MMM II - Day 3: The Massacre at Munroe High

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matt96
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:24 pm UTC

I am here, have been re-reading quite a bit looking for anything that doesn't quite seem right. I was hoping to find a bit more before making this post, but I took so long my Laptop's battery died. Most recently, I found it odd that adnapemit's claim would be so vague if adnapemit was going to claim at all, unless she wanted the extension , the length of which was not clarified until after the claim. There are also a few statements moody made earlier that seem a bit strange to me, namely the question for myself and generalz regarding power spec compared to "scummy looking role fishing" and that the statement about blood on the sidewalk would sense at the unmasking hour. In a couple of hours I'll be back to a normal computer to follow up on anything that happens and can say with decent confidence that there will be more to talk about of a less speculative nature tommorow.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:38 pm UTC

matt96 wrote:I found it odd that adnapemit's claim would be so vague if adnapemit was going to claim at all, unless she wanted the extension , the length of which was not clarified until after the claim.
Factually not true. Also I think adnapemit's claim is quite the opposite, being too specific.

matt96 wrote:There are also a few statements moody made earlier that seem a bit strange to me, namely the question for myself and generalz regarding power spec compared to "scummy looking role fishing"
So wanting to engage you in conversation seems strange to you?

matt96 wrote:that the statement about blood on the sidewalk would sense at the unmasking hour.
What do you think is strange there? I think that is standard breadcrumbing.

Vote: matt96

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby dimochka » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:52 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:I found it odd that adnapemit's claim would be so vague if adnapemit was going to claim at all, unless she wanted the extension , the length of which was not clarified until after the claim.
Factually not true. Also I think adnapemit's claim is quite the opposite, being too specific.

Wait, how? All I see is this:
adnapemit wrote:I am not mafia.
I have a one shot ability. It is not a kill power.

It's honestly pretty vague in my book too...

And re: extension - to be fair, I missed it too. That's why I asked about it close to the deadline.

And I'm realizing just how much this links me with matt, but I kinda see his side in this post.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:56 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:First I reread everything and have a question for Sabrar and jimbob. Both picked out that I had few town reads. I explained my opinion on heuristically_alone(Which since he still hasn't posted I am starting to doubt). Are you finding this scummy because I didn't think enough people were town?
Bascially, yes. Sabrar largely summarised this already. By having most people as scummy, scum keep their options open, so that they can join whichever wagon they feel like without having to go against what they previously said. Alternatively, if no suitable opportunities present themselves, they can start pushing people, to try and see what they can drum up. It also means that they can put their team-mates as scummy (or neutral) to try to distance themselves without necessarily putting much pressure on their teammates.

You don't help your case by finding scummy things in some of your neutral reads in your latest post as well. Who do you actually find townie apart from moody?

Despite all those scum reads you then go and suggest voting Matt for being the lurkiest, but don't actually vote yourself until your later post. Not sure why you'd hold off unless your looking for somebody to jump on a wagon with. Timing may be coincidental, but conveniently for you Sabrar says he would be willing to vote matt before your next post.

On posts from other players since my previous post:
mpolo - whichever way he does decide to vote, I'd like some concrete reasons from him why he picked that way.
Madge - as Sabrar said already, her refusal to give reads is fairly typical from Madge.
Sabrar - feels like his pushing on some players is a little harsh (e.g. the deadline extension confusion to matt, when even a co-mod wasn't sure at one point), but otherwise nothing stands out here.
dimochka - gave good justifications in response to adnapemit's finding him scummy, which makes me feel like he is likely town.
matt - I'm not thrilled by matt's posts this game so far. However, I don't see anything outright scummy in what he has said. I'd like to see a more detailed breakdown of his top scum and town picks, with justifications though.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:11 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Wait, how? All I see is this:
adnapemit wrote:I am not mafia.
I have a one shot ability. It is not a kill power.

It's honestly pretty vague in my book too...

Was hoping to avoid having to explain, but scum probably realizes this as well and I could be wrong.
I would generally assume that in a closed setup where the mods create the roles most players would receive powers roughly on the same level of usefulness (as it would be in quite bad form to have a VT among a lot of powerful townies). Therefore a one-shot power has to be a pretty strong one so as the player does not feel inferior. So in my interpretation adnapemit just painted a clear target on herself for scum to kill/roleblock (unless of course she's scum as well).
Maybe specific was not quite the right word to use, but to call it vague is a serious understatement about the info she provided.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:13 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:I found it odd that adnapemit's claim would be so vague if adnapemit was going to claim at all, unless she wanted the extension , the length of which was not clarified until after the claim.
Factually not true. Also I think adnapemit's claim is quite the opposite, being too specific.

Wait, how? All I see is this:
adnapemit wrote:I am not mafia.
I have a one shot ability. It is not a kill power.

It's honestly pretty vague in my book too...

And re: extension - to be fair, I missed it too. That's why I asked about it close to the deadline.

And I'm realizing just how much this links me with matt, but I kinda see his side in this post.

I assumed it hadn't been clarified because you asked after the claim.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:21 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Maybe specific was not quite the right word to use, but to call it vague is a serious understatement about the info she provided.
Not necessarily. Even if adnapemit is telling the truth, it could, for example, be quite a weak power on the surface, with some unknown hidden mechanic, for example. I think you underestimate what DJ et al might have done to this setup.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:24 pm UTC

Actually, ignore my last post. If there's a hidden aspect to it, it probably increases the power of the role, therefore giving us information either way (i.e. the role could be powerful either way, adnapemit just doesn't necessarily know). Of course, my points about DJ et al messing about with the setup and therefore not to take anything for granted still stands.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby adnapemit » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:41 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:You don't help your case by finding scummy things in some of your neutral reads in your latest post as well. Who do you actually find townie apart from moody?
Znirk. If I had to pick the most townie of my neutrals then generalz.
Despite all those scum reads you then go and suggest voting Matt for being the lurkiest, but don't actually vote yourself until your later post. Not sure why you'd hold off unless your looking for somebody to jump on a wagon with. Timing may be coincidental, but conveniently for you Sabrar says he would be willing to vote matt before your next post.

I made the earlier post quickly when I didn't have much time, I waited till I got home and had reread things before making a decision.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:43 pm UTC

@adnapemit: as long as you're here, do you have any reactions to the replies jimbob and I gave to your earlier inquiry?

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:49 pm UTC

There is basically nothing I find townie in matt's content and the way he's been lurking for the most part of the day. I'm comfortable with my vote on him, provided heuristically_alone will be handled by the mods. Should be online for another 20-30 minutes, will hopefully be asleep during deadline.
That said we would probably learn the most from adnapemit's flip so I'm not opposed to it per se.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby moody7277 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:56 pm UTC

If we could say for sure that h_a was going to be replaced or modkilled

and

If someone else not currently voting for matt were to switch to him

then

Based on what he posted at the top of the page, I would be content to switch my vote to matt.

I will be available until almost deadline time.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby adnapemit » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:00 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@adnapemit: as long as you're here, do you have any reactions to the replies jimbob and I gave to your earlier inquiry?

I think scum could also make everyone town or neutral and that would be similar to making them all scummy, giving a similar opinion of everyone and then finding something scummy to vote for. It is also early game and I think those who are scum are more likely to be able to say X number of players are scum, X number of players are neutral, X number of players are town because that's what they expect others to expect of them. If two people think that a certain behaviour is scummy then there is a good chance that scum is going to avoid doing that. They also know how many players are scum and are starting to plan how to make others targets.

I didn't get many townie pings when I wrote my reads list so I was not comfortable putting anyone as town.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:04 pm UTC

I will, as a rule, always attempt replacement before modkill.

Still waiting on news of Heuristically_Alone.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:10 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:If two people think that a certain behaviour is scummy then there is a good chance that scum is going to avoid doing that.
Unless the scumminess of that behavior was not explained before.

Almost last thought for the day: I'm beginning to like my previous idea of a moody-adnapemit scum team more and more. Of course that would mean that my vote on matt is totally wrong. Be back in a few.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Znirk » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:25 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:If we could say for sure that h_a was going to be replaced or modkilled

and

If someone else not currently voting for matt were to switch to him

then

Based on what he posted at the top of the page, I would be content to switch my vote to matt.

I will be available until almost deadline time.


Given that Matt's return to the land of the living has been distinctly unimpressive, and that based on recent posts I'm more willing than a few days ago to give Adnapemit the benefit of the doubt:

unvote

vote: Matt96

But yes, I'm also very curious to hear either from or about Heuristically_alone. Will be around for maybe one more hour.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby moody7277 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:31 pm UTC

Unvote

Vote: matt96
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 pm UTC

Re-read moody, didn't come to a solid conclusion. Got ninja'd twice while writing out my thoughts: I think if matt flips town there is an extremely high chance of moody + adnapemit being scum, so willing to leave my vote there. Good night everybody.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:35 pm UTC

I'm going to bed, and I've not seen anything to change my mind, so my vote stands. I agree that Matt hasn't been helpful yet, but I prefer to focus on people with poor content amongst active players this early on, as often quieter people pick up more D2.

An all town list also should be looked at with some suspicion, just like an all scum list. At worst, both all town or all scum lists are unhelpful, because it gives no useful information. That's why I quite like the ordered list idea bessie used in previous games and I sometimes use as well. It forces people to make a decision and helps indicate who they find (or claim to find) most and least scummy to everyone else.

Saying that scum won't post either an all scum list or an all town list is just wine. Scum won't post that sort of list because it looks scummy, so they should post that sort of list etc. My belief is that because scum don't have to decide who is scummiest, they can easily unthinkingly post these sort of lists, whereas town know that such lists don't bring themselves anything and so try harder to distinguish between people.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:40 pm UTC

Is this enough votes on me to warrant a claim? While I would rather get by without claiming, I will if I wouldn't see Day 2 either way.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:49 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:There are also a few statements moody made earlier that seem a bit strange to me, namely the question for myself and generalz regarding power spec compared to "scummy looking role fishing"
So wanting to engage you in conversation seems strange to you?
[\quote]
What felt a bit off about this wasn't that there was a question, but rather the way it was framed, specifically asking about a line between them seemed a bit strange given how different the two are and saying that role fishing only looked scummy rather than outright claiming it to be scummy at the same time as calling role spec useful seemed significantly less committed to the negative stance than the positive one.

Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:that the statement about blood on the sidewalk would sense at the unmasking hour.
What do you think is strange there? I think that is standard breadcrumbing.

I just find it odd that the odd phrasing was carried over to the reply, leaving some room to back off if need later if pressed on whether or not the inital statement was actually a crumb.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby dimochka » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:50 pm UTC

Unofficial votes.. I think

adnapemit (1) : jimbobmacdoodle, dimochka
Madge (1) : heuristically_alone
mpolo (1) : carlington
matt (4) : adnapemit, sabrar, znirk, moody

Not Voting (4) : generalz, Madge, matt96, mpolo

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:51 pm UTC

EBWOP:Fixed formating
Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:There are also a few statements moody made earlier that seem a bit strange to me, namely the question for myself and generalz regarding power spec compared to "scummy looking role fishing"
So wanting to engage you in conversation seems strange to you?

What felt a bit off about this wasn't that there was a question, but rather the way it was framed, specifically asking about a line between them seemed a bit strange given how different the two are and saying that role fishing only looked scummy rather than outright claiming it to be scummy at the same time as calling role spec useful seemed significantly less committed to the negative stance than the positive one.

Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:that the statement about blood on the sidewalk would sense at the unmasking hour.
What do you think is strange there? I think that is standard breadcrumbing.
[/quote]
I just find it odd that the odd phrasing was carried over to the reply, leaving some room to back off if need later if pressed on whether or not the inital statement was actually a crumb.


Also will claim in 2 hours if nothing happens by then.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Znirk » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:15 am UTC

matt96 wrote:Also will claim in 2 hours if nothing happens by then.

After days of little content, no opinions, and no vote, I don't think I'm all that interested in your last-ditch claim. Do you have anything else to contribute? Whom do you see as scummiest player(s)? Whom do you trust to some extent?

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:32 am UTC

Matt: I'm at work right now so I'll be on in two hours to hear your claim. If I really like the look of it I might be persuaded to vote for someone else, and if I really hate the look of it I might be persuaded to vote for you, so, in the spirit of Halloween, BEWARE.

That said, don't count on my presence as there's a chance that I'll be snowed under any minute when my project comes back.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:29 am UTC

matt96 wrote:Ok, I thought it was a bit strange initially that only some costumes were linked to names in the flavor, but as it turns out, I simply missed the Costume list in the first post. There likely will be things I can do to, but only if allowed to. Don't want to say too much more without anything to back it up, but I will say that if I need to claim my stereotype, I would be able to link it to coffee and the current season. Regarding claims about standard roles, non-standard roles, I'd put claims of a close to standard role like Znirk has claimed to have as more standard than unusual, unless the twist majorly changes how the role works. On the topic of bread crumbing, I am of the opinion that simply outright claiming something that is obscure but can be justified within the context of your future claim could make it clear that future claims are the same as was prepared for day 1, as it would be easier to prepare for multiple false claims by hiding things in text than it would be to prepare justifications for multiple roles from the same statement.

I've got a doctor that only works if the person I'm targeting agrees to let me by way of an anonymous message. As for stereotype, I went with band member, I could explain how it relates to coffee and the current season, but stereotype confirmation doesn't seem too helpful at this time.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby bessie » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:40 am UTC

Votals:

adnapemit (2) : jimbobmacdoodle, dimochka
Madge (1) : heuristically_alone
matt96 (4) : adnapemit, Sabrar, Znirk, moody7277
mpolo (1) : Carlington

Not Voting (4) : generalz, Madge, matt96, mpolo

Deadline: Tuesday, November 1, 11:59:59 PM EST

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:59 am UTC

Sorry for responding to the mod prod instead of waiting out the rest of the day.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:05 am UTC

Because of the current circumstances, including the need to replace Heuristically_Alone, we have decided to grant an additional extension.

I will make this a 48-hour extension, with the hope that this will give us enough time to secure a replacement for Heuristic and give them enough time to act before the end of Day 1.

Once again, if anyone has not submitted a night action or would like to change it, you have until these 48 hours are up to do so.

I'm inclined not to repeat this scenario again, so let's not, shall we?

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:35 am UTC

matt96 wrote:Sorry for responding to the mod prod instead of waiting out the rest of the day.
What is this relating to? Why would you apologize for contributing to the game, especially if it means your survival?

Unvote

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:43 am UTC

I think he's annoyed that he didn't have any votes until he started talking, and then he got votes all of a sudden when he did start talking. I can imagine it wouldn't be fun.
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:51 am UTC

Okay, I can see that. Still, did he really think that making 1 post during D1 (that lasts more than a week) would be acceptable?

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby generalz » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:51 am UTC

generalz wrote:PS: I will be away the 30th-31st-1st but with (phone) internet access.

I am back and fully functional now. I didn't realize I was away in the middle of the deadline but still followed (most of) the discussions.

Some additional reads based on latest posts:

Sabrar: very active and helpful. Currently towniest person for me.

matt96: quite sure he is telling the truth about being a doctor. However paints a big target on his head (not like he had a choice :/)

adnapemit: not really convinced by her semi-claim. My vote would go on her for the moment.

dimochka:
dimochka wrote:Generalz is scummy because he didn't bother analyzing anyone, didn't ask questions, and put up reads that were in my opinion very meh.

After re-reading your posts, that could apply to you too :)

mpolo/Carlington: quite quiet (uhu) since a few days. Not sure this is because of the Halloween effect or because they did not have anything to contribute

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:40 am UTC

Gopher of Pern will replace Heuristically_Alone effective immediately.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Znirk » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:45 am UTC

matt96 wrote:Sorry for responding to the mod prod instead of waiting out the rest of the day.

From where I'm sitting, the problem isn't that you responded. It's that after having alredy done very little up to the original deadline, your prod response did not contain any obvious attempts to play the game.

There may be a case for not seeking the spotlight in a game like this; but with a modprod and threat of replacement, the spotlight seeks you. Do something, and soon.

About the claim: I guess I'll buy that you capitalisation-crumbed "doctor", and I can see no similar hints pointing to other possible claims in your posts, and claiming doctor in a game that likely has one would be a stupid way to behave for scum. I still don't exactly like what I see from you, but

unvote

for now. You have my attention though.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby adnapemit » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:38 am UTC

Unvote
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby matt96 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:12 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:Sorry for responding to the mod prod instead of waiting out the rest of the day.
What is this relating to? Why would you apologize for contributing to the game, especially if it means your survival?

Unvote

it was more of apologizing for wasting the Day 1 lynch as that had been deadline, and no one was around to at least let me be useful by probably getting night killed instead.

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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:40 pm UTC

Whilst I'm broadly willing to buy Matt's claim, I don't like how even still, despite multiple requests, he has failed to provide any useful information. Furthermore, I don't quite get how his role is supposed to work, especially given the pseudo-nightless nature of the game. Are you saying that the other person would get informed that they had to choose whether to accept healing or not? Presumably that would mean that night would have to continue until that player had had a chance to respond. Unless you use the action during the day, in which case, did you send it already? There's something not quite right here, I feel, but I can't think what.

Looking forward to hearing from Gopher of Pern.
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Sabrar
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:54 pm UTC

I took it as him having to send an anonymous pm to his intended target (probably via mods) during the day and that person can choose to accept. Obviously the target should not reveal how this works, which makes the claim unverifiable (though to be fair a normal doc is unverifiable as well).

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mpolo
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Re: MMM II - Day 1: The Murder and the Lynch-Mob

Postby mpolo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:00 pm UTC

So, checking in from the hotel worked, but it was also easy to forget when we got in late… So, I am here at home again, but I need to go to bed now.

At this point, adnapemit has had some more content, and heuristically has disappeared. Which makes neither of them an ideal lynch candidate (caveat, I only skimmed said content, but it seemed reasonable from there). Matt's claim makes him an exceptionally poor lynch target. Although I somewhat wonder about his claimed ability in a semi-nightless scenario. It doesn't seem like one would have a lot of time to give him permission to visit you.
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