Smalltown Werewolf PYP - F is for Finished!

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby ConMan » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:27 pm UTC

Wow. Well, now we've got a *lot* to talk about. And for all my doubts, I guess now's the time to run through Sungura's scumlist to see if it offers any additional hints.

Contentful post will be forthcoming.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:04 pm UTC

No time to do anything more than a quick claim, as I am on my way to bed.

My night action returned 3 scum voting for freezeblade last night.

I am not under mind control.

I think that if there's a committee member other than roadierich who accepted Echo's proposal, they should claim.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:22 am UTC

Quick post from the train.

I killed patzer (sorry Sabrar).
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Madge » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:25 am UTC

Not under mind control.

Freezeblade's lynch train:
Sungura(town), moody7277(town), Lawrencelot, Sabrar(town), patzer(town but is a werewolf), Echo244, mpolo, zombie!Dimochka(scum), Van, znirk, Snark

Means there's two scum in:
Lawrencelot, Echo, polo, van, znirk and Snark
(or one if patzer's role made him show up as scum in this investigation)

Not having a vote would normally make me feel less pressure, but that said, now I have a kill tonight, I'm going to be sweating bullets all day while I try to figure out how to use it on. We have a fairly good lynch record (I think- I don't remember d1 lynch sorry guys) so I might put my kill to an underline vote, wherein I take care of one of the top two or three targets.

Reminder for people with investigations to please submit draft investigations (a normal one and a backup for if your target gets lynched) right away, that way if anything happens to keep you away from this forum (which should be the most important thing in your life, seriously) you'll still have a result tomorrow.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:31 am UTC

Madge wrote:(or one if patzer's role made him show up as scum in this investigation)

Good point.

Do patzer and Madge's roles make them count as anti-town for jimbob's investigations regardless of their actual alignment?

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:42 am UTC

So now that we know there were 2 scum on the wagon and that I have a good track record this game to the point where I'm disconnected from wolves/aliens can we off Znirk?

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:58 am UTC

So, assuming jimbob's results are accurate, we have the following possibilities:

1. If patzer counted as "Town", then there are two scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van, Djehutynakht} and three in {Lawrencealot, Echo, mpolo, Van, Znirk, Snark}, meaning that one of the following is true:
1.A Djehutynakht is town, there are two scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van} and one in {Lawrencealot, Echo, Snark}
1.B Djehutynakht is scum, there is one scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van} and two in {Lawrencealot, Echo, Snark}

2. If patzer counted as "Scum", then there is one scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van, Djehutynakht} and two in {Lawrencealot, Echo, mpolo, Van, Znirk, Snark}, meaning:
2.A Djehutynakht is town, there is one scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van} and one in {Lawrencealot, Echo, Snark}
2.B Djehutynakht is scum, there are no scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van} and two in {Lawrencealot, Echo, Snark}

Lawrencealot has been confirmed town, so there *must* be at least one scum in {Echo, Snark} as long as jimbob isn't lying (or had his results otherwise muddled, which I can't see a means of happening since Nobody's ability requires a targeted action).

If Nobody targeted someone who was voting for the lynch target, would that affect the count of anti-town reported to Jimmy?
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:59 am UTC

Also, not being mind controlled.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D1: A is for Anarchy

Postby Snark » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:44 am UTC

Not mind controlled.

Night 1
Calvin/crucialityfactor - Said Sabrar cannot chat. Mind controlled to vote patzer.
Heather/Van - Nursed znirk.
Iggy/Snark - Targetted freezeblade.
Jimmy/jimbob - Says 2 of Sungura, znirk, mpolo, Van, patzer, Djehutynakht are nontown.
Karl/znirk - Withheld.
Luna/patzer - Sayz znirk targetted no one N1.
Marco/HBC - Killed Vytron.
Oscar/roadierich - VoteRoleblocked.
Perry/ConMan. Unknown.
Quenton/mpolo - No night actions failed.
Remus/Dj - No action.
Suzaku/Suzaku - Withheld.
Thomas/frogman - Claim Suzaku town.
Victor/Lawrence - Not claiming action.
Wolfgang/freezeblade - Withheld action.

Night 2
HBC - Killed dimochka.
jimbob - Says 3 of Sungura, moody7277, Lawrencelot, Sabrar, patzer, Echo244, mpolo, zombie!Dimochka, Van, znirk, Snark are scum.
Suzaku - Killed patzer.

Roles
Townies (at least 6) - dimochka, moody dead, 4+ left
Masons (2-3, if present) - weiyaoli, Sungura dead, 1 (Lawrencelot) left
Lovers (2, if present) - patzer, Sabrar dead, 0 left
Werewolves (at least 5) - Vytron, Opus, crucialityfactor dead, 2+ left
Lone Wolf (0-2) 0-2 left
Aliens (2-4) - freezeblade, zombie!Dimochka dead, 1-2 left
Druids (2, if present) 0 or left
Hesitant Jester (0-2) 0-2 left
Sibling Survivors (2-3, if present) 0 or 2-3 left
Traitor(at least 1) 1+ left
That makes 4 Town, 1 Mason, 2 Werewolves, 1 Alien, 1 Traitor left for sure. Plus 5 more roles in the group [Town, Werewolf, Lone Wolf, Alien, Druid (pair), Jester, Survivor (group), Traitor].

Players (living):
1. Suzaku as Suzaku the Samurai
2. Lawrencelot as Victor the Vegetarian Butcher
3. SirGabriel as Father Patrick the Franciscan Priest
5. Diemo Madge as Xela the Xenomorph
6. YOLOSWAG as Marco the Meticulous US Marine
7. mpolo as Quenton the Quality Assurance Lab Worker
10. ConMan as Perry the Perfectly Ordinary Fellow
11. frogman Echo244 as Thomas the Tenure-Track Professor
12. Dr Ug as Darryl the Drug-taking Dog
14. Djehutynakht as Remus the Ranger
16. van as Heather the Hospital Administrator
20. RoadieRich as Oscar the Original GangsterTM
21. jimbobmacdoodle as Jimmy the Janitor
22. Snark as Iggy the Irrelevant Idiot
26. Znirk as Karl the Karateka

Players (dead):
24. Opus_723 as Ulysses the Undersea Explorer - lynched D1, Werewolf
25. weiyaoli as 'Y' the Yearning Spy - killed N1, Mason
13. Vytron as Zenith the Zombie - killed N1, Werewolf
19. Dimochka as Elmo the Exquisite Eagle - killed N1, Townie
4. SDK Freezeblade as Wolfgang the Welder - lynched D2, Alien
8. moody7277 as Albert the Archaeologist - killed N2, Townie
9. crucialityfactor as Calvin the Crotchety Old Man - killed N2, Werewolf
15. patzer as Luna the Lycanthrope - killed N2, Lover
17. Sabrar as Gary the Grieving Widow - died N2, Lover
18. Sungura as Bunny the Bumblebee Bat - killed N2, Mason
23. Faubiguy zombie!Dimochka as Nobody the Nameless - killed N2, Alien

Replacements:
1. Freezeblade - replaced SDK 18/11/2015
2. Madge - replaced Diemo 30/11/2015
3. Echo244 - replaced frogman 25/11/2015
4. zombie!Dimochka - replaced faubiguy 30/11/2015

Conclusions
1. If jimbob is truthful and patzer scum to jimbob (this seems more likely) and Lawrencelot town, 1 of znirk, mpolo, Van, Djehutynakht are anti-town. Also 2 of Echo244, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark are anti-town.
1a. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 0 anti-town, Dj/Echo/Snark are all anti-town.
1b. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 1 anti-town, Dj is not anti-town and exactly one of Echo/Snark is anti-town.
1b. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 2-3 anti-town, this is impossible.

1d. From my POV, either jimbob is lying (could be third party or scum) OR results have been messed with somehow OR Echo is anti-town and at least one of mpolo/Van/znirk are anti-town.

2. There's a very good chance we're outnumbered today despite lynching correctly two days in a row. We need to be careful to not let jesters/scum/traitors dictate the lynch.

3. Player analysis up next. Easier with less players.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D1: A is for Anarchy

Postby Snark » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:58 am UTC

1. Suzaku - Claims withheld N1 and killed town (albeit very suspicious town) N2. Leaning scummy except for Echo's cop so leaning neutral (not sure I trust Echo).
2. Lawrencelot - 100% town unless weiyaoli wanted to throw the game.
3. SirGabriel - Neutral. Could see them as survivor.
5. Diemo Madge - Obvious non-town based on prior behavior. Unsure between jester or scum playing jester.
6. YOLOSWAG - Very townie. Claimed kill on both Werewolf and Alien so either bussing or town-leaning third party or very effective town.
7. mpolo - Neutral.
10. ConMan - Neutral.
11. frogman Echo244 - Claims Suzaku is town, scummy by deduction if jimbob is town.
12. Dr Ug - We'll wait for his results today, but leaning scum based on activity.
14. Djehutynakht - Leaning heavily jester. If Dr Ug and/or Van were roleblocked, will be almost sure of Dj nontown.
16. van - Unsure why they withheld, happy with N1 target. Leaning town.
20. RoadieRich - Depending on claimed target, leaning scum.
21. jimbobmacdoodle - Leaning town which makes me trust results and think Echo is scum.
26. Znirk - I trust HBC so I'm thinking that they're right and Znirk is scum.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Van » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:05 am UTC

No time for a good post tonight.

Not mind controlled.
Didn't withhold, targeted Nobody (Dimochka).
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:04 am UTC

While we continue to wait for some results, time for some analysis! In particular, let's see where there might be hints as to connections (or disconnections) between the known aliens/wolves and the unknown ones, as well as what information we can trust since it's come from confirmed town. This will probably take a while.

D1:
Opus concerned that Van might be wolf/alien and creating anti-town protection racket. Also concerned Suzaku is scum and gives them an extra kill. So both of them are less likely to be wolves.
Vytron happy to vote for Suzaku to enable killingness.
Snark also happy to encourage Suzaku votes (though unable to himself).
[Random aside: Having reached the bit where Snark tried to get the druids to claim, I've now realised that if they *are* in the game, and somehow survive until we're down to about 6 players, then they probably *do* have incentive to claim, especially if they suspect all the remaining players are in the same faction]
jimbob dislikes any move that reduces number of kills (in response to Lawrencealot voting for RR), suggests Law may be alien - since I agree with the position even though Law has since been found townie I'd rank this as slightly townie, or possibly lone wolfie (since more kills does also help their agenda as long as a stray kill doesn't hit them)
CF reckons RR is not alien or wolf (but based on a meta perspective that probably isn't valid). ID'ing a buddy or trying to get him on side?
Opus didn't like everyone voting for Suzaku, although noted that once it starts its better to get more buy-in (so further evidence Suzaku probably not wolf)
frogman proposes investigating Suzaku. Also not a fan of Snark's actions although he recanted upon better understanding (so Snark and Opus probably not same team, hence Snark probably not wolf?)
Van lists who she might target, including Opus because concerned about power being better in hands of anti-town. Less likely to be wolf.
Sungura thinks initial banter b/w Suzuka and SDK might indicate a link
jimbob thinks CF's ability much better in hands of town than scum, thinks scum!SDK would use ability as a double-kill and town!SDK would use it to kill two non-town, isn't concerned about scum!Vytron's ability (I vaguely disagree with some of the conclusions, but overall I have no issue with the analysis he gave)
YOLOSWAG is not a fan of Opus' early posts, FOSes and requests more info - less likely to be wolf
Znirk votes Opus, given slip-ups, defensive behaviour and "got nuthin else"
Snark highly convinced SDK is non-town, potentially anti-town, so Snark probably not alien
Van and Diemo both "not opposed to Opus lynch, but don't have a strong feeling he's scum"

Geez, that's about 5 pages of posts and I still have another 10 to get through. Going to post this for now, and follow up with more when I can. (And yes I know there are already posts that would partially or completely negate several of my "evidence that <BLAH> could be scum" comments.)
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Misnomer » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:12 am UTC

SirGabriel wrote:Do patzer and Madge's roles make them count as anti-town for jimbob's investigations regardless of their actual alignment?

No, as Jimmy's ability isn't an investigation in that sense.

ConMan wrote:If Nobody targeted someone who was voting for the lynch target, would that affect the count of anti-town reported to Jimmy?
It would have no effect.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:04 am UTC

Ok, thanks for that modnomer and SirG for getting the clarification. It had never occurred to me that patzer and Xela would show up as scum to me, despite it making sense.

Freezeblade voters:
Sungura - dead, town, mason
moody7277 - dead, town
Lawrencelot - alive, town, mason
Sabrar - dead, town, lover
patzer - dead, town, lover
Echo244 - alive, unknown
mpolo - alive, unknown
zombie!Dimochka - dead, scum, alien
Van - alive, unknown
znirk - alive, unknown
Snark - alive, unknown

First things first, zombie!Dimochka was scum. That means that of the rest, only 2 are scum, not 3 as I think some people have suggested. From D1, we know that 2 of {DJ, Van, Znirk, mpolo} are scum. From D2, we know that 2 of {Echo, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark} are scum (I'm ignoring Lawrencelot, as I highly doubt he is anything other than mason.

Option 1: DJ is scum, means one of {mpolo, Van, znirk} and one of {Echo, Snark} are scum. The rest are town or third party (note that traitors are third party, lone wolves are not).
Option 2: DJ is not scum, means two of {mpolo, Van, znirk} are scum and none of the others are.

I don't think there's a case where both Snark and Echo are scum, if my results are accurate (and I know of no way that they can be inaccurate). I'll take a look at them both when I get a chance, followed by the other potential scum. Of course, let's not forget that these aren't definitely all the scum, though there is a chance that they could be.

FYI, I will be attending my brother's wedding on Saturday, so will likely not get much chance to post between Friday and Monday lunchtime, GMT.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:06 am UTC

Hey, I'm still here. I'm not mind-controlled. I targeted someone but I'm not claiming who.

Do we still need to look for aliens?

@Madge: in case you're wondering why I'm confirmed town, I claimed mason D1 and weiyaoli confirmed it. We tried to not out Sungura but scum got her tonight anyway.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Echo244 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:35 am UTC

I'm here, I'm not mind-controlled.

We still need to look for aliens, as Misnomer would tell us if they were wiped out, iirc.

If anyone else claims to be on the tenure committee and to have voted in favour, things get interesting with RoadieRich. Otherwise, well, at least we know there are two scum remaining, because I can't see why town would block my research. I'd guess probably both aliens, otherwise there would have been three or more wolves on my tenure committee and that's unbalanced.

RoadieRich is going on my "probably town" list for now, though there's still some uncertainty.

I'll be doing a good readthrough on Snark when I find time.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:07 am UTC

From the flavour post:
Misnomer wrote:The aliens were not all dead.

Committee members rejecting the vote could also easily be lone wolves, or third party (I could definitely see a traitor voting against), who are highly interested in spreading wine everywhere. More thoughts later.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Echo244 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:55 am UTC

Lone wolves or traitors or aliens, but all people we want to lynch. I'm thinking two aliens though, because there's balance there - two wolves (Opus and Vytron), two town (weiyaoli and RoadieRich, I think) and two aliens (please make yourselves known) would make sense to me.

Good shot from YOLO on the zombie!Dimochka kill. YOLO's either town or possibly lone wolf at this point, and given his record of neatly murdering scum from two different teams and pointing out others, I'm leaning town (or at least thinking that keeping him around and murdering scum is a good plan).

Very bad shot from Suzaku. I mean, really, patzer and Sabrar were all-but claimed. If it wasn't for the investigation result I'd be putting you on a probably-scum list.

More, particularly looking at Snark, when I find time. I'll also take a good look at Znirk as YOLO's suggested next target.

Also... woo, lots of kills going on.

freezeblade lynched
zombie!dimochka killed by YOLOSWAG
Sungura killed by ?
crucialityfactor killed by ?RoadieRich as YOLOSWAG requested? - worth looking at the "terrible reasons people came up with to not have him shot" that YOLO mentioned.
moody killed by ?
patzer (and Sabrar) killed by Suzaku.

That suggests wolves plus a lone wolf filling in the gaps. All those kills are still active today, plus madge gets a kill. That's a lot of murdering potential tonight.

Recommendations for investigation targets are welcome, though until my tenure committee is trimmed down a bit, I doubt I'll get anything. Though if they didn't like this font, next time I'll use Comic Sans for my proposal... see how they like that one...
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:56 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:Lone wolves or traitors or aliens, but all people we want to lynch. I'm thinking two aliens though, because there's balance there - two wolves (Opus and Vytron), two town (weiyaoli and RoadieRich, I think) and two aliens (please make yourselves known) would make sense to me.

Interesting point, but I'm not sure it means anything.

Was membership in the tenure committee assigned randomly regardless of alignment?

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:07 pm UTC

Some thoughts:
Interesting that 2 people voted against Echo's investigation both days. We (OK, I) kind of assumed that the two revealed scum members of the committee voted against on D1, presumably (fmpov, of course) to prevent her from confirming me town. Wonder now if that's not the case.

I can't see much reason for town!anyone to block Echo's investigation, unless they have a very strong suggestion that she's scum (and even then, see my previous posts about scum-controlled investigations). Scum could have wanted to block an investigation on scum!RR (iff they're on the same team; scum team A want to kill scum team B as much (if not more) than town), or might have wanted town to think they were blocking it on scum!RR when in reality he's town!RR. Or just general wine and chaos, of course.
So that net doesn't trawl up much information, but it could be useful later.

Sabrar was town, posted quite a lot of analysis, and (importantly) wasn't killed as part of a scum gambit. As such, his views on who's scummy/townie are probably worth more than the average dead townie (who could have been killed by scum either because they were right or because they were wrong).

Ninja:
Echo244 wrote:Very bad shot from Suzaku. I mean, really, patzer and Sabrar were all-but claimed. If it wasn't for the investigation result I'd be putting you on a probably-scum list.
Sabrar spent an entire, long, post rebutting the links between him and patzer. I'm not going to accept responsibility for believing it.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D1: A is for Anarchy

Postby Snark » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:15 pm UTC

Misnomer wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:Do patzer and Madge's roles make them count as anti-town for jimbob's investigations regardless of their actual alignment?

No, as Jimmy's ability isn't an investigation in that sense.
Jimmy/jimbob - Says 2 of Sungura, znirk, mpolo, Van, patzer, Djehutynakht are nontown.
jimbob - Says 3 of Sungura, moody7277, Lawrencelot, Sabrar, patzer, Echo244, mpolo, zombie!Dimochka, Van, znirk, Snark are scum.

Conclusions
1. If jimbob is truthful and patzer TOWN to jimbob and Lawrencelot town, 2 of znirk, mpolo, Van, Djehutynakht are anti-town. Also 3 of Echo244, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark are anti-town.
1a. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 0 anti-town, this is impossible.
1b. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 1 anti-town, Dj/Echo/Snark are all anti-town.
1c. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 2 anti-town, Dj is not anti-town and exactly one of Echo/Snark is anti-town.
1d. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 3 anti-town, this is impossible.

1e. From my POV, either jimbob is lying (could be third party or scum) OR results have been messed with somehow OR Echo is anti-town and Dj is not anti-town and exactly two of mpolo/Van/znirk are anti-town.

As much as I don't want a potential jester having an unblockable NK and I want to lynch Madge today, I'm probably going to reread and vote between jimbob and echo based on investigation results. Still need Dr Ug's and roadierich's and mpolo's results from N2.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D1: A is for Anarchy

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:21 pm UTC

Snark wrote:Also 3 of Echo244, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark are anti-town.

Only 2. zombie!dimochka was one of the 3 anti-town.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 pm UTC

@Snark - here's a quick question for you that occurred to me overnight, but I only just thought of again: why did you choose to wait until you could hammer to vote? Surely, if you were planning on voting anyway it didn't matter whether you placed the hammer or not?
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Misnomer » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:30 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:Was membership in the tenure committee assigned randomly regardless of alignment?

Yes, it was entirely randomly assigned (the only condition being that Thomas himself could not be on his own committee).
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:32 pm UTC

Oh, one thing I missed before on the rejections for Thomas/Echo's investigation.
A non-submitted result counts as a rejection, so they could have just been missing!someone, regardless of alignment.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D1: A is for Anarchy

Postby Snark » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:49 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:
Snark wrote:Also 3 of Echo244, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark are anti-town.

Only 2. zombie!dimochka was one of the 3 anti-town.
Ok. Fixing this. ConMan made this mistake as well, so his results are also off.

Misnomer wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:Do patzer and Madge's roles make them count as anti-town for jimbob's investigations regardless of their actual alignment?

No, as Jimmy's ability isn't an investigation in that sense.
Jimmy/jimbob - Says 2 of Sungura, znirk, mpolo, Van, patzer, Djehutynakht are nontown.
jimbob - Says 3 of Sungura, moody7277, Lawrencelot, Sabrar, patzer, Echo244, mpolo, zombie!Dimochka, Van, znirk, Snark are scum.

Conclusions
1. If jimbob is truthful and patzer TOWN to jimbob and Lawrencelot town, 2 of znirk, mpolo, Van, Djehutynakht are anti-town. Also 2 of Echo244, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark are anti-town.
1a. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 0 anti-town, this is impossible.
1b. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 1 anti-town, Dj is anti-town and exactly one of Echo/Snark is anti-town.
1c. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 2 anti-town, Dj/Echo/Snark are all not anti-town.
1d. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 3 anti-town, this is impossible.

1e. From my POV, either jimbob is lying (could be third party or scum) OR results have been messed with somehow OR Echo/Dj have the same anti-town/non-anti-town status.

Which is much less information.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Znirk » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:07 pm UTC

Not mind-controlled. No night action (nurse).

Investigation denial might yet be due to inactive commitee members (non-votes count as NO votes). Still strange though. Is RR being defended? Are scum sowing confusion?

I had forgotten about people giving predetermined results to investigation. Good thought about that, may throw the whole jimbob situation off again. (Ninja:) Turns out it doesn't. Thanks to Snark for running some permutations, I can't see anything wrong in them.
Snark wrote:1a. If mpolo/Van/znirk have 0 anti-town, this is impossible.

I'm not anti-town, and I'm fairly sure that Van isn't either. I have no strong opinion on mpolo, but to me the most likely explanation is still that Jimbob is lying scum: a risky but confusing tactic, probably designed to buy time for aliens.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:So now that we know there were 2 scum on the wagon and that I have a good track record this game to the point where I'm disconnected from wolves/aliens can we off Znirk?

Except I don't think we know that, see above.

I wrote a quick response to your concerns yesterday before deadline. Are you terminally convinced of my guilt, or would it help if I add anything to this?

Also: explain what you mean about your track record? Mainly what I remember from you (without detailed rereading) is a shotgun approach to the FoS to generate discussion (so probably not team-scum), but also choosing to kill twice when you have a choice of three night actions. My gut guess would be lone wolf, now trying to use the lynch as his third kill per day.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby mpolo » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:17 pm UTC

Not a lot of time here: but I actually got results last night.

A mind control attempt on Sungura failed.
A nurse recruitment attempt on zombie!dimochka failed.

Again, actions caused by the user being dead were not included in this list.

Sungura's list of suspicions is probably well worth looking at, but as she herself said, not simply taken as gospel.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:25 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:A mind control attempt on Sungura failed.

Interesting. Given her fairly harmless ability, I suspect the aliens were trying to force her not to hide tonight so that someone could kill her. It also probably means the remaining aliens were afraid of her scumhunting ability. I would recommend looking closely at people she suspected of being alien (unfortunately, I don't have time to do that at the moment, but I'll try to get to it later).

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:44 pm UTC

Znirk, I meant how my N1 kill was a werewolf and N2 was an alien. So I'm unaligned with them and it'd have to be argued that I killed 1 of my own partners which would fly in the face of either of those wincons.

That said, I'm a bit confused regarding this scenario about jimbob's power. He's seemed pretty town to me and I'm inclined to lynch off his findings after the mod responds to Gabriel's question. I will hopefully have time to reread because my strongest scumreads are all dead. Znirk saying that English is his second language is worth consideration because I remember his tone was what concerned me in the first place.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:47 pm UTC

Misnomer wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:Do patzer and Madge's roles make them count as anti-town for jimbob's investigations regardless of their actual alignment?

No, as Jimmy's ability isn't an investigation in that sense.

ConMan wrote:If Nobody targeted someone who was voting for the lynch target, would that affect the count of anti-town reported to Jimmy?
It would have no effect.

Is this the question you weren't sure about Yoloswag? Patzer showed up as non-scum to me according to that response.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:53 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:Again, actions caused by the user being dead were not included in this list.

How about actions caused by the target dying?

Let's look at Sungura's list, it's probably pretty accurate if both werewolves/lone wolves and aliens are afraid of her. Unfortunately I don't have time for that atm.

I should add to that, as I was communicating with Sungura in private. Sungura thought Roadierich is town, but was not 100% sure. One reason was the list of kill targets he gave in response to my question, and for some reason Sungura thought that including her in the list was a pro-town move (probably because it adds beer for scum), and the other players on that list of 4 were scummy in Sungura's eyes.

Will look into my communication with Sungura later, but basically all her thoughts were in her scumlist, except for this one about Roadierich maybe.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:59 pm UTC

Okay, Sungura's reads might not be as helpful as I'd hoped. She had freezeblade, dimochka, and Yoloswag as aliens; freezeblade was already dead at the beginning of the night, Yoloswag took credit for an alien kill, and dimochka died overnight. The aliens could have just targeted Sungura to try to protect dimochka or out of fear she would eventually identify the rest of them.
Also, I noticed that Snark, Dr Ug, and ConMan are all absent from Sungura's most recent reads list, not sure if that means anything

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby mpolo » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:04 pm UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:
mpolo wrote:Again, actions caused by the user being dead were not included in this list.

How about actions caused by the target dying?


I clarified this by PM with the mod. If the target died, it was reported as a failed action. That is, we don't have any direct information about possible roleblocks/doctors or the like, as both targets died.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby RoadieRich » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:37 pm UTC

Well, that didn't turn out at all how I expected.

I killed Sungura. Her play didn't match up with how I was used to her playing as town. (I had previously mentioned that she pinged me a little here).

I'm not under mind control.

Assuming the jimbob is telliung the truth, we know one of {znirk, mpolo, van} must be scum. This gives four people to look into (those three, and jimbob). I will take a look at them and hopefully get some analysis up later.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Echo244 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:21 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:freezeblade lynched
zombie!dimochka killed by YOLOSWAG
Sungura killed by RoadieRich
crucialityfactor killed by ?
moody killed by ?
patzer (and Sabrar) killed by Suzaku.


So we have forces unknown killing CF, who was a wolf, and moody who was town. Fits with my wolves-plus-lone-wolf-plus-aliens-remaining theory. But it's looking a bit messier, wolves fighting among themselves and town doing much the same thing...

I read the same post as Suzaku, and while on the surface it was a rebuttal, the last paragraph (to me) made it sound much like either Lovers or Sibling Survivors, and as with Sungura, I was comfortable with either. Maybe I skimmed the wall of text a bit more and zeroed in on the last paragraph. Anyway, nothing we can do about it now.

My re-reads will have to come tomorrow, I'm afraid, I'm out of time tonight.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Djehutynakht » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:08 pm UTC

Alright, it being Day 3, killing the rest of the aliens should now be our top priority, as I believe they invade if we don't get them all by the end of tomorrow. But getting two in one night is... favorable.

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:46 pm UTC

Ok I want to vote Roadierich now, any thoughts before I do so?

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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D1: A is for Anarchy

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:15 pm UTC

Snark wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:
Snark wrote:Also 3 of Echo244, mpolo, Van, znirk, Snark are anti-town.

Only 2. zombie!dimochka was one of the 3 anti-town.
Ok. Fixing this. ConMan made this mistake as well, so his results are also off.

I certainly did. Despite my piece of paper clearly having "A" next to z!Dim, where the other confirmed dead people are marked "T". I did write that post twice, so I suspect I had it right the first time then got distracted the second. So let's double-check the logic ...

Based on Sungura, patzer, moody, Lawrencealot and Sabrar being confirmed town, and zombie!dimochka being scum, then there are two scum in {Znirk, mpolo, Van, Dje} and another two in {Echo, mpolo, Van, Znirk, Snark}. So, with the overlap being {Znirk, mpolo, Van}, we have the possibilities:

1. Dje is scum, one of {Znirk, mpolo, Van} is scum, one of {Echo, Snark} is scum.
2. Dje is non-scum, two of {Znirk, mpolo, Van} are scum, none of {Echo, Snark} are scum.
3. jimbob is lying

Did I get it right this time? If that's the case, then obviously the more worrying group is {Znirk, mpolo, Van}. Hopefully by the time I read through again I'll have a read on at least one of them.
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Re: Smalltown Werewolf PYP - D3: C is for Carnage

Postby Snark » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:37 pm UTC

Yeah your breakdown is equivalent to mine now. Just stated slightly differently.

Lawrencelot wrote:Ok I want to vote Roadierich now, any thoughts before I do so?
Wait for Dr Ug?
I also don't feel great about someone who claimed to kill someone (who I thought was fairly townie) for pretty weak meta reasons, but I'd like to hear from the cop first.
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