Dollhouse Mafia - Game Over

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bessie
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby bessie » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:11 am UTC

My project that was due today…did not go well. I need to spend tonight fixing things. I’ll respond to as much as I can tonight by concentrating on posts since my last content post. This will still be a somewhat unorganized but I will have lots of time this weekend to compose some nice organized analysis.

adnapemit wrote:I was hoping for someone to have an investigation result or more specifically I hoped another player might have investigation abilities and found a scum player. I had a one shot alignment cop ability which I used last night. I used it on Diemo and got a result of town. I want to trust this result but then that means freezeblade was lynched by 3 of town.

I agree with Diemo’s remark here:
Diemo wrote:snap's post is pretty suspicious as well. one-shot cop is an easy claim for scum (after all, they know who scum is, unless they happen to hit the SK or an independent), and she seems really sure that Alpha is not in the mafia. I don't think it is out of the question for him to be in the mafia at all.

My first thought was that I didn’t believe adnapemit because I don’t believe her power is a one-shot cop, but as I was writing this I realized that’s not what she claimed. I would be quite surprised if we only have a single one-shot cop, because it is pretty typical to have a cop in a mafia game, so perhaps someone else has one too or will receive one (maybe from the chair?). But this is just speculation and Diemo already warned somewhere that trying to game the system doesn’t always work.

Some posts about Alpha serial killer:
adnapemit wrote:This strongly suggests it's Alpha or possibly a controlled doll that did the killing. Alpha indeed used a knife to kill lots of people with surgical precision in the show. If it was Alpha then I also think that mafia's kill has been blocked and we have a SK.

dimochka wrote:One quick note that I thought of as I was reading through flavor. It does sound like the cuts come from Alpha so it is likely that we have an SK. I would potentially expect Alpha to be a godfather and have Paul Ballard as a safeclaim (because he took over Paul's personality at a certain point). I could very well be diving too deep into the flavor, but as I said I'd rather this be out in the open.

dimochka wrote:2. Again based on flavor, Alpha would have no reason to work with anyone else. He works with no one. I actually considered the possibility of him being in the mafia and promptly discarded it. Because if he's mafia then he's a lone wolf, which is basically an SK.

No. This:
Sabrar wrote:A lot of the characters had shifting loyalties during the run of the show. Additionally - due to the nature of the series - anyone could be a sleeper agent in theory. Because of this and the fact that I don't want to give an unfair advantage to the players who know the flavor, the characters won't necessarily have the same alignment as in the show (role abilities however follow the show pretty closely).


emlightened wrote:@dimochka: I kind-of doubt that there's a Godfather, but only for one reason: flavour-wise, how come only one of the scum is a Godfather, and not both of them?

Not sure what you mean. Why would two godfathers make more sense than one?

emlightened wrote:Also, if there is a SK, then its a much better idea to kill them off first, then the mafia. Killing one mafia is basically the same as reducing us to two SKs and that, even with perfect town play (assuming no vigs), leads to a definite town loss, if all of the kills hit (4/2/1 -> 2/1/1 -> 1/0/1). I'm NOT saying that we shouldn't look for mafia - this is worst-case, if we do have a SK and no kills get blocked.

How is this definite town loss? You assume that the SK and the mafia will both hit town. And that they both want to hit town. OK, so we determine with magical certainty who is the serial killer and who is mafia, and we lynch the serial killer. Then mafia definitely kills town N2 (assuming we are currently at 4/2/1). D3 we are at 3/2 and mafia can vote as a block on D3. My impression is that you’re trying to distract us from mafia hunting.

emlightened wrote:On that vein, my second guess for a SK would be bessie, after Carlington. Her posts got at Carlington being a SK a lot, and were also rather dismissive in places. A lot of people have waved this away as her being frustrared, but I'm not sure. Besides, it's a lot easier to look townie as a SK than as mafia, due to not knowing as much, and not having anyone to protect.

I think crucialityfactor is the only one that said I was acting frustrated and digging in to Carlington. And I’m not sure what the “this” is in “waived this away” refers to. Is it my suspicions of Carlington? Who besides Carlington has waived this off as not being serious?

emlightened wrote:Considering the potential [4/2/1 with a SK] we're at, is it worth trying to lynch the SK tonight, instead of the mafia?

Hmm. Attempt #2.

emlightened wrote:bessie: Its worth remembering that about two thirds of most of her posts are quotes and newlines, but she's still one of the more active players. She's the first one to bring mention of Alpha to the table. Her next post is a bit wishy-washy, but does give a useful list of potential reasons that there would be only one nightkill, assuming there is a serial killer. I'm sort of getting that she's trying to dissuade from the idea of there being a SK, but only slightly. Not really much content overall, but she repeatedly cites being busy irl, so that's not a knock of anything. Probably town, but that's mainly based off D1.

Yes, I’m mostly quotes and responses today, but I think there is a lot of content in what you are dismissing as “newlines.” And emlightened makes another post trying to associate me in people’s minds with the serial killer. Sure, why not? I’ve been doing it to Carlington this entire game. But how would you even conclude I am trying to dissuade everyone from thinking there is a serial killer in the game? If anything I would think I appear to be tunneling in on there being a serial killer in the game. And seriously, “not really much content overall”? What’s the standard against which you are measuring?

On role name claims – We have Topher and maybe Ivy? No judgement on this because I already spent way too much time researching the flavor for a game where I asked specifically if I could play flavor blind, and was told flavor knowledge wasn’t necessary to play (see Gojoe p. 691). If someone wants to give me a summary on these two characters, fine, but I’m not hopeful because no on responded to my chair question.

Here’s a few ideas about the purpose of the chair in the game (not all mine, some are other’s suggestions). Unfortunately no one responded to my question as to the purpose of the chair on the show.
1. Nothing, the chair reference is flavor only.
2. Used by mafia or serial killer/other indie to kill.
3. Used by mafia for roleblock or investigation.
4. Used by mafia or indie to control/steal/wipe out victim’s power.
5. Used by town for jail/roleblock/investigation.
6. Used by town vig for kill.
7. Used to give a power to another player.

Higher quality and better organized posts coming tomorrow. Now back to work.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Sabrar » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:14 am UTC

Madge will be replacing dimochka. Currently she's on holiday and will start contributing next Monday. Accordingly deadline is extended by 2 days, until next Wednesday 8pm UTC.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby crucialityfactor » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:08 pm UTC

Sorry bessie. I thought I replied to your question about the chair. So, in the show the "dolls" are these blank slate people. No personality no memories no emotions. Just floating along. The chair is used to imprint personalities and skills into the dolls to make them fit the needs of the client. They can be made into any type of person. Pro golfer, martial arts expert, trophy wife, etc. then the chair is used to take away these abilities and return the doll to their blank state.

Topher is actually the one who ran the chair. He is like the science geek genius of the show. In the early stages of the show he can be seen as a bad guy because he is basically treating these humans as toys. But later on in the show he is their ally and empowers the dolls. So he is more ambiguous in his alignment than someone like Alpha.

Ivy is Topher's lab assistant in the show.

So it kinda makes sense that Dimo could be andap's backup. It's a bit of a stretch honestly. But this is not an exact rewrite of the show. So assuming it is the truth, it makes enough sense as it is a bit like a boss/employee relationship. When Dimo said he was a backup, I personally thought of Iris who is literally used as a human backup of the main protagonist Echo. But that does not seem like what is being claimed.

This is all speculative of course because Dimo did not specifically claim who he was or who he was a backup of.

Personally, i am stuggling a bit with the claims we have today. More to come after I get to work.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby adnapemit » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

emlightened wrote:I think I'll vote after dichka's replacement responds to the adnape claim, if those two are connected.

I know nothing of Ivy or their role, if dimochka was claiming Ivy there might not be anything useful to find out.

Day 2 player analysis:

bessie: Focus on working out if a SK is possible and look at emlightened encouraging everyone to look for a SK instead of mafia. bessie voted for mpolo who was town. Even with less players alive and a higher chance of being scum bessie is still looking like the most townie player.

Carlington: suspects me and Diemo and asks for a vanilla town claim but doesn't claim himself(So he's not vanilla or maybe not town). Still has bessie as most town. Didn't vote. Neutral doesn't seem like the right description, I'm not really feeling like he is scum but his opinion of Diemo changed pretty quick.

crucialityfactor: Lot's of analysis, some I agree with, some I don't. Thought that emlightened giving more opinions made her neutral/town . Those opinions are however that everyone was mostly neutral. Overemphasizes bessie calling carlington a SK. Didn't vote. I'm leaning scum.

Diemo: It's hard to ignore the town result I got from investigation but has made lots of mistakes in remembering things (who bessie voted for and who was killed at night). Voted freezeblade, while it would be easier to point out scum because they voted for a town player that got lynched it's still possible that three townies voted for freezeblade. Again I'm not saying neutral but I think but more like scum and town at the same time. It's easy to see Diemo as a godfather but odds are good that he isn't.

dimochka:Claims backup and then claims the role is hinted at in the flavour text with likeliness that it's a claim as Ivy. With dimochka being replaced it will be good to see how Madge deals with the claim. Didn't vote.I would place dimochka neutral.

emlightened: States it'd likely that one of the people who voted for freezeblade is scum. Says either no godfather or both. See's no reason to believe my claim but sees dimochka claim as Ivy as a support to it. @emlightened: is this just because you doubt that someone has the role of Topher?
The doubt of godfather and then the doubt of Diemo's result seems to suggest she thinks Diemo and I are a scum team. Some of her reasoning seems a bit too focused on targeting me without considering the alternatives like others have.
Voted crucualityfactor for inactivity.
She's my top suspect for scum.

Town
-------
adnapemit
bessie
dimochka
carlington
Diemo
crucialityfactor
emlightened
-------
Scum
Empress adnapemit "Nancy" "Time Panda"
[adnapemit|timepanda]
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby emlightened » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:25 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:
emlightened wrote:I think I'll vote after dichka's replacement responds to the adnape claim, if those two are connected.

I know nothing of Ivy or their role, if dimochka was claiming Ivy there might not be anything useful to find out.

[...]

emlightened: States it'd likely that one of the people who voted for freezeblade is scum. Says either no godfather or both. See's no reason to believe my claim but sees dimochka claim as Ivy as a support to it. @emlightened: is this just because you doubt that someone has the role of Topher?

I don't doubt that someone has the role of Topher, at least not more than any other role. I didn't particularly expect you to know about dimo/Ivy, but I do expect him to know about your role, which Is why I'm waiting on that before I decide on whether to vote on you.

I don't think, beyond increasing the likelihood that someone is Topher, that dimo's claim supports yours. You could quite easily fake a claim, and a one-shot cop is one of the easiest and least risky to claim.

bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:Considering the potential [4/2/1 with a SK] we're at, is it worth trying to lynch the SK tonight, instead of the mafia?

Hmm. Attempt #2.
If we lynch mafia tonight, and there is a SK, perfect town play cannot guarantee a town win. If we lynch a SK tonight, perfect town play can guarantee a town win. Simple. I don't think that its easy to find a SK compared to scum, but its more strategically sound.

bessie wrote:Yes, I’m mostly quotes and responses today, but I think there is a lot of content in what you are dismissing as “newlines.”
You're misinterpreting. A gap in the page,


like that contains literally no content, and that's what I meant. That, or I'm misunderstanding something.

bessie wrote:And seriously, “not really much content overall”? What’s the standard against which you are measuring?
As of making that post, you had made 21 lines of content, about the amount you made in your last post, and about the amount in Carlington's first post of the day. I'm not saying that it's not good content; it's rather in-depth, and definitely more useful than my first post of the day, I'm saying that you have a lot less then someone would think, at a glance.

bessie wrote: But how would you even conclude I am trying to dissuade everyone from thinking there is a serial killer in the game? If anything I would think I appear to be tunneling in on there being a serial killer in the game.
You made a list about alternate possibilities, and seemed much less sure of the possibility of a SK then the rest of us for a while. D1 content excluded, of course.

bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:On that vein, my second guess for a SK would be bessie, after Carlington. Her posts got at Carlington being a SK a lot, and were also rather dismissive in places. A lot of people have waved this away as her being frustrared, but I'm not sure. Besides, it's a lot easier to look townie as a SK than as mafia, due to not knowing as much, and not having anyone to protect.

I think crucialityfactor is the only one that said I was acting frustrated and digging in to Carlington. And I’m not sure what the “this” is in “waived this away” refers to. Is it my suspicions of Carlington? Who besides Carlington has waived this off as not being serious?
No, it was your lists of reads that labelled everyone as scummy, then as townie, that I was referring to.

bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:@dimochka: I kind-of doubt that there's a Godfather, but only for one reason: flavour-wise, how come only one of the scum is a Godfather, and not both of them?

Not sure what you mean. Why would two godfathers make more sense than one?
Flavour-wise, I can't think of a situation that would cause only one of the Rossum dolls to look clean, and not the other. In practice, this makes me believe that we have no godfathers, because of how unbalanced two would be.

bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:Also, if there is a SK, then its a much better idea to kill them off first, then the mafia. Killing one mafia is basically the same as reducing us to two SKs and that, even with perfect town play (assuming no vigs), leads to a definite town loss, if all of the kills hit [town] (4/2/1 -> 2/1/1 -> 1/0/1). I'm NOT saying that we shouldn't look for mafia - this is worst-case, if we do have a SK and no kills get blocked.

How is this definite town loss? You assume that the SK and the mafia will both hit town. And that they both want to hit town. OK, so we determine with magical certainty who is the serial killer and who is mafia, and we lynch the serial killer. Then mafia definitely kills town N2 (assuming we are currently at 4/2/1). D3 we are at 3/2 and mafia can vote as a block on D3. My impression is that you’re trying to distract us from mafia hunting.
Assuming perfect anti-town play. There are situations that would make the SK or mafia try to NK each other, and I admit, I didn't consider them, I simply assumed all of the kills would be town-orientated.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Diemo » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:09 am UTC

Sorry peeps, I meant to write up my thoughts about the Topher/Ivy claim, but then I got drink instead. So, yeah drinking
!!. Ill write up my response later
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Diemo » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:13 am UTC

Ok, so no counter claims. Here are my thoughts on the whole adnap/dim situation.

Firstly, dim is claiming (as far as I can see) to be Ivy, but without coming right out and saying it. He is also claiming to be a back-up for Topher. I'll get to adnap's claim later.

This, on the face of it, seems fair enough.

Then, however, we have adnaps claim, where she claims two things, firstly, that she is a one-shot cop, and secondly, that she is Topher. If adnap is telling the truth, then I think that dim's claim of being her backup is a pile of steaming bullshit, because why the hell would a one-shot cop have a backup? This means that one of them is lying.

Ok, so lets analyse their actual content. I'll start with dim. His content is low - probably because of RL reasons (so I run under an honour code where I only claim RL reasons if they are true and try not to take it into account when judging people as scum or not).
The first thing that dim says is that he suspects a godfather - starting off the game by saying that cop results should not be trusted. This is not inherently scummy, with Dollhouse flavour there well could be a godfather, so overall Null. He next goes on to say that he thinks that Carlington is an indie. gives reads of everyone, which is townie, yay more content, but doesn't put down a vote at all on D1, which is not.
On D2, seems really confident that Alpha is a serial killer, specifically
It does sound like the cuts come from Alpha so it is likely that we have an SK

claims later on that this is for flavour reasons, after I call it out the first time, but it really seems to me that this is extra information - namely that he knows that Alpha is not in the mafia because he is.

Votes me for getting a name wrong. I can kinda see this, but come-on.

Overall, I am finding him quite scummy, I am not believing his claim in the least, and I think that we should probably lynch him today.

Unvote
Vote: dimochka/Madge


Ok, now let us look at adnapemit.

Firstly, how much mafia experience do you have? Their first player analysis is just stating stuff that happened - this is scummy (active lurking), but also a mistake that I made a lot when I was starting out. Votes freeze blade, null tell (I am going to claim that, right? :twisted: ). Also seemed sure that Alpha was not mafia, but retracts that and claims it was for flavour reasons (same as dim).

Ok, to be honest, when I posted asking for counter claims I thought that this was a brilliant, ballsy play by the mafia. One claims Topher, the other claims Ivy, they convince everyone they are town, woop woop win. Of course, if it doesn't work then they are dead. I'm a bit less sure of this now, adnap is feeling better to me, but that is probably the warm fuzzy feelings I get from her saying I am town.

BTW, if we have a SK I think it is Carlington. He is trying to take attention away from there being a SK in the game. But I think that we should lynch him tomorrow, in the hopes that he kills mafia for us (or that mafia kill him, but given this sentence I think that it is pretty unlikely for that to happen).
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:12 am UTC

emlightened wrote:
bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:On that vein, my second guess for a SK would be bessie, after Carlington. Her posts got at Carlington being a SK a lot, and were also rather dismissive in places. A lot of people have waved this away as her being frustrared, but I'm not sure. Besides, it's a lot easier to look townie as a SK than as mafia, due to not knowing as much, and not having anyone to protect.

I think crucialityfactor is the only one that said I was acting frustrated and digging in to Carlington. And I’m not sure what the “this” is in “waived this away” refers to. Is it my suspicions of Carlington? Who besides Carlington has waived this off as not being serious?
No, it was your lists of reads that labelled everyone as scummy, then as townie, that I was referring to.

Just in response to bessie here, I want to say that I think you're misunderstanding me. The only post that I thought was not serious was the reads list in which you called everyone town. It was pretty clearly written in a sarcastic tone because you pretty clearly misinterpreted what I was saying, whether wilfully or otherwise, and thought what you thought I was saying was stupid.

*ahem*

Now, if what Diemo says is true, one or both of adnapemit and diMadgeka is lying.I've never played in a game with a backup before, and had to Google the role to find out how it works, but I agree with Diemo's assessment that a backup for a one-shot cop would be nearly pointless - especially since the cop has been used. The way I see it, townies don't lie, so one or both of adnapemit and dimka is scum. I think one is more likely than both, because this would be a pretty big slip for a scumteam to make.

So what's left is to confirm the claim properly. Madge, when you arrive, would you kindly claim your role name?
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby bessie » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:05 am UTC

A few more responses to catch up.
crucialityfactor wrote:This is all speculative of course because Dimo did not specifically claim who he was or who he was a backup of.
But he did claim it was someone mentioned in the flavor. So Madge, you need to choose one of these: Adelle Dewitt, Laurence Dominic, Topher, Ivy.

emlightened wrote:I don't think, beyond increasing the likelihood that someone is Topher, that dimo's claim supports yours. You could quite easily fake a claim, and a one-shot cop is one of the easiest and least risky to claim.

“My power is a one shot cop” is indeed a very safe claim. In a remarkably similar previous comment, Diemo also pointed out that this claim is suspicious.
Diemo wrote:snap's post is pretty suspicious as well. one-shot cop is an easy claim for scum (after all, they know who scum is, unless they happen to hit the SK or an independent), and she seems really sure that Alpha is not in the mafia. I don't think it is out of the question for him to be in the mafia at all. So, FOS adnap.

But as I said before, that’s not what she claimed. She claimed she had a one shot cop. FOS anyone who doesn’t get my point.

emlightened wrote:
bessie wrote:Yes, I’m mostly quotes and responses today, but I think there is a lot of content in what you are dismissing as “newlines.”
You're misinterpreting. A gap in the page,


like that contains literally no content, and that's what I meant. That, or I'm misunderstanding something.
The misunderstanding is indeed mine. I thought you meant how many new lines of content I had.

emlightened wrote:
bessie wrote: But how would you even conclude I am trying to dissuade everyone from thinking there is a serial killer in the game? If anything I would think I appear to be tunneling in on there being a serial killer in the game.
You made a list about alternate possibilities, and seemed much less sure of the possibility of a SK then the rest of us for a while. D1 content excluded, of course.

Are you referring to this list?
bessie wrote:One final comment on the number of kills last night. I'm still debating whether or not a serial killer would be too many kills for this game. Here's an unordered list I made of possible reasons why there was only one kill last night (not ranked by likelihood).
1. Someone withheld their kill.
2. The kill was mafia, and there is no serial killer.
3. The mafia and SK chose the same target.
4. The mafia was blocked/jailed.
5. The victim was doctored/jailed/other protection.
6. The victim is bulletproof.
7. The mafia targeted the traitor, and they were recruited instead of killed.

Implies possible serial killer: #1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
Implies no serial killer: #2.

bessie wrote: And emlightened makes another post trying to associate me in people’s minds with the serial killer.


I would consider this active lurking:
Diemo wrote:Sorry peeps, I meant to write up my thoughts about the Topher/Ivy claim, but then I got drink instead. So, yeah drinking
!!. Ill write up my response later
however, IIRC, this post is consistent with Diemo's meta.

Diemo wrote:Then, however, we have adnaps claim, where she claims two things, firstly, that she is a one-shot cop, and secondly, that she is Topher. If adnap is telling the truth, then I think that dim's claim of being her backup is a pile of steaming bullshit, because why the hell would a one-shot cop have a backup? This means that one of them is lying.

I already covered my thoughts on adnapemit’s claim. But I think you have a point about dimochka. His role specific backup claim is very fishy. Having no power gives him an excellent excuse not to share any night results. His (currently) worthless power will be a great explanation tomorrow as to why he was not targeted with the night kill. And the claim of Ivy seems pretty safe because this seems to me to be a very minor character and possibly not in the game.

Back to this remark by emlightened:
emlightened wrote:No, it was your lists of reads that labelled everyone as scummy, then as townie, that I was referring to.

I think I want to revisit this, because a lot has been said about my Everyone Is Scum post. Here are a few of those comments (summarized, not quoted):

Diemo got a ping, thought I was setting up an excuse to explain any later vote.
jimbobmacdoodle raised his eyebrows.
crucialityfactor thought I was looking for a target, paranoid, or trying to distance myself from a partner.
Carlington thought I was unhelpful.
adnapemit realized I was trying to provoke a response.
After my second list, Diemo suspected it was a joke.
dimochka was worried that I was finding a reason to attack everyone and doesn’t want others to follow suit (I would like to highlight this one because I find it odd).
jimbobmacdoodle finally found some valid points in my list.
crucialityfactor decides that I’m just frustrated and it’s making my content unreliable.
emlightened claims that a lot of people waived this away (my list) as being frustrated.

Which bring us to page four. I suggest that everyone take another close look at that list, my third post in the game, near the top of page two. Here’s a summary of the contents of that post, uninfluenced by later content.

adnapemit – Following the pack. Watching you.
Carlington – Diversionary tactic. Serial killer.
crucialityfactor – Lurking. Watching you.
Diemo - I like you, but I’ve got to stay with the theme.
dimochka – Don’t trust the cop. Mafia.
emlightened – Role fishing. Mafia.
Freezeblade – Active lurking. Watching you.
jimbobmacdoodle – Very active lurking. Suspicious.
mpolo – Hey I’m townie. Suspicious.

As I work on my third player analysis list, I am going to be thinking about that first list, and how everyone reacted to it.

I’m also going to be thinking about something else. Something that was brought up only once, in the first D2 post: why jimbobmacdoodle?


Personal note to Carlington (non game content):
Spoiler:
Carlington wrote:Just in response to bessie here, I want to say that I think you're misunderstanding me. The only post that I thought was not serious was the reads list in which you called everyone town. It was pretty clearly written in a sarcastic tone because you pretty clearly misinterpreted what I was saying, whether wilfully or otherwise, and thought what you thought I was saying was stupid.

*ahem*

I hope that you don’t take any remarks I make as part of this game personally. I would never call you stupid (or even think it) and if I inferred it, it was an unintentional blunder on my part. This has happened to me before, in this subforum, so I know the fault lies somewhere within my own personality.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:59 am UTC

@bessie (same):
Spoiler:
No, you're fine. You just had the poor fortune to end up as the focus for my venting after a very frustrating day. I'm sorry for acting the way I did, I know you don't think I'm stupid, and you needn't worry; you haven't upset me or hurt my feelings. I appreciate that you apologised as well, even if I wasn't offended, so thank you for that.

I mostly just wanted to get that out there. As for actual game content:
Since bessie's post just now included a list of all players mentioned in flavour, I currently know enough to know that dimochka must be claiming Ivy and thus must either be a backup for Topher, or else lying, or else adnapemit is lying. Of the existing roles mentioned in flavour, Adelle makes no sense as a backup. Nobody has counterclaimed Topher which is enough for me to
Vote: Madge/dimochka
Madge, I really am sorry that you so often seem to replace into games where I'm attacking the person you replace. I want to express some kind of Aussie solidarity.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby adnapemit » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:40 pm UTC

I sort of doubt it but Laurence Dominic could be a replacement. I also don't see how your options lead to a conclusive evaluation that dimochka is scum as you even suggested that dimochka could be telling the truth.
You are voting before Madge even has had a chance to post.
Vote:Carlington
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Sabrar » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:41 pm UTC

Deadline is in ~3 days. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day.

Votals:
dimochka/Madge - 2 (Diemo, Carlington)
Carlington - 1 (adnapemit)
Diemo - 1 (dimochka/Madge)

7 players alive, 4 votes required to hammer.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Diemo » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:43 pm UTC

So, I don't really have a huge amount to say right at the moment. I'm still not buying that dimochka/Madge is town.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby bessie » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:00 am UTC

I know I promised that my post quality would improve but the shit hit the fan that is my life (yet again). Here’s some thoughts, not as detailed or as nicely organized as I had hoped.

adnapemit – Claims her role name is Topher Brink, and that she used a one-shot cop power. She got some heat from emlightened and Diemo, who misread this as “my power is a one shot cop.” I have her as neutral because I don’t see anything particularly scummy or townie from her, and I have others I suspect more.

Carlington – Still my strongest suspect for serial killer, however I have just a tiny doubt because jimbobmacdoodle voted for him, and it just seems too obvious Carlington would be the one to kill jimbob. One reason I suspect him is I think he is still trying to distract from threat of serial killer. But I don’t think he is the most dangerous threat today (more on this at the end of this post).

crucialityfactor – Nice long detailed analysis post, which I like. However because he did his analysis in a large block, it gives him an excuse to make mistakes or hide questionable reads. He’s been helpful in explaining the flavor, but he hasn’t had much other content. I just don’t feel there is enough content for anything but a neutral read. crucialityfactor, what do you think of the claims today?

Diemo - Made a mistake about me voting freezeblade. Picks up on Carlington’s some in groups observation. Mentioned Carlington suspicious because jimbobmacdoodle voted for him (he’s the only one besides adnapemit to mention this).
Diemo wrote:Um, working off my shitty memory, Alpha does use knives (am I getting this confused with Caprica? I could be). But one kill suggests that Alpha is the mafia, if it is Alpha's method of killing. Wiki tells me that Alpha was originally someone who used a knife, I'm going to mark it as plausible.

Not quick to dismiss the possibility that Alpha is mafia. I like this because there has been too much trying to make the game fit flavor expectations, when the mod specifically told us that the characters won’t necessarily have the same alignments as on the show. Suspicious of adnapemit for what I believe is a wrong reason (one-shot cop claim). He is currently on the top of my town list.

dimochka/Madge - Things I find suspicious:
1. Warns everyone not to trust cop results because we likely have a godfather (also note that he decided not to trust the cop claim and is voting for Diemo).
2. I don’t like what he said about my list here.
dimochka wrote:What worries me is Bessie literally finding a reason to attack everyone no matter how trivial. More so because I want to make sure that people don't follow suit (on possibly a smaller scale).
I can’t put into words what bothers me about this, but I find something about it very scummy. What exactly don’t you want people to follow me on?

3. Super fishy role claim, in his first D2 post. Later indirectly claims to be Ivy. I already said what I don’t like about this in an earlier post (good excuse not to share any night results, reason for not being a night kill target, and Ivy seems to me to be a very minor character and probably not in the game).
4. This quote:
dimochka wrote:One quick note that I thought of as I was reading through flavor. It does sound like the cuts come from Alpha so it is likely that we have an SK. I would potentially expect Alpha to be a godfather and have Paul Ballard as a safeclaim (because he took over Paul's personality at a certain point). I could very well be diving too deep into the flavor, but as I said I'd rather this be out in the open.
Shifts discussion to suspecting Alpha serial killer is likely. In the next sentence he expects Alpha to be a godfather with Paul Ballard as a safe claim (is SK/godfather a real thing?). So now an indirect warning against trusting name cop results.

5. Another flavor based reason for Alpha to be serial killer.
dimochka wrote:2. Again based on flavor, Alpha would have no reason to work with anyone else. He works with no one. I actually considered the possibility of him being in the mafia and promptly discarded it. Because if he's mafia then he's a lone wolf, which is basically an SK.
I think dimochka is leaning too heavily on flavor.

emlightened – Suspected she was mafia on D1 for role fishing. Suspect it today for these reasons:
1. Distraction, commenting on the some in groups thing.
2. Leaning heavily on flavor in her analysis (there has to be two godfathers or none because one godfather doesn’t fit with flavor, I don’t even get this reasoning).
3. Distracting from threat of mafia and insisting we focus on the serial killer. Multiple examples already given in my previous posts.
emlightened wrote:
bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:Considering the potential [4/2/1 with a SK] we're at, is it worth trying to lynch the SK tonight, instead of the mafia?

Hmm. Attempt #2.
If we lynch mafia tonight, and there is a SK, perfect town play cannot guarantee a town win. If we lynch a SK tonight, perfect town play can guarantee a town win. Simple. I don't think that its easy to find a SK compared to scum, but its more strategically sound.

And you analysis only applies if all roles are vanilla. Which is probably not the case.

Vote: emlightened

Reason: because I think she is mafia.

Reason for favoring a mafia lynch over a serial killer lynch: I believe there are no vanilla roles, so mafia have powers and the NK. I think the serial killer’s power probably is his kill. We don’t know if mafia can use a power and perform the kill on the same night. So I believe the mafia are probably more dangerous than the serial killer.

I would vote for dimochka/Madge, but I want to give Madge an opportunity to post. I am willing to switch if we don’t see some good content from Madge, or if it’s close to deadline and nothing is happening.

Deadline in about a day and a half. If anyone wants to ask me anything I’ll try to answer promptly.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Madge » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:12 am UTC

argh guys I'm really sorry. I just got back from my holiday two days ago and have been a combination of busier than anticipated and jetlagged (I went from GMT+13 to GMT+8 so I've been waking up at 4am the past two days). I am not sure how many posts I will get in before the deadline.

I'm starting just by reading D2 because I'm not sure how much time I'll have right now, and I always joke about how I want to fast forward to D2 when I'm on D1, so, well, now I can actually do it.

Also I'm like 1000% flavour blind, so forgive me.

~~~~~
I have no night results.
D2: Deaths don't tell us much, but it seems clear from flavour that Victor/mpolo died a lover's death and Sierra was the kill target.

Adnapemit thinks lovers might be an insurance against mass claim; doubt it personally. You can claim your role without claiming to be a lover, so unless Victor and Sierra were like married on the show or whatever, I don't think it's going to stop mass claiming at all. Slight FoS, weird thing to post.

Carligton's long post with the random reference to a water bottle makes me feel like it's a breadcrumb, but then again, I post random asides all the time, so you know.

emlightend's first post is striking me as townie. I think examining the wagon is a great idea. I have a suspicion that town is more likely to start wagons and scum just jump on them, so I don't judge Diemo harshly for being the first to vote.

Bessie's behaviour at the end of D1 sounds interesting. I will have to go through and look at that, since I did have a quick skim while I was still on holiday and definitely remember a claim followed by an "OH CRAP" moment from everyone. (reading the rest of the day it looks less interesting)

Diemo asks for a cop to claim. This is interesting. Potentially very very scummy if numbers don't support it. I'm sure other people analysed that action from him so I won't bother trying to work it out until I've finished reading.

Since everyone seems to be speculating, In terms of number of kills, from the flavour it seems pretty clear we're dealing with one enemy faction. (Dim actually posted saying that he strongly suspects we've got two enemy factions based on flavour, so it looks like I'm at odds with my past self. Go figure.)

I noticed someone asked me/dim why they decided to reveal this role, and I have no idea exactly, I guess being under some pressure makes one want to provide some "helpful" information?

Adnapemit claims one-shot cop and town Diemo. Good info, if true.

Bessie is excellent, as always. I'd also like to know what the chair does on the show.

I'm not sure why emlightened has such a problem with Bessie's posts/style/etc. Bessie asks good questions and makes good analysis.

Anyway, here's what you all wanted to know: I'm Ivy. I'm Topher's backup. I suspect Topher is actually a jack of all trades or something, and adnapmit didn't mention it so not as to appear as a juicy target to scum. (But IMO scum should be most scared of the cop, which is over, so you know.... maybe not the best tactical decision). The fact we have a long-standing Topher claim with no CC and me being Topher's backup leaves me no choice but to accept it. Oh, and I just know I'm Topher's backup, I don't have information about what Topher's role actually IS, so my jack of all trades spec is just spec.

Diemo accusing Carlington of being SK by trying to take attention away - this I don't get. If there's an SK they're going to be revealed in the number of kills before too long. There's no point in trying to tell town there isn't one. So FoS bad logic.

People I'm pretty sure are town:
Adnapemit

People I like:
Bessie, Emlightened,

People I don't like:
Diemo

People I missed:
Crucialityfactor, Carlington

@Carlington: It's OK, I forgive you for your unfounded attacks on my great self. I spent a lovely 5 hours in Sydney airport the other day, and enjoyed some pretzels, sushi and a banh mi, so I am full of nothing but positive thoughts towards your township.

FUTURE PLANS: check out the end of D1, and see what the votes look like.

If I was voting right now, I'd vote Diemo, but I'm not because I'm scared of the votals, LYLO, etc.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby emlightened » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:50 am UTC

Because I've go stuff going on tonight, and an assignment due tomorrow, I probably won't have enough time to make a post before deadline.

I was ready to vote for adnapemit, but considering Madge's idea that she could be a jack-of-all-trades, I don't think I will vote for her.

I guess I can understand Madge being scared of LYLO, but that would imply three mafia, which seems much more dangerous than just two and a SK, so I don't think we're there yet. The flavour only says that one townie was killed, but it wouldn't have shown up (in flavour) if someone was jailed, or if the kill failed for some other reason. I'm still pretty sure there's a SK and mafia in the game.

There's a chance I won't vote today due to lack of time, but if I do, it will probably be pretty close to deadline.


@bessie: I believe my words were "I kind-of doubt that there's a Godfather, but only for one reason: flavour-wise, how come only one of the scum is a Godfather, and not both of them?" I know that you can't trick the system like that, and I never said that there wasn't a Godfather, only that I wouldn't expect it. I'm still being precautious to the existence of one; if I was sure there wasn't one, then Diemo would have definitely been further up my last town-scum list.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby crucialityfactor » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:02 pm UTC

Ok, so I feel like I have the posts I need to make an informed decision. The claims have really shooken up my opinions today and that's hard to deal with.

Because the claims are corroborated, I have to believe them for now. Madge and adnap are Ivy and Topher in my eyes. And I believe them to be pro-town. I am also believing adnap's results and that Diemo is town.

So that leaves three other players

bessie still feels very much like a townie player to me. So that leaves emlightened and carlington.

vote carlington

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:12 pm UTC

Deadline is in ~1 day and 8 hours. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
Carlington - 2 (adnapemit, crucialityfactor)
dimochka/Madge - 2 (Diemo, Carlington)
Diemo - 1 (dimochka/Madge) (holdover vote from previous player is not reset automatically)
emlightened - 1 (bessie)

7 players alive, 4 votes required to hammer. Tied votals result in No Lynch.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby adnapemit » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:18 pm UTC

A bit more on why I voted for Carlington:
So there has been the suggestion that he is a SK but a lot of dismissal of him being mafia. I actually thought that dimochka might have been lynched after Carlington's vote (with the high possibility that neither Carlington or Diemo are mafia) it was two votes away but I thought mafia might take the opportunity as there are at least two mafia players left(although there is probably not more than two). Since it didn't happen I would think either Diemo, Carlington or dimochka is mafia. This doesn't really change my opinion too much as all three have been suspicious. There has been a lot of inactivity as well so that makes it even more uncertain than I'd like. [As I was typing both crucialityfactor and emlightened posted so I'm almost certain that they can't BOTH be scum]

As for dimochka/Madge claim, I sort of believe it. I have some doubt as there has been a lot of discussion about it which would make it easier to claim something that's harder to prove.

Madge wrote: I noticed someone asked me/dim why they decided to reveal this role, and I have no idea exactly, I guess being under some pressure makes one want to provide some "helpful" information?

Well it was the closest we got to someone claiming vanilla town. Which is interesting but not particularly helpful...and as I type this I am reminded of how suspicious claiming it actually was.

Updated list:
Town
-------
adnapemit
bessie
------------Neutral
Diemo
dimochka
crucialityfactor
emlightened
Carlington
-------
Scum
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby bessie » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:13 pm UTC

OK, let see. We have this groundbreaking observation from Madge.
Madge wrote:I suspect Topher is actually a jack of all trades or something, and adnapmit didn't mention it so not as to appear as a juicy target to scum.

It’s a good thing Madge pointed that out, because nobody noticed it before.
bessie wrote:My first thought was that I didn’t believe adnapemit because I don’t believe her power is a one-shot cop, but as I was writing this I realized that’s not what she claimed.

bessie wrote:
emlightened wrote:I don't think, beyond increasing the likelihood that someone is Topher, that dimo's claim supports yours. You could quite easily fake a claim, and a one-shot cop is one of the easiest and least risky to claim.

“My power is a one shot cop” is indeed a very safe claim. In a remarkably similar previous comment, Diemo also pointed out that this claim is suspicious.
Diemo wrote:snap's post is pretty suspicious as well. one-shot cop is an easy claim for scum (after all, they know who scum is, unless they happen to hit the SK or an independent), and she seems really sure that Alpha is not in the mafia. I don't think it is out of the question for him to be in the mafia at all. So, FOS adnap.

But as I said before, that’s not what she claimed. She claimed she had a one shot cop. FOS anyone who doesn’t get my point.

bessie wrote:adnapemit – Claims her role name is Topher Brink, and that she used a one-shot cop power. She got some heat from emlightened and Diemo, who misread this as “my power is a one shot cop.”

But perhaps I was being a bit too subtle in my observations. So Madge points it out and emlightened responds with this:
emlightened wrote:I was ready to vote for adnapemit, but considering Madge's idea that she could be a jack-of-all-trades, I don't think I will vote for her.

No, I’m not buying it. I find it very hard to believe emlightened missed my previous references, including one where I quoted her to make the point. The same one where I FOSed everyone who didn't get my point.

Madge wrote:Bessie's behaviour at the end of D1 sounds interesting. I will have to go through and look at that, since I did have a quick skim while I was still on holiday and definitely remember a claim followed by an "OH CRAP" moment from everyone. (reading the rest of the day it looks less interesting)

I didn’t make a claim. I was trying to get things started so I made a post where I FoSed/IGMEOYed everyone in the game. But I think what you are referring to as the OH CRAP post is this one.

Madge wrote:Carligton's long post with the random reference to a water bottle makes me feel like it's a breadcrumb, but then again, I post random asides all the time, so you know.

All I got from that was that he didn’t know where his towel was. Maybe he’s Arthur Dent.

All right, the votes are tied so it looks like we’re at No Lynch. And emlightened is the only one not voting. It will be interesting to see if she comes back and votes for Carlington to save Madge.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Diemo » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 pm UTC

Welcome to the game Madge.

[aside on active lurking]
Spoiler:
bessie wrote:I would consider this active lurking:
me being drink drinky


Sure if that was all I wrote. I only consider someone active lurking if they go a few game posts without posting content. Or if they only have a single comment.


bessie wrote:Carlington – Still my strongest suspect for serial killer, however I have just a tiny doubt because jimbobmacdoodle voted for him


I think this is evidence in favour of Carlington being a SK, actually. But given that we might not even have a SK I am not so ready to vote for him. See what happens tonight.

Madge wrote:Diemo asks for a cop to claim.


Wait, what? Was I drunk? I don't remember this at all! FWIW, I don't think that the cop should claim unless they have a scum result (or they are 1-shot like adnap I guess?).

I don't think that even if we take Topher as a jack of all trades that it changes too much, having a backup of a jack of all trades is pretty, well, useless. You said that you were Topher's backup, but that you didn't have any information on Topher's role (specifically, Topher's alignment?) Just in case you are telling the truth.

Madge wrote:Diemo accusing Carlington of being SK by trying to take attention away - this I don't get. If there's an SK they're going to be revealed in the number of kills before too long. There's no point in trying to tell town there isn't one. So FoS bad logic.


What? Everyday that the SK can convince town that there is no SK is good for the SK. As people won't be trying to find him. Sure it will come out eventually, but that doesn't mean that the SK shouldn't try to convince town that they don't exist. Especially if they can withhold their kill.

Madge wrote:If I was voting right now, I'd vote Diemo, but I'm not

OR ARE YOU? :D At least you are voting for the person you think is scummiest.

And yeah, I got that adnap might have more powers than a 1-shot cop. But trying to convince scum she doesn't seemed like a worthy (albeit useless now) cause.

Ok, so if the votes are still tied at deadline (tomorrow at 8pm GMT - that gives me about an hour after work to look over the thread) I'll invite and vote Carlington, because I do think that he is likely the SK if we have one. But at the moment I would prefer to lynch diMadgeka.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:20 pm UTC

I didn't want to but I also don't want to be lynched.

I am Laurence Dominic, who is a Survivor and has a roleblock. I blocked bessie N1. If there's also an SK, town is pretty much already boned. I don't think there is, though, because that would have made the setup 5/1/1/2 which seems out of balance. Lynching me today hurts town - less than a mislynch of a townie would, but it still leaves you at LYLO tomorrow and requires perfect town play to win. Since I win with other factions, it makes more sense to hunt scum, and knowing that I'm indie shrinks the pool of potential scum. Similarly, I'm not too worried about this claim resulting in an NK, as it makes more sense for scum to kill a townie - killing me is basically giving town an extra day to scumhunt.

I hadn't considered that adnapemit could be a Jack of all trades, that makes me a little less sure that Madge is scum, but I won't unvote right now for reasons that should be pretty clear if you look at the votals.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Madge » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:26 pm UTC

Unvote

Quick phone post. I just realised that I can't suspect Diemo and trust anadanpwit in the same breath since the latter has a town cop result on the former. Callingtons claim rubs me the wrong way for some reason. I will have a better look in a few hours.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby bessie » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:01 am UTC

Some quick thoughts.

crucialityfactor wrote:Because the claims are corroborated, I have to believe them for now. Madge and adnap are Ivy and Topher in my eyes. And I believe them to be pro-town. I am also believing adnap's results and that Diemo is town.

crucialityfactor, can you explain your reasons for believing Madge and adnapemit are pro town?

Carlington wrote:I am Laurence Dominic, who is a Survivor and has a roleblock. I blocked bessie N1. If there's also an SK, town is pretty much already boned. I don't think there is, though, because that would have made the setup 5/1/1/2 which seems out of balance. Lynching me today hurts town - less than a mislynch of a townie would, but it still leaves you at LYLO tomorrow and requires perfect town play to win. Since I win with other factions, it makes more sense to hunt scum, and knowing that I'm indie shrinks the pool of potential scum. Similarly, I'm not too worried about this claim resulting in an NK, as it makes more sense for scum to kill a townie - killing me is basically giving town an extra day to scumhunt.

I don't think I believe this. I haven’t played with a survivor/roleblocker before, but I have limited mafia experience so that doesn’t mean anything. To be honest, your claim makes me suspect you’re actually a mafia roleblocker. I'm more suspicious because you’ve set up a nice reason for not being night killed.

Carlington wrote:I hadn't considered that adnapemit could be a Jack of all trades, that makes me a little less sure that Madge is scum, but I won't unvote right now for reasons that should be pretty clear if you look at the votals.

How would knowing adnapemit’s role make you less sure Madge is scum? Oh, and FOS for not considering adnapemit could be Jack of all trades (see my previous post).

The votals are still tied/No Lynch. I guess that means Madge and emlightened can pick the lynch target.

I will be at work at deadline, and my last opportunity to post will be at about 8:00 am PST, deadline -4 hours. If anyone wants me to respond to anything, I will be around for a few hours tonight.

@Diemo
Spoiler:
Diemo wrote:[aside on active lurking]
bessie wrote:I would consider this active lurking:
me being drink drinky


Sure if that was all I wrote. I only consider someone active lurking if they go a few game posts without posting content. Or if they only have a single comment.

Sorry Diemo that was supposed to be a joke but I forgot to attach a smiley face. You made a post in Chaos Mafia about being hungover and some people accused you for active lurking for it.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:58 am UTC

bessie, if you see this, it may be possible that you can confirm my roleblocking you last night. I hadn't considered Jack of All Trades because it's a role I've never seen before. I had to look it up. It makes a difference to my suspicion because backup for a one-shot cop is not very believeable. Backup for a Jack of All Trades is much more believeable. Unvoting now, though, is the exact opposite of my wincon, so I won't do it. FMPOV, no lynch isn't awesome, because it draws the game out, but it's better than me-lynch.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby bessie » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:23 am UTC

OK. I’m pretty sure Madge will vote. Let’s see if we can get emlightened to vote too.

Unvote

Vote: Madge





Current standings:

Town
bessie
Diemo
adnapemit
crucialityfactor
Carlington
Madge
emlightened
Scum

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Madge » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:15 am UTC

vote: carlington

Yeah. My suspicion on Diemo is not enough for me to conclude he's likely godfather and thus I should vote for him despite the cop result, and a roleblocking survivor is a weird role, scum roleblocker makes more sense.
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Carlington
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:49 am UTC

I'm flavourblind, so I have no idea if this makes sense, but the flavour justification for the roleblocking is that as the head of security for the LA Dollhouse, I can lock people up overnight for pretty much any reason without scrutiny. However, I'm also an FBI mole, trying to suppress the Dollhouse technology. I've started to doubt both the FBI and Rossum though, and really only care about getting out of this mess alive - hence Survivor. If anyone has any questions for me I'll answer them as best as I can.

Madge, can you justify your vote on me please? I mean, aside from "he's voting me and also the only other train so I need to save myself". Because as yet you haven't given any reason except that you don't suspect Diemo enough to vote.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Madge » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:52 am UTC

Self preservation and I don't trust your claim, basically.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:37 am UTC

Look, I mean, I can't fault that. :P

The difference if we lynch me or not is that one extra vote is required to control the vote as long as I live, which means one extra town needs to die for scum to win. My continued presence aids town, and lynching me puts you at LYLO tomorrow. Lynching me is thus anti-town.

However, for scum, NKing me is only a priority really if town lynches successfully today. If I survive tonight and town mislynches today, then I will vote with scum to end the game. Even then, NKing town makes more sense tonight. (It leaves us tomorrow at 3/1/1 rather than 4/1).

I have no reason to falseclaim what I did - survivor/roleblocker is a weird role, as noted it looks awfully scummy, and would be a terrible falseclaim for scum. For an SK, too. Just claiming vanilla survivor would be far, far better, and would not run the risk of a counterclaim from town.
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Sabrar
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:47 am UTC

Deadline is in ~12 hours. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
Carlington - 3 (adnapemit, crucialityfactor, dimochka/Madge)
dimochka/Madge - 3 (Diemo, Carlington, bessie)

7 players alive, 4 votes required to hammer. Tied votals result in No Lynch.

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emlightened
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby emlightened » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:52 am UTC

So, everyone's voting for Madge and Carlington, and as soon as I vote on one of them the hammer goes down.

Carlington's claim looks fine, if it didn't put the player ratios at 5/1/1/2. His post actually seems fine with people voting for him in favour of a town win, presumably because its in most players best interests. I think I'm inclined to believe him, but he still might be a SK or mafia.

I didn't like how long diMadgeka took to claim that they were Ivy, so it feels off. Whilst I can believe that a Jack-of-all-trades has a backup, the claim seemed open for interpretation for too long, but I guess that that's probably because of being replaced.

Because if he's a Survivor its not as harmful to town as a mislynch, and he might still be a SK, I'll

Vote: Carlington


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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Carlington » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:53 am UTC

EBWOP: No lynch also loses town the game. Scum kills town tonight, we enter tomorrow at 3/1/2 and I vote with scum to force a no lynch, then the next day it's 2/1/2 and I vote with scum to hammer and win.

Ninja'd by the hammer. Enjoy LYLO.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:55 am UTC

That is indeed the hammer. Please don't post anymore until start of Day 3 is announced.
You have a small window to submit or change your night actions as I'm at work and flavor-writing will be delayed a bit.
Window is closed, please don't send me any further actions.

Final votals:
Carlington - 4 (adnapemit, crucialityfactor, dimochka/Madge, emlightened)
dimochka/Madge - 3 (Diemo, Carlington, bessie)

Carlington has been lynched.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 2 - Sadness

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:04 am UTC

'It must be Ivy! She's only a minor role so I'm certain she's not in the setup.'

'Dude, don't break the fourth wall. Besides, she's standing right next to you. No, I'm telling you it has to be Dominic. Look, he's even admitted being a mole for the FBI.'

'Well, if you put it that way.'

Opinions still split almost 50-50 but the advantages of democracy prevailed once again and a single vote was enough to condemn Mr Dominic to eternal rest. The inhabitants of the Dollhouse went to sleep nervously, hoping that this time they got it right and the night would prove be safe once more.

Alas, such was not the case. In the morning the body of Topher was found, mutilated in a very familiar way with a multitude of sharp cuts. Furthermore Paul Ballard didn't appear for breakfast and when a search-party went looking for him he was found wandering around mindlessly not knowing who or were he was. This was clearly the result of a mind-wipe as was evidenced by the still humming Chair. Unfortunately no back-up of his brain had been ever created so there was no way to restore his personality.

Searching through all their belongings didn't produce anything even remotely suspicious, so it was clear that all of the evildoers were still alive. It seemed that all hope was lost for our heroes...


Carlington is dead. He was Laurence Dominic, Independent, Survivor, Roleblocker
crucialityfactor is dead. He was Paul Ballard, Town, Cop.
adnapemit is dead. She was Topher Brink, Town, Jack of all Trades (Cop, Doctor, Tracker, all 1-shot)

It is now Day 3. Deadline is set at next Monday 8pm UTC.

4 players alive, 3 votes required to hammer.
Last edited by Sabrar on Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:25 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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emlightened
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 3 - Chaos

Postby emlightened » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:49 am UTC

Well. Shit.

Unless we started out with two SKs, we're at 1/2/1.

If both mafia reveal themselves now, and vote together, then the townie and SK can vote together to force a NL, and the SK kills one of the mafia, whilst one of the mafia either kills the SK, for a mafia win, or the townie, for a SK win.

If a townie or SK is lynched tonight, the mafia win.

It is impossible for the townie to win, and the SK can only win if the mafia pick wrong for the nightkill, and the lynch hits a mafia member.


If we started with two SKs, then it just depends on whether the SKs nightkill each other, so town should try to lynch town in that case in order to win. (so that the SKs are more li9kely to hit each other) I think that this is rather unlikely.

I'll wait to see if other people have strategies before voting.
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 3 - Chaos

Postby emlightened » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:06 am UTC

EBWOP:

If all players die, which faction wins?

(I assumed the SK in my above post, but might be wrong.)
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 3 - Chaos

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:09 am UTC

emlightened wrote:If all players die, which faction wins?

Neither. It becomes a complete draw.

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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 3 - Chaos

Postby emlightened » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:59 pm UTC

Note: I'm assuming that we have two mafia and one SK in this post. The alternative of two SKs is simpler, in that its town's objective to lynch the other townie to increase the chance of the two SKs hitting each other, unless one of them has a useful night power. As I highly doubt that we have two SKs and no mafia, though, I'm going to ignore that idea. The other possibility is that we only have mafia, and the chair kill was a vig kill, but this seems equally unlikely.


Okay, flavour's actually pretty interesting, if not useful. Its almost definite that the cuts were done by the SK on the first night, and that the mafia tried to kill someone with the chair, but were somehow prevented (roleblock, probably, but from the flavour they also might both have targeted the same player). Mafia succeeded this time by killing cruciality, whilst the SK killed adnapemit.


If we're at 1/2/1, and nobody has any vig or doc/roleblock powers, then we either lynch town or the SK today, and mafia nightkill the other of them, possibly with the mafia being nightkilled by the SK, leaving just a single mafia member alive. Alternately, we have a No Lynch, and we're at 0/1/1, 1/1/0, 0/2/0 or 0/2/1 at the start of D4; the mafia win in all cases except the first (mafia hit town, SK hits mafia), which is a draw.

I don't really care to go through all the other possibilities. If I'm a one-shot vig and team up with the SK, and agree to kill the other two people and No Lynch, then either town or the SK win, which I guess is the only way any faction but the mafia win.


I guess this is where I roleclaim. I'm Mellie, town. When Paul dies, I go on a screaming fit of rage and become a one-shot vig for the following night. The only possible way for the SK to win is by siding with me, and hoping that I get killed by the mafia whilst we both kill off the two remaining mafia members.


By the way, unless anyone supports the 2 SKs theory, no choice for a lynch situation is beneficial to both the mafia and any other player, and there's no possible way that anybody would choose to lynch.

Vote: No Lynch because its blatant that that's what's going to end up happening anyway.


Footnote: if the townie did have a roleblock/doc power, then stopping the nightkill obviously isn't beneficial, as it would just let the SK have a slightly higher chance of winning, and decrease the chance of a draw. If anybody else does, then its useless (the SK might have use for it if they could also kill, but I don't think that they can do both).
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Re: Dollhouse Mafia - Day 3 - Chaos

Postby emlightened » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:20 pm UTC

EBWOP (again):

As far as I know, the only thing to do today is for the SK to decide which player to kill if they believe me and claim SK (so that the kills don't collide, which is a potential mafia win), and for people to claim their fake roles.
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