FAC668 - Game Over

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dimochka
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Re: FAC668 - Day Three

Postby dimochka » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:26 pm UTC

I'm here and still re-reading, actually right on that same point of moody vs. madge, so should hopefully have that soon. I guess I'm not really going to fight for/against Sabrar at this point because I do think he's more likely scum than town, but I'd still like to see some thoughts from moody and madge.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Three

Postby SDK » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:37 am UTC

You guys haven't voted yet? Better get to it one way or another. Don't want scum coming in to steal the lynch at the last minute!
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Sabrar
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:01 am UTC

Carlington wrote:I wake up to this?


SDK wrote:I'm sorry. I haven't had time for this game - not as much as I thought I would when I signed up as a replacement, at least.
This is really unfortunate because you give me no way of defending myself. No reasons listed, no reaction to why I found dimochka's attack on me scummy, nothing. It's like you found a suitable mislynch target and latched unto it.

Now LYLO theory 101 says that I must vote for you in this situation. Will probably do so but want to think about it first.

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Re: FAC668 - Day Three

Postby dimochka » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:52 am UTC

I re-read moody, and I see very little of his own opinions out there. Mostly responses and some lists.

vote sabrar

because I still think that he's more likely scum than town, and i don't want to go down to rng and/or have two scum vote together. If we make it to d4, i'll reexamine moody vs. madge.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Three

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:58 am UTC

Then I guess it doesn't matter what I do anyway...

Vote: SDK

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Re: FAC668 - Night Three

Postby mpolo » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:26 am UTC

Discussion was very hushed and furtive, as though the denizens of Xkcdia were convinced that disaster would accompany any mistake here. Finally, in the last moments of the day, two persons became concerned that the small pack of wolves might indeed be a sign of something far more sinister. The wolves howled at the coming moon, crying that a stick figure would be a much better victim of the town's justice. In the end, the wolves were placed in a sack full of bricks and thrown over the bridge.

Sabrar is dead. Night will end on Monday, or when all actions are in.

Final votals:

Sabrar (2): SDK, dimochka
SDK (1): Sabrar
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby mpolo » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:49 am UTC

On the next day, the horror of the town-members was great. Huge pieces of stick-figure were strewn all over the main square. It was the remains of SDK, who had recently replaced flicky the somewhat avian pet shop owner. However, the sorrow at the loss of such a pillar of the community was mitigated somewhat when the bag of wolves was fished out of the river. Carved onto their little collars were the names "Guido", "Tony", "Giacomo" and "Giovanni". Clearly, they were an Italian Mafia Wolf Family that had invaded Xkcdia!

Sabrar was a Mafia Goon. SDK is dead. He was Vanilla Town. We are in End-game now, LYLO, all or nothing. Three players remain. Let's try to have hammer fall before Friday morning. Clock for the time-zone impaired.

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Madge
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby Madge » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:06 am UTC

oh for crying out loud why did i have to live to see this

so it's me, dim, moody.

if SDK says dim is 100% town and thinks me or moody is scum then I'm pretty well down with that based on SDK's track record.

moody thinks dim is scummy, very strongly.

Dim is scum:
- killed SDK to manipulate me and moody into being willing to lynch the other
- kept moody alive because he thinks dim is scummy and wants to reverse psychology me??
- kept me alive because i suck at this part of the game

Moody is scum:
- killed SDK because he was only ever going to vote for moody
- kept me alive because i think dim is scummy
- kept dim alive because he thinks moody is scummy and wants to reverse psychology me??

I'm going to go back through especially for yesterday and see if anyone was defending sabrar, though at this stage of the game getting off a good bus might have been enough

on the face of it i am leaning towards lynching dim from a combination of trusting dead townies, and it being better for scum!dim to kill SDK than scum!moody (that said.... i should look at each of the possible deaths, because if killing SDK was the best moody could do compared with even worse options then well we're done)
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Madge
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby Madge » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 am UTC

EBWOP: the entire quote below is just wrong and crap, I misread what SDK said, SDK seems pretty confident that moody is scum:

Madge wrote:on the face of it i am leaning towards lynching dim from a combination of trusting dead townies, and it being better for scum!dim to kill SDK than scum!moody (that said.... i should look at each of the possible deaths, because if killing SDK was the best moody could do compared with even worse options then well we're done)


Dim's NK candidates:
madge+moody think dim is scummy, SDK seems most confident he's town

So I'd put:
killable: moody > Madge > SDK :least killable

Moody's NK candidates:
madge has said she likes moody; SDK hates moody; dim hates moody. always good to keep SDK around at the end of the game because SDK seems scummy so I'm putting SDK above

killable: dim > SDK > Madge :least killable


so it looks like moody and dim should have killed each other imo, but SDK is a 'better' choice for moody and the 'worst' choice for dim. Of course wine says dim could have done that for reverse psychology.... argh
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dimochka
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby dimochka » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:33 pm UTC

To be honest I'm not sure of either of you, because it makes sense for both of you to have killed SDK, who considered the towniest, and let me fight it out with whichever of you is town.

Madge - if I were scum I would have lynched SDK, rather than Sabrar, at deadline. It would have been a cheap way to win, but a win nonetheless.

I'll be back tonight to do some more analysis.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby Madge » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:34 pm UTC

You're right. A cheap win is a win nonetheless, and honestly I think cheap wins are great because they keep town on their toes.

I'm going to give moody a chance to post for obvious reasons but... you literally being able to choose between scum and non-scum at the deadline on MYLO and choosing scum is pretty damn compelling.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby moody7277 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:21 am UTC

dimochka wrote:Madge - if I were scum I would have lynched SDK, rather than Sabrar, at deadline. It would have been a cheap way to win, but a win nonetheless.


Interestingly enough, I have exactly the same argument that says I'm town. If I were scum, I could have tied the vote right before the deadline which would have lynched SDK instead of Sabrar, I figure that in his last couple of posts, dim was working himself around to bussing Sabrar to get townie cred, killed SDK cause he's a good player, so he could go into D4 with just his chosen scum target he's been buttering up since D2 (moi) and his malleable townie (vous).
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby Madge » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:38 am UTC

You last posted 12 hours before deadline, whereas dim was posting right up to deadline, so IMO those are two very different situations. There's no evidence you were able to get online in time to change the vote.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby dimochka » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:54 am UTC

Moody - I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts regarding which one of us is scum and why. I know you're biased against me and I'm biased against you, but it would still be really helpful if you tried to give your thoughts, however short, regarding both of us.

Without reviewing I do still think that Madge is more likely town, but as promised I will do a re-read later tonight and post my opinions. From what I recall, I did find her more scummy (mostly for very little content, IIRC), but I simply do not see her as scummates with Sabrar.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby Madge » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:13 am UTC

Yeah, the lack of content is entirely on me. I've realized I really don't like vanilla games unless I'm scum, I like powers, I like intrigue, I like all that sort of stuff, and then being sick I just was very much not motivated. I think if I had a cool power role or was scum I would have made more of an effort while I was sick. So, I'm not going to sign up for a vanilla game again because I don't think it's fair on the other players to thrust an unmotivated madge upon them. I'll still be willing to replace in because unmotivated Madge is more fun than a modkill.

That said I do enjoy the constrained nature of *this*, right here, where there are two people and I have to choose between them, because it becomes much less arbitrary who I pick if everyone has a very high chance of being scum and there's only two comparisons to make. That said I hate it because I hate the pressure. If I vote for the wrong person then town is going to be "oh Madge you screwed it up for us!" which is why I also hate this, just to make life more confusing.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby moody7277 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:49 am UTC

Madge had been looking townie to me up until I made a post-by-post list on 22 Jul, next ones are:

Post 9: Player list, thinks my town read on her is naive or scummy. Otherwise has a dim+Sabrar scum team.

Looks fairly neutral, but since it's what my opinion is on scum team, maybe some confirmation bias.

Post 10: Explains her statement re Carlington voters to SDK, and opinion of him thereby. Town to scum list with team of Sabrar and dim, Sabrar lynch more informative.

Post 11: illness, and reiterating points from previous

Post 12: detailed read on dim. interupted by external events.

Post 13: laments about being alive at 3-person LYLO. Plays "Who would scum kill". Leaning toward dim being scum because of SDK's death

Post 14: continuation of previous with the conclusion that either I or dim ought to be dead.

Post 15&16: posts re lack of vote shenanigans at end of D3. In her opinion this leans more in favor of dim

Post 17: again apologetic for being out of it for a while, and some meta fluff.

The thoughtfulness in 13 and 14 despite circumstances still looks townie to me. Obviously that leads to my previous conclusion that dim has to be scum, or that 1% possibility that Madge got me again in which case GG.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Three

Postby dimochka » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:22 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Rebuttal of the initial attack and vote by dimochka on me. He mentions three items in his indictment:

My first post where I do some setup speculation that to him seems overly optimistic. Instead of suggesting that I'm being optimistic or showing why this situation would not guarantee a town victory, dimochka jumps to the conclusion that I'm trying to lull town into a false sense of security. Talk about blowing stuff out of proportion.

My attempt at a reads post. At the time I made it, the bulk of the discussion had been setup spec with some tactics derived from that and a smidgen of talk about IIWAC. Not a lot to work with, as was pointed out by SirG and Sabrar calling it early to be developing such a list. I'm sure dimochka would have done better in my position, no?

My voting flicky based off that reads list. dimochka's opinion is that since my reads list is worthless, taking action based off it is useless. He then votes for me at the end of his reads list. Ah, irony.

Conclusion: with Madge's declaration that she is thinking about voting him, dimochka feels the sharks circling. There's even a chance that his most recent post is bussing scummate!Sabrar in order to skate by on the goodwill delivering scum for a win D4.


Re Point #1:
moody7277 wrote:Two confirmed townies on D3 when we'd be down to six people, especially if we'd been unlucky in lynching previously, is a pretty solid foundation for a town win.

I don't really feel like I need to show why this situation won't guarantee town victory when we have 2 confirmed townies, 2 scum and two unconfirmed townies. One mislynch and we lose. So I really don't see this as a solid foundation for a town win.

Re Point #2: It's the same point on which I was pushing Sabrar. Some posts feel like contributing content when they really do not. I feel like that post was more of a summary, which is fine. What I didn't like was that you created a town-scum list based on basically a summary list.

Re Point #3: I agree, I felt that voting based on that list didn't make sense to me.

My re-read has not changed my opinion to be honest, though a lot of it is because the three of us did not have that much content later in the game; most of it was generated by SDK and Sabrar. And I think the way Sabrar was pushing on Madge during the game is less likely to be bussing. Therefore I do think moody and sabrar were the scum team.

Madge - I think it's pretty much up to you. Moody is basically going to vote me, and I'm going to vote him.

I mean honestly in a regular game I'd be almost confirmed town at this point. I was clearly on around deadline and could've posted a minute before and voted the other way.
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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby moody7277 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:57 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Madge - I think it's pretty much up to you. Moody is basically going to vote me, and I'm going to vote him.


Pretty much agree with this, so whatever protestations you have about it, you're the Kingmaker Madge.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby Madge » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:10 pm UTC

Well, let's get this over with

vote: moody

main reason: scum!dim had the option to lynch town at deadline and didn't, moody also had tie-causing powers but wasn't definitively online at deadline to use them

major reason: town!SDK says he was 100% sure dim was town

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Re: FAC668 - Day Four

Postby dimochka » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:27 am UTC

vote moody

yes, i am town.
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby mpolo » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:22 am UTC

Furtive glances went from one to another. Who was the traitor in their midst? The expert on aboriginal cave paintings was soon eliminated as a possibility. After the debacle with the paleontologist, all were satisfied of her good will. So it came down to the monkey or the man with the blue hat. After some discussion, the monkey and the archeologist had united. The man with the blue hat it was. Since they knew that it wasn't a police cap, they felt quite good about this. And indeed, the last words heard from moody's lips as he stood on the block were "I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse…"

moody7277 is dead. He was a Mafia Goon. Town wins!
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:35 am UTC

Congrats to Town! Sad to see that my first scum win is still eluding me. Next time, Gadget, next time!

SDK-dimochka town-team seemed unbreakable, I was hoping to convince one of them to vote for Madge D3 (or vice versa as Madge seemed to be going after dimochka).

Thank you mpolo for modding!
Thanks to SDK, matt and dimochka for the end of D2, best fun I've ever had playing this game!

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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Madge » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:44 am UTC

mpolo wrote:The expert on aboriginal cave paintings…


:lol: That's not what my avatar is, but an entertaining guess nonetheless!

Thankyou dim for having such an ironclad alibi and SDK for coming down on dim's side! I couldn't have done it without you two.
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby adnapemit » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:50 am UTC

YAY! Madge and dimochka you are both awesome!
Also good game everyone!
Thank you mpolo for modding!
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby moody7277 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:19 pm UTC

Now that it's official, you can get the rest of the story re the end of D3 and on. Sabrar and I actually had a contingency plan for what happened, which was that I should have been voting SDK at that point and by the tiebreaker rules we would have won. But, the deadlines have been at 1am in my time zone, and I was in bed reading by 1030pm. I had been burnt a couple of times by trying last minute vote rigging to win, and dimochka has already bragged how he was on and available for last minute deliberations. So I cut my losses and we move on to N3. I have the following reasoning:

Madge had already stated a possibility of voting dimochka, so she lives
dimochka has been very heavy against me, and his death and flip gives him credibility, so he lives
SDK is suspicious, but more importantly he's already seen me at 3-player LYLO, so he dies.
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Carlington » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:13 pm UTC

You'll all probably see this in Gojoe, but there was a bit of wondering why I never claimed.

I plain forgot. :oops:

I thought I had claimed, and nobody had reacted, so I pretty much resigned myself to the lynch. Maybe if I hadn't I would've noticed my not having claimed. Sorry for playing that so poorly.

Good game to everyone, and well done fellow town! Well done as well to the Mafia, who seemed very solid and unlikely to be found out until they were.
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Sabrar » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm UTC

We had no Roleblocker. If you claim adnapemit will most probably protect you, we simply must try to kill you N1 and game is basically over as Follow the Cop gets played for at least another day. :D

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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby dimochka » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:23 pm UTC

I'll be perfectly honest - had I not put a lot of faith into Madge's meta, I would have voted for her. It's possible that I could've been convinced to vote for her on that last day, but who knows.

If I ever play a game where both sabrar and sdk are scum, I may as well just give up :) the amount of content and conversation those two have is incredible. I simply do not have that much time (but i'm also in the middle of interviews, so that could be to blame as well).

Sabrar - that suggestion you brought up in D1 that I latched onto - was I at all right that it didn't really matter? Or was that my imagination?
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:45 pm UTC

Are you referring to the unlikely scenario I brought up? When it comes to strategic advice I usually give them with any alignment. If you're interested you can look up my opening post in the Alternating 9P game. Due to the fact that we knew the setup there well before game-start, I've written it before I received my role-pm, thinking I'd be town and when I turned out to be scum I posted it anyway. To be honest in these very open setups these strategies do not offer that much advantage in either direction so I can freely engage in discussion even as scum as well while not having to lie/misdirect. So yes, the scenario was very unlikely but I think I would have mentioned it as town as well.

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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Madge » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:22 am UTC

dimochka wrote:I'll be perfectly honest - had I not put a lot of faith into Madge's meta, I would have voted for her. It's possible that I could've been convinced to vote for her on that last day, but who knows.


I gotta say that meta of mine is probably a reason I can pull off some fun things when I'm scum, but I'm glad it didn't lead to a town loss. I like having dead townies to trust/blame if necessary.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm being a bad person by playing mafia if I don't enjoy the "combing peoples' posts for scumslips" part of the game that seems to be the majority as much as some other people obviously do (looking at SDK and Sabrar as you said). I wonder if I'm making games worse by not participating the "right" way. But I like the logic puzzle parts, and I love figuring out ways to make it all make sense as scum, and I'm having fun, and hopefully it's just social anxiety that has me worried that people think I'm ruining the fun, and if that was really the case hopefully someone would tell me that maybe I should play somewhere else.
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:05 pm UTC

Thanks a lot to SDK for standing in for me. I've been up and down a bit and I'm still not fully recovered. Although I must admit I was playing pretty terribly even before I got ill - I'm glad he turned it around!
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby bessie » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:48 am UTC

Madge wrote:Sometimes I wonder if I'm being a bad person by playing mafia if I don't enjoy the "combing peoples' posts for scumslips" part of the game that seems to be the majority as much as some other people obviously do (looking at SDK and Sabrar as you said). I wonder if I'm making games worse by not participating the "right" way. But I like the logic puzzle parts, and I love figuring out ways to make it all make sense as scum, and I'm having fun, and hopefully it's just social anxiety that has me worried that people think I'm ruining the fun, and if that was really the case hopefully someone would tell me that maybe I should play somewhere else.

If you're having fun, then don't change. I enjoy very much playing with you. Different playing styles keep the game interesting. It might be dull if we all played the same way.

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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby SDK » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:50 am UTC

Good game, folks. Thanks to Madge and dimochka for making the right choice in the end! Good work!

Madge, you're fun to play with. The only thing I'd ask is that you post more. As long as people do that, they can play however they want to as far as I'm concerned.

It was good to play with you guys again. I'll try to join another game again soon!
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Re: FAC668 - Game Over

Postby Madge » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:56 am UTC

New habit in habitica.... post in a mafia game???

Prediction: productivity in mafia skyrockets. Productivity at the office plummets. Nobody notices either.
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