Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: A few different places->NYC->LA->NYC. He/Him/His please.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:29 pm UTC

ok small correction. if carlington is in Siuan, Siuan can't recruit tonight and we'll outnumber them off the bat, so here's what works best.

1. lynch carlington
1a. if carlington is in Siuan and scum, GoP can't recruit. We recruit matt to control vote, lynch GoP, bessie wins with us (confirmed).
1b. if Carlington is not in Siuan but scum, GoP tries to recruit matt tonight and we do too. I assume this recruit fails (i really hope it doesn't somehow kill recruit else I'm really sorry matt). Then we have 2 votes, GoP has one, and bessie/matt hopefully side with us but it's really a kingmaker situation for the unaligned.
1c. if Carlington is not scum, I have no idea. reevaluate. thoughts welcome.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: A few different places->NYC->LA->NYC. He/Him/His please.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:52 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:bessie wins with us (confirmed).

That is assuming that bessie's win con is the unaligned win con that I had when I started the game.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: A few different places->NYC->LA->NYC. He/Him/His please.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby dimochka » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:02 pm UTC

matt96 wrote:sounds good, but I'm of the opinion that carlington is more likely to flip Siuan/Not scum, simply because of him having found out that Bessie is a Doctor, and Bessie not being the first scum Night Kill. If something suggests that moody warded Bessie before getting lynched, I'd have similar confidence in carlington being scum.

Who do you think is scum then?
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: A few different places->NYC->LA->NYC. He/Him/His please.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby dimochka » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:31 am UTC

ahippo wrote:Great work guys! I think dimochka was the true hero of the Elaida faction.

Thank you, but no way I could've done it without the rest of the team. Having mpolo confirmed was a huge help. If mpolo wasn't in my team AND confirmed by the notes, I would've probably pushed a lynch on him this last day. Because how likely is the fact that my protection removed his protection (or vice versa, I don't even know).. Also I apparently just in general do better when there isn't just a town and scum team, but a mix of a couple of teams fighting for the win.

ahippo wrote:I'm amazed that what happened on D2 didn't completely destroy any chance we had. It might have even helped to get it all out there? Maybe I'm reaching. I want to feel not useless.

I was worried that me protecting you would look terrible, so I didn't even try. Sorry! And to be perfectly honest I was really confused. The real heroes are the people who kind of explained flavor to me, and probably GoP for recruiting Carlington. Had it been the other way around, I doubt Elaida would've won.

I'm also still not completely sure why I decided bessie wasn't scum. No actual proof but at some point I just assumed she wasn't against me.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: A few different places->NYC->LA->NYC. He/Him/His please.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D6)

Postby dimochka » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:45 am UTC

bessie wrote:JudeMorrigan, I hope you don’t get discouraged and you decide to play again. I think you played very well. Your read of ahippo was really quite remarkable. And you were townie enough that both moody and I protected you N1. I’m not sure how dimochka picked you out as scum so quickly (SDK does the same thing) because I sure don’t have that magic. I just keep playing and hoping some of it will eventually rub off on me.

I'm pretty sure I did that exact same thing as scum as what Jude did (the 2nd vote), got called out for it, and lynched. And I was racking my brain trying to figure out how this was indicative of scum. And then seen other people do the same thing. If I had to guess, a townie just randomly votes for someone who hasn't been voted for, while scum kinda wants to "prove" townieness by making this joke that HEY I CAN PUT A SECOND VOTE, BUT I'LL REMOVE IT, I'M TOWN. It feels like trying too hard to fit in. Totally baseless and yet seems to work.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (Pre-game)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:24 pm UTC

Confirm
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:30 am UTC

Playing pretty flavour blind here. Only read the first book, and wasn't that keen on it. I'll go read up a bit on it soon.

Vote: mpolo

For making us wait.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:53 am UTC

Unvote

Ok, having read up a bit on the flavour, and judging by the opening flavour, it would seem that we are all, or meant to pretend to be, members of the Aes Sedai? And we would be attempting to stop the Black Ajah from taking over? So, mafia = black Ajah? Does anyone disagree?

ahippo seems to think that the Amerlyn Seat may be able to change hands? During the game, or as a result of the game?

bessie, what makes you think recruiter? I thought cult like abilities were frowned around here, I know no one wanted my cult game a while ago, but of course times might have changed.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:08 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:bessie, what makes you think recruiter?

Sabrar wrote:Why do you think that only 1-2 townies can get recruited?
It’s my initial setup spec. I had to start somewhere. And the setup does not rule it out. Gopher of Pern, what makes you think we don’t have a recruiter?


As I said, I thought cult was a dirty word around here. I have no idea whether a recruiter would fit the flavour, so I have no idea if there is one or not. Hence why I asked why you think there is a recruiter. Nice dodging of the question though.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:25 am UTC

Don't have long to post, but in response to your question Sabrar, bessie simply stated that they needed to start somewhere. That is not a reason for specifically including a recruiter. Other people have responded with what the mod said (about changing alignments), which gives more reason to, but bessie did not at the time. Hence why I thought they were dodging the question.

Other ideas will come tomorrow when I have more time.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:11 am UTC

Well, I finally got bitten by the 'lost your post' bug. And it was a big one. Now I'm typing it all again, so apologies if I come across a bit harsh, as I am understandably annoyed right now.

Vote: bessie

Way too defensive. I asked for a reason to include a recruiter in your setup spec, and you give several non-answers, and protest that your speculation is not unreasonable. And you didn't feel the need to quote where the mod specifically said that their are possible alignment changes? That smacks of post-hoc justification. It's not as if people haven't misread the rules before. Your final reason is a guess? Yeah, I don't believe you.

I never said that your speculation was unreasonable, or wrong. I simply asked your reasons for it, as I found it unusual. Your defence of it has pinged me like nothing else in this game.

Onto ahippo's questions:

Scumhunting strategies I tend to use are pressure and vote-analysis. Early on I like to pressure people, to see reactions. Later on, I see how people vote, and their reasons for doing so. Not really sure how good the strategy is though.

What do you mean by act? Votes, yes, sure. I use the votes to apply pressure. Actions, well, thats very context specific.

On claiming, I do whatever I think will help my team win, so if I think claiming as town will help, I will do it. But then, due to the nature of the game, I do try to be on the wary side when it goes to claims, as I find the game to be less interesting if claiming is the best strategy.

I would probably be a brown Ajah, or possibly a white.

Now for some thoughts on people. The below was a bit more thought out in my previous post, but I have the gist below.

Sabrar - Playing how they played as town in previous game, with good searching questions. Possible Town.

mpolo - Has some content, was basically ok. Neutralish.

Carlington - One post. Lurker.

moody - Similar to how town moody has played in the past, with early scum listing, and decent analysis. Possible town.

dimochka - Confirmation post caused a stir. A bit light early, but good analysis later. Possible town.

bessie - With the above conclusion, plus their weirdness around dim's post, I am getting very bad vibes. Scummy.

SirGabriel - Is contributing well, some analysis. Possible Town.

ahippo - Good flavour analysis, I think the slip up was honest. Probable Town.

JudeMorrigan - Early on they pinged me with their comment on scum having a low profile, but have since contributed well. Neutralish.

Diemo - Lurker

matt- Lurker

Apologies for not filling them all out as much. I don't have time to go through all the posts again.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:31 pm UTC

Things from yesterday:

Sabrar, The fact bessie didn't mention a reason in her first response is why it was now post-hoc. I don't see how mine is post-hoc? I asked for a reason, and they became defensive about it.

matt, why didn't you claim you had a double vote? Did I miss it? And why didn't anyone else notice?

So, bessie seems to have a guardian angel. While their posting did improve a lot near the end of the day, I am still suspicious of them, even more so that they got saved. Makes me think a lot less of Jude, as they started the alternate bandwagon on an easy target, for what I deem to be a spurious reason. Mentioning that red ajah's could be mafia? The red's were working sorta with the blacks, weren't they? (At least being manipulated by them) It was a red who deposed the Amurlyn. Matt is another one I'm keeping an eye on, for being third to the bandwagon, and having a double vote, without expressly saying it.

ahippo, that is a lot of busy work for very little gain. You can't use stats on a game like this to provide any meaningful information. Sample size is too small, each game is different, with different roles and different players. You cannot get anything statistically significant from that analysis (although it would have been fun to do!) That, plus a lack of analysis on anything that's happened, makes me think a lot less of you as well.

SirGabriel, I will claim if I need to.

Matt, why the vote on diemo? You didn't give a reason why.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:10 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Sabrar, The fact bessie didn't mention a reason in her first response is why it was now post-hoc. I don't see how mine is post-hoc? I asked for a reason, and they became defensive about it.
It's because you keep trying to find new faults in her response even after she explained them, or trying to point to things that don't need an explanation in my opinion.

Gopher of Pern wrote:matt, why didn't you claim you had a double vote? Did I miss it? And why didn't anyone else notice?
Upon re-read he did claim it (though subtly). Without double-vote the votals would have stood bessie: 4, Diemo: 3, which would make his "Which ties the votals" a lie or a mistake. I assume he knew that his double-vote would be revealed in the official votals, therefore he didn't feel the need to say it explicitly.


I don't believe she explained them, as she dodged my question, then got ultra defensive.

Yes, it was a subtle claim, but why not do it outright? It's not as if we wouldn't notice. (I was considering asking the mods if the votals were correct the first time, with 5 votes by 4 people, until it was clarified.) Town generally wins when they have more information, so withholding that is a black mark.

mpolo, you say that your internet was spotty, yet you did manage a few posts, most of which say "I know nothing." You could have provided some opinions on what was going on. Why not?
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:20 pm UTC

Vote: ahippo

I really don't like the way they are ignoring everything else in the game aside from flavour speculation and the statistics analysis, even after it has been pointed out to them. I also suspect, due to my suspicion on bessie, they were trying to get towny points for voting on them. I could provide reasoning both ways, but I suppose that is just playing into reason that I think they're scummy (IF bessie is scum, they thought they were doomed, and so jumped on to look towny / IF bessie is town, they had a disclaimer that they thought they were town anyway.)

mpolo is looking a little better, given the benefit of the doubt in regards to computer problems.

Following on from Sabrars vote analysis, I had pretty much the same ideas, but slightly different conclusions. I had Jude and matt a bit higher than moody and Sabrar, simply because they didn't provide decent enough reasoning.

My current town to scum list:
GopherofPern
Carlington
SirGabriel
dimochka
mpolo
Sabrar
moody/Madge
matt
Jude
Bessie
ahippo

The positions at the top is a bit wishywashy.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:21 am UTC

ahippo wrote:I want to start off with a quick clarification:
bessie wrote:Why a roleblocker? Seems odd to me that he didn’t mention a doctor

I was using the term roleblocker to refer to any role that could have blocked the night kill, including doctor. Sorry for the confusion.

It seems like the primary reason I'm leading in the votals is because of my D1 post. I feel like I've given a fairly good explanation of why I thought it was a good idea at the time. Sabrar and Madge are chalking it up to my inexperience. I don't think there's much I can do at this point to change minds, but if there's something, I'll try.


I've never heard 'roleblocker' used to describe the doctor. In a game of mafia, miscommunication can be deadly.

The primary reason you are leading the votals is not due to the day 1 post, but due to the utter lack of scum hunting and opinions about other players, which has been pointed out many times. At this point, it's pretty much too little, too late.

Sabrar wrote:Gopher of Pern: I feel like he is nit-picking in is attacks versus bessie and matt96 and provides very few reads regarding the other players. Slightly scummy.


Nitpicky? I can understand bessie, but matt96? Yes, I think they should have declared their double vote, but my thoughts on their scumminess goes beyond just that. Note, they haven't responded why they didn't declare either. I'm starting to think you are misconstruing my posts on purpose.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:37 pm UTC

Ok, now that is interesting.

With all the flavour, I very much doubt that the black ajah do not exist. If SirGabriel is telling the truth about the two factions, that would make it a 2/2/2-3/5-6 breakup, with the 2 cults with 2 members each, a 2 to 3 member mafia, and 5-6 unaligned or town.

I am not inclined to believe SirGabriel all the way. The way ahippo is fighting for a mafia less setup is pinging me very hard. If there is black ajah in this game, ahippo and SirGabriel are trying their hardest to downplay them. Which would be a thing that Elaida of the red ajah would want.

ahippo, you really think that there is only a 15% chance of there being a NK, just off a lack of NK the first night? You are really fudging the numbers here. It is far more likely that the mafia was blocked, or didn't use their NK. It happens all the time.

Also, in regards to matt, I have put him in the scummy end of my list. Just not as scummy as ahippo.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:27 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@SirGabriel: thanks, that makes sense.

It is at this point that I hate being flavor-blind. So my understanding is the following:

- Siuan is an extremely important character that many have speculated to be in the game and she is absolutely on the good side. Therefore (assuming there will be no counter-claims) SirGabriel can only claim this in two circumstances:
A) he is Siuan,
B) he is scum and has Siuan as false-claim because he knows that she is not in the game.

I find B highly unlikely for a number of reasons, the main part is flavor. It is just not done that in a game based on flavor the main protagonist is missing and is given to scum as false-claim. It goes against the nature of the setup. Therefore I believe him being Siuan, his explanation about the factions also makes sense with what we know so far (and he hinted at this knowledge very early when questioning mpolo's note).

Now JudeMorrigan is convinced that the Black Ajah are part of the game because of flavor (and he must know the books really well if he was able to search up that quote so fast). He is basically voting for a character who is as close to an Innocent Child as anyone can be without actual mod-reveal. He is either seriously misinterpreting the situation or is scum himself (from Elaida's faction). The only thing that could explain this if the flavor received by SirGabriel was misleading and we'd really have Black Ajah in the game despite the role-pm, however the mod specifically stated that he would do no such thing.

Unvote
Vote: JudeMorrigan


You find it 'barely inconceivable' that we have no Black Ajah. Do you have any evidence to support that or do you really think that Siuan would not be Town?
Of course if someone counter-claims SirGabriel then all of the above is moot.

Request mod-prod on Madge.


Sabrar, don't you think it unlikely that in the opening flavour that Siuan is hunting for black ajah, but now we have a player that claims to be Siuan, and says the blacks are a myth?

It also seems that SirGabriel has much more information than the rest of us. That typically means that they are scum.

Sabrar, I wish there was a way to confirm if they were telling the truth, but in absence of that, would it not be better to lynch ahippo, and if they do indeed support Siuan, then we all just follow SirGabriel the next day?

mpolo, why vote for madge? There is already a vote on them. Are you part of SirGabriels faction as well?

Jude, I think it'd be better to lynch ahippo rather than SirGabriel. Either way it will confirm, but if they are Siuan, I'd rather lynch the supporter than Siuan herself.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D2)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:46 am UTC

ahippo wrote:This was certainly unexpected.

SirGabriel is lying. I'm not one of his supporters. In fact, JudeMorrigan nailed it D1. I'm an Elaida supporter. I bet that explains a lot for everyone. For what it's worth, bessie, I did think you were town D1. Now I'm not so sure. Given the likelihood of my own lynching, you'll see that I'm telling the truth now. This game is a battle of recruiters, and I'm sorry to my fellow Elaida supporters that I played so poorly. SirGabriel likely gave away the way that the Black Ajah recruit, since it's the way that we do, and with my lynching the Elaida crew won't be recruiting tonight.

My guess is that SirGabriel is one of the Black Ajah. With his post, he put a huge pressure on me today. Tonight, they're probably going to recruit matt96 for his double vote. From there, it's nearly impossible for them to lose. It was a really strong play, since it seemed like I might not be lynched today before then. I'll fight it in the only way I have.

Vote: SirGabriel


To quote Sabrar:
Sabrar wrote:WTF?


So, ahippo, you are saying that you are *not* on SirGabriels side? That they were trying to get you lynched by revealing, even though you were already leading the votals?

Umm....is there any flavour reason there would be a jester in the game? That's the only reason I could see for SirGabriel doing their action. If they are unaligned, they wouldn't put themselves out in this way. If they are Siuan, or part of her faction, they wouldn't try to save someone of another faction. If they are Elaida's faction, ahippo would probably try to take the save, instead of going against them. If they are black ajah...why would they try to 'save' ahippo?

ahippo, you were already leading the votals, so why would they reveal to put more pressure on?

Frankly, at this stage, I'd be happy with lynching either of ahippo or SirGabriel
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:32 am UTC

Good work dim.

So, if SirGabriel is correct, we have 2 mafia remaining, 2 of SirGabriel's faction remaining, up to 4 of another faction remaining, with 1-3 unaligned? IF there are indeed two recruiting factions.

What information do we have that there is a recruiting faction aside from SirGabriels?

Do you lose your recruit if you are NK'd SirGabriel?

Just going to make a list of players with their claims, so we can get some clarity:

Sabrar - No claims
mpolo - Received note
Carlington - No claims
moody7277Madge - No claims
dimochka - Green Ajah - 1-shot vig
bessie - No claims
Gopher of Pern - No claims
SirGabriel - Claimed Elaida - Red Ajah - One question per night
ahippo Lynched D2 - Elaida groupie - White Ajah - Previous night watcher
JudeMorriganDied N2 - Black Ajah - White Ajah - Gives out messages
DiemoLynched D1 - Unaligned - Brown Ajah - weird letters power
matt96 - Double vote

Can someone else double check that I haven't missed anything?

SirGabriel, I don't think that your theory about there only being one of each Ajah holds water, as there are two revealed whites there, although one of the whites was a black.

If no one else got a letter, that would mean mpolo was not a member of the black ajah in D2. So mpolo is looking pretty townie. (Jude could only send messages to people not of their faction, and their faction had no chat abilities, so the chances of that being a bluff is vanishingly small.)

Ok, just checked, and the information we have about the black ajah recruiting came from the black ajah (mpolos note from Jude). So, that makes me think that the black ajah cannot recruit. They'd be pretty powerful if they had a recruit and a kill.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

Sabrar, I'm inclined to believe your claim. As to what you think, I do not think Madge would be godfather, as that would be strange in this sort of game. Your power was a one-shot, so if its the only cop power, godfather is kinda useless, plus if they were godfather, I would have thought they would have come up as unaligned, rather than as part of a faction. False inventor is certainly possible, but doubtful due to flavour (unless there are flavour reasons the ter-angreal could be booby trapped?)

That leaves Madge, mpolo, Sirgabriel, and dimochka on my townie list.

Leaving Sabrar, Carlington, bessie, and matt on my naughty list.

Here are D1 Votals:
Spoiler:
Votals:
Diemo (5) - JudeMorrigan, moody7277, matt96(x2), Sabrar
bessie (3) - Gopher of Pern, SirGabriel, ahippo
ahippo (1) - Carlington

D2:
Spoiler:
ahippo(5): Gopher of Pern, Carlington, JudeMorrigan, mpolo, ahippo
Madge(1): SirGabriel
SirGabriel(3): bessie, Madge, Sabrar


Factors to consider:
Bessie was leading votals D1, until Jude (scum) started a wagon on a town.
Carlington voted for ahippo both times. Has been lurking.
Sabrar voted for town D1, almost certain Elaida second (but everyone voted for an Elaida faction, except for Madge), and sealed Diemo's fate.
matt96 has been lurking pretty hard, and pretty much enabled Diemo to be lynched, but does have a double vote power.

I'm wondering how much emphasis we should put on the double vote being a town ability. In this game of opposing town cults, it'd be powerful in either cults hands. Unless they are neutral town, and non-recruitable, I don't think we should dismiss the possibility they are scum.

Possible scum teams:
bessie - Carlington. Possible. I don't feel it. Possibly due to Carlington's lurkiness, but I don't feel any connections between them, and the votes don't help.

bessie - matt96. Likely. Jude and matt save bessie from a D1 lynching. Lay low during D2 because of all the Elaida business.

bessie - Sabrar. Possible. Sabrar took the opportunity to unvote bessie when she wasn't leading the votals anymore.

Carlington - matt. Possible. Both very lurkery, so it's hard to get a read on them.

Carlington - Sabrar. Unlikely. Little interaction between them, and less reasons for the votes.

matt - Sabrar - Possible. Less reason for votes on D1.

I might have a bias against bessie, due to my previous suspicion for her, but there is the alternate bandwagon formed by Jude that ultimately saved her. I still think she is most likely scum. Which actually puts matt as next likely, followed by Sabrar, then Carlington.

Matt, Sabrar, what were your reasons for picking Diemo over bessie?

I'll look more into their posts later, but for now:

Vote:bessie
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:06 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Also, if you're undecided then it's better to get rid of a lurker than someone who has plenty of content.


Day 1 I would tend to agree with you. Later days... I feel this is less important, as if you let scum get away with posting a lot, that gives them more chance to sway town, whereas you can leave the lurking scum lie.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:04 pm UTC

SirGabriel, you're missing the fact that the black Ajah have a NK now. We lynch Madge, and then another town dies, that leaves 2 scum with 7 players, with the 5 town still at each others throats. It'd be even worse if dim is modkilled.

I don't see how you can think there is a possibility that madge is black ajah. Any Siuan supporters would know that madge is not on their team, or if she has been recruited, they would know she is lying about being a supporter from day 1.

That said, bessie's suggestion is a good one. Offer to ask how many black ajah were voting for Diemo day 1, and madge might stay the dagger, at least for one night.

Sabrar wrote:
matt96 wrote:I suppose the idea was that the Black ajah was intended to try to avoid getting exposed while letting the siuan and elaida's factional conflict weaken town.
I would think that a scum team with no chat and no factional ability would be quite weak, but with other competing factions that can draw attention to themselves that's a possibility.


I really don't like this. It is completely downplaying the scum in this game. Yeah, no initial NK and no chat makes them weaker than the traditional scum. But they had a misinformation power, plus 2 other likely powers. And ther was a faction that was expressly told that they weren't a threat, along with basically 2 competing towns who want to lynch each other. If dim didn't get the kill off last night, we'd have Jude still in the game, and we would probably think that there were no scum. If madge and SirGabriel keep going at each other, scum will probably win.

In fact, with your emphasis on things I consider to be very low probabilities (false inventor), and constant misrepresentation of other people, I'm really starting to think you're one of the scum.
Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:bessie - Sabrar. Possible. Sabrar took the opportunity to unvote bessie when she wasn't leading the votals anymore.
Correction: I unvoted bessie when she still would have been lynched.

Correcting your correction: You unvoted bessie when you could ensure someone else was lynched. So you essentially saved bessie. That was me being unclear. My point still stands.

Unvote
Vote: Sabrar


I'm thinking a Sabrar - bessie scum team atm. I'm thinking it's more likely that Sabrar is scum than bessie though.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:31 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:In fact, with your emphasis on things I consider to be very low probabilities (false inventor),
Please re-read any of my previous games, it's simply how I play, considering every possible option. If you're unwilling to do the effort, just re-read Pen Pal D3.

Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm thinking a Sabrar - bessie scum team atm.
Of course. I bus my team-mate early in the game (which btw I never do, especially not if I can't get their consent due to having no chat) and then I wait until the original deadline is past by 2 hours to heroically jump in and save her. Brilliant deduction.


I'm not reading other games. It's fine that you mention low probabilities. Laudable even. But suggesting to waste a truthful deduction on a low probability goes way beyond.

I'm not going to take your word on bussing team mates. You were a very early vote on bessie, to distance yourself as scum buddies. Then it got out of hand. But then you found yourself in a perfect position to switch.

Of course, it could be just you and not bessie who are scum. After all, its not like you've done much scum hunting recently.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:41 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm not reading other games.
Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm not going to take your word on bussing team mates.
So you're basically saying that you think everyone plays the game absolutely the same, that previous games of a given player do not matter when establishing that player's meta and that you do not make the effort to consider otherwise. Great job. And yes, that was me misrepresenting you again but I guess I came pretty close with my interpretation.


Or, a players meta can change, and reading through previous games may help, but ultimately is a lot of work for little gain (see: ahippo).

But yeah, keep focusing on those points, and not the rest of my argument, it's really helping your case here.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:42 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I don't see how you can think there is a possibility that madge is black ajah. Any Siuan supporters would know that madge is not on their team, or if she has been recruited, they would know she is lying about being a supporter from day 1.
Is it possible Siuan and her supporters don’t know each other’s identities? I’m not expecting anyone to answer this. Just think about it. Because I think the scum team is Sabrar and Madge.


Presumably, Siuan (or the leader of the faction) would know who they recruit. So any supporter that the leader doesn't know would be an initial supporter. Unless they recruit randomly? Seems far fetched, but it's a possibility.

Matt? Carlington? Dim? We're talking in circles here if you don't chip in.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:20 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@Gopher of Pern: let's try this one more time in case you're not scum and really want my opinion.

1. You state that I act in ways that you find scummy.
2. I state that I can show you previous examples where I behaved in the exact same way (and btw that includes misreading rules/misunderstanding people)
3. You state that you don't care.
4. How do you think I should reply to that? I offer you proof that what you see is not scummy and you disregard that. You just state that "player's meta can change" but this is not meta, it's the core of who I am IRL.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Unless they recruit randomly? Seems far fetched, but it's a possibility.
Look who's bringing up low probabilities now. Double standards much?

bessie wrote:Is it possible Siuan and her supporters don’t know each other’s identities? I’m not expecting anyone to answer this. Just think about it. Because I think the scum team is Sabrar and Madge.
Could you elaborate on how the two things are in any way related?

Read-list coming in the afternoon (probably, depends on work).


Just because you do those things as town does not preclude you from doing them as scum. You addressed maybe two of my points? Your defense was, I do that as town. That does not make it not scummy. Especially in different games. (Sorry for the double negative.)

Double standards? Hell, I said that pointing them out is a good thing, but you are focusing on it. You wanted someone to use a question on it! That is what I find scummy, not simply pointing it out. Plus, I wasn't the one to bring it up. I was following someone elses thought.

Your constant misrepresentation is my biggest scum tell. Your lack of scum hunting this day is my next biggest.

Frankly, defending yourself by saying, "Oh it's who I am" is the weakest defence in the book. This is a game in which it is fundamental that people lie and manipulate others to win. Yes, even as town (especially in this particular game).

Trying to make things clear: Saying "I do this as town" Does not mean you are not scum. As scum, you are trying to be as townie as possible, so that would mean you would do those things anyway. Thats why I find your defence so lacking. Do you act different as scum? Do you not do those things I mentioned as scum? I very much doubt it.

Provide a new defence if you want me to move my vote. Frankly, if you are town, your focus on this issue, and other low probability stuff, distracts us from real scum hunting.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:56 am UTC

Carlington wrote:I alluded to this earlier (D2 IIRC), and I still think it's better not to elaborate.


I still don't get it. Do you mean the cryptic message you put up after claiming role cop? We know you targeted SirGabriel N2, but who did you target N1? bessie? The only thing I can think why you wouldn't say is if you targeted her, and she shows up as Siuan, and she recruited you.

matt96 wrote:Just want to confirm I'm reading this correctly before a larger post tonight. Sabrar, are you voting for me obecause you believe me to be Siuan, not a member of the black ajah?


I hope you actually post something. We've been lied to before. *sniff*

Been rereading through Jude's posts. His early townlist is interesting:
1. JudeMorrigan
Duh

2. SirGabriel
3. moody
4. Sabrar

These three form a tier for me. I feel like SirGabriel's smacking me with the clue stick about the content of the rules I'd skimmed over was on point. I feel like all three have been trying to make real analysis of the bessie-dim interactions and even if I don't know that I entirely agree with their conclusions, I approve of scumhunting. I consider it extremely unlikely that my D1 vote will go to any of these three.

5. mpolo

Reads townie to me, but I feel like I have less to go on that with the previous three.

6. bessie
7. dimochka

Yeah, I've got bessie middle of the pack. The arguments against her are cogent and reasoned, but dagnabbit, their interactions read town-on-town to me. I can't ignore the more experienced players reads, but for now I'm going with my gut.

8. Gopher of Pern
9. matt96

These two are complete "mwrr, I have no idea". The ordering for these two was completely arbitrary.

10. ahippo

Now, given the mistakes I've made, I can't hold his screwing up the number of ajahs against him. But I still can't shake the feeling that he's Elaida. He seems awfully confident she's in the game. This may be confirmation bias, but his "I'm not expecting to be much of a leader" jumped out at me during my reread as potentially being signaling to his factionmate(s). I still think that if I'm right about this that he wouldn't be black ajah. So I'm very much hoping I have more decisive reads in that direction after my Saturday reread.

11. carlington

Carlington's really more of an Incomplete than anything else. He had warned us that he'd be absent the first couple of rl days. Looking forward to hearing from you!

12. diemo


Three of the people they put sort of on their own have turned up to be town. It would make sense that they would try to obfuscate fellow scum with other people. Which leaves a
GoP - matt pair
bessie - dim pair
SirGabriel - Madge - Sabrar trio

I think I will take Sabrar's points to heart (Yes, I was listening to you, even if I disagree with most of your points)
Unvote
Vote: matt96


If matt is scum, a double vote is pretty powerful. If they're town, they aren't helping anyway. I've got a heavy feeling that one of bessie or Sabrar is mafia, but I can't be sure which one. I'm hoping Carlington can provide some information that may help one way or another.

Thinking hard about everything, I feel like these are the most likely pairings:
matt - Sabrar
bessie - Carlington
matt- bessie
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D3)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:03 am UTC

Carlington wrote:Look, I'm squinting real hard at why you're pressing for more info.

Apparently, though, what I claimed may not have been what I meant. According to mafiawiki, normally rolecop just gets the role name, nothing else. Is that the case? Because I get the entire role as a result - name, power, Ajah, wincon, alignment.


Of course I'm pressing. You are fairly confident that bessie is not scum. FMPOV, that would make your decision on who to vote for pretty simple, yet you have not voted. The only way I think you are town is if you and bessie are both in Siuan's faction, which is why you hesitate to reveal results. But that would make both Sabrar and matt96 scum? With Sabrar voting for matt? Doesn't make sense.

Unless we're missing something about mpolo or dim? But no one has counterclaimed dim....unless dim is scum, and Jude killed themselves? (Bit weird, but hey, I'm confused here.) Or mpolo knew that Jude did not send a letter, and claimed one? With no scum chat?
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:45 am UTC

I'm here, I just don't have anything to say.

If it's between matt and sabrar, I'll vote for matt, simply on principle.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:43 pm UTC

So, Carlington still hasn't explained themselves from yesterday, dimochka has yet to provide details, bessie provides good points, but if SirGabriel is telling the truth, that makes her a very high chance of being scum.

Vote: matt96

Since nothing has really been said to change my mind.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:45 pm UTC

Unvote: Matt96

No one quickly jumped on...so that didn't tell us anything.

So I have this theory, but to confirm it, I'd have to know everyone's colour of their Ajah. IIRC, here are the current claimed colours. I see no reason why we can't claim now, and I think it will help with deciding between matt and Sabrar.

Sabrar - Uncalimed
mpolo - Unclaimed
Carlington - Unclaimed
moody7277/Madge - Confirmed Blue
dimochka - Claimed Green
bessie - Unclaimed
Gopher of Pern - Claimed Gray
SirGabriel - Claimed Red / Eliada
ahippo - Confirmed White
JudeMorrigan - Confirmed White / Black
Diemo - Confirmed Brown
matt96 - Unclaimed

Yes, I'm claiming Gray Ajah.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:20 am UTC

Sabrar - Uncalimed
mpolo - Unclaimed
Carlington - Unclaimed
moody7277/Madge - Confirmed Blue
dimochka - Claimed Green
bessie - Unclaimed
Gopher of Pern - Claimed Gray
SirGabriel - Claimed Red / Eliada
ahippo - Confirmed White
JudeMorrigan - Confirmed White / Black
Diemo - Confirmed Brown
matt96 - Claimed Gray

Thanks matt, missed that one.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:10 am UTC

Sabrar - Claimed red
mpolo - Unclaimed
Carlington - Claimed red
moody7277/Madge - Confirmed Blue
dimochka - Claimed Green
bessie - Claimed yellow
Gopher of Pern - Claimed Gray
SirGabriel - Claimed Red / Eliada
ahippo - Confirmed White
JudeMorrigan - Confirmed White / Black
Diemo - Confirmed Brown
matt96 - Claimed Gray

bessie: through information only known to me. I'm going to share the information soon, I just need to check some things first.

Sabrar: If someone tried to jump on to put pressure on, it might give away some information. Alas, no one did that.

Once mpolo claims I will reveal my thoughts.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:17 pm UTC

Sabrar - Claimed red
mpolo - Claimed initial no colour
Carlington - Claimed red
moody7277/Madge - Confirmed Blue
dimochka - Claimed Green
bessie - Claimed yellow
Gopher of Pern - Claimed Gray
SirGabriel - Claimed Red / Eliada
ahippo - Confirmed White
JudeMorrigan - Confirmed White / Black
Diemo - Confirmed Brown
matt96 - Claimed Gray

So. That actually makes me feel good about my theory.

12 players. 7 Ajah colours. 3 scum. 2 players who do not have a colour.

My theory was that there would be 1 of each Ajah colour among town, and scum would be the only ones duplicating. That leaves 2 players who would not have a colour. One would be Siuan, who is colourless. I had theorised that the other would be Elaida, not that she's colourless, but she is the leader of the other recruiting faction, so a double up on red would be expected. But mpolo being a back up townie explains it soo much better.

Therefore, the double ups we have are:
Red - Sabrar, Carlington, and SirGabriel
Gray - Gopher, matt

So, two are town, one is lying Siuan, two are lying scum.

My bets are on Carlington and Sabrar being the scum. I doubt SirGabriel is lying about being Eliada. Carlington has been giving me scum vibes since yesterday, with their cageyness about answering questions. Sabrar I did notice things yesterday, which still ping me. And it would make sense to me that matt could be Siuan, with a double vote, as she's supposed to be the leader of the Ajah.

What do people think?
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:36 pm UTC

It appeals to me. And it makes a lot of things fall into place.

The additional information hinges on what someone said. I do not trust that person any more.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am UTC

Carlington wrote:If colour duplication indicating scum is the running theory, let the record show that I am actually Red, not Black masquerading.


So, you're town, not scum?

What led me to think this is both ahippo and Jude were both white, however, one was black as well.

Carlington, are you confident that your ability would detect that they are black?

bessie wrote:Re: Gopher of Pern’s color theory.
I’ve been working on theories involving the colors for a while. See this post. So I think your theory lines up with many of my thoughts. I’m a little wary of mpolo because I think his claim is possible but his content is questionable. Also, since you group yourself with matt, you clear yourself tomorrow if you’re both scum. I believe Carlington has some kind of cop power, even if he hasn’t been completely truthful about it. It could be Carlington is a scummy role cop, however I’m not yet discarding the possibility of Carlington being town. Or the possibility that Siuan is an NPC and another Blue is the Team Siuan leader/recruiter. But tomorrow, we will definitely know which one of [Sabrar, matt] is Black Ajah, and we may additionally know the other’s color (if we lynch town), so things may fall into place.


Looking at your previous post, something stuck out to me.

Faction 1: Black Ajah
Black/White, Alviarin Freidhen, possible Godfather, cops as White. Recruiter, controls Myddralls.
Power speculation: D1 recruit, for game mechanics (ensure game doesn’t end D1). Alternate recruit/night kill. Can recruit any other player in the game.

Faction 2: Suian Supporters
Blue, Suian Sanche, SirGabriel. Recruiter, alternate night or limited.
Blue, Leane Sharif, ahippo.
Power speculation: Recruit on Faction 3 or unaligned Red will fail. Can be secretly recruited by Faction 1. Can false recruit Faction 1.

Faction 3: Elaida Supporters
Red, Elaida a’Roihan, Recruiter.
Red, (unknown).
Power speculation: Recruit on Faction 2 or unaligned Blue will fail. Can be secretly recruited by Faction 1. Can false recruit Faction 1.

Unaligned until recruited:
Red
Blue
Green
Yellow
White
Brown, Diemo (tracker/watcher)
Grey, Matt (double voter)


Why did you think that the black Ajah can be false recruited?
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:22 am UTC

bessie, please stop assuming I say things. I was enquiring as to how you came to your conclusion before information from SirGabriel came to light. I fully believe that the recruiting factions can recruit black Ajah. You seem to have more information than vanilla town. That's all I'm saying (and have been saying).

Ok, here's a question: What are the chances that SirGabriel is lying about there being scum on the lynch? With one supporter of each faction now lynched, they seem to be on an equal footing, so they could have picked those two people as people he hasn't recruited, and he wouldn't care which one got lynched.

Things Carlington has said have pinged me. I believe them to be either a supporter for one side, or black Ajah.

Sabrar wrote:As soon as it was clear that the lynch on D2 would be between SirGabriel and ahippo I obviously wanted to lynch Elaida. On D3 I really hoped Madge would think along these lines and kill SirGabriel, unfortunately that didn't happen either. So basically now I see no way of achieving a double-win, so I'm forced to reveal myself to have a chance at my main win-con. If you lynch me I lose entirely, if you lynch matt96 then there will be 1 scum remaining and as we won't lynch either Elaida or Siuan there is no reason for me to side with scum now.


If we lynch matt, and they are scum, yes it would be silly to side with scum, but as you're claiming to be an independant, I'm not sure we should be ready to trust you. You can win with any side, so we can't rule out you backstabbing us, especially if you can get the leaders lynched or killed.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:23 pm UTC

Vote: matt96
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D4)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:29 pm UTC

Yeah, the whole night starting right before I wake up in the morning sucks. But it's a soft deadline isn't it? So It's not official until mod comes in?

Not that it matters. You reached 3 first. The tie doesn't help.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D5)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:08 am UTC

You just always seemed to be on the point with what is going on. My conclusion was you either were a very good guesser, or scum. I'm now convinced you are not scum.

Your role is still secret. I have no idea what you do. All I know is that you've got scum scared to share what you can do. You also keep on misinterpreting what I say, which is something Sabrar did, and they turned out to be scum.

My vote for matt96 was purely for meta reasons. The last day I became disheartened that people weren't listening to each other. Or contributing much.

Not that you're going to believe me. I find your sudden interest in voting for me quite quaint. Someone visited you last night, perchance? Everything I have done has been to remove the black Ajah. With people so short-sighted around here, it's amazing anything gets done.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests