Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (N4)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:14 pm UTC

Day 5: The Leader in Waiting
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A banging on her door woke Siuan up with a start. “Mother, come quickly, you must come and see this,” came the voice of Leane through the door. Hurriedly, Siuan threw on a dressing gown and slippers and went to see what the matter was.

The Keeper was stood outside, with a ball of light glowing beside her. She had clearly been woken only shortly before herself.

“There’s been an incident, in the Red quarters. You had best see for yourself.”

The two Aes Sedai hurried down the corridors and stairways, making their way from the Amyrlin’s rooms to the section of the Tower where the Red sisters had their quarters. A group of Sisters were gathered around one of the doors, and parted as they saw Siua approach, hushed whispers passing between them.

Through the open doorway, Siuan could see the lit room belonging to one of those she had entrusted with the search for the Black Ajah, she went to step inside and stopped abruptly as she saw properly the centre of the room. There, floating above a magnificent Sharan rug hung the figure of Elaida Sedai, slowly rotating in the air. Siuan could see the weaves holding her in place, and quickly cut them. The body of the Sister fell to the floor.
A quick delve allayed the worst fears, as there was still a spark of life in the unconscious Red’s form. It would need more than her own skills to bring her back round however.

“She’s alive, Leane, but I doubt for long, without help. Go and get some Yellow Sisters and bring one of the Tower’s angreal with you on the way back. We have to stabilise her. The rest of you, go back to your quarters. This matter is not for discussion,” she ordered.
Leane hurried out, and the others started to disperse after a few moments, leaving Siuan alone. She took that opportunity to take a look around. Elaida had a lot of decorations, several books, and on her table was a writing journal, but it was written in her own code, so a quick glance didn’t tell her anything useful.

Shortly, a number of Yellow Ajah members appeared, and carefully they took the comatose figure away for treatment. How long it would take for them to be able to Heal Elaida would be anybody’s guess, if they succeeded at all.

The Amyrlin returned to her quarters, and with dawn almost upon the Tower, there seemed little point in returning to bed. Instead, she got dressed, and made her way down to the cells, to question yesterday’s suspect herself. She dismissed the Sister and Warder who had been placed on watch, and went into the cell herself. Chained to the wall was a figure she recognised as Sylestra Newick, of the Red Ajah. As she entered, the woman looked up at Siuan and chuckled.

“Ha, come to see me yourself, have you, Mother? Come to gloat over one you have captured? See, I don’t even pretend to protest my innocence. I know that I have been doing the Great Lord’s work, and I will be rewarded, no matter what you do to me. And you, you will soon be fallen. Even with that fool Elaida no longer trying to take you down, you will not last long. You shall see,” Sylestra gloated.

Siuan let her go on ranting. It was doubtful that half of what the self-confessed Black Sister said could be trusted, but she had seen some evidence of attempts to unseat her. Maybe, it wasn’t entirely the Black Ajah to be blamed for things after all…


Sabrar was lynched. He was Sylestra Newick, ostensibly Aes Sedai of the Red Ajah, but in fact a member of the Black Ajah.

Role info:
Spoiler:
His win condition was to control the leadership of the White Tower or to eliminate all other players (or if nothing could prevent that). His faction controls a night kill, but only after one of the faction members was killed. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

Each night, Sabrar could use the One Power Talent of Stunning to roleblock another player.
SirGabriel has been killed. He was Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan, Aes Sedai of the Red Ajah, leader of the supporters of Elaida.

Role info:
Spoiler:
His win condition was to eliminate all threats to Elaida’s leadership (unaligned players are not threats). Each night, he could recruit an additional member, if a faction member was not lynched. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

Each night, he could use the One Power Talent of Foretelling to ask a question about the game mechanics, setup, or in-game events (but not about specific individuals), and would be given a truthful answer at the start of the next Day.
It is now Day 5. With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch. Deadline is at 8pm UTC, Monday 20th February. Apologies for the slightly shorter day. If this is an issue, I am prepared to grant an extension, but I am not available on Tuesday to process night.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:50 am UTC

Monday is fine with me.

I have no results to share. No one sent me anything.

Gopher of Pern, you have one post to convince me not to vote for you. And please respond to this post.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:08 am UTC

You just always seemed to be on the point with what is going on. My conclusion was you either were a very good guesser, or scum. I'm now convinced you are not scum.

Your role is still secret. I have no idea what you do. All I know is that you've got scum scared to share what you can do. You also keep on misinterpreting what I say, which is something Sabrar did, and they turned out to be scum.

My vote for matt96 was purely for meta reasons. The last day I became disheartened that people weren't listening to each other. Or contributing much.

Not that you're going to believe me. I find your sudden interest in voting for me quite quaint. Someone visited you last night, perchance? Everything I have done has been to remove the black Ajah. With people so short-sighted around here, it's amazing anything gets done.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:42 am UTC

I don't really understand what happened. I was given an ivory statue N3 which was supposed to protect someone from death. When I used it on SirGabriel on N4, he died. I don't know if I somehow killed him but I wanted to get this out there early on. Maybe I was roleblocked? Or maybe this statue isn't actually a protection or something else bastardly? People with flavor - ideas?

Otherwise as I said I'm vanilla so my opinions from D4 haven't changed much as of yet.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:44 am UTC

EBWOP: It was a ter’angreal. I don't know if that matters.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:37 am UTC

And one more thing - for anyone wondering why I didn't mention getting a ter’angreal - (a) because I didn't want to announce that I have a doctor power, else it kinda invalidates it, (b) because I couldn't think of a good way to hint at it, and (c) because I figured that whoever gave it to me would realize that I received it from my response on D4, which was
dimochka wrote:i'm vanilla so i don't have any actions to report on
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:51 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:You just always seemed to be on the point with what is going on.
Do I really give you the impression of someone that knows what is going on?

Gopher of Pern wrote:Your role is still secret. I have no idea what you do.
No, I think you’re much too good of a player to not have at least a guess as to what my role might be.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Someone visited you last night, perchance?
No one visited me, gave me a gift, invitation, message, etc. of which I am aware.

dimochka wrote:I don't really understand what happened. I was given an ivory statue N3 which was supposed to protect someone from death. When I used it on SirGabriel on N4, he died. I don't know if I somehow killed him but I wanted to get this out there early on. Maybe I was roleblocked? Or maybe this statue isn't actually a protection or something else bastardly? People with flavor - ideas?

dimochka, I believe there are two types of kills. Those which use the One Power and those which use ter’angreal (or another object). And no, Gopher of Pern, I do not have any inside information. This is from Madge's role reveal.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Each night, she could use the One Power to place wards to protect another player. She could either place a ward that protects against One Power-based abilities, or that protects against other abilities. Her target would become immune to the next use of that type of ability to target them, even if it wasn’t that night.

Did your Ivory Statue ter’angreal protect against attacks by the One Power or from attacks by objects? And which was your vigilante power? Did you use the One Power to kill Jude? Or did you have a weapon like Madge did?

Note that I have previously suggested that the Black Ajah use/distribute the ter’angreal and that they may be false and possibly booby trapped. Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
And here.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:09 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:You just always seemed to be on the point with what is going on.
Do I really give you the impression of someone that knows what is going on?


Yes. You do.
bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Your role is still secret. I have no idea what you do.
No, I think you’re much too good of a player to not have at least a guess as to what my role might be.


No, I've got no idea.
bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Someone visited you last night, perchance?
No one visited me, gave me a gift, invitation, message, etc. of which I am aware.

dimochka wrote:I don't really understand what happened. I was given an ivory statue N3 which was supposed to protect someone from death. When I used it on SirGabriel on N4, he died. I don't know if I somehow killed him but I wanted to get this out there early on. Maybe I was roleblocked? Or maybe this statue isn't actually a protection or something else bastardly? People with flavor - ideas?

dimochka, I believe there are two types of kills. Those which use the One Power and those which use ter’angreal (or another object). And no, Gopher of Pern, I do not have any inside information. This is from Madge's role reveal.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Each night, she could use the One Power to place wards to protect another player. She could either place a ward that protects against One Power-based abilities, or that protects against other abilities. Her target would become immune to the next use of that type of ability to target them, even if it wasn’t that night.

Did your Ivory Statue ter’angreal protect against attacks by the One Power or from attacks by objects? And which was your vigilante power? Did you use the One Power to kill Jude? Or did you have a weapon like Madge did?

Note that I have previously suggested that the Black Ajah use/distribute the ter’angreal and that they may be false and possibly booby trapped. Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
And here.


Note who else championed the idea of corrupt ter-angreals? Sabrar.

You are giving me entirely too much credit. And I'm probably giving you too little credit, as you seem to have figured out a lot on your own.

As for dim, I have no idea why your protection didn't work. Unless the final scum has an unblockable power? We've already gotten the roleblocker and the leader, the third one often has some sort of unblockability to them. (Yes, thats a word.)
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:44 am UTC

bessie wrote:Did your Ivory Statue ter’angreal protect against attacks by the One Power or from attacks by objects?

It just stopped a player from being killed, doesn't specify.

bessie wrote:Did your Ivory Statue ter’angreal protect against attacks by the One Power or from attacks by objects? And which was your vigilante power? Did you use the One Power to kill Jude? Or did you have a weapon like Madge did?

Yes, my vig power was the One Power. I just don't exactly know the difference between One power and not One power...
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:09 am UTC

I tried to ward SirGabriel from OnePower effects. Obviously, either it didn't work, or he was attacked by "other effects", despite the flavor indicating pretty clearly a One Power attack. (Maybe he had already been warded by Madge, so that my action broke the ward, except that my power description implies that I could successfully ward someone who had already been warded, just that there would only be one ward in place.) Or maybe there was an earlier OnePower action on SirGabriel that was blocked?

I received a ter'angreal that has no activation. It is automatically assumed that I will wear it. So I sure hope it's not booby-trapped.

As seen above, I checked the thread relatively late, saw a tie and tried to break it, but missed by 2 minutes (and wasn't warned of the ninja). Since the person I tried to switch to was lynched, I can't complain there at all.

There is presumably 1 Black sister left, or there are enough unaligned sisters that the struggle between Siuan's and Elaida's supporters is undecided.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:11 pm UTC

Maybe the real difference is that ter'angreal are not considered direct use of the One Power, even though they are technically bound up with the One Power in the books. (bessie had this idea first, I just managed to read it, having posted my results without paying a whole lot of attention to the other day-start posts).
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby matt96 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:52 pm UTC

Given dimochka claimed to use a ter'angreal on SirGabriel, it could have been blocked and broken the ward if it is considered a use of the One Power.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:25 pm UTC

That occurred to me afterwards -- then dimochka broke my ward by trying to protect the same person I was protecting so that someone else could get in and kill SirGabriel.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:35 pm UTC

O.K. Bessie is tunnelling a little on her theories, but she is actively presenting theories and seems to be trying to figure things out. Against her is that JudeMorrigan (possibly inadvertently) moved a train away from her.

Dimochka claims having protected Sir Gabriel

Matt is cleared by Sir Gabriel's result from before, right?

Which leaves me with Gopher of Pern or Carlington as possible mafia. Gopher was voting for matt, which counts against him. Carlington presented a pretty impressive complete cop result, which sounds fairly townie.

So I guess my suspicion at the moment centers on Gopher of Pern.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:14 am UTC

In what way does Carlington's cop result make him towny?

I was the one hoping to lynch Sabrar when Madge was being lynched. But noooo, you had to get rid of madge.

Tell me, mpolo, when did you get recruited to Elaida's faction?
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:25 am UTC

OK, some things I’m thinking about.

Ter’angreal. I finally read the D5 flavor closely.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:“She’s alive, Leane, but I doubt for long, without help. Go and get some Yellow Sisters and bring one of the Tower’s angreal with you on the way back.
I’m not sure if angreal and ter’angreal are supposed to be the same thing or different things (they are on different pages in the Wiki). If I remember I will ask someone with flavor knowledge tomorrow.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Note who else championed the idea of corrupt ter-angreals? Sabrar.
No, he disagreed with my theory that the ter’angreal were under the control of the Black Ajah. This in retrospect would make me more convinced of my theory except for the D5 flavor post.

Gopher of Pern wrote:As for dim, I have no idea why your protection didn't work. Unless the final scum has an unblockable power? We've already gotten the roleblocker and the leader, the third one often has some sort of unblockability to them. (Yes, thats a word.)
I agree with this as a possibility.

dimochka wrote:Yes, my vig power was the One Power. I just don't exactly know the difference between One power and not One power...
Still pretty flavor blind but the way I understand it is One Power is something you use by channeling alone. So you can kill/investigate/protect etc using the One Power. See the role reveals for Madge, Sabrar, and SirGabriel; they were One Power users. The “not One Power” is from manipulating an object. See role reveal for JudeMorrigan; he was using a magic tablet to send his messages. Similarly, Madge wouldn’t have used the One Power to kill, she would have used the Ebony Dagger Ter’angreal. So if mpolo protected SirGabriel against One Power kills, he could have blocked a dimochka-One-Power-kill but not a Madge-dagger-kill.

[Note: role reveals for Diemo, ahippo do not say whether source of their game powers were the One Power or ter'angreal.]

mpolo wrote:I tried to ward SirGabriel from OnePower effects. Obviously, either it didn't work, or he was attacked by "other effects", despite the flavor indicating pretty clearly a One Power attack.
Agree that the flavor does suggest a One Power attack.

Theories:
1. SirGabriel was targeted with an unblockable kill.
2. Two kills targeted SirGabriel. One was blocked by dimochka, one bypassed mpolo’s protection.
3. dimochka is lying and did not protect SirGabriel, but tried to kill him with an object, which bypassed mpolo’s protection.
4. SirGabriel was poisoned N3 and it killed him N4.
5. SirGabriel tried to use a booby trapped ter’angreal and it killed him.

Gopher of Pern wrote:In what way does Carlington's cop result make him towny?
His power seems a bit strong for scum if it is an every night power. Interestingly, I have yet to see solid evidence his power wasn’t one-shot.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:08 am UTC

Possibility 6. My ward protects against any use of the One Power. Dimochka's protection was a One Power effect and was blocked by my ward, which was taken down by that protection (it protects one time and then is gone). Then someone came in and killed SirGabriel without having to bypass protection.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:41 am UTC

As to ter'angreals and angreals and san'agreals: they are (in the books) neutral. They let anybody focus the One Power in a certain way. Some ter'angreals can be used even by persons incapable of using the one power. I think the power order is ter'angreal < angreal < san'angreal. The tower has a large number of such devices, most of which are of unknown function. The black sisters stole only some of those (mostly suspected of dealing with dreaming), leaving plenty that an "inventor" role could hand out.

That doesn't mean that bessie has to be wrong in her theory, but it would explain the discrepancy between her theory and the results this morning.

That, and having received a ter'angreal with a supposed nice effect, which I am unable to choose not to use, I certainly hope that bessie's theory is wrong.

@GoP: Carlington is not completely off the hook, as far as I'm concerned, but you are more suspicious at the moment. I joined a faction the night before getting my power, I think N3, but I don't have time to check now.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:39 pm UTC

mpolo wrote: I joined a faction the night before getting my power, I think N3, but I don't have time to check now.

mpolo, please check and confirm you were recruited on N3.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:19 pm UTC

Yes, I was recruited N3.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:06 am UTC

Well it seems discussion has died down, so I guess it’s up to me. Here’s some thoughts.

I’m still struggling with reads, as I have been throughout this game. Early in the game, it was possibly because of all the unaligned players. At present it is probably because all of you now belong to a faction, and you are unwilling to share information, or even contribute scum hunting because you need to not only kill the last Black Ajah, you need to figure out how to kill the members of the other team. The revealed win conditions imply that Team Siuan and Team Elaida need to eliminate the other team’s leaders or maybe the entire team. If the latter is true, then we are in for a potentially long game if we kill Black and eliminate the night kill.

Win conditions
Spoiler:
Diemo
You win when all threats to the stability of the White Tower have been eliminated and a strong leader is in place.

Jude
His win condition was to control the leadership of the White Tower or to eliminate all other players (or if nothing could prevent that). His faction controls a night kill, but only after one of the faction members was killed. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

Sabrar
His win condition was to control the leadership of the White Tower or to eliminate all other players (or if nothing could prevent that). His faction controls a night kill, but only after one of the faction members was killed. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

SirGabriel
His win condition was to eliminate all threats to Elaida’s leadership (unaligned players are not threats). Each night, he could recruit an additional member, if a faction member was not lynched. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

ahippo
His win condition was to eliminate all threats to Elaida’s leadership (unaligned players are not threats). Each night, his faction could recruit an additional member, if a faction member was not lynched. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

Madge
Her win condition was to eliminate all threats to Siuan’s leadership (unaligned players are not threats). Each night, her faction could recruit an additional member, if a faction member was not lynched. Her faction did not have any chat abilities.

Team Siuan and Team Elaida members: you need to contribute to the discussion and decide this lynch. You all probably have enough information to determine everyone’s alignment. If you aren’t going to talk just vote already.

Last remaining scum: I think you made a mistake killing SirGabriel. You should have kept him alive so that you could play him and Siuan against each other. Now that he is dead you are Team Siuan’s main threat. If we fail to lynch you today your best chance of winning is to kill someone unaligned tonight, so that the remaining two factions continue to fight each other.

mpolo wrote:Possibility 6. My ward protects against any use of the One Power. Dimochka's protection was a One Power effect and was blocked by my ward, which was taken down by that protection (it protects one time and then is gone). Then someone came in and killed SirGabriel without having to bypass protection.
I don’t agree that dimochka’s ter’angreal was a One Power ability. But this is a guess, not something I know, and I may be wrong.

mpolo wrote:@GoP: Carlington is not completely off the hook, as far as I'm concerned, but you are more suspicious at the moment.
Why? Please explain your suspicions of Gopher of Pern. And Carlington. How about on everyone while you’re at it?

Carlington, you have one post to convince me not to vote for you. What is mpolo’s name?

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:14 am UTC

I actually explained my suspicions earlier in this day, but there's a lot of process of elimination there.

I am pretty certain that bessie, dimochka and matt are faithful sisters (exact alignment within the tower is unknown).

This leaves GopherofPern and Carlington.

Gopher was voting for matt yesterday. As I was too, until I tried at the last minute to change, this is not absolutely nefarious, but at least near day start, it seemed the strongest lead. Now, however, it has occurred to me that our ter'angreal hander-outer is pretty definitively in that two person group. Bessie has been harping on the ter'angreal too much, and trying to cast them as evil, so that it seems very unlikely that she would be the hander-outer. Dimochka and I have both received ter'angreal, and matt has demonstrated his power.

If Carlington really has the cop, then Gopher is the ter'angreal hander-outer. And I think the ter'angreal are "good" (otherwise I received an unblockable attack on me that I know has happened and that I can do nothing about, which seems wrong). And that has me swaying toward Carlington being the last scum.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:06 am UTC

Busy weekend for me, this is my first chance to check. mpolo is Robecca Zariah. And, while we're at it, will the real Celestine Principia please stand up?

I am starting to suspect that my power doesn't show me if someone is Black Ajah - I have enough results from that and from other sources (flips, recruitments) that it seems unlikely. Unless, as others have said, there's no Black Ajah left. But that fails to explain last night's kill. Unless the kill is poisoning instead? Or the kill goes ahead regardless of being lynched?? I think the former makes more sense, especially when taking the failed warding into account.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:26 pm UTC

My name is correct.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby matt96 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:58 pm UTC

Mpolo, is there a reason why you aren't explicitly stating that you were recruited into Elaida's faction? Madge's lynch should have prevented Siuan's faction from recruiting the night you claim to have been recruited.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:53 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:I am starting to suspect that my power doesn't show me if someone is Black Ajah

It doesn’t matter what color you get for your result if you get alignment. All the Black Ajah members have a cover color anyway. Reminder, you previously claimed this:
Carlington wrote:Apparently, though, what I claimed may not have been what I meant. According to mafiawiki, normally rolecop just gets the role name, nothing else. Is that the case? Because I get the entire role as a result - name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment.

You did get a town read on mpolo, didn’t you?
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town? Note that mpolo claims he was recruited N3. Don't forget to cover that when you answer.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:01 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town? Note that mpolo claims he was recruited N3. Don't forget to cover that when you answer.

Funny that we just (correctly) lynched sabrar for this exact reason.

We already know mpolo is town from the actions preceding d2. So unless black ajah can recruit, which does not seem in any way likely, mpolo is still town. Also what he mentioned before regarding the role distribution makes sense to me. GoP - are you the one sending items out?

I don't think we're in terrible risk right now. We're at 6 alive, 4 to lynch. Now if I understand correctly, matt and mpolo are essentially confirmed town. I'm not confirmed but pretty close to that. Do we have any specific proof as to the towniness of GoP / Bessie / Carlington? As far as I see it we can mislynch once (not that I want to do that) and still be ok, and especially so if there's a way to keep matt alive.

My pick for scum is currently Carlington, but I'll get to some more analysis over the next 24 hours (probably not earlier than Sunday afternoon though)
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:12 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I am starting to suspect that my power doesn't show me if someone is Black Ajah

It doesn’t matter what color you get for your result if you get alignment. All the Black Ajah members have a cover color anyway. Reminder, you previously claimed this:
Carlington wrote:Apparently, though, what I claimed may not have been what I meant. According to mafiawiki, normally rolecop just gets the role name, nothing else. Is that the case? Because I get the entire role as a result - name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment.

You did get a town read on mpolo, didn’t you?
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town? Note that mpolo claims he was recruited N3. Don't forget to cover that when you answer.


So, my results give me name, power, Ajah, wincon, and alignment, like I said - but if I can draw your attention to Sabrar and JudeMorrigan's flips, notice that both of them had "X of Black Ajah, ostensibly of Y Ajah". So when I say I'm unsure, what I mean is that I'm starting to think it's possible I only get to see the ostensible Ajah. Now, because of when I carried out these investigations, the results I have wrt. alignment are two "unaligned Aes Sedai of $ajah" one "leader of the supporters of $faction" and one "supporter of $leader". Given the amount of recruitment and different factional alignments things happening, I am wondering whether it wouldn't be OP to get the rest of the info - what if I'm only getting the alignment as concerns Siuan/Elaida?
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:42 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:Busy weekend for me, this is my first chance to check. mpolo is Robecca Zariah. And, while we're at it, will the real Celestine Principia please stand up?
So matt and dimochka, which of you is Celestine Principia? It must be one of you since except for N1, it seems like Carlington only investigates confirmed town.

N1: bessie
N2: SirGabriel
N3: mpolo
N4: unknown

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town?
Carlington, why can’t I get a straight answer to this question? And what exactly were your results for mpolo (name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment)?

dimochka wrote:We already know mpolo is town from the actions preceding d2. So unless black ajah can recruit, which does not seem in any way likely, mpolo is still town.
Yes I know. Carlington investigated him N3. I’m interested in his results.

dimochka wrote: Now if I understand correctly, matt and mpolo are essentially confirmed town. I'm not confirmed but pretty close to that. Do we have any specific proof as to the towniness of GoP / Bessie / Carlington?
No, we do not have any proof of the towniness of Gopher of Pern, bessie, or Carlington. Carlington copped me but if I were you I wouldn’t accept that as proof. One person in this group of three is Black Ajah and one is probably Siuan Sanche. If a wagon starts on Siuan their teammates should jump in and save them.

dimochka wrote:As far as I see it we can mislynch once (not that I want to do that) and still be ok, and especially so if there's a way to keep matt alive.
mpolo has a protective power. But he’s in Elaida’s faction so it might not be in his best interests to save matt.

Approximately 24 hours until deadline. I’m working on a longer post.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:34 pm UTC

Somewhat random thoughts.

This has been the worst game for someone of my limited scum hunting ability. I’m not a good scum hunter. All my reads are for “technical” reasons. I don’t do behavior reads or have gut instincts. Or if I try I usually get it wrong (examples from Secret Santa: correct scum read on kalira for errors in content, incorrect scum read on emlightened for gut feeling of buddying kalira). There has been very little sharing of information this game, and we don’t have a lot to share anyway, with both tracker/watcher powers dead.

Accordingly, with no results to analyze I need to keep returning to the flavor: filps, ter’angreal, etc. The writing style of the roles reveals changed on D3, and I’m not sure if it was deliberate or coincidence or if I’m focusing on something irrelevant, but as I already stated I don’t have a lot to analyze so I need to work with what I’ve been given. I’ve already pointed this out here. Source of game powers for Diemo, ahippo, and JudeMorrigan was not given in their roles. The flavor implied that the source Jude’s power was ter’angreal. Source of game powers for Madge, Sabrar, SirGabriel was given as the One Power. I wasn’t thinking about this as much until Madge’s role reveal, which clearly differentiates between One Power and other abilities. This leads me to believe that the source of the ter’angreal is important, and will tell us if they are true or false.

Ter’angreal recipients
N1: Sabrar, one-shot faction cop
N2: Madge, one-shot kill
N3: dimochka, one-shot any-kill protection
N4: mpolo, unknown

From publicly available information, I see no proof the ter’angreal are true. Only a known Black Ajah claimed to use one successfully, and there is no proof dimochka’s was true. Hmm, this list makes me wonder if Sabrar was false recruited. It would make many things, but not all, fall into place.


What else am I thinking about? JudeMorrigan, killed N2. Kills usually resolve last so someone should have received a note. Why didn’t anyone receive a note N2? Maybe Jude’s target was protected by moody/Madge. Or someone did receive a note and for some reason didn’t want to reveal it (did the contents not help the receiver’s faction?).


Moving on, this post from D1 still bothers me.
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:This looks like he is unsure about who his enemies are, which indicates Town. Eagerly awaiting more content.
It looks to me like you are trying really hard to find a reason to stick the town label on Carlington.

...

Carlington – First post, has RL issues flavor/setup spec. Second post, 3 sentences explaining that he’s been too busy to read the thread. So, zero real content, but oddly enough content for Sabrar to label him town.


Next thing I’m thinking about is this D2 post by me. This is a D2 reads list, where I note that JudeMorrigan and Sabrar are reading SirGabriel and Gopher of Pern as a team (belief shared by bessie due to GoP and SirGabriel tunneling on bessie). Just bookmarking this for now.


N3 there was no kill. Why?
Scum withheld. Unlikely.
Scum was roleblocked. Unlikely, roleblocker was scum and no unaccounted for ter’angreal.
Madge/moody protected target on N1 or N2. Possible if target was Siuan.
Doctor protected target. Possible.
Target is bulletproof. Possible.
Delayed kill (poison, etc.). Possible if target was SirGabriel.

Now that I’m writing out this list, I wonder if scum did have a reason to withhold the kill N3. I can probably come up with a couple if I think about it hard enough.


And because I don’t want to blindly stick the town label on dimochka, I tried to look for some evidence of his alignment. All I could come up with is maybe this is a reason for Black!dimochka to kill JudeMorrigan

His faction controls a night kill, but only after one of the faction members was killed.


but that seems like a dumb reason so OK dimochka is not Black Ajah.

Well, I've got more but I don't want to be selfish and monopolize the thread. Anyone else interested in posting?

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:44 am UTC

bessie wrote:
bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town?
Carlington, why can’t I get a straight answer to this question? And what exactly were your results for mpolo (name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment)?
By "town" I mean "not Black Ajah", which is the way the word has been used the rest of this game. I think that question is disingenuous. Of course, I claimed that before I began to wonder whether someone's membership of the Black Ajah might not show up in my results. So now I'm not as sure in my claims that my results show people being town.
I wonder why it is that you want all the details of my result on mpolo. Should I claim the details of my result on you instead? Does it matter which player it is that I claim my results on? (Excepting SirG, natch) Or is there something about mpolo in particular you want to know?
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:02 am UTC

Sure. I’ll call. You may claim your result on me.

And yes, there is something in particular that I want to know about your result on mpolo. And I think you will avoid replying to my request by using the excuse you don’t want to post it without mpolo’s permission.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:05 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:Busy weekend for me, this is my first chance to check. mpolo is Robecca Zariah. And, while we're at it, will the real Celestine Principia please stand up?
So matt and dimochka, which of you is Celestine Principia? It must be one of you since except for N1, it seems like Carlington only investigates confirmed town.

As a quick response to this:
I genuinely keep missing the fact that mpolo was confirmed by receiving Jude's message and I keep having to go back and check why. I blame that happening during a period of game when I had very little time and was not paying due attention. The rest of the players I have investigated, I don't believe they were confirmed town at that point in time. I investigated you bc N1 I had to pick someone, SirG because the whole "I am Spartacus" thing re: claiming Elaida and Siuan confused the hell out of me and I wanted an answer, and last night's target because I think there's no remaining scum and I am trying to figure out who is aligned where so I know the best way to win.

Ninja'd and now mad curious about what you want to know about mpolo. Since I don't think there's scum anymore I think it's safe enough to claim your result: Helena Itawa, Yellow Ajah, doctor, unaligned N1 (I have no way to know about after then).
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:08 am UTC

Screw it, I don't believe that there's scum anymore anyway so:
mpolo's claim was true, he was Accepted/Universal Backup. As at my result (N3) he hadn't chosen a power. He's aligned with Elaida Sedai.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:34 am UTC

So what’s my wincon?

So I did a quick skim of the D2 timeline, between SirGabriels’s claim to be Siuan Sanche and the end of the day. Here’s who posted.
Spoiler:
1/31/17 5:56 am PST SirGabriel claims to be Siuan Sanche.
Sabrar
SirG
JudeMorragan doesn’t believe him, votes SirG
mpolo
Jude
mpolo
SirG
Sabrar votes Jude
Gopher of Pern does not fully believe the claim
Jude
GoP would lynch SirG or ahippo
Jude votes ahippo
matt
SirG
Madge (still catching up)
Madge
bessie votes SirG for reason unrelated to claim
Madge (still confused)
bessie
Sabrar unvotes
mpolo votes ahippo

2/1/17 1:56 am PST ahippo claims SirG is lying, claims Elaida supporter, votes SirG
Sabrar
Sabrar
ahippo
GoP would vote SirG or ahippo
Sabrar
Sabrar
Madge votes SirG
Madge
Sabrar votes ahippo

[Somewhere between 1:56 and 4:08 (my time) is where Carlington claims to have submitted his night action]

Quick things: I can confirm SirG's claim, due to being a rolecop and targeting her last night (I submitted my target after ahippo denied SirG's claim, but before SirG changed her claim - not that you have any reason to believe that, barring my inactivity).


2/1/17 4:08 am PST SirG changes his claim to Elaida
Sabrar
Sabrar
ahippo
Madge
Sabrar votes SirG
Sabrar
ahippo
ahippo
Sabrar
dimochka

2/1/17 11:58 am PST jimbobmacdoodle calls deadline

So why didn't you post in the thread if you were on line and following the game?

Ninja’d by Carlington.

Celestine Principia, were you unaligned on N4?

Carlington wrote:Now, because of when I carried out these investigations, the results I have wrt. alignment are two "unaligned Aes Sedai of $ajah" one "leader of the supporters of $faction" and one "supporter of $leader".

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Quick post before I get back into reading mode - I guess Matt has to be Celestia because I'm Wilhelmina Fantim.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:55 am UTC

dimochka wrote:Quick post before I get back into reading mode - I guess Matt has to be Celestia because I'm Wilhelmina Fantim.

Nice. Oh wait, I guess Gopher of Pern can be Celestine.
Carlington wrote:The rest of the players I have investigated, I don't believe they were confirmed town at that point in time.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:21 am UTC

I'm not Celestine.

I have been giving out the ter'angreal. And unless the mod has lied to me, they should all work. I have no reason to believe that they do not work.

Vote: mpolo

They are bulletproof, so they cannot die during the night, so the only way to kill them is to vote for them.

This is what you get for following the false one!
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:14 am UTC

Gopher - at which point did you join Siuan? Or were you an original member? I might've missed it.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:47 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm not Celestine.
I didn’t think you were. But your response just made things a lot more interesting.

Gopher of Pern wrote:This is what you get for following the false one!
So Gopher of Pern, who is the “you” in that comment? Is it a general you, or are you addressing someone in particular? Or are you being sarcastic and referring to yourself?

Carlington, did you investigate matt last night? If yes, please explain why you lied here:
Carlington wrote:The rest of the players I have investigated, I don't believe they were confirmed town at that point in time.
Oh, and what’s my wincon?

matt, are you going to lurk or post?


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