Once Upon a Mafia - Game Over

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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:17 am UTC

Let them safe claim. What do I care? How would it benefit scum? That's what I'd like to know.
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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:16 am UTC

Because not all good characters are human, but most important characters are. Scum might be looking to kill Emma for example, the main protagonist who could be pretty powerful. We dont want to give scum an idea of who is powerful and who isnt.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:25 am UTC

Plus, its not always clear if a character is human or not. There are two worlds in the series: in storybrooke everyone is human i think. If someone claims ' not sure if i'm human' that gives even more info.

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mpolo
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby mpolo » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:55 am UTC

If we think that Pinocchio might be a lie detector, it might be worth giving him some material to work with. For instance, I could say, "I am town". "I am not scum". "I am not independent."

As a couple of people have stated, I'm not sure whether a mass-human claim is useful. Of course, we also don't know if there's a species cop around, either, so that "covering" a possible species miller may or may not have been necessary for SDK (assuming he's telling the truth).

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:46 pm UTC

I don’t have time for a long post but I want to get this in before mpolo leaves for the weekend.
mpolo wrote:If we think that Pinocchio might be a lie detector, it might be worth giving him some material to work with. For instance, I could say, "I am town". "I am not scum". "I am not independent."

So, why don’t you?

I am town.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:32 pm UTC

Chances are that Pinocchio is not even in this game, but sure why not. I am town.

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mpolo
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby mpolo » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

In case what I said before doesn't count:

I am town.

I am not scum.

I am not independent.

We had a student injure himself, so I will probably be online over the weekend after all (I have to bring him to the doctor tomorrow, skipping the little trip we had planned…)
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Vytron » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:26 pm UTC

Wait, what is the idea? This alien Pinocchio's nose would grow up when someone else lies? That'd be odd.

Also, I want to mention that I claimed first :P

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:15 am UTC

So we're doing the lie detector thing then. Ok, whatever. If people missed it, I previously stated that I was town. If that's not adequate:

I am town.

I am not scum.

I am not independent.

While I don't put much stock in the whole lie detector thing, I'll note that as far as I can tell, Vytron's only claim was "no indie shenanigans here". That's pretty different than "I am town".

Anyways, I was doing a reread, Vytron's statement that "whenever [SDK] puts his votes on town is because he's scum himself and panics because he can't really bus his buddies" jumped out at me as weird. SDK does not strike me as the panicking type or someone that would have any trouble bussing. Others have said it, but those two's interactions this game are just weird. Right now, I feel like SPACKlick's speculation about their being a scum pair is entirely plausible.

I'm not sure I'm seeing much else that strikes me as truly notable. I think that Lawrencelot's observation that a humanity claim is as likely to help identify power roles as anything else is well taken. dim's being quite helpful, which I appreciate, but don't know that I should read too much into. I will say that I parsed Madge's reference to her fiance's girlfriend as "friend of her rl fiance's who happens to be a girl", so I'm not sure there's much to go on there.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:18 am UTC

EBWOP: That should be "Vytron's only direct claim". He has made passive references to himself as town. And his point about it being odd if Pinocchio could detect other people's lies is well-taken.

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Madge
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Madge » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:53 am UTC

This lie detector thing is stupid. We're going to get so side tracked and everyone's going to post their little list of statements that is ultimately probably meaningless, and everyone's going to look good for saying something townie. I mean it's D1 so there's not much else to go on, so whatever.

I am town.

I am not scum.

I am not independent.

I do not have any sort of access any sort of kill, except for the lynch.

In a past game I was SDK's scummate and I remember him specifically saying that he doesn't like to bus because it very rarely helps prove towniness.

@JudeMorrigan (but all may read this is just irrelevant to the game)
Spoiler:
JudeMorrigan wrote: I will say that I parsed Madge's reference to her fiance's girlfriend as "friend of her rl fiance's who happens to be a girl", so I'm not sure there's much to go on there.

Nope I have a boyfriend and a fiance and my fiance has an additional girlfriend in addition to me who has a wife and also a long-term live in partner (I'm Carp in the diagram here). I also like to over-share details of my personal life in a way that other people don't seem to. Who knows, maybe one day I'll use that fact to breadcrumb something; but not today.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:16 am UTC

That's cool. I hadn't meant to seem prying if I did - mainly I just wanted to say that I hadnt thought it was a game-slip.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:17 am UTC

Oh, and maybe I'm just missing information through never having played as scum with ask. Fair enough.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby dimochka » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:20 am UTC

I didn't actually think that it was something scummy. Definitely in the category of RVS (random vote slinging, I think?)

I am town.
I am not scum.
I am not independent.

@Madge - why the post about the lack of kill? Seems somewhat random...

Unvote

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Madge
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Madge » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:29 am UTC

Figured if I was going to do a stupid lie detector thing I may as well go all out. *shrug*.
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SPACKlick
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SPACKlick » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:54 am UTC

I am town.
I am not scum.
I am not independent.
I am not in a house.
I am not with a mouse.
I am not here or there.
I am not anywhere.
I am not green eggs and ham
I am not Sam-I-am


Put the above joke in quotes in case it messes with the lie detector but it was in my head and I had to say it. Don't see a lot to go on so far

Mod I'm moving house this weekend so there's a good chance I break my laptop, router, modem or self If I do I will get someone to confirm my lack of internet somehow.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby bessie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:03 am UTC

Sorry I’ve been having a bit of trouble making that promised long post. I thought I would have a glorious night all to myself but band practice was canceled, so of course my husband wanted to go out and watch a band. Consequently I have been listening to live jazz all night. Here’s the best I can do for now.

Most important things first: mpolo, hope your student is OK, good luck at the doctor.

BenM16, is your vote for Vytron random or serious?

SDK wants to do a mass humanity claim, and he’s being a bit aggressive about it. I agree with Lawrencelot’s reasoning that this would help scum more, and I can think of some ways where this would help an anti-town independent. It would help narrow the field if we have a lyncher or another role that has a kill for a certain person (I’m not sure if there is a special name for this role or if I just forgot what it is). So SDK, you have the answer to your question "How would it benefit scum?" (although I think you already knew the answer to that question). My question for you is how would it benefit town?

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby BenM16 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am UTC

I am town. (I think)
I am not scum. (Though u might be)
I am not independent. (Well, In some ways I am)
Bessie, my vote was serious, if he is serious in voting SDK over nothing but that's ok.
(BTW, i was technically first to claim with my YEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! in the confirmation but oh well)
ANY claiming really by anyone day 1 would be entirely useless except for the mafia so pls no go on that.
@Bessie.. how would a mass humanity claim help SDK anyway bc almost everyone but 1 person is human....

Either Vytron and SDK are both scum... or they both really like calling each other scum..

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SPACKlick » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:53 am UTC

BenM16 wrote:I am town. (I think)
I am not scum. (Though u might be)
I am not independent. (Well, In some ways I am)

unvote
vote BenM16


Claim properly or not at all

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mpolo
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby mpolo » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:30 am UTC

So the student is wearing a huge orthopedic boot, but didn't need an operation, so all is good there.

I don't want to distract from real scumhunting with the lie-detector thing. I just saw it in somebody's speculation and figured that if we can turn a lie detector into a cop, we should do so.

I don't like the parenthetical comments on BenM16's statements, as they would likely make a lie detector useless and add unnecessary wine if there is none. One vote at this stage is probably enough, though.
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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:56 pm UTC

bessie wrote:SDK wants to do a mass humanity claim, and he’s being a bit aggressive about it. I agree with Lawrencelot’s reasoning that this would help scum more, and I can think of some ways where this would help an anti-town independent. It would help narrow the field if we have a lyncher or another role that has a kill for a certain person (I’m not sure if there is a special name for this role or if I just forgot what it is). So SDK, you have the answer to your question "How would it benefit scum?" (although I think you already knew the answer to that question). My question for you is how would it benefit town?

I don't think that really benefits scum at all. We were all guaranteed a power role in this game. If what Lawrencelot says is true (that most of the town would be human) then being scared that they might try to pick off specific humans (Emma) is dumb. Everyone they target will be a PR anyway. They will have gained a tiny amount of info.

The benefit to town is that most of the antagonists are nonhuman. I have no doubt that at least one of the scum is human, just as I have no doubt (obviously) that some of the town is nonhuman. Still good to narrow the pool. I also have reason to believe, from the wording of my own role PM, that race will play a role in this game. That leads me to the possibility of something like a race cop. If one exists (or something similar exists), a race claim is suddenly a huge boon to the town. Again, let the scum false claim if they've got 'em. Setting them up for the chance to be caught in a lie is far more important than protecting Emma among the 7 (?) town on speculation that she might be powerful.
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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:56 pm UTC

Oh yeah.

I am town. I'm not scum. I'm not independant.

Sure.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Vytron » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

I am town. I'm not scum. I'm not independent. I agree with Madge this is stupid and am willing to go after the person that came with the idea, unless they're a lie detector.

I might be jumping on BenM16 soon, because they have basically claimed non-town/semiindie whatever.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby bessie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:42 pm UTC

BenM16 wrote: @Bessie.. how would a mass humanity claim help SDK anyway bc almost everyone but 1 person is human....

BenM16 – I think you’re on the wrong track. Human is not necessarily an indicator of town, and non-human is not necessarily an indicator of non-town. And we’ve had two players so far claim to be non-human and town.

SDK - Copy paste above, change BenM16 to SDK.
SDK wrote:The benefit to town is that most of the antagonists are nonhuman.

What leads you to believe this? You (soft) claimed to be flavorblind and discussion in this thread leads me to believe otherwise. You may be correct but I’m not seeing it from just reading the Wikipedia page. Can someone who has actually watched the show chime in here or point me to some succinct reading material (I don’t have time to watch any episodes)?

Interesting how you respond to Lawrencelot’s reasons for not claiming human because it would benefit mafia, but not to my concerns that it would benefit an anti-town independent. I think you are role fishing and looking for a specific person.

FOS: SDK

Because it’s too early for anyone to be halfway to the hammer.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:57 pm UTC

How would it help an anti-town independant more than the scum? Or are you thinking we have a lyncher/hitman? I guess that's possible. Good point, actually. A 10 player game would most commonly be 7-2-1, maybe 8-2, so there is a good chance we've got something else going on. I just always assume it's an SK or Survivor until I see otherwise.

I actually haven't done my own research yet on the story. That comment was based on dimochka's list. Maleficent, Ursula and The Dark One are nonhuman and evil, and there are a bunch of humans who are apparently sometimes good and sometimes evil. Again, based on my role PM, I expect race to have some impact on alignment.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Lawrencelot » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:30 pm UTC

I've watched the series but it's been a long time. After reading some wikipedia, here's who I think could be scum.

Code: Select all

Character        In this game?   Scum (if in the game)?
Regina           Yes             Maybe
Rumplestiltskin  Yes             Maybe
Captain Hook     Probably        Maybe
Peter Pan        Maybe           Yes
Cora             Maybe           Yes
Zelena           Maybe           Yes
Walsh            No              Maybe


All these characters are human I think. These are some scum team possibilities (not all of them work together):
-Regina and Rumplestiltskin
-Regina and Cora
-Cora and Zelena
-Capt Hook and Cora
-Capt Hook, Cora and Zelena
-Peter Pan and Rumplestiltskin
-Peter Pan or Zelena alone
But I'd need to watch everything again if I wanted to be sure. And the mod might not follow the plot.

Now, what's more useful, here's my scumlist of players, from scum to town
-SDK (wanting people to claim, weird interaction with Vytron)
-BenM16 (weird claims)
-Vytron (being Vytron)
-bessie (neutral)
-mpolo (neutral)
-JudeMorrigan (neutral)
-Madge (townie feel)
-SpackClick (townie feel)
-dimochka (helps town)
-Lawrencelot

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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:03 pm UTC

Hey Vytron, do you have a rebuttal for this post? Do you still think I'm scum? Elaborate either way.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:04 pm UTC

Please.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Vytron » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:35 am UTC

1) That strategy doesn't work, especially here at xkcd. Have you ever noticed that people here don't take previous reads into account at all?


This is wine, if a strategy is bad then it doesn't mean you wouldn't use it, or that scum wouldn't use it. The strategy exists, and only scum would use it, so "the strategy is bad" doesn't make you town.

2) If I wanted to gain town cred after your death, there are better ways to go about it. For one thing, if I successfull stopped you from being lynched, that means you'd have to die to my own mafia nightkill, making that town cred 100% WIFOM.


Better strategies also doesn't mean you're town, you couldn't have thought about this recently after already going with the other plan.

3) Can you name a single game where I didn't call someone town in the first couple pages? I guess I also can't name a single game where you didn't call me scum in the first couple pages either, so...


Show me a game where you tell X to "leave Y alone." This is like the policeman that tells people to leave the defenseless child alone. Only makes sense if you know I'm innocent. In this case, town.

And this goes on and on, this asking me about my elaboration and even the overdoing it with the extra post saying "please", is addressing me as if you know I was town.

I guess you could claim that the strategy doesn't work anymore after your actions, and that would be true, but if I die and flip town people wouldn't suspect you're scum anymore, either, so this could be preventive damage repair.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:33 am UTC

Deadline in four days. Deadline clock

10 alive, 6 votes to hammer

Current votals:
SDK (2) - Vytron, Lawrencelot
Vytron (1) - BenM16
SPACKlick (1) - SDK
BenM16 (1) - SPACKlick

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby BenM16 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:05 am UTC

Have no idea why everyone is bandwaggoning on me but the things in brackets were just complete jokes....
Here we go again
I am TOWN
I am NOT scum
I am NOT independent
@Bessie, exactly.. any sort of race claims wouldn't really help anybody so why are we doing them??
@Spacklick... obviously that's a joke
@Vytron.. and everyone... You don't have to say they my pronoun choice is something male like he
For maf roles... Cora and Regina would be the most obvious choices I would think
Captian hook is at this point bordering on town so he seems out of the question butttt...
Most obvious choice for a third party would have to be Rumplestiltskin, but these are all if Gabriel followed the plot pretty closely.
SDK wrote:Oh yeah.

I am town. I'm not scum. I'm not independant.

Sure.

That was a really bad type of claim for someone who pushed really hard for us to claim.
Unvote
Vote:SDK

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Vytron » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:40 am UTC

BenM16 wrote:@Vytron.. and everyone... You don't have to say they my pronoun choice is something male like he


If you care about what gender pronoun people use for you, use the location box and/or signature to let people know.

Sorry for using a gender neutral pronoun for you... I guess...

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby BenM16 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:42 am UTC

Vytron Lol that's absolutely fine with me... just didn't want other people to feel put off or anything.
Cheers :D

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby mpolo » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:03 am UTC

There's also a tread here for pronouns (not that I always remember to look…)

I am satisfied with Ben's now giving straight answers (I wouldn't have called it a bandwagon, since everybody was holding off from voting to see if you were going to stand by the possibly fishy post, rather than voting you and putting you in danger of being lynched.)

I'm a little bit at a loss as to what to talk about here. The most interesting thing going on is the Vytron/SDK interaction, but I honestly have no feel of how to read it. Each makes good points, but then they are equally well rebutted. I do think that we at least consider voting record after a lynch (to SDK's first point), but probably not as much as we should.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SPACKlick » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:19 am UTC

Unvote
I'm now happy with BenM16's claim I will hopefully have time for reads tomorrow but I'm mostly here to confirm I didn't break my laptop moving house.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby SDK » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:16 pm UTC

Ben: What was bad about it? When did I push it? What do you think of Vytron and who do you think is town or scum?
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Vytron » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:42 pm UTC

Unvote

Vote: SDK

For emphasis.

He asks questions and doesn't follow them up, or explains why he asked them, or why are them useful, or how are those questions helping him identify scum. He's actively lurking.

I guess I could wait until Ben answers all his questions and SDK is quiet about it, but this is already a big scumtell.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:47 am UTC

BenM16 – My earlier question and comment to you wasn’t an accusation, and I didn’t mean for you to take it that way. I’ve never played real life mafia before, so I don’t know how you’re used to playing. I think your vote on SDK is a little weak, because he wasn’t the one pushing for the lie detector claim. Can you give us your reads on some of the other players?

SDK – Wait, what?
SDK wrote:How would it help an anti-town independant more than the scum? Or are you thinking we have a lyncher/hitman? I guess that's possible. Good point, actually.

Yes, I did suggest we had a lyncher or an independent with a specific target. I already discussed it in two posts, the first of which you quoted (so you couldn’t have missed it) but didn’t answer, and the second in which I accused you of being that person. And I don’t like the way you keep implying that you didn’t think of this yourself. You have a lot more experience playing mafia that I do. I really doubt that there is any idea that I can have that you haven’t already considered. If we have a jester in this game I think it is SDK.

I have been thinking a lot about this earlier post by Lawrencelot.
Lawrencelot wrote:Plus, its not always clear if a character is human or not. There are two worlds in the series: in storybrooke everyone is human i think. If someone claims ' not sure if i'm human' that gives even more info.

I’m beginning to think that race/humanity might actually play a part in this game, but I don’t agree with SDK that it has an impact on alignment. I’m not sure how though. Possibly some kind of resurrection power? Like maybe you have to kill a non-human in the correct world (maybe determined by game day) for the kill to be permanent.

Vytron – Your vote/unvote makes you third on SDK’s bandwagon. Is this important?

I’m working on my complete list of player reads. More later.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:19 am UTC

bessie wrote:Vytron – Your vote/unvote makes you third on SDK’s bandwagon. Is this important?


I was already voting SDK, my vote/unvote does nothing but emphasize it (and, hey, it works if you didn't know I was voting him.)

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby mpolo » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:02 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I’m beginning to think that race/humanity might actually play a part in this game, but I don’t agree with SDK that it has an impact on alignment. I’m not sure how though. Possibly some kind of resurrection power? Like maybe you have to kill a non-human in the correct world (maybe determined by game day) for the kill to be permanent.


I'm not seeing this at all, except trying to extrapolate from SDK thinking it was important for some reason. I would not have thought to try to make such a claim unless there was something in my role that indicated it was important, which makes me wonder a bit. But not enough to try to come up with a mechanic from 0 data points. :) But I suppose that a lot of things are possible given the possibility of the dead returning in some form.
Image <-- Evil experiment


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