Deathless Mafia - GAME CANCELLED!

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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Lawrencelot
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Deathless Mafia - GAME CANCELLED!

Postby Lawrencelot » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:25 pm UTC

DEATHLESS MAFIA


Weird things have been happening in Viva Village. Moaning and screeching can be heard from the graveyard. Strange circles have appeared in the crop fields. And whispers of hooded figures make the inhabitants uncomfortable. But luckily, no mysterious deaths need to be solved. The only thing you need to solve, is determine whose side you're on.

Note: the game has restarted after a very quick town win due to weird game rules. Let's hope the game becomes more interesting with a rule change.
Changed rules:
1. If your win condition is changed you get 1 penalty point. When a team achieves their win condition, only the team members with the lowest number of penalty points wins.
This could lead to players trying not to let their team win, but in other ways than what happened now, which hopefully keeps things interesting.
2. Doc is not informed when infected.
3. Lynch target is not revealed, except unless alien is lynched.


Standard Rules:
Spoiler:
Posting rules:
  1. No posting in this thread unless you are playing in it.
  2. No talking about this game except in this thread or in an appropriately titled spoiler in the discussion thread.
  3. No player may read discussion spoilers about this game unless they are dead. There are no spoiler reading roles. Talking about discussion spoilers of this game or of on-going games is not allowed.[/color]
  4. No editing your posts. For any reason. At any time.
  5. Do not lurk! One post per real-life day is the recommended minimum. (If you're going to be unable to post for any period of time, please let the mod(s) know ahead of time). Consideration will be given for weekends.
  6. Players lurking excessively will be replaced or, if replacement is not possible, modkilled.
  7. Any player who is modkilled will have their role retconned to ‘Survivor’ meaning they will automatically lose.
  8. You may post in thread during the day phase but not the night phase. It is night when the mod posts a day-end post (this will not be before the official deadline, but won't be much after it, either), or a hammer vote is cast, in which case it is automatically night, whether or not the mod has made a day-end post. Note that this means you may not post content after a hammer vote.
  9. You may not post, nor quote directly from, any PM from a mod. Paraphrasing is fine.
  10. You may not play to lose, or act in a way that is clearly against your win condition.
  11. You may not use encryption systems in order to communicate privately or circumvent these rules.
  12. This is a game; it’s meant to be fun. Personal attacks or other offensive behavior towards other players will not be tolerated.

Deadlines:
  1. In general, days will last for 5 RL days and nights for 2.5 RL days. Weekends will count as half time.
  2. Adjustments will be made to accommodate holidays, or for other reasons if the mod deems it necessary.
  3. In-thread deadline announcements from the mod override these rules.
  4. Requests for extensions will be considered, but you’d better have a good reason. “We need more general discussion,” is not a good reason.

Voting rules:
  1. Votes and questions for the mod must be posted in bold, like this:
    Vote: Lawrencelot

    You do NOT have to unvote to change votes, but it makes things easier and will be very much appreciated if you do. You can unvote in bold, like this:
    Unvote (Lawrencelot)
    Vote: Tolecnerwal

  2. When someone gains a majority of the votes (that is, more than half the number of living players), they are automatically lynched and it becomes night, as above. Posting content after the hammer vote is not allowed, even if the hammer vote was accidental.
  3. If the deadline is reached and no player has been hammered, then the person with the most votes at the deadline will be lynched. In case of a tie, the person who had the most votes before the tie will be lynched.
  4. You can vote not to lynch anyone by casting a vote for "NL" or “No Lynch”. “No Lynch” will be treated exactly the same as any other player for determining votal results.

Death rules:
  1. You’re alive until you are hammered in a lynch, or a mod tells you that you're dead, by PM or in thread.
  2. Once you die, you may no longer post content in this thread. You may post death flavour or a ‘Bah! You killed me,’ post that reveals no information.
  3. On the other hand, once you are dead you may read the spoilers in the discussion thread.

Private Message rules:
  1. You must include the mod in any PM you send related to this game.
  2. You can ask the mod questions by PM (at any time) if you'd rather not ask in thread.
  3. No PMing other players concerning this game unless your role specifically allows it.
  4. Any night actions must be sent by PM before the night deadline. If sent as part of a factional chat, please indicate the action in bold on a new line, as with voting. If you don’t do this and I miss your action, tough.
  5. If everyone with a night action and/or chat is ready to start the next day before the deadline for night is reached, the next day will begin early.


Special rules (read carefully!):
Spoiler:
1. No one can die in this game.
2. If anyone is lynched, instead of dying they will lose all powers and properties and be converted to a vanilla townie. The Alien role is an exception to this.
3. Night phases will last 0 minutes since there is no mafia. You have to post actions during the day, with a back-up action, and I will resolve them after the lynch. However, since I'm not online 24/7 and need time to write the end of day post, standard rules for the night phase apply in the period between a hammer vote or deadline and the end of day post.
4. You are not allowed to use your role ability on the player that is going to get lynched. This is why you need a back-up action.
5. Win conditions can change in this game. You are allowed to play against your current win condition if you think it will help you win the game eventually. Your win condition at the end of the game determines whether you win or lose.
6. As soon as any player reaches their win condition, the game ends.
7. Your role can change in this game, for example by getting lynched. You are allowed to reveal any information you had in a previous role if you think it helps you win the game.
8. Some roles allow private communication with others. This communication is only allowed during the day, and only if I sent you a pm at the beginning of the day. In general, every day I will sent a pm to everyone in the mason group and to everyone in the cultist group, because roles change. So if you just click on "reply to sender and all recipients" then everyone in the group will receive the pm and no one else. If you did not receive a pm at the start of the day, you are not in the mason/cultist group anymore!
9. The results of your action depends on your role and the target's role. I've made a table of all interactions, see Interaction Table.
10. You can have multiple roles. Example: the doc can cure people, but he can also be part of the mason or cultist group, he can be infected by a Zombie, and he can be probed by the Alien. See role pms and Interaction Table.
11. A human is defined to be a non-zombie, non-alien.


Roles:
Spoiler:
1 mason
1 cultist
1 zombie
1 alien
1 shrink
1 doc
1 cop


Role pms:
Spoiler:
Mason role wrote:You are a Mason, aligned with the town. You can recruit one player every night: if successful, that player becomes a mason the following day and you will be able to communicate. They will keep their role and properties. Only the oldest mason gets to recruit new masons. You win when there are no zombies or cultists left.


Cultist role wrote:You are a Cultist, aligned with the Cult. You can recruit one player every night: if successful, that player becomes a cultist the following day and you will be able to communicate. They will keep their role and properties. Only the oldest cultist gets to recruit new cultists. You win when all humans have become cultists.


Zombie role wrote:You are a Zombie, aligned with the Zombies. You can't be recruited or probed. You can infect one player every night: if successful, that player becomes infected the following day, and a Zombie the day after. An infected player still has its own role and win condition, but when they turn into a zombie they lose their role and get the role of this role pm instead. You cannot communicate with anyone else. All zombies can infect one player, and players won't notice if they are infected, only if they become a Zombie. You win when all humans are infected.


Alien role wrote:You are an Alien, independent. You have come to Earth to investigate the human race, which you do by probing humans. You can probe one player every night. You will fail to probe if anyone targets you, and when someone becomes a zombie or gets lynched they lose their probe. You will always know who is probed and who isn't, and you can choose one of the probed players and change the target of their ability or choose to let them target no one. If you are lynched, you won't become a vanilla townie but you will be revealed as Alien. You win when all humans have been probed and there is at least 1 human.


Shrink role wrote:You are a Shrink, aligned with the town. You can target one player every night: if they were part of the cult or mason group, they will leave that group the following day. If a mason or cultist tries to recruit your target they will fail. You win when there are no zombies or cultists left.


Doc role wrote:You are a Doc, aligned with the town. You can target one player every night and cure their infection or Zombie disease. If your target is bitten by a Zombie, they won't become infected. Unlike other humans, you will notice when a Zombie bites you, and you are able to cure yourself if you choose so. You are able to target yourself. You win when there are no zombies or cultists left.


Cop role wrote:You are a Cop, aligned with the town. You can target one player every night to find out which group they belong to. You will see the role of the person, whether they are part of the mason or cultist group, whether they are infected or not, and whether they are probed or not. This action will be resolved after all other actions. You win when there are no zombies or cultists left.


Interaction table:
Spoiler:
What happens when one role targets another role?

Image

If mason/cultist and Shrink target the same player, that player leaves the mason/cultist group or just doesn't enter it.
If mason and cultist target the same player (not mason/cultist), there is no recruit.
If mason and cultist both target a mason, that mason becomes town.
If mason and cultist both target a cultist, that cultist becomes town.
If Doc and Zombie have the same target, the player does not become infected, and is cured.
If two Zombies have the same target, the same happens as when only one Zombie had that target. (so nothing special)
Cop's action is resolved after all other actions.
Different types of actions can mix, making it possible to be infected, probed, mason OR cult, and investigated at the same time.


Players:
1. Dr Ug (lynched Day 1, Day 7)
2. Maident
3. patzer
4. Vytron (lynched Day 4)
5. SirGabriel
6. Gonzo frogman (lynched Day 2)
7. Echo244 (lynched Day 3)

Sending out role pms...
Last edited by Lawrencelot on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:05 am UTC, edited 11 times in total.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Deathless Mafia - pregame

Postby Lawrencelot » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:42 pm UTC

All role pms have been sent. Day 1 starts now.

Deadline: Friday October 23, 20:00h GMT.

Remember to pm me your night actions and backup actions before the deadline.

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patzer
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

Vote: Echo244
for being too towny in the last game and thus making me lose :P

...

Hi everyone. 😊
What shall we do today?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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SirGabriel
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:47 pm UTC

patzer wrote:Hi everyone. 😊
What shall we do today?

I say we should lynch the cultist.

Vote: SirGabriel

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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:04 pm UTC

Good point; the cultist would want to be a Vanilla Townie because then they would win with town of course...

Unvote

Vote: SirGabriel

...hang on, doesn't this mean that the setup is inherently flawed? We'll all win very quickly at this rate
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Echo244
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Echo244 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:08 pm UTC

Yes, patzer, I was far too towny so it was totally my fault that you murdered me at the very first opportunity. ;-P

*hugs* patzer.

Anyway. I'll go along with ending the cult. I'm a bit more worried about the zombies though, that infection delay mechanic plus the n-possible-infections-per-night makes them potentially fast-growing and leaving few humans around means a chance for a sneaky alien win.

FOS: SirGabriel

(Holding off my vote until we've all had a chance to post, don't want any hasty hammering)
Unstoppable force of nature. That means she/her/hers.
Has committed an act of treason.

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maident
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby maident » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:40 pm UTC

patzer wrote:...hang on, doesn't this mean that the setup is inherently flawed? We'll all win very quickly at this rate

I tried to suggest something to counter that in the sign-up thread, but I guess it didn't take. I definitely agree and will add that if we do successfully lynch cult, we can keep them safe with either Shrink or Doc. It'll be interesting also to see what happens with the cop, but I don't think that Zombie or Alien can hide for long. (That's assuming SIrG is telling the truth of course).

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patzer
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:52 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:Yes, patzer, I was far too towny so it was totally my fault that you murdered me at the very first opportunity. ;-P

*hugs* patzer.

*hugs Echo*

Sorry about murdering you... if it's any consolation, I won't do that this game :wink:

maident wrote:(That's assuming SIrG is telling the truth of course).


Why wouldn't he?

Okay, maybe he's an alien or zombie. But town definitely wouldn't fakeclaim cultist.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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maident
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby maident » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:08 am UTC

After thinking it through some more, yeah, it doesn't make sense for him to fakeclaim. The town have the majority and only really have two enemies to root out in order to win.

Vote: SirGabriel

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Vytron
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:56 am UTC

*hugs... people*

(I wanted to hug some people but realized some I didn't hug may feel bad, so actually, everyone wanting to hug me is free to do so!)

((just beware, I won't let go until it gets awkward, so hug me at your own risk!))

So, um...

I'm not the cultist...

<_<

>_>

I guess this is the reason originally people couldn't play to win, huh?

Vote: SirGabriel

I still don't get it, a cultist would attempt to win as cult, and if they are caught and lynched they can try to win with town, isn't it? I guess I'm used to playing with people that go for the hardest wincon as that'd be more rewarding (say, winning with the few people you recruit instead of winning with the whole town.)

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:59 am UTC

I may be misinterpreting the rules, but I'm pretty sure we're not told what happens because of the lynch. That is, I don't think we get told what their role was, or what it is now.

Also I don't believe SirGabriel is cultist, I think he is the Alien and is trying to get us to waste the lynch.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:03 am UTC

That wouldn't work, as he'd have suspected we'd have suspected and after he's revealed Alien will be targeted every night.

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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:22 am UTC

Vytron wrote:That wouldn't work, as he'd have suspected we'd have suspected and after he's revealed Alien will be targeted every night.
I don't see anything in the rules suggesting he would be revealed.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:22 am UTC

That's my point.

Will roles be revealed upon lynching?
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Echo244
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Echo244 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:39 am UTC

I see four votes for SirG - SirG, patzer, maident and Vytron. Seven of us, that's hammer, no?
Unstoppable force of nature. That means she/her/hers.
Has committed an act of treason.

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patzer
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:45 pm UTC

My night action:

Spoiler:
Recruit SirGabriel

Backup action: Recruit Echo244
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:46 pm UTC

EBWOP: that spoiler is obviously private and should only be read by Lawrencelot.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Lawrencelot » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:13 pm UTC

End of Day 1 votes:
SirGabriel (4) - SirGabriel, patzer, maident, Vytron

As the town woke up to decide who to lynch, one of the hooded figures stepped forward. "I don't want this anymore. This cult is not for me." Quickly the town hanged SirGabriel, the cultist. Hoping that the mysteries would end and the town would turn back to normal, they all went to bed.

SirGabriel, cultist, lynched Day 1

It is now night until I finish processing all the actions.

Not everyone has pmed me an action: I will choose a random target for them, among all players except for themselves and the lynch target. patzer's target will also be random as it was given after the hammer vote.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Lawrencelot » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:27 pm UTC

After a short rest the town wakes up, refreshed. They soon notice a stranger walking into town. "My name is SirGabriel", the stranger said. "Have you seen those crop circles? I've also heard strange noises from the graveyard this morning." You trust SirGabriel immediately, but you're not sure if the stranger can help you out solving the mysteries...

SirGabriel is vanilla town.

It is now Day 2. 4 votes are required to lynch.

Deadline: Thursday October 22, 20:00h GMT.

Remember to pm me your night actions and backup actions before the deadline and before the hammer vote.

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maident
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby maident » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:29 pm UTC

So anybody have anything to report?

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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:55 pm UTC

maident wrote:So anybody have anything to report?


Well, we'd have to roleclaim in order to report any potential findings. Is that a good idea at the moment?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Vytron
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:22 am UTC

Well, if this is a thing, I consider it a thing I like:

My night action (this is a private spoiler to the mod, do not read):
Spoiler:
Target patzer (unless I targeted her first night, since I have no idea who I targeted - otherwise, target Maident)

Backup: Dr Ug (unless I targeted him first night, since I have no idea who I targeted - otherwise, target Echo).


This is D1 again but with a confirmed town, yay!

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SirGabriel
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:01 am UTC

Okay, cult is permanently eliminated, which changes things a bit:

Shrink should never target anyone. With cult gone, masons are confirmed non-cult, non-zombies. As long as the Shrink targets no one, anyone who leaves the mason group (unless they're lynched) is confirmed zombie. Likewise, anyone the mason group attempts and fails to recruit is confirmed zombie.
Between the masons, the doctor, the cop, and the lynch, I don't think zombies will be much of an issue. Alien might be more difficult, since they can't be converted to town, and I doubt players will be informed when they're probed. If that's correct, then cop results are the only way, other than lynching at random, to fight the alien.

Will players be informed when they are probed?

I would like some discussion of this plan before anyone actually claims, but it seems to me that masons should claim at the beginning of every day: who is in the mason group, who they targeted, whether they were successful, and whether anyone left the mason group. Also, I think the cop should claim whenever their target is probed, infected, or zombie. Even if claiming causes them to be targeted, they'll still be town for at least one more night, perhaps longer if the doctor targets them.

I think our best chance is to get rid of all the zombies before the alien has a chance to probe everyone.

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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:17 am UTC

I have to say, I had assumed we wouldn't be told a role on a lynched player, given they are now confirmed town. If I was designing the game, I would have kept that result unpublished, and I think that would make the game much more interesting. Pretty sure the game is now broken.

So, looks like town will win, so please vote for the Zombie.

Vote: Dr Ug
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:18 am UTC

I also think we should restart the game, and reinstate the "you must play to your current win condition" rule, and not publish the result of lynches. I think that is a better game.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:20 am UTC

I provided a target before end of day, but not before hammer. It was therefore ignored by the mod, not sure if I'll get to know who I targetted, but this pretty much removed any incentive for me to play for my zombie win condition.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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SirGabriel
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:23 am UTC

I'm in favor of restarting the game.

Does town win as soon as the cult and zombies are killed, even if there is an infected townie? If not, can you let Dr Ug know who he infected?

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:33 am UTC

The only other information that's not unambiguous in the rules is what happens if someone is targetted by multiple people in 1 night?
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:40 am UTC

Another broken part is the doctor being notified when they are infected. This means that zombie faction cannot win, as they will never be able to convert the doctor - they will just doctor themselves every time they are infected, and thus never become zombie.

You need to remove the part about them being informed when they're infected.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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SirGabriel
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:42 am UTC

Dr Ug wrote:Another broken part is the doctor being notified when they are infected. This means that zombie faction cannot win, as they will never be able to convert the doctor - they will just doctor themselves every time they are infected, and thus never become zombie.

You need to remove the part about them being informed when they're infected.

The zombies can still win, they just need to get the doctor lynched.

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:56 am UTC

And if the doctor claims? (which if I was the doctor about to be lynched, I would do)?
Where did my old signature go? :(

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SirGabriel
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:00 am UTC

Dr Ug wrote:And if the doctor claims? (which if I was the doctor about to be lynched, I would do)?

The zombies and cult together would need to have the majority in order to get the doctor lynched. It might be difficult to get it to work, but not impossible.

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:13 am UTC

Zombies would need the majority. Cult can just recruit the doctor. (and he retains his doctor-ness). It is actually in everyone (except Zombie) to keep the doctor unlynched. And in the current setup the only way to de-doctor the doctor is the lynch. It's actually safe for him even to claim, as there is no NK (the usual weakness for claiming doctor). The lynch on the doctor would never happen, and therefore zombies can't win.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Dr Ug
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:17 am UTC

Aliens are also too powerful in this setup. There are many scenarios in this setup that could prolong the game indefinitely (such as the above situation with the doctor and zombies), and I think it all too easy for Alien to just play out the game and win. There are too many potential loops the game can enter.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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maident
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby maident » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:27 am UTC

Did not expect that... (And yes, the answer to claiming was a yes).
Vote: Dr Ug

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patzer
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby patzer » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:36 am UTC

My night action:
(private spoiler to Lawrencelot, do not read)

Spoiler:
Recruit SirGabriel

Failing this, recruit maident


Vote: Dr Ug

And I support restarting the game with better rules.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Vytron
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:49 am UTC

Dr Ug wrote:I also think we should restart the game, and reinstate the "you must play to your current win condition" rule


I disagree, because, you then get this:

-Cultist tries hard to win with their current win condition, almost does it, but loses in the end.

-Cultist is careless, bad at it, and gets lynched. They win with town.

"You must play to your current win condition" means putting less effort can lead to a win.

Under the current system the best thing a Cultist can do is getting lynched and winning with town, this is the problem.

I guess I have no idea about how to solve the problem, but I guess the Cultist getting TWO LOSES if they are lynched, so winning with town leaves them with ONE LOSS, or something like that, would work. I.e. Losing as Cult and winning with town isn't the same as just winning with town.

Vote: Dr Ug

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Day 1

Postby Lawrencelot » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:36 pm UTC

I'm on my phone but I've kept you guys waiting long enough.

Dr Ug was zombie and echo the alien was converted to the masons so town (everyone) wins!

I obviously didn't think this through enough, that's why I was looking for help before the game started. I'm glad you guys want to restart the game instead of abandon it, so let's agree on the rule changes first. Proposal:
1. If your win condition is changed you get 1 penalty point. When a team achieves their win condition, only the team members with the lowest number of penalty points wins.
This could lead to players trying not to let their team win, but in other ways than what happened now, which hopefully keeps things interesting.
2. Doc is not informed when infected.
3. Lynch target is not revealed, except unless alien is lynched.

Thoughts or additions?

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Echo244
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Restarting...

Postby Echo244 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:51 pm UTC

From being on the extraterrestrial end of things, the Alien is a kind of unstable role. If they manage a successful mind probe of someone, yay, power redirected, all sorts of trickery.

But everyone's got a power; the chances of not being hit feel slim. And once you're outed, all it takes is someone with a power to hit you each day - probably a zombie bite - and you're still in the game, but completely shut out from the initial victory condition. You've just got to get picked up by the masons or the cult, and stay with them, no Shrinking or rival recruitment. Which almost certainly ends up leading one of the human factions.

I dunno where I'm going with this. But playing to the initial win condition is an absolute shot in the dark - in some ways, fair, but in others, it's too easy to get shut out of the game. I honestly don't know how you'd balance the role - probe every other night, but now unblockable? I don't know enough to balance things, I just feel that as it is, either you get a couple of probes in and the number powers redirected gives you a good chance to set more, or you get blocked for a few days, lynched, outed, and from then on, will get blocked every time, and have to hope for getting picked up by either Cult or Masons while wiping the other group out.

I don't know enough about Mafia to be helpful, I just think it's a very difficult role to play to as it is.
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Vytron
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Re: Deathless Mafia - Restarting...

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:08 pm UTC

@Lawrencelot: Sounds good (then again, the outcome of this game took me by surprise as well, so who knows.) The way I imagined a deathless game is, people dying, and then coming back as a different person, but their loses as their original role stands, so Cult and Zombie don't commit suicide. Hopefully penalty points would work.

@Echo244: I think hard roles to play balance themselves. This is like the Serial Killer in a game with +20 players, you can't really do much to help the SK, as they'll have to avoid investigations, night kills, suspicion, and even if they manage all that, they'll probably end in an ending with 3 players against 2 townies, and have to convince one of them to vote the other. That's extremely difficult but when someone does it they become legendary and people keep talking about their serial killer feats. I know the players that I consider the strongest mafia players have been those that got the SK role and won with it, with badassery, so I think a role such as the Alien, if it's bad because of its difficulty, it's great by providing the most rewarding wincon, if someone manages to win with it.


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