Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (Game Over)

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Snark
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:07 pm UTC

Vote: Chane

Let's see how easy your easy lynch is, Chane. I call you a jester because you're acting like a jester. Shape up or ship out.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:16 pm UTC

Yeah, well, I accept your challenge. You better have some outstanding argument prepared in order to lynch me after I claim, and I can't wait to see what said argument would be.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:22 pm UTC

@Snark: if you think Chane is a Jester why are you voting for her? Shouldn't we focus on trying to find scum??

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:33 pm UTC

Chane wrote:Yeah, well, I accept your challenge. You better have some outstanding argument prepared in order to lynch me after I claim, and I can't wait to see what said argument would be.
To town!Shane:

You acting like scum now is the argument. it doesn't matter whether you claim main character in the series or claim mafia later, because I'm reading you based on how your acting - not on what your role PM says. Your role PM (if town) is not a get-out-of-jail free card to do nothing but post one-liners that are entirely unhelpful because no one else can see your role PM. What we can see is you acting like a jester.

To scum!Shane:

Just keep doing what you're doing. Get yourself lynched and be my guest.

To jester!Shane:

Well played. Getting a jester role your first game is always great because no one knows your meta yet and you can just act like you're acting now and breeze into a D1 lynch.



Sabrar wrote:@Snark: if you think Chane is a Jester why are you voting for her? Shouldn't we focus on trying to find scum??
I think Chane is acting like a jester. Two alignments can act like jester: Jester, and Scum. I'm willing to take the risk of wasting the D1 lynch (which is essentially a crapshoot anyways) in case they're scum playing the jester.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:38 pm UTC

Well, are you absolutely sure you wanna lynch my PR? Given my knowledge of my role PM, I'd say you'd be lynched if you try to lynch me, regardless whether I am alive or not. That's my answer to you. You can continue to try and lynch me and be lynched yourself the next day or you can drop this.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:41 pm UTC

Oh, and addendum: you were going at this since yesterday, and yet, I didn't see anyone else vote me besides you. So if your power to convince people is that great, why has no one else voted for me yet?

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:50 pm UTC

Chane wrote:Well, are you absolutely sure you wanna lynch my PR? Given my knowledge of my role PM, I'd say you'd be lynched if you try to lynch me, regardless whether I am alive or not. That's my answer to you. You can continue to try and lynch me and be lynched yourself the next day or you can drop this.

To town!Chane: If you get lynched, people are not going to say "Whelp, looks like we're all scum who voted for Chane since their role was so great". They're going to say "Well Chane was acting like an unhelpful jester and wasted our great power role". Go look up old posts by careyhammer in this subforum, and note how they ruined the D1 of every game they were in, because they acted entirely unhelpful regardless of their alignment and provided no positive value to game, besides letting everyone else avoid the D1 lynch by almost always being the target themselves. Please try to act like the opposite of careyhammer.

To mafia!Chane:
Try harder.

To jester!Chane:
Seriously, well done. You're really boiling my blood. You're doing really great and I commend you.

Chane wrote:Oh, and addendum: you were going at this since yesterday, and yet, I didn't see anyone else vote me besides you. So if your power to convince people is that great, why has no one else voted for me yet?
I never said anything to that effect. It was you that claimed I was pushing for your lynch. I don't need to convince people, and I'm not trying to. They can read your posts and derive their own opinion very easily without my help. You're making it easy.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:54 pm UTC

@Chane:
1. You're not going to make many friends with that tone.
2. A lot of players don't visit the forums during the weekend.
3. As for myself, I'm not going to vote for you as things stand now. Not because Snark's arguments don't make sense (actually they do) but because I cannot imagine a player being that aggressive as scum in a completely new environment and because I have a vague idea of why you don't want to reveal your role.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:00 pm UTC

EBWOP
4. Your defense of 'my PR is so great you must be scum for wanting to lynch me' unfortunately only works if you claim it before we lynch you. Given that you're reluctant to do so I wouldn't count on that in your place.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:07 pm UTC

Okay, I suppose I could. I am a doctor. Kind of.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:13 pm UTC

@Chane: Sigh. I didn't ask you to reveal your role, I just pointed out that you have to work harder on your defense. Claiming doctor is especially bad as that makes you a prime target for scum.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:18 pm UTC

Yeah, well, I thought this through.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:21 pm UTC

Obviously, as a doctor, I am a prime target, true, but....there are some truths that even the smartest couldn't perceive. Let's leave it at that.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby emlightened » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:03 pm UTC

Ugh, this is what I come back to after going to tea and my laptop running out of battery and me losing my post (I should have a proper one up later tonight).

I agree with Sabrar about your tone, Chane. "But....there are some truths that even the smartest couldn't perceive." is basically an insult to all of us, and I'm sure that any experienced player with flavour knowledge (which I am not) could come up with some very close hits to the truth (and some misses, obviously) within half an hour.

Chane is not a 'vanilla' doctor. She revealed that she was a doctor at a misinterpretation (?) of what Sabrar said.
She claims to know crucialityfactor's alignment (town/non-town), but has yet to reveal it.
She accuses Snark as scummy for finding her Jestery.
Chane has not included anything more than one/two-line posts, except for her first post - a list of truths/untruths.

Okay, since you asked people to ask direct questions: Chane, please could you list each player and say whether you find them townie or scummy, with at least one and a half lines of reasoning each. Somebody call me out on this if its an excessive ask.

To me, she looks like a newbie, and is either a townie frustrated at the situation she's found herself in and unsure on how to avoid the lynch, or is a panicking mafia, and is using half-truths to try to avoid a lynch.


As far as guessing town!Chane's role? She's a partial doc who claims to know crucialityfactor's alignment (and doesn't find him scummy, so that third-party/town), so that would suggest Mason-Doctor. She alludes to another reason to not lynch her, and that Snark would be killed for doing so, so that might be some sort of revenge power, but is far more likely just naïvety at how lynching normally goes, combined with having a PR. Mason-Doctor seems slightly too powerful, so I'd guess possibly some other form of private chat that doesn't guarantee alignments and he claimed third-party (or town) to her, or being a Jack-of-All-Trades instead of a doctor. Maybe a N0 cop ability?

Anyway, that's all just shooting in the dark. It'll be interesting to see what other people make of her roleclaim.



Snark wrote:
Sabrar wrote:@Snark: if you think Chane is a Jester why are you voting for her? Shouldn't we focus on trying to find scum??
I think Chane is acting like a jester. Two alignments can act like jester: Jester, and Scum. I'm willing to take the risk of wasting the D1 lynch (which is essentially a crapshoot anyways) in case they're scum playing the jester.

Its not wasting the D1 lynch, really, considering that if we don't lynch jester!Chane, then we're more likely to hit town on the D1 lynch than scum. Then again, this reasoning advocates a D1 NL, and stops us analysing the D1 votals properly for the D2 lynch, so I guess it's a bit of a grey area.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:05 pm UTC

I feel I need to make this post.
Snark wrote:To town!Shane:

You acting like scum now is the argument. it doesn't matter whether you claim main character in the series or claim mafia later, because I'm reading you based on how your acting - not on what your role PM says. Your role PM (if town) is not a get-out-of-jail free card to do nothing but post one-liners that are entirely unhelpful because no one else can see your role PM. What we can see is you acting like a jester.

Chane, I’m just going to assume you’re new to mafia because you never answered the question about your experience, despite being directly asked several times. You claimed “kind of” doctor. For the sake of this discussion in this post only I will accept your claim.

I’ve already stated very clearly that I believe there are no vanilla roles in this game. Here’s a possible setup for a power role heavy ten player game, based on what I have observed in recent games on this forum.

Mafia roleblocker
Mafia godfather

Town doctor
Town cop
Town tracker
Town watcher
Town one shot vigilante
Town jailkeeper
Bulletproof townie

Serial killer

I want to point out that just being a doctor does not make you the most important player in the game. The other power roles are important too. But more important than your power role is your overall contribution to the game, because winning will be a team effort. So Chane, if you are town I think that the best way you can help town is to contribute to the discussion because talking is how we catch scum. If you act aggressively over the top scummy, you will probably be lynched. This is bad for town because you are distracting from scumhunting and wasting D1 discussion. If all the discussion focuses on you, scum can slide through D1 with making little contribution, making it easier to avoid a scum slip and harder for town to draw connections between players later in the game. You may cause a mislynch, which often happens on D1 anyway but we should at least make an effort to try and lynch scum. And if you’re not going to help catch scum, you’re not going to be a great loss to town.

Chane wrote:Well, are you absolutely sure you wanna lynch my PR? Given my knowledge of my role PM, I'd say you'd be lynched if you try to lynch me, regardless whether I am alive or not. That's my answer to you. You can continue to try and lynch me and be lynched yourself the next day or you can drop this.

In all seriousness, if we lynch you today, it will take more than just Snark’s vote, and probably more than two votes. So if you are lynched today and flip town doctor, we are not going to assume everyone on your wagon is scum and lynch them tomorrow.

Snark wrote:To town!Chane: If you get lynched, people are not going to say "Whelp, looks like we're all scum who voted for Chane since their role was so great". They're going to say "Well Chane was acting like an unhelpful jester and wasted our great power role".

What Snark said. Chane, I hope you take this post not as an attack, but as an attempt to help a new player. Now that I’ve made the effort in this post, I will feel free to attack you on subsequent posts if your content doesn’t improve.

Ninja'd by emlightened. Will read and respond later.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby mpolo » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:13 pm UTC

I think we can drop the "Chane claimed to know cf's alignment" argument, because that was in the list of "I believe 6 of these 11 statements are true". I just feel like Chane is being pressured into early unnecessary claims, and then is being shifty about what she claims, which isn't helping her look any better.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:18 pm UTC

@mpolo: I assume you missed Chane's reply to emlightened query. Otherwise I wouldn't have taken anything on her list seriously as I missed the possible implication that emlightened pointed out.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:38 pm UTC

Soft deadline at 19.30 UTC, Wednesday 16th March (just under 71 hours).

10 players alive, 6 to hammer.

Votals:

emlightened(1): bessie
Chane(1): Snark

As first to reach 1 vote, if no further votes change before deadline, emlightened will be lynched.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Diemo » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:13 am UTC

Sorry everyone, I just read a spoiler :(
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby emlightened » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:33 am UTC

If I include little on some people, that's because I've just been trying to not include anything that's not a scum/town tell. If I call people scummy for calling me scummy, I'll try to be reasonable about it. Also, content based solely on conversations with Chane has been skipped, as I've discussed that already.

Diemo/replacement - Supports Miller claim. Misreads some power-town claims, and misreads Snark's list. None of these are the best, and his 'Meh. Fine.' is too dismissive for what I'd expect a townie to play. He votes Snark for not knowing that the Darkfeinds are mafia, extrapolating from his role PM that all town must have had mention of the Darkfeinds being mafia (scum would obviously already know this, though, unless third party, so this is invalid reasoning anyway). Flavour post (i.e. filler) followed. Scummy.

Chane - My above post already serves as a basis for what I think of Chane, but I'm not actually going to rate her scumminess until I get to see her analysis. She's a definite newbie, but I can't really read much in her posts. Annoying to read, but scummy.

mpolo - Immediate miller claim, which is slightly townie. Quick eval on each player: I think he overestimates the amount of pressure put on Chane, and overrates the towniness of kralia's flavour-based posts. Neutral-slightly townie.

Sabrar - Basic setup spec. He notices something to do with Chane's claims, and doesn't reveal it. @Sabrar: Does Chane claiming doctor relate to what you didn't want her to reveal more of? Lots of content that I like. Fairly townie.

crucialityfactor - I don't really like him saying he's supporting that he's town, but I don't think it's a tell. Too little content. Neutral-slightly scummy.

kalira - Large flavourdump as first post. They continue to rely on flavour (too much?) for much of their next post, and point out Chane being weird and a possible Jester. Slightly scummy.

Carlington - Nothing's wrong with his reads, but he hasn't posted much else because of RL issues. Neutral.

bessie - Starts off with some rolespec, and picks up points from each player. She says that my observation is odd as Chane's claim is random (which it isn't, as validated by her response to me (not to Sabrar)). Does a reads post later, none of which I particularly disagree with, but I would have liked to know the towniness/scumminess of players, considering that she voted. Moderately townie.

Snark - Odd list on some true/false statements, but that's not abnormal for him, and he dropped it soon afterwards, so null tell. He asks for people to state they're town and something obviously false, which seems pointless. Then, he claims that he (may or may not be) a Mason with Sabrar (see his first post for why Sabrar), which is interesting but isn't a tell. Moderately townie.

I'm not sure if asking Snark about whether he knows Sabrar's alignment is a good idea or not. (Same reason as with Chane and cruciality in my first post; noted now as I only noticed on a reread.)

~~~~~Town
Sabrar
Snark
bessie
mpolo
Carlington
crucialityfactor
kalira
Chane
Diemo
~~~~~Scum

Until I can decide on Chane:

Vote: Diemo

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby emlightened » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:43 am UTC

EBWOP: I should have had mpolo and bessie the other way around in that list. (Accounting for Miller claim and bessie's meta.)

~~~~~Town
Sabrar
Snark
mpolo
bessie
Carlington
crucialityfactor
kalira
Chane
Diemo
~~~~~Scum

"Therefore it is in the interests not only of public safety but also public sanity if the buttered toast on cats idea is scrapped, to be replaced by a monorail powered by cats smeared with chicken tikka masala floating above a rail made from white shag pile carpet."

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:45 am UTC

emlightened wrote:Then, he claims that he (may or may not be) a Mason with Sabrar (see his first post for why Sabrar), which is interesting but isn't a tell.
Where did I say this?

I don't feel any differently about Chane after their claim.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:57 am UTC

emlightened wrote:Does Chane claiming doctor relate to what you didn't want her to reveal more of?

Somewhat. It makes sense but it wouldn't have been my first guess. Depending on N1 actions/results I might reevaluate if what I suspect really needs to stay hidden.

On another note Snark's unwillingness to change his mind because of new information reminds me a lot of my own scum-play in Alternating 9P. And FWIW we're not Masons, nor do I know his alignment.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby emlightened » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:21 am UTC

Snark wrote:
emlightened wrote:Then, he claims that he (may or may not be) a Mason with Sabrar (see his first post for why Sabrar), which is interesting but isn't a tell.
Where did I say this?

I don't feel any differently about Chane after their claim.

I meant that you said that you had a connection with another player, which seemed to be masons given how you explained it, and it was most likely with Sabrar because that's who you mentioned in your first post.

"Therefore it is in the interests not only of public safety but also public sanity if the buttered toast on cats idea is scrapped, to be replaced by a monorail powered by cats smeared with chicken tikka masala floating above a rail made from white shag pile carpet."

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby mpolo » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:16 am UTC

O.K. I missed the line about "having a reason" to know CF's alignment. Which is making Chane look shadier than I was reading her. I really don't like lynching new players on Day One (you know, because they're new). Reading in this light, Chane is looking very jumpy and thus scummy. Even the claims that have come up are kind of jumpy — a character that seems unlikely, a "sort of" doctor. For the meta reason of not wanting to throw out the new player immediately, I'm going to keep an eye open for anything more blatant than this all, but at present, I have no active objections to Chane's lynch.

Hopefully, this won't be a problem. It appears that I will be offline from March 22 (afternoon, should have a few minutes in the morning to post) to March 27. If we have good luck with traffic, I might be able to check in in the evening on Easter Sunday. All should be more or less normal after that. Then again, I might manage to find limited time online during those days, but I wouldn't count on it.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:08 am UTC

@crucialityfactor, @kalira: there is a ton of new content since your last posts. Please give us your thoughts and possibly a townie-to-scum list as well!

@crucialityfactor: without revealing anything else, can you see a good reason based on the flavor why Chane could know your alignment? You didn't indicate in the sign-up thread that you were flavor-blind so I hope you have a good understanding of the setting.

@emlightened: where did Snark state that he has a connection with another player? I don't remember it and also couldn't find it upon re-read..

@bessie, @mpolo: my own role is the combination of some variations on 2 'standard' roles, although one of them is fairly rare so shouldn't be really categorised as standard but at least can be found on the mafiascum wiki. Therefore I do not find Chane's 'sort of doctor' claim suspicious in itself.

@all: obviously I'm against a Chane-lynch today, I hope that the night actions will reveal why. And just to expand upon my previous statement, I'm not Mason with her, I'm not Mason with anyone else, nor do I know any player's alignment other than my own.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:32 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:On another note Snark's unwillingness to change his mind because of new information reminds me a lot of my own scum-play in Alternating 9P. And FWIW we're not Masons, nor do I know his alignment.
If all it took for me to excuse jestery behavior and no content was a claim of "I'm a doctor sort of" then I would never be able to vote anyone. Instead of looking to your own play, read any of my games that I don't relieve pressure on people when I'm town unless they give a real reason for me to.

Sabrar wrote:@all: obviously I'm against a Chane-lynch today, I hope that the night actions will reveal why. And just to expand upon my previous statement, I'm not Mason with her, I'm not Mason with anyone else, nor do I know any player's alignment other than my own.
Do you have any information or reason to be treating Chane differently from another arbitrary player?
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:58 am UTC

If you give me till day 2, you'll have a reason. I can prove that I am indeed a doctor. If I can't, feel free to lynch me. Explain to me what have you got to lose? If I am scum, you lynch me tomorrow. Again, what do you have to lose?

ANSWER TRUTHFULLY OR I WILL HURT YOU.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:02 am UTC

Snark wrote:If all it took for me to excuse jestery behavior and no content was a claim of "I'm a doctor sort of" then I would never be able to vote anyone.

I'm talking more about how you don't even try to figure out the possible reasons behind Chane's claim.

Snark wrote:Do you have any information or reason to be treating Chane differently from another arbitrary player?

Yes, I'm treating her differently because she's new to this forum. In my first 2 games here I experienced some discomfort as people automatically applied their old and established meta to me, a player whom they knew nothing about. Same thing is happening here.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Suzaku » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:22 am UTC

Effective immediately, Madge replaces Diemo.

Please be careful when reading (and especially when quoting) the Gojoe discussion thread.
Replacements don't grow on trees, and if we can't replace you we'll have to modkill you.

Madge has informed us that she is busy, so it may be a day or so before she can catch up.
An extension will be considered if necessary.

mpolo, thanks for the heads-up. Shouldn't be a problem.
Actually, I think we might be in mod-madness pause by the end of that period.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby emlightened » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:32 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@emlightened: where did Snark state that he has a connection with another player? I don't remember it and also couldn't find it upon re-read.

Sorry, I misread Snark's post at the bottom of p1 to say that he was aligned with a town member i.e. that he knew who, not that he was aligned with town in general.

I think Chane is being overly aggressive, but unless this is just an elaborate ploy to get her night action in, and Sabrar is wrong (or scum), I'd guess that she's town.

One of the scummier players in the game, mind you, but town. (I think she's scummy based on how I expect people to act - Sabrar's comment on new people's metas hits this on the nose for me.)

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:40 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Snark wrote:If all it took for me to excuse jestery behavior and no content was a claim of "I'm a doctor sort of" then I would never be able to vote anyone.

I'm talking more about how you don't even try to figure out the possible reasons behind Chane's claim.
I would quote them all, but that's excessive. Anyone can go read Chane's posts in order to see that there is no rhyme or reason or hints to how Chane could have a good reason to be acting this way. I mean, look at this recent gem:
Chane wrote:If you give me till day 2, you'll have a reason. I can prove that I am indeed a doctor. If I can't, feel free to lynch me. Explain to me what have you got to lose? If I am scum, you lynch me tomorrow. Again, what do you have to lose?

ANSWER TRUTHFULLY OR I WILL HURT YOU.



Sabrar's quotes on Chane:
Sabrar wrote:As for myself, I'm not going to vote for you as things stand now. Not because Snark's arguments don't make sense (actually they do) but because I cannot imagine a player being that aggressive as scum in a completely new environment and because I have a vague idea of why you don't want to reveal your role.
Sabrar wrote:@all: obviously I'm against a Chane-lynch today, I hope that the night actions will reveal why. And just to expand upon my previous statement, I'm not Mason with her, I'm not Mason with anyone else, nor do I know any player's alignment other than my own.
Sabrar wrote:Yes, I'm treating her differently because she's new to this forum. In my first 2 games here I experienced some discomfort as people automatically applied their old and established meta to me, a player whom they knew nothing about. Same thing is happening here.
If you have no reason to treat Chane differently besides them being new, then why are night actions going to reveal why you're against a Chane-lynch? If you're soft-claiming an investigative role, know that the existence of cops is not a reason to not lynch scummy people D1. You lynch the scummy person then cop someone else. It's what you do. Now that Chane has revealed their role, why don't you share your vague idea why they wouldn't want to reveal?


If being new gets you this kind of free pass, I'm probably going to start getting some alt accounts ready for myself and play future games that way. It would be nice to have permanent D1 lynch protection. (There are other ways to avoid the D1 lynch, by active-lurking and never saying anything of substance, but that's not really my style.)
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:21 pm UTC

@Snark:
1. you only read Chane's posts in isolation and not consider the surrounding information that was shared.
2. I didn't state that night actions would definitely clear things up, I said I hope they would.
3. I'm not soft-claiming anything (I have no actions N1) but I do not like the way you continue to role-fish.
4. Chane didn't want to reveal because it would be bad for Town (alias good for scum). I do not plan to reveal it yet for exactly the same reason. You continue to fish for information that would benefit scum.
5. Being new doesn't get you a free pass but if you consider the content Chane provided and not just the tone you would see that she basically claimed everything about her role (at least if my theory is correct and I'm pretty damn sure about it).

FoS: Snark

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Madge » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:44 pm UTC

Hey friends! I actually have a moment to post on my phone now so why not :

Chane looks scummy but I really hate to lynch newbies on the first day (I feel it's inhospitable) so I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and find another candidate if possible.

Alternative targets from my skim earlier: snark for being snark and I feel like carlongton and Bessie need more of my scrutiny. This is all based on when I skimmed several hours ago so please don't take this personal, it's actually mostly because I find you three hard to read.

Just thought I'd post so you know I'm watching. Hopefully my activity will be normal, but tomorrow may be a busy day for me.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Chane » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:59 pm UTC

It's because of how things work on my home site. There, if you lynch a cop or a doctor, you automatically get lynched the next day. I am not sure if things are different here, but that's the way things work there.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby crucialityfactor » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@crucialityfactor, @kalira: there is a ton of new content since your last posts. Please give us your thoughts and possibly a townie-to-scum list as well!

@crucialityfactor: without revealing anything else, can you see a good reason based on the flavor why Chane could know your alignment? You didn't indicate in the sign-up thread that you were flavor-blind so I hope you have a good understanding of the setting.


I'm working through the weekend's posts and trying to formulate opinions. I will say that I am 100% flavor blind besides what has been posted in the thread and in my role PM. I think there are more than enough obvious situations for Chane to have claimed to know my alignment. Regardless of if they apply to this game's flavor or not. And I'd think that you should be able to figure them out yourself.

1) Masons
2) Lovers
3) Protector
4) Chane is Scum
5) It's all BS
6) Jester trying to get lynched

If you're asking me to claim something that'll protect and exonerate her, I can't do that. I will say that I'm surprised that this issue is still going on. But, that's probably due to how she is freaking out in her responses and alienating herself. Plus, it being Day 1, this is how things usually go down. Someone sticks their foot in their mouth in what was meant as an innocuous statement. Then they are either piled on and lynched, or they are forgiven and maybe even forced to overclaim (like what is happening now). I will say that I feel like there are players trying to suss out if Chane and I fit into the first two options, and to me that is super anti-town and dangerous in a game this small. Masons/Lovers getting exposed early only helps the mafia out. So I think that'll be my main focus in my read through.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby kalira » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:20 pm UTC

Apologies, was out of town for the weekend visiting the boyfriend. Working on catching up. Will post thoughts soon.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:03 pm UTC

Soft deadline at 19.30 UTC, Wednesday 16th March (approx 44 1/2 hours). Extension may be granted if requested.

10 players alive, 6 to hammer.

Votals:

emlightened(1): bessie
Chane(1): Snark
Diemo/Madge(1): emlightened

As first to reach 1 vote, if no further votes change before deadline, emlightened will be lynched.
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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby bessie » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:52 am UTC

I don’t have an updated reads list yet because I’m hoping for some content from crucialityfactor, kalira, and Madge, but here’s some more observations, starting at about the middle of page 2.

Carlington, thank you for the long post. It was more than I expected. I disagree with your suspicions on kalira for focusing on flavor, because it was early and the game was still in the setup spec, flavor spec, and random voting mode (even though no one random voted). But I will be suspicious of kalira if she doesn’t post some real content soon. I agree with this regarding content:
Carlington wrote:That's fair, and I misremembered the exact wording of the flavour knowledge section of the post in the signup thread. I'm a little less anti-flavour-focus in view of having checked that, but still prefer a focus on player analysis with flavour being used to supplement it, rather than vice-versa.


emlightened- My reason for voting for emlightened was that she attacked another player and didn’t follow up after that player responded, and for lurking. Since then she has responded to Chane and she has made a long analysis post. For the first part, I really don’t like that the response to Chane included quite a bit of role fishing, which I find very suspicious. But I do like most of the analysis post and while I don’t agree with all her reads I think that they’re all reasonably presented and supported (except for the read on Snark, which I didn’t follow at all, but it looks like she corrected it later). What I don’t like is that she finishes it by throwing the question out as to whether or not we should ask Snark if he knows Sabrar’s alignment.

Sabrar- My possible 10 player setup wasn’t necessarily supposed to be a guess at this game’s setup, it was just supposed to be an example of a game where everyone has a power role. I was just trying to point out that winning will be a team effort, and that I think it’s wrong for one player to consider themselves more important than the other players. I didn’t offer my opinion on the validity of the “sort of doctor” claim and I did not ask for more role information. I don’t have any problems with the role. My suspicions are with the person making the claim.

Chane, you have been repeatedly asked for content, and you gave this response:
Chane wrote:I have provided content. I told you repeatedly, if you want more, ask me a direct questions instead of vague ones.

Here are some questions that have been directed at you. How about some answers?
bessie wrote:Chane- New to the xkcd mafia forum, do you have any experience playing mafia?

Sabrar wrote:@Chane: based on the content so far who are your best guess for the (assumed) 2 Mafia players? Why them?

Carlington wrote:Chane - I don't understand what you're doing. I'm unsure how much experience you have playing mafia in other venues - could you tell us how much experience you have? Your play seems newbie to me, but reminds me of my own newbie play as scum. As a direct question - what are your opinions on the rest of the players?

emlightened wrote:Okay, since you asked people to ask direct questions: Chane, please could you list each player and say whether you find them townie or scummy, with at least one and a half lines of reasoning each.


Chane, I know that your style is perhaps different from some of the other players, but I feel that everyone has been really trying to help you out here and that you’re not helping in return. You haven’t answered questions directed at you, and then you post this:
Chane wrote:If you give me till day 2, you'll have a reason. I can prove that I am indeed a doctor. If I can't, feel free to lynch me. Explain to me what have you got to lose? If I am scum, you lynch me tomorrow. Again, what do you have to lose?

ANSWER TRUTHFULLY OR I WILL HURT YOU.

First of all, how does one even prove they are a doctor, or a cop, or a roleblocker, or anything else? The only proof is in bold from the mod, anything else is just a claim. Second, exactly what is the question that you would like answered truthfully? How would you even know if I lie and how are you going to hurt me for it? I don’t see how this kind of threat is useful. I’m really trying to understand your scummy behavior as a difference in gameplay style but you’re making it difficult, so I will do this:

Unvote
Vote: emlightened


So Chane, you have the following choices. First, you can convince Snark you aren’t scum so he unvotes. Second, you can start contributing by helping to find scum, voting, and giving reasons for your vote. Finally, you place vote on someone that already has a vote without giving a reason, but be forewarned that if you place a save-your-ass vote without a reason to back it up I will find that very suspicious.

More later, hopefully we will hear from crucialityfactor, kalira, and Madge soon.

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Re: Wheel of Time - The Horn of Valere (D1)

Postby Snark » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:03 am UTC

bessie - As townie as the day is long (and the days are moderately long right now), is a brilliant bovine MIDDLETOWN
Carlington - Does too good of a job of not saying anything controversial D1, is a slippery salmon SUPERNEUTRAL
Chane - Not even a noob so no excuse for their behavior, is a shrieking skunk SUPERJESTERSCUMBADCLAIMER
crucialityfactor - Getting ready to tunnel on people for voting for scummy behavior, is a myopic mandrill SOMEWHATSCUMMER
Diemo/Madge - Should read fewer spoilers, is a gnawing gnat SOMETIMESCUMRHYMES
emlightened - Have no clue why anyone would vote them. More content than anyone else and reasonable, is a effortless eagle SOMEWHATTOWN
kalira - Knows the ways of this world, needs more content - is an omniscient owl NEUTRALMILKHOTEL
mpolo - Would bet any in-game stakes on them being town. If not, first scum claiming miller I've ever heard of, is a luxurious lion SUPERTOWN
Sabrar - Would vote for them if someone asked politely, closer to neutral than scum, is a slippery snake NEUTRALSCUMSCUMNEUTRAL
Snark - I'm generally a fan though their playstyle sometimes annoys me, is a maddening mosquito BEGRUDGINGLYIMUSTADMITTOWN
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