MMM II - Day 3: The Massacre at Munroe High

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Sabrar
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:53 pm UTC

I'm against it. I also think that generalz is scum in some way however we cannot afford a mislynch on the sheer possibility that he's an SK specifically. Gopher of Pern is a safe lynch for reasons you mentioned, D3 we should have more material available to make an informed decision.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby moody7277 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:09 pm UTC

I'm confident with the plan as stated, and perfectly certain you won't need your contingency. Also, generalz is looking better and better for D3's lynch.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:54 pm UTC

I agree with the plan for D2 but obviously not for D3 :)

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:04 pm UTC

EBWOP: If there is a way I can prove that:
1. I cannot be tracked
2. My actions are harmless:
- I will publicly announce my target
- Sabrar can watch my target tonight
- My target can accept the note
This way, you will see that noone dies (unless Mafia or SK gets in the middle of the way) and that indeed, Sabrar didn't see anything.
What do you think?

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:08 pm UTC

generalz wrote:1. I cannot be tracked
Do you mean tracked or watched? The two are not the same thing.

Also, why wouldn't whoever killed Matt just kill who you targeted? We'd then be in exactly the same situation as today (assuming that their invisibility wasn't any different from the previous night). Similarly, they could kill Sabrar, which means that we can't tell who he saw.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:20 pm UTC

Watched, sorry. Didn't know it was 2 different things.
I'm open to other ideas.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:05 pm UTC

I'm always very deliberate with my wording, I never claimed to be a standard Watcher. Please do not make plans based upon that.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby dimochka » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:44 pm UTC

sorry, back and re-reading now. post shortly.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:01 pm UTC

@Sabrar: after re-read, you said you were Watcher N1. So, are you something else for N2 or was it a one shot thing?

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:50 pm UTC

Znirk wrote:I do now have a hypothesis on what [Madge] may have meant [by accusing me of coaching a buddy], but probably shouldn't go into detail before we get more information about anonymous notes out in the open.

Stumbled across that on rereading, and it's moot now. My assumption at the time was that the people who can send anonymous notes write the content of the note themselves.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:52 pm UTC

I've been thinking about what happened near Matt last night. I see the following possibilities:

1. Sabrar watched Matt. Invisible Generalz killed Matt.
2. Sabrar watched Matt. Invisible Generalz did something non-killy, and another invisible person killed Matt.
3. Sabrar was redirected/confundused/subtly blocked (he did accept a note). We do not know who happened to Matt.
4. Sabrar chose the RPG aficionado archetype, and the mods roll a die to see whether his ability succeeds.
5. Sabrar killed Matt.
6. Sabrar and Generalz are scummates.

4 is ... I'm not really serious about that one, OK? And I think we can eliminate 5, based on Sabrar's early-day post about a frustrating result with a ninja breadcrumb. Also, why would he claim not to have seen Generalz, when he claimed watcher only after Generalz had claimed targeting Matt, but before he had claimed invisibility? Finally, scenario 6 while technically possible doesn't seem very plausible, given the way Sabrar went after anonymous-note-claims and kept prodding Generalz. Maybe they are both excellent actors, but this seemed pretty genuine to me.

Option 2 is also possible, I guess, but I'm on Jimbob's side here: Two night-invisible characters are a bit much (I'm assuming this game doesn't primarily exist to frustrate Sabrar).

This leaves only 3 as a Generalz-may-not-be-a-killer option: Sabrar was not actually watching who he thought he was watching, and Generalz did something to Matt that didn't kill him, but didn't save him either.

But I'd like to point to one detail I noticed on my recent reread: According to note-related claims Generalz is the only person to decline a note during night 1, when he only knew for certain about Matt's and his own note-passing abilities (and when he didn't yet know that, as Mpolo and Sabrar have claimed since, cop and watcher don't need their target's permission). This is faaaar from conclusive, but it does somewhat point towards Generalz' own power being damaging to the target. I suspect that he knew very well that accepting a note could be dangerous.

In conclusion, I still want to know from Generalz what he was up to with Matt last night. Unless there is a very good pro-town reason for visiting the claimed doctor forthcoming, I prefer lynching the highly-likely scum and possible SK Generalz first, and doing Gopher tomorrow; because (assuming we trust Mpolo, and assuming there isn't a single-member Mafia) we know for certain that lynching Gopher will not reduce the nightkill density.

Pre-post-edit: I still have trouble with the idea of a Mafia that has to send a note to kill their target. Generalz claims sending a note to Matt. What do we think about a serial killer who can only kill someone who agrees to meet him? I find that somewhat dubious as well, but would invite opinions. If the more experienced players see the SK-by-appointment as more likely than a note-passing Mafia, then that means that either scum:Generalz lied about sending a note, or IF scum THEN serial killer.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby mpolo » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:10 pm UTC

I haven't posted a lot in the last day or two, having really said my piece for today. I think that lynching the certain mafia is probably a better move than hoping we can eliminate a (currently hypotetical) serial killer by leaving the mafia full strength for another day. The sentiment is good, but until we know what we're facing, it seems like a huge risk.

That said, I would not be surprised if there were a serial killer out there.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:43 pm UTC

generalz wrote:So, are you something else for N2 or was it a one shot thing?

That is exactly what I don't plan on revealing just yet and double FoS for role-fishing.

@dimochka: how is that re-read going?

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:52 pm UTC

Crazy thought: if we have Town-aligned Vigilante (that does not require a note) he could claim it, we lynch generalz, Vig kills Gopher of Pern. That takes care of potential SK and confirmed scum still dies. Huge problem if scum has roleblock/redirection but Vig should decline all notes to reduce the chances of it happening.
What do you think?

BTW good observation from Znirk about why generalz might have declined the note.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:02 pm UTC

Alright, I guess this is time for me to come clean then. Feel free to lynch me after that if you don't believe me, since I am pretty sure I can no longer achieve my winning condition.

My stereotype is the shy guy, and I am independent. I win if 4 (or more) different people accept my invites throughout the game (people accepting to have a quick chat with me will make me feel more self-confident). I assumed (flavor-wise) I would get additional powers the more confident I get, but it seems I did not.
At first I thought it wouldn't be too hard but now people will be scared of accepting invites... Of course, the more nights there are, the more chances I have to achieve my wincon.

I targetted Matt last night because I thought he will not make it through the night and I was right. Sad thing is, people will start to be suspicious if I claimed I targetted the "obvious" person.

I did not accept the note for 2 reasons:
- The location (boys bathroom) did not sound good
- I knew at least 2 people (matt and I) had a role based on notes, so I assumed there were probably many other roles with notes, some with a good effect, some with a bad effect. So the odds were not in my favor (I don't see why matt would target me), thus the declining of notes.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:12 pm UTC

One thing is for sure: if generalz speaks the truth then we cannot have an SK. This is based on multiple, independent pieces of math (and assumptions of a balanced game).

Therefore killing him means we definitely will have only one NK during the night (unless we have Vig). However, if he speaks the truth then he would be our second mislynch and we'd be in a much worse position than before.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:18 pm UTC

generalz wrote:I will do a full claim if necessary (which would defeat the purpose of my role)


How does your claim defeat the purpose of your role?

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:34 pm UTC

Simply because I was supposed to do it quietly (like a ghost). Now, noone will accept notes and I have no way to win.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:59 pm UTC

Additional thought: even if generalz is telling the truth he is basically anti-town, as he needs the game not end before N4, requiring at least 2 mislynches.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:17 pm UTC

I'm seeing some level of contradiction from Generalz. "No-one will accept notes" is not exactly a consequence of his claim. Au contraire in fact: if his claim is true, then as far as we know nobody got killed as a consequence of accepting a note.

But, to reiterate, I'm fine with lynching Gopher first. It's not my first choice, but I don't really oppose that lynch.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Madge » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:46 pm UTC

I've got an exam tomorrow so my contributions will be brief.

@sabrar: why does generalz require two more mislynches? I assume we have at least 2 scum, so we get to D3 without mislynches, and as much as I would like for us to believe in ourselves I think we're probably going to either get another mislynch or there's actually another anti-town player who needs to be ridded, so that gets us to D4 no problem.

That said, generalz seems suspicious just because his claim is very similar to mine (I win if town wins and one person accepts my note; he wins if 4 people accept his notes).

If we want to go down the road of testing generalz (it looks like we don't, but for completeness), I am happy to volunteer to be his target. As VT I am most expendable, and to be honest I'd quite like to die because I'm worried my win condition might change, but I obviously don't want to waste a town killing power on it, so scum killing me would be ideal from that point of view.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:50 pm UTC

Madge wrote:that gets us to D4 no problem.

Well, according to his claim Generalz needs four nights, so it's D5 we're looking at.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:02 am UTC

hmm, good point. Probabilities are more aligned with generalz being scum then because D5 is quite late.

Either way, would rather lynch GoP and have vig (if we have one) take out generalz for us. Otherwise generalz looks like a good candidate tomorrow - maybe even if mpolo comes up with a town result.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:11 am UTC

Madge wrote:@sabrar: why does generalz require two more mislynches?
I did not use the word 'more', I meant 2 in total.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby bessie » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:40 am UTC

Votals:

generalz (1) : Gopher of Pern
Gopher of Pern (3) : mpolo, moody7277, generalz


Not Voting (6) : Carlington, dimochka, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, Sabrar, Znirk

Deadline: Friday, November 11, 11:59:59 PM EST

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:52 am UTC

I may be overanalysing the flavour, but matt's death doesn't exactly feel like a mafia kill, since such kills I would associate as "clean" kills. That would suggest an SK killed Matt, so one more piece of evidence against him, although it's hardly a strong piece. Either way, I'm happy with either of our lynch candidates.

I was also thinking about whether generalz's claim is believable, from a game balance point of view. In order for him to win, he needs to survive to and the game needs to last until N4. In a 12 player game with a single lynch and kill per day/night cycle, there will be 5 alive by N4, so it's certainly possible. A single refusal though pushes it out to N5 and 3 alive, including himself. It could easily be possible that by this point he can't win because the other two alive have accepted his notes. Furthermore, this assumes only 1 night kill per night, which I expect to be too few overall. A single additional kill would make it impossible for the game to last to N5, assuming the game ends once town or scum are eliminated.

Assuming a 3 mafia game, and again only 1 night kill, as pointed out by Sabrar there would have to be at least 2 mislynches (including indie lynches) to make sure it lasts to N4. In addition, if town mislynched 3 times, by D4 there would be 3 scum and 3 others. I don't know if the game would end there and then, but if it did, generalz couldn’t win, having only had 3 nights, so generalz has an extremely fine line to walk.

In summary, I think it is possible for generalz's claimed role to exist, especially given Madge's claim, but I put it marginally more likely that he is lying in some form or other.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:24 am UTC

Nothing new from me, except that I guess it's time to walk the walk:

vote Generalz

I will of course switch my vote to Gopher if we're anywhere near a tie when the deadline looms. Conveniently, Gopher himself is already voting for Generalz, so he has limited opportunities to mess with the total in his own favour.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:39 am UTC

@Madge: alright, I will target you tonight and we will see what happens.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 am UTC

generalz wrote:@Madge: alright, I will target you tonight and we will see what happens.


Cool. I will accept your note. Do you have any clues about what sort of thing it will say? (e.g. what room it might make me go to). Just in case scum decides to send me a bad!note, it would be useful to be able to tell yours apart. (if I receive multiple notes, I will accept only Generalz's if I have good reason to believe it's from him based on his info; if I can't determine which note is from him, I'll accept all notes)
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby generalz » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:39 am UTC

Nope, I guess it's up to the mods to choose the location. If you receive several notes you won't know which one is mine...

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby mpolo » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:46 pm UTC

generalz's claimed win-con seems so much harder than Madge's, which makes me wonder if one of the two is hiding a detail or two. Getting one person to accept would be relatively "easy" on day 1 (though it didn't work). Getting four to accept in the course of the game with a group this small seems well nigh on impossible.
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:38 pm UTC

Upon further thought, given the number of note-giving abilities, the number of players and so forth, I think generalz's claimed role only works if he would be able to verify (by location or other flavor-text) that he is the one sending a specific note so that the recipient would be willing to accept it.
Together with other little things already pointed out I simply cannot see a scenario where generalz is not lying.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby dimochka » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:40 pm UTC

Sorry, election got me distracted. Anyways, I can post my wall of text in a spoiler same as last time if anyone wants to see it. Otherwise here are my main thoughts:

1. Sounds like Carlington sent note to me. Clearly I'm still alive, so I feel comfortable putting him in the townie group for now, unless he's some kind of poisoner. Unlikely. @Sabrar - there was no follow up, I got nothing else once I accepted. Also important to note that the PMs specifically state that the flavor is just that - flavor. BUT I'm sure DJ's flavor will help guide us along.
2. GoP - I actually found him scummy when he blamed sabrar for not thinking of more possible notes, because I think that's a stretch. On board with his lynch today (and nothing changed further in the thread)
3. I literally cannot see a situation in which generalz isn't lying. AT BEST he's an independent survivor who is not exactly aligned with anyone. That, along with targeting matt, makes him likely to be our SK or antitown role (unless - can he actually still be mafia and lying for some reason?)
4. There were a few times in the thread where I felt madge could be a mafia supporter looking for her team. That hasn't really changed.
5. Mpolo / moody sound genuine. that's really all there is to it
6. sabrar - on the townie side, although i feel like i've seen a bit of rolefishing (i'm nitpicking here, mostly because based on what I would expect alignment distribution to look like, a least one of sabrar/jimbob/znirk is likely antitown as well). jimbob seems more townie than others - i think i just agree with almost everything. znirk - i agree with his logic on lynching generalz vs. gop, but think gop is a better bet at this point. although i can't see generalz being be a mislynch, just maybe not specifically scum.

Has anyone kept track of votes? I'm more than happy to vote GoP but don't want to put him too close to avoid ending discussion.

Actually here's my wall of text for those who want to peruse:
Spoiler:
sabrar - useless night report
znirk - surprised at adnap flip. looking for watcher to report on matt (slightly rolefishing but logical), asks mpolo to revisit hypothetical breakdown
madge - watching znirk for "watcher" comment. nothing to report.
sabrar - cop should wait on claiming anything
jimbob - targeted by someone. thinks Adnap's target (for bodyguard) was znirk or moody
mpolo - holding off important info
moody - assumes doctor was unable to protect self, and sk held back kill (what? i think that's a stretch, we don't know that we have an sk.. could be recruiting or something else. igmeoy)
madge - misunderstood mpolo about holding off info for 1-2 RL days vs game days
generalz - corrects madge, targeted by note but declined. assumes there are several roles based on notes (the only way he'd make that stretch is by having a note power as well... yes it's unlikely that matt targeted him but not out of the question)
mpolo - already made arrangements for info to come out (more likely some kind of chat, less likely info revealed post death)
znirk - noticed mpolo basically claimed chat power
sabrar - noticed generalz's claim. thinks madge/mpolo discussion is genuine, ie not related to each other
jimbob - asks generalz if location was specified [pms specifically said location was for flavo purposes, BUT they'll help confirm the note]
znirk - ask jimbob about why he cares about location / note details
sabrar - wants everyone to claim note info
znirk - can send note, but did not last night. didn't receive either
madge - sent note last night, probably won't need to again, unless powers change (supposedly she's not aware of them planning to change)
jimbob - unable to send notes. wants to know more info on notes (could be both townie and not)
madge - her notes help her and not target when accepted, nothing when rejected. last night note got accepted so she's good (could technically be a mafia supporter trying to find team)
GoP - thinks jimbob is fishing. cant send / didnt receive notes. suspicious of sabrar too for lack of content. somehow thinks we could assume from matt's reveal about notes that more notes could be sent (i think it's a stretch. actually that's just scummy)
madge - sabrar townie for more chatting, znirk scummy for "coaching buddy" (doesn't make sense would do via pm), jimbob townie reactions, mpolo - town/neutal/scum (haha) for withholding info, moody scummy, generaliz slightly townie for bringing up anon notes. znirk scummiest with moody 2nd
carlington - not necessarily obvious to nk matt, he looked scummy (i think what he's saying is scum could've set him up to fail somehow - i can kinda see it). has power to send note, used last night, accepted, doesn't know what note looks like
sabrar - didn't know about other notes (good point) and some of those could belong to town. points out to madge that znirk wouldn't coach buddy in open
znirk - not sure if good idea to outright reject all roles (we need investigations, ESPECIALLY to confirm town). also confused about madge
madge - thinks traitors could be possible, or scum without daychat etc (sounds more and more like she's one of them)
generalz - has ability to send notes. thought when jimbob said he was targeted that he also got a note.
mpolo - knows someone else is town, exchanged notes, also knows gop is scum. only has cop power, nothign else (so presumably other person is the one who created chat)
moody - lynch gop, see if he flips scum, otherwise lynch mpolo next
madge - received no notes. willing to trust cop but suspicious (i disagree)
znirk - power is one shot, not used up if fails. suspicious of mpolo knowing other person is outright town.
generalz - location of rejected note was boys bathroom. sent invite and was accepted.
znirk - mods write notes, he only decides target
mpolo - now in mason group with open chat.
dim - claimed my note last night (+location = stairwell) and my ability to send
jimbob - location is chem lab. thinks matt accepted a note bc he was found in another room. but could be wrong, as sk maybe took out matt while he saved someone from mafia.
madge - power is infinite, but only needed to be successful once. no locaion specified.
carlington - claimed that target accepted / location matches (so it was basically me or jimbob)
gop - doesn't get the mpolo reveal (from his point of view, obviously), votes sabrar
moody - confirmed he's masons with mpolo, and theirs are walkies, not notes
sabrar - various questions to ppl
znirk - some responses (mostly looks like he didn't read carefully, especially about larger mason group)
sabrar - was invited to band room ,and matt was band member, so thinks this relates (i can see logic). responds to znirk's mason question
mpolo - gop is specifically mafia
carlington - inconsisent with saying he cant confirm anything yet can confirm location
generalz - did not send note to jimbob. response for carl.
sabrar - someone is lying.
jimbob - moody/mpolo most likely truthful, but team could be moody/mpolo/gop and they're sacrificing one person to make themselves appear townie (unlikely but maybe). some analysis about gop more likely scum based on voting patterns (didnt fully get it, will re read)
madge - sent invite to sabrar
[i need to claim if there was any follow up to note - there wasn't]
carlington - confirmed sending note to me
sabrar - catching generalz in inconsistency
carlington - another theory for generalz
madge - claims "horny virgin"
carlington - thinks we should vote gop
madge - agrees
sabrar - agrees, and more note analysis
generalz - did target matt
sabrar - watched matt, no one visited him. so either sabrar was roleblocked or znirk is mafia ninja
generalz - a ghost, so he cant be watched/tracked
gop - votes generalz
jimbob - no other flavor to note
sabrar - thinks generalzs power is scummy
znirk - no one claimed otherwise so mpolo likely cop, gop likely mafia. should eliminate generalz first because that takes out an extra kill if he's sk.
sabrar - disagrees, doesn't want to guess
moody - votes gop
generalz - votes gop. offers to be watched to show he's not harmful
jimbob - why wouldnt the killer just kill same target to frame him
sabrar - not standard watcher
znirk - generalz only person to reject note, ie more likely to know that notes could be damaging
mpolo - prefers gop lynch over hypothetical.sk.generalz
sabrar - not planning to reveal how his power works. if we have vig, should take out generalz
generalz - claims shy guy, needs 4 ppl to accept notes. thought matt wouldn't target him ie it's someone else, and could be harmful.
sabrar - if generalz is truthful, we don't have sk. but likely antitown (makes sense)
znirk - doesn't see how generalz's claim defeats role purpose
generalz - says he was supposed to do it quietly (that doesn't make any sense, there is no restriction from claiming so it would've been perfectly fine. sounds like a lie)
madge - generalz is suspicious because similar role to madges
znirk - generalz scummy because 4 acceptances = survive to D5, meaning quite a few mislynches
madge - on board with gop lynch now.
jimbob - thinks matt's deathsounds like sk, math analysis sounds very unlikely / anti town
znirk - votes generalz
generalz - will target madge
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:45 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Also important to note that the PMs specifically state that the flavor is just that - flavor.
The way I interpreted that part of the note was that only the time given was for flavor purposes, so as you don't need to give an immediate reply. Obviously it could be that the location is also just flavour, but the one I was given matched the only claim so far perfectly so I made that connection.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:54 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Has anyone kept track of votes? I'm more than happy to vote GoP but don't want to put him too close to avoid ending discussion.
It's 6 to hammer, Gopher of Pern has 3 votes, generalz has 2.

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Sabrar
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:04 am UTC

dimochka wrote:Also important to note that the PMs specifically state that the flavor is just that - flavor.
Something kept nagging me, finally figured out what. If locations are just for flavor and random and change from night-to-night then introducing a location that can be clearly tied to a claimed (and true) archetype is in my opinion a direct mod-intervention to mislead/confuse the players.
Therefore I think that locations have meaning. I may be seeing too much into this however.

On another note Gopher of Pern seems to have given up which is more indicative of scum then falsely accused town.

Also puppies.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Znirk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:44 am UTC

Highly speculative role speculation: With this game setup, there really ought to be a "postmaster" role who gets some information about the anonymous notes that are being passed back and forth.

generalz wrote:@Madge: alright, I will target you tonight and we will see what happens.


Madge wrote:Cool. I will accept your note.


What are we hoping to learn from this experiment? What would be the outcome that makes generalz look better than he does now?

If generalz does last until night 2, I would ask all other players with secret-note abilities to not target Madge tonight (remember that according to claims so far, our investigating roles don't need permission-by-note to get to work on someone). If we agree to that, and Madge survives the night, and she reports receiving zero notes or more than one, we have evidence of unexpected dodginess (0 means redirection or Generalz lying about targeting her; 2 means there's Naughty People with secret note capabilities apart from Generalz.)

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:50 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Also puppies.
Puppies! I agree with Sabrar, in that I read the time only being for flavour, but I have nothing to back it up particularly. I suspect things tonight might become a little clearer on that front.

I planned on doing a reread and a reads post last night based on the day's events. Unfortunately, I got back later than planned on was too tired. Here's the short and sweet version without really looking back at all, ordered roughly towniest to scummiest:

Town
Mpolo, moody - mutually confirmed mason claim, combined with mpolo's claimed scum result*
Znirk - generally feels like the towniest person in terms of post content
Sabrar - fairly typical Sabrar. Trying to be helpful and get discussion going. Not pinging me the way scum!Sabrar usually does.
Dimochka - quiet but does seem to be trying when he does post.
Madge - as pointed out by mpolo, her role is great early on, but the win condition seems too easy. If generalz flips mafia, I think there's a good chance she is a team-mate, because of her willingness to accept a potential SK's note. Hardly conclusive though.
Carlington - has gone very quiet and can't remember what he's contributed today.
Generalz - claimed to visit killed player whilst being invisible. Claimed a role that sounds very hard to win with.
Gopher of Pern - likely mason has scum result on him. Hasn't really tried to scum hunt since then either, nor actively looked for much possibility as to why mpolo's result is wrong.
Scum

*I think there is a very small chance that there's something fishy going on with mpolo and moody, but I think scum would be unlikely to draw attention to themselves in this way.

Unrelated to anything - I fully expect at least one scum to have a message passing power, as otherwise it would be a simple case of always accept notes and all message passers are confirmed town.

@Gopher of Pern - are you going to full claim, given you are most likely going to be lynched.

I'm phone posting so can't easily check but:
Is Carlington due a modprod?

A question for those who have claimed their action from last night, (not those who sent a note but haven't said what it did): Why did you target who you said you did?
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

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Sabrar
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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Sabrar » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:04 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:A question for those who have claimed their action from last night, (not those who sent a note but haven't said what it did): Why did you target who you said you did?

Watching claimed Doc seemed like best idea (as Znirk also mentioned), please clarify if you need a longer explanation.

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Re: MMM II - Day 2: The Lobotomy in the Biology Lab

Postby Madge » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:26 am UTC

My win condition too easy? My win condition is by definition harder than the town win condition (have one note accepted, then I win iff town wins). If your win condition is harder than that, well, FoS on you, jimbob.

I'm willing to accept generalz's note because I'm effectively VT, so if it does something nasty then I'm the best person to receive it (apart from a rival scum faction of course).
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