PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
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- jimbobmacdoodle
- Posts: 149
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- Location: NP 811/The Present
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]
Right, nothing else seems to be happening, deadline is fast approaching and I doubt that this is going to cause us to lose:
Vote Esthr
I'd like to hear what Esthr has to say about what she realised, in case I'm wrong and she isn't scum. It could be helpful come tomorrow.
Vote Esthr
I'd like to hear what Esthr has to say about what she realised, in case I'm wrong and she isn't scum. It could be helpful come tomorrow.
BlitzGirl the Primordial

matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.
- SirGabriel
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:54 pm UTC
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]
I don't like putting Esthr at L-1 before she has a chance to post, but this might be my last post before deadline.
Vote: Esthr
Vote: Esthr
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]
Don't worry. I was waiting for this.SirGabriel wrote:I don't like putting Esthr at L-1 before she has a chance to post, but this might be my last post before deadline.
I am a traitor and I have a message for the last mafia member (whoever you are). If you night kill either adnapemit or SirGabriel on N3, then we (mafia) will win on D4.
SirGabriel, if you are the mafia member, you should have given adnapemit a poisoned berry juice, so target her.
Anyone else should target SirGabriel.
Vote: Esthr
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]
That's hammer. No one post.
I'll process when I can. In the mean time think about your night actions and send them in if you like.
I'll process when I can. In the mean time think about your night actions and send them in if you like.
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?
Avatar by Matt
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
I haven't gotten all night actions in, but nothing can stop Carlington, the final Mafia's death. Along with Esthr's (the Mafia traitor - mafia member who didn't know their team and whose team didn't know they existed) lynch, this ends the game in a Town win!
My summary of how this game went:
Day 1:
Mafia Sabrar opens up private chat with their Traitor partner Esthr. Neither know the other to be scum so they both posture and pretend to be town at each other by PM.
Town emlightened trusts Mafia Carlington to be town so much that they choose Carlington as their bodyguard target to protect them from all harm.
Lynch is lead on Sabrar. Mafia Sabrar defends themselves by truthfully claiming to have private chat with another Mafia member (which must therefore be proof that they are both town). This does not work.
Night 1:
Traitor Esthr trusts Mafia Carlington to be town so much that they set up a delayed kill on Carlington N3
Everyone targets jimbob and they get 3 abilities
Carlington takes down a townie, namely emlightened who is currently bodyguarding Carlington
Day 2:
Esthr narrowly escapes the lynch somehow
jimbob is lynch proof and generally trusted by all
Night 2:
Carlington takes down another townie / can't be jimbob since they're protected by Berry juice
Day 3:
Esthr is finally caught in their lie, and leaves a message to their living team member. (who Esthr predicts in Gojoe thread to be jimbob, whom I thought was obvious town to everyone)
Mafia Carlington doesn't really believe Esthr and calls this message wine
Night 3:
Carlington is finally killed by the Night 1 kill set up by Esthr, which was specifically specified in the role PM to be allowed to occur from beyond the grave
So there you have it. Mafia had 3 members and randomly got access to 2 kills (I wrote roles without knowing which alignment or player they would go to), but because the second kill was limited and controlled by the Traitor, the town still overcame.
I was really proud of all the unique roles I wrote for people to choose from. Let me know what you thought about them and the game in general.
I also really liked including a Traitor. Let me know what you think about that role/alignment and whether you hope to see it in future games.
Role PM(s) with all choices (chosen role is in bold):
Action Log:
My summary of how this game went:
Day 1:
Mafia Sabrar opens up private chat with their Traitor partner Esthr. Neither know the other to be scum so they both posture and pretend to be town at each other by PM.
Town emlightened trusts Mafia Carlington to be town so much that they choose Carlington as their bodyguard target to protect them from all harm.
Lynch is lead on Sabrar. Mafia Sabrar defends themselves by truthfully claiming to have private chat with another Mafia member (which must therefore be proof that they are both town). This does not work.
Night 1:
Traitor Esthr trusts Mafia Carlington to be town so much that they set up a delayed kill on Carlington N3
Everyone targets jimbob and they get 3 abilities
Carlington takes down a townie, namely emlightened who is currently bodyguarding Carlington
Day 2:
Esthr narrowly escapes the lynch somehow
jimbob is lynch proof and generally trusted by all
Night 2:
Carlington takes down another townie / can't be jimbob since they're protected by Berry juice
Day 3:
Esthr is finally caught in their lie, and leaves a message to their living team member. (who Esthr predicts in Gojoe thread to be jimbob, whom I thought was obvious town to everyone)
Mafia Carlington doesn't really believe Esthr and calls this message wine
Night 3:
Carlington is finally killed by the Night 1 kill set up by Esthr, which was specifically specified in the role PM to be allowed to occur from beyond the grave
So there you have it. Mafia had 3 members and randomly got access to 2 kills (I wrote roles without knowing which alignment or player they would go to), but because the second kill was limited and controlled by the Traitor, the town still overcame.
I was really proud of all the unique roles I wrote for people to choose from. Let me know what you thought about them and the game in general.
I also really liked including a Traitor. Let me know what you think about that role/alignment and whether you hope to see it in future games.
Role PM(s) with all choices (chosen role is in bold):
Spoiler:
Action Log:
Spoiler:
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?
Avatar by Matt
- Carlington
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:46 am UTC
- Location: Sydney, Australia.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Does this mean that had emlightened been alive, we'd have won? That's frustrating. Well, this was an excellent game imo, well done Snark and good game everyone. Time to read some spoilers.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.
Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.
Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.
Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
If you had killed someone else N1 and emlightened had never changed their Bodyguard target (unlikely) and everything else was the same, then N3 would have resulted in emlightened dead in your place. And then you'd have had to take out of the other two town. It's a lot of if's and chains of events would have altered a lot of what ended up happening, but it would have made it better for you.Carlington wrote:Does this mean that had emlightened been alive, we'd have won? That's frustrating. Well, this was an excellent game imo, well done Snark and good game everyone. Time to read some spoilers.
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?
Avatar by Matt
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Good game and congrats to Town!
Although this version of a Traitor is the most bastard-y there is, it was almost worth it just for the fun I had when I learnt about the truth. I specifically asked Carlington not to attack Esthr too much as it would have been better for us to have her alive and he would have backed off D2 but by then it was too late.
@Esthr: why did you defend me so hard D1? Did you realize at some point that I was scum?
In my old meta-environment dimochka would have been an instant lynch for that claim, so it was extremely frustrating that I was killed for attacking the scummiest player. Early PGO claim only makes sense if you suspect that Town has multiple Day-abilities, otherwise it's always better to wait.
@Snark: Traitor is fun, but precisely for the same thing that happened in this game some sort of additional information needs to be provided. According to this wiki
a) scum should know that a Traitor exists (as it makes them play somewhat differently if they know that 1 less mislynch is required) and
b) Traitor should know the identity of the Mafia (so as not to hinder them by mistake).
Of course I'm a bit biased here.
Although this version of a Traitor is the most bastard-y there is, it was almost worth it just for the fun I had when I learnt about the truth. I specifically asked Carlington not to attack Esthr too much as it would have been better for us to have her alive and he would have backed off D2 but by then it was too late.
@Esthr: why did you defend me so hard D1? Did you realize at some point that I was scum?
In my old meta-environment dimochka would have been an instant lynch for that claim, so it was extremely frustrating that I was killed for attacking the scummiest player. Early PGO claim only makes sense if you suspect that Town has multiple Day-abilities, otherwise it's always better to wait.
@Snark: Traitor is fun, but precisely for the same thing that happened in this game some sort of additional information needs to be provided. According to this wiki
a) scum should know that a Traitor exists (as it makes them play somewhat differently if they know that 1 less mislynch is required) and
b) Traitor should know the identity of the Mafia (so as not to hinder them by mistake).
Of course I'm a bit biased here.
- dimochka
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
- Location: Formerly NYC, now LA. He/Him/His please.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Sabrar wrote:Early PGO claim only makes sense if you suspect that Town has multiple Day-abilities, otherwise it's always better to wait.
I need to look at other games to confirm this, but I honestly believed that PGOs should for the most part claim immediately to make sure they dont get hit by town. In a PyP game, I expected a lot of town powers and figured I'd want to know if there was a PGO. Obviously I lied about my role, but I would've played the exact same way had I actually been a PGO in this instance.
I will consider potentially not claiming PGO off the bat in the future, BUT I would totally immediately vote anyone who didnt claim PGO early on and only did it later because in my eyes that scum trying to save themselves.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
dimochka wrote: Obviously I lied about my role, but I would've played the exact same way had I actually been a PGO in this instance.
And I would have gone after you the same way had I been Town.

Strategy of playing a PGO (by yours truly)
Spoiler:
- jimbobmacdoodle
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
- Location: NP 811/The Present
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Good game. Thanks Snark for running. I liked your post-game summary as well, so will make a note of that when I'm running Wheel of Time. I also liked the variety in Pokemon abilities, so good job there, although I do wonder if my ability was a little bit strong and mpolo's Charizard might have been horrendous in the hands of scum.
Esthr's claim last night confused me at first, but after expressing that confusion in Gojoe I remembered someone (Esthr?) saying D1 that scum might reveal their actual role, and figured she'd chosen Delphox. I also guessed that she'd chosen me and that I was about to die, as she didn't mention me in her final post. I was then madly running through in my head what if anything I could have done tonight to help town tomorrow.
Does anybody else find it funny that the traitor actually helped rather than hindered town?
Right, off to read spoilers!
Esthr's claim last night confused me at first, but after expressing that confusion in Gojoe I remembered someone (Esthr?) saying D1 that scum might reveal their actual role, and figured she'd chosen Delphox. I also guessed that she'd chosen me and that I was about to die, as she didn't mention me in her final post. I was then madly running through in my head what if anything I could have done tonight to help town tomorrow.
Does anybody else find it funny that the traitor actually helped rather than hindered town?
Right, off to read spoilers!
BlitzGirl the Primordial

matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
WOW.
Everything makes sense now that I know Esthr was a traitor. I couldn't work out how Carlington and Esthr could both be scum.
Good game everyone!
and lots of thanks Snark.
Everything makes sense now that I know Esthr was a traitor. I couldn't work out how Carlington and Esthr could both be scum.
Maybe my case for jimbob being scum was too strong? It did ignore ALL the townie things he did.Snark wrote:Esthr is finally caught in their lie, and leaves a message to their living team member. (who Esthr predicts in Gojoe thread to be jimbob, whom I thought was obvious town to everyone)
I voted you because of how you attacked not who. Although once you flipped scum I couldn't really see dimochka as scum.Sabrar wrote:so it was extremely frustrating that I was killed for attacking the scummiest player.
Good game everyone!
and lots of thanks Snark.
Empress adnapemit "Nancy" "Time Panda"
[adnapemit|timepanda]
Does anyone actually read signatures?
[adnapemit|timepanda]
Does anyone actually read signatures?
- jimbobmacdoodle
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
- Location: NP 811/The Present
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Just read Carlington's master plan in Gojoe, and I must day that it was very well thought out. I'd like to think that I'd have seen through it though on D4, had you not died. You'd have had to justify your N3 choice, and you may not have noticed but I had you as scummier than SirG in my last list - that was in part conditioned on the belief that scum couldn't kill and use an ability. With that incorrect belief, I'd have probably leaned towards you as scum above SirGabriel. But it's all a moot point.
BlitzGirl the Primordial

matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.
- Carlington
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:46 am UTC
- Location: Sydney, Australia.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
I feel like people might have already been starting to twig on D3, but the focus on Esthr was keeping attention off me. Had we seen Esthr flip Traitor on the morning of D4, I definitely think it would have changed the arguments people used.
I have to say, I don't normally enjoy playing scum, but in this game I did. The last day was torture, though - I felt sure that the longer that day dragged on, the closer and closer people would come to noticing me and the more surely I'd be sunk. My instinct was to rush and push hard to hammer before people had a chance to figure anything out, but of course that would have looked wildly scummy.
I also think that the convenience of my results and my targeting the person who died each night would have pushed credibility D4. Still, it seemed wiser to try and come up with a long term plan early and stick to it, and I'm happy with how it panned out - I don't think I could have done better and my death was set in stone from N1. Ironically enough, the only thing that could have saved us was not lynching Esthr, and that was the very thing I was pushing towards most of the game.
I have to say, I don't normally enjoy playing scum, but in this game I did. The last day was torture, though - I felt sure that the longer that day dragged on, the closer and closer people would come to noticing me and the more surely I'd be sunk. My instinct was to rush and push hard to hammer before people had a chance to figure anything out, but of course that would have looked wildly scummy.
I also think that the convenience of my results and my targeting the person who died each night would have pushed credibility D4. Still, it seemed wiser to try and come up with a long term plan early and stick to it, and I'm happy with how it panned out - I don't think I could have done better and my death was set in stone from N1. Ironically enough, the only thing that could have saved us was not lynching Esthr, and that was the very thing I was pushing towards most of the game.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.
Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.
Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.
Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Congratulations, town! I'm very happy that this worked out. I thought sure I was going to be scummy enough to survive N2 without my protection, though. Oh well.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Sabrar wrote:Although this version of a Traitor is the most bastard-y there is
...
@Snark: Traitor is fun, but precisely for the same thing that happened in this game some sort of additional information needs to be provided. According to this wiki
a) scum should know that a Traitor exists (as it makes them play somewhat differently if they know that 1 less mislynch is required) and
b) Traitor should know the identity of the Mafia (so as not to hinder them by mistake).
If my goal as a mod is to make the set-up somewhere between a straight 7-2 and 6-3 setup in terms of mafia strength, doesn't the traitor role do exactly that? Adding in your a) or b) swings it closer to 6-3 than to 7-2, but that's not something I thought was balanced, and I didn't think it was bastardry.
In whose mind is this actually bastardry at all? In this thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=88487, the only thing I can think it might be is "Misleading mod statements" to the mafia team because they assume they are the only mafia.
I respect your opinion Sabrar. I'm just curious what others think, because the role being bastard in any sense never even crossed my mind as a possibility.
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?
Avatar by Matt
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Congratulations to town, and great game, Snark. I loved the various powers in play, and the PyP format was very interesting.
The worst day for me was D2, where everyone rightfully thought I was scum but for all the wrong reasons. At least on D3, I was lynched for lying, which is perfectly valid. Unfortunately, I wasted all of D3 waiting for L-1 so I could get that post out, when I should have been defending myself and building a case against SirGabriel or even Carlington.
I had no idea. I defended you because if you were still lynched and flipped town, then I would have looked really good. Honestly, if you hadn't been lynched, you would have been in Carlington's place on N3. What I'm saying is that, yes, it would have been nice to know who my scummates were.Sabrar wrote:@Esthr: why did you defend me so hard D1? Did you realize at some point that I was scum?
The worst day for me was D2, where everyone rightfully thought I was scum but for all the wrong reasons. At least on D3, I was lynched for lying, which is perfectly valid. Unfortunately, I wasted all of D3 waiting for L-1 so I could get that post out, when I should have been defending myself and building a case against SirGabriel or even Carlington.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Ninja'd
With the potential powers everyone had, I actually agree this was more balanced. If either of us knew about each other, then Sabrar's power would have made me a normal mafia member. With a mislynch and 2 night kills, the game would have been over on D2.
Snark wrote:If my goal as a mod is to make the set-up somewhere between a straight 7-2 and 6-3 setup in terms of mafia strength, doesn't the traitor role do exactly that? Adding in your a) or b) swings it closer to 6-3 than to 7-2, but that's not something I thought was balanced, and I didn't think it was bastardry.
With the potential powers everyone had, I actually agree this was more balanced. If either of us knew about each other, then Sabrar's power would have made me a normal mafia member. With a mislynch and 2 night kills, the game would have been over on D2.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
Snark wrote:In this thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=88487,
I had a quick look at the thread and realized that my definition of bastardry is much more strict than normal (in the sense that I like to play with clear-cut rules from the beginning). For me a non-bastard game is along the lines what is described as 'Pure' in this post. Regarding the OP I would consider Category A as low-level bastardry and 'Category B' as high-level (seriously, false win-conditions as low-level?).
So my word choice was probably poor in that regard and I apologize.
I think a Traitor without any additional knowledge about the identity of scum plays much more like an Independent than a team-member. It is very unlikely that they would figure out their partners ahead of Town so they are blind in who to support. I have no idea where the resulting balance falls.
Re: PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]
I don't see a problem with the traitor role (or "Mafia supporter"). Perhaps Mafia could have been told that that person existed. I don't think it is necessary that they know the whole mafia, though. I've seen them before where if the Mafia tried to kill their supporter, they instead became a full member of the mafia.
None of those constellations seems like bastardy to me.
None of those constellations seems like bastardy to me.
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