PyPokemon 2 [Game Over: This Was a Triumph]

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 2: Kanto's Charisma]

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:19 am UTC

Edited because I didn't realize it was after hammer. Sorry! Will put in Gojoe.
Last edited by dimochka on Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:44 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Night 2: Kanto's Caution]

Postby Snark » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:38 am UTC

Votals:
dimochka - 4 - (jimbobmacdoodle, Esthr, SirGabriel, Carlington)
Esthr - 2 - (mpolo, adnapemit)

dimochka is lynched and is dead. Role reveal in the morning.

Night 2 will last until exactly 2 days from this post. If you have night actions, get them in.

dimochka should edit out their last post if they see this message. It occurred after hammer. (Edit: Thank you dimochka.)
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Snark » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:21 am UTC

dimochka is dead.
dimochka - Town
Charizard - Fire is scary, but it takes a while to heat up. During each night starting with night 3, you may PM the mod the name of another player to attack and kill with fire. Starting with night 5, the fire will heat up even more, and these kills will be unblockable.


mpolo is dead.
mpolo - Town
Blastoise - Your powerful water attack is great for defending against other Pokemon. During each night, you may PM the mod to enable your water gun defense. If enabled, any actions used on you that night will be reflected upon the original source of that action. You cannot enable your water gun defense two nights in a row.


The Pokemon of Kanto grow desperate. What do desperate Pokemon do?

Deadline in 5 "days" and since weekends count down half, that actually means exactly 6 days.

5 alive, 3 to lynch.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Esthr » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:47 am UTC

Jimbob, I targeted you last night. Please tell me you've confirmed my power.

Dimochka's power is...unexpected. Analysis tomorrow.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:23 am UTC

dimochka's PGO claim makes a lot more sense to me now, but I don't think that's how I would have played it, necessarily. Claiming PGO right out of the gate, you can see why people reacted the way they did - it's a really risky play which only makes sense if you really need to dodge the NK for a given number of nights. I do think this post was hilariously ironic in retrospect, though:
dimochka wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:How about this: reveal the Pokémon you rejected and their role abilities, unless you rejected a really powerful role in favor of an even more powerful one, in which case you lie about what the role was that you rejected.

I don't like this. It allows people to make things up and confuse us further. With that being said, I don't mind revealing my two rejections.

Also, I'm a PGO.


I have a few things to say and a vote to cast, but I'd first like to give everyone a chance to get any information out so that I have more data with which to confirm or deny my suspicions. My mind is already pretty made up, though, which I'll elaborate on after everyone's posted. It'll take something pretty damning to get me to shift. I will say that due to my choice of target and the nature of my power, last night wasn't as useful as I could have hoped, so I don't have anything to claim.

Questions:
adnapemit, I notice that nobody is immune to the lynch today. Is the reason for that the obvious one?

The NKs so far in this game have made no sense to me - is anyone getting anything from them that I'm missing?
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby adnapemit » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:20 am UTC

First I would like to start with :
Carlington wrote: However, if Esthr is telling the truth about that power, the chance of having a confirmed town with NK immunity for two nights cannot be passed up.
Have we really confirmed town? I mean he changed his vote to dimochka. Or do you know something I don't? Basically confirmed town isn't town.
And jimbob's
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I still think Esthr is our most likely scum player.
then
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:so if we mislynch him, it's not a massive loss compared to some others.

Vote dimochka

But it is. Your conclusions are strange. So two nights of immunity after the night targeted. What if Esthr was the last mafia player? what use is immunity then? Now we have a mislynch, now we might have had a mislynch if
Esthr is town, but unless everyone really thought mpolo was scum(or me I guess) then they should have questioned the votes a bit more...especially Carlington. So FOS:Carlington

This should not have been enough to change your vote:
Esthr wrote: Do not lynch me and I will target jimbob tonight. Tomorrow, he can confirm that he is invulnerable on N3 and N4.
Then this removes all suspicion from Esthr? Well if we lynched her we would know if she was telling the truth AND we know her alignment!(No I don't think we should lynch people just to know there alignment but waiting to see if someone ends up dead the next night isn't a good method either) If jimbob was killed then we wouldn't have a result either.

SirGabriel wrote: but I am willing to switch my vote to dimochka if you also switch to dimochka before I go to bed.
I am speechless at this. Really!? And then you both actually did it!!! I don't know which of you looks scummier for this. :?

So dimochka was town but dimochka still lied, it was a poor strategy but if he made it to night 3 it might have been worth it.
There is no one immune because I didn't target anyone. There was still the possibility that dimochka was mafia, I still think Esthr would have been the better vote but I can be wrong sometimes. So I didn't trust anyone who voted dimochka enough to use it on them and if I was wrong then mpolo could also be mafia.

@Carlington: Why don't they make sense? It's possible emlightened wasn't the target, and if Esthr is telling the truth SirG has immunity and wouldn't be a good target, which leaves me, you, jimbob, mpolo and Esthr.
Of these 5 at least one is mafia, and only 2 didn't follow the same vote, I wouldn't target me because I could have accidentally give mafia a no lynch so I guess they targeted mpolo. I do feel like jimbob should have been target, which does raise a few questions but I don't see anything completely odd. Judging from the roles that were rejected/ lied about we might have more than one death tonight though.

I would like reasons from everyone for their actions. Preferably good reasons.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:54 am UTC

adnapemit wrote:First I would like to start with :
Carlington wrote: However, if Esthr is telling the truth about that power, the chance of having a confirmed town with NK immunity for two nights cannot be passed up.
Have we really confirmed town? I mean he changed his vote to dimochka. Or do you know something I don't? Basically confirmed town isn't town.
If jimbob is scum, I will eat first my own hat, and then every hat ever given in the Time thread. Do you think he's scum? We haven't strictly confirmed town, you're right, and my wording was thus imprecise. But functionally, actually, in the game, jimbob is not a scum candidate for me. Jimbob is the towniest, and you're not too far behind.

So two nights of immunity after the night targeted. What if Esthr was the last mafia player? what use is immunity then? Now we have a mislynch, now we might have had a mislynch if
Esthr is town, but unless everyone really thought mpolo was scum(or me I guess) then they should have questioned the votes a bit more...especially Carlington. So FOS:Carlington
Hope for the best; prepare for the worst. We've hit one scum so far, and the game could potentially last for days yet since we don't even know how many scum there are left. If there's a chance of my towniest read being bulletproof for the rest of the game or for two nights, I am not going to do anything to jeopardise that. Sure, dimochka was effectively bulletproof if scum believed his PGO claim, but that was claimed to expire last night anyway and I was reading him as awfully scummy.

This should not have been enough to change your vote:
Esthr wrote: Do not lynch me and I will target jimbob tonight. Tomorrow, he can confirm that he is invulnerable on N3 and N4.
Then this removes all suspicion from Esthr? Well if we lynched her we would know if she was telling the truth AND we know her alignment!(No I don't think we should lynch people just to know there alignment but waiting to see if someone ends up dead the next night isn't a good method either) If jimbob was killed then we wouldn't have a result either.
If jimbob turned up dead this morning, I'd have immediately pushed to lynch Esthr - maybe scum could have exploited that, but after her play at the end of yesterday and dimochka's flip she's my next pick for scum right now so I'm all for lynching her anyway. (Look back at D1 as well - Sabrar's at L-1 near end of day, and Esthr goes into "panic mode", switches votes, and all of a sudden there's a competing wagon on emlightened out of nowhere.)


@Carlington: Why don't they make sense? It's possible emlightened wasn't the target, and if Esthr is telling the truth SirG has immunity and wouldn't be a good target, which leaves me, you, jimbob, mpolo and Esthr.
Of these 5 at least one is mafia, and only 2 didn't follow the same vote, I wouldn't target me because I could have accidentally give mafia a no lynch so I guess they targeted mpolo. I do feel like jimbob should have been target, which does raise a few questions but I don't see anything completely odd. Judging from the roles that were rejected/ lied about we might have more than one death tonight though.
I very much hope you're wrong about more than one kill tonight. That leaves us with two alive, which will be game over one way or another - I'd rather not have the game decided by a shot in the dark, as it were. Of the remaining players last night, surely jimbob or Esthr made more sense as kill targets? As was pointed out yesterday, jimbob to avoid the bulletproof townie, or Esthr to take the possibility off the table altogether.

hang on, I have to go find a post I want to quote because something's off

here:
Esthr wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Esthr, to clarify, does your role prevent death, say N2 and N3, if you targeted someone N2, or N3 and N4?

I targeted SirGabriel on N1. He was still vulnerable on N1, but is now immune on N2 and N3. That's the balancing factor; scum can still kill my target before the protection activates.

Because of this, if I target jimbob tonight scum will have two options. Either kill you before the protection kicks in, or kill me to prevent use of my power in the future.
Same post as the claim you talked about for why SirG wasn't NK'd. If Esthr's killed, how does she know her power will still go through? Killing her would presumably both stop jimbob being protected and take the power out of the game.

Fuggit,

Vote: Esthr

unless and until somebody can give me a decent reason for it not to be there, that vote stays put.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:57 am UTC

That was unexpected.
adnapemit, did you receive my gift? (I'm only asking because I received my own gift and I'm not sure if it was a redirect or a copycat.)
I have information I could share, but as that information is potentially dangerous in the hands of scum, I'd like to hear from jimbob about Esthr's ability before I consider revealing it.

Also, I'm on break this week with limited internet access.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:18 am UTC

Well that was an unexpected series of results and claims. Proper post to follow soon, but first I think it's worth pointing out that we could be at LYLO, if we have 2 scum left.

Not actually expecting an answer but:

[b]Will we be told if we are at LYLO or MYLO?[/b

@Carlington, could you remove your vote for now, as if there are two scum amongst me, SirGabriel and adnapemit, your vote could lose us the game.

I am waiting for a response to a PMed question from the mod before I reveal night results.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:26 am UTC

EBWOP to fix formatting:

Will we be told if we are at LYLO or MYLO?
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Snark » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:32 pm UTC

Deadline in ~5.5 days.

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

Votals:
Esthr - 1 - (Carlington)


jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Will we be told if we are at LYLO or MYLO?
No
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:51 pm UTC

I don't see any reason not to disclose this: I did not find out about anybody new targeting me last night (confirmed by mod). The way I see it, that either means a) Esthr didn't target me last night and is lying, or b) some other ability prevented me receiving the ability. This could have been Esthr being roleblocked, Esthr being redirected, or some more wacky ability. Not sure if I mentioned this already, but I won't necessarily know about scum factional abilities, which could mean that Esthr (or somebody else) did still target me, but tried to kill me and failed.

FoS Esthr for potentially not targeting me.

On the night kill: it doesn't surprise me that I wasn't the target. With in most people's eyes me being the towniest player (I was higher on Carlington's town to scum list than even himself!) I may have been too obvious a target, and therefore the subject of other people targeting me.

Does anybody think it is time to do full claims from everyone, given the possibility of LYLO?

Current claims as far as I understand them:
jimbobmacdoodle - can see when others use a new ability on himself, but not who. Also has an ability he can use at night. Has seen Carlington's (presumably), adnapemit's and SirGabriel's abilities. Did not see anyone new last night.
Carlington - targeted me N1. Doesn't have anything to claim about last night, other than he targeted someone.
adnapemit - grants lynch immunity. Can't target same person twice. Targeted me N1. Didn't target anyone N2.
SirGabriel - gives gifts, either beneficial or deadly. Targeted me N1. I received a gift that night. Targeted adnapemit N2. Received his own gift (or a copy), N2.
Esthr - gives two nights of NK immunity following night of target. Targeted SirGabriel N1. Targeted me N2 (claimed, but I did not get the new ability).

@Carlington - is the extra part of your ability you mentioned yesterday the same as why last night wasn't useful for you?

If we do agree to claim, I'd suggest the following claim order: Esthr, SirGabriel, adnapemit, Carlington, me. I know that the first three don't likely have much left to claim, but they might have secondary abilities or traits that they haven't disclosed yet.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:42 pm UTC

jimbob, seems possible and reasonable
unvote

To answer your question, in a sense that is the case. A combination of my ability and my target led to no useful information. To wit, my result was you, which is nonsense given your most recent claim and thus must be untrue. I'm happy to full claim in your suggested order, if everyone agrees.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:12 pm UTC

Mod mistake, I did not receive my own gift.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Esthr » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:59 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:a) Esthr didn't target me last night and is lying, or b) some other ability prevented me receiving the ability.
c) Jimbob is lying about not being targeted.
I'm not accusing you, but it is worth mentioning as a possibility.

That being said, I really don't like this. None of the four claimed or semi-claimed powers seem to be capable of roleblocking. I think we are at 3/1/1 which is not LYLO, but at this point I'm quite curious about Carlington's power, and anyone else's secondary powers, so I support a full claim from everyone.

My chosen and rejected roles have been posted in their entirety, and I've already given my N1 and N2 targets, so I don't have anything else to claim.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:12 am UTC

I support jimbob's mass claim idea, so I guess I'm next.
I am Shuckle. Each night, I can give one player a Berry Juice (I can't target the same player twice). Berry Juice protects from nightkills the night on which it is used, or the night following the day on which is was used, unless I poison it, in which case it kills the user at the end of the day/night on which it is used.
I don't think I've revealed Smeargle's role yet: each night, Smeargle could choose one player to paint. The first time I paint any given player, I learn what Pokémon they are. The second time, I learn their role abilities. And the third time, I learn their alignment. But it takes too long to get useful information for it to be a useful cop, so I went with the doctor-like role instead.

I think Esthr is still the scummiest player, but I'm suspicious of Carlington for voting for dimochka yesterday. jimbob's plan, as far as I could tell, was to lynch the second-scummiest player, practically force scum to nightkill him, use his Berry Juice, and then wake up in the morning with Esthr's role confirmed and no one dying overnight. And that is clearly a terrible plan if you don't know about the Berry Juice.

On the other hand, the fact that Esthr and jimbob are both still alive makes more sense if Esthr is scum than if Esthr is town: if town!Esthr was telling the truth, then last night was probably their only opportunity to kill jimbob, since he seems to be virtually confirmed town in everybody's eyes, and if they didn't kill jimbob, they would want to get rid of Esthr's ability. It's possible that there are two scum left and they want to lynch Esthr today and jimbob tomorrow, but it seems unlikely.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby adnapemit » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:08 am UTC

I have revealed all of mine already. I chose Diancie, I can give immunity to votes/lynch and I can't target the same person twice.

SirGabriel wrote:Mod mistake, I did not receive my own gift.

I have received it now. Did you poison it?
Carlington wrote:If jimbob is scum, I will eat first my own hat, and then every hat ever given in the Time thread. Do you think he's scum?
I don't think he is scum, he still looks the towniest of everyone. But I can not bring myself to go anywhere near saying he is town.

Something still doesn't make sense. If Esthr lied then why not just kill Jimbob? Now that we got a result from jimbob which says he wasn't targeted then him not being the target is odd.

If she was town then I think she wouldn't of lied about her ability and targeted jimbob.
If she lied about her ability I would think she would be scum trying to hide a scummy ability, but then why didn't she just kill jimbob.
It would almost make sense with a roleblocker but that seems almost impossible at this stage. I don't see how SirG could have that ability and I don't have it. Jimbobmacdoodle or Carlington could... but it seems unlikely jimbob would gain more from the immunity to night kills and jimbob maybe, sort of, kind of knows part of Carlington's ability. I would think jimbob might have mentioned it with his result reveal if it was a possibility.
Esthr could be a roleblocker but then she wouldn't have to use her ability and just not target jimbob.

I think it's still most likely that Esthr didn't target jimbob because she lied about her ability or doesn't want to give immunity (if that is even her ability) to jimbob because she is scum. But I definitely need to do a proper reread of everything.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:36 pm UTC

That makes it my turn, then. Both my rejected roles have been claimed. I am Lotad, a watcher/tracker. I get to see the name of one player (not every player) that visited my target, or that my target visited, depending. If I would otherwise receive no result, I am given the name of one player chosen at random from the list of living players, minus myself and my target. Night 1 I watched jimbob, and got adnapemit, which is consistent with both jimbob's and adnapemit's claims. N2 I tracked mpolo - I needn't really say more on that front, but I got jimbob as a result which is also consistent.

Something weird is definitely going on. Esthr claims to have targeted jimbob, jimbob claims to have been targeted by nobody new. One of the two must be lying, and I am struggling to conceive of the idea of it being jimbob. But surely Esthr would realise how obvious it would be and how quickly she'd be caught in the lie? Although there's wine here too, because it's clearly such a poor play that scum would never make it, right? She also claims to have targeted SirG N1, which is inconsistent with the level of suspicion she was throwing at him ("double-FoS", anyone?). SirG, are you able to verify whether you were targeted? Does anything indicate to you that you had NK immunity last night?

Wild speculation follows, please provide feedback (and like, comment, subscribe for more! :P ):
D1 - A wagon forms on Sabrar, so Esthr and Sabrar use daychat (either that which they were given or that which Sabrar gave them) to come up with a plan to claim masons, which fails. Sabrar is lynched. dimochka claims PGO, and so ostensibly cannot be targeted for the NK.
N1 - Esthr attempts to NK SirGabriel. emlightened turns up dead, having chosen SirG as her trainer. Esthr now needs an alibi to cover having visited SirG, just in case she was spotted (I'm assuming that tracker/watcher results would turn up as Esthr visiting SirG, even if emlightened took the bullet)
D2 - Esthr claims her protective role, and claims to have targeted SirG, nicely explaining any watcher or tracker results ahead of time. This claim also means SirG cannot be the NK target for the next two nights. A wagon forms on each of dimochka and Esthr, with Esthr pushing the dimka lynch (remember that he cannot be NK'd - circumstantial, but still something). Esthr says she will target jimbob, who can confirm her power.
N2 - mpolo is killed. Esthr has already claimed that she'll target jimbob, so cannot try to establish an alibi the same way as on N1.
D3 - Esthr seems quite taken aback by dimochka's reveal. jimbob claims that Esthr did not target him. Esthr tries to frame this as jimbob potentially lying, for which I refer you back to this handy and thematic quote:
emlightened wrote:
Carlington wrote:This idea can work even for something as simple as raising the suggestion that there could be a cult - I have seen this very thing lead to a majority of players assuming there was a cult in the game, all from the mere mention.


I think that jimbob being alive today means we only have one scum remaining. This late in the game, if there are two scum then they can afford a one-for-one trade to keep the final scummate alive until endgame by ensuring the lynch hits Esthr. Obviously one scum can't make the same gambit. Possibly one living scum would need to rely on a gambit like claiming to have a power that makes you immune to night kills.

I might be tunneling on Esthr a little (just a little). It's also possible that jimbob is lying, in which case I would need to re-evaluate completely. Most importantly right now, though, I ought to go to bed. I'll re-read in the morning with a view to focusing more on other players.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Snark » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:46 pm UTC

Deadline in ~4.5 days. (6 days from D3 start post)

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

Votals:
None
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:10 pm UTC

I'm currently waiting on another mod response to a question regarding my ability. I will full reveal once I have a response, and the following question is answered.

@Carlington - something doesn't quite fit with the information I have. Are you absolutely certain that you only receive one name as a response to your ability, regardless of the number of people they targeted when watching?

I'll explain the reason for the question once I get both responses.

<Ninja'ed by mod response to PM - never mind, that fits now.>

In the meantime, everything so far fits what information I have, except Esthr's claim, as already noted. It's probably worth pointing out that scum!me would only lie in one of two situations that I can think of: 1) I am scum buddies with Esthr, and am deliberately bussing her to "confirm" my towniness for the final day. 2) I have a different scum buddy, and so we are at likely LYLO.

Hmmm... something else is pinging me slightly:

@Carlington - why did you choose to track mpolo?

Full reveal to follow once I've eaten lunch, which has just finished cooking.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:01 pm UTC

I don't know whether I have nightkill immunity.
I have not poisoned any Berry Juices, and I am not going to poison any in the future.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:04 pm UTC

Ok full reveal time:

I am Mew (good guess SirGabriel). I can learn almost any Pokemon power. At the end of any day or night, I receive all power's that I was targeted with in that period that I am able to copy. The wording in the PM suggests that is all abilities, but there is a chance that it's not. Once per turn cycle, I may use one of the powers I have received. It is unclear whether I would be able to copy emlightened's ability, so I don't know if she targeted me or not.

At the end of N1, I received three new abilities: Paranoid watcher (random result if nobody seen), the ability to give a Berry Juice to a player (poisoned or normal, as per SirGabriel's ability, including the one use per player), and the ability to grant lynch and vote immunity to one player for the next day (max once per player). These abilities all match what Carlington, SirGabriel and adnapemit said they targeted me with. On N1 I also received a Berry Juice. On N2, I received no new abilities. I used the watcher action on Carlington, and got Esthr as a result. I targeted Carlington, because I knew he wouldn't use a watcher action on himself, and scum might think he had a useful ability, since he had not claimed one yet, but had claimed that he targeted me.

Since I never revealed Ditto's ability, as people surmised it was another form of copycat ability. At the beginning of each day, Ditto became a copy of a Pokemon that died since the previous day started.

Do people think I should reveal whether I drank the Berry Juice yesterday/last night or still have it in reserve?

I think my watcher result was likely a random result. In my opinion, it is almost certain that Esthr targeted either me (town, or at least truthful scum), or mpolo (scum killing). It's worth noting that we do not know if scum can use a faction kill as well as a player ability, so it's possible she could have done both. It's also possible that she was redirected somehow. If she is town and scum had such an ability, Esthr would be the obvious target, since it would likely lead to us lynching her.

Like I mentioned already, all the claims make sense to me, except Esthr's.

Let's look at each individual now, to see who could have killed mpolo and emlightened (or at least targeted emlightened's trainer). I'm assuming that a scum kill cannot be combined with a player ability, but as noted earlier, that's not certain:
SirGabriel's target last night was confirmed by adnapemit, so he can't have performed the kill. I received a gift N1 from him, so he can't have killed emlightened.
adnapemit's ability is publicly announced, which means that she definitely targeted me N1, and targeted nobody N2. That means she could have killed mpolo, but not emlightened.
Carlington definitely targeted me N1, based on the fact that I gained his claimed ability, so he couldn't have killed emlightened. As far as I'm aware, nobody can confirm Carlington's ability last night, so he could have killed mpolo.
Esthr's ability or target has not been confirmed by anyone (with the exception that she might have targeted Carlington last night, but it's not guaranteed), so could have killed both mpolo and emlightened.
mpolo and dimochka both are confirmed town due to their flips, and had no access to a kill, so couldn't have killed emlightened.
For completeness, I don't think anybody can confirm my actions on either night, so I guess I'm also a possible killer.

From my point of view, the only possible killer of emlightened is Esthr, unless we accept the possibility of scum being able to kill and use an ability, in which case, I really can't offer any useful thoughts, beyond looking at voting patterns etc. As for mpolo, any of Esthr, Carlington or adnapemit would be possible.

Other thoughts - why was mpolo targeted? SirGabriel's relatively late vote switch and Carlington's hammer could both be seen as scummy, so not choosing them would be logical. I think everyone views Esthr as most likely scum from D2, so if she isn't, scum would have been foolish to kill her, if town. adnapemit's claimed ability seems very weak for town, so seems unlikely to be a sensible target. That leaves me and mpolo. Mpolo hadn't claimed an ability yet, so could have been seen as a tempting target. I was perhaps too obvious a target, and could easily have been subject to a protective or similar power of some kind, so targeting me would have been a waste, plus there's the wine of solid-looking town is still alive, leads to suspicion.

I think I'm going to leave it there, since this is yet another wall of text from me...

Ninja'ed by SirGabriel - a scum would say that though, wouldn't they :P
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:09 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I am Mew (good guess SirGabriel).

Correct about jimbob, adnapemit, and dimochka - not bad.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Ninja'ed by SirGabriel - a scum would say that though, wouldn't they :P

I suppose so.

No time for an analysis post (sorry for my limited content this week, but there's no WiFi here and only 2 computers for the 200 of us to use, so I don't want to stay on too long when others are waiting), but I'm confident Esthr is scum, and I'm willing to vote for her whenever people decide it's a good idea to start voting.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:19 am UTC

mpolo was the player I knew least about, and the player who we had least information about re: powers. Had he been alive and claiming this morning, I would potentially have been able to corroborate his claim based on my result. I already had information on adnapemit and jimbob, Esthr and SirG had partial claimed, and I obviously know myself; this leaves mpolo.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:45 am UTC

Carlington wrote:Obviously one scum can't make the same gambit. Possibly one living scum would need to rely on a gambit like claiming to have a power that makes you others immune to night kills.

I noticed this error in my post during the re-read I just did, which has only made me feel more confident that Esthr is scum. I won't vote before she's had a chance to defend herself - but it had better be a very sound defence. I'm also interested to know what makes her think we're at 3/1/1 - what independent is it that you suspect in this game, Esthr?
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby adnapemit » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:28 am UTC

I still think Esthr is scum but I have a few questions. I also want to do a complete reread just to be sure.
Carlington wrote: I get to see the name of one player (not every player) that visited my target, or that my target visited, depending.
Do you get to pick if it was visited or was visiting? Or are you told if they visited or were visiting? If no one visited but they visited someone else, could you get a random result?
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:05 pm UTC

Sorry, I wasn't very clear with my wording. Each night I can choose to watch or to track one player. Regardless of which I choose, my result is always one name, it just changes whether it's the name of someone who visited my target or someone who my target visited. Depending on which one I choose, if nobody visits that player then I get one random name, or if that player visits nobody then I get one random name.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby adnapemit » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:44 pm UTC

Thanks for clarifying.
So Carlington's result must have been random and Jimbob's was either random or Esthr targeted Carlington(I would guess the former as there was no obvious effects)

Things I noted from rereading everything:
After discussion from day one I really don't understand why everyone ended up lynching dimochka.
SirGabriel appears more townie than I remembered but Jimbobmacdoodle's posts appear more scummy, If it wasn't for the early vote for Sabrar then I would really be reconsidering him for scum. (maybe I'm just hoping he really is scum)
Overall Carlington's had a pretty neutral feel to his posts.
Esthrs posts were pretty townie on day one.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Do people think I should reveal whether I drank the Berry Juice yesterday/last night or still have it in reserve?

I would like to know. As I am a likely target and would like to know if it's safe to drink(mine could still be poisoned but the odds are better if you survived).


Might as well include a list:
town
---
adnapemit
SirGabriel
Carlington
jimbobmacdoodle
Esthr
---
Scum

Are we ready to vote?
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:22 pm UTC

I want to wait to hear whether Esthr has anything to say for herself before voting.

@adnapemit - I'll wait to hear whether anybody else has any thoughts before revealing. For what it's worth, I'd probably recommend not drinking it, just in case anyway (if SirG is scum and the drink is poisoned, and we mislynch and a successful NK happens, town loses). Even the fact that you _could_ drink it is probably enough to make scum think twice about targeting you.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Snark » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:15 pm UTC

Deadline in ~3.5 days. (6 days from D3 start post)

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Esthr » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:02 pm UTC

Let's see. Everyone has claimed and everyone's claims and targets are consistent with everyone else's. No one would have been able to redirect my target. Jimbob is obviously town, so he wouldn't lie about his result. Therefore, I must be scum.

Vote: Esthr

Seriously. I'm at the top of everyone's scum list and dragging it out is just causing me stress. There's probably only one remaining mafia, so a mislynch won't cost us the game yet.

For what it's worth, jimbob is now at the top of my scum list, but he's played town so well, I can't actually come up with an argument that's convincing even to myself. SirGabriel also looks bad for jumping on dimochka yesterday. (I did the same thing, but that was to save myself.) How about something like this,

Town

adnapemit
Carlington
SirGabriel
jimbobmacdoodle

Scum

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Esthr » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:05 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:I'm also interested to know what makes her think we're at 3/1/1 - what independent is it that you suspect in this game, Esthr?

In my very first post, I said that either 7/2 or 6/3 would have balance issues, so there was probably an independent. No one has played the jester, so I guess there's a survivor. Or some other less common independent.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:37 pm UTC

Well, Esthr appears to have given up. Does anybody else have anything to say before we lynch her?

Carlington, SirGabriel, do you believe I should reveal whether I used the Berry Juice yesterday? By not revealing, scum have to try to guess whether I could use it today and be NK immune tonight. By revealing, adnapemit, and potentially whoever else may end up with SirG's gift tomorrow (Carlington presumably) can gain a slight measure of trust, if I drank it already.

I certainly don't think we can rule out a redirector or roleblocker of some kind, but I'm pretty confident SirGabriel wouldn't be it, since that would mean the ability to use two actions in one night. If pushed, I'd lean slightly in favour of adnapemit above Carlington having a scum ability of some kind in addition to their other ability, since a combi watcher/tracker makes more sense than a watcher/roleblocker/redirector. On the other hand, based on voting patterns, Carlington is slightly more likely than adnapemit to be scum, since he didn't vote for Sabrar D1. I don't have a strong opinion one way or another on the D2 voting. Regarding people's role claims, adnapemit's still sounds the scummier of the two, but to be honest, none of her claimed roles sounded useful for town, so I can't necessarily blame her for it.

@adnapemit, do you actually have anything concrete as to why I could be scum? If nothing else, for future reference I'd be interested in knowing what you find scummy looking, so that I can try and fix it in future games (whether as town or scum, not looking scummy is generally a good thing!). Also, if the game is still going tomorrow and you die tonight, any thoughts will be helpful to town.

Town to scum list:
Town
jimbobmacdoodle
SirGabriel (no scenario I run through in my head makes sense to me where he is scum, unless we have two scum and neither is Esthr)
Carlington/adnapemit (can't make up my mind which way round these two should go)
Esthr (I think it's most likely I'm overthinking things about the redirector/roleblocker, so this is where my vote will go once discussion is finished)
Scum

If people want to hammer, go ahead, though I'd mildly appreciate adnapemit's response first. I won't vote for now in case anybody wants to ask me questions, and I don't want a careless or scum vote to end the day early.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:39 pm UTC

Esthr wrote:
Carlington wrote:I'm also interested to know what makes her think we're at 3/1/1 - what independent is it that you suspect in this game, Esthr?

In my very first post, I said that either 7/2 or 6/3 would have balance issues, so there was probably an independent. No one has played the jester, so I guess there's a survivor. Or some other less common independent.

Ah, so you did. Fair enough, sorry for not checking more thoroughly.

jimbob, I think you meant to say @Esthr instead of @adnapemit?
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:56 pm UTC

Nope, I meant adnapemit who said she found me more scummy on a reread, although the question is relevant for Esthr I guess, just less so.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Esthr » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:03 am UTC

So I think I've realized something. But it's late here, and I need time to gather my thoughts. I ask that no one hammers until I have a chance to post tomorrow.

Unvote

To address Carlington, I don't think I explicitly said in my post, but I believe jimbob is lying about not receiving my power.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby adnapemit » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:37 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@adnapemit, do you actually have anything concrete as to why I could be scum? If nothing else, for future reference I'd be interested in knowing what you find scummy looking, so that I can try and fix it in future games (whether as town or scum, not looking scummy is generally a good thing!). Also, if the game is still going tomorrow and you die tonight, any thoughts will be helpful to town.
Nothing concrete really, but I could possibly build a reasonable amount of suspicion that you are scum, I thought I read something yesterday that could be interpreted in a few ways but I can't find it today. I could also build a pretty strong case for everyone being scum though. As I read through your posts there seemed to be rapid shifting of opinion for very little reason, there was support for dimochka, distrust of dimochka then you voted for dimochka. Your first post d2 said you don't think Esthr is scum, came to the conclusion that Esthr was scum but didn't want to hammer instead you voted for dimochka(Why? You were the first to vote for dimochka. You didn't have to vote at all. You then unvoted and then re-voted once others had joined the wagon that you had "only partially intended to start".) Unvoting could have been a way to make it look like you weren't the person who started it possibly making your name appear third instead of first on the list of votes for dimochka(It didn't but it could have).
Oh and your results, I understand not wanting to reveal too much information d2 but we have very little proof that you have/used your ability and we are expected to believe your results for Esthr are truthful.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:13 am UTC

Thank you adnapemit. Those are good points. My opinion changed on Esthr mostly because I didn't believe two scum to have had a reason to do the chat ability, until somebody pointed out that it might have been to get day chat, and therefore allow for better co-ordination during the day. This, combined with having good reasons to believe everyone else made me reconsider Esthr. As for dimochka, I wanted to present an alternative option, where I could try and at least confirm Esthr's ability. Of course, following that option wouldn't have confirmed Esthr as town, but at least I'd have been immune to the NK for two nights, reducing scum's options and therefore making it more likely to catch them with my watch action. On the other hand, if she lied about the ability, I'd know. As I think I noted then, dimochka was the best choice for me as an alternative because he was the second scummiest on my list. I chose to vote, because I wanted to nail my colours to the mast as it were. I then unvoted dimochka, because I was slightly concerned about how quickly the wagon switched, with little reasoning from SirGabriel, and wanted to give myself a bit more time to think. I then revoted him after considering the options some more. I did actually consider No Lynch at one point, but I figured that wouldn't really help matters much.

FWIW, assuming the game does not end after the lynch, I could use my action tonight to give SirG or yourself a Berry Juice (SirG couldn't give it to either of you), but the only reason to do so would be to confirm my ability (and that's assuming there's no redirection shenanigans going on, that I don't target scum or their target, and that I don't get targeted and flip myself), since unless I decided to poison it, it would have no useful effect that I know of from then, and the only reason I'd poison it is if I am sure who is scum (or am scum myself of course). It wouldn't confirm me as town. I am open to suggestions for my action tonight, if people want. I won't be using adnapemit's ability, unless I am absolutely certain of somebody not being scum (even then, I'm not sure there's a good reason to).

On the note of the Berry Juice, it has occurred to me that I might as well say this. I either used it yesterday, or I will use it during the day today. That means that if I don't mysteriously die at the start of night, you can consider using it tonight. If I do die, you shouldn't use it.
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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Snark » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:35 pm UTC

Deadline in ~2.25 days. (6 days from D3 start post)

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

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Re: PyPokemon 2 [Day 3: Kanto's Commitment]

Postby Snark » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:49 pm UTC

Deadline in ~1.5 days. (6 days from D3 start post)

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

Votals:
None
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