Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

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Gopher of Pern
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:21 am UTC

The you is mpolo.

I'm not claiming whether I was original or not.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:12 am UTC

bessie wrote:Carlington, did you investigate matt last night? If yes, please explain why you lied here:
Carlington wrote:The rest of the players I have investigated, I don't believe they were confirmed town at that point in time.
Oh, and what’s my wincon?
As per the nightless nature of the game, I have been submitting my actions before deadline. Ergo, Sabrar hadn't flipped yet when I submitted, and I could not have changed after Sabrar's flip.

As for wincon, on checking again I see that I don't have one for you or for Matt, both of whom were unaligned when I investigated them. SirG's matches his flip. mpolo "wins when all threats to Elaida's leadership have been eliminated". He can confirm that, but given that I just outed him to his enemies he may feel inclined not to do so I guess. I'm on the bus, I want to get home and bust out my whiteboard before I throw a vote out - I've got some tallying to do.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:46 am UTC

From the power, I suspect that Gopher of Pern is Siuan. She would be the one with access to the ter'angreal and the right to hand them out.

I think that means that *if* there is a black, it has to be Carlington. What I don't know is whether it is to the interest of my faction to root out Black right now or remove a Siuan supporter so as to have a chance of winning. But I think that we've got an awful lot of protection going around tonight.

Vote: Gopher of Pern
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby mpolo » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:49 am UTC

As I started Unaligned, I can say that the Unaligned wincon is the one that the Mod sent out to everyone after the initial PMs.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:00 am UTC

There was very little trust left between the different Sisters. Most threw accusations and insults at each other whilst some of the younger Sisters stood back and watched on. Would any agreement come?

Votals:

mpolo(1): Gopher of Pern
Gopher of Pern(1): mpolo

Not voting: Carlington, dimochka, bessie, matt96

Soft deadline is 8pm UTC today, Monday 20th February, approximately 11 hours from now. Please submit your night actions before then.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:03 pm UTC

Well to be honest I don’t think I want any of you to win. My reasons for not siding with any of the teams:

Team Elaida
SirGabriel- Tunneled on me D1 and D2. And on D3 until he needed to try another tactic to save ahippo. So he was tunneling on me, whatever, but he kept refusing to answer my questions as to why exactly he thought I was scummy which was annoying because you can’t defend yourself if you don’t know why you’re being attacked.
ahippo- Lurked all through D1 by reading old games instead of posting in the current one, then voted for me for a dumb reason. Wasted a great deal of my time on D2 trying to explain to him why a doctor/roleblocker shouldn’t claim, and distracted from scum hunting.
mpolo- I don’t have any problem with him right now.

Team Siuan
Gopher of Pern- Another player that kept tunneling on me throughout the entire game. At least on D1 and D2 he gave a reason, he didn’t like my setup spec because I had a recruiter in it. D3 tries to pair me in to a scum team. D4 doesn’t like my updated setup spec because I have false recruiters, and has some theory as to why I am the most likely scum but he never presents it.
moody7277- I have no problem with moody in this game, I still am interested in finding out where he thinks I may have used outside information unreasonably.
Madge- Sorry about letting you be lynched. I knew you or Sabrar was scum.

Team Black Ajah
JudeMorrigan- Accidentally saved me from the lynch D1. I’ve been trying to get killed ever since.
Sabrar- It’s complicated. :)
Carlington- Has been supporting my towniness throughout the entire game until D5, where he starts setting up a reason to turn on me. I suspect he oversold his role to appear more townie, because almost all the information he claims to have received is public knowledge. My biggest problem with Carlington is that I keep asking him questions and I feel like he is insulting my intelligence with his answers. Not that I’ve shown a great deal of intelligence in this game.

Unfortunately, I can’t win with Black, so it has to be one of the others. Now I kinda wish dimochka was a militant atheist.

dimochka, matt, are you still unaligned? If you are, I think we need to eliminate one of the factions so that we don’t get recruited into rival factions, and lynch Carlington tomorrow. If you are aligned, which faction are you in? Please answer within the next hour. I have to go to work.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:25 pm UTC

May as well. I'm in Elaida with mpolo.

I don't know if this works but:

vote gopher
unvote
vote carlington


I believe carlington is the biggest threat to us as he's most likely black ajah. gopher for me is secondary. with that being said, if this somehow ends with 1 vote each, i'd prefer to support my faction-mate as this way gopher had 2 votes first (as i said - no idea if this is valid per game rules).

I was thinking of staying quiet and hope gopher would try to recruit me, but i think it's just going to get too confusing at this point.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:42 pm UTC

Can we have the official votals?

dimochka, it doesn’t matter to me which team wins if I am unaligned. My concern is that I will be recruited tonight, and the two teams will still need to fight it out. If we leave Carlington alive, we will have a clear lynch target tomorrow. But leaving Carlington alive is a risk because we can't be certain of his real powers.

dimochka, mpolo, are you sure your team can still win without Elaida alive? If Elaida and Siuan are dead, then does Black win because there is no strong leader?

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:05 pm UTC

we were told that leadership transfers down to someone in the faction as long as one of us is alive, so yes.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:17 pm UTC

Well shit, I just don’t have time to ponder and reevaluate the wincons and decide for myself if an Elaida supporter can be considered a Strong Leader, thus preventing a Black Ajah win. And I don’t really trust any of you right now, I hope you see my point of view as to why.

I’m probably going to be in a meeting until at least 11:00 am PST. matt, do you have anything to add? Hurry up, I should have left already.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:29 pm UTC

Ok here's why you should side with Elaida:
- I'm pretty certain that neither bessie nor matt are in Siuan, else they would have (probably) already showed some preference to GoP.
- Based on what we know from how recruiting works, GoP is Siuan and has at most one more member.
(a) IF GoP doesn't have more members in his team then we have more people and are more likely to win, so just vote with us regardless.

(b) If GoP has more members, that member is Carlington. Carlington is almost definitely mafia, which means (I think?) that Siuan can't win with him alive, so they're hurt by that off the bat. Plus if GoP is lynched and Carlington gets the faction recruit, I really can't figure out what exactly he'd do, but anyone he recruits would still need him dead which really complicates things.

If we lynch carlington, GoP will try to recruit matt due to his double vote. So will we. I have no clue how that gets resolved. Assuming it fails, we lynch GoP and hopefully this means that everyone unaligned wins with Elaida. Unfortunately due to the way ties get resolved, we can't recruit bessie because then GoP would get matt and we'd have equal number of votes and it would be a win for whomever is online first (unless there's some kind of an exception for when black ajah is out of the picture? I'm fine with a tie, but I can see it making no sense with the flavor...)
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby bessie » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:06 pm UTC

Vote Carlington

It's too much of a risk keeping him alive.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:45 pm UTC

As the sun started to dip below the horizon, each of the different women present began to claim where their real loyalties lay. But could everyone be believed? Was there still a threat from the Black Ajah to deal with? Was there any hope of finding unity amongst the different points of view?

Votals:

mpolo(1): Gopher of Pern
Gopher of Pern(1): mpolo
Carlington(2): dimochka, bessie

Not voting: Carlington, matt96

Soft deadline is 8pm UTC today, Monday 20th February, approximately 1 and 1/4 hour from now. Please submit your night actions before then.

In response to dimochka's confusion, the tied vote rule only applies for continuous vote totals of the tied amount or higher. Once a player drops below the number, they are no longer considered as having reached that number. In other words, dimochka's attempt to put Gopher of Pern ahead in the tie for 2 votes did not work because he was no longer at 2 votes or higher once dimochka unvoted. Were e.g. Carlington to vote for mpolo now, Carlington would be lynched. However, if dimochka then switched his vote from Carlington to Gopher, mpolo would be lynched. Apologies if this is unclear. Please let me know if you need any specific examples explained.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:29 pm UTC

ok small correction. if carlington is in Siuan, Siuan can't recruit tonight and we'll outnumber them off the bat, so here's what works best.

1. lynch carlington
1a. if carlington is in Siuan and scum, GoP can't recruit. We recruit matt to control vote, lynch GoP, bessie wins with us (confirmed).
1b. if Carlington is not in Siuan but scum, GoP tries to recruit matt tonight and we do too. I assume this recruit fails (i really hope it doesn't somehow kill recruit else I'm really sorry matt). Then we have 2 votes, GoP has one, and bessie/matt hopefully side with us but it's really a kingmaker situation for the unaligned.
1c. if Carlington is not scum, I have no idea. reevaluate. thoughts welcome.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:52 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:bessie wins with us (confirmed).

That is assuming that bessie's win con is the unaligned win con that I had when I started the game.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby matt96 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:58 pm UTC

sounds good, but I'm of the opinion that carlington is more likely to flip Siuan/Not scum, simply because of him having found out that Bessie is a Doctor, and Bessie not being the first scum Night Kill. If something suggests that moody warded Bessie before getting lynched, I'd have similar confidence in carlington being scum.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:02 pm UTC

matt96 wrote:sounds good, but I'm of the opinion that carlington is more likely to flip Siuan/Not scum, simply because of him having found out that Bessie is a Doctor, and Bessie not being the first scum Night Kill. If something suggests that moody warded Bessie before getting lynched, I'd have similar confidence in carlington being scum.

Who do you think is scum then?
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:11 pm UTC

So, you would seek to depose the only strong leader here?

Elaida is stilled. She cannot be the strong leader.

I am the rightful Amyrlin. I find it disappointing, but not unexpected, that you would all be swayed both those of a weak will.

After all I've done to help you....
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:14 pm UTC

As the last of the sun's light faded behind the horizon, the Sisters jumped as a great "bong" rang out, as though a great bell had been rung inside the library. Quickly steeling themselves, the Sisters looked around at each other. A decision had to be made. Two voices called to take away one of the Sisters. There was little protest from the others, and so one of the two, trussed the one they were accusing up in weaves of Air, whilst the other threw a shield up in protest. The woman did not utter a word of protest, and instead showed a face of calmness as she was led away. The remaining three went their separate ways.

Carlington has been lynched. Day 5 is now over.

Votals:

mpolo(1): Gopher of Pern
Gopher of Pern(1): mpolo
Carlington(2): dimochka, bessie

Night will last for approximately 2 hours from now. Please submit night actions before then, if you have not done so already.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (N5)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:14 pm UTC

Day 6 - A Fallen Amyrlin
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The Amyrlin Seat sat at her desk, reading the latest report brought to her by Leane about supplies and stocks in the Tower’s storerooms. It was a good chance for her to take a break from talk of Black Ajah and the Dragon Reborn. She knew that she wouldn’t be able to distance herself from these topics for long, but any break from the darker sides of her responsibilities was welcome. Not that the report was exactly good news. There were plenty of supplies for now, and the Tower’s Keeping wards seemed to be just about holding, but there had been reports of unusual bouts of food spoiling out in the city of Tar Valon.

She put down her report and leant back in her chair. How would she go about questioning the latest occupant of the Tower’s cells? Sylestra had provided no useful information, and was to go up for trial later in the day, ahead of her likely stilling and execution.

Siuan sat up as she felt a burst of One Power energy coming from the Keeper’s office. It was a lot more powerful than whatever Leane would be up to. Just as she stood up to investigate, the solid oak door of her study flew off its hinges. As a crowd of figures began to file in, all with the glow of the Source surrounding them, she tried to grasp saidar herself, but it was like slamming into a brick wall. She was shielded!

The other women, all wearing the shawls of their Ajahs, spread out into a semi-circle around her, and one figure strode in front, her red shawl firmly sat on her shoulders.

“You look surprised to see me,” Elaida said to the woman in front of her. “The Healing power of those Yellows combined with that angreal you so kindly provided is quite amazing, isn’t it?”

The Red Sister walked up to Siuan and pulled the striped stole of the Amyrlin off Siuan. “Your time as Amyrlin is at an end Siuan Sanche. The Hall of the Tower were most agreeable when your little team presented their results to them early this morning, thanks especially to Wilhelmina and Robecca here,” she continued indicating the two familiar women stood either side of her. I believe that my own evidence of your attempts to control and manipulate the so-called Dragon Reborn without informing the Hall was also deemed significant.”

“This is completely outrageous,” Siuan shouted at the figure before her. “You have no right!”

“Oh, I most certainly do, and there is nothing you can do to stop me. Take her away.”

Weaves of Air reached out and seized hold of her arms and legs, and she was lifted up and hauled out of her study.

As the others left the room, Elaida walked round the former Amyrlin’s desk and lowered herself into the chair. That it would be hers was now only a matter of formality.


Elaida’s faction now controls the lynch and the Black Ajah has been eliminated, so game over.

Congratulations to SirGabriel, ahippo, dimochka, mpolo, and matt96 (recruited N5) who have won as Elaida’s faction has seized control of the White Tower. In addition, since Elaida has control without influence from the Black Ajah, all unaligned players have also won, so congratulations to bessie and Diemo.

Thanks for playing everyone!

Full role reveals of all remaining players to follow shortly. If you have any questions about the game mechanics, I’m more than happy to answer as well.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:27 pm UTC

Congrats to all winners!

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:41 pm UTC

Carlington was Oliviana Cariop, ostensibly an Aes Sedai of the BlueRed Ajah (I only just realised that I made a mistake in Carlington's original role PM!) and supporter of Siuan Sanche as Amyrlin, but actually the acting leader of the Black Ajah. Role info:
Spoiler:
His win condition was to control the leadership of the White Tower or to eliminate all other players (or if nothing could prevent that). His faction controlled a night kill, but only after one of the faction members was killed. This night kill could either be by using the One Power or by not using the One Power. His faction did not have any chat abilities.

Each night he could use the One Power to investigate one player and would be informed of their role and their alignment.
For the record, I considered character name and win con as part of role and alignment respectively.

Gopher of Pern was Siuan Sanche, Amyrlin Seat of the White Tower, and leader of Siuan's supporters. Role Info:
Spoiler:
His win condition was to eliminate all threats to her leadership of the White Tower (i.e. the Black Ajah and Elaida's supporters). He controlled a nightly recruit that could not be used if a faction member was lynched that day. His faction had no chat abilities.

Each night, he could give one of the Tower's angreal or ter'angreal out to another player. Each item gave the player a one-use ability. The different items were the Obsidian Disk angreal which made the user's ability unblockable, the Quartz Diviner ter'angreal, which gave the user a cop ability, the Ivory Statue ter'angreal, which gave the user a doctor ability, the Granite Ring ter'angreal, which made the user bulletproof to the next kill they were targeted with, and the Ebony Dagger ter'angreal which granted the user a kill.
bessie was Helena Itawa, unaligned Aes Sedai of the Yellow Ajah. Role Info:
Spoiler:
She won when all threats to the stability of the White Tower were eliminated and a strong leader in place. Each night she could use a modified version of the One Power talent of Healing to protect a single player from being night killed.
To clarify, the unaligned win condition meant simply that the Black Ajah was eliminated. Had both recruiting factions been eliminated as well, she still would still have won, as long as the Black Ajah did not meet their primary win condition of gaining control of one of the recruiting factions and eliminating the other.

matt96 was Celestine Principia, Aes Sedai of the Grey Ajah, and supporter of Elaida for the Amyrlin Seat (having been recruited on N5). Role Info:
Spoiler:
As a supporter of Elaida, he would win when Siuan's supporters and the Black Ajah were eliminated.

His vote counted as two votes, and was announced publicly in the votals.
dimochka was Wilhelmina Fantim, Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah, and acting leader of Elaida's supporters. Role Info:
Spoiler:
As a supporter of Elaida, he would win when Siuan's supporters and the Black Ajah were eliminated.

Once per game, he could kill a single player at night.
mpolo was Robecca Zariah, Accepted of the White Tower, and a supporter of Elaida for the Amyrlin Seat. Role Info:
Spoiler:
As a supporter of Elaida, he would win when Siuan's supporters and the Black Ajah were eliminated.

He began the game with no ability. However, at any point in the game, he could choose to assume the ability of any previously killed or lynched player. He chose to gain the moody/Madge's power of warding against either One Power or non-One Power abilities.


Every night, each player received a flavour PM, even if they had nothing of note happen to them at night. In addition, everybody's original role PM included a blob of flavour. I'm not going to write the full set here, but you can check it all out in the Google Drive folder I used to keep track of everything available here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bw5WS2X8VxhoZFNmSk1FdFNzbTg You can also see what happened regarding individual night actions on one of the respective tabs.

I made some minor changes to the roles as we were finalising the setup. In retrospect, I might have stuck with my original plan with dimochka's role, namely to make it able to kill people on the lynch wagon in the event of a mislynch, to speed things up slightly. I also should not have revealed that Jude couldn't send messages to Black Ajah members. Otherwise, I'm happy enough with how things went, apart from all the small mistakes I made, especially the initial victory condition fiasco.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby ahippo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:32 am UTC

Great work guys! I think dimochka was the true hero of the Elaida faction. I'm amazed that what happened on D2 didn't completely destroy any chance we had. It might have even helped to get it all out there? Maybe I'm reaching. I want to feel not useless.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:34 am UTC

Well played!

I must say, this was one of the most exciting games I've played. I just could not recruit to save my life!

So, was Carlington red? I thought he was blue? I was going to call him out on that, but thought it's best if we work together for the meantime.

I was heavily suspicious of Carlington the day after I recruited him. If they were on my team, it would have been easy to control the game from there. But Madge was lynched, which lost the NK I was hoping to use against Elaida / SirGabriel, which threw me.

ahippo: I did not recruit a single neutral person! But yes, I was gunning hard for you D2 because I knew you were either black or Elaida.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Carlington » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:36 am UTC

I don't even care about the loss, that was fun! I wonder whether my "no scum left" lie would have held more water if I withheld the kill the night preceding. Still, that would leave me dealing with another Investigative role and it was too risky.
bessie, I'm sorry you found this so frustrating. I feel a little bad about manipulating you into protecting scum!me. No hard feelings I hope.

Good game all! Many great examples of players using the wrong logic to get the right results.

Double Ninja! Yeah was I red or blue? My role PM definitely says red but other players called me blue.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:38 am UTC

In my recruit pm you were blue.

That would have been awkward had it come up!
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Carlington » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:46 am UTC

Missed opportunity! Although I think by that point it would have hurt you more to push my lynch.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby SirGabriel » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:56 am UTC

Definitely an interesting setup, but from my perspective there was way too much misinformation. Flavor says there was no Black Ajah, plus scum initially had no kill power, and it was already clearly an unusual setup, so I genuinely thought that there was no mafia and that ahippo's death would leave Siuan free to recruit matt and practically guarantee a Siuan victory.

Also, bessie, sorry for not recruiting you, but if I had recruited you and GoP managed to get you mislynched, it would have cost me the game.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby dimochka » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:31 am UTC

ahippo wrote:Great work guys! I think dimochka was the true hero of the Elaida faction.

Thank you, but no way I could've done it without the rest of the team. Having mpolo confirmed was a huge help. If mpolo wasn't in my team AND confirmed by the notes, I would've probably pushed a lynch on him this last day. Because how likely is the fact that my protection removed his protection (or vice versa, I don't even know).. Also I apparently just in general do better when there isn't just a town and scum team, but a mix of a couple of teams fighting for the win.

ahippo wrote:I'm amazed that what happened on D2 didn't completely destroy any chance we had. It might have even helped to get it all out there? Maybe I'm reaching. I want to feel not useless.

I was worried that me protecting you would look terrible, so I didn't even try. Sorry! And to be perfectly honest I was really confused. The real heroes are the people who kind of explained flavor to me, and probably GoP for recruiting Carlington. Had it been the other way around, I doubt Elaida would've won.

I'm also still not completely sure why I decided bessie wasn't scum. No actual proof but at some point I just assumed she wasn't against me.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Madge » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:52 am UTC

Thanks for a good game guys! The confusion about the win cons was excelelnt.

My favouriet thing was factions but no chat. I think that's an awesome wrinkle.

Well designed, Jimbob!
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby mpolo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:08 am UTC

This game was a lot of fun. I had feared that I had gotten recruited into a losing cause and then failed to hide it very well at all. It hadn't occured to me that a black might count as a Siuan supporter for purposes of blocking her recruit -- that would have made a Carlington vote more palatable for me.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby bessie » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:43 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle, this was one of the most fun or one of the most miserable games I have ever played. Or possibly both. Not receiving that second role pm before I made my initial post kinda screwed me up. But at least there was the exhilaration at the end of D1 when I could say whatever the hell I wanted because I was getting lynched anyway.

JudeMorrigan, I hope you don’t get discouraged and you decide to play again. I think you played very well. Your read of ahippo was really quite remarkable. And you were townie enough that both moody and I protected you N1. I’m not sure how dimochka picked you out as scum so quickly (SDK does the same thing) because I sure don’t have that magic. I just keep playing and hoping some of it will eventually rub off on me.

SirGabriel that was incredibly clever play by you on D2. I wouldn’t have ever been able to pull that off. I hope we’re on the same team next time because I think I will never be able to read you. Incredible job by you and your team.

Carlington, tsk tsk, there shall be future trust issues between you and me.

jimbob, I still don’t understand the two types of abilities mentioned in Madge’s role PM. Were the ter’angreals One Power abilities or not? I'll probably have more questions after I have a chance to reread everything. Remember, I'm that annoying whywhywhy kid.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby dimochka » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:45 am UTC

bessie wrote:JudeMorrigan, I hope you don’t get discouraged and you decide to play again. I think you played very well. Your read of ahippo was really quite remarkable. And you were townie enough that both moody and I protected you N1. I’m not sure how dimochka picked you out as scum so quickly (SDK does the same thing) because I sure don’t have that magic. I just keep playing and hoping some of it will eventually rub off on me.

I'm pretty sure I did that exact same thing as scum as what Jude did (the 2nd vote), got called out for it, and lynched. And I was racking my brain trying to figure out how this was indicative of scum. And then seen other people do the same thing. If I had to guess, a townie just randomly votes for someone who hasn't been voted for, while scum kinda wants to "prove" townieness by making this joke that HEY I CAN PUT A SECOND VOTE, BUT I'LL REMOVE IT, I'M TOWN. It feels like trying too hard to fit in. Totally baseless and yet seems to work.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:04 am UTC

I'm glad you all enjoyed the game. I had a lot of fun designing and running it. I forgot to say this earlier, but thank you kalira and SDK for co-modding. If it hadn't been for them, this game would have been horribly unbalanced and would have had even more mistakes on my part!

I also want to acknowledge LaserGuy who suggested a great idea that I probably would have followed had it come to that, namely having a secret alternative win condition hinted at clearly in the flavour in the event of a statement, namely No Lynch for the win. I just liked the flavour idea behind it.

Carlington was supposed to be Blue Ajah, and everything in my notes and PMs to other players had him as such. However, at the end of the game I noticed that in the original role PMs, I'd accidentally put him down as Red. When he claimed in thread, I just assumed that he was false claiming for some strange reason and didn't think to double check! I like to think I might have noticed and corrected it if it had turned out to be an issue. Just one of several mistakes I made. Modding a game of this complexity requires paying extra attention to what you are doing apparently.

All abilities, including the ter'angreal were either One Power abilities or not. Examples of some that weren't included the recruits, Diemo's investigative ability and the act of giving out ter'angreal. The ter'angreal were One Power abilities and the Black Ajah kill could be either.

Sorry bessie that you got so frustrated. In the end, I couldn't see a way of making the game mechanics in this setting work without having a lot of flavour knowledge. In retrospect, In retrospect, I probably should have stated this up front.

SirGabriel's misleading flavour was deliberately so. At game start, I wanted each of the two cults to only know about one other faction, and at this point in the timeline, Elaida was convinced that there was no Black Ajah, so that worked as the perfect pretexr, hence the flavour.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:21 am UTC

I know I'm being terribly biased here, but I think scum had several weaknesses. Not being able to coordinate, not knowing what abilities the others have, not even knowing the identity of the third member in our team was extremely frustrating.
Also it didn't help that SirGabriel's question about the number of scum on the lynch was answered when it shouldn't have been.

Sorry jimbob, overall I didn't enjoy this game as much as the others.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:13 pm UTC

Thanks for the game, all. It was kind of a brutal setup for my first go as a mafioso, but them's the breaks. I tried to deal with it by sticking as closely as I could to my town play, but boy did that bite me on the rear a couple of times. Out of curiosity, Sabrar, did you vote for Diemo on D1 because you were afraid that I had been trying to protect our third teammate? From my PoV, my placing that throwaway vote (because I was pretty sure town!Jude would have also thought bessie was town but wanted to have a vote on record) was where the game started to go disastrously wrong for us.

And seriously, my vote/unvote was only because I love the Wheel of Time and it was a chance for flavor silliness. I feel 100% confident that town!Jude would have done the same thing. That was just terrible, terrible luck on my part. :-)

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:28 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:Out of curiosity, Sabrar, did you vote for Diemo on D1 because you were afraid that I had been trying to protect our third teammate?
That was the main reason, but I also thought that leaving bessie alive would make the game much more enjoyable (though harder) than lynching her and having another lurker in play.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby mpolo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:46 pm UTC

The lack of chat for scum was very flavorful, but I can understand it being hard for those playing scum…
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby SDK » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:45 pm UTC

With a 3-person Black team, we probably should have just let them know everyone on the team. The idea here was that each of the three factions had to determine the alignments of other players (sort of like 3 different mafia sub games). I think we carried that a bit far with the Blacks, perhaps, but I was concerned that the Blacks could easily be too powerful in this game. The Blacks were given the same numbers as a normal mafia game, but the town was split in two! jimbob and I discussed a few options for toning back their power, and his idea of delaying the nightkill was what won out. The one other hidden member kinda didn't work though. Would have had more play in a larger game with a 4 or 5 player mafia team, but probably not really in the spirit of mafia in any case. I'll apologize for that one.

Overall though, I though this game worked out fairly well! The double cult game is something many newbies dream up, but it's basically always completely terrible. I think this game did a pretty good job making that bad idea work well. Good job, jimbob. (teehee)
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