scum. I do think lynching either of them will give more info - such as what sorts of power roles are out there.

At the moment, I think the biggest issue is that, despite it being a vanilla game, we're actually not sure what to expect. We don't know if there are any power roles (I think we strongly expect there to be some). We really don't know how vanilla it is at all. I think from that point of view, lynching someone who has been interesting (DJ or Lynx would count. Vytron has also been interesting, but I think that's his MO whatever he is) seems like a good shout, at least to work out what sorts of roles might be around.

So, I guess I would support a lynch of DJ OR lynx, but right now don't have a feeling on which. I think we'll learn a lot more after one kill.

By the way, here are my thoughts on what roles might be around. This is based on what roles I've seen in other games, the fact this is meant to be vanilla, and the fact that we think there are probably a couple of power roles around:

Almost certainly exist
Vanilla town
Vanilla scum

Probably exist
Cop
Doctor

Perhaps exist
Serial Killer
Vigilante

Probably don't exist
Role blocker
Mafia power roles (Godfather, mafia cop)
Masons

Almost certainly don't exist
Cult
Custom roles (e.g. the evil 'Vanilla bean weevil', who turns good beans bad, and makes bad beans worse...)

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Dr Ug
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:26 pm UTC

Nebuduck wrote:Almost certainly exist
Vanilla town
Vanilla scum
So you're claiming something other than vanilla town?
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Nebuduck » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:33 pm UTC

Dr Ug wrote:
Nebuduck wrote:Almost certainly exist
Vanilla town
Vanilla scum
So you're claiming something other than vanilla town?


When I first wrote that post, I wrote 'Definitely exist'. But then I thought that was too much like claiming Vanilla Town, so I thought I'd hedge my bets and say 'Almost Certainly'.

Make of it what you will. My thoughts are, If I were non-vanilla, I'd not want to draw attention to it, so I'd say 'Definitely exist'. But then if I were so sure, I'd be accused of trying to hide something. Which leads to Oh me yarm SUCH WINE.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby moody7277 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:24 pm UTC

@bessie: Here's my chronology on it

Vytron votes DJ for missing the vanillas reference
Vytron switched to SPACK
Carlington votes DJ (no reason)
bessie votes DJ based off "first impressions"
DJ points out "bandwagoning"
Carlington switches to voting bessie for the second vote on DJ
*this is what I was interpreting as "catching you out"*
bessie switches to voting Carlington, what to me looked like an OMGUS with some attempt at justification
SPACKlick votes bessie
Carlington unvotes, satisfied with bessie's response
SPACKlick apparently figures out the vanilla thing and switches to voting DJ

It was your vote on Carlington that I figured was bad looking. With the unfolding of the game since then, a lot has piled up on the other side. On your other question re the Diemo games, since the cat is out of the bag, the roles were ice cream flavors, which I'm assuming you and Vytron are saying is the case in this game also.

lynx posts:
Post 1- Nostalgia vote for Vytron, setup spec
Post 2- Suspicious of Carlington's testing votes, votes for Carlington
Post 3- bandwagoning not an issue, still suspicious of Carlington
Post 4- Suspicious of Vytron, DJ. few questions
Post 5- Answers SPACKlick on a couple of points, says Vyton is buddying DJ
This apparently shows that lynx is also unaware of the vanilla ice cream town PM, which is what he getting voted on for.
Post 6- Upset over the PM issue
Post 7- Vytron looks scummy, votes DJ
Post 8- semi-fluff

So, for the same reason as DJ lynx is not a VT, and since this issue broke he's gone dark while DJ is still posting. Looks a bit worse for lynx, so I'm gonna

Unvote

Vote: lynx
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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SPACKlick
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:31 pm UTC

Unvote

I'm in the middle of a detailed read through, should have a post in the next few hours although a major disaster has just landed on my desk so may be close to midnight before I can get back to this.

Wanted to register the unvote because several people seem incredibly scummy right now as well as DJ and Lynx's wrongness.

Also just noting from Moody's post
Moody7277 wrote:This apparently shows that lynx is also unaware of the vanilla ice cream town PM, which is what he getting voted on for.


Moody, why am I quoting this?

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby moody7277 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:54 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:
moody7277 wrote:This apparently shows that lynx is also unaware of the vanilla ice cream town PM, which is what he getting voted on for.


Moody, why am I quoting this?


Because you are a grammar pedant, and I ended that sentence with a preposition?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby frogman » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:18 pm UTC

bessie wrote:frogman – Good content, I like him.


Aww, I like you too <3

In my post about lynx, I noted that I think moody and lynx seemed to buddy up a bit. That was just a passing thought, but I think it has upgraded to "suspicion". I think moody's post looks like he's trying to distance himself from lynx, and then of course there's what Spacklick pointed out.

I'd be up for either a lynx or moody lynch at this point. Dr. Ug, I think your read on the scum team was pretty solid, although as I've said before I wouldn't support a DJ lynch today. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on ajh - the discussion on DJ I think I understand pretty well.

My vote's staying on lynx for now but I could be persuaded to switch to moody.
yeah yeah yeah

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby dimochka » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:54 pm UTC

I'd like to hear what makes me scummy. Meanwhile working on my post (may take a few hours since I'm also working).
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ElectricHaze
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby ElectricHaze » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:08 pm UTC

vote: SPACKlick

I read through the thread and you stick out to me. It seems like the major discussion is about the possibility of dj slipping up and might have a different role pm. Spack made the best argument I've seen from that discussion: The structure of that sentence makes it seems as though both factions likely got the same role pm except for the faction.

spack why did you abandon this position and vote dj? If he does have a different pm that makes him more likely to be an independent or town power role right? Do you think there are mafia power roles?
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Vytron » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:08 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:Spack must be town or all this whole conversation wouldn't make sense


I'm quoting myself because this is evident. Unless scum DID get a copy of the VT PMs, ElectricHaze looks pretty bad, so I'd go after him if lynx flips scum.

If lynx is a mislynch then this whole logic thread burns to death, we we'd get nothing...

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby RoadieRich » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:34 pm UTC

Suddenly, a red beam shoots down from above. It scans over everyone, beeping as it goes, then stops on one, making an almost sad sounding tone. Then faflec is plucked out from the freezer: he has passed his sell-by-date.

Faflec has been mod killed. He was Vanilla Town.

Votals:
SPACKlick (2): Djehutynakht, ElectricHaze
ajh (1): nolemonplease
lynx (4): frogman, Dr Ug, Carlington, moody7277
Carlington (1): bessie,
Djehutynakht (1): lynx
Moody7277 (1): vytron

15 players, 7 to lynch.


Or however he wants to spell his name: it wasn't correct in signups, so it doesn't make much difference.
Last edited by RoadieRich on Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby frogman » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:48 pm UTC

I hope this doesn't RUIN MATH
yeah yeah yeah

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby ElectricHaze » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:10 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:I'm quoting myself because this is evident. Unless scum DID get a copy of the VT PMs, ElectricHaze looks pretty bad, so I'd go after him if lynx flips scum.


I think spack was completely correct in his first observation that both sides got identical PMs except for one word.

So, if I assume that the role PMs for Vanilla Town and Vanilla Scum are nearly identical, and that is an assumption I'm pretty fine making from what I've seen so far. Then what does that make people who seem to have slipped up?

1. Mafia Power Role. Seems less likely in a vanilla game. Maybe a godfather?
2. Town Power Role. Cop/Doctor seem like possibilities in this setup.
3. Independent. SK, maybe.

It all depends on how you think the game was balanced. I think a cop or a doctor are most likely with a slightly larger scum team.

With that in mind Spack's reversal from town and mafia probably got the same PM, to he doesn't get it so he must be scum is questionable to me. It seems like he might have realized the most likely reason for not knowing the VT PM is PT and tried to switch positions and go that way. If there are town power roles in this game it is definitely in the mafia's best interest to remove them as fast as possible.

So, I would like to hear why spack HAS to be town for the convo to make sense, or from spack about why he decided that scum have a different PM afterall, and reversed his logic.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Vytron » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:17 pm UTC

Whoa.

Unvote

Vote: ElectricHaze


Because, it doesn't make any sense at all, unless ElectricHaze has access to the mafia role PM to compare.

Yeah, I think he has it, has made some assumption about what vanillas have, and it turns out that doesn't let him conclude Spack is town.

It seems mafia players were told they were vanilla mafia, and asked if they were awaiting something else. I had no idea about that until EH's reveal.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Nebuduck » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:47 pm UTC

I'm honestly... not sure if EH's argument makes sense. It seems like it's a pretty frenzied, thrown together argument, not hugely well thought through. But that might be because it was written in a rush (it certainly reads like it was)...

EH, could you put your argument in a more coherent fashion? Possibly step by step, so I can actually follow what you're thinking?

I think what you're saying is:
1) SPACK suggested that perhaps town and mafia PMs may be similar (just role name switched)
2) SPACK agreed with everyone else that DJ/lynx were suspicious because they clearly hadn't got the same role PM
3) 2 doesn't agree with SPACK's supposition in 1
4) Perhaps SPACK still believes 1, and thinks that power roles would have a completely different PM, and thus in pushing for a DJ/lynx lynch, is pushing for a power role lynch

EH, if that is your argument, I think there are some gaping holes in it. First off, 4 only works if SPACK was pretty certain that the suggestion in 1 was true. My recollection is that he suggested it as a hypothetical, as to why we shouldn't be so certain that 'Different PM => Mafia', but it wasn't necessarily what he thought to be the case. Additionally, if SPACK were certain enough in 1 that 4 made sense, he should also suspect that power roles were simply given the same PM, but edited.

I guess it feels to me like a hastily thrown together argument to target SPACK. It doesn't feel like it holds any water logically. And throwing together arguments like that seems like scum in a panic. My guess at the moment would be that DJ or lynx are scum with EH, and EH is trying to protect them somehow.

On the flip side, it could just be that EH is tired and busy having just returned from a holiday, so is not thinking things through. But for now, I'm assuming that's not the case.

Anyway, EH, if I've misrepresented your argument, apologies and please correct me. Otherwise, FOS EH

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby dimochka » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:11 pm UTC

RoadieRich wrote:15 players, 7 to lynch.

Is this correct? Shouldn't it be 8?
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby lynx » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:24 pm UTC

I was really busy this weekend and my partner just got back from a long trip. So I won't be able to catch up and make a proper post until tomorrow morning at the earliest. Sorry for my absence.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby ElectricHaze » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:09 am UTC

SPACKlick wrote:I don't see how Vytron answering what he expected being responded to with "absolutely genius deduction" implies Djehutynakht didn't receive the same one liner the rest of us did. I do see that mafia, if they did indeed get a different mail, which I doubt (honestly ignoring any potential power roles because I don't believe there are any, you could just swap town for mafia and the mail would work and I'm trusting Roadie Rich to have done that in particular with regards to the compound sentence structure of the first half of the PM) I can see bessie's move as trying to sow doubt on a difference they know exists..


SPACKlick wrote:Ok Bessie, I'm with you now. Djehutynakht doesn't know what he doesn't know and so is flapping a bit.

vote Djehutynakht

It'll take a lot to make me think otherwise.

ajh is being ajh, I never get a read there. Carlington is usually jumpy Day 1 but it's IGMEOY worthy for now. Still 3 lurkers.


This is what I was on about. The first post in regards to the structure of the PM made sense to me. Then 2 posts later is completely abandoning that to go with "he has a different PM, he must be scum, and it will take a lot to convince me otherwise." is a complete reversal in stance... I haven't been following the thread post for post because I was away all weekend, but that stood out to me on my read through, and I couldn't get it out of my head.

Nebuduck wrote:EH, if that is your argument, I think there are some gaping holes in it. First off, 4 only works if SPACK was pretty certain that the suggestion in 1 was true. My recollection is that he suggested it as a hypothetical, as to why we shouldn't be so certain that 'Different PM => Mafia', but it wasn't necessarily what he thought to be the case. Additionally, if SPACK were certain enough in 1 that 4 made sense, he should also suspect that power roles were simply given the same PM, but edited.


Maybe, which is why I asked for an explanation from him. Is that not what we do? Read the thread, find out who seems off, then vote for them and ask questions? This seemed like a quick reversal in stance to me, and maybe the stance taken in the first quote wasn't held very strongly, which is why I asked spack to explain his stance switch to me. I find it interesting that others are coming out to explain it for him.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:02 am UTC

Complete reversal of opinions isn't scummy. Actually, it's the other way around, because scum doesn't actually have reads, they have to fabricate them, so they use to stick with their fabricated reads and not change them.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:37 am UTC

Sorry all, busy day.

Djehutynakht will return to your regularly scheduled programming shortly.

(a.k.a. I'm probably gonna do in depth reads for Lynx, ElectricHaze, and those lurking in the shadows who quite honestly are usually the most promising prospects)

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby nolemonplease » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:22 am UTC

frogman wrote:It's also the third vote on a bandwagon - back in my day I remember people claiming that this was the most suspicious vote if there wasn't solid reasoning behind it. I don't put an incredible amount of stock into that, but it's something to consider.

This is a thing where I usually play, we call it "third vote theory", so interesting to see it crop up here. It has the some reputation by most there, not a whole lot of stock put into it.

bessie wrote:nolemonplease – They’re an experienced mafia player, but new to this forum, so I am very interested in seeing more content from them. What do you think of the discussion so far? Do you agree with frogman’s and Dr Ug’s analysis of lynx?

Just been kind of soaking it in. I just completed a slow reread. I liked Frogman's case on lynx, though I didn't agree with it. Unsure on Dr. Ug's case; I don't remember it actually. On lynx, I'm a bit torn. I liked some of his posts, and the not wanting to talk about PMs can be read lots of different ways; the scum way being sorta damning, but I'm not really ready to chase him down for that alone.

Who I don't want to see lynched today
Carlington
Vytron
bessie
SPACKlick
Nebuduck

The top three I'm genuinely reading as good at the moment. Spack is less tone read, more association read. I am also liking Nebuduck. I'm having a hard time reading DJ, but at the moment I'm doubting his scuminess.

Think I'd like to try a

Vote: moody7277

Not much of a reason to give, I'd consider this more of a feeler vote. I don't like my vote on ajh anymore, so I'm moving it to someone else to try to help form a read on.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:35 am UTC

So My long role analysis burned down. I started to build a case against carlington in my head yesterday, using posts from other threads and by other players or that didn't even exist because I'm a genius. I have done a slightly shorter re-read and response below. Sorry for no quotes, I've joined the 21st century and bought a smartphone which arrived yesterday hopefully quotes are in a colour. I have spent several hours going "Huh, why's it doing that? What? No, how do I make it stop"

I'm a believer in third vote theory to a certain degree. Mafia need to push wagons, 1 vote isn't a wagon, nor is 2 but once there are two votes there's enough momentum for a solid mafia push. It's pure psychology but as it's well known mafia avert 3rd voting spreading the density to 2 and 4 more.

Vytron, complete reversal of opinions can be scummy You can forget what opinions you gave, you can need to swing round on a new wagon. Since people are questioning it. I didn't and don't think that DJ's response to vytron was in itself either evidence of a different role PM or evidence of scumminess. I think Dj's response to Bessie showed both that DJ didn't get the same PM and that DJ isn't a town power role. A town power role wouldn't want to draw attention to their difference. This is where I swung on DJ, on new evidence. I'm still confident DJ is not town, I'm no longer sure DJ is the best vote.

I'm still not 100% sure that having the relevant part of the role PM makes you town, and I'm not sure that not having it makes you scum. For instance, let's take Moody.

" " "This apparently shows that lynx is also unaware of the vanilla ice cream town PM, which is what he getting voted on for."
Moody, why am I quoting this?"
Because you are a grammar pedant, and I ended that sentence with a preposition?"

I'd say this shows Moody doesn't know what moody doesn't know. It also looks like moody trying to look like vanilla town. Both !TownPRMoody and !ScumMoody would do this so we need to look at other posts. And I find little to be suspicious of. there.

I have to say I don't really get the Lynx wagon. Berates me for maths, Calls Carlington for being defensive, Then he asks Vytron why he thinks DJ isn't anti-town and vytron calls him clueless. He did then show he wasn't fully at pace with the rest of the game, then teased asking for a replacement. [Side note Moody does an analysis post where all he says about lynx is "been a while since I've been in a gaem with him"] Then lynx votes DJ no explanation. Then he makes a post I don't get "Cheeky bastards. But let's leave it at that before you jackasses manage to force a mass-claim." Frogman makes his case which seems IGMEOY worthy but not vote worthy. Carlington makes an odd swing from DJ to Lynx, Vytron follows, and then the dogpile starts. Have I missed something? Don't get me wrong. I think lynx is as dodgy as DJ just don't see the reason for the dogpile

Carlington, I don't like the defensive reaction and quick removal of a vote from DJ when Bessie joined. If DJ flips scum, I'll be eyeing Carlington. He also called himself scummy for using other peoples votes to scumhunt. And he wrote this "If I were a cop the mod, I would..."
Why? I spent ten minutes looking at this and can't work out why he would possibly post it. This is what started the spiral into an accusation. The he fished for Vytron or Bessie to claim PR. Also his really long detailed post where he votes to lynx (including the addendum) actually says very little and in it he says "let's not lynch DJ because reasons we should lynch lynx for the reasons I just said we shouldn't lynch DJ" which is really suspect. And on which he doesn't place a vote until the lynx swing gets some traction. I'm also bothered by his repeated claiming that people are "Confirmed Town".
Vytron Also caught him out as being not in the know, which combined with the above pings me hard.
Unvote
Vote Carlington


ElectricHaze gets some town points for questioning my position on DJ, I was surprised only DJ really called me on that.

A Vytron death would be very good for town information wise. I'm starting to think vytron might be an evil genius concocting this PM strategy as a !VanillaScumVytron.

Dr Ug Head says very towny play, gut says something's odd. Nothing stood out in the re-read though. I'll read closer after some alignment flips.

Nebuduck, why did you defend me against EH so vociferously?

Frogman, nothing ruins maths, maths ruins things. I model modkills as anonymous Day Vigs.

I hope this post shows up properly.

TL;DR, I think Carlington's scum, because he's made several weird postings outlined above. Scum is a higher priority than indy. So i've voted him.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Nebuduck » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:59 am UTC

ElectricHaze wrote:
SPACKlick wrote:I don't see how Vytron answering what he expected being responded to with "absolutely genius deduction" implies Djehutynakht didn't receive the same one liner the rest of us did. I do see that mafia, if they did indeed get a different mail, which I doubt (honestly ignoring any potential power roles because I don't believe there are any, you could just swap town for mafia and the mail would work and I'm trusting Roadie Rich to have done that in particular with regards to the compound sentence structure of the first half of the PM) I can see bessie's move as trying to sow doubt on a difference they know exists..


SPACKlick wrote:Ok Bessie, I'm with you now. Djehutynakht doesn't know what he doesn't know and so is flapping a bit.

vote Djehutynakht

It'll take a lot to make me think otherwise.

ajh is being ajh, I never get a read there. Carlington is usually jumpy Day 1 but it's IGMEOY worthy for now. Still 3 lurkers.


The first quote includes SL stating a hypothesis, clearly not a certainty. Over the next few posts, some information came out that disproved some aspect of the hypothesis for him (the hypothesis was that everyone had the one liner in the PM. Clearly, DJ didn't get that one-liner. So the hypothesis is clearly false). It's perfectly natural to then discard that hypothesis.

EH, I'm not coming out in favour of SL. I'm coming out in favour of well reasoned arguments. Poorly reasoned arguments are often a scum tell.

And, in fact...
Vote ElectricHaze
For bad reasoning.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Nebuduck » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:10 am UTC

Sorry SL, I didn't see your post there...

SPACKlick wrote:Nebuduck, why did you defend me against EH so vociferously?

I don't think your position change was actually that suspicious (as noted in previous post, it was a discarding of a hypothesis). I don't buy EH's argument one little bit, and it feels rather shoddily thrown together. So he gets a vote.

That doesn't mean I'm sure you're not scum. You could be scum. And if more scum tells come out that indicate you might be, the position-switching is definitely something I'll bear in mind. But for now, I don't think it's strong enough at all to merit the sort of weight EH has put on it.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:00 pm UTC

lynx's "let's stop talking about role PMs and start playing mafia or I'll ask to be replaced" is the worst thing I've seen a ll game. It's blackmail extortion, and out of place.

If Carlington is town then we'd lose a great townie after his death, so I'd really like to see other people flip before tackling his case.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:07 pm UTC

Votals:
SPACKlick (2): Djehutynakht, ElectricHaze
lynx (4): frogman, Dr Ug, Carlington, moody7277
Carlington (2): bessie, SPACKlick
Djehutynakht (1): lynx
ElectricHaze (2): vytron, Nebuduck
Moody7277 (1): nolemonplease


dimochka wrote:Is this correct? Shouldn't it be 8?

You are correct, my mistake.

15 players, 8 to lynch.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby moody7277 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:26 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:I'd say this shows Moody doesn't know what moody doesn't know.


Moody has, however, he thinks, figured out what Moody does not know, and it's something like this:

"Role: vanilla ice cream
You vanilla town. What did you expect?
You win when mafia have been eliminated"

based off Vytron's initial post and mod flavor. From subsequent posts, you will have seen that the set of [lynx, Djehutynakht, moody7277] did not have this PM, and so aren't VT. I'm assuming one sane cop and one doctor for town power roles, which means there is at least one scum in that set. If I could be sure it was two out of three, I'd say lynch the lot of us and cheer you on from the afterlife.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby ElectricHaze » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:12 pm UTC

Thank you for the explanation. That's exactly the part of the logic that was missing from your vote that pinged me. From your initial vote I got the reasoning that you thought he didn't get the PM, but not the part that made you think he was scum vs TP or something.

Unvote

Nebuduck wrote:But for now, I don't think it's strong enough at all to merit the sort of weight EH has put on it.


Again, I'm not sure what kind of weight you think I put on that was out of the ordinary. The switch seemed poorly explained in light of his first hypothesis about the role PM town and scum may have received. I put a vote up and asked him to explain, and got my explanation.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:36 pm UTC

Whoa.

Again.

Unvote

Vote: Moody


If moody was town he just posted his role PM, breaking rule 5. He's not getting modkilled so he didn't post his role PM. That's finally, concrete evidence.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby moody7277 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:26 pm UTC

That was just a guess based on extrapolation from observed facts, but your reaction would say I got it nearly verbatim. Kubrik had the same problem when he made the B-52 set for Dr Strangelove. More importantly, do you think scum would be that chirping stupid?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:33 pm UTC

I think scum could be a chirping genius and concoct a plan where they do that so we believe they must be town because only chirping stupid scum would do it.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:37 pm UTC

It's worth noting that at all times what DJ didn't know DJ didn't know and what Moody didn't know Moody didn't know were different things.

The above shows Moody knows what DJ doesn't know although it doesn't show Moody knows which bit moody doesn't know. IT doesn't show moody doesn't know what moody doesn't know.

Moody, you've confused me.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby moody7277 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:44 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:Moody, you've confused me.


Those last two posts have done me similarly. That's several gallons of wine in Vytron's post. Simplest option is to spill the wine by lynching the three people who through their posts have admitted to not knowing the VT PM. My preferred order is lynx D1, DJ D2, me D3. Compromise order would be lynx D1, me D2, DJ D3.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby RoadieRich » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:47 pm UTC

Votals:
SPACKlick (1): Djehutynakht
lynx (4): frogman, Dr Ug, Carlington, moody7277
Carlington (2): bessie, SPACKlick
Djehutynakht (1): lynx
ElectricHaze (1): Nebuduck
Moody7277 (2): nolemonplease, Vytron

15 players, 8 to lynch.

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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby dimochka » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:49 pm UTC

OK wait. No. Definitely not.

I am not saying moody is not suspicious, as a matter of fact I mentioned he was pinging me earlier. HOWEVER just because he posted this and does not have the vanilla town role PM does not take away from the fact that DJ and lynx don't have it either. Why did you decide that moody is scum yet DJ is PR?

I really wanted to type this with larger font but I'll try to be nice. I do believe Vytron is town based on essentially a game technicality. If this were not the case, believe me I'd have a solid vote oh him. Also unfortunately the PM issue is really making this game less enjoyable than I was hoping for it to be.

*deep breath*

Bessie - I have only seen you play one game, and in that game you were town. At the same time, it seems to me you're playing similarly, which is why I thought you were townie.

I want to hear Dr Ug's thoughts on why I'm scummy because I'm pretty sure my opinions have been pretty firm. I think our focus on DJ/lynx has been way too strong without any concrete evidence. Yes, I don't think they're town, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at other people.

My current thoughts:
non-town (including independent): lynx dj carlington moody
town: frogman bessie spacklick vytron nolemon ajh
unsure: dr ug (leaning town), nebu (leaning town), benm16 (leaning scum), EH (leaning scum)

Unfortunately don't have time to elaborate now because my computer crashed and post got deleted. Happy to address any one of these separately.

EBWOP: I'm happy to lynch any of you three in any order whatsoever because I don't think any of you are power roles. And by the way that's a big assumption we're making. We don't even know if there are power roles in game. It could be vanilla town and scum, unless I missed something. In which case we just found the three mafia.

EBWOP #2: Irrelevant but I'd be interested to see what Weiyaoli has to say. I can explain why I thought him scummy but I'd rather hear him first.
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Re: Vanillafia D1 - Blue moon with chocolate syrup.

Postby weiyaoli » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:01 pm UTC

Have not been following along, so will have to do a read through and come back tomorrow with stuff to say.
And you thought I was crazy...


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