FAC668 - Game Over

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Carlington
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Carlington » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:04 am UTC

I think Doctor should claim:
- If facing a wagon which doesn't look like dying on its own
- If it can prevent a mislynch at LYLO/MYLO
- If a player has been successfully saved and is now facing mislynch, but the doctor should wait for a cop claim first
- If claiming gives us a majority of confirmed town, or if claiming puts us one short of a majority of confirmed town and there's sufficient reason to believe that the one remaining confirmed town will be revealed before day's end, or better.

I think Cop should claim:
- If they have enough town results to put us one player short of a confirmed town majority, or better
- If it can prevent a mislynch (including their own)
- If the doctor has just claimed with enough information to give us a confirmed town majority or better.

Edge cases:
If the cop claims to prevent a mislynch, they should not claim any other results unless at LYLO/MYLO when there's not much to lose anyway, or unless it puts town in a winning position. Excepting LYLO/MYLO or winning town opportunities, any doctor should then keep schtum and protect the cop, so we can play follow the cop and win.


Ninja'd by dimochka:
I'll need to go and think about what the PRs should do regarding claiming being RBed. I hadn't considered that yet. Oh, and moody was already voting me, by the by. Just so you know, you know?
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dimochka
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby dimochka » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:08 am UTC

I completely missed that, and apparently that should have been moody.

Unvote
Vote moody
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Madge
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Madge » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:10 am UTC

I think a cop/doc claiming to be roleblocked is very bad. Scum will then know the roleblocking is working and keep doing it.

We actually don't care whether there's a roleblocker, except insomuch as they stop the doctor/cop from doing their jobs. There's no way to detect a roleblocker that doesn't also work on any other scummer. And we're sitting here knowing we could well have neither town PR anyway.

So yeah, stating you're roleblocked is about the worst thing you can do regardless of the time in the game. It does nothing at all for town and helps scum.

The only time it should be mentioned is if the cop/doc claims for some other reason and is listing their targets/results.

ninja: Carlington's list looks good. I think if cop claims they should claim everything though, either the cop and all future investigations die or one of the confirmed townies dies, and I think the former case is preferable to scum, so best the cop's knowledge doesn't die with him/her

that reminds me: I think we should all post "if I was the cop I investigated NAME and got town" at the beginning of every day. Claim a fake investigation on whoever you want, but remember that if you say, get a fake town result on me, but think I'm scummy and try to get me lynched, scum will know that you're not the real cop so they'll be able to eliminate you as a cop candidate, so it might give scum too much information to be a good idea now I think about it?
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby moody7277 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:24 am UTC

Madge wrote:I think a cop/doc claiming to be roleblocked is very bad. Scum will then know the roleblocking is working and keep doing it.


*big red X goes here*

dimochka wrote:Unvote
Vote moody


Yay, I'm winning!

Carlington's list looks pretty exhaustive. Most cases likely won't come up before D3, which would look to be judgment day unless scum are taken out first. Pkoing having achieved its goal:

Unvote
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matt96
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby matt96 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:05 am UTC

Madge wrote:that reminds me: I think we should all post "if I was the cop I investigated NAME and got town" at the beginning of every day. Claim a fake investigation on whoever you want, but remember that if you say, get a fake town result on me, but think I'm scummy and try to get me lynched, scum will know that you're not the real cop so they'll be able to eliminate you as a cop candidate, so it might give scum too much information to be a good idea now I think about it?

I considered that, but that would help scum if the RB the cop by forcing the cop to pick between lying and letting them know their role block was successful, although that only really matters in 2/8 possible setups.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Madge » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:14 am UTC

I was thinking that, but generally it's accepted that the cop lie and say they investigated the dead person in that case, though it would be a bit of a giveaway to scum if the person they targeted just happened to claim to have investigated the dead person on the night they were targeted... maybe have people flip a coin and 50/50 claim to have got an innocent on the dead person / other player ?
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby matt96 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:35 am UTC

Yes, but then in addition to anyone who fakes a town result on scum being ruled out as a cop, people who claim to have copped the night kill when not RB'd are likely not the cop, as good cop targets are scummy, but good NK targets are typically the more townie players.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:01 am UTC

Madge wrote:So yeah, stating you're roleblocked is about the worst thing you can do regardless of the time in the game. It does nothing at all for town and helps scum.

Fully agree on this.

IIWAC is hard to do effectively, for anyone to provide an effective cover for the Cop they have to remain consistent with their actions throughout the day. That is if I say I 'investigated' Madge and got a Town result but then if I later think that Madge is scum and voice my opinion scum will know that I can't be the Cop even if Madge is Town. So currently I don't think it's a good idea.
Cop can leave investigation results in other ways (not cryptography because scum would be looking for it), but simple statements like 'Carlington looks townie to me'. As almost everyone uses phrases like this it won't be out of place and in case Cop dies we can look through his/her earlier posts and find it.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:28 am UTC

Votals (hopefully):

Sabrar (1): Madge
Madge (1): Sabrar
matt96 (1): Carlington
flicky1991 (1): SirGabriel
SirGabriel (1): adnapemit
adnapemit (1): flicky1991
moody7277 (1): dimochka

Not voting: moody7277, matt96.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:48 am UTC

Carlington wrote:If the cop claims to prevent a mislynch, they should not claim any other results unless at LYLO/MYLO when there's not much to lose anyway, or unless it puts town in a winning position.

Could you please elaborate why you think this is a good idea? I completely agree with Madge, it would be terrible if Cop's knowledge dies with him and giving us more confirmed townies has no downside in my mind.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Carlington » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:01 am UTC

Sorry, you're right. I was still half thinking about cases where the doc had claimed, which of course means the doc can't keep quiet and so the plan falls down.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby adnapemit » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:16 am UTC

Unvote

Sabrar wrote:Cop can leave investigation results in other ways (not cryptography because scum would be looking for it), but simple statements like 'Carlington looks townie to me'. As almost everyone uses phrases like this it won't be out of place and in case Cop dies we can look through his/her earlier posts and find it.

This is a better method than everyone fake claiming. If two or more posts from day two onwards hold a pretty strong opinion towards a player then if that poster is revealed as a cop because they have been killed then the information they can provide isn't lost.

@Sabrar: Did you use Madge as an example because it was a reply in this part of your post?
Sabrar wrote:Madge and got a Town result but then if I later think that Madge is scum and voice my opinion scum will know that I can't be the Cop even if Madge is Town. So currently I don't think it's a good idea.

Any reason you picked Carlington to use for your next example?
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:06 pm UTC

Using Madge was deliberate because of our random votes (coming from our history in the previous game). I picked Carlington at random.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:50 pm UTC

I don't think I was thinking it through properly when I said I'm not sure why a doctor would ever claim. Obviously failed kill automatically means the selected person is town because there's only one scum faction, so the doctor has that info to provide at least. (This is what happens when you don't play for so long!)
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:33 am UTC

So this is a bit ridiculous. Where is everyone?

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby dimochka » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:55 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:So this is a bit ridiculous. Where is everyone?

I had an assignment to do as part of an interview for a startup. Finished about 30 minutes ago, and now i have time except I'm falling asleep.

Unvote

I don't think IIWAC is a good idea with a possible roleblocker and such a small game, mostly because I'm worried about the cop getting roleblocked but then posting a made up result that could be wrong and throw us off if he's killed. Low chances, but still. But if someone can explain sound logic that would work, sure. I think the suggestion of strongly voicing your opinion should be a better idea.

I'm exhausted but will hopefully have more ideas tomorrow.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby flicky1991 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:07 am UTC

Oh right, I forgot to:

Unvote
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Carlington » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:10 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:So this is a bit ridiculous. Where is everyone?

Nothing much to respond to, and then I was in bed, and then I was at work.

IIWAC seems flawed, but we need some way to insure against cop results dying with the cop. I like the idea of simple phrases like "X looks townie to me", and I think it would also be prudent to keep an eye open for sudden shifts towards the town end of players' town-scum lists and reads.

I've had more of a think about when the cop should fully claim. Morning of D3, if the cop is alive and has two town results that have not been NKd, they should claim. Following that rule, the worst case scenario is that scum NKs the cop's target each night.

The doctor, I haven't changed my opinion on when they should claim.

Unvote

I haven't seen anything that looks worth analysing yet, so I'll look again later tonight.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:03 am UTC

Carlington wrote:I like the idea of simple phrases like "X looks townie to me", and I think it would also be prudent to keep an eye open for sudden shifts towards the town end of players' town-scum lists and reads.

I'm not sure this is the best idea either, as scum could potentially find the cop through their sudden shift in opinion. Ideally we want something subtle enough that scum can't identify the cop until after the cop is dead. And since I'm not sure we can make a plan subtle enough, it might be better to let the cop's results die (at least if the only result he has is a single confirmed town) than to risk making the cop a target.
The best solution might be to leave it up to the cop whether and how he wants to breadcrumb his town results. Scum should have a harder time finding the cop if they don't know ahead of time exactly how he will act.

Unvote

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:55 pm UTC

Unvote

Carlington wrote:I've had more of a think about when the cop should fully claim. Morning of D3, if the cop is alive and has two town results that have not been NKd, they should claim.
Well, that is kind of obvious. Beginning of D3 we most likely have 5 players alive, Cop + 2 living Townie results means confirmed majority for Town so winning is automatic if only 1 scum remains, while there is no point in waiting another day if both scums are still alive as their identity will be known by process of elimination. Though in that case there will be a counterclaim for sure.
Should we have more than 5 players alive D3 then there is a Doctor for sure, so confirmed majority might still be valid if Doctor + saved target are not both among {Cop + 2 investigated}.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby moody7277 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:07 pm UTC

adnapemit: random vote SirG, against IIWAC, mostly passive analysis-wise. Neutral to slightly townie

Carlington: random vote matt96 (faux-humility), active analysis on when doc and cop should claim most of which looks okay, against IIWAC. Moderately townie

dimochka: random votes Carlington after I had, then switches RV to me, pro counterclaiming, against IIWAC. doubling up the RV I put in the weird category, otherwise I find him neutral

flicky: random vote adnapemit, no active analysis, neutral to slightly scummy

Madge: random vote Sabrar, with some following interaction, active analysis on RBing, IIWAC. Moderately townie

matt96: no random vote, some discussion of scum strategy, otherwise a bit passive. neutral.

Sabrar: random vote dimochka, then Madge, active discussion of scum strategy and claiming, against IIWAC. Moderately townie

SirG: random vote flicky (lurky), some discussion of doc/cop claiming. neutral


Town
Carlington
Sabrar
Madge
adnapemit
dimochka
SirG
matt96
flicky
Scum

Re IIWAC: I've been in a couple of games where I've seen it discussed, but never in one where it's been used, so I have no experience as to its usefulness.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:55 pm UTC

I don't see how you can place adnapemit (whose actual content is mostly just agreeing with other's opinion) above SirGabriel who opened up discussion and has good observations, or above matt who actually engaged in conversations and looks to genuinely try to contribute. Also putting Carlington as the most townie feels really weird to me as he seems to make the same kind of mistakes as he did in Pen Pal where he was scum and as I noted earlier some of his analysis is just blatantly obvious and doesn't look like he put that much effort into thinking it through.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:49 pm UTC

adnapemit: Initially agreed with my initial reaction concerning D2 role reveals. Later agreed with Sabrar's suggestion that cops breadcrumb their results. Nothing original to add to the discussion so far. Slightly scummy.

Carlington: Gave a very detailed analysis of when Doctor and Cop should claim. Slightly townie.

dimochka: Added a few good insights to the discussion. Pointed out that premature planning (e.g. what to do if we lynch the roleblocker and no one dies overnight) can only help scum. Scum would want us to keep making plans they could exploit, so I'm going to call him townie. (Of course, he could just be scum trying to get townie points, but with nothing else to go on I'm going with townie.)

flicky: No content except an initial reaction that the doctor should only claim to prevent his own lynch. The fact that he clearly didn't think through the situation in any depth, together with his lack of any other content, is the scummiest thing I've seen so far.

Madge: Added a few good insights, including possibility of "if I were the cop..." and the advantages and disadvantages of using it. Slightly townie.

matt: Several short posts, all of which contribute to the discussion. Pointed out possibility that scum would withhold their kill. Townie.

moody: Pointed out that doctor should claim to prevent a mislynch. First person to post a reads list, although that list (unsurprisingly given how little content we have so far) is not particularly helpful. Slightly townie.

Sabrar: Far more posts than anyone else, a decent amount of content including statistical analysis. I would say townie, but I believe Sabrar's meta includes a lot of statistical analysis whether he's town or scum, so for now I'll say neutral.


Given that it's almost the weekend and deadline is in the middle of the weekend, I'll say this now: if nothing happens to convince me otherwise, I'm going to vote for flicky.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:35 am UTC

I get why people are looking at me suspiciously but I honestly haven't had a lot to say. I'll try to put something more content-filled up tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby adnapemit » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:15 pm UTC

Now it feels like the game has properly started.

adnapemit: Random voted SirGabriel because couldn't I couldn't vote for flicky. Both posts were mostly agreement on basic game strategy. Not much contribution to discussion but my posts usually lack content and this tends to make me look more scummy. There was also that one question to Sabrar because of his choice of players to use in example. Definitely town.

Carlington: Random vote based on faux-humility for matt96. Clearly list situations when Doctor and cop should claim. Actively seems to be contributing. Neutral.

dimochka: Votes for Carlington giving him a total of 2 votes then corrects to a vote for moody. I agree with the point made that discussing what happens in an unlikely scenario makes people look active and contributing. Neutral or very slightly town.

flicky1991: Voted adnapemit. Not much in his posts. A couple comments about when the doctor should claim. Expect to see more soon. Slightly scummy.

Madge: Voted Sabrar. Contributed to discussion and proposed claiming a fake investigation. Slightly townie.

matt96:Pointed out possible strategy. Quite a few posts. Neutral

moody7277: Voted Carlington. Quite a few posts and first to post player reads. I agree with some but not all of the list. Slightly townie.

Sabrar: Random voted dimochka. Lot's of posts with discussion of claiming. Answered the questioned I asked. He picked Carlington at random but this is a mafia game and very little is random, this might be this might not be. His reaction to moody's listed placements was surprisingly strong. Neutral maybe slightly scummy.

SirGabriel:Voted flicky. Started discussion and posted reads list. I read his reads post twice, once before and once while writing this posts. The first time I found it really suspicious but then after rereading everyone's post I can no longer see why other than the certainty flicky's lack of posts/content is scummy. Neutral.

Town

adnapemit
Madge
moody7277
dimochka
Carlington
matt96
SirGabriel
Sabrar
flicky1991

Scum
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Madge » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:23 pm UTC

unvote

I hate D1, but I should make it so my RV is not still up (that said, *eyes Sabrar suspiciously*)

At this stage I think the bandwagon on flicky is the best we have, though I am sure at least one scummer is going to be among the people making very helpful posts because it's the best place for scum to hide.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:28 am UTC

Was hoping for some players to contribute more, don't know how available I will be today so here it goes:

adnapemit: actual content in first 2 posts is very minor and basically just agreeing with other players' opinion. Includes herself in reads list, stating that this is usual for her. I remember her having more content both in Dollhouse and PyPokemon so this looks wrong to me. Has only neutral or close to neutral reads which could indicate either cautious scum or genuine town who doesn't have strong reads. My read on her at this point is definitely influenced by her reaction to my previous answer so let me ask something in return: what kind of answer were you looking for and could you elaborate on your thoughts besides a cryptic 'might be or might not be' comment?
Leaning slightly scummy but will reevaluate based upon reply.

Carlington: already explained my reservations about his content previously, no post from him since then. If I had to pick one player who only tries to look as though he's contributing then he would be my top choice. Leaning scum.

dimochka: little content, most of it good with only the roleblock-claim being a not-so-great idea. Leaning townie but need more from him.

flicky: definitely the lurkiest, can't judge based on current content.

Madge: liked this this post very much, contains good thinking and advice. Am concerned however about this part:
Madge wrote:At this stage I think the bandwagon on flicky is the best we have, though I am sure at least one scummer is going to be among the people
to me it feels like she already knows that flicky would flip Town. Might be just my imagination though. For now leaning Town but IGMEOY (if only on general principles).

matt: engaged in conversation, looked to genuinely try to think things through. Then disappeared 3 days ago. Leaning slightly townie but needs to post read-list before day-end.

@mpolo: Could we get a mod-prod on matt please?

moody: makes a similar mistake regarding Doctor claim as Carlington, has little content before read list which comes way too early in my opinion. However he did the same thing in Pen Pal, so probably null-tell. Leaning slightly scummy.

SirGabriel: started conversation, had good points. Read list looks genuine. Leaning townie.

Town

SirGabriel
dimochka
matt
Madge
adnapemit
moody
flicky
Carlington

Scum

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby adnapemit » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:01 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I remember her having more content both in Dollhouse and PyPokemon so this looks wrong to me.
I think I might have had more content in PyPokemon but I just remember being called scummy slightly scummy a lot in past games for lack of content. Of course I could be remembering wrong.
what kind of answer were you looking for and could you elaborate on your thoughts besides a cryptic 'might be or might not be' comment?

I was hoping for anything other than it being a random pick. Like maybe you saw something Carlington posted that looked townie or scummy or maybe you though it was the most suitable for use in the example for some other reason. I don't believe in random. Even if you think you picked randomly there's usually something that with make your choice more biased to picking something, like for example Carlington had the previous post and you could see his name in the reply box when writing your post. I couldn't see any immediate reason so I asked if you had a reason to consciously pick Carlington.
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:36 am UTC

That's fair. I don't remember anything conscious about my choice but it could have been influenced by something like that.

With both of my issues dealt with, I'm upgrading my read on adnapemit to neutral. Order is unchanged.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby matt96 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:09 pm UTC

Sorry for lack of content over the past few days, https://imgur.com/QC7aHiF happened to me, and I find it difficult to compose longer posts from my phone, I have a new laptop now and will have my reads up in an hour or so.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:11 pm UTC

Deadline is in under 16 hours. Still waiting for flicky's promised content.

Anyone who hasn't posted a reads list yet, if you have time today, please post one.

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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby moody7277 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:20 pm UTC

Regarding how "early" SirG and Sabrar think my reads post is, I figured we had gotten all the juice we were going to get out of set up discussion and wanted to categorize my thoughts. Standard D1 complaints go here. On the other hand, given that a few other people also decided to post reads list, insofar as we now have a different avenue of information, I say mission accomplished.

Vote: flicky1991
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mpolo
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby mpolo » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:30 pm UTC

Votals:

flicky1991 (1): moody7277
Image <-- Evil experiment

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flicky1991
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:58 pm UTC

The only real reason for my lack of posts is that I've not had any thoughts worth posting. But I totally understand why this makes me look scummy and I'm not going to base my reads on anyone's opinion of me, since even if Mafia are amongst those pushing for my death they're swallowed up by the others who are saying that anyway.

adnapemit - Agreed with SirGabriel about claiming, and not a lot of other content until read list

Sabrar - Plenty of discussion on what should be done in each scenario

Carlington - Plenty of discussion on claiming for both doctor and cop

moody7277 - A little discussion on claiming, first to post read list

SirGabriel - Lots of discussion about claiming including starting the discussion about who should claim when

matt96 - Lots of discussion, little bit of poking Sabrar as to what good scum strategies he thinks exist

dimochka - Raises good points about the claiming discussion being possibly to scum's advantage

Madge - Suggested IIWAC strategy, adivses against claiming you were roleblocked

...Yeah, I think I'm in the "D1 is terrible" crowd. I won't fight too hard against those pushing to lynch me - better to mislynch me than mislynch a power role.

Given that pretty much her only content up till her read list was agreement with someone else and nitpicking at minor things (i.e. who Sabrar used in his examples):

Vote: adnapemit
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SirGabriel
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:09 pm UTC

And I'm not impressed with flicky's reads list, so I guess now is the time for me to

Vote: flicky1991

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matt96
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby matt96 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:14 pm UTC

1.adnapemit
Random Votes, agrees with SirGabriel's inital assessment of when to claim (scum cop result or danger of mislynch) then in the next post unvotes and agrees with Sabrar that a form of breadcrumbing would be better than everyone faking results, is the third one to post reads, nothing really seems original, but nothing feels wrong either, Neutral

2. Sabrar
Very active, appears to mess up a bit with the idea that doctor should claim, but looking back, 4 confirmed town out of 8 in that situation would guarantee a cop result that night leaving 4 confirmed town out of six on a mislynch followed by town cop result, 3 confirmed town 1 confirmed scum on scum result, meaning at the very least, it would be difficult for scum to win, with about 1/2 (1/2 chance of mislynch * 1/3 of getting 4th confirmed town + 1/2 chance of successful lynch * 2/3 chance of getting 4th confirmed town) odds of it being impossible assuming they don't counterclaim to try to prevent it, but the doctor claim part was only a might anyways, calls out Carlington on the cops shouldn't claim all of their results when claiming idea, helps confirm for me that the set-up being unknown makes many strategies a gamble on mpolo having rnged up a specific set-up, warns of difficult of IIWAC, thinks Carlington is similar to another game where he was scum, and has some issues with moody's analysis, I generally like the way he is going about this, relatively strong town read

3. flicky1991
Very inactive here compared to regular Forum Games, not sure if unused to Mafia, no read at all, process of elimination would be more helpful to determine alignment than any posts Flicky has made.

4. Carlington
Between the idea that the cop shouldn't claim all of their results, which I just finally realized would be to stop scum from being able to kill confirmed town in the presence of a doctor to protect the cop, but starts sounding bad again when I see that in the situation he called for the results to be withheld, the cop claimed to prevent a mislynch which would still give scum a confirmed town non cop target (as the doctor would be targeting the cop) making the withheld information pointless, and pinging me super hard is
Carlington wrote: I think it would also be prudent to keep an eye open for sudden shifts towards the town end of players' town-scum lists and reads

The way that it is phrased sounds more to me like scum trying to pick out the cop at the time of the posts rather than sounding like town looking back trying to find results, strongest scum read I have

5. moody7277
First person to post reads, not really getting much, although I'm not sure if there might be some hidden reason for the switch from voting Carlington to putting him as most townie, leaning town, but would look at with suspicion if Carlington turns out to be scum

6. SirGabriel
calls out flicky on lack of activity, gets mod to confirm no self targeting allowed, dislikes the same Carlington statement that pinged me, but just on a strategic level, would like everyone to have a reads list up before the day ends, slight town read

8. dimochka
acknowledges possibility of false-claims and RBs, dislikes IIWAC because of potential RBs, town leaning

9. Madge
Claiming to be RBed is bad, recognizes no powerrole is guaranteed in this setup, brings up IIWAC, but also acknowledges it might be flawed, slightly town

Strong>moderate>slightly>leaning>neutral>nothing as far as strength of reads goes

I'm going to trust my reads and
Vote:Carlington

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matt96
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby matt96 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:16 pm UTC

I'll be back at least 2 hours before deadline in case anyone post something to change my mind.

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SirGabriel
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby SirGabriel » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:31 pm UTC

matt96 wrote:4. Carlington
Between the idea that the cop shouldn't claim all of their results, which I just finally realized would be to stop scum from being able to kill confirmed town in the presence of a doctor to protect the cop, but starts sounding bad again when I see that in the situation he called for the results to be withheld, the cop claimed to prevent a mislynch which would still give scum a confirmed town non cop target (as the doctor would be targeting the cop) making the withheld information pointless, and pinging me super hard is
Carlington wrote: I think it would also be prudent to keep an eye open for sudden shifts towards the town end of players' town-scum lists and reads

The way that it is phrased sounds more to me like scum trying to pick out the cop at the time of the posts rather than sounding like town looking back trying to find results, strongest scum read I have

Matt has some good points, and on rereading Carlington is looking a little scummy. And since all I have against flicky is limited D1 content and less activity here than in forum games, neither of which is against what I know of his meta (although admittedly I know very little about his meta), I think I will

Unvote

Vote: Carlington

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Sabrar
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:25 pm UTC

flicky's list looks terrible, there is no indication what he finds townie/scummy. He was much more active D1 in Pen Pal (though that was a closed setup and there was more to speculate on).
I really don't like leaving lurkers alive but for now I'm going to vote based on actual content rather than lack of thereof.

Vote: Carlington

I should be awake before the deadline.

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flicky1991
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Re: FAC668 - Day One

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:26 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:flicky's list looks terrible, there is no indication what he finds townie/scummy.
That's because I don't know who I found townie or scummy. :P
I was just trying to put together what I could notice about each person, and adnapemit ended up being the only player where something stood out, to me anyway.
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