Once Upon a Mafia - Game Over

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Madge
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Madge » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:55 am UTC

I'd prefer not to. I don't think SDK is a worthy lynch candidate, but I can have my mind changed - I am not certain that SDK is town or anything like that.

Oh, I'm not a doctor, if that helps anyone.

BTW it's a long weekend this weekend so I might not be around as much as I'd like.

Not sure what power Bessie thinks Lawrencelot thinks I have.

SDK's analysis of Ben seems solid. I think Spack is probably town based on a couple of things.

So, just to get my head around things:

Probably town: SDK, Spack

Neutral-Townie: Bessie

True Neutral: Dim, Lawrencelot, mpolo,

Neutral-Scummy: Ben, Jude

Not yet in a position to call anyone scummy proper because I haven't looked closely enough. Definitely not enough to vote.
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BenM16
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby BenM16 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:31 am UTC

I'd prefer not to. I don't think SDK is a worthy lynch candidate, but I can have my mind changed - I am not certain that SDK is town or anything like that.

Oh, I'm not a doctor, if that helps anyone.

BTW it's a long weekend this weekend so I might not be around as much as I'd like.

Not sure what power Bessie thinks Lawrencelot thinks I have.

SDK's analysis of Ben seems solid. I think Spack is probably town based on a couple of things.

So, just to get my head around things:

Probably town: SDK, Spack

Neutral-Townie: Bessie

True Neutral: Dim, Lawrencelot, mpolo,

Neutral-Scummy: Ben, Jude

Not yet in a position to call anyone scummy proper because I haven't looked closely enough.

Wow.. ok.. either you haven't been paying much attention or I don't know but now your looking pretty scummy
How's your and SDK's team going?
Vote:Madge

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SirGabriel
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SirGabriel » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:19 am UTC

Deadline in five days. Deadline clock

9 alive, 5 votes to hammer

Current votals:
Madge (1) - BenM16

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bessie
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:49 am UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:
bessie wrote: I don’t believe self voting (by Vytron) is a scum tell in itself, and this seems to be most of the reason for JudeMorrigan’s suspicion of Vytron.

This is the misreading that I'm talking about. I don't know how you could read my post and come to that conclusion.


JudeMorrigan, I’m seriously confused as to why you are stuck on this.

Timeline Day 1, start at Page 4, halfway through.
Post #1 Jude makes a read of Vytron. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=112570&start=120#p3856361
Post #2 Two posts later, bessie replies with IGMEOY. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=112570&start=120#p3856406
Post #3 Five posts later, Jude replies to bessie and justifies their post. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=112570&start=120#p3856492
Three posts later, SirGabriel calls Night.

Timeline Day 2.
A few people post, including bessie.
Jude’s first D2 post accuses bessie of intentionally misreading Post #1 in her Post #2. Why make an accusation when bessie didn’t even get to respond to Post #3 before the mod called night? Why not just ask for a response to Post #3?
Bessie replies to Jude with suspicion.
Jude replies to SPACKlick and clarifies what they didn’t like about bessie’s Post #2.
Bessie replies to Jude with an FOS.
Jude takes another poke at bessie.

OK, I will try to be as clear as possible, for the third time. I was very suspicious of your read of Vytron in Post #1. It seemed like you were either scum jumping on the bandwagon, or scum bussing a buddy. I stated this in Post #2. You replied in Post #3. I never got a chance to reply to Post #3. In your first post on D2, you accuse me of intentionally misreading your “reasons for supporting a Vytron lynch.” (And by the way you must not have supported a Vytron lynch, or any lynch, very strongly because you never did vote.) You didn’t even ask for my reaction to Post #3 before your accusation. I think you were throwing out that accusation to see if it gained any traction. Let me state that another way so there is no misunderstanding: I think scum is fishing for something to start some talk that may lead to a wagon.

And just in case that wasn’t clear enough, let me make my suspicions totally obvious:

Vote: JudeMorrigan

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dimochka
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby dimochka » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:39 am UTC

MY POST GOT DELETED (accidentally hit backspace when in the general window rather than the text box). I had some analysis of a few players and I'm going to have to put it together tomorrow morning. For now trying to put together my highlevel responses / thoughts

1. Spacklick, regarding the "weird" note in my last actual post, I was responding to this:
BenM16 wrote:Dimochka- Hasn't said much this day, given a player list and said some reads... thought it is a little weird that SPACKlick posts he might be scum and then he instantly posts reads...

2. Re: night results - another reason no one died could be potentially a role that cant be NK'd (such as Pinocchio who is wooden, or maybe Red when in her cape or as a wolf?). Just some things that came to mind. Also if you are a roleblocker you shouldn't claim, but should block the same person again.
3. I could see Red being an SK on some days. I think I mentioned this before. i'm wondering if maybe there are a few independent mafia groups working separately.
4. I'm fine with claiming humanity in any order if the majority supports it.
5. Jude seems more scummy to me than bessie does (comparing their conversations). SDK is my top lynch choice because I still think he is a prime candidate for independent. Spack seems ok to me. I need to re-read madge's posts because so far she seems townie to me.

If I haven't answered some questions let me know else I'm planning to do a player by player analysis in the morning.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

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Madge
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Madge » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:46 am UTC

Get the lazarus extension, like, right now. You'll never lose anything you entered in a form again.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... fgno?hl=en

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefo ... -recovery/
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JudeMorrigan
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:34 pm UTC

Hey, folks. I really, really hate to do this. I know I'm leaving you in a bit of a lurch. But I've got some nuclear grade personal stuff going on in my life right now. To be clear, it's not necessarily bad personal stuff. But my mind is SO not on the game right now. Not even a little.

request replacement

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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SDK » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:47 pm UTC

Aww, Jude is in love! Good luck with whatever's nuked you.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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bessie
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:03 pm UTC

Good luck, Jude, hope everything works out for you!

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mpolo
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby mpolo » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:22 pm UTC

I have managed to read SPACKlick through.

Notes:
Spoiler:
SPACKLick - quick onto Vytron from the start. Thinks SDK and Vytron are team. Switches to Ben for joke. Worried about Vytron jester, but still sees him scummy. (SDK marks possible scum, marks vote on Vytron as bad) Explains low content. Analysis - Vytron scum, SDK odd, Madge odd, Ben jumpy. Asks why SDK would ask what is revealed at death. Continues on SDK, notes that Dim is lurking without being picked on by SDK. Denies "hard-tying" SDK and Vytron, but would be unsurprised by their being together. Ben deflected a question. Asks for lie-detector post from Madge. WooHoo reaction to flip, echos much of my post, points out a disad to roleblockers posting. Explains not answering dim's post. Defends insistence on not reading Vytro-wine. Doesn't like SDK's request of doctor, Madge-Vytron interaction looks scummy, No obvious scum partner for Rumplestiltskin. Adds question about Madge's win-con.


There is a small amount of tunneling going on here, I think. However, he was on the Vytron train before it was fashionable to be there, which is at least something of a townie point for him. His main leads are on Madge and SDK.

I'm going to try to get dimochka (picking due to low content) before going to bed…
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mpolo
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby mpolo » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:39 pm UTC

Dimochka:

Spoiler:
dimochka - lots of flavor information. human-nonhuman from flavor. Vote's Madge for comment about fiance. Lie detector text. Longer analysis (Not comfortable with humanity claim. SDK seems non-town, doesn't like Ben joke, Lawrence low on content). More analysis (Lawrence is better, Ben neutral, Vytron not indie, Spack is unhelpful, mostly posting questions, Jude pings.) Short answering. Now OK with humanity claim if majority wants it. Jude more scummy than bessie. SDK is lynch choice (indie). Spack ok.


Not a whole lot to go on. Another person concentrating on SDK, whom I had almost decided to be townie by this point. Flips a bit on humanity claim. Hmmm.
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SirGabriel
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:21 am UTC

Dr Ug is replacing JudeMorrigan

Deadline in four days. Deadline clock

9 alive, 5 votes to hammer

Current votals:
Madge (1) - BenM16
Dr Ug (1) - bessie

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Dr Ug
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:21 am UTC

Hi all, reading the thread now.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:40 am UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:I've watched the series but it's been a long time. After reading some wikipedia, here's who I think could be scum.

Code: Select all

Character        In this game?   Scum (if in the game)?
Regina           Yes             Maybe
Rumplestiltskin  Yes             Maybe
Captain Hook     Probably        Maybe
Peter Pan        Maybe           Yes
Cora             Maybe           Yes
Zelena           Maybe           Yes
Walsh            No              Maybe


All these characters are human I think. These are some scum team possibilities (not all of them work together):
-Regina and Rumplestiltskin
-Regina and Cora
-Cora and Zelena
-Capt Hook and Cora
-Capt Hook, Cora and Zelena
-Peter Pan and Rumplestiltskin
-Peter Pan or Zelena alone
But I'd need to watch everything again if I wanted to be sure. And the mod might not follow the plot.

Now, what's more useful, here's my scumlist of players, from scum to town
-SDK (wanting people to claim, weird interaction with Vytron)
-BenM16 (weird claims)
-Vytron (being Vytron)
-bessie (neutral)
-mpolo (neutral)
-JudeMorrigan (neutral)
-Madge (townie feel)
-SpackClick (townie feel)
-dimochka (helps town)
-Lawrencelot

I'm completely flavour blind, but if Lawrencelot has any idea of flavour, then does that mean we're likely to have either Regina or Peter Pan as scumbuddies with Vytron?
BenM16 wrote:Have no idea why everyone is bandwaggoning on me but the things in brackets were just complete jokes....
Here we go again
I am TOWN
I am NOT scum
I am NOT independent
@Bessie, exactly.. any sort of race claims wouldn't really help anybody so why are we doing them??
@Spacklick... obviously that's a joke
@Vytron.. and everyone... You don't have to say they my pronoun choice is something male like he
For maf roles... Cora and Regina would be the most obvious choices I would think
Captian hook is at this point bordering on town so he seems out of the question butttt...
Most obvious choice for a third party would have to be Rumplestiltskin, but these are all if Gabriel followed the plot pretty closely.
SDK wrote:Oh yeah.

I am town. I'm not scum. I'm not independant.

Sure.

That was a really bad type of claim for someone who pushed really hard for us to claim.
Unvote
Vote:SDK

Reading through this post was strangely defensive given votals at that point were
SirGabriel wrote:Current votals:
SDK (2) - Vytron, Lawrencelot
Vytron (1) - BenM16
SPACKlick (1) - SDK
BenM16 (1) - SPACKlick
[/b]
in the immediate prior post. One vote does not a bandwagon make.
Madge wrote:SDK and Vytron are both tricky to read. They're both entertaining to have around and I think it's unlikely that they are both scum.
Why? At this point in my read through I was definitely thinking if Vytron is scum, then so is SDK. And now I think that if they both are, then you're up there in my suspect list.
Vytron wrote:Okay, let's do this:

Unvote
Vote: Vytron


The reason people are suspecting me is because they don't know if I'm town or mafia. After I flip town, people can go and reread SDK's, and bessie's posts from my perspective. SDK's "leave Vytron alone" and bessie voting a town will make sense because bessie would know I'm a town if she's scum, and SDK wouldn't tell people to not attack me unless he knew more than he should.
At this point I think either bessie or SDK are Vytron's scumbuddy, and I think SDK is more likely.
SDK wrote:Vytron - Scum
Madge - Scum? Likely candidate for Vytron scumbuddy based on [url=http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?
To me this post makes me even more certain of Vytron-SDK-Madge (ie if SDK is scum, I think Madge is too).

At this point in my read through my thinking is (based on knowledge of Vytron's Scumminess)

Scum:
1. SDK
2. madge
3. BenM16

Neutral:
4. Dimochka

Town:
5. mpolo
6. lancelot
7. bessie
8. SPACKlick

I find it difficult placing SPACK as town as he usually pings me as scum from what I've seen of him when he's town or scum, but atm his long post of analysis was very close to what I was feeling at that point.
Vytron wrote:Okay, looks like I'm getting lynched so I'll make a last list of thoughts for people to go back to read after my town flip:

I'm feeling better about bessie. From the posts she made that SDK quoted, I saw that she only mentioned people she had something important to say about, and made a long list that included everyone whenever she had something to say about everyone. In her list she just summaries without much to say about the summaries, but I guess it could be explained if she was on a hurry, and recently she had gone back to normal bessie (you can compare her last post to the one where she voted me and note the difference.) So I'm no longer sure about my reads on her.

BenM16 has sunk down in my towndar... apologizing for being in New Zealand? That looks like a desperate attempt to become likeable. He has wishy-washy explanations for his behavior, and asks questions about things that happened early in the game that aren't relevant now. He's looking pretty bad and if I wasn't advocating a self-lynch (because, I've lived this before, if I'm not lynched now people will Vytron-focus D2 and that'll be a big distraction) I'd be voting him.

mpolo looks townish and I agree in general with their reads.

I don't find Madge suspicious or shady, so I don't see why Spack is finding her so suspicious, I usually jump over Madge whenever she seems shaky.

Also, while we have pretty much nothing on Dim, please note we don't have much on JudeMorrigan, a player that successfully has managed to avoid analysis and suspicion, so I wouldn't be surprised by a SDK+BenM16+JM scumteam, though SDK is all over Ben, so if the latter is scum SDK might actually be wrong about me instead of being scum himself :P
No mention of SDK in his final post really, despite having pushed it almost all day so far. At this point people were starting to suggest that they were aligned, perhaps he was worried he'd pushed it too far and was trying to at least somewhat repair that? My feelings on his suspicion of bessie earlier were that of trying to bus town rather than scumbuddy, and IMO this post makes me more sure of that.

End of day 1.
my ordering of players stands as above at this point.

Day 2:

Madge wrote:So, I will admit I wasn't on board with the Vytron lynch, but I'm always happy to be wrong! Didn't expect him to flip scum to be honest, but stranger things have happened.

For those of you who are wondering, little ol' Madge wasn't roleblocked last night, if that helps, but I don't know anything that's immediately useful.
I really dislike this post. Almost enough to bring madge above SDK in my list. The first sentence comes across as "dammit my scumbuddy was lynched", and the second sentence, given the lack of kill, is basically an "I'm not mafia" claim. It is also started a further "let's all claim useless statements" track of things. All content that is not really analysable.
SDK wrote:
bessie wrote:SDK, do you have anything to claim?

No. Why do you ask?

I do have a request for everyone though:

If you're a doctor and you targeted me, I'd like you to claim as much.

Thanks.
I think SDK is scum, and is hoping that (as well as whatever stopped their kill going through - choice, doctor or RB) the doctor chose to target him, as a (hopefully) last ditch effort to avoid a lynch today.

Not a lot of content so far today, which is disappointing with a 5 day deadline, currently 4 days away.

Vote: SDK for all of the above reasons.

FOS: madge for all of the above reasons.

General thoughts
chance of players coming back to life -
dimochka wrote:12. Robin Hood - true love of Regina except already married to another woman whom Regina killed when she was evil; Emma accidentally brings the woman back to life, mess ensues.
- we should keep this in mind if anyone comes back to life.
Where did my old signature go? :(

BenM16
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby BenM16 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:25 am UTC

Dr. Ug...
I responded defensively because I jokingly did a town claim and then 4 or 5 people said they thought i was pretty scummy....
so I claimed properly

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mpolo
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby mpolo » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:07 am UTC

Welcome to the game, Dr Ug. (Now I feel guilty for not subbing into your game. But I'm barely staying above water here.)

I hope to read through Jude/Dr Ug and SDK today. Hopefully that will give me some light to decide by.
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Dr Ug
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:20 am UTC

BenM16 wrote:Dr. Ug...
I responded defensively because I jokingly did a town claim and then 4 or 5 people said they thought i was pretty scummy....
so I claimed properly
And now your suspicions are on... who?
BenM16 wrote:So as this is forum mafia does the same thing happened d2 as d1? Or do investigative roles or doctor outs their reports? Or do we just continue scumhunt from yesterday?
Been gone for a long weekend on vacation but it doesn't look like much happened.. :shock:
If so my suspicions.........
SDK
1. Random voted Vytron D1 post number 1
2. When Vytron counter voted he shielded vytron
3. Ended up convincing most people to vote vytron
4. Said his PM had something to do with race, which doesn't make sense for town
5. When Vytron is almost dead asks what will be revealed upon someone's death
6. Woooe Vytron dies and is maf... but is I think a nonhuman character
7. Wants Doc to claim which is a bad bad idea.... but it seems like he's pretty certain he was targeted..
8. Anyone else get the feeling SDK is targeting certain races or fishing for roles?
Just my suspicions but I don't really know, but I find it hard to believe a bus post 1 so im leaning SDK town to indie
Madge
1. The focus was on Vytron and SDK but seems confused
2. Votes for.... dimochka
3. Is suprised that Vytron was scum....
Bessie
1. Talked a lot... given us a lot of reads
2. Voted Vytron for wishy-washy reasons
3. No offense to bessie... But that seemed like a buss
About Vytron's lynch, As I said always I thought he was scum, just not to sure if it was a good idea to lynch him because I thought SDK was third party.

Mpolo, if you have invetigative information I think it would be good probs if you outed that. How is it not useful now?
Be back when less work to do....
I'll forgive this post as just newbie? suggesting that PR's all out themselves is a bit too strange to be a scumtell, but still.

You've posted a bit about madge and SDK, but not much else. Please post some more about things other than those two players.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Lawrencelot » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:19 pm UTC

bessie wrote:If Madge has the power you seem to think she has, then how does she know she wasn’t roleblocked last night?
Madge wrote:For those of you who are wondering, little ol' Madge wasn't roleblocked last night, if that helps, but I don't know anything that's immediately useful.

To me this implies Madge used a power and got a result.

Good point. Maybe I'm wrong about Madge. In which case she's probably scum. But I'm more sure about SDK.

BenM16 wrote:Wow.. ok.. either you haven't been paying much attention or I don't know but now your looking pretty scummy
How's your and SDK's team going?
Vote:Madge

Even though I agree I don't see where you are coming from here. Why is Madge scum?

Dr Ug, welcome to the game. Although Jude looked normal to me, in a few posts you've raised yourself to the town part of my list.
I think Regina could be scum with Rumplestiltskin, but based on the players I think three scum is possible as well. There's probably a third character who could be scum with them both but I don't remember who that might be.

About the 'coming to life' part: there are more examples where something similar happens. In my head I made a post about it, but maybe I decided not to share that information. I think we shouldn't worry about it until it happens.

From all the discussion about Madge, I think I'm at the point where I can vote for her. I don't really trust Ben, but I can't sit back forever. Also everything I thought about Madge's role is probably wrong.

Vote: Madge

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:36 am UTC

Dr Ug, welcome and thank you for replacing JudeMorrigan.

You haven’t acknowledged my vote for you, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Of course, I can’t expect you to respond to any of my accusations on Jude’s motivations, I’m just not sure I want to move my vote yet, because I was reading Jude as scummy. I suspected Jude of being scum partners with Vytron, and suspect Madge of being scum partners with Vytron, so I find it interesting that you voted for SDK and FOSed Madge. I don’t really have any good questions for you because you haven’t had much interaction with the other players yet. Do you feel strongly about lynching SDK today, or would you be willing to switch your vote to Madge?

Some D2 content that stands out to me:
SPACKlick wrote:Going back and doing a re-read Madges interactions with vytron and actions around vytron's lynch look scummy. Vytron didn't do anything that made me think he was on madges side.

I’m a bit confused about this. Why did you suspect a Madge-Vytron scum team? Was it completely due to Madge’s actions?

SDK wrote:I do have a request for everyone though:

If you're a doctor and you targeted me, I'd like you to claim as much.

Thanks.

This, coupled with SDK’s D1 humanity fishing, is so scummy it actually made me question my scum (anti-town independent) read on him yesterday.

SPACKlick wrote:Do you have any reason to believe a doctor did target you last night? Because I'll be honest, If I were the doctor you aren't someone I'd have been protecting last night

I agree with this, I don’t see any reason a doctor would target SDK. But he seems so sure that it may have happened.
mpolo wrote:I came up with another one that would be helpful to town, but to explain it would be to remove its utility, so I will refrain for now.

Is this a mafia gameplay thing or a flavor thing (you don’t need to elaborate, just pick one)? I read the Wikipedia character page trying to figure out a role that would fit with SDK’s actions in this game and I don’t see anything. I feel like I’m missing something that I would catch if I was familiar with the show (this is one reason I avoid games where I’m flavor blind).

SDK wrote:
bessie wrote:I’ve also changed my mind about something else. I support a mass humanity claim.

Why?

Madge wrote:Would also like to know why bessie supports mass humanity claim.

You have your answer. How about a reaction?

I would be willing to move my vote from Dr Ug to Madge, but Dr Ug isn’t in any danger of being hammered so there’s no need to switch yet. However, I do want to point this out to everyone.
SirGabriel wrote:2. Just because something appears to be hammer doesn’t necessarily mean it is. Therefore, discussion and voting may continue after hammer appears to have been reached, until I announce the day has ended. If it was actually hammer, any votes placed after the hammer will not count.

Now that it is D2, some powers might start to become active, like not being able to move votes, double voter, vote not counting, unlynchable, etc.

I’m working on an updated list.

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Madge
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Madge » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:53 am UTC

bessie wrote:Madge wrote:
Would also like to know why bessie supports mass humanity claim.

You have your answer. How about a reaction?


Forgive me if it was written somewhere with a neon sign and whatnot and I missed it, but I don't see any explanation of why you support a mass humanity claim in your post just now?
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bessie
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:19 am UTC

Page 5, quoted so you don't miss it again.
bessie wrote:I was going to reply last night but I fell asleep when I was rereading the thread. I don’t have time to go into a lot of detail, but I will be available tonight if you want to discuss this further.
SDK wrote:
bessie wrote:I’ve also changed my mind about something else. I support a mass humanity claim.

Why?

1. I’ve been thinking about it, because SDK has been so insistent that it important.
SDK wrote:I'm going to drop this push, though. Lawrencelot's list marks it clear that we could well have an all-human scum team. Makes me curious why it's such an important point of my role PM, but we'll see what happens. I didn't think Rumplestiltskin would have been human at the very least.

SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:Given what we brought up so far, are you still pro humanity claims?

Yes, but not very strongly. For one, it sounds like it's possible for there to be an all-human scum team (though I'm sceptical that that's the case). For two, bessie's point that it could be an anti-town factor is certainly possible (whether that's a lyncher or a hitman or a mafia role that can only hit humans, whatever). I'm 100% sure race will play a role somehow though.

2. The reactions of other players to this topic (I don't have time to go through them all right now).
3. Vytron’s role reveal. His humanity wasn’t mentioned. Why?
4. A closer reading of my own role PM leads me to believe this is important. My race is in my PM. This was not the case with everyone.
mpolo wrote:SDK: I am in general fairly comfortable with him at this point. SpackLick said that he had said that the race claim is relevant per his role, which is at least interesting. Since this is providing me with information I would otherwise not have, it's actually kind of townie, I would think. (checks PM) while I presume to know my race, the PM doesn't say anything specific about it, so yes, it was unknown information.


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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:31 am UTC

Madge wrote:
bessie wrote:Madge wrote:
Would also like to know why bessie supports mass humanity claim.

You have your answer. How about a reaction?


Forgive me if it was written somewhere with a neon sign and whatnot and I missed it, but I don't see any explanation of why you support a mass humanity claim in your post just now?
This. You don't seem to have actually given a reason bessie?
bessie wrote:You haven’t acknowledged my vote for you, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Of course, I can’t expect you to respond to any of my accusations on Jude’s motivations, I’m just not sure I want to move my vote yet, because I was reading Jude as scummy. I suspected Jude of being scum partners with Vytron, and suspect Madge of being scum partners with Vytron, so I find it interesting that you voted for SDK and FOSed Madge. I don’t really have any good questions for you because you haven’t had much interaction with the other players yet. Do you feel strongly about lynching SDK today, or would you be willing to switch your vote to Madge?
I must say I just didn't notice that "Vote: Jude Morrigan" was me. apologies.

I'll answer this post then answer your post where you voted for me. I would be happy with SDK or madge, but more happy with SDK. I think at least partly madge linked herself to SDK more than Vytron, and if SDK is scum i'll be very very very suspicious of madge, but if SDK is town I'll be a little bit happier with madge, and wouldn't necessarily push to have her lynched day 3. That being said, she's still my number 2 suspect at present, so if it came to it I'd swap my vote there, but not yet.

I do get a bit of OMGUS: bessie feeling here and am trying not to. I really don't like that "I don't have a good reason, but I'm not changing my vote" bit. Probably mostly because I'm the target though, so I'll leave that there for the moment. Up until this point I had a fairly strong towny read on you.

bessie wrote:
JudeMorrigan wrote:
bessie wrote: I don’t believe self voting (by Vytron) is a scum tell in itself, and this seems to be most of the reason for JudeMorrigan’s suspicion of Vytron.

This is the misreading that I'm talking about. I don't know how you could read my post and come to that conclusion.


JudeMorrigan, I’m seriously confused as to why you are stuck on this.

Timeline Day 1, start at Page 4, halfway through.
Post #1 Jude makes a read of Vytron. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=112570&start=120#p3856361
Post #2 Two posts later, bessie replies with IGMEOY. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=112570&start=120#p3856406
Post #3 Five posts later, Jude replies to bessie and justifies their post. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=112570&start=120#p3856492
Three posts later, SirGabriel calls Night.

Timeline Day 2.
A few people post, including bessie.
Jude’s first D2 post accuses bessie of intentionally misreading Post #1 in her Post #2. Why make an accusation when bessie didn’t even get to respond to Post #3 before the mod called night? Why not just ask for a response to Post #3?
Bessie replies to Jude with suspicion.
Jude replies to SPACKlick and clarifies what they didn’t like about bessie’s Post #2.
Bessie replies to Jude with an FOS.
Jude takes another poke at bessie.

OK, I will try to be as clear as possible, for the third time. I was very suspicious of your read of Vytron in Post #1. It seemed like you were either scum jumping on the bandwagon, or scum bussing a buddy. I stated this in Post #2. You replied in Post #3. I never got a chance to reply to Post #3. In your first post on D2, you accuse me of intentionally misreading your “reasons for supporting a Vytron lynch.” (And by the way you must not have supported a Vytron lynch, or any lynch, very strongly because you never did vote.) You didn’t even ask for my reaction to Post #3 before your accusation. I think you were throwing out that accusation to see if it gained any traction. Let me state that another way so there is no misunderstanding: I think scum is fishing for something to start some talk that may lead to a wagon.

And just in case that wasn’t clear enough, let me make my suspicions totally obvious:

Vote: JudeMorrigan
I must say I can't really see what the point of this is? It seems over a fairly minor point about whether a third vote self vote is a scumtell or not? I fail to see how Jude saying something from Vytron was a scumtell, you disagreeing, and an ensuing arguement about that makes Jude scummy (given Vytron was scum? Or am I missing your point? Surely if anything this looks bad for you?

Your Day 1 post 1 - at this point in my read through I completely agreed with my former self (Jude). I'm lucky in that I'm replacing a person who during my read through I pretty much agreed with most of their posts.

Your Day 1 post 2 - You disagreed with Jude's reason, but agreed with the end result (ie Vytron being scummy). I must say I did have to reread Jude's post to see where she thought Vytron wanted to be lynched to be able to play other games. I think this is the point Jude thought you'd misread. I think Jude was saying more that Vytron was distracted, rather than actively trying to get lynched.

Your Day 1 post 3 - other than quoting you, jude doesn't even mention your name. She just answered and clarified her points.

Your first post on Day 2 (before Jude's post) was a non-content post really, you claimed not to be roleblocked (following the noncontent first post of madge, and then mpolo. I though mpolo's original post requesting that a roleblocker claim more valuable than an "i wasn't roleblocked" massclaim. You then said "I'm thinking" - more contentless words, asked SDK to claim something, followed later by a very vague (when asked why)
bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:Because I thought about it over the night phase, and I am considering moving your position on my scum-town scale toward the town end. However, I don’t feel you were entirely truthful in all your D1 content. I thought I would give you an opportunity to make any corrections.

I did not target SDK with any power last night.
Now that I re-read this, please let us all in on your thinking here. Why are you moving SDK from scum to town. I have not had any such change in opinion, and want to know why you did.

then Jude posted, with not a particularly accusatory post, just what she though about you at that point (and re-reading now I'm tending to agree).

It really looks like you're trying to make something out of nothing. Why?

TLDR:
1) why are you trying to make out as if there was some massive conflict between you and Jude when to an outsider it really doesn't look that way
2) why do you think SDK is town now? What were you expecting him to claim / what did you think he wasn't truthful about on day 1?
3) I agree with mpolo's request that if a roleblocker blocked someone last night they should consider claiming. a second scum lynch day 2 would put us in a very strong position.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Madge » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:35 am UTC

OK so unless I'm mistaken here are your 4 reasons in my own words:

1. SDK says it so there must be a reason for it (even if a scummy one)
2. The way other players react to the idea make you think it's potentially useful
3. Vytron's role didn't indicate his humanity, and that's weird for some reason
4. Your PM specifically mentions your race (mine doesn't, for the record, but it's pretty clear I'm not a human).

I don't understand how #3 is a reason in favour for a humanity claim - Vytron's humanity not being mentioned, to me at least, is a point in the column of it not having anything to do with the game. If it was mentioned I'd put THAT in the "humanity is a useful part of the game" column.

#1 and #2 are both pretty tenuous too IMO. SDK could be a scum whose kills only work on humans, let's pretend, and people can react to anything for any reason and you're not even saying something specific in what you quoted - I'm not talking about finding specific examples that you already said you wouldn't, I'm talking 'the general consensus seems to be that a lot of people are scared of it, and if they're scared of it they probably have something to hide, so let's bring it all out in the open!' or 'the general consensus seems to be to do it, but I recall someone being resistant to it - what are they hiding?'.

Your PM specifically mentioning your race makes me think that maybe, for example, if you're a witch, there might be a Boss Witch who can recruit other witches for mason chat or something; so maybe one race is 'special' or something. I mean, like I said, I'm clearly not human but my PM isn't specific about my race - it's just like "you are name the role" and "name" is clearly a non-human when I looked it up. Is that the sort of thing that you have? Or is yours like "you are name the role, a race" ? Or is it like "you are name the role. Your race is: race" ?
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SDK » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:37 am UTC

Bessie is town, or at least not mafia. No way would Vytron act like that towards her. More later... Or right now. I should get on my computer.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:42 am UTC

SDK wrote:Bessie is town, or at least not mafia. No way would Vytron act like that towards her. More later... Or right now. I should get on my computer.
I'm gonna want some significant detail here.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:03 am UTC

Dr Ug, I have guests over so give me a little while to compose a proper reply. I’m not ignoring your post.

Unvote

I do want to correct this post by Madge.
Madge wrote:1. SDK Another player in the game says it so there must be a reason for it (even if a scummy one)
2. The way other players react to the idea make you think it's potentially useful
3. Vytron's role didn't indicate his humanity, and that's weird for some reason
4. Your PM specifically mentions your race (mine doesn't, for the record, but it's pretty clear I'm not a human).

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby mpolo » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:50 am UTC

bessie wrote:
mpolo wrote:I came up with another one that would be helpful to town, but to explain it would be to remove its utility, so I will refrain for now.

Is this a mafia gameplay thing or a flavor thing (you don’t need to elaborate, just pick one)? I read the Wikipedia character page trying to figure out a role that would fit with SDK’s actions in this game and I don’t see anything. I feel like I’m missing something that I would catch if I was familiar with the show (this is one reason I avoid games where I’m flavor blind).


It's a mafia thing, but also rather unlikely, in hindsight. I was thinking that he might be a paranoid gun owner, but that wouldn't explain his fixing on doctors having targeted him (he could have asked if anyone targeted him to catch them in a lie, for instance).
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:23 am UTC

Here's the reply I said I would make for Dr Ug.
Dr Ug wrote:I do get a bit of OMGUS: bessie feeling here and am trying not to. I really don't like that "I don't have a good reason, but I'm not changing my vote" bit. Probably mostly because I'm the target though, so I'll leave that there for the moment. Up until this point I had a fairly strong towny read on you.

It’s more like “I don’t have a good reason to change my vote yet.” When I made that vote, it was on someone I suspected of being scum. You took over the role and didn’t even acknowledge my vote. If you intentionally ignore a vote on you, yes that seems scummy to me. That’s why I asked you about it.

Dr Ug wrote:I must say I just didn't notice that "Vote: Jude Morrigan" was me. apologies.

And I believe this is a reasonable explanation. Honestly, I didn’t even consider it. That’s why I unvoted.

Dr Ug wrote:I must say I can't really see what the point of this is?

Me either. I just wasn’t seeing why Jude kept poking me about this. I found it scummy, hence the post you quoted.

Dr Ug wrote:Now that I re-read this, please let us all in on your thinking here. Why are you moving SDK from scum to town. I have not had any such change in opinion, and want to know why you did.

I didn’t say I was moving SDK from scum to town. I moved his position on my scale toward the town end. I didn’t say he started at scum or ended at town. But he’s definitely closer to the town end than Madge.

Madge wrote:#1 and #2 are both pretty tenuous too IMO. SDK could be a scum whose kills only work on humans, let's pretend, and people can react to anything for any reason and you're not even saying something specific in what you quoted - I'm not talking about finding specific examples that you already said you wouldn't, I'm talking 'the general consensus seems to be that a lot of people are scared of it, and if they're scared of it they probably have something to hide, so let's bring it all out in the open!' or 'the general consensus seems to be to do it, but I recall someone being resistant to it - what are they hiding?'.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. First of all, this isn’t about a power SDK may or may not have. It was that a player in this game, who just happens to be SDK, was so insistent that this is important that it got me thinking about it. And your remark about “finding specific examples that you already said you wouldn’t” is untrue. I didn’t say I wouldn’t. I said I didn’t have time when I composed that post. And I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say in that last part.

Madge wrote:I don't understand how #3 is a reason in favour for a humanity claim - Vytron's humanity not being mentioned, to me at least, is a point in the column of it not having anything to do with the game. If it was mentioned I'd put THAT in the "humanity is a useful part of the game" column.

Then what are you afraid of? That maybe you’re the only non-human? Does it somehow matter after all? If humanity has nothing to do with the game, then why would you care if everyone claims?

Madge wrote:Your PM specifically mentioning your race makes me think that maybe, for example, if you're a witch, there might be a Boss Witch who can recruit other witches for mason chat or something; so maybe one race is 'special' or something. I mean, like I said, I'm clearly not human but my PM isn't specific about my race - it's just like "you are name the role" and "name" is clearly a non-human when I looked it up. Is that the sort of thing that you have? Or is yours like "you are name the role, a race" ? Or is it like "you are name the role. Your race is: race" ?

How would my race being in my role PM affect my interactions with other players? And where did you pull this witch reference from? It just came out of nowhere. Seems odd that the topic is humanity and you jump to bessie might be a witch. Makes me suspect you have a reason for believing that there is an evil witch in the game. Ok, makes me suspect you know there is an evil witch in the game.

I’ve already said that my race is in my role PM. I’m not answering your question as to the wording.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SPACKlick » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:46 am UTC

Sorry to do this but My course has taken away most of my internet time I'm afraid I need to ask for a replacement.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby mpolo » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:53 pm UTC

Well, I didn't get a lot of new time today. Hopefully tomorrow is better. In any case, the latest discussion has me wondering more and more about my trust of SDK. Madge was on my watch list anyway. So my vote is probably going to go that way. I feel pretty certain that Ben is newbie town (and not newbie scum).
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:59 pm UTC

Deadline in fifty hours. Deadline clock

I am still looking for a replacement for SPACKlick.

9 alive, 5 votes to hammer

Current votals:
Madge (2) - BenM16, Lawrencelot
SDK (1) - Dr Ug

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:55 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Dr Ug wrote:Now that I re-read this, please let us all in on your thinking here. Why are you moving SDK from scum to town. I have not had any such change in opinion, and want to know why you did.

I didn’t say I was moving SDK from scum to town. I moved his position on my scale toward the town end. I didn’t say he started at scum or ended at town. But he’s definitely closer to the town end than Madge.
Ok. You still haven't told us why.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby dimochka » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:15 pm UTC

@Madge - thank you, just installed it. We'll see how well that works!

I don't think voting for Madge is the right thing to do. Looking at her posts:

first she apologizes for being wrong about vytron and claims to not have been blocked. I don't really see a reason for claiming as scum unless it's a really strong role (with some kind of shapeshifting to prevent copping)?

Then there's the interaction with SDK which is definitely weird. She refused to vote for SDK but also didn't give a reason. That's very strange to me.

And finally the humanity discussion with Bessie (and I think this is not actually useful for us and probably doesn't affect town much, though I could imagine a lyncher for a specific role that is using this to better guess his/her target)

In short I think Madge is saying too many weird things to actually be scum :?

I would like to see Jude's replacement because his content thus far and interaction with Vytron makes me suspect him more than others. So I'm actually leaning towards voting for Jude over SDK (because I think Jude could be mafia while I'm still convinced SDK is non-town but not likely to be actual scum). And this may be something I'm reading into but it seemed to me like he was trying to not take strong opinions on anyone but Madge (which others are taking anyways so it looks ok). Wants to see more from Ben, likes my ideas but leaves me at neutral, no read of Lawrencelot. He does bring up the discussion on bessie but I feel like that's arguing on semantics more so than actual content.

Is there going to be an extension to find replacements or are we continuing as is?
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:22 pm UTC

Deadline in approximately 34.5 hours. Deadline clock

9 alive, 5 votes to hammer

Current votals:
Madge (2) - BenM16, Lawrencelot
SDK (1) - Dr Ug


dimochka wrote:Is there going to be an extension to find replacements or are we continuing as is?

If I find a replacement before the deadline, I will grant an extension. Otherwise, the deadline will stay where it is.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby SDK » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:46 pm UTC

Unvote, Vote Madge.

I changed my mind. Madge lied, or at least my reason for thinking she's town no longer applies. I'll try to get a better post up soon. I didn't realise deadline was so close.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby mpolo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:11 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:I don't think voting for Madge is the right thing to do. Looking at her posts:

first she apologizes for being wrong about vytron and claims to not have been blocked. I don't really see a reason for claiming as scum unless it's a really strong role (with some kind of shapeshifting to prevent copping)?

Then there's the interaction with SDK which is definitely weird. She refused to vote for SDK but also didn't give a reason. That's very strange to me.

And finally the humanity discussion with Bessie (and I think this is not actually useful for us and probably doesn't affect town much, though I could imagine a lyncher for a specific role that is using this to better guess his/her target)

In short I think Madge is saying too many weird things to actually be scum :?


So as to do something productive (since it looks like I'm going to have to put off my read a bit longer), this really seems to be linking dimochka and Madge. Pointing out the scummy things and saying that she is too scummy to be scum? All these points look scummy on Madge, and I don't really see being too scummy as a reason not to vote her. But, I think I'm going to have some time to read this evening, so I'll keep holding off.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Madge » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:31 am UTC

Vote: BenM

I have a useful power, and was trying not to get NK'd - looks like I'm getting lynched instead, even though only two people are voting for me.

I'll claim my result from last night before I'm lynched, hopefully, but I'd appreciate not being lynched so I can use it a few more times.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby bessie » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:44 am UTC

Madge, did you miss my questions?
bessie wrote:
Madge wrote:I don't understand how #3 is a reason in favour for a humanity claim - Vytron's humanity not being mentioned, to me at least, is a point in the column of it not having anything to do with the game. If it was mentioned I'd put THAT in the "humanity is a useful part of the game" column.

Then what are you afraid of? That maybe you’re the only non-human? Does it somehow matter after all? If humanity has nothing to do with the game, then why would you care if everyone claims?


I believe that the anti town factions are non human, or at least they are non human when they use a power or a kill.

Madge drew a connection yesterday between my race being in my PM and the possibility I was a witch. Why? That was an odd connection to make. If Regina is a witch (I’m not sure she is, flavor check someone?) then it looks to me like she’s human. But Madge’s post made me think of this:
dimochka wrote:14. Zelena - half-sister of Regina, evil to the core. Tries to kill Emma, Regina, and everyone else. Magic and shapeshifting ability


The reason I moved SDK toward the town end of my list is that I think he has a reason to believe this too. At the start of D2 I asked him if he had anything to claim, wondering if he would change his humanity claim. He gave me an indefinite answer. SDK could be scum, but I don’t see why he would claim non human in his first post if he is scum and he knows all scum are non human. So I guess the answer is my gut tells me SDK is town, even though my head is still unsure. That's enough for me to not vote for him today.

I'll be voting for Madge but I don't want to put her at L-1 yet, so we can hear her claim.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby Madge » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:05 am UTC

I don't care if anyone claims. I've already claimed I'm not human, so I'm not sure what you think I'm afraid of. (Oh? You think that I might be one of three non-humans, and scum!Madge and her two scum!non-human buddies would be exposed? I guess that's a possibility.)

I used witch as a random term, honest. If it's actually what you are then colour me surprised.

I'm not a witch.

I'm not Zelena.

I suppose I may as well claim.

I am a name cop. I investigated SDK last night and got that he was "Granny". Now, Granny is a werewolf by race, but my flavour source tells me that Granny is undeniably a good character. Hopefully that makes my reluctance to vote SDK make sense. I investigated SDK because he's very good, very headstrong, and we could quite easily follow him to our deaths if he was scummy.

Breadcrumb:

So, I will admit I wasn't on board with the Vytron lynch, but I'm always happy to be wrong! Didn't expect him to flip scum to be honest, but stranger things have happened.

For those of you who are wondering, little ol' Madge wasn't roleblocked last night, if that helps, but I don't know anything that's immediately useful.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 2

Postby BenM16 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:50 am UTC

Unvote
Until SDK can come and confirm or reject this


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