Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

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Carlington
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Carlington » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:58 am UTC

If colour duplication indicating scum is the running theory, let the record show that I am actually Red, not Black masquerading. I have one result left to claim which is verifiable by the player (Ms. Itawa...may I call you Helena?) but I won't claim it until they say it's okay.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Carlington » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:33 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Carlington, are you confident that your ability would detect that they are black?

I believe it would based on role PM flavour. I can't guarantee it, of course, but I believe it.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:06 am UTC

Busy weekend for me, this is my first chance to check. mpolo is Robecca Zariah. And, while we're at it, will the real Celestine Principia please stand up?

I am starting to suspect that my power doesn't show me if someone is Black Ajah - I have enough results from that and from other sources (flips, recruitments) that it seems unlikely. Unless, as others have said, there's no Black Ajah left. But that fails to explain last night's kill. Unless the kill is poisoning instead? Or the kill goes ahead regardless of being lynched?? I think the former makes more sense, especially when taking the failed warding into account.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:12 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I am starting to suspect that my power doesn't show me if someone is Black Ajah

It doesn’t matter what color you get for your result if you get alignment. All the Black Ajah members have a cover color anyway. Reminder, you previously claimed this:
Carlington wrote:Apparently, though, what I claimed may not have been what I meant. According to mafiawiki, normally rolecop just gets the role name, nothing else. Is that the case? Because I get the entire role as a result - name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment.

You did get a town read on mpolo, didn’t you?
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town? Note that mpolo claims he was recruited N3. Don't forget to cover that when you answer.


So, my results give me name, power, Ajah, wincon, and alignment, like I said - but if I can draw your attention to Sabrar and JudeMorrigan's flips, notice that both of them had "X of Black Ajah, ostensibly of Y Ajah". So when I say I'm unsure, what I mean is that I'm starting to think it's possible I only get to see the ostensible Ajah. Now, because of when I carried out these investigations, the results I have wrt. alignment are two "unaligned Aes Sedai of $ajah" one "leader of the supporters of $faction" and one "supporter of $leader". Given the amount of recruitment and different factional alignments things happening, I am wondering whether it wouldn't be OP to get the rest of the info - what if I'm only getting the alignment as concerns Siuan/Elaida?
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:44 am UTC

bessie wrote:
bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town?
Carlington, why can’t I get a straight answer to this question? And what exactly were your results for mpolo (name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment)?
By "town" I mean "not Black Ajah", which is the way the word has been used the rest of this game. I think that question is disingenuous. Of course, I claimed that before I began to wonder whether someone's membership of the Black Ajah might not show up in my results. So now I'm not as sure in my claims that my results show people being town.
I wonder why it is that you want all the details of my result on mpolo. Should I claim the details of my result on you instead? Does it matter which player it is that I claim my results on? (Excepting SirG, natch) Or is there something about mpolo in particular you want to know?
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:05 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:Busy weekend for me, this is my first chance to check. mpolo is Robecca Zariah. And, while we're at it, will the real Celestine Principia please stand up?
So matt and dimochka, which of you is Celestine Principia? It must be one of you since except for N1, it seems like Carlington only investigates confirmed town.

As a quick response to this:
I genuinely keep missing the fact that mpolo was confirmed by receiving Jude's message and I keep having to go back and check why. I blame that happening during a period of game when I had very little time and was not paying due attention. The rest of the players I have investigated, I don't believe they were confirmed town at that point in time. I investigated you bc N1 I had to pick someone, SirG because the whole "I am Spartacus" thing re: claiming Elaida and Siuan confused the hell out of me and I wanted an answer, and last night's target because I think there's no remaining scum and I am trying to figure out who is aligned where so I know the best way to win.

Ninja'd and now mad curious about what you want to know about mpolo. Since I don't think there's scum anymore I think it's safe enough to claim your result: Helena Itawa, Yellow Ajah, doctor, unaligned N1 (I have no way to know about after then).
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:08 am UTC

Screw it, I don't believe that there's scum anymore anyway so:
mpolo's claim was true, he was Accepted/Universal Backup. As at my result (N3) he hadn't chosen a power. He's aligned with Elaida Sedai.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Carlington » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:12 am UTC

bessie wrote:Carlington, did you investigate matt last night? If yes, please explain why you lied here:
Carlington wrote:The rest of the players I have investigated, I don't believe they were confirmed town at that point in time.
Oh, and what’s my wincon?
As per the nightless nature of the game, I have been submitting my actions before deadline. Ergo, Sabrar hadn't flipped yet when I submitted, and I could not have changed after Sabrar's flip.

As for wincon, on checking again I see that I don't have one for you or for Matt, both of whom were unaligned when I investigated them. SirG's matches his flip. mpolo "wins when all threats to Elaida's leadership have been eliminated". He can confirm that, but given that I just outed him to his enemies he may feel inclined not to do so I guess. I'm on the bus, I want to get home and bust out my whiteboard before I throw a vote out - I've got some tallying to do.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Carlington » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:36 am UTC

I don't even care about the loss, that was fun! I wonder whether my "no scum left" lie would have held more water if I withheld the kill the night preceding. Still, that would leave me dealing with another Investigative role and it was too risky.
bessie, I'm sorry you found this so frustrating. I feel a little bad about manipulating you into protecting scum!me. No hard feelings I hope.

Good game all! Many great examples of players using the wrong logic to get the right results.

Double Ninja! Yeah was I red or blue? My role PM definitely says red but other players called me blue.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby Carlington » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:46 am UTC

Missed opportunity! Although I think by that point it would have hurt you more to push my lynch.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (Pre-game)

Postby Diemo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:37 pm UTC

Here
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby Diemo » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:05 am UTC

Sorry, I am here. Just a little distracted by work.

First thing that I have noticed is that there is a lot of people are picking on dimochka. Three people voting him for a joke vote at the start? Seems like a lot.

It seems likely to me that the Black Ajah is the mafia, as they are the bad guys in the books. This isn't necessarily the case though, as there is an argument that the Red Ajah are the mafia.

Book spoilers (potentially later than book 4/5, I can't remember)
Spoiler:
The Red Ajah were the ones who disposed of Suain Sanche

Definitely from like book 9 or so
Spoiler:
The leader of the red Ajah turned out to also be the leader of the Black


dimochka wrote:I don't plan to bring up the militant atheist idea again

But I like lynching the mod. (I played a game once where we insisted on lynching the mod despite the mod telling us that lynching him was impossible - good times :) )

I would be rather surprised if the Amyrlin is in the game - is seems more likely that she is our overall overlord - a NPC if you will. I would expect for Nyneave, Elene? and Egwene to be around (I believe that are in the White tower at the moment, though I could easily be wrong). Other than that I think that we will be relatively random Aes Sedai.

I can also see an argument for any Ajah - we are in the seat of the Aes Sedai power so there are plenty of sisters of all the Ajahs around.

I'll try to add some more after work.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (Pre-game)

Postby dimochka » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:54 pm UTC

Confirmed. Militant atheist here.

Vote jimbob
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby dimochka » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:59 am UTC

bessie wrote:FoS dimochka

1. For posting game content during the confirmation phase. While this was not specifically prohibited in the opening post, it’s going against tradition to post game content until the mod officially starts the game.

Quick post as it's 1am here.
For what it's worth, I would never post any remotely relevant content in the confirmation phase, as I assume that it's reserved for confirmation only. However, when I get back to this after work, I will consider people's reactions to my joke. I already have some thoughts around it... :twisted:
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby dimochka » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:13 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Double FoS dimochka.

Vote Bessie
Serious vote. To respond to your last post, yes it may be possible, but that's not how I play. So fmpov you are trying to nitpick something that I don't see to be relevant to the game (and to be fair I have 0 flavor knowledge so I didn't even know there was a creator and/or someone interacting with him). You can call it wine if you like. From my experience, I've seen scum do exactly what you're doing too many times. Sadly don't have time at work to look for specific games because this week is going to be crazy.

For the rest of the players - I don't plan to bring up the militant atheist idea again, so either lynch me for it or I'd prefer we don't waste time further discussing it. If you think I'm scummy for posting about it, that's fine, but I don't want to derail discussing towards "should we or should we not vote for the mod."
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby dimochka » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:48 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@dimochka: you mentioned you have some thoughts about the reactions to your joke. Since you don't plan to continue it, would you mind sharing those thoughts with us?

I'll respond tonight. Worked till midnight yesterday on a big deliverable to our CEO (which went very well). Today should be done at 6:30pm, so will have plenty of time.

I'm also hoping to catch up on flavor, but I tentatively have no problem with the suggestion of "black ajah = mafia".
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby dimochka » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:35 pm UTC

OK HI SORRY. A few responses:
Sabrar wrote:- I think dimochka's vote is premature, based on one aspect on how scum would play and not considering bessie's meta

Yes, to be fair, i did not consider meta at all. what i did consider was a double FoS and this:
bessie wrote:I don’t random vote, when I place a vote it will be serious. It seems a little too early to place a serious vote, so instead I will do this:

FoS dimochka

So as far as i'm concerned, her FoS may as well be a vote for something I clearly meant as a joke, and her "strengthening" the FoS was especially surprising to me and seemed like scum setting up a later vote. So I decided to call her bluff while voting for someone I simply don't see as town / good ajah / whatever town is.

@Jimbob - I apologize for causing a mess. didn't mean it.

Now back to game. I just re-read everyone's posts. ahippo stands out to me for a couple of reasons: (1) that mishap with the ajah's that jude pointed to, (2) discussion re:scumhunting that in my opinion is adding no value yet makes it seem like he has more content. May not be on purpose but still.

Also - not sure about jude's list. here's what it looks like to me: jude himself, 3 people who discussed me/bessie, one person who discussed mostly flavor, me and bessie, two people you have no opinion on (so that makes everyone before them town?), the one person who didn't mention the ajah distribution, and then two people with no real content which shouldn't even really be in there. so this list is really not helpful.

moody seems either neutral or town. nothing stands out. mostly mentioning him because he was the first one to try to do some me vs. bessie analysis.

sirg is townish in my book. i'm usually wary of people defending me, especially d1, but he has put considerably more thought into it than I have.

more later today. can also post my spoilered re-read, as i do some games.

please feel free to field questions my way, i'll have a town-scum list next post.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby dimochka » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:38 pm UTC

I'm trying to get a quick post in now. Not actually crazy about the bessie vote anymore. Her posting style changed significantly and she provided a lot more useful content, not exactly what I would have expected. I'm going to unvote and re-read now, particularly ignoring anything between me and bessie.

@Sabrar - you know, looking at moody's post now I'm not really sure what stood out to me as more townie. It felt like he put more time into it to try and separate people out, but looking at it now I don't see it. Also I don't like that people keep putting those with flavor knowledge as more townie.

Unvote
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby dimochka » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:10 pm UTC

didn't realize we are back. catching up now.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby dimochka » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:45 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:The board wouldn't let me connect to it last night

Oh good, then it wasn't just me. This is why I didn't post yesterday. xkcd.com would pull up, but forums would not.

My current thoughs:
1. The wagon on D1 was very unsettling, I don't know how this suddenly materialized.
2.
moody7277 wrote:
dimochka wrote:Also I don't like that people keep putting those with flavor knowledge as more townie.


Your point being, I assume, that flavor discussion is a good position from which to active lurk?

Yes, exactly.
3. Moody vs. Jude read - I decided to go back and try to figure out why jude pinged me so much more, and I think i did. There's a couple of things. First of all, jude's order - he's got town, neutral, no clue, scum, but then back to no clue. what jumped out at me was putting gop/matt above ahippo, but having carlington below. I would've put them all together if there was no read. moody had an opinion on everyone. Second, it wasn't just about the list, it was about the explanations. jude's top town picks are based on me vs. bessie. i'm pretty sure there's more to talk about. moody's post came through as more comprehensive and not focusing on only one part of the day (and jude didn't explain why they were townie, just that they all analyzed us two?)
4. my joke vote reactions - first to make it clear, the reaction i expected was pretty much what sabrar did. i actually don't like jude's reaction at all.. that joking second vote, even though inconsequential, is often used by scum (no clue why, but it always sticks out to me). other reactions were really not relevant in my opinion. i was going to let it play out for longer but bessie really pushed me there, and i felt she was not doing it as a townie. I'm still unsure about her, thinking she might be an independent or something like diemo.
5. claiming ajah - i'm against claiming and i'll even mention specifically why. my role correlates somewhat with mpolo's suggested list (what colors would result in what roles). i don't actually particularly care about revealing my own role as it's not that great, BUT since mine correlates, i expect that potential cops/vigs/doctors/jailers would too.

I just put together a recap of everyone's posts and am going through it, will have a town to scum list later. i'm trying to analyze carlington's list because i don't like it (might be biased because it seems he downgraded me from town to scummy with almost no reasoning).
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby dimochka » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:42 pm UTC

I would preferably like an extension as well.
I'll post before deadline but it'd be nice if we had some time for people to react.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby dimochka » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:58 pm UTC

I'm posting while hopefully we can find a replacement. I'd prefer that I don't get modkilled, I can make an attempt to make posts but will be very limited.

Sabrar wrote:Currently it looks to me like SirGabriel is really the recruiter, so it makes sense to lynch him first.

This makes a lot of sense. It also makes a lot of sense if you're actually Black Ajah.
Sabrar wrote:dimochka: very little content on D2, with more promises. Now that MMMII is finished I am allowed to mention that I saw the same kind of lurking from scum!dimochka there. Scummy.

With your track record of researching previous games, I would have expected you to go back and look at more games where I had things come up at work for comparison, which would show that this has nothing to do with alignment. Actually I'd say it's usually easier to come up with content as scum because you usually have a better idea of the setup (this is debatable, just my view).

Quick thoughts on people, not that it'll change last minute votes (except that we had a sudden new wagon end of D1 so I don't even know):
ahippo/sirg - part of some kind of recruiting group. considering we had no kill this is worrying. but considering I don't necessarily believe that the recruiting is a threat to the white tower, it doesn't concern me as much as some others. Maybe because I don't know flavor. Neutral in my book.
sabrar - something is off in his focus on people. he does not feel townie to me. I mentioned two instances above. Neutral leaning Scummy
jude - already noted he seemed off to me, and his "nice" response is just that, a nice response. if we truly have two recruiting factions then i don't really see anything off about what was mentioned, and it seems that jude almost singlehandedly pushed that lynch. if ahippo flips non-scum, jude would be my next pick. He's kind of my pick in general.
Bessie - content greatly improved. actually doing analysis.
bessie wrote:I've been struggling with reads this game, maybe because of all the potentially unaligned players.

This makes me think she's unaligned as well.
On a separate note, I will claim my color D3 if people want. I have my reasons.
Madge - also seems unaligned. mostly reacting to what happened with sirg / ahippo. i might be biased because i found moody's thoughts aligned with mine and madge seems clueless about the factions.
Matt- no opinion because basically lacking content
Mpolo - neutral. i didn't like his vote on madge to "get someone else out there". but otherwise he's been helpful
Carlington - almost no content. i distinctly remember not liking his content on d1, but don't have time now to go back to find why. neutral leaning scummy
GOP - the only person I'm kind of suspecting being white ajah, if that even exists. i think his thoughts are more coherent, but again with minutes till deadline i dont have time to look for them. although i am curious - why would you want to lynch the supporter and not the recruiter?

I guess what i'm trying to figure out here is why some people want to lynch the supporter (is it to confirm alignment) or the recruiter (is it because they're convinced they're scum).

sorry for lack of content and hopefully we find a replacement. otherwise i'm ok with being modkilled if people prefer based on my lacking content.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby dimochka » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:36 pm UTC

I killed Jude, and I'm now essentially vanilla. I'm green Ajah. More later, but just wanted to get it out there.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:20 pm UTC

I'll have one big post later tonight, no clue what will be in it yet because i'm not caught up on D3. I'm trying to keep up with it but had no internet access all weekend and work is still sadly crazy busy.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby dimochka » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:32 am UTC

First a few responses

Sabrar wrote:I don't really understand your first point. So there is something that I would have done both as Townie and as Scum and because of that you find me scummy? Is that really your point?

IIRC, the point I was trying to make is that I don't necessarily see the recruiting groups as scummy / contrary to our win condition, so your view to lynch him stood out to me from that perspective. It makes sense IF the recruiter prevents town from winning, but it also makes sense if the recruiter is like a quasi-mason in group, in which case black ajah would definitely want him dead. So that was mostly an observation that I could see you posting it from either angle.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Possible scum teams:
...
bessie - matt96. Likely. Jude and matt save bessie from a D1 lynching. Lay low during D2 because of all the Elaida business.

Disagree. Scum cannot be so bad as to have both people save bessie last minute. Too much attention in my opinion.

mpolo wrote:I would not object to our vig killing SirGabriel to reduce the probability that I have to worry about getting rid of a weak leader in the future.

I still don't understand where we decided that these recruits are a bigger threat than black ajah. We're just cleaning house for them as far as I see it, for no real good reason.

matt96 wrote:I suppose the idea was that the Black ajah was intended to try to avoid getting exposed while letting the siuan and elaida's factional conflict weaken town.

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.

bessie wrote:But I don't think he's [dimochka] a night kill candidate anyway. He claimed his color and power with no counterclaims. If he's telling the truth, he's vanilla.

Yes, I'm vanilla.

And some reads (not in any particular order)
- Madge: I don't think she fully caught up on flavor and realized to claim a different recruiting faction that doesn't exist. So as far as I'm concerned she's in Siuan. From my point of view I definitely don't want the recruiting factions to kill one another because that goes against my current wincon of having a strong leader in place.
SirG: similar to madge. really doubt he's lying
Matt: I may be reading into it but a double vote in scum's hands is incredibly strong. I know that his content has been lacking but I don't think black ajah would have that (plus a kill and/or whatever else). With that being said I want to see that post he planned to put together.
Sabrar: I mentioned the couple of things that look off to me. Otherwise it's a lot of back and forth arguing with GoP which I didn't find that helpful. So either they're both town, or one is scum trying to waste our time and look active (not that either of them needs help looking active after all that)
GoP: Same as above. If I had to pick one of them, I'd have sabrar as the more scummy one, but I may be biased from D1/D2 so I'm reviewing.
*sidenote - I do not believe that both gop and sabrar are scum together.
Bessie: As I mentioned before, her content improved, and while I don't agree with everything, I actually think that she and I are likely in the same situation. But this is gut feeling and I'll have to come back to this.
Mpolo: based on the note situation, he's likely town.
Carlington: all we have is a rolecop claim, which could swing either way on the town-scum scale. Not very convincing to be honest (of townieness; I can believe the power)

I'd be most comfortable with a carlington lynch at this point, but i should have more time to review in detail tomorrow before the deadline. If anything here doesn't make sense, ask away.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby dimochka » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:01 pm UTC

I'm not causing a tie here. Sabrar is still a bit questionable in my book and I would prefer his lynch over Madge's, but I don't see matt as scum. So I'm keeping things as they are. Plus deadline now... :(
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:29 pm UTC

i'm somewhat here. i'll be here later tonight (in about 3-4 hours) with more details. i'm vanilla so i don't have any actions to report on, but i'll get some thoughts together after work.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby dimochka » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:17 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
dimochka wrote:sabrar - something is off in his focus on people. he does not feel townie to me. I mentioned two instances above.
dimochka wrote:So that was mostly an observation that I could see you posting it from either angle.
Snipped the rest but you should know what I'm referring to here. You mention 2 instances that you don't like. You've clarified that one of them was 'just an observation'. You didn't mention my reply to your second point at all. Would be great if you could make actual accusations instead of vaguely implying things.

Yes, let me explain.
#1 we determined SirG is likely a recruiter for a faction that was (at least in my eyes) not the scum faction. We didn't know whether black ajah existed, though I considered it very likely. Now I could see you suggesting to lynch him because you actually thought that faction was a cult and the main antagonist, but I didn't feel like that was your focus (correct me if i'm wrong). In this case, your reasons to lynch him would be (1) you're in the other recruiting group, or (2) you're in an unrelated anti-town group that needs to kill others (ie black ajah). I didn't see you mentioning anything about the other group, and therefore the latter of the two seemed more likely.
#2 When you analyze people's play from previous games, you (I mean specifically you) usually call out a few of them. The fact that you didn't go back and check other games where I wasn't very responsive but (conveniently) chose the last game where I was, indeed, scum, stood out to me. This is just meta read, not anything specifically related to this game.

My thoughts on the current situation:
- I trust SirG is not scum, and therefore either matt or sabrar are scum. That means there is one more scum left (yes there could be more but I feel like that would be unbalanced)
- A double vote in my opinion is too strong a power to give to scum, therefore I think matt is town
- However, I do understand that leaving matt alive today is a worse play than leaving sabrar alive today, so I would be ok with the general consensus

Sabrar wrote:Quick reaction: as I've said before I received a 1-shot Cop ability N1, my actual ability is different.

mpolo wrote:So, we have Sabrar who truthfully supported Madge as a member of Siuan's faction. That likely means that either (1) he has the rolecop he says he has or (2) he is himself in Siuan's faction.

That eliminates #1, so Sabrar is very likely either in Siuan or scum. Also considering SirG's reaction, either matt is in Elaida or Sabrar was recruited into it BUT SirG doesn't actually trust that he's town. And considering bessie's post about the votes, neither is in Elaida, and matt/sabrar are not both in Siuan, which further solidifies my belief that one of them is scum (unless I somehow convinced myself based on some other erroneous statement I lost halfway through).
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby dimochka » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:51 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
dimochka wrote:That eliminates #1, so Sabrar is very likely either in Siuan or scum.
I really don't follow your logic here. What has mpolo's misstatement of my ability to do with these possibilities? Please read again this post. I never said I was a RoleCop, I received a 1-shot Alignment Cop ability that I used. It was successful and told me the truth. How can you draw the conclusion that this would mean I'm either in Siuan or scum? I'm very confused here.

Ok here's my (probably flawed) logic. Please point out where you disagree. You supported Madge being a Siuan member, yet you wanted to lynch SirG for being an Elaida member / recruiter (and same with ahippo). It is therefore unlikely that you are a member of Elaida, and more likely that you are a member of Siuan (though doesn't mean you started as one). You could have been unaligned, but that support of one or the other faction is more likely either if you're a member of one of them, or if you want both dead. It is possible that you are unaligned (I actually forgot about that one) but somewhat less likely fmpov given the interaction. Although they were different days so I could be wrong.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:44 pm UTC

I really think it's more likely that matt's voting power is a townie power as I mentioned before. Also a couple of others reasons why I'm not trusting sabrar's claim (apart from some of the things I mentioned before):
- He says he wins with Town. This could be a wording difference, but I don't believe that there "is" a town. I understand talking about town in general, but when essentially claiming your role this feels off.
- blocking matt N3 doesn't really makes sense given your wincon. I see the explanation but your reply to bessie on D1 re: playing the game vs. winning aligns much better with having people on your side (whereas I just don't see you writing that first paragraph if you really were a survivor). Quoted below.
Sabrar wrote:
Spoiler:
Where I'm coming from: to me actually playing the game is way more important than winning. I would much prefer losing D5 than get killed N1 or N2, even if we win at the end. Therefore the idea that "I'm not afraid of dying because it's better for Town if I die instead of a power-role" would very rarely cross my mind. Objectively it's clear that it's a better outcome but that doesn't mean I have to like it. The "I don't have to be alive to win the game" argument also didn't enter into my thought-process for precisely the same reasons.

Sorry for the late post and sorry if I'm wrong, but if that's the case we'll lynch matt first thing next day.

vote sabrar
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:42 am UTC

I don't really understand what happened. I was given an ivory statue N3 which was supposed to protect someone from death. When I used it on SirGabriel on N4, he died. I don't know if I somehow killed him but I wanted to get this out there early on. Maybe I was roleblocked? Or maybe this statue isn't actually a protection or something else bastardly? People with flavor - ideas?

Otherwise as I said I'm vanilla so my opinions from D4 haven't changed much as of yet.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:44 am UTC

EBWOP: It was a ter’angreal. I don't know if that matters.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:37 am UTC

And one more thing - for anyone wondering why I didn't mention getting a ter’angreal - (a) because I didn't want to announce that I have a doctor power, else it kinda invalidates it, (b) because I couldn't think of a good way to hint at it, and (c) because I figured that whoever gave it to me would realize that I received it from my response on D4, which was
dimochka wrote:i'm vanilla so i don't have any actions to report on
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:44 am UTC

bessie wrote:Did your Ivory Statue ter’angreal protect against attacks by the One Power or from attacks by objects?

It just stopped a player from being killed, doesn't specify.

bessie wrote:Did your Ivory Statue ter’angreal protect against attacks by the One Power or from attacks by objects? And which was your vigilante power? Did you use the One Power to kill Jude? Or did you have a weapon like Madge did?

Yes, my vig power was the One Power. I just don't exactly know the difference between One power and not One power...
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:01 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Carlington wrote:I have results saying mpolo is town.

So, what exactly do you mean by town? Note that mpolo claims he was recruited N3. Don't forget to cover that when you answer.

Funny that we just (correctly) lynched sabrar for this exact reason.

We already know mpolo is town from the actions preceding d2. So unless black ajah can recruit, which does not seem in any way likely, mpolo is still town. Also what he mentioned before regarding the role distribution makes sense to me. GoP - are you the one sending items out?

I don't think we're in terrible risk right now. We're at 6 alive, 4 to lynch. Now if I understand correctly, matt and mpolo are essentially confirmed town. I'm not confirmed but pretty close to that. Do we have any specific proof as to the towniness of GoP / Bessie / Carlington? As far as I see it we can mislynch once (not that I want to do that) and still be ok, and especially so if there's a way to keep matt alive.

My pick for scum is currently Carlington, but I'll get to some more analysis over the next 24 hours (probably not earlier than Sunday afternoon though)
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Quick post before I get back into reading mode - I guess Matt has to be Celestia because I'm Wilhelmina Fantim.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:14 am UTC

Gopher - at which point did you join Siuan? Or were you an original member? I might've missed it.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:25 pm UTC

May as well. I'm in Elaida with mpolo.

I don't know if this works but:

vote gopher
unvote
vote carlington


I believe carlington is the biggest threat to us as he's most likely black ajah. gopher for me is secondary. with that being said, if this somehow ends with 1 vote each, i'd prefer to support my faction-mate as this way gopher had 2 votes first (as i said - no idea if this is valid per game rules).

I was thinking of staying quiet and hope gopher would try to recruit me, but i think it's just going to get too confusing at this point.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:05 pm UTC

we were told that leadership transfers down to someone in the faction as long as one of us is alive, so yes.
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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:29 pm UTC

Ok here's why you should side with Elaida:
- I'm pretty certain that neither bessie nor matt are in Siuan, else they would have (probably) already showed some preference to GoP.
- Based on what we know from how recruiting works, GoP is Siuan and has at most one more member.
(a) IF GoP doesn't have more members in his team then we have more people and are more likely to win, so just vote with us regardless.

(b) If GoP has more members, that member is Carlington. Carlington is almost definitely mafia, which means (I think?) that Siuan can't win with him alive, so they're hurt by that off the bat. Plus if GoP is lynched and Carlington gets the faction recruit, I really can't figure out what exactly he'd do, but anyone he recruits would still need him dead which really complicates things.

If we lynch carlington, GoP will try to recruit matt due to his double vote. So will we. I have no clue how that gets resolved. Assuming it fails, we lynch GoP and hopefully this means that everyone unaligned wins with Elaida. Unfortunately due to the way ties get resolved, we can't recruit bessie because then GoP would get matt and we'd have equal number of votes and it would be a win for whomever is online first (unless there's some kind of an exception for when black ajah is out of the picture? I'm fine with a tie, but I can see it making no sense with the flavor...)
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