Once Upon a Mafia - Game Over

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Lawrencelot » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:49 pm UTC

Vytron self-voting --> trying to look like town!Vytron but failing, at least for me. I already think SDK is scum, and he does not give good arguments about anyone else being scum.

Spacklick seems to be the first one to notice I voted SDK without giving a reason. Maybe others noticed but didn't care, or they thought it was a random vote? I'd like some reactions here.
SDK, what did you think about my vote for you on page 1?

SPACKlick wrote:Also the way madge phrased her claim about not having control over a kill seemed off to me, like she might have a kill she doesn't have control over. Little thing that no-one seems to have hilighted.

Good catch. I've seen the phrase and thought it was off but I didn't interpret it this way. However, the conclusion should be that Madge is town, for flavour reasons that I won't point out.

Lawrencelot Have you been following peoples Town/Indie/Scum claims, did everyone make one that satisfied you?

You mean the lie detector thing? I've read them as they came by, I did not check whether everyone has claimed and won't do so because I don't have time for it and I think it's useless anyway (but not harmful).
I only claimed I'm town, if anyone wants more lie detector sentences from me please ask.

Please grill me I am online all/most of the day today and tomorrow. I have keen for this game, I swear.

If Vytron flips scum, who is his scumpartner? Same for SDK. I think they are the most likely scum but I have trouble drawing conclusions from their interactions with other players, since there aren't that many.

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SPACKlick
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:56 pm UTC

I very much see a Vytron/SDK team as a possibility. So the question becomes was vytron bussing Bessie inexpertly or is the third person from outside the team? I think Madge has some scum assets and Ben could be N00bScum.

However by memory SDK mentions lurkers and hasn't mentioned Dim so Dim could well be the other scum partner. I'd need to look at more from them to confirm it because of how quiet they've been.

On your blank vote, I was viewing you as pretty scummy early on but your later posts pulled it back a fair way which is why I didn't push it.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby dimochka » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:58 pm UTC

SDK's humanity claim - not comfortable with it. We're not sure what the mechanics is, whereas scum or a lyncher may know something like this. So I would rather not. It also helps narrow down people's roles, ESPECIALLY in subsequent days when there are more flips.

BenM16 wrote:I am town. (I think)
I am not scum. (Though u might be)
I am not independent. (Well, In some ways I am)
Bessie, my vote was serious, if he is serious in voting SDK over nothing but that's ok.
(BTW, i was technically first to claim with my YEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! in the confirmation but oh well)
ANY claiming really by anyone day 1 would be entirely useless except for the mafia so pls no go on that.
@Bessie.. how would a mass humanity claim help SDK anyway bc almost everyone but 1 person is human....
This post is annoying but nothing I'm getting worked up over. Also to answer the question - there are many roles that could be non-human, but even with one role, it's something I don't know the effect of and rather not have it be detrimental to us.

Just to make it clear - I think humanity might matter somehow, but I don't think it will define alignment. I don't have any information about how humanity matters though.

Now here's what pings me about Vytron. He seems to grab on to things that I found to be quite inconsequential. For example his decision to label BenM16 as indie/non-town. I personally thought his original post was there because he was trying to be funny rather than pointing himself out as an indie.

SDK feels to be like non-town, but not necessarily part of a scum team. More of a hunch based on his interaction with Vytron and his push for the humanity claim. On that note I also disagree with Spacklick that they're a scum pair.

@Bessie - was the question about Vytron being 3rd on the vote to SDK serious? I don't see how this matters... That's a strange question in my eyes.

@Spacklick - Ben's post I quoted about does not make me suspect him. Let me analyze the posts:
Spoiler:
1. "Yessss" - obviously nothing there
2. Spec on setup, votes one of the two people fighting (vytron)
3. Does the semi-alignment-claim thing, against claims on D1, unsure about the humanity claim. Thinks SDK/Vytron are both scum (a bit of a change from previous post)
4. Addresses people's posts about his semi-claim and role specs, then votes SDK
5. irrelevant, re: genders
6. This is the post where it looks like there's a lot of content. However - part one is again setup spec (which seems strange to me and way too high, unless he knows something we don't, though unlikely). Then he analyzes SDK as third party, and gives summaries of others (which while helpful in one place, don't add much). What I do like is an opinion on Bessie, though I'd like a bit more clarity on the reasoning
7. irrelevant (what is pinging)
8. This I like. He actually states an opinion about SDK and doesn't want to mislynch. Random thought he may be scummates with Vytron.
So I think he's more likely to be town than scum. Especially as a new player I think he's making a good effort. If this were someone who played with us for a long time, I'd suspect that his analyses were too cursory on purpose.

@Lawrencelot - other than your last post about Vytron, I don't feel like there's much content from you. Do you still think Ben is scum? Why? Is it solely constrained to his replies to mpolo? Why am I townie? All I did is post role-related data and a joke vote on madge.

I'm not done yet, I just need to step away for an hour. I will have more thoughts a bit later today. Right now I'm happy to vote for either of Vytron/SDK. I will post a town/scum list in my next post today. And likely vote.

Oh whoever brought up Jester - If one of these guys is a Jester, it hinders our game because we would waste a lynch, but a jester is also not town and is there to confuse people, so it's not as bad as lynching a townie. Getting rid of a lot of wine is important. And I would expect the mod not to make a 10-person game where one mislynch results in LYLO. With that being said, I'd of course prefer to lynch scum.

EBWOP: Didn't read through Lawrencelot's new post so what I said about his thoughts may be irrelevant. Or Spacklick's.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:00 pm UTC

BenM16 wrote:SDK I gave reasons for posting u in my previous rundown post but I'll make it clear here... I mainly voted you because.of your first post where u claimed, thereby 'pushing' claiming.

That's not what you said. What I want to know is 1) What was wrong with the way I claimed for the lie detector, 2) What me pushing for a humanity claim has to do with that, and now 3) Why you didn't vote me before, when I was actually pushing for a humanity claim?

BenM16 wrote:I don't like at all this bandwagon on Vytron even if he is scum because SDK has wanted this since the first post and I'm reading SDK as a 3rd party, maybe even lyncher.

I haven't wanted that since the first post. I typically start the game by voting someone at random, or semi-random to get something going. My first vote on Vytron had nothing to do with the fact that he's scum, and I actually was reading him as town by the end of page 1.

BenM16 wrote:If their is a lie detector could they please out it if they.have scum tells from something?

What does this mean? What are you asking for here?

BenM16 wrote:I'm opposed to a mislynch D1 but if that's what u think is best than I guess vytron is a good choice, but I'm just afraid of it ending up on D2 a 3-3-1 situation or 3-2-2. Please think carefully about your votes. What aspects of the game.am I the newbie.missing?

Are you actually a newbie? This game is most likely either 7-2, 7-2-1 or 7-3, . In a 10 player game it's very unlikely that we have four scum. If there are four nontown, at least one of them won't be able to hurt us (like a Survivor or something).

Can you give an updated scum list, please? Again, your fear that Vytron is town doesn't really make sense since it looks like you actually think he's scum. Who would you rather lynch? If you say me (and do believe I'm 3rd party), then who do you think is mafia?
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:06 pm UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:SDK, what did you think about my vote for you on page 1?

I thought it was a real vote. I wasn't that concerned though since I figured I could explain both my rationale for asking for a humanity claim as well as explain my actions re: Vytron when it came down to it. The way you voted was also not a concern since that post (along with your follow-up) felt townie.

What did you expect me to do in response to that vote? It's not like my goal is to never get voted - sometimes it's exactly the opposite!
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:24 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:SDK is odd, I'm thinking independent but with how hard he and vytron went at it I wouldn't be surprised if there was alignment there. I mean there were lots of posts poking Vytron unnecessarily. SDK went hard after me last time we were scum together and it worked well. IGMEOY

Did the bolded actually happen? I was scum with you in Occult Mafia, and was super buddy buddy with you. I think that was our only game together?

SPACKlick wrote:SDK asked if role PM's would be revealed on death. I found this a slightly odd question as it would be unusual to do so. However with SDK putting so much emphasis on how their role PM emphasised race I think one explanation would be that SDK was trying to work out how much of their lying would be undone on death. Just a thought.

I was asking because I was curious if everyone would get the information I have following my own death.

I like the rest of your big post, for the most part. Still uncomfortable about how hard you've apparently tied me to Vytron in your head.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:47 pm UTC

I've not tied you and vytron hard. Vytron seems very scummy. You seem a little off. It wouldn't surprise me if you and vytron were aligned and finger pointing to cause distance.

As for whether us going at it hammer and tongs as mafia buddies happened. You're right. I was mistaken, we went off on eachother a little in Chaos (I was town, can't remember what you were) but it was my first game and I wasn't used to you. Then in Occult I used that as an excuse to vote you several times early days and other people commented on our interaction a fair bit. In my memory that was a longer two sided affair. It worked though.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:08 pm UTC

It definitely did work. Our interactions that game were excellent. :highfive:
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby bessie » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:04 pm UTC

Quick post before work. I’m sorry if I miss any questions, I’m going to start reading at my last post and look for things that stick out to me. I will address the rest tonight. I may have a busy work week because an NC with a short deadline landed in my lap yesterday.

Vytron - I was pushing Vytron for his reasons for focusing on and voting for SDK, and at the time I made the post where I voted for him, I thought SDK and Vytron might be scumbuddies. Vytron’s unvote/vote SDK gave me a slight feeling that maybe he was actually looking for a reason to move his vote off SDK, so I thought I would push him a little and he voted for me, which was pretty much what I thought he would do.

JudeMorrigan – Thanks for the list. I didn’t mean that you should leave out the commentary; it in fact makes your list better! What I didn’t want was a list with groupings, like “this group feels townie,” and “I have no read on this group, so neutral.” An ordered list forces you to make an evaluation on everyone, even if it’s only in relation to everyone else. Your content had been very neutral at that point. Now that SPACKlick has posted more content, can you expand your read on him a bit?

Vytron – Did the other thing I thought he would do, voted for himself once a wagon started to form. Note that Vytron’s self vote is third on his wagon.

SPACKlick wrote:Yeah I have low content at the moment. I've just quit my job and am moving 200 miles to start a law degree.

:D !

This is all I have time for right now, more tonight.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - confirmation phase

Postby Lawrencelot » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:31 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:@Lawrencelot - other than your last post about Vytron, I don't feel like there's much content from you. Do you still think Ben is scum? Why? Is it solely constrained to his replies to mpolo? Why am I townie? All I did is post role-related data and a joke vote on madge.

Ben is looking better. At least, he looks more like newbie town rather than newbie scum, although he could be faking everything. He doesn't have strong ties with any of the scummier players so he's just neutral for me now. You were townie because on page 1 you made a helpful post, which is as good as it gets on page 1. Now we are two pages further and nothing happened, so relatively speaking you've become less townie for me.

SDK wrote:What did you expect me to do in response to that vote? It's not like my goal is to never get voted - sometimes it's exactly the opposite!

The vote was baseless. If you were town, I'd expect you to at least ask why I was voting you. If you were scum, I'd expect you to do this too while freaking out inside. Interestingly enough, it seems you did neither, but I think it makes more sense to ignore it as scum.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:40 pm UTC

Huh, that's interesting. Looking back at page 1, do you really see no reason to vote for me? That was where I was actually trying to be scummy, to a small extent at least. I assumed that's why you voted.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Madge » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:07 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:Just double checking these two statements were meant as true in the positive.
Madge wrote:I am in some way able to influence a kill other than the lynch, whether it is by performing it, directing someone else to perform it.

I have some form of day/nightchat with someone who I believe is in some way able to influence a kill other than the lynch, whether it is by performing it, directing someone else to perform it.


In which case, That's a weird thing to claim and you confuse me. I can't see why !scumMadge, !IndyMadge or !MasonVigMadge would claim that....


No, those are meant to come up as lies - they are not claims.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:36 am UTC

SPACKlick wrote:Vytron. Give us an "If I were scum I'd say..." and "If I were town I'd say..." set of final words.


I have no idea what would I said as scum. Heh, I guess I'd like advice from my scum self since I tend to live longer with that. Seems as scum I'm more wary about being on a team with people counting on me to not be lynched and help them out, but as town I think I can win anyway after the mislynch, so I'm not really worried about my death.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby bessie » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:37 am UTC

Some more reads, with some opinions.

Madge – still not a lot stands out to me about her posts except maybe this observation:
Madge wrote:One of these days when I have unlimited time I will go back through games and see what Vytron and SDK look like as scum so I have something to compare them to because they are both so aggressive in their playstyle it makes it hard to determine what they're actually doing behind it all. Without seeing a scummy pattern of behaviour such as eg SDK pushing lots of townie lynches or Vytron suggesting a target, and then joining the bandwagon after it has taken traction, it's hard to work out whether they're being helpful or not - to an extent it really does depend on the results they produce for us.

followed by a vote for dimochka. The comment gives me the feeling that Madge is looking for an excuse not to lynch one at least one of Vytron or SDK. The vote on dimochka reinforces the feeling that she is protecting a scumbuddy. But there is a peculiar truth to this comment also (especially the last line), so I note it for now. Madge is not my scummiest pick at the moment but I will take a closer look at her if either Vytron or SDK filp scum.

Madge’s personal life, all may read
Spoiler:
Planning an actual wedding, how interesting and fun! Big, lots of guests? Boring old me got married at a place with a neon sign and a drive through window. At least I have my fossils. But seriously, congrats!

SDK - A couple things. This:
SDK wrote:I would have replied to that directly, but SPACKlick jumped in and gave me the opportunity to push Vytron a little further while simultaneously getting a read on SPACKlick since that Vytron vote really didn't jive with what I've come to expect from SPACK (more on that later).

Did you ever come back to your read on SPACKlick based on this? I can’t seem to find it but maybe I missed it somewhere.

And this reply to me:
SDK wrote:Did you? I'm sorry. I was a bit rushed with this game last week. I probably skimmed over that since I know I have good reason to believe what I do, so I focused on the scum aspect. Despite having a lot of experience with this game, I don't think of everything, and even if I do, I don't give every thought the same weight. Hitman/lyncher type roles are cool enough, but I think I've only played three games total with either of them involved. I'm not going to assume that's the case when that's the only real downside to doing something that seems beneficial otherwise.

I'm going to drop this push, though. Lawrencelot's list marks it clear that we could well have an all-human scum team. Makes me curious why it's such an important point of my role PM, but we'll see what happens. I didn't think Rumplestiltskin would have been human at the very least.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this. While I am not ready to support a mass humanity claim, I will say that my race (human, non human, cricket, puppet, or something else) is mentioned in my role PM, but I have no reason to believe it is related to my alignment. But just because I don’t see it doesn’t mean that there isn’t some importance to race in this game. I will be willing to discuss this more tomorrow after we have at least one flip and we see what SirGabriel reveals. Oh, and I think you probably think of almost everything.

Vytron – As SDK pointed out, I do love my summary lists! The one at the top of page three wasn’t my finest, but I didn’t have a lot to go on, and I wanted to include everyone. Really, my substandard list shouldn’t be taken as a sure scum tell. I believe my finest lists as a mafia player were in Smalltown Mafia, and I was scum. I think most of my content in that game was player analysis lists.

SPACKlick – Your spoilered data dump has been incredibly interesting to me. I actually found it quite useful to see what you pick out as important in each post.
SPACKlick wrote: Bessie, given everyone is a PR have there been things you've wanted to say but haven't to try and protect town PR?

Yes.

Oh, am I supposed to discuss this too? Ok, well, refer to my comments to SDK above re humanity. I was very against discussing this at first because I believed that it was role fishing by an independent with a target. But he has been so insistent that this is somehow important that I have thought about it a lot. And I’m beginning to think that there may be something important there for town too (still not convinced that SDK is town, but that doesn’t mean that this isn’t important for town). I threw out an idea on Page 2 about how some races could only be permanently killed on certain days, and this was ignored by everyone but mpolo, and I let it go because I realized that I was setting up the role fishing for which I was faulting SDK. But like I stated earlier, I think I want to return to this tomorrow after we see what SirGabriel reveals in the flip.

SPACKlick, may I ask you the same question?

I have to quit here, at the end of page three. I will get to page four (and any additional pages) tomorrow.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby BenM16 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:55 am UTC

The comment gives me the feeling that Madge is looking for an excuse not to lynch one at least one of Vytron or SDK. The vote on dimochka reinforces the feeling that she is protecting a scumbuddy. But there is a peculiar truth to this comment also (especially the last line), so I note it for now. Madge is not my scummiest pick at the moment but I will take a closer look at her if either Vytron or SDK filp scum.

Agreed.
First off, I would just like to apologize for my being in New Zealand as my time zone is 16 hours ahead of yours, so I might be a little off with the timing of posts. Secondly, I am sadly gone this weekend (my friday to monday) on vacation so I won't be able to post till then.
For all those who call me that, yes I am a newbie, for this is my first time ever playing forum mafia.

Speculations about the game- In a normal 10 player game with maybe 2-3 town power roles it would be quite usual to see a 7-2-1 situation or 7-3. This game though is a game based on a tv series with many villians, plus we are promised that each player will be special in a certain way or PR. Going by what could be true think about this... 2 scum and 2 indie's or 3 scum and 1 indie would probally do 2 night kills. (even if it was 7-3 I am still expecting about 2 night kills) This means,... any mislynch today could leave us with a 3-2-2 or 3-3-1, which would be a disaster. If it was a 7-3 game then it would still be a quite hard game with a 5-3 turn out where the maf all know each other.....

My Lie detector comment- How does the lie detector work? Sorry but I thought it meant we claimed town and then the lie detector would be told by mod who lied,... but I guess that can't be it because it is way too overpowered... sorry about that

Questions- Lawrencelot can you define "nothing happened"?

SDK- So why did u vote Vytron if u read him as town? Just the way you said it made me suspicous with the way you said it.
SDK wrote:Huh, that's interesting. Looking back at page 1, do you really see no reason to vote for me? That was where I was actually trying to be scummy, to a small extent at least. I assumed that's why you voted.

Your pushing humanity claim has nothing to do with my vote on you, sorry if that got mixed up somehow. I didn't vote you before because I was a newbie and wasn't really sure what was going on , though u and Vytron both seemed scummy so I went Vytron.

Reads.......

Madge-
Madge wrote:I'm confused as to what I haven't weighed in on? Am I meant to come down on a side with respect to the scumminess of Vytron / SDK? Or is there something else I'm missing.

I think Vytron's sudden buddying of my suspicion on dimochka is very worrying, so I am putting SDK as townier than Vytron fwiw.

Anyway will hopefully have time to post tonight, but at the moment I don't know what people are concerned I've missed.

Seems truly confused, but when we spend a whole day where we are voting between SDK and vytron, it doesn't make sense like bessie said why she would random vote dimochka...
like bessie said staying away form a buss maybe...

Mpolo- Hasn't said much or done scum reads apart form saying his dislike of SDK and Vytron and my scumminess. Says he's very busy and requested a deadline so it will be interesting to see his reads.

SPACKlick- To answer your question I don't like it, but i'll talk more about it D2. You seem to have acted as the most towny person in this whole game so far so congrats, I don't have much on you.

Lawrencelot- Has given us a nice list of people in the show... and is against claiming. Thinks Vytron and SDK are both scum, but isn't solely focusing on them. The second most townie player in my books.

Bessie- I don't really like the reasons they gives for voting Vytron but heh Vytron is a good vote choice. Has given us a lot of reads (which I might disagree with a little) and has probally contributed the most to everything D1.

Dimochka- Hasn't said much this day, given a player list and said some reads... thought it is a little weird that SPACKlick posts he might be scum and then he instantly posts reads...

more in a little bit

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby mpolo » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:34 pm UTC

As time seems to be running out again (we start our school year rather late, and this is the first week…), at least some general comments:

SDK: I am in general fairly comfortable with him at this point. SpackLick said that he had said that the race claim is relevant per his role, which is at least interesting. Since this is providing me with information I would otherwise not have, it's actually kind of townie, I would think. (checks PM) while I presume to know my race, the PM doesn't say anything specific about it, so yes, it was unknown information.

Madge: Her "lie detector" statements are giving me a headache. I'm almost sorry I brought it up. Were all three statements in that last post supposed to be false, or only the first two? Otherwise, seems to be solidly participating and seeking leads.

Vytron: looking fairly jestery or scummy. I don't see how to reconcile the statements and actions there with being town. Of course, Vytron does love to vote for himself as town because he thinks it proves that he must have been right about everything he thought on Day 1. Which logic I do not really follow.

SpackLick: rather active and generally looking good

Ben: some throwaway lines that sound funny, but generally looking more townie as the day progresses.

bessie: I was pretty happy with the participation and reads lists, then Vytron claimed they were vacuous. I have to try to go back and see why, but that's not happening in the next couple of minutes.

Lawrencelot: Pretty solidly townie

Dimochka: very little (but it was announced in advance). I haven't looked through the reads there in detail.

more later…
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:59 pm UTC

bessie wrote:The comment gives me the feeling that Madge is looking for an excuse not to lynch one at least one of Vytron or SDK.

Exactly my feeling as well.

bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:I would have replied to that directly, but SPACKlick jumped in and gave me the opportunity to push Vytron a little further while simultaneously getting a read on SPACKlick since that Vytron vote really didn't jive with what I've come to expect from SPACK (more on that later).

Did you ever come back to your read on SPACKlick based on this? I can’t seem to find it but maybe I missed it somewhere.

Hmm, sort of. At the time I read SPACK as Vytron's most likely buddy, but that shifted to Madge over the course of my read, so I didn't give it the same attention I'd intended to at the time. I mentioned it in my reads summary, "Uncharacteristically low content and early game action (his vote on Vytron was bad, especially when he ignored my defense of Vytron)" meaning that his Vytron vote and ignoring my response struck me as very uncharacteristic for townSPACK. That's pretty all there is to it anyway.



Ben, answer my questions directly. Your story is all over the map. You voted for me apparently based on my claim. Then you talk a bit about me pushing for a humanity claim. Then you confirm that you voted me "because of [my] first post where {I} claimed, thereby 'pushing' claiming". Now you say that the "humanity claim has nothing to do with [your] vote on [me]". Just give me a strait, detailed answer on why you voted (and continue to vote).

BenM16 wrote:SDK- So why did u vote Vytron if u read him as town? Just the way you said it made me suspicous with the way you said it.

I'm not sure what you're reading, but it ain't this game.

Oh, wait, you're talking about my page 1 comment. Yes, I was reading Vytron as town. Then he made this post followed by this post followed by this post. I already talked about that in detail.

What made you suspicious? Can you link to the post you're talking about there?



mpolo wrote:bessie: I was pretty happy with the participation and reads lists, then Vytron claimed they were vacuous. I have to try to go back and see why, but that's not happening in the next couple of minutes.

Go ahead and check for yourself, but they are not vacuous. Exactly three of them are, which happen to be the three Vytron chose to quote.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Lawrencelot » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:02 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Vytron – Did the other thing I thought he would do, voted for himself once a wagon started to form. Note that Vytron’s self vote is third on his wagon.

Oh yeah, forgot about this but I wanted to say good job noticing this. It happened on an earlier wagon as well. Just in case:

Unvote
Vote: SDK


Unvote
Vote: Vytron


SDK wrote:Huh, that's interesting. Looking back at page 1, do you really see no reason to vote for me? That was where I was actually trying to be scummy, to a small extent at least. I assumed that's why you voted.

Only the 'letter from the scumteam'.

Ben wrote:Questions- Lawrencelot can you define "nothing happened"?

dimochka had not posted anything since his post on page 1, that's what I meant.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:28 pm UTC

Deadline in approximately 35.5 hours. Deadline clock

10 alive, 6 votes to hammer

Current votals:
SDK (1) - BenM16
Vytron (4) - bessie, Vytron, SDK, Lawrencelot

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:42 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
SPACKlick wrote: Bessie, given everyone is a PR have there been things you've wanted to say but haven't to try and protect town PR?
SPACKlick, may I ask you the same question?
Yes. There are things I want to push with some players but I feel it would be more likely to out town PR than Scum. I've even redacted part of my answer to this question.
BenM16 wrote:To answer your question I don't like it, but i'll talk more about it D2.
Bad answer. Bad Bad answer. For reference the question was about the interaction between Vytron and Bessie. And there's no response? No reads? It doesn't affect how you're voting?
Madge wrote:
SPACKlick wrote:Just double checking these two statements were meant as true in the positive.
No, those are meant to come up as lies - they are not claims.
Madge please make a post entirely consisting of
Madges future post wrote:I am town
I am not scum
I am not independent
With no quotes and no other content or my vote is on you tomorrow and will not leave

By the way. Madge-Vytron scum team so blatantly a thing. It's almost like madge is acting shady to get lynched. Which would mean Vytron is scum Power role. Wouldn't be surprised in BenM16 is scum with the amount they're confusing themselves over trying to vote SDK.

With not long left in the day and to hammer my flag to the mast, I'm not against making my position clear.
Vote Vytron

By the way What is the current vote order on Vytron? [first time votes is SDK, SPACKlick, BenM16, Bessie, Lawrence, Vytron] [current stack I make (1)Bessie, (2)Vytron, (3)SDK, (4)Lawrencelot (5) SPACKlick] Do we think Vytron's need to be third on the wagon is a role power or a bizarre tell where he's trying to actively look scummy to get lynched?

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:06 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:Do we think Vytron's need to be third on the wagon is a role power or a bizarre tell where he's trying to actively look scummy to get lynched?

If it's anything it's a role power. I'm guessing it's nothing, but worth avoiding anyway.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:32 pm UTC

Okay, looks like I'm getting lynched so I'll make a last list of thoughts for people to go back to read after my town flip:

I'm feeling better about bessie. From the posts she made that SDK quoted, I saw that she only mentioned people she had something important to say about, and made a long list that included everyone whenever she had something to say about everyone. In her list she just summaries without much to say about the summaries, but I guess it could be explained if she was on a hurry, and recently she had gone back to normal bessie (you can compare her last post to the one where she voted me and note the difference.) So I'm no longer sure about my reads on her.

BenM16 has sunk down in my towndar... apologizing for being in New Zealand? That looks like a desperate attempt to become likeable. He has wishy-washy explanations for his behavior, and asks questions about things that happened early in the game that aren't relevant now. He's looking pretty bad and if I wasn't advocating a self-lynch (because, I've lived this before, if I'm not lynched now people will Vytron-focus D2 and that'll be a big distraction) I'd be voting him.

mpolo looks townish and I agree in general with their reads.

I don't find Madge suspicious or shady, so I don't see why Spack is finding her so suspicious, I usually jump over Madge whenever she seems shaky.

Also, while we have pretty much nothing on Dim, please note we don't have much on JudeMorrigan, a player that successfully has managed to avoid analysis and suspicion, so I wouldn't be surprised by a SDK+BenM16+JM scumteam, though SDK is all over Ben, so if the latter is scum SDK might actually be wrong about me instead of being scum himself :P

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:40 pm UTC

Thanks for the post. In case you flip scum I'm posting a translation

Vytron wrote:Nothing to see here
wine wine wine
nothing to see here


Also note I asked you for this before and you didn't say anything. So I suspect your reason for doing it is to protect someone in your scum team.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:54 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:I wouldn't be surprised by a SDK+BenM16+JM scumteam, though SDK is all over Ben, so if the latter is scum SDK might actually be wrong about me instead of being scum himself :P

Whether or not you flip scum, can we at least take this as proof that your self-vote strategy is awful in general? This is the third scum team you've proposed since your self-vote, covering 6 of the 10 players, and now there's even the chance that I'm town. Things change. Reads are wrong. Lynching yourself to validate your reads is useless. I suspect you realise this and just use it as a gimmick, but now at least I'll have something to point to if you ever try it again.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby bessie » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:29 pm UTC

Some brief comments before work. I am only halfway through the page.

Lawrencelot wrote:Spacklick seems to be the first one to notice I voted SDK without giving a reason. Maybe others noticed but didn't care, or they thought it was a random vote? I'd like some reactions here.

I really thought it was a random vote. My earlier interpretations of the votes on page 1:
SDK makes a random vote for Vytron
Vytron makes a retaliatory vote on SDK
SPACKlick makes a probable random vote for Vytron
SDK votes for SPACKlick to provoke a reaction
Lawrencelot makes a random vote for SDK
BenM16 makes a random vote for Vytron
Bessie makes a statement that she doesn’t do random voting
Dimochka makes a semi serious vote for Madge.
Random voting ends here.

I’m not seeing why SDK thought Lawrencelot’s vote was a real vote and not a random vote. It was his first post, contained little content, and gave no reasons for the vote. There isn’t even a mention of SDK anywhere else I that post.

I really like this reply. I’m quoting it just because I like it. And I might want to remember it later.
Lawrencelot wrote:The vote was baseless. If you were town, I'd expect you to at least ask why I was voting you. If you were scum, I'd expect you to do this too while freaking out inside. Interestingly enough, it seems you did neither, but I think it makes more sense to ignore it as scum.


dimochka – I think I agree with most of his latest post.
dimochka wrote:@Bessie - was the question about Vytron being 3rd on the vote to SDK serious? I don't see how this matters... That's a strange question in my eyes.

Vytron’s unvote/revote SDK was odd. I wanted him to talk about it. Three possibilities:
1. This did nothing but emphasize his vote because he thinks SDK is scum (this was the option Vytron claimed).
2. He wanted to emphasize his vote so someone else jumps in with an opinion, and he can fish for an excuse to move his vote.
3. He has some weird power related to his vote, or being third on a wagon (he’s currently third on his own wagon).

SDK – I have noted the following:
SDK wrote:I was asking because I was curious if everyone would get the information I have following my own death.


preedit: Vytron's not third on the wagon any more. I only had time to skim today's content.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:49 pm UTC

SDK wrote:I suspect you realise this and just use it as a gimmick, but now at least I'll have something to point to if you ever try it again.


No, as I said, the reason to get mislynched now is to avoid being a distraction tomorrow, it has happened that the next day I'm mislynched anyway, but the game focuses around me, which is worse then being mislynched D1.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Madge » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:15 pm UTC

I don't have much time but I'll post Spack's lie detector statements since I can apparently be threatened into anything :roll: . I noticed they didn't have full stops at the end of them, so I will do the rare coveted deliberate triple post to have a version that also has full stops, just in case people later get worried that all three are technically one statement and can't be lie detectored by the lie detector we probably don't have.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Madge » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:16 pm UTC

I am town
I am not scum
I am not independent
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Madge » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:16 pm UTC

I am town.
I am not scum.
I am not independent.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby JudeMorrigan » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:40 am UTC

I'm sorry I haven't been around. I haven't been feeling well and my brain has pretty much turned to mush. I do want to be contributing though, so here are some general impressions on the last couple of pages:

I like SPACKlick's content since he's had time to start posting more. There are some relatively mild points of disagreement (I'm skeptical the vote order thing actually matters, for example), but I like his analysis overall.

There has been an obvious shift in SDK's tone and approach, from a purely visceral standpoint, it *feels* like townie-SDK shifting to the next phase of his D1 play. That said, while this is true of how I would treat other players in general, I'll be keeping an especially close eye on him going forward.

Ben is generally looking worse to me. He seems to be flailing to me, and not in a way that's giving me warm fuzzies.

As for Madge, there are a few factors at play. I'm not a fan of the lie detector thing either. I pretty much agree with the principle behind her saying " We're going to get so side tracked and everyone's going to post their little list of statements that is ultimately probably meaningless, and everyone's going to look good for saying something townie." So I'm at a loss as to why she proceeded to obfuscate things. I imagine she'll say she was being funny and/or demonstrating how pointless of an exercise it was. But from where I'm sitting, it looked like she was drawing things out and confusing things.

Beyond that, well, I hate to say it but I feel like she's spent a lot of words to say as little as possible. Her response to SPACKlick's question about her reaction if Vytron flipped scum and Dim was revealed as town just seemed ridiculous to me, full of (self-admittedly) contradictory statements and needlessly invoking things like modkills in what didn't strike me as particularly productive fashion.

That said, Madge *always* seems scummy to me. If something happened to Vytron in the 11th hour necessitating our finding another lynch target, I'd vote for her, but I simply wouldn't feel as confident about it as I do about Vytron as a lynch target.

And then there's Vytron. To be blunt, my biggest read on him right now is that he has other games he'd rather be devoting his attention to. But I've got to assume he's scum because town-Vyton just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, ok, he wants to be lynched so that he won't be a distration on D2. Exactly whose fault is it that he'd be a distraction on D2? So what in the almighty fuck would town-Vytron have been hoping to accomplish with his overall play today? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like if a town player were going to try to get themselves lynched, they'd do so in such a fashion that would leave a clear and unequivocal trail of information that his teammates could follow once they get his flip. If Vytron should flip town, we're *drowning* in beer. Screw that. The only reason I'm not putting an actual vote in on him is that I don't want to push things to close to a hammer without being certain everyone who wants to say something has had the chance to. Barring some sort of stunning development, I'll cheerfully put an actual vote down on him should it become necessary.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:09 am UTC

I did it, mainly, to get reactions. Reactions are useful, and that's about it. After I flip town, people will be able to see reactions, remembering that there were scum players that, in fact, knew I was town before the flip. It's not my fault people focus on me, it just happens, the only thing I could have done in this game was to ignore SDK, but if people don't see he's a scum tunneling on me then that's not my fault.

I did like your post JM, it sounds like a reaction I'd expect from a townie, but my opinion won't matter until I flip town, so the D1 mislynch is important.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:30 am UTC

Deadline in approximately 23.5 hours. Deadline clock

10 alive, 6 votes to hammer

Current votals:
SDK (1) - BenM16
Vytron (5) - bessie, Vytron, SDK, Lawrencelot, SPACKlick

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:08 am UTC

Note to everyone: Deadline will be close to the time I usually get home from work. If you want me to reply to anything please try to post before 8:00 am PDT because if I hit traffic tomorrow evening I won’t be able to answer in time.

BenM16 - He has posted reads and opinions on players. I don’t think that I agree with his reasoning or conclusions. I’m honestly reading him as more newbie than scummy so I’m willing to let it go for Day 1 only.

mpolo – Do you have any scum reads on anyone except Vytron?

JudeMorrigan – Hope you’re feeling better today. Some things that stand out to me in their latest post.
JudeMorrigan wrote:I like SPACKlick's content since he's had time to start posting more. There are some relatively mild points of disagreement (I'm skeptical the vote order thing actually matters, for example), but I like his analysis overall.

I’m the one who started this. I don’t think SPACKlick anyone else actually agrees with me, they’re going along with it just in case. What other points of disagreement do you have with SPACKlick?

JudeMorrigan wrote:And then there's Vytron. To be blunt, my biggest read on him right now is that he has other games he'd rather be devoting his attention to. But I've got to assume he's scum because town-Vyton just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, ok, he wants to be lynched so that he won't be a distration on D2. Exactly whose fault is it that he'd be a distraction on D2? So what in the almighty fuck would town-Vytron have been hoping to accomplish with his overall play today? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like if a town player were going to try to get themselves lynched, they'd do so in such a fashion that would leave a clear and unequivocal trail of information that his teammates could follow once they get his flip. If Vytron should flip town, we're *drowning* in beer. Screw that. The only reason I'm not putting an actual vote in on him is that I don't want to push things to close to a hammer without being certain everyone who wants to say something has had the chance to. Barring some sort of stunning development, I'll cheerfully put an actual vote down on him should it become necessary.

I don’t agree with your analysis of Vytron, even though we draw the same conclusion. I don’t believe he’s trying to be lynched so he can play other games. And if I understand you correctly, you assume he’s scum because you don’t think his strategy makes sense if he was town? Vytron plays the same way, whether he’s town or scum. He self votes in every game. He hammered himself in Bird7P Newbie Mafia, even though he was our town cop. In reading your analysis of Vytron, I feel you are going after low hanging fruit, and for the wrong reasons. IGMEOY JudeMorrigan.

I am happy with my vote on Vytron because I believe he has been acting scummy in this game.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:31 am UTC

I act scummy both as scum and town and you still are voting me for that reason? What else does make you think I'm scum?

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:44 am UTC

Vytron, for what reason do you think I’m voting for you? Because you self vote? I gave my reasons when I voted for you, which was before your self vote, and had nothing to do with your self vote. You have done nothing since to convince me you’re town, and a lot to convince me you’re scum. I don’t believe self voting (by Vytron) is a scum tell in itself, and this seems to be most of the reason for JudeMorrigan’s suspicion of Vytron. As I implied earlier, this seems to me like Jude bussing a scumbuddy under the guise of scumhunting.

I don’t have to completely agree with anyone else’s reasons for finding Vytron scummy, and they don’t have to completely agree with mine.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby mpolo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:15 am UTC

Do you have any scum reads on anyone except Vytron?


Ben has some things that have looked fishy; however, he also has a bit of a newbie vibe. I am watching him, and as Jude Morrigan said, his follow-up posts have been even less convincing than he already was — i.e. he's gradually shifting from the "newbie town" to "newbie scum" category.

Jude Morrigan hasn't posted all that much, but what I've seen hasn't stuck out as non-townie.

Question to the flavor experts: How likely do you think some kind of "confuser" role is? (Bus driver or similar) I ask because that affects how we make claims on D2. If someone has tracked another player to the house of a dead player and there are no confusers, he has a very likely scum result and should probably reveal post-haste. If there is likely going to be confusion in the results, he might well want to wait until he has an idea how the land lies. (Rewrite the previous 2 sentences for cops, doctors, watchers and jailkeepers, obviously.)
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:01 am UTC

In the story, sometimes a character disguises themselves as another character, or two characters become one or something like that. But it's not as if there is one character that switches two others, or always disguises themselves as another one, these are more situational events that I wouldn't worry about too much.
A situation that could be more worrying is that some characters change alignments (from good to evil or vice versa) over the course of the story. I hope that does not happen in this game as it's my personal opinion that this is not an interesting game mechanic (makes it impossible to play to win). In a similar fashion, it's my opinion that jesters should only appear in a game if it's told beforehand that this is the case or that this is a possibility.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby JudeMorrigan » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:29 am UTC

bessie wrote:
JudeMorrigan wrote:And then there's Vytron. To be blunt, my biggest read on him right now is that he has other games he'd rather be devoting his attention to. But I've got to assume he's scum because town-Vyton just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, ok, he wants to be lynched so that he won't be a distration on D2. Exactly whose fault is it that he'd be a distraction on D2? So what in the almighty fuck would town-Vytron have been hoping to accomplish with his overall play today? I mean, call me crazy, but I feel like if a town player were going to try to get themselves lynched, they'd do so in such a fashion that would leave a clear and unequivocal trail of information that his teammates could follow once they get his flip. If Vytron should flip town, we're *drowning* in beer. Screw that. The only reason I'm not putting an actual vote in on him is that I don't want to push things to close to a hammer without being certain everyone who wants to say something has had the chance to. Barring some sort of stunning development, I'll cheerfully put an actual vote down on him should it become necessary.

I don’t agree with your analysis of Vytron, even though we draw the same conclusion. I don’t believe he’s trying to be lynched so he can play other games. And if I understand you correctly, you assume he’s scum because you don’t think his strategy makes sense if he was town? Vytron plays the same way, whether he’s town or scum. He self votes in every game. He hammered himself in Bird7P Newbie Mafia, even though he was our town cop. In reading your analysis of Vytron, I feel you are going after low hanging fruit, and for the wrong reasons. IGMEOY JudeMorrigan.

I am happy with my vote on Vytron because I believe he has been acting scummy in this game.

Quick post before work, because I think this is important to clarify:

First off, thanks for the well-wishes. And I'd like to apologize for the bit about him trying to be lynched so he can play other games. That was a cheap-shot on my part.

I'm afraid I must have been unclear. My intended argument is very definitely not that Vytron looks scummy because he self-voted. I even joked earlier in the game about it not being an XKCD game until Vytron self-votes. In and of itself, I consider it almost meaningless. No, my line of thought was more "ok, so what if Vytron *did* wind up flipping town? What would that tell us?" Maybe this is the brain-fog talking, but I'm struggling to see where it would tell us anything. He's been all over the place on his reads and his interactions are just a mess. I mean, I know he likes to play ambiguously on D1 to avoid being killed during the night. But I feel like he's gone way past "ambiguously" this game. I think it was Lawrencelot who said earlier that he thought Vytron's self-vote read like V trying to look like town!Vytron and failing. I feel like Vytron's play this whole game day looks like him trying to do his normal D1 jester-ish act and failing. It just doesn't read true to me.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby dimochka » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:24 pm UTC

I'm sorry I've been away. Didn't realize how much there is going on once I got back, and seems I'm close to deadline. So a few quick thoughts, and if there's anything else anyone wants me to answer let me know. I was hoping to have more time but with two major applications due today/tomorrow, i've been swamped.
Spoiler:
I'm starting my second MBA year, and the applications for the consulting jobs I'm interested in are due this week.

Anyways:

Madge - really don't like all her statements. maybe it's just me but she seems to be posting so much regarding the lie detector, as if she's trying to dig herself out of a hole that wasn't really there to begin with. Also seems her focus has been on vytron/sdk and some on me. Madge - what are your thoughts on other players? And in particular what do you think about Spacklick (no this isn't random).

SDK - I actually see some logic behind you being scummy d1. Given what we brought up so far, are you still pro humanity claims? Interestingly I would expect that as scum you would be more likely to ignore a d1 vote (and not ask for reasoning). As independent you would be least likely to do so. Which means I may need to re-evaluate my read of you, which will happen on the plane tonight. Right now, neutral leaning scummy (although I think that's your usual position). I would still expect you to have asked for the reasoning on the vote.

Lawrencelot - much better with the new content. Honestly in my opinion currently most townie. Primarily because I like the insights from the very top post on page 4 (I think it's page 4?)

Ben - still neutral, but those last few posts seem more like summaries than actual analysis.

Vytron - not independent in my opinion. scummy because his opinion seems to jump around, and his final reads seem too flip-floppy to me and not really defining much.

Spacklick - I just re-read his posts. First two pages are almost entirely unhelpful in my opinion. Only thing of note is pointing out that vytron/sdk may be a team. Although there's an actual reason. Page 3 he begins posting questions. Then he brings in content but seems to me he's mostly asking questions and few are going back at him. So here are a few:
- If vytron flips scum, who do you think is his most likely partner? Madge?
- I may have missed it but what's your current opinion on sdk? Initially you mentioned him as a potential scumbuddy of vytron

Judemorrigan - last post is pinging me but can't quite put a finger on it yet. Seems a bit too careful. Jude - what are your thoughts on Ben?

Also a few points of note:
- I somewhat doubt order of votes matters
- I don't think alignment has anything to do with humanity and vice versa
- I don't see how revealing humanity would help us
- Regarding me posting right after Spacklick - I was in the middle of writing when he posted, as mentioned in my EBWOP. So that's complete coincidence.

I'd vote vytron but I think we have enough votes on him already.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby SDK » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:36 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Given what we brought up so far, are you still pro humanity claims?

Yes, but not very strongly. For one, it sounds like it's possible for there to be an all-human scum team (though I'm sceptical that that's the case). For two, bessie's point that it could be an anti-town factor is certainly possible (whether that's a lyncher or a hitman or a mafia role that can only hit humans, whatever). I'm 100% sure race will play a role somehow though.
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