Mafia Cave - Cave is destroyed (mafia win)

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mpolo
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby mpolo » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:47 pm UTC

Well, Amy is getting bored with the lack of movement here, so I had better check in.

I looked back at SirGabriel's "avoiding" interaction with moody, and I'm not really seeing it. He has one big analysis post, which devotes 3 lines to moody, which is above average there. There's only one more post that mentions moody, but the fact is that most of the other posts are responding to individual points, and moody was never really under discussion. As such, I don't see quite the level of linkage that Vytron posited, and which I kind of took for granted as true in my haste of not looking back.

So, then the question falls onto whether moody was specifically trying to save Diemo. So I need to look specifically at the case against Diemo, which I will hopefully be able to do tomorrow.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:17 am UTC

mpolo wrote:He has one big analysis post, which devotes 3 lines to moody, which is above average there.


What analysis post? I don't see anything but a summary post, that only tells us what Moody has done, but doesn't have any analysis.

In any case, eh, the case on Sir is weak, it's just that I didn't see better. But I'd be willing to vote with Sir against Madge, since her behavior at the beginning of the day was bizarre.

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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Diemo » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:51 pm UTC

Ok, lets get a post in.

Firstly, to the people saying that moody was trying to save me, he wasn't. he was trying (successfully) to kill power town.

So still alive we have:
Vytron - town
username5243 - town
Diemo - me
Carlington
Has been quiet, which is different from how he usually plays. He did say that he is trying to not give an info-dump at the start of the game. Overall talks about very few people - Me, frogman, dimMadgeka, RR and SirGab. Doesn't mention moody until after the flip. Currently neutral.

Suzaku - Suzaku is also suspicious as hell. He claims that he believes me about seeing the caver role PM, but goes on to say
Suzaku wrote:How did moody end up dead anyway?

Which shows that he has not seen the caver role PM. Why are you so sure that I have? FOS: Suzaku

diMadgeka
dimochka - Insistent that there was a difference between unrecruitable and uncultable - distancing from cult a little. Of course, this was all in response to Vytron's nonsense. I see what people mean about him focusing on Madge/Suzaku but I disagree. he saw something which looked suspicious, questioned it, admitted that it was probably nothing and replaced out. There is not much to go there.
Madge - Madge seems to understand what my role-pm gambit was, but also states that she is using information from her previous role, which makes me suspicious of her. Neutral but not my choice for lynch at the moment.

mpolo
mpolo is pretty suspicious to me. Mainly due to when he voted moody for trying to downplay cult. What was the point of that vote? it wasn't an actual serious vote, mpolo made no attempt to convince others of moody's scummyness. But it wasn't a joke vote either. To me, it smells like he was distancing from his scum buddy.

SirGabriel
Moody was trying to get SirG lynched. SirG gets townie points for that. So I would rather lynch mpolo.

Dr Ug
Was consistently suspicious of moody but didn't vote him. I can see why though - he made good aruments for his targets (Vytron for being cult and RR because it was a better lynch). townie

ElectricHaze
Oh. ElectricHaze is either a mason or scum. If he is a mason then moody was the fourth mason and I think the other three are likely town (I am getting this from here where ElectricHaze seems to think that moody is a mason). If he is not a mason then he needs to be voted for immediately.

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: mpolo
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:40 am UTC

Diemo - I want to be specific; I do not understand your role PM gambit. That completely went over my head. Something in my previous role has made me give you TINY townie points. However I take other peoples' words on the role PM thing and give you towniness based on THAT, and that far more than my previous role meta-gaming shit. I swear if the mod let me say it you'd all immediately forget about it because it's so irrelevant, and I regret bringing it up.

Vytron - I don't know how I missed moody being dead. It's not the first time I've had a brainfart and forgotten the night result. I think the moody -> diemo -> sirG weird vote triangle made me mix two of them up when I wrote that post.

So, let me get this straight: we're to believe that scum!moody wanted to kill PR!FB over town-nonPR!Diemo so badly that he logged on right before the lynch and changed the vote? Why would scum make that risk? Even if we assume it's a gambit - 'they'll lynch me tomorrow maybe, but i could talk my way out of it perhaps', what payoff is there? That we mislynch town-nonPR!Diemo after moody's flip?

I don't buy it. I feel like moody may have thought that come D3 with the lynch properly aligned, scum would be on the cusp of controlling the vote, otherwise that would be too risky.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:21 am UTC

I'm not sure where you get that I thought moody was a mason. I put him high up on my list of possible scum candidates, and wanted to lynch him or freezeblade.

I think the payoff might have been getting rid of a power role that could possible reverse another mislynch if there were 2x of that role, or it was a 2+ shot power. I don't think moody was expecting to be killed and it is possible they thought they could talk their way out of the vote switch. Risky gambit to be sure, but not out of the realm of possibility. It certainly makes Diemo look bad, but it is not quite damning.

The SirG argument is tenuous at best. The vote from moody doesn't strike me as trying to get them lynched so it could be a distancing thing, but it isn't much to go on.

We need to get more discussion going to clear up some of this stuff.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Suzaku » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:10 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:Suzaku - Suzaku is also suspicious as hell. He claims that he believes me about seeing the caver role PM, but goes on to say
Suzaku wrote:How did moody end up dead anyway?

Which shows that he has not seen the caver role PM. Why are you so sure that I have? FOS: Suzaku


So you think that a question designed to see whether people were going to come down on the side of vig or of SK (how everyone else, correctly, interpreted it) shows something about what I may or may not have seen? I'm not at all sure that I follow. I think you have seen it because of the way you described how you could 'prove' it. I still think that by the way, despite the flaky interpretation.

I also don't see anywhere that EH was pegging moody as a mason, so could you explain further?
On a re-read, I disagree completely that moody was trying to get SirG lynched. He threw out a weak vote:
Initially, moody wrote:SirG- Suzaku/Madge issue is more likely breadcrumb than sinister, originally joke voted Vytron, reads based around post counts, decides to vote mpolo between people who posted most, called out on it by Vytron, switches to voting Vytron. in general weird, but not sure if scummy

and later, he wrote:because I just had a "weird but can't tell situation" turn out to be scum.
And then proceeded never to mention him again.

I think Vytron's right, this is a scum dropping an early vote on another scum so a) they have a vote down, b) they can claim to have been 'on to them' early if they are eventually lynched, and c) they can easily move the vote off in case that avenue becomes more profitable.

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: SirGabriel

BTW, I also went back and looked at frogman's posts, but I can't see any clues there as to why scum might have killed him. If I had to guess, I'd say it was because he hadn't said much.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Diemo » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:50 pm UTC

ElectricHaze wrote:They had a vote on moody and switched to RR. After the modkill this move looks suspicious, as it defends a mason by voting for town.


Either they are a mason or scum.

:arrow: :arrow: Unvote: mpolo
:arrow: :arrow: Vote: ElectricHaze
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:16 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:mpolo
mpolo is pretty suspicious to me. Mainly due to when he voted moody for trying to downplay cult. What was the point of that vote? it wasn't an actual serious vote, mpolo made no attempt to convince others of moody's scummyness. But it wasn't a joke vote either. To me, it smells like he was distancing from his scum buddy.


Ultimately, the vote at that point was to gauge his reaction to what I considered a questionable assumption. It had the desired effect in that moody explained better his position on the existence of a cult. But it was not intended to start a wagon by any means at that point in the game.

I've been rather busy today, but will hopefully get back to this again a little bit later.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:54 pm UTC

I was hoping not to have to do this, but since it looks like I'll be lynched if I don't claim: I am the doctor. I protected Suzaku night 1 and Carlington night 2.

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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Sungura » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:28 pm UTC

Votals
3 - Sir Gabriel (Vytron, Dr Ug, suzaku)
1 - Madge (Carlington)
1 - ElectricHaze (diemo)

Wednesday afternoon/evening deadline still in effect.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:14 pm UTC

Ah I see the confusion. The lynch day1 was between Vytron and RR, as you may recall Vytron was claimed mason. I was saying that since RR flipped town after a modkill the vote looked like it may have been a scumplay because of the timing after Vytron's claim: by voting RR they could explain away the vote at any point by saying they didn't want to lynch the claimed mason.

I wasn't trying to say he was switching off of moody to save mason!moody, but I can see where that came from. I should've spent a little longer elaborating there.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Suzaku » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:44 pm UTC

:arrow: :arrow: Unvote: SirGabriel

Not sure I believe the claim, but provisionally unvoting the claimed Doctor.

@everyone - Counter-claim?

@SirGabriel - Why those targets?
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby SirGabriel » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:14 am UTC

Suzaku wrote:@SirGabriel - Why those targets?

I'm not very good at predicting mafia targets, so it was more or less random. Both of them seemed townie to me, and talkative townies seem like a likely scum target, so I went with them.

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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Sungura » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:13 am UTC

Votals
2 - Sir Gabriel (Vytron, Dr Ug)
1 - Madge (Carlington)
1 - ElectricHaze (diemo)

Wednesday afternoon/evening deadline still in effect.

mod prods have been sent to both carlington and username. Both will be mod killed at day's end if they have not posted. I know carlington posted and voted right after I started day but it will be seven real life days since a post and I'm sick of lurkers. If you aren't adding to discussion you're lurking.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Carlington » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:12 am UTC

Sungura wrote:...
Either way, they are stuck here until they figure out what is going on.

Given what we've been told previously about flavour text serving a purpose, I'm going to go ahead and call this a pretty big clue that something weird is going on here that we haven't figured out yet. By all means, we need to find scum (and quickly, the number of town and indie flips is too damn high), but I wouldn't be surprised if even after we wipe them out there's something else happening that's going to keep the game going until we figure it out, so we ought to be ready for that.

My views haven't changed too much since my last post, hence my staying mostly quiet. SG's claim is very interesting, but I have no reason to disbelieve it unless and until we see a counterclaim, so that's all fine as far as I'm concerned.
Madge still looks scummiest to me, still based off the end of yesterday/beginning of today, but backed up a little bit by the fact that Madge's response to me and responses to others on the same subject looked more like evasion and post-hoc justification than actual explanation to me.
Vytron and username are also sources of chagrin - they're both apparently confirmed town since yesterday with the mason claim, so we've left them well alone, but so has scum. The longer they survive as confirmed town, the stranger it seems, since why on earth wouldn't scum kill them?
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:57 am UTC

Haven't had a lot of time to spend on mafia this last week, but given SirG's claim (unless we get a counterclaim?) I'll

:arrow: :arrow: Unvote: SirGabriel

But also - SirGabriel, what is your rolename? If you're falseclaiming, this would be a harder thing to lie about than the role itself.

Madge was my second pick, and her flip will give us some information about both SirG and Diemo.

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Madge
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:36 pm UTC

I think the lynch on SirG was a bit weak to begin with, and with a doctor claim, 2 mislynches and so many town modkills it would be pretty unsafe to risk it unless someone has a more compelling reason than a weak connection with moody. We should revisit if they survive a night or two.

Dr Ug, if you want information on Madge, Diemo, SirG why vote Madge? Diemo was up for lynch yesterday, and was saved by moody's hammer vote. Surely that is more damning than some perceived connections between the players.

On the topic of Dr Ug they started the lynch on freezeblade yesterday, and if someone was making a distancing play the arguments on freezeblade and moody and picking freezeblade stink more of distancing than moody's vote on SirG.

Also
Dr Ug wrote:I think this is unlikely. Day 1, either scum have daychat, and don't need to talk in code, or they don't and haven't had a chance to set up such a code. If it was happening day 2 I'd be more on board with this idea.

Dr Ug wrote:This makes a bit more sense with the weird play of username. If mafia had daychat, Vytron could have coordinated this play with username, and perhaps as a newer player username is less able to pull it off.

I find the speculation on scum daychat odd. If you were thinking about chat you should have noticed that Vytron explicity stated that he was convinced by his mason buddy to make a full claim on day1. This is only possible if masons have daychat, which would imply that mafia likely have daychat as well, or be included in your thoughts from the second quote. Were you not paying attention because you already knew mafia had daychat, and were trying to skirt around it by continuing to frame it as a maybe?

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Dr Ug

I think this is enough for me.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby mpolo » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:54 pm UTC

ElectricHaze wrote:I find the speculation on scum daychat odd. If you were thinking about chat you should have noticed that Vytron explicity stated that he was convinced by his mason buddy to make a full claim on day1. This is only possible if masons have daychat, which would imply that mafia likely have daychat as well, or be included in your thoughts from the second quote. Were you not paying attention because you already knew mafia had daychat, and were trying to skirt around it by continuing to frame it as a maybe?


I have seen games where masons have daychat and mafia has nightchat, so it's not out of the question to question whether they have it or not. Which means that I'm not seeing anything particularly damning there for Dr Ug. Or have I misunderstood your argument?

Madge has certainly been erratic today, particularly in the early posts of the day. That much I remember without looking back. I want to review whether it's scummy erratic before I vote, though.

I suspect I will get a short comment in early tomorrow and a better analysis/vote after lunch, Europe time.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Vytron » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:15 pm UTC

:arrow: :arrow: Unvote: SirGabriel

Okay, Madge was my second highest suspicion as well, but Dr Ug is an interesting choice if they knew mafia has daychat as ElectricHaze.

I guess I want to know from Dr Ug, what would we learn about Sir and Diemo after Madge's flip?

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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Diemo » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:17 pm UTC

but Dr Ug is an interesting choice if they knew mafia has daychat as ElectricHaze.


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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Sungura » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:24 am UTC

Votals
1 - Sir Gabriel (ElectricHaze)
2 - Madge (Carlington, Dr Ug)
1 - ElectricHaze (diemo)
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:18 am UTC

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Dr Ug

Sungura, did you miss the votes for Dr Ug or are they not counted for some reason?

Personally I'd probably prefer a Diemo lynch over Dr Ug, but he has been weird lately.

That said if the votes for Dr Ug aren't counting then I'm not sure what the heck is happening.

Would also be very interested for SirG's role name.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Suzaku » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:44 am UTC

@Madge - I suspect because EH didn't Unvote first.

Reading through now, I'll be back before the end of my lunch break.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Suzaku » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:20 am UTC

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Madge

I'm sorry, but a vote out of basically nowhere on Dr Ug while saying in the same post that you'd prefer a Diemo lynch?
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:55 am UTC

I thought Dr Ug had two votes on him when I placed mine, so I didn't see much use in starting a 'new' wagon when I was leading the votals. Was a defensive vote, albeit misguided.

Madge wrote:Sungura, did you miss the votes for Dr Ug or are they not counted for some reason?


I'll keep it there for now but will move it to Diemo if people want to go down that road.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:57 am UTC

I'm pretty sure I hadn't voted at all today, but just to be sure.

:arrow: :arrow: Unvote: SirGabriel

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Dr Ug
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:55 am UTC

I guess this is my short post in the morning…

Electric Haze seems to be acting pretty townie.

Suspicion on Madge, but need to check my read of the day start.

The Dr Ug thing is kind of going over my head. We seem to be saying that simultaneously he is scummy because he seems know that Mafia has daychat and that at the same time it was logical that scum has daychat so it must be scummy to know that. Maybe I'm reading the argument wrong, but I don't see it.

The SirGabriel case is pretty non-existent, and now noone is voting either.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:23 pm UTC

I went back and looked at Madge. It is somewhat erratic, though not as bad as I remembered. I did notice that she made the assumption that scum has day and night chat long before Dr Ug did, so now I'm really wondering about her vote.

I have to vote, and I want to get some other stuff done this afternoon. Which means that I have to go with what I have. Hopefully I can come and revisit this, but at present I'm stuck with:

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Madge
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Sungura » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:11 pm UTC

Votals
4 - Madge (Carlington, Dr Ug, Suzaku, mpolo)
1 - ElectricHaze (diemo)
2 - Dr Ug (Madge, ElectricHaze)


If there is another on Ug I am not seeing it. People can revote. Make sure to unvote before you change vote.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Sungura » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:40 pm UTC

From the darkness emerged someone, holding a broken stal. They raised it up high and brought it crashing down into Madge's head. Blood splattered everywhere. In the ensuing chaos, they vanished into the shadows, innocently rejoining the group later.

Madge(dimocha) has been killed. She was a Gray Bat. Mason. Town.

Day three deadline extended until Monday evening.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Sungura » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:40 pm UTC

Votals
1 - ElectricHaze (diemo)
1 - Dr Ug (ElectricHaze)
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:57 pm UTC

I take it that was a vigilante kill, since we haven't seen a daykill up to now, and we had two deaths in one of the nights, and kills during the day are usually townie.

I need an explanation of the Dr Ug argument obviously, because so many people are going on about it, and I haven't comprehended the damning-ness.

Madge being mason explains her bringing up that scum likely has daychat earlier. Her being a mason is indirectly a point in favor of username who said that he, Vytron, and a couple of others were masons.

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ElectricHaze
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:04 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:I need an explanation of the Dr Ug argument obviously, because so many people are going on about it, and I haven't comprehended the damning-ness.


There are a few things.

1. They have mentioned the possibility of scum daychat a couple of times in the context of well maybe scum have daychat so.... When scum mention things about scum they always tend to place it in the maybe, or might be X as they do not want to reveal specific knowledge about scum that only scum would have.

If Dr Ug was seriously speculating and suspicious of scum daychat ability they should have picked up on Vytron claiming to have discussed their claim with their mason buddies and was encouraged to make a full claim. That specifically states masons have daychat, and instead of picking up on it Dr Ug doesn't notice and continues to frame the possibility of scum daychat as a maybe without factoring that in. Town Ug would have picked up on that, scum Ug may not have because they are not looking for information about scum, only attempting to frame townies and not give out scum tells.

2. Day 2 Vote gives analysis on freezeblade/moody Decides on freezeblade and votes. Starts a scumwagon on town and at the same time distances from moody. They other possibility here is that if there is a daykill vig that just took out madge, then SK targetting moody is more likely, and if that is the case it is possible Ug is the SK and was legit scum hunting with that post and trying to make themselves look good by lynching one and killing the other of freezeblade and moody in the hopes of hitting scum and winning cred. Eitherway it makes me think Ug is not town.

3. Ug has slowly been casting doubt against madge, and it seemed like this vote was inevitably coming from them. I think they wanted someone else to start the train, but put the lynch into motion after the doctor claim from SirG as a viable second option.

I do not think Ug is town for those reasons.

I'm not sure why madge was killed at vote lead. If it was one of the people voting madge and it was a 1shot I would suggest a claim. Otherwise keep it to yourself and know that likely everyone else voting there is probably scum.
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SirGabriel
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby SirGabriel » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

Sorry for the late post, the last few days have been busy.
I am a Pseudoscorpion.

FoS ElectricHaze

for saying that everyone on a wagon that happened to be on a townie is likely scum.
I would like to hear from whoever killed Madge - it seems like a very strange strategy whether the kill was from town or scum.

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ElectricHaze
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:47 pm UTC

It's simple.

Username, madge, vytron and I were masons. That leaves mpolo, you, dr ug, diemo, carlington and suzaku as possible scum.

I'm guessing 4 of you (with one of those being an SK, that's really the only thing that makes sense for the moody kill after the day kill, though it's possible there is a night vig and not an SK. I think it unlikely though)

I'm leaning towards Diemo being town, they've had some good posts and the hammer by moody on freezeblade seems a crime of opportunity to take out a power role, possibly bussing himself as vanilla scum, but making Diemo look scummy in the process. Good play, but Diemo has responded in such a manner to make me believe they are town, if they aren't then good job I'm completely fooled.

suzuku or mpolo are the day vig, and I'm leaning more towards suzaku, they've had some reasoned arguments and strike me as someone willing to daykill madge in that spot to clear up things and possibly get a better lynch today.

I think your doctor claim is a fake claim. Masons had immunity to all harmful actions N1 and there was a town Resurrecter. It doesn't fit with the setup to have a doctor when we all had immunity N1 anyhow, and the more powerful 1 or xshot res makes it more unlikely. It's still dangerous to lynch you though because if we do lose a doctor we are boned.

So that makes Dr Ug, SirG, Carlington, and whichever of suzaku or mpolo are not the vig the scum team + either an SK or night kill vig.

I've pitched most of these ideas to mason chat, but frustratingly enough no one was talking in there. So good job on spreading mistrust about masons people it made us not trust each other even though the wording of the role PMs really left no room for that outside of the mod flat out lying to us. It has been beyond frustrating to talk to my team mates only to be met by silence. Not to mention lurking and modkills ruining what I think would have otherwise been a very enjoyable setup.

This makes me a huge target, but whatever there is no point in not saying it at this point. Vytron, or username if they are even still participating could verify this. If Vytron doesn't as a former mason then there was in fact a cult and town are extra boned. As it is we are almost assuredly lost. GG lurkers. Scum MVPs.

/rant.
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Diemo
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Diemo » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:04 am UTC

:arrow: :arrow :Unvote (electrichaze)


Electrichaze has convinced me they are mason, likely town. Pending confirmation from Vytron.

Im willing to vote mpolo. Suzaku I need to check again, but I wouldn't be against a Suzaku lynch.

I think that the doctor claim is fake as well. Especially as vanilla town are only vanillaesque.

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Sir Gabriel
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Suzaku
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Suzaku » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:28 am UTC

EH is correct, I killed Madge (sorry Madge).

I picked up a loose stalactite yesterday, and hung on to it overnight.
Madge's vote on Dr Ug made me think she was scum, so I decided to use it.

Unfortunately I was wrong, but since it's likely she would have been mislynched anyway, I'd still argue that this result is better than that would have been.

I think EH is town and believe his mason claim. I also still think Diemo is town.

I'll be back this evening with further thoughts.
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:35 am UTC

I always dream of the day in which we get a game where there's a Serial Killer that can kill at day publicly, and I'm willing to pay the price right now, so I'm going to treat Suzaku as confirmed Vigilante.

I can confirm ElectricHaze was in the group, though I disagree with their certainty that everyone in the group is town, let me check it again...

Oh, yeah, Sungura mentions that everyone in the group is a mason, but she never says everyone is town. Mason and Town are two different things, and specifically, the whole point of a Mason Traitor is that nobody knows about it. If, say, username5243 was a traitor, I'd not be very surprised, they wanted to mislynch me anyway,

I don't understand ElectricHaze's rant, I stayed silent in the daychat, not because I didn't trust them, but because I didn't have anything to say, and I think this was the main reason other people were quiet.

:arrow: :arrow: Vote: Diemo

Was it that yesterday we had two trains on two town? What happened with all the suspicion people had on Diemo, did it vanish?

He has jumped all over the place, first voting mpolo for some weird suspicion related to cult, then he jumped on ElectricHaze, a Mason, and now he claims Sir's claim is false, I don't understand why Sir can only be vanilla or scum, but not doctor.

This was today!

All the reasoning for voting Diemo yesterday is still there.

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ElectricHaze
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby ElectricHaze » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:47 am UTC

Vytron wrote:Was it that yesterday we had two trains on two town? What happened with all the suspicion people had on Diemo, did it vanish?


I believe it was you that said it was likely a two town trainwreck. Moody had stated earlier on that day they were fine with the Diemo lynch. It was only after a power claim (and quite the powerful power claim) was made that moody jumped in to ensure a freezeblade lynch.

Diemo meanwhile has posted and consistently jumped around in a manner that suggests they are thinking, if not making the best of conclusions. Nothing about their play implies to me that they are making any of the coordinated moves that would come from a scum team that likely has daychat since masons do as well.

Vytron wrote:ElectricHaze, a Mason, and now he claims Sir's claim is false, I don't understand why Sir can only be vanilla or scum, but not doctor.


I made the argument that SirG's claim is false. You can read that post. It's up there with the rant, you of all people should have the relevant information as well. I don't think there is room for a standard doctor with the mason setup and the power roles we've seen, but as I said I think it is too risky to vote there. If SirG is a doctor then scum have to take care of it with this few players, because the only way we are pulling off a town win at this point imo is some damn fine doctoring.

Vytron wrote:Oh, yeah, Sungura mentions that everyone in the group is a mason, but she never says everyone is town. Mason and Town are two different things, and specifically, the whole point of a Mason Traitor is that nobody knows about it. If, say, username5243 was a traitor, I'd not be very surprised, they wanted to mislynch me anyway,


Not that it matters to the game, but true. My argument is that we were all CCed on that same single PM. I could give the argument for a traitor merit if we were all sent separate PMs with that wording. A PM that says you are Town and has everyone else listed as a recipient of that same PM is different than a PM that says you are town and these people are masons with you. The former I feel would stretch the boundaries of mod honesty to include a traitor.

Vytron wrote:I don't understand ElectricHaze's rant, I stayed silent in the daychat, not because I didn't trust them, but because I didn't have anything to say, and I think this was the main reason other people were quiet.


It's true, but you at least followed through in the thread with things that were said in the chat. From N1 on the only response to anything I said in the chat was basically I don't trust any of you. That was the reason for the rant.

Vytron wrote:Probably a vigilante. You... er, we are welcome?

I agree with Carlington on Madge, I'd not mind seeing her lynched, I thought she was a better lynch yesterday, and FB agreed with me. But my consternation comes from she missing Moody's death. If she didn't miss it, things would be different, so probably it's better to lynch Sir first.

Definitively, lynch Madge if Sir is scum.

Also, you knew madge was mason at this point, and you lend credence to Carlington and Ugs suspicions and they go and start a wagon on madge and you don't put them at the top of your scum list?
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Re: Mafia Cave - Day 3 - flowstone of blood

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:27 am UTC

ElectricHaze wrote:Not that it matters to the game, but true. My argument is that we were all CCed on that same single PM. I could give the argument for a traitor merit if we were all sent separate PMs with that wording.


Ah, I had never considered that.

I don't like that the possibility of a traitor is nullified by forum mechanics instead of for what actually happens in the game, but indeed, that we all got the same PM, and this was common knowledge, is very strong evidence that a traitor doesn't exist.

:arrow: :arrow: Unvote: Diemo
:arrow: :arrow: Vote: SirGabriel


So, yeah, I've been convinced town would be way too overpowered with a doctor, and there's two reasons to make the false claim:

1 - Other than saving yourself, if somehow you have concluded there's high chance of the absence of a doctor, it's a good claim to make because you won't get counter-claimed.

2 - If you ARE counterclaimed, at least the real doctor spoke up, and was revealed.

In any case, if Sir IS the doctor, AND Diemo is scum, I'll blame EH for all this :P

As for the business with Madge, I blame the game's length, because I had forgotten that she was replacing dimochka, so I didn't treat her as dimochka...

How did we even get the train on Madge to form? If we were going to claim that we were masons with Madge, we should have claimed it before she got shot by a vig or lynched :roll:


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