Draculafia! N3 - Nosferatu - GAME OVER - LIVING VICTORY

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby moody7277 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:09 pm UTC

To answer Vytron's question and confirm jimbob's first guess, I did in fact jail jimbob. Why? Claimed independent with a kill. I didn't want extra deaths to happen. jimbob, if you had been at liberty, who would have died? What concerns me most is that we've had three out of four deaths Undead or associated anti-town, and we're still here.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby moody7277 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:13 pm UTC

Addendum: the fact the D3 title translates to "reunited in death" would seem to support dimchka's hypothesis.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:26 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:To answer Vytron's question and confirm jimbob's first guess, I did in fact jail jimbob. Why? Claimed independent with a kill. I didn't want extra deaths to happen. jimbob, if you had been at liberty, who would have died? What concerns me most is that we've had three out of four deaths Undead or associated anti-town, and we're still here.

Me (presuming Vytron is telling the truth), and nobody else. I don't have a kill any more (it was only against Dracula). If I'd been able to kill someone and had to, it would probably have been you or Dimochka, as my two scummiest reads at the end of yesterday behind Misnomer, though I'd have been tempted to withhold my kill given the option, to try to get more results from investigations.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby dimochka » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:24 pm UTC

Perfect.

Vote Jimbob

I copped Jimbob, and he is both undead and scum. The reason I wanted to figure out what moody did BEFORE I claimed was to see if Jimbob would have been able to recruit. Based on everything we see so far, he was not. So I think there is a good chance that the game will be over upon hammer.

However, let's discuss the possibility that Jimbob is NOT the last scum, and there's one more left.

Re: No kill - again, why would cult have a kill in a game with recruiting powers? The way it looks to me - FB was lovers with Misnomer, and we probably blocked the recruit attempt.

EBWOP: I am somewhat surprised that my cop still went through even with the jailing. Moody - from the description on your char, would it makes sense?
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:52 pm UTC

Vote dimochka I am not scum.

This is just wrong. I don't have time to write up a full defence, but I'll try to do it later. I'd encourage everybody to withhold judgement and consider the possible game state if Dimochka is scum and I am not, and what scum!dimochka has to gain by claiming this.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby dimochka » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:31 pm UTC

Yes, no one should hammer and we should continue discussing. With that being said, I think that we got so lucky on D1 that we are actually likely in the situation that there's only one scum left.

For what it's worth, if we truly think that there's only one scum left, lynch me today (to prove that I'm sane AND town), and roleblock/lynch jimbob tomorrow.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:02 pm UTC

Or we lynch Jim and I kill Dim tonight.

It is indeed bizarre that an investigation went through despite the jailing, it's actually possible some redirector is responsible, so it would make sense that they'd redirect Dim to themselves, so no matter who they investigated, they'd get a scum result.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:03 pm UTC

(I guess that was ambiguous, I meant to say the scum!redirector would redirect Dim's investigation towards the scum!redirector)

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby bessie » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:05 pm UTC

I’m going to be busy this week. There has been a death in my family, and I am busy arranging to be away from my home and work, and I am trying to decide on my travel plans.

I am still absolutely certain mpolo is town.

My setup speculation at the end of D2 here was that Misnomer was scum partners with SDK and his lynch would end the game. If the game didn’t end, my first guess was that jimbobmacdoodle had an anti-town independent win condition. So I would vote for jimbob, but I don’t want to end discussion in case there is another scum. I am somewhat puzzled as to how dimochka got a result if moody jailed jimbob. Also, I need to think about whether or not it makes sense for freezeblade and Misnomer to be lovers, because we just raised the potential N1 kills to 5, which is way too many for this game.

More tonight when I get home from work.

Ninja'd by Vytron.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:33 pm UTC

I also send my condolences bessie.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:04 pm UTC

My condolences Bessie.

I'm going to speculate on various setups on my journey home, but my battery is low, so I don't know how far I'll get. Continuation by someone else would be appreciated.

I'm assuming that a) Dimochka is sane, is not lying townie, and was not redirected, nor is an independent . One of us is scum, (possibly both, but I'm going to ignore that). I'm also assuming that recruits aren't successfully blocked by Madge.
Case 1: there is only one scum left. In this case, lynch one of us and jail the other. Town wins.
Case 2: there are two scum left. This would be possible if somehow one of us was able to recruit either N1 or N2.
Case 2.1: dim was another recruiter from start, but only one recruit was allowed per night. In this case, Misnomer was recruited N1 and one of mpolo, moody, Vytron or Madge were recruited N2.
Case 2.1.1: mpolo was recruited. If mpolo kept their powers, this would be possible. Lynching Dimochka would leave us hunting a lone recruit, who may or may not have the ability to recruit. If we lynch Dim and jail me, we can verify if this is the case, with no ill effects. Lynching me and jailing Dim helps, if only Dim can recruit. Otherwise we could end up in 3 v 3 and probable scum victory.
Case 2.1.2: Madge was recruited - same as 2.1.1, but without needing to keep powers.
Case 2.1.3: Vytron was recruited - same as 2.1.1, except that it might leave scum with a recruit and kill, potentially leaving us at not just Lylo, but LVylo (lynch Vytron or lose). Jailing Vytron would prevent LVylo, and leave us in the same case as 2.1.1.
Case 2.1.4: Moody was recruited - in this case, we have to lynch Dimochka, as otherwise scum win, assuming scum keep actions. Recruited Moody could jail Vytron, whilst Dimochka recruits, leaving 3 v 3 and a scum victory after N4. Lynching Dim would be reasonable here, but still leave us at Lylo.
Time and battery are up. Hopefully more later, but not guaranteed.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:35 pm UTC

My condolences, Bessie :(. I hope everything goes smoothly in this tough time.

I am pretty sure from the way my role PM is worded that I'd protect from recruitment with my role.

Jimbob's list above looks to me like he's got more information than he's sharing in the way he's wording things, for example with this part:

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Case 2: there are two scum left. This would be possible if somehow one of us was able to recruit either N1 or N2.


This is weird to me because it seems to pre-suppose that Jimbob/Dimochka are the only scum that are alive in a weird way, it doesn't bring out the possibility of "there are two scum left, Jim/Dim and say Greg, who was scum all along"

The wording of this part is also weird:

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:a) Dimochka is sane, is not lying townie, and was not redirected, nor is an independent .


It doesn't seem like something town would right.

I normally don't pick up on wording things like this which makes me either think I'm particularly alert this morning (...) or it's particularly bad.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby mpolo » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:11 pm UTC

It seems like jimbob is trying to come up with anything to survive, which doesn't look good for him. I would really like an answer from moody of whether he thinks his jailing would have blocked a cop on jimbob.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby moody7277 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:35 pm UTC

I'm a pretty standard jailkeeper, which I think means that no one should be able to get results off the person I jailed. That would seem to indicate that dimochka is lying and we should lynch him.

Vote: dimochka
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:42 pm UTC

oh, wow.... that's a worry.

And it makes perfect sense for scum!cop to wait for everyone else's claims first (though it makes sense for town!cop too).

So either Dim is cop and Jim and moody are both scum
Dim is cop and jim is scum and moody was redirected/roleblocked by scum

Or dim is scum and lied, and jim and moody may or may not be scum.

The problem is, if dim is scum, that means I protected scum last night (perhaps part of the logic of claiming cop), so then why is nobody dead?? I wouldn't think scum would withhold the kill and "pretend" to have targeted dim to make dim look good, but at the same time if I was scum doing that and my number was coming up you can bet your bottom dollar I'd have targeted someone completely unexpected as well so that way town can say to themslevs "oh, looks like with two protective roles scum didn't bother wasting the kill on the cop".

Maybe scum doesn't have a kill? We've gone two nights now without any obviously scummy kills.

I'm thinking lynching dim to test if dim's cop or not (it's looking pretty damn questionable after all), and jailing/RBing/etc jim and/or moody to see what we end up with. (Since if dim is town then jim and moody are likely both scum of some type).
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby dimochka » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:11 am UTC

moody... logically, why would scum.me fake a scum result on someone AFTER that person got jailed? That makes no sense...
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:30 am UTC

dimochka wrote:moody... logically, why would scum.me fake a scum result on someone AFTER that person got jailed? That makes no sense...


This.

Moody, please don't jail Jim again, I think that in this pair Jim is the scummy one.

This is mainly because I refuse to believe a game without a cop. Dim is our cop. It'd really make no sense for scum!Dim to claim that he got an investigative result on someone jailed. It's so intriguing it can't be made up.

I don't know what happened, but we can get rid of both of them if we kill one and lynch the other.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby moody7277 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:54 am UTC

Unvote

At this point I'm not sure who I'd want to jail anyway. I guess I agree that someone is likely the cop, and actually getting a result while the subject is jailed might be allowed given the phrasing of my description.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Madge » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:50 am UTC

Not sure if I posted saying this or not but I protect from all undead actions, so if the undead do recruiting, than I protect from it.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:23 am UTC

moody7277 wrote:actually getting a result while the subject is jailed might be allowed given the phrasing of my description.


Hmmm, interesting.

This makes you look bad, however.

See, the theory was that you, as scum roleblocker, claimed jailer. And how do we tell a jailer and a roleblocker apart? Well, the roleblocker is able to prove its powers by blocking people and making their powers not work. But, it can't make the target not be investigated by a cop, that requires jailing.

But, eh, Jim didn't die, I guess I'm walking in circles, but still, I... I think you being scum would give some explanation to this bizarre situation.

Because you don't look like a jailer at all... perhaps doctor roleblocker? But why do we need two doctors? Maybe FB was a lover, and Jim would have performed the nightkill, but since you knew he could have been killed, you "jailed" him, stopping the mafia kill, but ensuring he and you survive.

This scenario with Moody and Jim being scumbuddies makes a lot of sense, because, with so many people supporting Jim being shoot, I don't see why Moody would save his life, and why Moody would want Dim lynched (he can save Jim again, by "jailing" him or me.)

This is a contradiction:

moody7277 wrote:I'm a pretty standard jailkeeper, which I think means that no one should be able to get results off the person I jailed. That would seem to indicate that dimochka is lying and we should lynch him.

Vote: dimochka


moody7277 wrote:Unvote

At this point I'm not sure who I'd want to jail anyway. I guess I agree that someone is likely the cop, and actually getting a result while the subject is jailed might be allowed given the phrasing of my description.


So if Jim flips scum I want Moody lynched.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:39 am UTC

I could see it as being entirely feasible that scum don't have a kill, and are just recruiters (assuming recruitment is even a thing - I don't think we've had any solid confirmation about it, although I think it's the most likely case).

In response to Madge's comments on my wording - on the first point I think you may have misunderstood me. Case 2 presumes SDK was scum from the beginning with one of me, dim, or Misnomer as a team-mate. One of us was the N1 recruit and either there was a second recruit N1, or more likely in my opinion, the second recruit happened N2. I think your Greg is actually Misnomer, although I might be misunderstanding your misunderstanding! Just to be particularly clear, 2.1 assumes that dimochka was scum from the beginning with recruit powers, and logically Misnomer would have been the N1 recruit. I don't think I mentioned this already, but I doubt very much that there were three scum with recruiting powers at the start.

On the second point, I was trying to make a set of logical statements, but to keep things simple, I wanted to exclude the various cases I could think of where not scum!dimochka could be giving a false result.

Why was I doing that analysis? Because I suspected that we could actually be in Mylo, so I wanted to try and figure out any possible cases we need to avoid to avoid losing. My conclusion so far is that simply lynching me could lose us the game if Dimochka is scum, without too big a stretch of the imagination.

I suppose I should do case 2.2, where I am scum with a recruit and a surviving teammate.
Case 2.2: As case 2.1, but where I am scum and not dimochka. In this case, the only way I could have recruited would have been on N2 if Moody didn't jail me. This would require Moody to lie about who he targeted, which would likely only make sense if he was the recruit. This case is basically the same as case 2.1.4 then.

Lynching Moody would prevent the worst cases for 2.1.4 and 2.2, if you don't know 100% for sure which of Dim or I is scum. Obviously, from my point of view, I know that I am not scum, so it doesn't make sense to do that, since it would leave dimochka able to recruit, if the rest of my assumptions are correct. Dim will presumably say the same thing in reverse. I haven't got time now to look at the impact on the other cases if moody is lynched instead of one of us two, if the situation isn't one of these cases.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby mpolo » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:16 pm UTC

We had both a watcher and a tracker, which could mean that there is no "standard" cop.

What was the rolename on dimochka's cop? Could he be insane?
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:28 pm UTC

Thank you everyone for your condolences, I am very grateful.

Madge, good luck tomorrow, I know you will have a lovely wedding!

dimochka had a living/town result on me and an undead/scum result on jimbob. So from my point of view he has to be a sane cop or scum.

I’m been thinking about all the potential kill power in this game (after possible lovers reveal) and it seems like a lot even with a jailkeeper and doctor. Is it possible the independent roles are bulletproof? That would make sense if moody was lying/blocked, Vytron’s kill failed, and dimochka got a result.

Sorry this is so brief. I should have time for a long post tonight.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:38 pm UTC

Dimochka claimed Detective Cotford. This is what I said previously about his alignment:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I wouldn't be 100% certain of your towniness, based on the Wikipedia article for Dracula the Un-dead, since he initially seems to go around trying to arrest those we have pretty firmly as town.
The same logic could also cast doubts on his sanity. I guess he could be getting random results or a fixed result based on the night or something, as it looks likely that always fails or always succeeds is not the case.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby moody7277 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:53 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Dimochka claimed Detective Cotford. This is what I said previously about his alignment:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I wouldn't be 100% certain of your towniness, based on the Wikipedia article for Dracula the Un-dead, since he initially seems to go around trying to arrest those we have pretty firmly as town.
The same logic could also cast doubts on his sanity. I guess he could be getting random results or a fixed result based on the night or something, as it looks likely that always fails or always succeeds is not the case.


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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby mpolo » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:35 pm UTC

Yeah, reading the wiki on Dracula the Un-Dead, the detective doesn't look all that reliable. Presumably with a lynch and a kill, we can take care of this anyway.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:46 pm UTC

It's very troubling if Dim is town pseudonaive cop and Jim is town, though, because that means lynching one and killing the other just leaves worse off tomorrow...

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:49 am UTC

Our condolences to Bessie for her family's loss.

And our congratulations to Madge on this jubilant day of her wedding!

With that,

Votals:

Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (Vytron, Dimochka)
Dimochka - 1 (Jimbobmacdoodle)

Not Voting - 4 (Bessie, Madge, Mpolo, moody7277)

7 "alive", 4 to lynch.

Deadline on November 24, 11:59 PM EST.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby bessie » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:56 am UTC

Thanks, DJ.

Updated list of roles, powers, claims, and bessie’s guesses.

Town at start of D1
Abraham Van Helsing (Madge), Town Doctor: N1 protected freezeblade, jailed by moody, watched by mpolo (saw moody visit); N2 protected dimochka.
Arthur Holmwood (freezeblade), Town Tracker, Lovers with Misnomer: N1 protected by Madge, tracked bessie (did not visit anyone); N2 no information on target.
Quincey Morris (Vytron) Town Vigilante: N1 killed SDK; N2 targeted jimbobmacdoodle (did not die).
Jonathan Harker (bessie) Mason with mpolo: N1 tracked by freezeblade (did not visit anyone); N2 watched by mpolo (not visited).
Mina Harker (mpolo) Mason with bessie, Town Watcher: N1 watched Madge (visited by moody); N2 watched bessie (not visited).
John Seward (moody), Town Jailer: N1 jailed Madge (seen by mpolo); N2 jailed jimbobmacdoodle.
Detective Cotford (dimochka), Town Cop: N1 investigated bessie (living town); N2 investigated jimbobmacdoodle (undead scum), protected by Madge.

Independent at start of D1
Renfield (ConMan), Serial Killer.
Jayne Wetherby (jimbobmacdoodle), Huntsman. N1 killed SDK; N2 claimed no action, jailed by moody, copped by dimochka (undead scum), targeted by Vytron (did not die).

Mafia at start of D1
Count Dracula (SDK), unknown powers.
Lucy Westenra (Misnomer), Vampire Minion, Lovers with freezeblade.

My thoughts on recruits (spoilered because it is all speculation).
Spoiler:
Possible N0 recruits (my current belief is that there was no N0 recruit)
Madge - yes
freezeblade – no, from death flavor
Vytron - yes
SirGabriel /bessie – no, unless dimochka is lying
mpolo – no, unless bessie is lying
moody - yes
username/dimochka - yes
jimbobmacdoodle – yes
ConMan - yes
coldblood/Misnomer - yes

Possible N1 recruits (if there is a recruit I believe it was N1)
Madge – no, unless moody is lying
freezeblade – no, from death flavor
Vytron - yes
bessie – maybe, depends on when dimochka’s action was processed
mpolo – no, unless bessie is lying
moody - yes
dimochka - yes
jimbobmacdoodle - yes
Misnomer – yes (if he didn’t start as vampire)

Possible N2 recruits (I’m doubtful there was a N2 recruit)
Madge – yes
Freezeblade – no, from death flavor
Vytron - yes
bessie – no, unless mpolo is lying
mpolo – no, unless bessie is lying
moody - yes
dimochka - yes
jimbobmacdoodle – no, unless moody is lying

Other thoughts.

jimbobmacdoodle – mpolo was not recruited. I am absolutely certain. So you should redo your analysis as either both of us or neither of us as scum, but not with only one of us as scum. By the way, none of your cases are with me as the recruit. Why?

dimochka wrote:moody... logically, why would scum.me fake a scum result on someone AFTER that person got jailed? That makes no sense...

If dimochka is scum I think he could have invented a better fake cop result.

moody7277 wrote:Naive cop whose naivete trumps what should be a no result? Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.

Agree. Except I don’t have the t-shirt.

I’m leaning toward voting jimbobmacdoodle for the following reasons:
1. Because I still believe he has an independent win condition that is preventing the game from ending.
2. His failure to understand/acknowledge my concerns that his claimed win condition is anti-town (lyncher for Quincey that wins with town).
3. Because he may have been recruited N1 or somehow changed to a vampire when he killed SDK, which would make sense with dimochka’s cop result.
4. D3 content pings me but my scumdar is unreliable so this is my weakest reason and last on this list.

If we lynch jimbobmacdoodle and the game doesn’t end, I believe Vytron, moody, or dimochka was recruited N1 but I don’t know which one.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby mpolo » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:29 pm UTC

I think I am going to vote for jimbob, as moody has allowed for the possibility of the cop going through his jailer power. However, that puts him at L-1, so I have to hold off, I think.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:49 pm UTC

Sorry for not having posted anything of real substance in the last few days. Smalltown's day ticking over has kind of kept me distracted when I've had time for Mafia over the last little while.

bessie wrote:jimbobmacdoodle – mpolo was not recruited. I am absolutely certain. So you should redo your analysis as either both of us or neither of us as scum, but not with only one of us as scum. By the way, none of your cases are with me as the recruit. Why?
I honestly don't know how you are absolutely certain re. mpolo not being a recruit, unless of course you have other information you haven't revealed, but I don't think it matters much as most of the logic for the cases I made earlier have the same results whether Madge was a recurit or mpolo. I didn't include you in any of the 2.* cases, since I can't see a case where it could physically make sense in the possibilities I looked at: 2.1.* has Dimochka as a recuiter, with SDK as team mate at the start. This means that the N1 recruit had to have been Misnomer, meaning that the only way you could be scum in this scenario is if Mpolo was lying about who he watched N2. There wouldn't be much point of that, unless he was scum, which doesn't fit with the other assumptions. The same applies for 2.2, or if Misnomer was a starting team-mate and Dimochka was able to recruit after that. Consequently, in any of the cases I looked at, I can't see you as being scum, since at no point could you have been recruited.

My aim with the cases was to outline the possible worst case scenarios, and how we could potentially avoid them all. Assuming that Dimochka either is scum or has a correct result, it is actually possible to lose tonight if town lynches the wrong player of me or dimochka, as outlined earlier. As an alternative, we could lynch moody. This would of course leave at least one scum alive, with a recruit (assuming Madge doesn't successfully block it), and thus at least 2 scum going into the next day, unless Vytron got lucky with a kill. Potentially, we would lose by lynching Moody if one of the other 2.* cases were true, and Vytron didn't successfully kill scum, so it's probably not a good idea.

@Bessie, if your current belief is that there was no N0 recruit, do you believe that SDK started with a scum team-mate?

For the record, I can't see a case with 3 scum at the start and a recruit. In that case, I could see killing scum being a possibility with a lucky jailkeeper or doctor, but I reckon recruits are more likely.

Since I know that 2.2 is not the case, I recommend lynching dimochka, and have one of Vytron or moody deal with me tonight. I'd be willing to accept being killed at night, so that my name is cleared, by the start of D4, and then if the game is still going on the remaining town can try to find whoever the N2 recruit was, assuming dimochka flips scum. Of course, it's possible that we'll both flip town (or rather town-aligned indie in my case), if there's a redirector or dimochka is naive/insane in some way, so in that case I'll have to trust in everyone's abilities to find whoever is left.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:58 pm UTC

Surely, lynching town today and hoping I catch scum at night makes no sense, since we should have lynched whoever I'd kill at night already.

The possibility of you and Dim being town makes me not want to kill one and lynch the other, and I don't like Dim's being dead at all. I was convinced that he was town when he revealed the result on you despite the jailing, and Moody contradicted himself just to confirm that Dim could have gotten his result. This would be beautiful on a Dim+Moody team, but with moody wanting to lynch Dim I don't believe this is the case.

So I think it's most likely that Dim is just sane, and that you're doing your best to convince us to not lynch you, but I think you should have died yesterday night anyway.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby dimochka » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:15 pm UTC

So I'm pretty sure we only have one scum left, and it's very likely jim. With that being said, if somehow you think both moody and I are scum, here's a really risky play (I haven't thought through it fully, so it may not make sense to do):
1. lynch jimbob
2. moody jails me
3. vytron kills moody (we would need to confirm that I would still be jailed)

then if we're not yet done then i'm guessing lynch vytron? If we get to that point and we still haven't won, I feel that scum deserves this game.

Also, Jimbob - if you are the recruiter, lynching me and killing you at night does NOT solve the problem. You could still recruit at that point and have a shot at winning. I thought you would have pointed this out explicitly either regarding me or you, but doesn't look like it. Yet another reason I think you're scum.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:27 pm UTC

Yes, lynching a confirmed town would be a bad idea, but we don't know who is town (masons excepted, who seem pretty convinced of each other's towniness). Of course I'm trying to convince you not to lynch me, since I know what my alignment is, and I know that dimochka's result is wrong. From my point of view, this is most likely lying scum, so we should lynch him, before he is able to do anything at night. However, I also know that most people believe me to be anti-town, so if we prolong my life beyond tonight. and assuming the game continues, I'll likely be lynched tomorrow, which at that point just gives scum longer to hide in the shadows. I could easily see surviving scum starting the case against me along the lines of "dimochka and jim tried to bus each other to try to confirm the survivor as town", if dimochka flips scum. If he doesn't, and assuming there's no indication of insanity/redirection, people will likely be looking at me for the same reasons they are today, and to a lesser extent yesterday. Killing me off tonight at least helps prevent discussion being focused too much on me, which at this point is my best hope for a town victory.

If you're referring specifically to the moody lynch idea, I mentioned that this is probably a bad idea. Writing it down just helped to crystallise my belief. Also, again from my point of view, there'd be no reason really to lynch him over dimochka, since there's no risk of us being in case 2.2.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:36 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:So I'm pretty sure we only have one scum left, and it's very likely jim. With that being said, if somehow you think both moody and I are scum, here's a really risky play (I haven't thought through it fully, so it may not make sense to do):
1. lynch jimbob
2. moody jails me
3. vytron kills moody (we would need to confirm that I would still be jailed)

then if we're not yet done then i'm guessing lynch vytron? If we get to that point and we still haven't won, I feel that scum deserves this game.
This plan doesn't work if you are say, scummates with Madge, since that would leave us at 3v2 with you and Madge alive, and Vytron the planned target.

dimochka wrote:Also, Jimbob - if you are the recruiter, lynching me and killing you at night does NOT solve the problem. You could still recruit at that point and have a shot at winning. I thought you would have pointed this out explicitly either regarding me or you, but doesn't look like it. Yet another reason I think you're scum.
Yes, you're right, there is that risk. I skipped it, mostly because I was under the impression that I'd already indicated this earlier, and hadn't gone back through my posts to check, and because I assumed that Vytron had considered the possibility already with his suggestion. That would though leave town at 4v1 (assuming case 1), or 3v2 (assuming case 2.2), with Moody being guaranteed to be scum in the latter of those two cases. This I think is the least dangerous case of all the possible cases that I can see.

I've got to go out now for the rest of the evening, so you'll have to wait for any more responses for a few hours.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby Vytron » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:09 am UTC

Note that if Moody allows who he protects to be investigated, he's more of a Doctor than a jailer. In the case where Moody flips, at any point, town, I'd like to prioritize killing Madge.

In any case, Dim, all plans where Moody is scum and we agree on killing him will fail, as he'd just jail me instead of following with some plan.

I really believe there's only one scum left, what with our perfect record on kills/lynches.

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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby moody7277 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:24 pm UTC

My impression of the timeline: no N0 (we had no hint there might be, so any inclusion of it would be bastardy), we start with 2 scum and Renfield/SK, N1 SDK recruits and is killed, we lynch the other starting scum D2. I am reasonably confident that the recruit ability died with SDK for game size reasons, so I like Vytron believe that we are at one scum left. I know I'm town, Madge could not have been recruited since I jalied her at the only opportunity, and I'm reasonably confident with mpolo and bessie's masonness. That leaves me with Vytron, jimbob, and dim.

On the jailing properties, I was trying to interpret the mafiascum definition, my role PM, and the flavor I get upon a successful jailing, and I'm not sure how an investigation gets through that, so:

Vote: dimochka

To firm up what I said earlier, I will not be jailing tonight.
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby mpolo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:03 pm UTC

Are you Seward, and throw them into the insane asylum?
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby moody7277 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:27 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:Are you Seward, and throw them into the insane asylum?


Yes on the name, not exactly on the method (the jailed person is sealed in a room).
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Re: Draculafia! D3 - In Morte Conivngentvr

Postby dimochka » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:38 pm UTC

moody - if i get lynched tonight, you NEED to jail someone. If we have a recruiting role which we probably do (and I think it's Jim), not jailing that role could very well cost us the game.
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