Secret Santa 2016 - D5 - Happy New Year!

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Sabrar
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:51 am UTC

I almost protected matt but then I decided to be clever...

So original setup was 8-3-2-1 and we're down to 5-1-1. Should be in the bag with SK in {adnapemit, mpolo}. If there is bastardry in the role we still can afford to lynch both of them, plus now we can even coordinate roleblocks and other night-actions.

@bessie: do you want to claim Maker? :D Also, what's your win condition so that you can be alive at the end of the game but not win?

For jimbob's benefit:

Vote: Gopher of Pern

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:01 am UTC

jimbob, I am vote-blocked.

Sabrar, how do you know that the maker is an independant? They could be town. Not that it really matters.

If matt was the only person to target someone, would the targeted person's action go through as intended?

Another redirector? This game would have been a right headache if they had survived!

N2 -
So, matts action could not have stopped adnapemit, only redirected it. But as no one else targeted adnapemit, I'm not sure what would have happened. So unless they withheld the kill, they are not the SK.

That leaves SDK or bessie as people who might have been blocked from killing.

mpolo, have you clarified who you sent your results to when?
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Madge » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:12 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:If matt was the only person to target someone, would the targeted person's action go through as intended?


Matt would be considered as one of the people targeting his target, so any action would be redirected onto him by default if there were no other eligable targets.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:32 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Sabrar, how do you know that the maker is an independant?
It's an educated guess.

Unvote

Gopher of Pern wrote:That leaves SDK or bessie as people who might have been blocked from killing.
I blocked bessie N1 and there were 2 kills.
Also it is possible that SK has Ninja and the kills coincided.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:14 am UTC

EBWOP: also you tracked SDK N1 and so him only visiting jimbob. So SK has to have Ninja, unless it's you with Godfather + ublockable kill.
Or SK withhold the kill N2.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:55 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:EBWOP: also you tracked SDK N1 and so him only visiting jimbob. So SK has to have Ninja, unless it's you with Godfather + ublockable kill.
Or SK withhold the kill N2.
Gopher being scum doesn't make sense unless we still have 2 scum left, as he isn't in {adnapemit, mpolo}.

I targeted Gopher, because if Carlington had flipped town, Gopher would have been a good candidate for scum, despite my cop result.

@Gopher, I assume you don't have any night results to indicate roleblock or not?

No more time now. Will respond to things later and post my updated thoughts.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby adnapemit » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:57 pm UTC

@jimbob:
I targeted you last night with the same ability I targeted bessie N1. Did you get any results?
If it was redirected by matt to matt before his death then it would the second time it has failed. :(
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:46 pm UTC

Ninja is not out of the question.

So, if the kill was blocked, then it could only be SDK? Who has ninja? Otherwise, the kill was withheld, or the SK has ninja, and targeted Carlington as well?

In other words, that line of thinking does not help us. It basically confirms that the SK either has ninja, or withheld the kill.

As I said, I'm VT now, so I can't confirm whether jimbob roleblocked me or not.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby SDK » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:35 pm UTC

Sandman is a typical Guardian Angel role. The "maker" was probably chosen at random from all other players and could be town or scum. Almost certainly not a special role/alignment based on matt's role PM.

So I guess we lynch adnapemit now and probably just win?

Vote adnapemit.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:01 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Gopher being scum doesn't make sense unless we still have 2 scum left, as he isn't in {adnapemit, mpolo}.
The logic is true for everyone else as well, now we're just making contingency plans in case Dj/mpolo received a bastard role and both him and adnapemit is Town.
I'm inclined to lynch adnapemit as well. We can coordinate who to block besides mpolo.

@mpolo: who did you send your list N3?

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby bessie » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:23 pm UTC

I did not target anyone last night, and I did not receive anything.

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: do you want to claim Maker? :D Also, what's your win condition so that you can be alive at the end of the game but not win?
My win condition does not require me to be alive at the end of the game to win.

Sabrar wrote:So original setup was 8-3-2-1 and we're down to 5-1-1.
Matt’s maker doesn’t necessarily need to be an independent aligned with him. I think the maker is probably just assigned to someone randomly without their knowledge. If the maker is independent and aligned with matt, what would be their win condition? We could still be at 5-1-1 though.

SDK wrote:So I guess we lynch adnapemit now and probably just win?
I think we need to lynch adnapemit, but I’m not sure it will end the game. I think there is another independent. And no it's not me.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:18 pm UTC

@jimbob: your ability has probably higher priority than mine, do you want to block mpolo tonight?

@all: should I block a possible scum or try to guess who the target of the NK will be and protect them?

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Madge » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:43 pm UTC

Votals:

Adnapemit (1) - SDK


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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby SDK » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:56 am UTC

Roleblocker is more powerful than doctor in the late game.

We've already got two neutrals (at least). Is there a reason you think we've got more than two?
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:50 am UTC

Madge wrote:Note that a side effect of the magic that brought you to life means that your Maker has no idea who you are.
I've read the above and because of the wording I thought that the Maker would be aware of the existence of the Guardian Angel but not know the identity of him. In my opinion that makes better sense if the Maker is indie as well, though I could easily be wrong in both of my assumptions.

SDK wrote:Roleblocker is more powerful than doctor in the late game.
Not if SK has a kill that can't be role-blocked but can be prevented by making his target untargetable.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:42 am UTC

Yes, me targeting mpolo sounds as sensible as anything else.

A thought - in this game, I could see an unblockable and/or ninja SK being possible. I could also see the SK only being able to kill every other night in that case, which would explain the lack of second kill N2 and why Gopher didn't see anything else suspicious from anyone that night. I don't think it makes any difference to what we do today.

I received nothing from adnapemit. I think it entirely possible that she doesn't have the claimed ability, but even if she does, matt targeting her (and potentially getting killed for the effort) would likely also have received whatever she planned to give.

I now understand what was going on with matt, his claim and so on. N2, adnapemit might have had no action (claimed immunity), so matt redirected nothing onto himself, ignoring my block because redirection comes before block. Matt, suspecting adnapemit to be a killer targets her again in an attempt to take the kill, thus drawing it away from his maker. If he failed again, he'd know that the killer can't have been his target, but only if nobody else targeted his target. Unfortunately, it doesn't confirm adnapemit as killer, since matt could just as easily have been killed by mpolo or whoever.

@Sabrar - you could always try blocking mpolo with me, in case using a kill on a blocker always succeeds. I think you should not disclose your target before the night though.

Vote adnapemit

L - 2.

Who did you target, Sabrar and SDK? I'm guessing mpolo never submitted their cop action, though I suppose they could pretend that they didn't so that suspicion continues to fall on adnapemit.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:07 am UTC

I've also thought about an odd-night SK, that would be great for us as it allows 4 lynches instead of 3. Though we shouldn't bank on that.

I will claim my target after mpolo.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby SDK » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:21 pm UTC

I targeted Sabrar, giving him an ability that I will not disclose.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:34 pm UTC

Can confirm, received turkey, was only targeted by SDK. Ate the turkey, not gonna disclose my new ability.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby bessie » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:53 pm UTC

SDK wrote:We've already got two neutrals (at least). Is there a reason you think we've got more than two?

Yes. We haven’t seen an unblockable kill flip yet. I think we might have one. If adnapemit has an unblockable kill why didn’t she use it N2?

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:03 am UTC

Request mod-prod on mpolo.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby SDK » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:10 am UTC

Odd-night only kills? Meh, we'll see. We've got a very strong town block now. This game is won no matter what.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby mpolo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:56 am UTC

I totally missed the deadlines, as I got here and my mother had just sent her computer to the shop. I just managed to borrow a laptop from my sister, so should be able to participate.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby adnapemit » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:59 am UTC

bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:We've already got two neutrals (at least). Is there a reason you think we've got more than two?

Yes. We haven’t seen an unblockable kill flip yet. I think we might have one.
Do you have an unblockable kill bessie?
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:04 am UTC

I targeted jimbob last night, based on the site Madge linked to I was confident that his roleblock would happen before mine and I thought scum would be afraid of his vote-blocking.

@mpolo: who did Dj g

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:06 am UTC

EBWOP: and that's why I don't like phone-posting.

@mpolo: who did Dj give the list N1?

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby mpolo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:43 pm UTC

According to the PM here, DJ's target on N1 was Gopher of Pern (and N2 was bessie). According to the description of the power, these people should have received a list with a mod assurance that there was at least one scum on it. It would be major bastardy for that to be a lie, so there is a lot of suspicion connected with not revealing the lists. I understand that there is some possibility of redirection, though. I have read the last two pages at least. I have to take my mother to a doctor's appointment, which may last a while.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:12 pm UTC

@bessie: assuming adnapemit is the last scum, what in your opinion is the reason that you did not receive the list N2?

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby bessie » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:25 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: assuming adnapemit is the last scum, what in your opinion is the reason that you did not receive the list N2?
I’m a commuter. Gopher of Pern should be able to confirm this. Gopher of Pern, what was your tracking result on me N2?

adnapemit wrote:Do you have an unblockable kill bessie?
I think someone has an unblockable kill because I haven’t seen a power yet that can kill me if I decide to commute. Unless I’m completely misunderstanding my role and/or the order of night actions, which seems to happen at least once every game.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D3 - Lunchtime!

Postby Sabrar » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:42 pm UTC

From here:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Ok, here are my results from last night:

jimbo targeted myself and matt.
Sabrar targeted SDK.
Carlington targeted moody.
DJ targeted bessie.
Matt targeted adnapemit

That was all the targeting going on.

This only confirms that Dj targeted you and you didn't target anyone else (unless Ninja). Standard Commuter should be immune to unblockable kills, as the page Madge linked to has it at lower priority than roleblocks/kills.
However redirection is at even lower priority so according to this it could be possible that kalira's ability would have been able to kill you (she targets you before you commute, you die because you don't target anyone).

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:50 pm UTC

EBWOP: "lower priority" in the above means it happens earlier (page linked by Madge uses numbers in ascending order to denote priority levels).

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby bessie » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:01 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern should have a "no result" on me, as opposed to a "didn't track anyone" result.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:55 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Gopher of Pern should have a "no result" on me, as opposed to a "didn't track anyone" result.
Not necessarily. If Gopher's ability is "informed of the targets of all players" or similar, he may not have received any result from anybody who didn't target anyone.

@mpolo - are you saying you didn't submit an action last night?
Sabrar wrote:I thought scum would be afraid of his vote-blocking
Personally, I'm constantly afraid I'll vote block a player whose vote is critical to town's success, but that's just me. It could become important if approaching LYLO, I guess, but by the same token could cause town to lose if I guess incorrectly.

By the way, I'm beginning to feel like Trial of the Pariahs again, with the way this is turning out (adnapemit, almost certainly last scum and cornered, game apparently almost wrapped up and me with a roleblock etc). I just hope there isn't another silversmith incident :/
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby mpolo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:51 am UTC

I had assumed that I was going to have Internet access upon getting here, but there was no computer, and Kindle access to Internet is not something I was going to put myself through. So, no, I did not submit an action last night. From what I'm reading, adnapemit seems the most likely scum, but I am really taking other people's word for it. I would like to read a bit more into this. Perhaps someone who has the details of the case against adnapemit could summarize the argument to make this easier.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby SDK » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:07 am UTC

There is no case. Your ability apparently gave the result that at least one of SirG, adnapemit and emlightened are scum. SirG and em are dead town.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:39 am UTC

bessie, does your ability specifically say untargetable?
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:55 am UTC

@Gopher of Pern: in what format did you receive your results for N2? Was it a separate entry for each player or just the compiled list?

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby mpolo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:29 pm UTC

O.K. From my point of view, that's actually a pretty strong case -- assuming we trust the person who gave the information. There is presumably only one scum left, given the elimination of the mafia, so that it is unlikely that there is collusion involved in this.
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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D4 - HOWZAT?!

Postby Sabrar » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:40 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:assuming we trust the person who gave the information.
List was given by moody, confirmed Town (dead). Dj was probably redirected N1 and that's why moody received it.

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Re: Secret Santa 2016 - D3 - Lunchtime!

Postby bessie » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:28 pm UTC

I should be untargetable, which is why I said this on D3:
bessie wrote:Gopher of Pern, you can reveal your watcher result on me, if you have one.

A normal watcher shouldn’t have seen DJ target me. That’s why your tracker result made more sense to me.

If the game doesn’t end with adnapemit’s lynch, no one should waste a night action on me. Unless you’re scum. Then waste away.


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