Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Game Over

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moody7277
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Game Over

Postby moody7277 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:12 pm UTC

So, was it Opus or SDK who wanted me dead N1?
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

Opus_723
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Signups Open

Postby Opus_723 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:48 am UTC

I've never played a game of mafia in my life, but I've been lurking these forums for a couple of weeks now reading through the recent newbie games, and it looks like a lot of fun. I'm a little intimidated since it looks like I'll be the only one with zero experience, but count me in!

Sign ups:
Newbies:
1. username5243
2. Yablo
3. BenM16
4. Echo244
5. faubiguy
6. Opus_723

Oldbies:
*1. SDK
*2.
3.

Replacements:
1.Vytron
2.
3.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Confirmations

Postby Opus_723 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:44 am UTC

Confirmed!

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:41 pm UTC

I'd like to second the thanks to Suzaku for running a newbie game. As a brand newbie I really appreciate it!

Let's see if I can be helpful at all: If I understand the setup correctly, then mass claim doesn't really work unless we've lost three vanilla towns already. Then, looking at the matrix, there could only be one vanilla town left. At least one of the scum would be forced to claim a power role and step into the spotlight, right? This is my first game, so let me know if I'm being thick!

I don't think I need to random vote when we've already got some good setup discussion going. I'd like to hear more opinions from people on the setup first.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:44 am UTC

Oh wow, I misread the setup earlier. I thought there were 5 town players total, but that's just the vanilla town players added on after the matrix roles. My first post was completely wrong. So much for being helpful.

I assumed SDK's vote for username5243 was random, since the latter hadn't even posted yet. But maybe SDK should clarify. He's the only one voting so far, after all.

We're well into the second real-life day now, and we still haven't heard from faubiguy, Yablo, adnapemit, or moody7277. Hopefully things will pick up once the weekend is over.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:38 am UTC

SDK wrote:
Opus_723 wrote:I'd like to hear more opinions from people on the setup first.

What were you hoping to get out of this question?


Just the sort of analysis that moody7277 provided. This setup is simple, but it's not completely closed, so I was hoping a more experienced player could provide some insight.

As to the usefulness of random voting: I agree that they might generate reactions, but it mostly seems like people just ignore them. Random voting on D1 strikes me as a good way to fake constructive gameplay without providing more than a sentence or two for other players to read. That's why I didn't like the first random votes by SDK and adnapemit. They got to vote and feign productivity while not really putting words down. SDK has since provided some more meaningful discussion, which I like better. adnapemit is still riding on a random vote and little else.

I like that moody7277 provided reads on people in addition to his setup analysis. I think there's enough content for others to do the same now.

moody7277 -- Provided setup discussion (maybe I just like this so much because I asked for it) and player reads. I think this was the most content out of anyone's first post. Townie.

Echo244 -- Seems townie, but maybe that's just because she shares my dislike of random votes. I can forgive the momentary vote on moody7277 since she took it back after his setup analysis.

Bessie -- Slightly informative first post. Town-ish.

Yablo -- Solidly neutral to me. Agreeing with moody7277's analysis and the general anti-claim vibe going around. Needs more content.

SDK -- Random voted with little content, but became more engaged in discussion later on. May be playing the mentor a little too heavily, in order to see townie? Neutral-ish for me.

adnapemit -- Random vote and little else, as noted above. Slightly scummy, but she could change that for me by talking more like SDK did.

faubiguy -- May have forgotten about the game, but it's also very convenient that he only replied once every else had provided content. He pretty much just agreed with everyone else and random voted.

username5243 -- Expressed reservations about doubling up the vote on SDK, but did it anyway. That seems sketchy to me. He also claims to be voting somewhat seriously, but I don't follow his reasoning. SDK made it fairly clear what he hoped to accomplish by random voting, even if I don't agree with that strategy. Most scummy read so far.

Looking back at my list, I guess I'm reading early votes as scummy. Maybe that's wrong, but I'm having trouble shaking it. This list could change quite a bit if we had second posts from some people.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:04 am UTC

EBWOP:

Bessie posted while I was writing mine, so I'd like to respond before I go to bed.

bessie wrote:Opus_723, don’t worry about misreading the setup. This is a newbie game so we’re here to learn/help others learn how to play. If you have a newbie/gameplay question, you can just ask and someone will answer it (I was actually glad to see moody7277 signed up for this game because he has always been helpful to newbies). I misunderstand stuff all the time, and I have been known to misread my role PM on more than one occasion. This setup is really well balanced so we should have a good game no matter which number was chosen. It will be nice if we have 1, 3, 5, or 6 so more players have an opportunity to play power roles.


Thanks for that. I'm having a lot of fun, I just felt a little embarrassed that I made a mistake in my first post!

bessie wrote:Mass claims…what SDK said. I am interested in hearing everyone’s responses to his question about mass claims, so please answer if you have not yet done so.


This was the first thing I tried to sort out, but it's exactly what I fumbled in my first post, so I'll try again. With 5-6 vanilla townies, massclaiming seems next to useless for catching scum. Pretty much everyone who has expressed a thought about massclaim seems to agree with this.

I can see the benefit to selective claiming once power roles have some information to share, but I don't see how everyone claiming in mass would help. Since we can't out scum that way, I just feel like we'd be painting targets on useful players for a night kill. I'm totally open to selective claiming further into the game, though, if the role feels like they have valuable information to share.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:53 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Opus_723 wrote: That's why I didn't like the first random votes by SDK and adnapemit.

Opus_723, why do you think SDK’s and adnapemit’s votes were random?


I don't really see what else they could have been? username5243 hadn't even posted yet when SDK voted him. I guess adnapemit could have had some reason to vote SDK based on his one post and his vote, but there wasn't very much in it. She also implied that it was random by saying that more people should random vote. It seemed pretty plain to me. Did you see more to it than that?

Now that adnapemit has posted more, I feel a little better about her. Now faubiguy is the only player with only one post, I think. I'd like faubiguy to speak up and to respond to Echo244's question about Yablo's content.

I agree with bessie's points regarding username5243. He was already at the bottom of my list, and his response hasn't changed that. That being said, Echo244 and Yablo seem to think this is pretty typical behavior from username5243. Since we have a serious vote on username5243, I'd like to hear what they think. Do you two still think this behavior reads neutral for username5243?

FoS: username5243

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:12 pm UTC

Username finally answered the questions, but he sure took his time, even posting a contentless "I'm waiting" post instead of taking the chance to answer. That just seems... weird? I would think scum would act faster to clear themselves, but I also think town wouldn't avoid the questions so hard in the first place.

Just to make sure he sees this:

Question for username5243:
Username, can you explain why you waited so long to answer those questions even though you had time to 'tap your foot'?


Other notes:

Bessie and SDK: I would also really like to hear from you two now that username has answered your questions.

Echo: Here I was feeling guilty for not posting yesterday. I didn't realize I was being particularly chatty, but I think it's just more fun to be involved.

Yablo: His posts jumped out at me while I was catching up. He offers that username is the safest random lynch and points out that his behavior is dangerous even if he's town. But he walks it back really hard when moody criticizes the idea, even double posting to clarify and pointing out that username is "not unhelpful", which seems contradictory to his previous post. I don't know if this reads like a newbie overreacting to a rebuke or like scum edging toward a lynch and then backing off when he gets noticed. It felt funny, though. Either way, the interaction makes it seem unlikely to me that Yablo and moody are a scum team, as adnapemit seems to be implying. I think at least one of them is town.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:45 pm UTC

username5243 wrote:Okay, I think it was because I made notes for them in my analysis post, to see if anyone noticed (by their names), but then someone pointed it out, so I finally did it.


username5243 wrote:SDK: Five posts. Mostly grilling me (I meant that there's only two or three power roles, and lots of vanilla townies. Okay?) First to random vote (I hadn't posted yet then). Seems to ask questions of others too. Neutral-scum, probably one of the scummier ones so far. @experienced players: Is this normal for SDK?


username5243 wrote:bessie: Three posts, but all fairly long. Mostly grilling me (I meant random voting, and I thought SDK's was random (I hadn't posted yet)). Also doesn't random vote. Looking neutral-scummy (teaming with mafia buddy SDK to lynch me perhaps?)


I guess that's true. Sorry I overlooked that. After all the commotion I was expecting something more pointed.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:09 am UTC

Yablo wrote:I didn't walk anything back. I clarified because it seemed like my meaning was being taken the wrong way. When I referred to username as "the safest random lynch", I meant that in a hypothetical situation where a vote is mandatory. I thought it was obvious that I would understand lynching at random is a bad idea. That's why I clarified with a bit more analysis on the subject; to show that I understand the underlying math.

As for username being unhelpful, he's avoided questions (or overlooked them), and demanded answers to his own questions. That's not helpful behavior, but I don't consider it unhelpful either, really. Unhelpful behavior would be like derailing the conversation or misdirecting it to focus on irrelevant or nit-picky details.


So you thought that username's behavior was dangerous but his actions weren't unhelpful? I guess that doesn't have to be a contradiction, though I wouldn't have thought of it like that. Anyway, my point was mostly that you and moody don't seem like a team to me, despite repeated notes from people that you agree on a lot of things. I thought that interaction seemed genuinely... awkward, I guess?

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:19 pm UTC

SDK wrote:At this point I would encourage everyone who is not vanilla to check the game matrix and see if their role is compatible with a jailkeeper being in the game. If it's not, or if you are the jailkeeper yourself, either state "That's impossible" with no further explanation...


I'm struggling with whether or not that's a good idea. Suppose username is scum: whoever says "That's impossible" paints a target on themselves for N1. The only people who could falsify his claim would be a potential cop, doctor, or tracker. If the doctor does it, there are no other protective roles, and they would die at night. The cop or tracker would have better odds, but there's still a 50/50 chance that they don't have a doctor to back them up. That's 6 total outcomes, 4 of which involve us losing a power role, so worse than even odds. Maybe that's not a bad trade for lynching a scum, but it's not great.

If he's scum and no one speaks up, we have the opportunity to lynch him without outing any power roles on D1.

If username is town... then I think we're in a bad spot. There aren't any other protective roles in those setups, so even if we don't lynch him, scum would just kill him. At least we would get a second shot at lynching scum, but we'd have to decide quickly with one day left before deadline.

Overall, I feel like we're in a bad situation, and I don't see any great ways out of it.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby Opus_723 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:34 pm UTC

EBWOP:

To clarify, this is how I decided on the 4/6 odds. I forgot to mention the possibility of a jailkeeper counterclaim in my post, but it was in the numbers:

Doctor: no protection
Jailkeeper: no protection
Cop: protection OR no protection
Tracker: protection OR no protection

So 4/6 times we have a power role claiming with no protection.

Please point out if this is inaccurate in any way.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby Opus_723 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:35 am UTC

Hey everyone. I'm really sorry about my absence from the game the past few days! I had a houseguest who ended up staying longer than expected due to an emergency, and everything's just been really hectic since Halloween. I hate that I just dropped out like that, but it couldn't really be helped.

Everything is back to normal now though, so I should be able to continue the game as before. I haven't reviewed the thread yet, but I'll do so as soon as I can and check back in.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby Opus_723 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:20 am UTC

Okay, I've caught up now. Lots to take in! Two threads of discussion jump out at me:

1. Username voters vs. Non-voters

I feel like following this trail doesn't help us a lot, but that might just be due to my particular position: Unlike Echo and Yablo, I had a strong scum read on username, and I was well on my way to voting for him until he claimed jailkeeper. That made my stomach turn, and I was afraid to lynch him, so I delayed. I didn't have time for a discussion post on Halloween, but I did see that there was a tie between username and faubiguy, and I wasn't confident enough to break it either way. Those two were my two scummiest reads (and for the record, my scum read on faubiguy hasn't changed, but given my own delay in returning after D1 I want to give him more time to post before I pursue that further). So I sympathize with those who voted for username and those who stayed out of it. That might sound like a hollow position now, but there you go. Anyway, it looks like we have something more fruitful going on now...

2. Echo vs. SDK

This is an aggressive move by Echo. I wasn't really reading SDK as town (I've had him a bit on the scummy side of neutral based on our D1 interactions) but Echo seems suddenly and unfalteringly confident that SDK is scum. There's no power role left that could know something like that for sure. He cast a bit of suspicion on her, but it seems like the usual fare around here. She then challenged him to a showdown and is now practically daring us to lynch her. I have a hard time understanding her motivations. No one has even voted for her.

On that note, I have a question for adnapemit:

adnapemit wrote:I'm not so sure that's was a slip. But this:
Echo244 wrote:Lynching username - the only town power role - was a golden opportunity for scum, whether or not faubiguy was town.
probably was.


Could you clarify why you think this looks bad? I'm not quite following what's wrong with it.

Since I was absent for a lot of discussion, I would also like to invite everyone to ask for my input on anything in particular that I missed.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby Opus_723 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:51 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:Yup, it's an aggressive move. I've been called on alleged scumslips; I'm targeted for a D3 lynch by SDK if faubiguy is lynched and flips town; when I try and defend myself, it gets picked apart as further evidence. Unfortunately, I'm unprovably town, and as a new player I'm not very good at defending myself, so as someone on the list of "people we should lynch", I need to get my thoughts down and then my scummy-appearing self out of the way before LYLO.


This just seems so backwards to me. I honestly had you as a solid townie, while SDK was more suspicious to me. It looks like at least Yablo thought similarly. On D1 you had townie reads from just about everyone. I'm just not seeing that you were in danger of being lynched. You seem to be playing the victim when all you got were a few sideways glances, which pretty much everyone is getting. There is a long way to go between SDK's suggestion, whatever his motives, and a lynch on you for D3. So much can change in that timespan that I don't understand why you're so certain that you were doomed. It makes me think you know something we don't, and that smells like scum to me.

And if you are town, then your plan makes no sense. I'm not going to suddenly agree with everything you said because you flipped town, I'm just going to see it as weird, possibly unhelpful town play. We're not looking back at username's posts as sage proclamations of truth just because he turned out to be the jailkeeper, because he didn't know any more than we did.

Echo244 wrote:And yet, we were drifting towards a faubiguy lynch, nobody really challenging this...


Echo244 wrote:*Has been pushing - voting even - for faubiguy all day, dead certain, not lurking nor alleged scumslip by anyone else has changed his mind;
*Nobody's really stood up to this, so I think scum are comfortable with his lynch...


To be fair, you're challenging a faubiguy lynch. Maybe scum isn't so okay with it after all.

Vote: Echo244

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D3

Postby Opus_723 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:25 pm UTC

So Echo turned out to be town. Yikes.

We can't lynch wrong today, so I'm going to be giving everyone a second look.

faubiguy: Has been my scummiest read through most of the game. Voting SDK again. I'm really nervous about how quickly he's voting on LYLO. Could be waiting for a town player to join him so that his scumbuddy can hammer and win the game.

SDK: Echo is the one who escalated the showdown yesterday, so SDK hitting back doesn't ping me too hard. However, he was the first to 'find' scumtells on her. The death of adnapemit also doesn't look good for him. She had SDK next on her scum list after Echo.

Currently I'm getting pinged mostly by faubiguy and SDK. I think I'm going to try and reset my scum/town reads on everyone and just reread the thread. I want to see if anyone comes out differently at the end on a fresh look. I'll come back with reads on everybody.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D3

Postby Opus_723 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:36 am UTC

My reread was foiled over the weekend by internet problems, so I don't have a ton of analysis yet. I'm hoping I can get through the thread tonight.

bessie wrote:
Opus_723 wrote:SDK: Echo is the one who escalated the showdown yesterday, so SDK hitting back doesn't ping me too hard. However, he was the first to 'find' scumtells on her. The death of adnapemit also doesn't look good for him. She had SDK next on her scum list after Echo.

Can you please explain how you think adnapemit’s death looks bad for SDK?


Right before the Echo lynch, adnapemit had SDK as her next scummiest read after Echo. Also, now that I'm looking at it closer, pretty much everyone else had faubiguy at the bottom of their list, but adnapemit only had faubiguy in the middle of the pack. If faubiguy is scum, then killing adnapemit didn't help him one bit. It's not a huge red flag, but I was trying to see what might have stood out about adnapemit to draw the kill, and that's the only thing that jumped out at me. Specifically, I was referring to this:

adnapemit wrote:
I've said it before but SDK is always going to look suspicious to me and but it does feel like Echo is daring people to vote for her. If this she is town this is a very bad thing to do.
Current rankings:

TOWN

Opus_723
Yablo
faubiguy
bessie
SDK
Echo244

SCUM


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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D3

Postby Opus_723 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:49 pm UTC

My condolences, bessie. I'm sorry to hear that, and hope you're well.

SDK wrote:Opus

Votes for Echo Day 2 after some good talk, and his reads seem to be progressing naturally enough. Opus, you mentioned our Day 1 interactions as having pinged you. Can you point to where that is?

Hasn't properly joined the show yet Day 3. Internet problems, apparently. You said that Time Panda's death made me look bad. Who is my buddy if I'm scum? Does moody's death factor into that?


On D1 I thought your questions seemed a bit superfluous, like you were only asking questions and playing the mentor to seem townie. In retrospect that may have been just to spur any sort of conversation on D1, which is fine. But it pinged me then.

If you're scum, I'm not sure who you could be teamed up with. You don't seem really chummy with anyone. Bessie has been largely agreeable with you, so that's a possibility, but she seems pretty townie to me. You and faubiguy seem to be at each other's throats a lot in the votes, which would be pretty brave for a scum team, but it might just be distancing that's working really well. You have voted each other a few times, but not on any occasion that one of you was actually in danger.

All that being said, I think faubiguy looks scummier than SDK. His early vote today seemed reckless if town, but it makes sense for scum with a buddy out there, either as a ploy to get town!SDK lynched or a way to provide distance from scumbuddy!SDK. Yablo noted that his votes have been very reactionary. And he has been generally more lurky than anyone else.

Sorry I haven't been more active and thorough. I'm not sure what's going on, but my internet keeps going dark for a day or two at a time. My landlord is working on it, but I can't guarantee anything. Luckily I'm in town today, so I should have wi-fi all day and I can get some reading done on my downtime. I really need to reevaluate Yablo and Bessie, and I'm going to work on that now. They seem townie to me but I'm worried that I'm not scrutinizing them carefully enough.

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D3

Postby Opus_723 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:36 am UTC

Well, I think I've made up my mind at any rate.

VOTE: faubiguy

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Game Over

Postby Opus_723 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:17 pm UTC

That was great, everyone! I have to admit I was really surprised at how much town cred I racked up (there was a string of like fours posts almost in a row on D2 where people all ranked me as the most townie, and that was just a little terrifying). I was starting to worry I was overdoing it.

I honestly did NOT want to be mafia in my very first game, so I was pretty nervous. But this turned out to be a lot of fun. Great game everyone!

bessie wrote:If Opus is scum I’m going to cry.


Geez, bessie... I almost didn't have the heart to hammer faubiguy after that. :oops:

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Game Over

Postby Opus_723 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:28 pm UTC

My internet really was intermittent this week, so I think it was mostly that I wasn't around enough. I saw Yablo's vote, then posted and waited for SDK to show up, but I couldn't wait long enough. Then SDK finally voted while I wasn't around, so I voted first thing when I showed up.

Thanks for the game, Suzaku, it was the perfect pace for a newbie, I had lots of fun!

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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Signups Open

Postby SDK » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:21 pm UTC

Have you never been introduced to the mafiascum wiki? You're welcome! (Tracker is told who their target targeted, Bulletproof can't be killed at night).

I've played this setup before and loved it. Matrix6 is great for a nice, simple game, with a healthy dose of modgaming. Wish I could make the time to play this. I'm not going to make it official, but if you run out of replacements, Suzaku, hit me up.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Signups Open

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:05 pm UTC

Well, now that I'm suddenly in zero games... Sign up for this, people! It'll be fun!


Sign ups:
Newbies:
1. username5243
2. Yablo
3. BenM16
4. Echo244
5. faubiguy
Oldbies:
*1. SDK
*2.
3.

Replacements:
1.Vytron
2.
3.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Signups Open

Postby SDK » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:12 pm UTC

Nice. Welcome to the game.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - 3 more players needed

Postby SDK » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:01 pm UTC

It really is a fun setup. Maybe write NEWBIE FRIENDLY! in the title? We should be able to pull more people from those Mafia 101 games Vytron's been running. Tell your friends!
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - 3 more players needed

Postby SDK » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:06 pm UTC

Nice. Oh, but we do need one more. Ben dropped.

Sign ups:
Newbies:
1. username5243
2. Yablo
3.
4. Echo244
5. faubiguy
6. Opus_723

Oldbies:
*1. SDK
*2. moody7277
3. bessie

Replacements:
1.Vytron
2.
3.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - Confirmations

Postby SDK » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:08 pm UTC

Got it, and welcome to the game, Time Panda! And all you others too, of course.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:48 pm UTC

Mass claims can still be useful later in the game, especially in this setup.

Vote username.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:25 pm UTC

Opus_723 wrote:Let's see if I can be helpful at all: If I understand the setup correctly, then mass claim doesn't really work unless we've lost three vanilla towns already. Then, looking at the matrix, there could only be one vanilla town left. At least one of the scum would be forced to claim a power role and step into the spotlight, right? This is my first game, so let me know if I'm being thick!

Welcome to mafia, and... you're being thick*. Not just because you miscounted the number of vanilla town, but because a mass claim isn't directly used to catch scum (most of the time). That was the misconception that led me to make that comment. What it does do is tell us who the power roles are. We can assume the scum will claim vanilla - if they don't we narrow down our lynch pool to two (the claim and the counterclaim). If we get exactly two power role claims out of everyone, now we have two confirmed town to work with. Maybe more if we've got a tracker, doctor or cop.

New question for the newbies: At what point should we mass claim to confirm those people as town? Surely it would be helpful to have confirmed townies Day 1, right?

*Not really. I made that comment about mass claims because I was curious if anyone would figure this out.

Opus_723 wrote:I'd like to hear more opinions from people on the setup first.

What were you hoping to get out of this question?

username5243 wrote:Yep. Potential power roles, but there's always 2 mafaia. I have no opinion on voting either.

username, can you explain basically this entire post? All three sentences are confusing to me since I don't know what you're referring to.

Opus_723 wrote:I assumed SDK's vote for username5243 was random, since the latter hadn't even posted yet. But maybe SDK should clarify. He's the only one voting so far, after all.

My votes are always serious. Which doesn't necessarily mean I want to lynch who I'm voting for. :wink:
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:12 pm UTC

Random votes do not result in chaos. People vote so that there's something to read. Eventually someone sees something they take seriously and the game starts in earnest. That is ultimately the goal of random voting - to get us to the starting line.

You said a lot about Mafia in general, but not much about this game in particular. Is there any behaviour so far that you find troubling? Anyone you're inclined to trust?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:42 pm UTC

username5243 wrote:
SDK wrote:My votes are always serious. Which doesn't necessarily mean I want to lynch who I'm voting for. :wink:


SDK, can you explain this? There's no jester or lyncher or anyone who wants someone to end up lynched in this game...You're looking suspicious...

Vote SDK

And that probably makes two, which is rather risky now, but I may unvote later...

I know you read my post. Please answer my question.


Your vote is a weapon as well as a tool. Sometimes I wield it as one without the other, but most often it's both. I don't want to lynch anyone until I get a better idea of who scum actually is, but that's not going to stop me from voting. Votes are way too useful to wait for certainty.
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:42 pm UTC

Hmm, why do you think two votes on me is risky?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:33 pm UTC

(I started writing this post yesterday. I haven't forgotten about this game, just busy now and I didn't realise I hadn't posted in either of my games until someone pointed it out in the other.)

Guess it's probably been three days since I last posted here too, right? Hello! Let's get to work.

I've got a pretty strong town read on Opus. His posts are long and strong, he takes stances on basically everyone, and he made a mistake with the setup (something that more commonly comes from town since scum know the numbers).

bessie feels pretty good based on previous games with her. She's working, at least, and it seems to be genuine.

Echo's also feeling solid, but I've seen her work before and have come to respect this particular newbie.


username5243 is still scum. I don't care that he ignored questions so much - I haven't checked myself, but I can see that kind of behaviour as his meta. The big thing that stands out to me is his voting patterns. They don't make sense coming from a townie. username votes me for being suspicious, I suppose because I said something confusing: "My votes are always serious". That confusion is cleared up, username unvotes. Fine. The problem comes in when he votes me again before I even make another post, now because I'm trying to get him lynched. My "trying" here would have been a random vote, followed by a couple of questions. That's beyond town paranoia, username is scared enough that he sees questions as accusations.

In addition to that, we've got a good number of minor scumtells here from his analysis post. 1) username waffles on almost every point, calling most people both town and scum down the list. Showing no commitment is scummy, especially his last paragraph where he labels five players as scummy then seems to claim that he has no town reads at all.
2) That same post is self-conscious as well: "I just didn't know that everyone analyzing everyone was normal" worded as an excuse rather than a call to action, if that makes sense.
3) Restatement of his defense to my question: "I meant that there's only two or three power roles, and lots of vanilla townies. Okay?" My question was not so aggressive to warrant this coming from a townie. He's clearly very worried that I've caught him.

Then some weaker stuff in that he was eager to start the game, yet didn't get properly involved for 48 hours (scum tend to avoid RVS more than town), and now prodding people to action only because he's going to get lynched. Could have come from town, but more likely to come from scum, I think. In any case, I'm 95% sure this is not a case of a misguided townie, meta or not. I'm happy with my vote.


Yablo would be my pick for username's scum buddy, assuming I'm right about that. He had a bit of a scummy first post, but otherwise feels okay. My point of contention is his defense of username in a "he's totally scum, but don't lynch him" kinda way. Math without a conclusion is sometimes considered a scumtell elsewhere, but this is xkcd, so... you know. Other than a mostly neutral rundown of the players, Yablo has talked about username and not much else. We'll see where this goes.


Time Panda is unreadable at present.
adnapemit wrote:A better option would be if he is mafia to try and lynch whoever he is working with or if he isn't mafia to work out who is trying to get him lynched.
Does anyone have any theories?

You know my theory now. What do you think of my theory? Do you have a theory of your own? If you're convinced username is scum enough to be hunting for his buddies, why haven't you been coming out more strongly against him?

faubiguy is in the same boat. Perhaps leaning slightly townie based on gut feel for his language.
faubiguy wrote:If I had to guess scumteam right now, I'd say username and SDK based on how they've been interacting so far, but that's very speculative.

Can you point to that interaction that you think is suspicious? What do you think of my comment that Yablo could be his scumbuddy?

In general, faubiguy, how would you expect a scum player to play mafia? Not in this game, but in general. What would you look for in a post to determine if the person posting it is scum or town?


moody, how about an updated reads list from you? You haven't really given much content this game at all.


tl;dr

Town
Opus
bessie
Echo
faubiguy
moody
Time Panda
Yablo
username
Scum
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:14 pm UTC

Stuff like this is always hard, especially in a semi-open setup. My inclination is to go ahead with the lynch just so we don't have to start talking about roles right now. There's a very good chance you're just fishing for a role or two as a last ditch effort. What I mean is, there is no risk for scum to make that claim - one of three things will happen: 1) You convince everyone and avoid the lynch, 2) You get lynched, but get the power roles to speak up to give your partner a better shot, or 3) You get lynched anyway (which is what would happen if you kept your mouth shut anyway).

... Given the late hour and the fact that we already have nearly every player calling you scum, I want you to specificially claim your role. That way a counterclaim is easier - one townie speaks up with simply "That's impossible", and the scum won't know whether they were the same role you claimed or if we're just in a different mode of the game that makes that role impossible. As it is now, counterclaiming you basically requires a mass claim.

In answer to your question, here's a question for you: Do you think scum is more or less likely than town to stick to an RVS vote after getting evidence? Is there a point where I should have moved my vote to someone else, but didn't because I'm scum? Who do you think I should be voting for?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D1

Postby SDK » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:30 pm UTC

It's not a matter of experience, it's a matter of mindset. You showed a scum mindset. That is, a mindset with a goal of lynching for fabricated reasons with all the fear that goes along with it.

Sorry about the RVS - I tried to avoid jargon. Not sure how that one slipped in there since this site doesn't even use the term. RVS = Random Voting Stage. Essentially the beginning of the game.

At this point I would encourage everyone who is not vanilla to check the game matrix and see if their role is compatible with a jailkeeper being in the game. If it's not, or if you are the jailkeeper yourself, either state "That's impossible" with no further explanation... or just lynch username and don't worry about it? Bah. I'm not quite so sure about this read to just lynch a potential confirmed townie... Do we just mass claim? Problem is, I don't have a better lead. Yablo might be an okay lynch, but he's kinda tied to username being scum... Thoughts anyone?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby SDK » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:29 pm UTC

Note to self: username really is a loose cannon. That guy wasn't even playing the same game as us...

With the way the end of Day shook out there, along with moody's death, I think I'm up for faubiguy's lynch today.

faubiguy wrote:
SDK wrote:Can you point to that interaction that you think is suspicious? What do you think of my comment that Yablo could be his scumbuddy?

Mostly just the way you put the first random vote on username, than, then his response to that. As I said, it's very speculative and merely my best guess, but not necessary very likely. I can also see how Yablo's interactions with/references to username draw attention, but I'm not sure how much importance I'd assign to that.

What about username's response indicated that it was scum buddies you were looking at?

SDK wrote:In general, faubiguy, how would you expect a scum player to play mafia? Not in this game, but in general. What would you look for in a post to determine if the person posting it is scum or town?

Scum are going to be playing more defensively, trying to avoid getting themself of their partners lynched and to throw town off track. I'd look for suggesting a lot of reasons other players might be scum (and therefore be worth lynching) and trying to avoid giving away too much information themselves. And since they're arguing against the hidden facts, their posts would be more likely to contain information that contradicts or at least fits less well with that is known, and avoiding details that would place suspicion on them more than other details.[/quote]
Okay, that's fair enough. Who fits that description?

Vote faubiguy.

Echo244 wrote:Now bessie and SDK both piled on the username wagon.

Why do you say "piled on"?

Echo244 wrote:I have a sneaky theory that, as a newbie game with experienced players, we might have a one-experienced-player-plus-one-new-player scumteam... thoughts?

It's possible that Suzaku lied to us, but from the first post: "Players will be assigned to roles randomly".

But let's say for a minute that Suzaku had never written that. Who would you lynch? If they flipped town, would you lynch the other?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby SDK » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:03 pm UTC

bessie, what is your current read of faubiguy?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby SDK » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:15 pm UTC

Yablo wrote:SDK threw out a random vote in his first post, but he later justified leaving it due to username's voting patterns; totally reasonable, but he seemed to view any call for caution as support for someone he said was scum. I can't say I'd have felt differently in his place though.

For the record, it wasn't you supporting username that I took issue with. That was part of it, in particular the way you worded it, but it was the fact that you hadn't done basically anything else that bothered me most.

Echo244 wrote:This is why I'm more suspicious of those who voted username, to lynch the power role first, than I am of those who could have but didn't.

Do you believe that faubiguy is town?
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Re: Matrix6 Redux Take 2 - D2

Postby SDK » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:55 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
Echo244 wrote:This is why I'm more suspicious of those who voted username, to lynch the power role first, than I am of those who could have but didn't.

Do you believe that faubiguy is town?

So, Echo, the reason I asked you this question is because of the now bolded part of your quoted sentence. I think you slipped. If you believe faubiguy is scum, this should read, "to lynch town first". The wording you used looks like you know faubiguy and username were both town, that the only difference between them was that username was a power role. Right?
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