Once Upon a Mafia - Game Over

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Dr Ug
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:28 am UTC

I disagree with the call for a massclaim. I dislike them in general, and always build mechanisms to make them anti-town in my games (as do most mods). This game is very easy to go from name -> power role. This would out major roles, unnecessarily. I think a better way is to force suspicious players to claim (like we did with madge). That I'm ok with. But not a massclaim.

Ben, please post that detail you promised. Also, if you think massclaim is a good idea, how come you haven't claimed first? (I'm not suggesting you should claim, just give the reason behind not claiming if you think it is a good idea for town to claim).

If we were going down the massclaim pathway, I'd be wanting to control the order of claims, with more suspicious people (IMO bessie and dimochka at present) claiming first, so they don't have the benefit of other people's claims before being forced to make up their own (if they were indeed scum).

The problem with your massclaim idea, is that scum are unlikely to massclaim Prince Charming, Snow White or Henry, and much more likely to claim a role like Granny (thus my ongoing suspicion of SDK), where there is a chance they weren't in the game, and therefore not likely to get counter-claimed.
bessie wrote:Dr Ug’s discussion on Madge’s role has me thinking about it. When I read her win condition, that Madge wins with Regina, I assumed Regina was mafia. But then why wasn’t Madge’s win condition that she wins with mafia? Does anyone think it’s possible that Regina is independent, maybe serial killer? Then we possibly have one more mafia member and an anti-town independent. That seems like a lot of scum for a 10 player game, but only two of them know each other, so maybe not.
This was indeed my read of it. That Regina must be SK-like, with a supporter (the magic mirror). This makes at least 4 scum, which does indeed seem like a lot.
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dimochka
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby dimochka » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:20 am UTC

I feel like i'm apologizing all the time for not having many posts. unfortunately real life has gotten much busier than expected, but i'm trying to keep up. anyways let me respond to everything and get some of my thoughts out

First off - it was already quoted several times, but I agree ben is town. considering mpolo pointed out the lie detector role from my list (as dr ug pointed out as well), i thought it may have something to do with his role, but thought this shouldn't be something to voice, since i cannot see a lie detector being anything but town.

I'm perfectly fine with claiming my humanity. As a matter of fact, I'll claim now - I'm human. I'm not that comfortable with claiming roles because I think it gives scum the ability to pick out roles to target. On the other hand, I don't feel like the powers of the three revealed roles so far were very obvious (they are in retrospect but I would not have guessed any of them beforehand), but if we start discussing roles, scum could guess some of the possibilities.

That actually brings me to SDK. I would say it's more likely than not that he is Granny, but that doesn't mean that I trust him. As a matter of fact, when I think of his role, I can't think about anything of note (other than some kind of listener)... EXCEPT werewolf. I forgot about that, and then notice who pointed this out - Madge. It is very possible that Granny, as well as Red (if she's in the game) is an SK. I would like to note that from what I remember from flavor, Granny knows that Red is a wolf, but Red may not (yet) know that she is one. I don't know if this has any significance at all.

I was suspicious of Jude earlier, but I feel much better about Dr Ug's content. It's consistent and he's pointing out very logical points.

An interesting thing I thought of when I read Madge's reveal - without getting into too much detail, in the last game i modded i had scum search for an independent; when found, the independent would turn into scum and join forces with the other scum. I'm wondering if this is similar, and madge would join regina as scum had she found her. However, I just can't see Red, Granny, and Regina all being in the game and all being scum / anti-town, unless some of these have no kill powers or limited kill powers.

@Dr Ug - Regina could be with Rumple. As a matter of fact, in the series Rumple was the one who taught Regina magic, but at the same time they rarely got along. I just think it's less likely that they're together because of Madge's reveal.

Now to the most important part - if you are a redirector and you targeted me on N2, please let me know. Just a simple yes will suffice, no other details necessary.

Also to confirm - Will we be told if all members of an anti-town team are eliminated? Will we be told of MYLO/LYLO?

I also just realized I haven't had a single serious vote this game.
Vote SDK
For the above and because I was already suspicious of him for being independent on D2 and that has not changed one bit.
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BenM16
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:35 am UTC

Sorry Dr. Ug, what "detail" are you referring to?
Ok, I will lead....
I am Henry

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Dr Ug
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:41 am UTC

BenM16 wrote:Sorry Dr. Ug, what "detail" are you referring to?
Ok, I will lead....
I am Henry
BenM16 wrote:U only dont want to name your character if u know u will have to make one up.
My reads? I'll go in detail later but
In case I wasn't obvious enough, I said you shouldn't claim... Nice "Please NK me" you've painted for youself, especially as you already had one with an effectively claimed town cop result...

I also said especially main characters like Henry shouldn't claim...

Why did you claim?

I'm just... I ... sigh.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:50 am UTC

Because tbh, my power is that i cant be night killed....

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:06 am UTC

Dr. Ug, I think u and dimochka and lawrencelot are town
I think SDK is indie
And i think Bessie is maf
(SPacklick's replacement hasn't really talked)
Vote:Bessie
I wanted people to claim main characters who have to be in the game because then we will have some clears......

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SirGabriel
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:47 am UTC

dimochka wrote:Will we be told if all members of an anti-town team are eliminated?

No.
dimochka wrote:Will we be told of MYLO/LYLO?

No.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:55 am UTC

Can we get a prod on Djehutynakht?

I don't want to claim, and if we did claim I prefer the scummiest players claim first as has been said, and I don't like Ben revealing himself, and I don't like Ben revealing that he can't be NKd (unless it's some sort of gambit to confuse scum).

I wouldn't mind if the scummier players claimed, like SDK and maybe bessie, and Djehutynakht because that would make everything easier. We were already thinking Ben was town.

That being said, because of my power I have good reason to believe one of the players is town, and that player is not SDK or bessie. I prefer to vote SDK still, although I'm less sure about him now that Madge has claimed to have targeted him and he confirms he's granny. Do other people it's more or less likely that Madge and SDK are both scum, now that we know Madge's role and alignment?

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:59 am UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:Can we get a prod on Djehutynakht?

Djehutynakht has been prodded.

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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:44 pm UTC

In a ten player game with two mafia we should only have one indy, especially if that indy is set to help the mafia more than the town (which I presume Madge was set to do). So... I'm town? A 6 town game is not really feasible. Besides, what would I even be? Can't be SK because that's way too much power. Even lyncher or hitman is way too much against the town, and if he's aiming for the scum, that way too much against a 2-man scumteam. I'm town. If you don't believe that, then you should probably think I'm mafia. Independant just doesn't work with what we've seen so far.

PS: No one else claim anything, please. We're not so stuck that analysis can't help out here. I should have time for some of that tomorrow.

In the meantime,

dimochka, do you have any reads based on behaviour? Seems your entire last post was modgaming.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:17 pm UTC

Knowing Madge's alignment and Vytron's would certianly push me the opposite way of thinking SDK was scum. Like I said, maybe indie, but I would be really surprised if he flipped scum. I' going with bessie today, and its not a mislynch and lose so im ok with a mislynch.
Is there a deadline?

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SDK
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:59 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:Deadline clock
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SirGabriel » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:24 pm UTC

Just over 4 days until deadline. Deadline clock

7 alive, 4 votes to hammer

Current votals:
dimochka (1) - Dr Ug
SDK (1) - dimochka
bessie (1) - BenM16

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bessie
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby bessie » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:04 am UTC

First of all, Ben, you promised some player reads and haven’t supplied any yet. And please provide your reasons for voting for me. The only reasons you have given are these.
BenM16 wrote:U only dont want to name your character if u know u will have to make one up.

BenM16 wrote:And i think Bessie is maf

BenM16 wrote:I' going with bessie today, and its not a mislynch and lose so im ok with a mislynch.

So your reasons are bessie won’t tell you her name, bessie is mafia with no explanation as to how you came to this conclusion, and if it’s a mislynch that’s OK because it won’t end the game?

Some updated player reads.

BenM16 - There seems to be reasonable evidence that mpolo investigated Ben as town on N1. He is aggressively pushing for a mass name claim and doesn’t want to discuss why this might not help find scum. Ben, I think that your name claim was a mistake, and your claim to be unNKable added to the mistake. He would be on my neutral-scum list if it wasn’t for mpolo’s belief that he is town.

Lawrencelot – I think Lawrencelot’s been townie this entire game. He gives reads and answers questions, and I think I agree with most of his content. Lawrencelot, I’m not ready to claim yet, but I’m good and I’m town. You’re familiar with the flavor, maybe you can figure out my role by an interaction we had. Also, can you respond to this flavor question?
bessie wrote:From what I’ve read on the Wikipedia page and from discussion in this thread, I believe Regina is anti-town, but I’m not positive. Why does it matter if Regina is a bad guy? Is it because Regina is human (is she always human or does she have a non human aspect like a shape shifter ability)? Flavor check someone?


Dr Ug – I didn’t agree with much of his content, but Dr Ug has been asking questions and posting a lot of analysis, and his content has me looking at my own analysis differently, and questioning my previous assumptions. His reasons for not supporting a massclaim are solid, not what I would expect from scum. And he’s been doing most of the scumhunting on D3.

SDK – I believe he’s Granny and town, but I’m still trying to reconcile my townie read with his strange behavior in this game. SDK, you keep saying that we should trust you because you have information, but you’ve been very reluctant to share any of this information. And in your latest post you ask that no one claim anything. What do you mean by anything (name, role, humanity, cop results, what else)? I’ll claim if I need to claim, but maybe you’ve already figured out my role. I think it’s time you gave us a more solid reason why we should trust you. And, are you human?

dimochka – I don’t like his defense of Madge in his final D2 post. I’m actually wondering if dimochka is Regina and he found her breadcrumb and figured out her role.
Madge wrote:From the list it looks like Zelena is definitely a bad guy, and Mr Gold too, and Regina's description does not reflect well on her towniness.

I’m still pondering dimochka’s D3 post. It’s a long post but without many player reads. I agree that it’s very unlikely we have five anti-town characters in this game. We know Rumplestiltskin, Magic Mirror, and Regina are in the game. Based on your flavor knowledge, do you really think Granny is the fourth anti-town?

Djehutynakht – SPACKlick’s D2 content was low, so not a lot to analyze. The thing that stands out to me the most was that he was perhaps a little too eager to steer discussion away from Vytron. Some quotes that stand out to me:
SPACKlick wrote:1) Ok, we were right. WooHoo Please nobody read or analyse Vytron's wine post from yesterday nothing of use can possibly lie within.

SPACKlick wrote:Going back and doing a re-read Madges interactions with vytron and actions around vytron's lynch look scummy. Vytron didn't do anything that made me think he was on madges side.

SPACKlick wrote:And as an additional question Madge, is/are your win condition(s) completely town aligned?

These last two quotes make me think SPACK/DJ might also be a candidate for Regina, for the same reasons as dimochka. Hopefully DJ will post soon so there’s time for some interaction with other players before deadline.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:04 am UTC

Present!

It's been a very busy few days for me. And now I'm sick, so womp. Apologies for not being here, or, for that matter, not being updated on what's up (but at least I haven't been modkilled!).

Summaries from you guys would be amazingly helpful. I will begin reading through the thread otherwise.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:59 am UTC

bessie wrote:SDK – I believe he’s Granny and town, but I’m still trying to reconcile my townie read with his strange behavior in this game. SDK, you keep saying that we should trust you because you have information, but you’ve been very reluctant to share any of this information. And in your latest post you ask that no one claim anything. What do you mean by anything (name, role, humanity, cop results, what else)? I’ll claim if I need to claim, but maybe you’ve already figured out my role. I think it’s time you gave us a more solid reason why we should trust you. And, are you human?

i don't think I ever said you should trust me, other than my Madge info (which ended up being false thanks to the redirect). I've shared all I care to. Madge was probably scum, Ben is probably town, to claim anything more would be to claim my role. I will do this if necessary, but if you already think I'm town, why do you want me to?

I mostly meant that Ben's name claim thing was a bad idea. We're at a point where people who aren't under suspicions shouldn't be claiming anything (unless it has a substantial impact on making or breaking the lynch, of course).

I haven't figured out your role because I hadn't been trying to. I am not human. I'll give you reason to trust me tomorrow when I go through this game and (hopefully) catch scum.
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Lawrencelot
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Lawrencelot » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:06 am UTC

I don't think Granny is a SK, she is very clearly 'town-aligned' in the flavour even as a werewolf.

@bessie: Regina is clear anti-town for half of the series, and sort-of town in the other half. She did bad things to almost everyone in Storybrooke. She never wants to hurt Henry, and she used Magic Mirror as a slave/pet. Rumplestiltskin taught her magic but they don't get along as dimochka said, and she wants to do everything to get her first love back to life (this is one of the parts where resurrection might play a role in this game) and she'll also do everything to protect Henry. Regina might be scum with Rumplestiltskin, but especially after seeing Madge's role this is less likely. I think someone else like Cora or Zelena is scum, while Regina is independent linked to Magic Mirror somehow. Regina is always human but knows magic, and is the only one who can use magic at the beginning of the story, sort-of together with Rumplestiltskin.

Djehutynakht wrote:Present!

It's been a very busy few days for me. And now I'm sick, so womp. Apologies for not being here, or, for that matter, not being updated on what's up (but at least I haven't been modkilled!).

Summaries from you guys would be amazingly helpful. I will begin reading through the thread otherwise.

I've always appreciated other people giving me summaries when I replace, so let me try. This is from the top of my head so I'm probably forgetting lots of things:

Summary
Spoiler:
D1 SDK and Vytron have a discussion. People comment on what they think of it, we finally agree on lynching Vytron some time after he votes for himself. Most people are not familiar with the flavour so we have some discussion on that. Vytron was scum, no one was nightkilled. There was also some discussion on whether we should claim we are human or not and how relevant this is. Some people claimed whether they are human or not but imo it's not relevant, while SDK thinks it's relevant.
D2 most people think Madge is scummy for interactions with Vytron. Some people think SDK is scummy, and he was asking for a doc claim if the doc targeted him. We lynch Madge, who was independent namecop aligned with Regina, who we still have to find. Mpolo (Emma) was nightkilled.
D3 Ben claims Henry. Before that, people thought he was town because they suspect mpolo investigated him. We consider mass-claiming but most people are against it. Not much else happening.

Overall, dimochka hasn't posted much, SDK has had interactions with Vytron and acting weird with asking for a doc claim D2, I am considered townie by many, bessie was under pressure from some but considered town by others, Ben has been acting newbie but is considered town because of mpolo's breadcrumbs, spacklick looked townie D1 but has been falling back and asked to be replaced, judemorrigan looked scummy but is replaced by Dr Ug who looked townie, and that's it.


Bessie is acting protown imo, so my updated scumlist would consists of dimochka, djehutynakht and SDK, where SDK is also becoming more townie in my eyes.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:38 pm UTC

Bessie I voted you due to your interaction with Madge and Vytron.
I apologize for my personal claim but I still think having the six of you name claim is a good idea, seeing as one of you is Regina. SDK is pretty much confirmed Granny and so if we have only one anti-town it can't be SDK. I am still for a name claim but you guys can decide by majority vote i guess.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:59 pm UTC

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

Ben M16
Lawrencelot
bessie

JudeMorrigan Dr Ug
dimochka
SPACKlick Djehutynakht

Vytron (Rumplestiltskin, Mafia)
Madge (Magic Mirror, Independent Name Cop)
mpolo (Emma, Town Cop/Lie Detector)

I think I'll do this player by player today...

JudeMorrigan/Dr Ug
Jude's content was sparse, but solid. Good reads, good (new) contributions.

Dr Ug came out of the gates with a Vytron/Madge/SDK scumteam in mind, which caught me off guard at the time. I wasn't sure what to make of his completely different read of the game, later including bessie in there as well. It wasn't just the wrong reads, but the leaps of logic he seemed to take to get there, jumping off past people saying that the Vytron/SDK thing at the beginning was weird, without much more explanation.
Dr Ug wrote:
SDK wrote:Bessie is town, or at least not mafia. No way would Vytron act like that towards her. More later... Or right now. I should get on my computer.
I'm gonna want some significant detail here.

Yeah, probably should add bessie to my list of people to review. She's receiving a bit of heat for reasons that I don't understand.

Overall, Dr Ug is kinda here and there. Jumping around a lot, but I can't really identify a scum motivation for doing so. I was pretty comfortable with my Jude town read, so I guess we'll go from there.

Started composing this a couple hours ago. Now I've gotta run. We'll continue tomorrow.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:42 pm UTC

SPACKlick/Djehutynakht

Still don't like how SPACKlick read Vytron and I as scumbuddies. Not just that he held that read, but the way it started as a subtle push towards it - like setting up a mislynch to follow his buddy's mislynch. This was furthered a bit by mention our past game as scum buddies where he claimed I bussed him hard - that never happened. As a general rule, I don't bus. When I confront him about tying Vytron and me together, he backs off a bit, which I'm not a big fan of considering how much he talked about it previously.

Madge, bessie and dimochka get the same treatment at different points in time (and to varying degrees) as well. He ends Day 1 with "Madge-Vytron scum team so blatantly a thing", but then starts Day 2 with "I'm still Eyeing Madge as weird from yesterday", which is a big change of pace. Follows that up with "I'm pretty happy to lynch Madge today but I'd like the day to go awhile because I'm limited reads wise once she's lynched", which is a bit strange considering the most likely scum team size is two - the game might just be over (though I guess there was good reason to believe there was a third party). It just feels like he knew Madge was not going to flip scum after all. No comment from SPACK on me calling Madge town either, which I would have expected considering his scum pairings from the day before.

Aside from that, SPACK's play was mostly solid. Questions led places for the most part, and when he was here, he was here. His reads progression just doesn't feel natural though. SPACK acted as if he knew for sure that Vytron was scum, except when he was musing about a Jester or when SPACK questioned Vytron himself (like the request for reads, which were immediately discounted... by SPACK (for town cred?)). I was his scum buddy until I mentioned it. Then Madge was for sure his scum buddy, until Day 2 started. Bugs me a lot.

And on to DJ... okay, that was quick. :?

Overall, SPACK seems a good candidate here.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:35 pm UTC

dimochka

Starts out well with a helpful post on flavour. Continues with that and random votes Madge.

Huh, didn't catch this before: "SDK's humanity claim - not comfortable with it. We're not sure what the mechanics is, whereas scum or a lyncher may know something like this. So I would rather not. It also helps narrow down people's roles, ESPECIALLY in subsequent days when there are more flips", but dimochka himself proposed a humanity claim before I did - it was him that gave me the idea.

The rest of his big post there is good, but his conclusion is slightly troublesome - that he'd be willing to vote either Vytron or me. The reason I see that as strange is because he specifically said that he didn't think we were buddies. Oh, right, he thought I was independant. Okay. Further posts Day 1 are solid enough.

dimochka wrote:Interestingly I would expect that as scum you would be more likely to ignore a d1 vote (and not ask for reasoning). As independent you would be least likely to do so. Which means I may need to re-evaluate my read of you, which will happen on the plane tonight.

dimochka, do you remember saying this? Did you reevaluate? After this post, you never actually say why you think I'm non-town. That's just repeated several times with a little bit of flavour gaming. Can you elaborate on your read?

dimochka wrote:I'm perfectly fine with claiming my humanity. As a matter of fact, I'll claim now - I'm human.

Why are you flip-flopping so much regarding the humanity claim? That's basically your only stated reason for suspecting me, and now you're not concerned?

dimochka wrote:I would say it's more likely than not that he is Granny, but that doesn't mean that I trust him. As a matter of fact, when I think of his role, I can't think about anything of note (other than some kind of listener)... EXCEPT werewolf. I forgot about that, and then notice who pointed this out - Madge. It is very possible that Granny, as well as Red (if she's in the game) is an SK.

1) What does Madge voicing this have to do with anything?
2) You previously described Granny as "one of the good guys" in your first flavour run through. Do you disagree with Lawrencelot at this point that Granny is a good character? She has control over her condition, does she not?

dimochka wrote:I was suspicious of Jude earlier, but I feel much better about Dr Ug's content. It's consistent and he's pointing out very logical points.

"Consistent" is definitely not Dr Ug at this point. What do you think of his vote on you?

dimochka wrote:Now to the most important part - if you are a redirector and you targeted me on N2, please let me know. Just a simple yes will suffice, no other details necessary.

The only reason for you to ask this is if you are an information role with a result. I don't believe you are an information role. Thus, I'd like you to explain this request.

While you're at it, a full reads list would be appreciated. You haven't said anything useful since Day 1.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:55 pm UTC

bessie

bessie worries about Vytron being the third vote. bessie votes Vytron, who returns the vote with fabricated reasoning. Vytron continues asking bessie about her vote, which ends with this townie post. This is not a scum buddy.

I think that's all I need to believe bessie is town. We've already seen one independant and one mafia. I strongly believe there is nothing but one mafia left in this game.

Moving on anyway, bessie's strange insistence on questioning my nonhuman claim is more an indication of town than scum. She's paranoid to just the right level.

bessie, you were voting Jude for reasons that make sense, even if I didn't agree. Then Dr Ug comes in and votes you, causing you to unvote with what look like weak reasons. You say later that "I didn’t agree with much of his content, but Dr Ug has been asking questions and posting a lot of analysis, and his content has me looking at my own analysis differently, and questioning my previous assumptions" which appears to be reasoning for why he is town. Are you at all concerned that he is scum manipulating you?
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:16 pm UTC

Lawrencelot is town. His reads mirror my own, his progressions are natural, his votes are solid and his questions lead somewhere. I have no doubt in this read.


Ben is a bit troubling. He's town unless he's a Godfather or something. He was scummy: self-contradictory, reads shifting at random and not well supported, asking for claims... Then he's cleared as town and goes ahead to claim his role name and (apparently) power. The bulletproof claim bothers me most. If he's town, telling the truth here is obviously awful. If he's town and lying, this is still terrible, but at least I can understand why he would think it was a good idea. If he's scum, it's perfect because it gives him an excuse for staying alive (something that scum need if they're ever "cleared" as town). If he is a Godfather, he might even be telling the truth (though we have no indication yet of anyone but the mafia having a kill).

Ben, can you flesh out your read on bessie? You said it was due to her "interaction with Madge and Vytron". Show me.

While you're at it, explain why you think I'm independant. Every single time you talk about me, I'm either town or indie, but it seems to flip-flop as to which is more likely.

Also, please explain this unvote. When you voted Madge, you said, "How's your and SDK's team going?" along with the vote. Why did her claiming to have targeted me change that theory? If you really believed we were a team, that should have changed nothing.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:20 pm UTC

2 days, 8 hours to deadline. I'd appreciate quick responses from dimochka and DJ specifically so we can flesh this out.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Lawrencelot » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:09 pm UTC

Vote: dimochka

Not because he's scummy, just because he is not townie. While many other players are townie / became more townie.

Will re-evaluate my vote later, this third scum is hard to find so I hope it's the last one.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SirGabriel » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:42 pm UTC

52 hours until deadline. Deadline clock

7 alive, 4 votes to hammer

Current votals:
dimochka (3) - Dr Ug, Lawrencelot
SDK (1) - dimochka
bessie (1) - BenM16

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:13 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:Current votals:
dimochka (3) - Dr Ug, Lawrencelot[/b]


Am I missing something here? One of these two has a double vote?

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SirGabriel » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:16 pm UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:Current votals:
dimochka (3) - Dr Ug, Lawrencelot[/b]


Am I missing something here? One of these two has a double vote?

The votals are correct.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby bessie » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:37 am UTC

BenM16 wrote:Bessie I voted you due to your interaction with Madge and Vytron.

Ben, please reread my interactions with Vytron and Madge and provide specific examples.
BenM16 wrote:I apologize for my personal claim but I still think having the six of you name claim is a good idea, seeing as one of you is Regina.

It’s really troubling to me that you don’t see why this is a bad idea, and even more disturbing that you refuse to discuss it. Ben, no one is going to claim Regina. I just looked at the Wikipedia “Once upon a Time Characters” page and there are 50 characters in the Primary and Secondary sections, and even more in the Tertiary section. It wouldn't be difficult to fake claim.
BenM16 wrote: SDK is pretty much confirmed Granny and so if we have only one anti-town it can't be SDK.

How is SDK confirmed as Granny? By Madge? I believe he is Granny, but I have my reasons. What are yours?

SDK wrote:bessie, you were voting Jude for reasons that make sense, even if I didn't agree. Then Dr Ug comes in and votes you, causing you to unvote with what look like weak reasons. You say later that "I didn’t agree with much of his content, but Dr Ug has been asking questions and posting a lot of analysis, and his content has me looking at my own analysis differently, and questioning my previous assumptions" which appears to be reasoning for why he is town. Are you at all concerned that he is scum manipulating you?

This is maybe a valid reason, maybe an odd reason, but here goes. I replaced in one game ever (Best Idea, for Vytron, and he was scum). I have never worked so hard at a game as I did at that one. I spent all weekend on that game, trying to own my predecessor’s content. Jude had a scummy read on me, and I think that it would have been very easy for Dr Ug to come in and say hey, I don’t know what your deal is with Jude, but I read you as town, let’s start over. He didn’t do that, he owned Jude’s content, and I think that was townie of him. And I believe his reason for not acknowledging my vote on Jude. Maybe he’s not town, but I have at least two people higher than him on my scum list.

And yes, I am concerned that scum is manipulating me. I’m just not sure who that scum is. :)

SDK, you brought up the possibility of a Godfather in the game. I have reason to believe we have characters with Godfather aspects. I’ve hinted at this before (I don’t have time right now but will dig this up if requested). I think Vytron was a part or full Godfather. And the reason I believe this is because I am part Miller.

I would vote for dimochka if he wasn’t at L-1, because he is my pick for Regina, as outlined in my previous post. I also agree with most of SDK’s analysis of dimochka.

Djehutynakht, thank you for replacing, I know there is a lot to read, but please make a post with some content. You are currently near the top of my scum list (holdover from SPACKlick, and failure to post any new content).

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby dimochka » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:11 am UTC

I kept coming back to this all day because I was getting distracted by RL, and it hasn't gotten any better because I'm in the middle of interviews. Since I'm at L-1, do you want my role? Do you want me to give you my power and my targets? I can list any of this as long as we agree that it's useful for us.

I will get to all of SKD's replies in the next 2 hours (I have an hour long call starting in 4 minutes, and then I'm thankfully done for the day), as well as all the other replies. For now I'd like to say that based on what I know about the last two nights there's a very high chance Dr Ug is town. I also think that a double vote power, ESPECIALLY unclaimed, is scummy.

If there are any other questions other than SDK's long post that you want me to include, please let me know. I am town and I have a useful role (and I have no killing powers, if that matters).
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby dimochka » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:23 am UTC

Looks like no responses from anyone. Ok then for now I'm not talking about my power and/or role.

My responses:
- Humanity Claim: I had nothing in my PM about humanity claims, but I'm also 100% human. The fact that you brought up humanity made me think that it may be helpful for scum to figure out who's who. As the discussion continued, and people literally started claiming their roles, I decided it's unlikely to have a lyncher, which in turn means that knowing humanity is still quite far from figuring out roles. And ESPECIALLY if you're human - because there are more human characters than not - claiming that makes no difference whatsoever in my eyes, and does not make someone more or less scummy.

SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:Interestingly I would expect that as scum you would be more likely to ignore a d1 vote (and not ask for reasoning). As independent you would be least likely to do so. Which means I may need to re-evaluate my read of you, which will happen on the plane tonight.

dimochka, do you remember saying this? Did you reevaluate? After this post, you never actually say why you think I'm non-town. That's just repeated several times with a little bit of flavour gaming. Can you elaborate on your read?

I remember saying this. It was as a result of
Lawrencelot wrote:
SDK wrote:What did you expect me to do in response to that vote? It's not like my goal is to never get voted - sometimes it's exactly the opposite!

The vote was baseless. If you were town, I'd expect you to at least ask why I was voting you. If you were scum, I'd expect you to do this too while freaking out inside. Interestingly enough, it seems you did neither, but I think it makes more sense to ignore it as scum.

In my eyes you are scummy for a number of reasons:
1. You brought up the humanity claims. That was a weird request that sounded like role fishing and coming from a non-town
2. You have been doing a lot of flip-flopping on votes. I can quote but you said through a large part of D1 that you thought Vytron was town. Then that suddenly changed. Early in D2 you said you're not planning to vote for Madge. Then you said that your reason no longer applies, except you really didn't explain anything. Opportunistic much? Just because the results of those were favorable to us does not mean that you are on our side. Causing confusion is a positive for scum, and even more so for independents (the basic reason being that they don't usually have a team).
3. Granny is a townie character. Except that a werewolf is very unlikely to be town. I don't know if we have an alignment cop in game currently, but are you saying that if someone were to cop you you'd come out town? Because that I do not believe. Although there was mention by bessie of anti-town factions being non-human when they use a kill. That's a convenient way for a werewolf to work, wouldn't you say? By the way, I'm quite suspicious of bessie for giving such a statement, because there is nothing in my role that would suggest something like that, so I doubt that this was random.
4. The doctor thing. That does not sit well with me at all. I still see no reason whatsoever why you would want a doctor to reveal themselves, because I can't see how it possibly clears more than one person.
5. This post:
SDK wrote:In a ten player game with two mafia we should only have one indy, especially if that indy is set to help the mafia more than the town (which I presume Madge was set to do). So... I'm town? A 6 town game is not really feasible. Besides, what would I even be? Can't be SK because that's way too much power. Even lyncher or hitman is way too much against the town, and if he's aiming for the scum, that way too much against a 2-man scumteam. I'm town. If you don't believe that, then you should probably think I'm mafia. Independant just doesn't work with what we've seen so far.

Why do we have two mafia? Who is the second mafia? Do you think it's Regina? Zelena? Someone else? I don't see how Regina would be mafia with Rumple given Madge's reveal. I also don't know town power, but if we have strong town powers like ben's that prevents him from being nightkilled, then those numbers aren't necessarily correct.

dimochka wrote:I would say it's more likely than not that he is Granny, but that doesn't mean that I trust him. As a matter of fact, when I think of his role, I can't think about anything of note (other than some kind of listener)... EXCEPT werewolf. I forgot about that, and then notice who pointed this out - Madge. It is very possible that Granny, as well as Red (if she's in the game) is an SK.

1) What does Madge voicing this have to do with anything?
2) You previously described Granny as "one of the good guys" in your first flavour run through. Do you disagree with Lawrencelot at this point that Granny is a good character? She has control over her condition, does she not?[/quote]
1. I unfortunately forget my logic but I remember specifically having a thought around it. Will need to get back to it.
2. Yes, I changed my mind. Having control over it is exactly what someone who's an SK or lyncher would need.

SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:Now to the most important part - if you are a redirector and you targeted me on N2, please let me know. Just a simple yes will suffice, no other details necessary.

The only reason for you to ask this is if you are an information role with a result. I don't believe you are an information role. Thus, I'd like you to explain this request.

No, you're wrong and haven't thought through this. Without revealing more, I have some combined results from N1 and N2 that make me believe Dr Ug is town. Those obviously depend on me not having been redirected.

As far as my thoughts on the Madge lynch - in retrospect my reaction makes a lot more sense to me and I stand by it. I was looking at madge as potential scum. This ended up not being the case. The way it seems to me, Madge probably had no way to contact Regina, and potentially didn't even know who Regina was. I'm not sure what Madge possibly had to do with me, and I did not see any breadcrumb because I had no reason to be looking for any breadcrumbs, since my role is a pretty simple town power role.

Other thoughts:
Lawrencelot - votes me with a double vote somehow (or maybe someone else has a hidden vote), uses the same type of argument for SDK as I used for Madge:
Lawrencelot wrote:SDK is acting very mysterious, but if he's making all of this up he's going to have a hard time as scum. So I'm also a bit less sure about him now.

Bessie - seems to know/suggest details about characters or kills that aren't obvious to me, specifically states she doesn't want scum to know the name of her character. This is fishy in my eyes.
Ben - Town. I said this since day 1, and with mpolo's breadcrumbs it's even more likely.
Dr Ug - Very likely town. And he voted me for lack of activity, so I'm hoping this vote goes off. I'm happy to explain how I know this IF we think it's helpful for me to reveal my power.
DJ - I want him to post some kind of content and then I'll decide what I think of him.

I expect the remaining anti-town, whether aligned or not, to be in the set of {SDK, bessie, lawrencelot}. Either one or two, and I would lean towards two.

Also I resent the statement that I haven't had anything useful since D1. I'm pretty sure my last post had content. Yes, focusing on you is part of content. There are a number of games I played on xkcd in which I was the only person pointing out most/all of the scum team. If I think someone is scummy, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks unless I'm persuaded otherwise.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:38 am UTC

Looks like no responses from anyone. Ok then for now I'm not talking about my power and/or role.

My responses:
- Humanity Claim: I had nothing in my PM about humanity claims, but I'm also 100% human. The fact that you brought up humanity made me think that it may be helpful for scum to figure out who's who. As the discussion continued, and people literally started claiming their roles, I decided it's unlikely to have a lyncher, which in turn means that knowing humanity is still quite far from figuring out roles. And ESPECIALLY if you're human - because there are more human characters than not - claiming that makes no difference whatsoever in my eyes, and does not make someone more or less scummy.

SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:
Interestingly I would expect that as scum you would be more likely to ignore a d1 vote (and not ask for reasoning). As independent you would be least likely to do so. Which means I may need to re-evaluate my read of you, which will happen on the plane tonight.

dimochka, do you remember saying this? Did you reevaluate? After this post, you never actually say why you think I'm non-town. That's just repeated several times with a little bit of flavour gaming. Can you elaborate on your read?

I remember saying this. It was as a result of
Lawrencelot wrote:
SDK wrote:
What did you expect me to do in response to that vote? It's not like my goal is to never get voted - sometimes it's exactly the opposite!

The vote was baseless. If you were town, I'd expect you to at least ask why I was voting you. If you were scum, I'd expect you to do this too while freaking out inside. Interestingly enough, it seems you did neither, but I think it makes more sense to ignore it as scum.

In my eyes you are scummy for a number of reasons:
1. You brought up the humanity claims. That was a weird request that sounded like role fishing and coming from a non-town
2. You have been doing a lot of flip-flopping on votes. I can quote but you said through a large part of D1 that you thought Vytron was town. Then that suddenly changed. Early in D2 you said you're not planning to vote for Madge. Then you said that your reason no longer applies, except you really didn't explain anything. Opportunistic much? Just because the results of those were favorable to us does not mean that you are on our side. Causing confusion is a positive for scum, and even more so for independents (the basic reason being that they don't usually have a team).
3. Granny is a townie character. Except that a werewolf is very unlikely to be town. I don't know if we have an alignment cop in game currently, but are you saying that if someone were to cop you you'd come out town? Because that I do not believe. Although there was mention by bessie of anti-town factions being non-human when they use a kill. That's a convenient way for a werewolf to work, wouldn't you say? By the way, I'm quite suspicious of bessie for giving such a statement, because there is nothing in my role that would suggest something like that, so I doubt that this was random.
4. The doctor thing. That does not sit well with me at all. I still see no reason whatsoever why you would want a doctor to reveal themselves, because I can't see how it possibly clears more than one person.
5. This post:
SDK wrote:
In a ten player game with two mafia we should only have one indy, especially if that indy is set to help the mafia more than the town (which I presume Madge was set to do). So... I'm town? A 6 town game is not really feasible. Besides, what would I even be? Can't be SK because that's way too much power. Even lyncher or hitman is way too much against the town, and if he's aiming for the scum, that way too much against a 2-man scumteam. I'm town. If you don't believe that, then you should probably think I'm mafia. Independant just doesn't work with what we've seen so far.

Why do we have two mafia? Who is the second mafia? Do you think it's Regina? Zelena? Someone else? I don't see how Regina would be mafia with Rumple given Madge's reveal. I also don't know town power, but if we have strong town powers like ben's that prevents him from being nightkilled, then those numbers aren't necessarily correct.

dimochka wrote:
I would say it's more likely than not that he is Granny, but that doesn't mean that I trust him. As a matter of fact, when I think of his role, I can't think about anything of note (other than some kind of listener)... EXCEPT werewolf. I forgot about that, and then notice who pointed this out - Madge. It is very possible that Granny, as well as Red (if she's in the game) is an SK.

1) What does Madge voicing this have to do with anything?
2) You previously described Granny as "one of the good guys" in your first flavour run through. Do you disagree with Lawrencelot at this point that Granny is a good character? She has control over her condition, does she not?

[/quote]
Dim I find myself agreeing actually with alost everything your saying here. To be honest SPACK did seem quite towny but we will have to see what his replacement brings.
Lawrencelot
Wanted to put more emphasis on my vote for Madge because of the post above, but then I remembered something. As I said a few pages ago somewhere, if we look at the flavour then Madge is likely town. I will only reveal this information if Madge is in danger of being lynched.

Unvote

I'm willing to come back to Madge at a later point in the game, since it is also possible that scum!Madge is using a safeclaim to her advantage, but that would require knowing the flavour. And on page 1 Madge claimed to be flavourblind.

So I will back off from Madge and find scum elsewhere. SDK still looks scummy but now he's also acting weird with the doctor thing. This confuses me.

About the mass humanity claim: although I'm still against it, I would cooperate if we decide to go for it.

What is the information you were going to reveal?
SDK, I unvoted bc she claimed with information she had. If you confirmed it either 1. you were both scum, or 2. she was definetely that role, and you were that person. Does that make sense?
How was I scummy and self-contradictory?
To be honest, due to everyone's interaction with Vytron if there was only one scum left I'm pretty sure it would we lawrencelot, as all of the other have good reactions to Vytron.
I just didn't like Bessie's reasons for voting Vytron to be honest. Apart from that your content is pretty good
Vytron – Like Madge, he has focused almost exclusively on SDK so far this game. Vytron, I did know you voted for SDK in your third post. The wording in my earlier question was wrong. I meant unvote/vote for SDK. You were the first vote, and then you unvoted, now you are the third vote. I was wondering if it was important for you to be third.
From Vytron’s first three posts (excluding confirmation post):
Vytron wrote:
IGMEOY SDK, because whenever he puts his votes on town is because he's scum himself and panics because he can't really bus his buddies.
Vytron wrote:
Speaking in the name of scum? I know it's sarcasm but it wouldn't make sense for SDK to say that line unless he knows I'm town, and how else would he?
Vytron wrote:
I'm even more convinced that SDK knows I'm town, what with the friending and now acting as a shield so people leave me alone?
Vote: Vytron
For his total focus on SDK so far this game, and his lack of any other scumhunting.

There are some results (a cop result of "scum", a lie-detector result of "lie", a tracker of "visited the victim", a watcher of "visited the victim", to some extent roleblocker of "there was no kill after I roleblocked") that are immediately useful for town. There are others (cop result of "town", lie-detector of "truth", tracker of "didn't leave home", watcher of "wasn't visited", doctor of "treated someone who didn't die") that would out the person investigating without providing major utility for town, at least at this point. There are moments where those could become useful — the investigative role is himself in danger of lynching so wants everything on the table, the confirmed/probable townie is about to be lynched, etc. — and the investigator should wait until then. With all that, I actually did not claim investigative information, but just "information", which I judge to be of limited utility for town at this juncture. There is a certain fear of the night-kill, of course, and that might move me to give my information before nightfall anyway, but I'd rather not give it now when it's not helping.
Im not actually sure if Mpolo visited me, but we know he did not get a scum read
Unvote
Lawrencelot or Dr. Ug do you want to mention anything about the double votes?

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:12 am UTC

Right, I forgot I have a double vote today.

Unvote

I wasnt told who it came from but I have a pretty good idea about that, which I wont reveal.

Short answer to Bens question: I thought Madge was red riding hood.

On my phone now so I will elaborate and respond to the rest later, feel free to ask more questions

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:19 pm UTC

bessie wrote:This is maybe a valid reason, maybe an odd reason, but here goes. I replaced in one game ever (Best Idea, for Vytron, and he was scum). I have never worked so hard at a game as I did at that one. I spent all weekend on that game, trying to own my predecessor’s content. Jude had a scummy read on me, and I think that it would have been very easy for Dr Ug to come in and say hey, I don’t know what your deal is with Jude, but I read you as town, let’s start over. He didn’t do that, he owned Jude’s content, and I think that was townie of him. And I believe his reason for not acknowledging my vote on Jude. Maybe he’s not town, but I have at least two people higher than him on my scum list.

Wait, because Dr Ug did something that you did as scum in another game, he's town? I don't follow.

And the reason I believe this is because I am part Miller.

Part Miller? What is that supposed to mean? Please full claim and also claim your name.

dimochka wrote:Since I'm at L-1, do you want my role? Do you want me to give you my power and my targets? I can list any of this as long as we agree that it's useful for us.

Yes please. I think it's useful because I'm kind of stuck in finding scum. Plus I accidentally revealed my double vote and bessie is also claiming now.

My reasons for thinking Madge was Red Riding Hood (obviously proven false). Spoilered because it's irrelevant now:
Spoiler:
Madge page 1 wrote:I'm also a non-human town person, since apparently it's cool to claim these things.

Red Riding Hood is a werewolf but town/good.
Madge page 2 wrote:I do not have any sort of access any sort of kill, except for the lynch.

This could have been Madge hinting that she doesn't have control over her kill, as someone else pointed out earlier.
Madge page 3 wrote:Not sure why Spack's asking about my win condition. It's town but not worded in the usual way that town wincons tend to be worded. I assume yours is similar or you wouldn't have asked.

This would fit well with a 'town that kills randomly' role.
Madge page 3 wrote:FWIW, my role is a normal one.

This contradicts my theory, someone with a nightkill that they can't control doesn't sound like a normal role.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:32 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:- Humanity Claim: I had nothing in my PM about humanity claims, but I'm also 100% human. The fact that you brought up humanity made me think that it may be helpful for scum to figure out who's who.

The thing is, I didn't bring it up. You did. I just decided it might be a good idea, and said so. Then you turned around and said I was scummy for it, but eventually claimed yourself for no reason.

dimochka wrote:As the discussion continued, and people literally started claiming their roles, I decided it's unlikely to have a lyncher

I don't follow your logic. Why does that make it more unlikely? If there is a lyncher, it's me, right? Ben was the only one who claimed his role. Why would that change your opinion on me?

dimochka wrote:In my eyes you are scummy for a number of reasons:
1. You brought up the humanity claims. That was a weird request that sounded like role fishing and coming from a non-town
2. You have been doing a lot of flip-flopping on votes. I can quote but you said through a large part of D1 that you thought Vytron was town. Then that suddenly changed. Early in D2 you said you're not planning to vote for Madge. Then you said that your reason no longer applies, except you really didn't explain anything. Opportunistic much? Just because the results of those were favorable to us does not mean that you are on our side. Causing confusion is a positive for scum, and even more so for independents (the basic reason being that they don't usually have a team).
3. Granny is a townie character. Except that a werewolf is very unlikely to be town. I don't know if we have an alignment cop in game currently, but are you saying that if someone were to cop you you'd come out town? Because that I do not believe. Although there was mention by bessie of anti-town factions being non-human when they use a kill. That's a convenient way for a werewolf to work, wouldn't you say? By the way, I'm quite suspicious of bessie for giving such a statement, because there is nothing in my role that would suggest something like that, so I doubt that this was random.
4. The doctor thing. That does not sit well with me at all. I still see no reason whatsoever why you would want a doctor to reveal themselves, because I can't see how it possibly clears more than one person.

Okay, that's all fair enough, other than number 1 obviously. I had good reasons for doing what I've done, but let's get into that tomorrow if we need to. The only thing I can say now is that it should be pretty obvious where my "flip-flop" on Vytron was coming from.

dimochka wrote:5. This post:
SDK wrote:In a ten player game with two mafia we should only have one indy, especially if that indy is set to help the mafia more than the town (which I presume Madge was set to do). So... I'm town? A 6 town game is not really feasible. Besides, what would I even be? Can't be SK because that's way too much power. Even lyncher or hitman is way too much against the town, and if he's aiming for the scum, that way too much against a 2-man scumteam. I'm town. If you don't believe that, then you should probably think I'm mafia. Independant just doesn't work with what we've seen so far.

Why do we have two mafia? Who is the second mafia? Do you think it's Regina? Zelena? Someone else? I don't see how Regina would be mafia with Rumple given Madge's reveal. I also don't know town power, but if we have strong town powers like ben's that prevents him from being nightkilled, then those numbers aren't necessarily correct.

I don't care about flavour when it's trying to override game mechanics. Vytron was mafia. Mafia have teams. Therefore there is more than one mafia. We know Regina is in the game. She is assumed to be a bad guy. Based on numbers, there is very likely only one bad guy left. Since that one bad guy left is mafia, Regina is mafia. Simple as that (see spoiler for less simple explanation).
Spoiler:
Typically, you won't have 3 mafia until you've got 11 or 12 players. It would be very rare to see this in a 10 player game. But two mafia balances well with as low as 7 players, leaving 10 in a bit of an awkward spot in that 2 mafia isn't enough, but 3 is too many. 2 mafia plus an SK is a common way to balance this, but regardless of what neutral you choose to throw in, it should be more anti-town. To me, Madge's reveal makes it much more likely that Regina is mafia, because then she's helping the mafia - not anti-town so much as pro-mafia. It's actually a great role for balance that way, and one I've never seen before. Regina as any other alignment unbalances the game.

Someone (Lawrencelot?) said earlier that Regina and Rumplestiltsken had worked together in the past. He taught her magic or something? Do you think it's truly impossible for them to be on a team together? (Oh. That was you who said that!) Why does Madge's reveal mean Regina isn't mafia?

dimochka wrote:Also I resent the statement that I haven't had anything useful since D1. I'm pretty sure my last post had content. Yes, focusing on you is part of content.

Your last post definitely did not focus on me. It had a lot of words, but didn't say much at all. This post is much better.

dimochka wrote:
SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:Now to the most important part - if you are a redirector and you targeted me on N2, please let me know. Just a simple yes will suffice, no other details necessary.

The only reason for you to ask this is if you are an information role with a result. I don't believe you are an information role. Thus, I'd like you to explain this request.

No, you're wrong and haven't thought through this. Without revealing more, I have some combined results from N1 and N2 that make me believe Dr Ug is town. Those obviously depend on me not having been redirected.

That's fine. We'll get into this tomorrow (with a mass claim) if we have to. I'll expect a good explanation, but in the meantime, you're off the hook.


SPACKlick's content was pretty bad overall, and now DJ's only sentence that contributes anything at all is looking to out a power role. He's my strongest lead at this point, especially now that dimochka's not quite so scary, so let's do that.

Vote Djehutynakht.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:37 pm UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:Wait, because Dr Ug did something that you did as scum in another game, he's town? I don't follow.

And the reason I believe this is because I am part Miller.

Part Miller? What is that supposed to mean? Please full claim and also claim your name.

dimochka wrote:Since I'm at L-1, do you want my role? Do you want me to give you my power and my targets? I can list any of this as long as we agree that it's useful for us.

Yes please. I think it's useful because I'm kind of stuck in finding scum. Plus I accidentally revealed my double vote and bessie is also claiming now.

I'd like bessie to respond to these questions, but I don't think she should claim. I don't think dimochka should claim either. I'm pretty sure SPACK is scum, er, DJ is scum. If the game's not over after lynching him, we should mass claim immediately. With 20-something hours left to deadline, we just don't have time to properly dive into a bunch of claims.
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SDK » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:03 pm UTC

BenM16 wrote:To be honest SPACK did seem quite towny but we will have to see what his replacement brings.

"To be honest"? What were you being before?

Can you explain your town read on SPACK? You've mentioned it a few times, but you always just say it's a feeling. What did you think of my rundown of SPACK's posts?

BenM16 wrote:SDK, I unvoted bc she claimed with information she had. If you confirmed it either 1. you were both scum, or 2. she was definetely that role, and you were that person. Does that make sense?

Yes, but it doesn't explain why you unvoted. Did you believe her claim at the time? Why?

BenM16 wrote:How was I scummy and self-contradictory?

I've gone into that in the past. Fear of Vytron flipping town despite holding a scum read on him yourself. Giving multiple and contradictory reasons for voting me Day 1. Apparent (and continuing) unwillingness to talk about your reasoning for reads. Your last post of Day 1 ignoring both leading wagons (Vytron and me). Pushing name claims, and not worrying at all about claiming yourself (including your role :? )... It's quite a list.

BenM16 wrote:To be honest, due to everyone's interaction with Vytron if there was only one scum left I'm pretty sure it would we lawrencelot, as all of the other have good reactions to Vytron.
I just didn't like Bessie's reasons for voting Vytron to be honest. Apart from that your content is pretty good

GIVE DETAIL!

What didn't you like about bessie's vote on Vytron? You previously said that her interactions with Madge were a concern as well. How?

Lawrencelot was among the first to vote for Vytron. Why is he scum?
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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:00 pm UTC

31 hours until deadline. Deadline clock

7 alive, 4 votes to hammer

Current votals:
dimochka (1) - Dr Ug
SDK (1) - dimochka
Djehutynakht (1) - SDK

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby BenM16 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:22 am UTC

To be honest was just an expression.
I unvoted Madge while I was waiting for your response SDK.
SPACK has been asking the right questions though he hasn't always been here and so he seems since he needed a replacement a town without much time to play.
Out of all the players Lawrencelot seems scummy because he didn't contribute much d1, hasn't really said a lot apart from the setup (except a bit more today) and was one of the first to join a lynch on Vytron. This is just a FOS.
None of my reasons of voting you day were contradictory. Show me if you think so.

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Re: Once Upon a Mafia - Day 3

Postby bessie » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:56 am UTC

OK, so Lawrencelot wants me to claim. I have a town read on Lawrencelot, and with his double vote he will likely decide the lynch today, so I will do a partial claim. Lawrencelot, I think this will be enough, but just let me know if you want more.

I am town (not an independent that can win with town, I am fully town). I am also not human. My race is stated explicitly in my role PM. That’s why I was so insistent on D1 that alignment and humanity weren’t related, because I knew I was non-human town. But SDK and other players’ reactions and discussions already had me thinking that maybe I was wrong. At the start of the game, I misread a part of my role PM, and I thought that I investigated as non-town (I for some reason didn’t make the connection that maybe being non-human and investigating as non-town were related). On N1 I got clarification on my role. I only investigate as non-town on a night that I use a power. The next part is speculation about my role, not from the mod. I am in human form most of the time (and investigate as town), and on a night I use a power I am in non-human form (and investigate as non-town). I think that there is a good possibility that scum is non-human, or at least in non-human form when they use a power or a kill, and I’ve already said as much. Madge was non-human, and I think Vytron was the Beast at times and at other times a Godfather. Granny is town because it looks like she never transforms (from my Wikipedia flavor check).

Lawrencelot wrote:Wait, because Dr Ug did something that you did as scum in another game, he's town? I don't follow.

I didn’t say he was town, I said he received enough townie points from me to unvote him. And at that point, Madge had pretty much leaped to the top of my scum list. In the post where I ask Dr Ug to acknowledge my vote for him I state that I would like to switch to Madge.

Lawrencelot wrote:Short answer to Bens question: I thought Madge was red riding hood.

I was pretty sure that Madge wasn’t Red Riding Hood. I told you as much here.
bessie wrote:And in other news...
Lawrencelot wrote:
SPACKlick wrote:Also the way madge phrased her claim about not having control over a kill seemed off to me, like she might have a kill she doesn't have control over. Little thing that no-one seems to have hilighted.

Good catch. I've seen the phrase and thought it was off but I didn't interpret it this way. However, the conclusion should be that Madge is town, for flavour reasons that I won't point out.

If Madge has the power you seem to think she has, then how does she know she wasn’t roleblocked last night?


And to reply to a few other things.
dimochka wrote:Bessie - seems to know/suggest details about characters or kills that aren't obvious to me, specifically states she doesn't want scum to know the name of her character. This is fishy in my eyes.

So I specifically state that I don’t want scum to know my name, and that’s a scum tell to you? You mean I can get town points for wanting scum to know my name? I was under the impression that you thought claiming was a bad idea.
dimochka wrote:This may or may not give some suggestions as to who has what powers, and for that reason I'm not sure if it's a good idea to roleclaim (as rule #5 states). Also keep in mind that there there could be a lot of safeclaims around.

SirGabriel wrote:5. Role-name-claiming is permitted (but is often a bad idea).

And re claiming:
dimochka wrote:As the discussion continued, and people literally started claiming their roles,

When did this happen? No one claimed on D1. Madge claimed on D2 (partial and under duress) and Ben on D3 (much later in the game).

dimochka wrote: As a matter of fact, when I think of his role, I can't think about anything of note (other than some kind of listener)... EXCEPT werewolf. I forgot about that, and then notice who pointed this out - Madge. It is very possible that Granny, as well as Red (if she's in the game) is an SK.

I think you’re on the wrong track with the werewolf=serial killer theory. If I remember correctly, a werewolf is a normal human most of the time, and is only a dangerous killer wolf during the full moon. If there is a werewolf in the game, then it wouldn’t make sense for that character to be a serial killer, because a serial killer would have a kill every night. A werewolf would probably only have one kill every 29 days. I don’t think Granny has any kill, because she doesn’t change into a wolf. And if Red is in the game, I'm pretty sure she is town aligned.


BenM16, I am not following any of your reasoning at all. I'll pick out one example.
BenM16 wrote:Out of all the players Lawrencelot seems scummy because he didn't contribute much d1, hasn't really said a lot apart from the setup (except a bit more today) and was one of the first to join a lynch on Vytron. This is just a FOS.

I don't see how being early on the Vytron wagon is a scum tell. Was he even on the wagon early?

D1 vote history:
Spoiler:
SDK votes Vytron
Vytron votes SDK
SPACKlick votes Vytron
SDK votes SPACKlick
Lawrencelot votes SDK
BenM16 votes Vytron
Dimochka votes Madge
Dimochka unvotes
SPACKlick votes BenM16
BenM16 votes SDK
SPACKlick unvotes
Vytron unvotes and revotes SDK, making him third on the wagon
Bessie votes Vytron
Vytron votes bessie
Lawrencelot votes Vytron, making him second on the wagon
Madge votes dimochka
Vytron votes Vytron, making him third on the wagon
SDK votes Vytron
Madge unvotes
Lawrencelot votes SDK, unvotes, and revotes Vytron so Vytron is not third on the wagon
SPACKlick votes Vytron

Hmm, you’re right, Lawrencelot was second (and fourth) on the Vytron wagon. But I’m not seeing his as the scummy vote on that wagon.

That took way too long. Lawrencelot, let me know if you want more from me. I’m not feeling good about dimochka, but at least he has contributed some content. If we have a D4, I will be looking at him tomorrow.

Vote: Djehutynakht

For reasons previously stated. He’s had enough time to defend himself.


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