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Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:48 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@dimochka: quick reaction before I'm off, might not understand your point exactly. To me it looks like JudeMorrigan's and moody's list correlate to a very high degree, based on the same limited dataset. The only big difference is that Jude puts ahippo (who also stands out to you) much further down than moody (who in fact has him as most townie). Why do you feel unsure about Jude's list and consider moody's okay?
Also did your post contain your thoughts I asked about previously?

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:25 am UTC
by Gopher of Pern
Don't have long to post, but in response to your question Sabrar, bessie simply stated that they needed to start somewhere. That is not a reason for specifically including a recruiter. Other people have responded with what the mod said (about changing alignments), which gives more reason to, but bessie did not at the time. Hence why I thought they were dodging the question.

Other ideas will come tomorrow when I have more time.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:43 pm UTC
by mpolo
O.K. I've been thinking a little about what we could be expecting in terms of roles in this game.

Spelling is going to be iffy, because I usually just learn to recognize the names while reading without really noting the spelling.

Siuan (Amyrlin) - seems to be probable, unless some "event" is going to result in her being deposed as an NPC
Leane (Keeper, Blue) - Similar to Siuan. Might be the blue sister mentioned below.
Elaida (Red) - due to her role in the book, seems very likely to be a named character here. I'm not sure about a power, though
Alviarin (White/Black) - Most likely the head of the Darkfriends, unless a Forsaken is here as well.

Based on the mod's comment, I suspect most of the rest are going to be made up characters. I would expect at least one from each Ajah, with some of those being secretly Black. I suspect that their powers relate more to their original Ajah than to the Black.

Red : punishes wrong use of power (maybe a role-block or jailer?)
Green : readies itself for battle (vigilante?)
Gray: diplomacy, mediation, politics (something with votes?)
Brown: knowledge (some sort of investigative role?)
Yellow: healing (obvious doctor here)
Blue: righteousness and justice (some kind of cop?)
White: logic and philosophy (some kind of cop?)

That would account for 7-11 roles. Other roles could be Novices or Accepted (backups or vanilla), Warders (some sort of lover or half-lover mechanic is likely here along with a protective power), a member of the Forsaken (dangerous!). I doubt that we will get much farther from Aes Sedai than that (I don't expect maids and cooks, for instance.)

INTERNET PROBLEM: I wrote this at 10:00 am. Let's see when I manage to send it... (I plan to ignore ninjas...)

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:55 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@moody7277, Gopher of Pern: thank you for your replies, they look reasonable to me.

@mpolo: do you have a specific reason to suspect that every Ajah is represented, or is it simply based on flavor-speculation?

Request mod-prod on matt96.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:20 pm UTC
by bessie
When I first skimmed mpolo’s latest post my first thought was to dismiss it as just another active-lurking-flavor discussion post, but upon reflection I found it quite helpful. A few days ago I asked someone at work to help me out a little with the flavor, so what the heck I’ll post what I think. Here’s my contribution to the flavor/setup discussion. Correct me if I get the flavor wrong.

Suian Sanche is good, and remains good, throughout the whole series. But she made a mistake in hiding what she knew about Rand from the other Aes Sedai, and left an opening for others to depose her. Her supporters can be of any color except Red, and are good, even when they are the rebels. This is probably the town faction.

Elaida a’Roihan is Red Ajah, powerful, egotistical, and wants to be the Amyrlin. She uses Suian Sanche’s mistakes as an opportunity to depose her. But Elaida is not Black and never becomes Black (she was merely manipulated by them). Elaida and her supporters can be any color except Blue, and they’re not necessarily bad, they just have a differing opinion as to what is best for the Tower. They are probably not the mafia faction, and could be an anti-town or anti-mafia faction, or truly independent of either.

The Black Ajah can be any color. And they’re definitely bad. Mafia.

And now that I’ve reread the latest flavor post in a different light, does anyone know who this is? Is there a character that has green hair? By the time I get to ask someone who might know, D1 will be over.
kalira wrote:You look up to see a novice in white as she turns the corner away from you. She looks to be on a mission from the Creator himself and appears to take no notice of your gathering -- you surmise that some Aes Sedai has sent her to look for a book and put the fear of the Mistress of Novices into her. But... you could swear that her hair was green and in buns that almost look like ears on top of her head. What a strange child.


Now back to the game.
ahippo wrote:What scum-hunting strategies have worked for you in the past?
None. I’m not a good scum hunter. I can’t get a scummy read by analyzing someone’s behavior and build a case against them. I just look for technical things that are wrong with their posts, and I tend to tunnel. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. For examples of both see Secret Santa 2016.

ahippo wrote:Do you generally prefer to act based on assumptions then change if your assumptions prove wrong, or wait until you're confident?
I used to wait. And then I regretted that I didn’t post more often. It’s less fun for everyone if we all sit around waiting to see what others are going to do because we’re afraid to stick our necks out. And I don’t want to be an observer; I want to be part of the game. Of course, this strategy does involve some risk. Like how I’m now leading the votals.

ahippo wrote:When do you think it's appropriate for a townie to claim their role?
I actually think townies tend to overclaim to avoid the lynch, but I understand why. Claim only when the information can only help town more than scum.

ahippo wrote:If you were an Aes Sedai, which Ajah would you pick?
I didn’t do too much in depth research on the different ajahs, but maybe the White (INTJ?).

Diemo wrote:First thing that I have noticed is that there is a lot of people are picking on dimochka. Three people voting him for a joke vote at the start? Seems like a lot.
I think I’m the only one picking on dimochka. Everyone else is defending him. Two of those votes were jokes, mine was serious. And the reason wasn’t for the militant atheist remark in itself. It was because dimochka brushed off something he said by using the excuse that anything posted in the confirmation stage isn’t relevant game content. I believe that if you post something in thread (not counting real life announcements etc), it’s fair to consider it part of the game. You don’t get to pick out something and later say ignore that, I wasn’t really playing (as dimochka did). What’s to keep scum from doing that whenever they make a slip? And where are the boundaries? You don’t have to agree with me, but FoS everyone that has not understood the point that I am trying to make. Because I think some of you secretly understand me perfectly. I will FoS you individually when I get around to making my list.

Diemo wrote:But I like lynching the mod. (I played a game once where we insisted on lynching the mod despite the mod telling us that lynching him was impossible - good times :) )
Interesting. The alleged proof of my scumminess is that I should have known that this role is never actually used in any games.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Don't have long to post, but in response to your question Sabrar, bessie simply stated that they needed to start somewhere. That is not a reason for specifically including a recruiter. Other people have responded with what the mod said (about changing alignments), which gives more reason to, but bessie did not at the time. Hence why I thought they were dodging the question.
I don’t agree. What is an acceptable seup spec? I guess I could have said this:
JudeMorrigan wrote:Had I made any setup speculation early, it would have been something like 7-3-1-1 with a sk purely because it seems like most games here have one and maybe some sort of a survivor-ish role. That may be scum heavy - I don't really have a good feel for what makes a balanced game numbers-wise.
Someone presents almost this exact same setup spec with these exact same reasons in every game. It’s not wrong to do so, it’s safe and gives no hints as to the guesser’s alignment, but where does it get us? This setup and reasons are used by players so often because it is usually very accurate. That’s why no one is talking about JudeMorrigan’s setup spec. I believe my setup spec may be on the close limit of balance and gameplay, but I don’t see it as impossible or even completely totally unreasonable. And I really didn’t feel I needed to quote all the places the mod said that a player’s alignment/win condition could change.

Now about the setup spec itself, and the possibility of a recruiter, that’s a guess.
bessie wrote: How about sharing your setup speculation?


I'm working on my town-scum list now. It would be nice if I had some more content to work with.

Unvote.

Ninja'd by Sabrar.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:33 pm UTC
by Sabrar
bessie wrote:And now that I’ve reread the latest flavor post in a different light, does anyone know who this is? Is there a character that has green hair? By the time I get to ask someone who might know, D1 will be over.
kalira wrote:You look up to see a novice in white as she turns the corner away from you. She looks to be on a mission from the Creator himself and appears to take no notice of your gathering -- you surmise that some Aes Sedai has sent her to look for a book and put the fear of the Mistress of Novices into her. But... you could swear that her hair was green and in buns that almost look like ears on top of her head. What a strange child.

I believe that just describes kalira's avatar and has no actual game-related content.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:50 pm UTC
by kalira
Sabrar's interpretation is correct. The strange child was only meant to invoke the co-mod's avatar and has no bearing on the game. The co-mod was simply attempting to be flavorful. She considered adding a spoiler at the end of votals to clarify such, but ended up not doing so. She has been summarily self-flagellated.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:57 pm UTC
by bessie
Sabrar wrote:I believe that just describes kalira's avatar and has no actual game-related content.

...oh fucking hell...

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:59 pm UTC
by kalira
Matt96 has been prodded.

As a reminder, please make sure any night actions are sent to the mod and co-mods before day end.

Deadline is set for Monday, 23rd Jan, 7pm UTC. This is a soft deadline, so you may continue posting until a mod calls day end. Night may last for up to 24 hours or so (but it may only be a few hours), depending on how long it takes to write flavour and process night actions.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:33 am UTC
by JudeMorrigan
Hi, all! My competition went well! I'm home later than I'd intended, so this'll be some relatively brief off-the-cuff comments about the stuff that I'm seeing directly related to me. Hopefully I'll get another post in tomorrow focusing on the rest that happened while I was out.

Reactions to my list: I get you dim. I'd freely admitted that I didn't really have much in the way of strong scum reads in the post that had the list. (Don't really right now either, but I plan on a pretty thourough re-read tomorrow. Here's hoping!) For what it's worth, I'd like to be clear about how I'd intended the list, answering sabrar's question in the process. From my point of view, it was me, then three people I felt were reading pretty towny because they were trying to do real analysis. Then everyone until ahippo fit into the, "meh, they look ok, I guess" category. That said, I want to be crystal clear that I tried to order that blob the best I could, with my confidence in saying that going down as I go down the list. What separated, say, mpolo from gopher? Pretty much just instinct. I wish I had a better answer for you, but what can I say? It was the middle of D1. Then there was ahippo, who could have easily gone after the people with no content. But while he was pinging me, I didn't think it was likely he was Black. And then I had the lurkers, who I *couldn't* even say "meh, they look ok, I guess". So they wound up there almost by default. *Obviously* there are scum in that group somewhere. And I wrote that list considering most of the people on it to still be voteable.

Quick note on what was pinging me about ahippo: that while I had missed the part about the potential for alignment changing in the rules, I *had* seen the part that jimbob highlighted. While it seems reasonable to me to assume that there is a pro-Elaida faction in the game given the timeframe it takes place in, I hadn't been assuming that we had any plot characters at all in the game. Hence my being a bit taken aback by ahippo's "think[ing] it's safe to assume she's part of the game". But mpolo seems to be making similar assumptions (I think that if one *does* assume that there are plot characters in the game, ahippo's and mpolo's suggestions seem reasonable), so I don't know what to think now.

@bessie - yeah, the incredible banality of my setup spec was kind of my point. I completely understand the point of setup spec in a game like BttF or Dr Who where we know there are fundamentally funky things going on in the game. I'm not sure I understand the point of it in a game where you don't have that level of weirdness. You either get completely trivial speculation like I offered or have to wonder *why* someone's speculating something out of the ordinary. But yeah, competletely my bad on only having skimmed the rules. I simply missed the parts that SirG quoted.

Dinner calls now, and then probably stupidly-early-bed. I'll try really hard to get more in tomorrow. I know I glossed over a lot in this post.

spoiler for OT:
Spoiler:
Image
I'm the younger dude.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:11 am UTC
by Gopher of Pern
Well, I finally got bitten by the 'lost your post' bug. And it was a big one. Now I'm typing it all again, so apologies if I come across a bit harsh, as I am understandably annoyed right now.

Vote: bessie

Way too defensive. I asked for a reason to include a recruiter in your setup spec, and you give several non-answers, and protest that your speculation is not unreasonable. And you didn't feel the need to quote where the mod specifically said that their are possible alignment changes? That smacks of post-hoc justification. It's not as if people haven't misread the rules before. Your final reason is a guess? Yeah, I don't believe you.

I never said that your speculation was unreasonable, or wrong. I simply asked your reasons for it, as I found it unusual. Your defence of it has pinged me like nothing else in this game.

Onto ahippo's questions:

Scumhunting strategies I tend to use are pressure and vote-analysis. Early on I like to pressure people, to see reactions. Later on, I see how people vote, and their reasons for doing so. Not really sure how good the strategy is though.

What do you mean by act? Votes, yes, sure. I use the votes to apply pressure. Actions, well, thats very context specific.

On claiming, I do whatever I think will help my team win, so if I think claiming as town will help, I will do it. But then, due to the nature of the game, I do try to be on the wary side when it goes to claims, as I find the game to be less interesting if claiming is the best strategy.

I would probably be a brown Ajah, or possibly a white.

Now for some thoughts on people. The below was a bit more thought out in my previous post, but I have the gist below.

Sabrar - Playing how they played as town in previous game, with good searching questions. Possible Town.

mpolo - Has some content, was basically ok. Neutralish.

Carlington - One post. Lurker.

moody - Similar to how town moody has played in the past, with early scum listing, and decent analysis. Possible town.

dimochka - Confirmation post caused a stir. A bit light early, but good analysis later. Possible town.

bessie - With the above conclusion, plus their weirdness around dim's post, I am getting very bad vibes. Scummy.

SirGabriel - Is contributing well, some analysis. Possible Town.

ahippo - Good flavour analysis, I think the slip up was honest. Probable Town.

JudeMorrigan - Early on they pinged me with their comment on scum having a low profile, but have since contributed well. Neutralish.

Diemo - Lurker

matt- Lurker

Apologies for not filling them all out as much. I don't have time to go through all the posts again.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:27 am UTC
by mpolo
I have no real reason for thinking all Ajahs are represented, but it appeals to my sense of symmetry. Who knows what our mod thinks, though? If that's the case, though, 7 Ajahs + Amyrlin leaves four roles to be covered by others (Warders and the like), or a second representative of some Ajahs. At first I thought that a Keeper would be "extra", but I think she officially belongs to her Ajah, so would be Blue in the time period we are talking about. The Amyrlin herself belongs to no Ajah.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:53 pm UTC
by SirGabriel
Day end kind of snuck up on me, and I'll be pretty busy from now until deadline, so I doubt I'll have time for a good analysis post before day end. So here's my attempt at a town-to-scum list, based off a very quick reread:

Town
Gopher of Pern
mpolo
moody7277
dimochka
Sabrar
ahippo
JudeMorrigan
Diemo
Carlington
matt96
bessie
Scum

Vote: bessie

Can one of the mods post official votals?


I've got to go now, I should be around to phone-post for the next 8 hours or so if anyone has questions, but I'm not sure how much I'll be able to say about why I ranked anyone where I did until I get back to my computer.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:15 pm UTC
by Carlington
I went straight from a busy week a work into a 48-hour game jam. This post is my response to prod, but it's 1am so I'm going to sleep. Morning I'll put a post, I haven't read the thread yet.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:59 pm UTC
by matt96
Phone post,don't expect too much.
ahippo wrote:
  • What scum-hunting strategies have worked for you in the past?
  • Do you generally prefer to act based on assumptions then change if your assumptions prove wrong, or wait until you're confident?
  • When do you think it's appropriate for a townie to claim their role?

    And just for fun, (any answer to this last question I don't consider to be related to anything in game)
  • If you were an Aes Sedai, which Ajah would you pick?



  • I have found that the only successful method of determining scum I've used is process of elimination. See Werewolf as an example
  • I tend to hold out for confirmation or necessity when it comes to killing powers, and act less cautiously with other sorts of actions.
  • I tend to look at claiming as an inevitability for the most part, as some day will be the last day of the game, and the more concrete information exists by that point, the easier it will be for the remaining town to pick out the remaining scum.
  • From what I'be read, I am rather partial towards the Brown Ajah.

I was considering asking if people wanted to claim their Ajahs, but given that it seems more likely that they correspond to powers than someone having something like Verin Mathwin's list of members of the black ajah, or some sort of Ajah cop, although I do still expect that the number of us in each ajah generally corresponds to the proportion of each in the White Tower, meaning that the most common ajah is probably red, and there being at most one white.

As far as my thoughts on the win condition mentioned in the PM to all players, it sounds to me to be effectively town that has a secondary condition that is required to win, much like http://www.mafiadata.com/role.php?mafia ... %20Sibling

What sticks out the most to me regarding Bessie's initial rolespeculation is how it seems the entire point of it is to be intentionally provocative. I can't find a single thing I like about it from the comment about only some town being receuitable, to the only 2 mafia, to the lack of accounting for the faction we know to exist, and despite not liking, Bessie's defense of the spec, I don't find it to be indicative of scum.

It was mentioned that in the last WoT game, the win condition changing had to do with the Independent. Has anyone else considered that the win condition of the strong leader faction might change in some way should a weak leader come in to power?

That's all I've got for now, I'll be online sporadically for the next 10 hours, then I'll have time to respond more in depth to anything which comes up.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:49 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
A strong gust of wind blows in through the open window, ruffling the cloaks of the assembled sisters, and flipping over the pages of open books. A piece of paper floats down off a nearby shelf. What it was doing there, nobody could quite tell, but once again it had the latest votes.

Votals:
bessie (4) - dimochka, Sabrar, Gopher of Pern, SirGabriel

Not voting: everyone else

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:19 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Don't have too much time right now, so quick analysis of our 3 'lurkers':

- Carlington: IRL issues mentioned at the start, not a lot of content, mentions the Traitor mechanic.
Carlington wrote:I thought for a moment that perhaps factions would be split out into the different Ajahs, but it makes more sense for it to be Black Ajah vs. The Rest, I guess.
This looks like he is unsure about who his enemies are, which indicates Town. Eagerly awaiting more content.

- Diemo: claims IRL issues after prod. Misreads situation re: dimochka (possibly intentional, hard to see how random votes were interpreted otherwise). Goes against general consensus and suggests possibility of Red Ajah being scum. Some irrelevant stuff. Speculates on possible roles being present but leaves himself open. Goes back to lurking. Scummy.

- matt96: first post is just speculation on a situation that might or might not occur during the game. Seems not to have the read the thread as he doesn't have any opinions about actual game-related stuff. Second post comes after prod, mentions only bessie, doesn't like her content but isn't concerned about it. Speculates on some other stuff which is a very safe way to avoid having to commit himself. Looks scummy but I also get an indie feel from him.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:04 pm UTC
by bessie
First of all congratulations JudeMorrigan, on earning a place on the podium in your competition!

JudeMorrigan wrote:@bessie - yeah, the incredible banality of my setup spec was kind of my point. I completely understand the point of setup spec in a game like BttF or Dr Who where we know there are fundamentally funky things going on in the game. I'm not sure I understand the point of it in a game where you don't have that level of weirdness. You either get completely trivial speculation like I offered or have to wonder *why* someone's speculating something out of the ordinary.
First of all, there was nothing wrong with your setup spec or with providing it. At least you responded to my request for content (I asked Gopher of Pern twice for his setup spec and nothing). It’s pretty accurate for most games. But why don’t you think there’s any level of weirdness in this game?


I kinda want to reply to Gopher of Pern's latest post, but I want to think it through a little. I'm not ignoring you, I just don't want to delay posting the rest of this because deadline is in 22 hours.


Sabrar wrote:This looks like he is unsure about who his enemies are, which indicates Town. Eagerly awaiting more content.
It looks to me like you are trying really hard to find a reason to stick the town label on Carlington.



Alphabetical player list:

ahippo – Intro post where he lets us know in advance he’s not a great player and not to expect much, some setup spec, oh and he’s going to be active. Next post is more setup spec based on flavor. Third post setup/flavor spec, and an alleged joke that JudeMorrigan is reading as a scum slip. His last post has some discussion questions, and he manages to remind us a couple of places in this post that he is not a good scum hunter. I guess he didn’t want anyone to forget that. I don’t see any player analysis or scum hunting, but I do see a lot of excuses for not providing any. Hasn’t posted for a few days.

Carlington – First post, has RL issues flavor/setup spec. Second post, 3 sentences explaining that he’s been too busy to read the thread. So, zero real content, but oddly enough content for Sabrar to label him town.

Diemo – One post, flavor/setup spec. His differs from others in that he doesn’t quickly jump on the safe Black Ajah=mafia setup that everyone else is willing to go along with.

dimochka – Made a joke in his confirmation post, whatever. But then tried to dismiss it later by saying confirmation posts don’t count as relevant content. Votes for me for a valid reason. Goes along with the Black Ajah=mafia crowd, and offers no alternatives for discussion. Finally makes a post with some content. And it’s a pretty good post, he has more content in that one post than some people have in the entire thread. Unfortunately promises of more content have not yet materialized.

Gopher of Pern – Read a little flavor. I think he was the first to suggest the Black Ajah are the mafia. And he questioned my setup spec, and why I put a recruiter in my spec. Two additional posts on the same subject, the only subject he has discussed up to that point, but accuses me of dodging questions in both. Finally a player analysis (complete) which is a little terse but the forum ate his original post (reasonable excuse, we’ve all been there, but unfortunately makes this a more difficult read). He votes for me and gives reasons to back up his vote, so I consider this a valid vote even if I obviously don’t agree with it.

JudeMorrigan – Intro post, newbie. Picks up on a mistake in ahippo’s “joke” which he interprets as a scum slip. Some flavor info. Concerned with my setup spec; suspects bessie knows something more than she is letting on. Gut feeling scum is maintaining a low profile (agree). Revisits bessie suspicion in his next post, along with a nice safe setup spec. Posts a town-scum list, nothing particularly stands out to me except the part on ahippo. Latest post, see my reaction above.

matt96 – Fluff. Wait, finally posted some content with one day left in the game. Answers ahippo’s questions. More on flavor/setup spec. Mentions me by name (the only player he has mentioned by name). Maybe he will post some reads on other players in time for it to be useful.

moody7277 – Flavor/setup. Second post is dimochka/bessie reactions. His third post I’ve analyzed in depth. Player reads list, ordered, but doesn’t quite want to call anyone scum (even left himself an out with bessie). Unfortunately nothing for a couple days, but still he is near the top of the list of players who have posted actual content.

mpolo – Flavor info. Flavor/setup spec. Flavor. Remark on dimochka/bessie interaction, but no analysis or conclusion. Answers ahippo’s questions. Long post trying to extrapolate a reasonable mafia game setup from the flavor. A lot of words. And finally, one last post discussing flavor/setup. Number of player mentions by name in his posts: bessie (2), dimochka (1), ahippo (1).

Sabrar – Questions for the new players. Theory about bessie, will let us know. Question for bessie. Setup compared to previous game. Question for dimochka (the way I read this question is that he wants dimochka to comment on bessie). Questions Gopher of Pern about bessie. Finally posts his analysis of bessie and makes a well-supported vote. Tries to draw other players into game discussion, and answers ahippo’s questions. Something feels different about his content. I can’t quite say what, but if I had to point to something (and I do because I brought it up) it would be that Sabrar waited a little longer that I would have expected before he really started pushing hard for content (waited until the case against bessie was wrapped up). See above for my reaction to his latest post.

SirGabriel – Flavor blind, setup and win condition speculation. Keeping an eye on bessie and dimochka. Some posts that I’ve already discussed, includes FoS bessie. Answers ahippo’s questions. Selects the purple ajah, claims to have selected a random color. I feel very uneasy about this, for reasons I’ll try to explain. If he didn’t want to commit to an ajah, that’s OK, he could have answered with a joke. Or maybe he did make a joke and I’m just being Captain Obvious for the millionth time in this thread. The part that bothers me is the part where he says that he doesn’t even know if purple is an option, and brushes it off like the colors aren’t even important enough to know. Didn’t the discussion of colors even make you curious as to why some people think they might be important to the game, and maybe take note of them? My gut tells me you’re Black Ajah.

As to your vote on me, I don’t think you have presented a valid case for your vote, which I assume is this. SirGabriel said in his last post that he’s going to be conveniently busy until deadline, so I don’t think we’ll see one.

My reply to your reasons for voting for me is this:
bessie wrote:Because I think some of you secretly understand me perfectly. I will FoS you individually when I get around to making my list.


Vote: SirGabriel

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:10 pm UTC
by Sabrar
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:This looks like he is unsure about who his enemies are, which indicates Town. Eagerly awaiting more content.
It looks to me like you are trying really hard to find a reason to stick the town label on Carlington.
While I can understand why you thought that, it was not meant as a final and decisive label on Carlington. It's just a gut feeling, the same we all use when trying to scum-hunt.

bessie wrote:I can’t quite say what, but if I had to point to something (and I do because I brought it up) it would be that Sabrar waited a little longer that I would have expected before he really started pushing hard for content (waited until the case against bessie was wrapped up).
Could you please tell me what you mean by 'the case against you being wrapped up'? Because you don't know me at all if you think I lean back contentedly after any case and do not continuously think about other possibilities.

Finally, you are very good at listing every possible reason why each player might be found scummy. Do you have any Town-reads?

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:45 pm UTC
by JudeMorrigan
Ok, I just did a re-read. Those comps take a heck of a lot out of me, so I apologize if this turns out to be less conherent than I hope.

First, quick respose to ahippo's question on scumhunting. My attempts at it usually boil down to my looking for inconsistencies and things that don't make sense given what I know about the game. Particularly early on in the game though, I feel like I've had more success picking out strong town candidates. Finding scum is obviously vastly superior, but my experience is that a handful of strong, correct town reads will take a player a long way. One thing I like to do once there are a few flips and some established interactions is to go down the list of remaining players and ask myself, "ok, assume this player is scum. What would *that* mean? Does it lead to nonsensical conclusions?" But there have to be some points of truth established for that to work.

Now, on bessie. I'm sorry, but she reads to me like a townie who tried to get conversation going only to have things go terribly awry. I wouldn't be *shocked* if she flips scum, but my definitive D1 judgement call for her is "likely town". Regarding the usefulness of setup speculation, I dunno. I'm still trying to figure out what does or doesn't work. My intitial reaction was just filler unless we were trying to figure out the rules of the game (I *still* don't really understand how the time travel mechanics in Dr. Who worked), but during my re-read, ahippo's setup spec jumped out at me (more on this in a few), so maybe I'm wrong. And as far as it goes, I don't have any specific reasons to suspect a "normal" breakdown of roles (and in fact, think my initial assumptions therein were likely wrong). It was a purely qualitative "seems like the weirdness in recent games has come from wacky roles rather than wacky setups".

Now, that said ... my re-read did not improve my opinion of ahippo. It's really not even about his getting the number of ajahs wrong. I'm pretty ok with chalking that one up to a dumb mistake of the sort I've been all too prone to making myself. I'd mentioned my suspicions that "I'm not expecting to be much of a leader." was him trying to send a signal to his faction mate(s). On re-read, this jumped out at me as well: "So it seems likely that there is more than one anti-town faction, or maybe one anti-town one neutral. Obviously, it's possible for the Amyrlin to die or get deposed so there's probably a mechanic to instate another one." Sure, sure. You can infer the second half of that from the extra PM we got, but ahippo ALSO went on to say in a subsequent post: "I guess if I were to update my sentiments on that PM, whomever has that win condition is likely pro-town but don't care who's Amyriln." Feels to me like he's trying to cover up a slip.

So in summary, I really do think that if he's not Elaida herself, he's part of a pro-Elaida faction, that he is NOT town but that the faction he's in is not the mafia. At this point in the day, he and the lurkers are my vote candidates. And at this point, he's looking rather lurky himself. In my first draft of this post, I voted for him here. In general, I'd feel pretty ok about doing so. I decided go a different way though.

At first, I just thought that Diemo's thoughts on the reds being mafia were interesting. Given that the game is set during book 4, I could have totally imagined a setup where the reds were the mafia IF the flavor hadn't mentioned the black ajah. If they're in the game though, they pretty much *have* to be the big bads. And then there's this:

"Definitely from like book 9 or so
Spoiler:
The leader of the red Ajah turned out to also be the leader of the Black


Ok, maybe I'm getting overexcited about simple mistakes, but I'm pretty sure this is not actually true. (Much later book spoiler)
Spoiler:
Galina
was certainly a black sister, but as mpolo correctly noted, Alviarin was the head of the black ajah. Maybe there's something else at play here, but I do not like the idea of directing our attention away from the black and towards the reds. Even given that as you could tell from my analysis of ahippo, I believe there's likely a pro-Elaida faction in the game that they're likely not town. So, as my best guess for a black ajah member:

vote: Diemo

Quick hits:

mpolo is looking a bit active lurkey to me. If I did another full town->scum list, he'd be a lot lower after the re-read. But more in a "worth keeping an eye on going forward" sense than "likely scum" one. A quick WoT-nerd thought on his role spec, I largely agree with it, but I'll add that if we assume there are plot characters in the game, the one non-Aes Sedai that would seem to make sense to me would be Min. She should be in the Tower during this time frame and her Pattern-reading abilities would have obvious utility for designing a role.

Gopher, on the other hand, is looking pretty good to me at this point.

I think bessie's case against SirG is interesting, but he's still a pretty strong town read to me.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:22 am UTC
by bessie
Attention lurkers: less than 12 hours until deadline! I’ve seen your names pop in and out of the “who is online” list all day and you’re not posting so I guess it’s scum chat. Approximately 8 hours until my final opportunity to post, and I’m going to be asleep most of those hours. If you are scum, good job. You’ve lurked your way to D2. Townies, fine, you don’t want to say the wrong thing and draw suspicion or get lynched. Well you aren’t going to be lynched. I’m going to be lynched. One of you is going to be night killed and your thoughts are going to die with you. If you are waiting to post until just before deadline, you’re doing it wrong, because it won’t generate any content. There won’t be time for everyone to respond.

Sabrar wrote:Could you please tell me what you mean by 'the case against you being wrapped up'? Because you don't know me at all if you think I lean back contentedly after any case and do not continuously think about other possibilities.
Well I certainly don’t want any misunderstandings between you and me, so I will try to explain more clearly what I meant.

bessie wrote:Sabrar – Questions for the new players. Theory about bessie, will let us know. Question for bessie. Setup compared to previous game. Question for dimochka (the way I read this question is that he wants dimochka to comment on bessie). Questions Gopher of Pern about bessie. Finally posts his analysis of bessie and makes a well-supported vote.
From my point of view, the first part of the day Sabrar is a little quieter than usual, and most of his content is bessie-focused. I think this slightly out of character, as Sabrar usually drives a lot more content on D1, and it is usually distributed among more players. But in all fairness I have not reread any games and I won’t have time before deadline so if you want to point out where I am wrong I will agree with you.

Sabrar votes for bessie. This is a valid, well supported vote. I have no problem with it (except that it’s for me). At that point in the game, I am the only player to receive a serious vote (except for the vote I placed). And there are no other lynch candidates. Things can turn pretty quickly in this game but there’s enough suspicion against me that this is probably the way the lynch is going to go.

bessie wrote:Tries to draw other players into game discussion, and answers ahippo’s questions. Something feels different about his content. I can’t quite say what, but if I had to point to something (and I do because I brought it up) it would be that Sabrar waited a little longer that I would have expected before he really started pushing hard for content (waited until the case against bessie was wrapped up). See above for my reaction to his latest post.
Only after your vote on me did you start pushing on other players. I don’t think you leaned back after making your case on me, actually I believe the opposite is true. And I believe that you continuously think about all possibilities. But from my point of view, it looks like you lined me up for today. Now you’ve moved on to others, but that’s preparation for tomorrow. So, Sabrar, can you see my point of view?

Sabrar wrote:Finally, you are very good at listing every possible reason why each player might be found scummy. Do you have any Town-reads?

Actually, my list was just how I am reading the game, and it wasn’t meant to be all scum reads. I think there were a few things I found townie sprinkled throughout that list. If I wanted to make a list with a scum read on everyone, I could have done that. Or with the exact same information, I could have made a list with a town read on everyone. So I think an ordered town-scum list would be more useful, but more difficult, due to the high number of lurkers. I’ll work on it.

For fun, post count through this one:
Spoiler:
ahippo 6
bessie 11
Carlington 3
Diemo 2
dimochka 5
Gopher of Pern 6
jimbobmacdoodle 9
JudeMorrigan 9
kalira 4
matt96 3
moody7277 6
mpolo 8
Sabrar 20
SirGabriel 9

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:58 am UTC
by Sabrar
@bessie: thank you for the detailed reply. I can certainly see where you're coming from, however I would like to point out one thing that I believe you didn't take into account:
My vote on you came relatively early during the day (2.5 IRL days after start), at that point most players are just carefully poking their heads out (as you mentioned as well). It's a lot harder to push for content when there is so little material to go on. Don't have the time to look through all my previous games, so just checked Secret Santa where we played together and I started my serious pushing there 3 days after the beginning of the game.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:42 am UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
A quick reminder that soft deadline is at 7pm, UTC, just under 10 and a half hours from now. The day can end at any point after that (all things being equal, it will be before 10pm, but could be shortly after 7). Please PM the mod and co-mods your night action by then. If you have a night action that you don't wish to use, please inform us explicitly, so that we don't have to wait for you.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:13 am UTC
by Sabrar
ahippo: lots of flavor speculation, no real content or scumhunting. This looks suspicious, however I'm reluctant to call him scummy because I have no experience regarding his normal play-style and I can accept the "I'm newbie-ish so I'm just going with the flow" defense (heavily paraphrased of course).

@ahippo: did you look for a specific response with your list of questions? What do you think you were able to learn from the answers?
@moody7277: why had you listed ahippo as your most townie read? Did your opinion of him changed since then?


dimochka: I've already commented on his MA joke and his reactions to bessie, also on some of the reads from last post. Getting a lurker feeling as he's promising content but fails to deliver, though if I remember correctly it's not that unusual from him.

@dimochka: please reply to my previous questions and post your town-scum list (and whatever else you have come up with since).

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:19 am UTC
by ahippo
Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions! The first one turned out to be the most important to my own investigation, but I appreciate them all. My second question was more an indicator of how people are willing to vote in this particular game. For the third question, I was thinking it might be reasonable for me to claim my Ajah, though I think most people would agree your Ajah proves very little even if you're telling the truth. Most of my time was spent pondering that first question.

I spent a long night looking at nearly ever game since I left. I admit that I skimmed most of the threads just to find out what I thought relevant. I specifically looked for three things.

1: Whether the D1 lynch was against someone anti-town.
2: Why the lynch happened, extremely simplified.
3: Who won in the end.

Ultimately, I didn't feel justified in declaring if any one reason was good or bad, but the numbers are solid.

These are my findings -

Spoiler:
Chaos Mafia - Correct D1 lynch on Freezeblade
Primary reasoning: Distrust of cops and cop results.
Mafia Win


Best Idea Mafia - Incorrect D1 lynch on mpolo
Primary reasoning: ... Because ... ?
Town Win (thanks to modkill)


Vanillafia - Incorrect D1 lynch on Dr Ug
Primary reasoning: Mod killed for rule breaking, counted as lynch
lynx would have been lynched, which would have been correct
Town Win


Hangafia - Correct D1 lynch on Nebduck
Primary reasoning: Acting strange over claimed role changes.
Perfect Town Win


Once Upon a Mafia - Correct D1 lynch on Vytron
Primary reasoning: Riding SDK really hard, then self-voting in defense.
Mafia Win


Mafia Cave - Incorrect D1 lynch on Vytron
Primary reasoning: Lied, then mason buddy never defended him even after mason claim.
Mafia Win


Draculafia - Correct D1 lynch on ConMan (serial killer)
Primary reasoning: Little game content, votes with little reason.
Town Win


Smalltown Werewolf - Correct D1 lynch on Opus_723
Primary reasoning: Rarely posted, mildly suspicious, not very useful power.
Town Win


2015 Secret Santa - Correct D1 lynch on Madge
Primary reasoning: FoSing people for less than great reasons and generally odd behavior.
Mafia Win


PyPokemon 2 - Correct D1 lynch on Sabrar
Primary reasoning: Honestly claimed power, attacked dimochka very hard.
Town Win


Wheel of Time 1 - Incorrect lynch on Madge
Primary reasoning: Light content, slightly suspicious play before replacement, no great alternatives.
Town Win (It would be Cauthon's luck to be the last one alive)


Shakespeare Mafia II - Incorrect lynch on heuristically_alone
Primary reasoning: Nearly admitted to being a lyncher, but really only last minute votes cynched it.
Town Win (That game was fantastic to read. So fun.)


Baker Street Irregulars - No Lynch D1 (First Lynch was Correct)
Primary reasoning: Tons of information on D2.
Town Win


Pen Pals Mafia - Correct D1 lynch on Djehutynakht, 50/50 for also correct lynch on Madge
Primary reasoning: Got in a fight with Madge (SK) and people both were suspicious.
Town Win


FAC668 - Incorrect D1 lynch on Carlington
Primary reasoning: Carlington said that it might be better for the cop not to claim (he was cop). That wasn't popular.
Town Win


Trial of the Pariahs - Incorrect D1 lynch on ConMan
Primary reasoning: Supposed active-lurking. Didn't think he had much to add.
Town Win


Impromptu Mafia - Correct D1 lynch on Sabrar
Primary reasoning: One half-reasonable vote on metagaming the mod, one joke vote, one vote manipulation.
Mafia Win

2016 Secret Santa - Correct D1 lynch on RoadieRich
Primary Reasoning: Didn't post.
Town Win


That's eighteen games.


13/18 Town Wins OR 72.2%
5/18 Mafia Wins OR 27.8%

Independent victories or losses are not considered in this list.

11/18 Correct (that benefit town) Day One Lynches OR 61.1%
7/18 Incorrect Day One Lynches OR 38.9%

7/18 Had Correct D1 lynches that lead to Town Wins OR 38.9% (Hang, Dracula, Smalltown, Pokemon, Penpals, SS2016, Baker[counted for first lynch])

6/18 Had Incorrect D1 lynches that lead to Town Wins OR 33.3% (Best, Vanilla, WoT1, Shakespeare, FAC668, Pariahs)

4/18 Had Correct D1 lynches that lead to Mafia Wins OR 22.2% (Chaos, Upon, SS2015, Impromptu)

1/18 Had Incorrect D1 lynches that lead to Mafia Wins OR 5.6% (Cave)

7/13 Town wins are correlated to correct D1 lynches OR 53.8%
6/13 Town wins are correlated to incorrect D1 lynches OR 46.2%

4/5 Mafia wins are correlated to correct D1 lynches OR 80%
1/5 Mafia wins are correlated to incorrect D1 lynches OR 20%

Sooooo ... I didn't expect to come to this conclusion. Statistics are less and less perfect with a smaller sample size, and eighteen isn't huge. The numbers say it's better for town to lynch mafia. But the numbers also say, it's much better for mafia to lynch mafia. The reason I would personally ascribe to this is that scum are pretty good at not implicating other scum, especially while being lynched. Once they know they're probably going down, Omertà kicks in and they take the fall.
In contrast, if someone flips townie, we can know that they were being sincere. From there, if they're an experienced player especially, we can understand that they are likely correct on who's scum. Or at least, that they're not protecting scum.

Let the record show, I don't believe bessie is scum. I'm not 100% behind her ideas, but they don't feel particularly scummy to me. If she gets lynched and flips scum, that's not bad for town. She seems to have lots of thoughts on who's scummy which, if she flips town, could be considerably better for town.

Vote: bessie

She's a particularly analytical player, with lots of strong opinions. Her flip would be very informative. I think it's important to restate, this is only for Day One. The following days are much more important in terms of correct lynches. D2, I will absolutely not vote for anyone I don't sincerely believe is scum.

**

To address the concerns about myself, I definitely understand where you're coming from. It took me a while to feel my way back into the groove of things. I was afraid to say anything other than flavor speculation, being a fan of WoT, and scared to be labeled scum for inexperienced guessing.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:37 am UTC
by Sabrar
@ahippo: I think your sample size is way too small, your reasoning is faulty and that is because you only look at superficial data. Just one example: in Impromptu Mafia I was SK, so it was obviously in Mafia's favor to lynch me but it fails completely to justify your final verdict of "it's much better for mafia to lynch mafia". I don't have the time to go through your whole list but you mesh games with completely different styles together. I do not agree with your justification at all (with the exception that bessie's flip would indeed be useful).

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:58 am UTC
by ahippo
Sabrar wrote:I was SK, so it was obviously in Mafia's favor to lynch me

I think that the mafia would have been better off leaving you alive for at least the first night, since it's far more likely for any given SK to kill town. I stand by that.

Sabrar wrote:but it fails completely to justify your final verdict of "it's much better for mafia to lynch mafia". I don't have the time to go through your whole list but you mesh games with completely different styles together.

My primary argument here is that lynching mafia doesn't give nearly us as much useful information as lynching town (Day One only) for the simple reason that you're actually all pretty good players. Mafia don't give away other mafia, and townies have good instincts. I'd rather know that one person was being honest than that someone was lying.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:05 am UTC
by Sabrar
ahippo wrote:My primary argument here is that lynching mafia doesn't give nearly us as much useful information as lynching town (Day One only)
I disagree, in my experience lynching Mafia D1 usually gives us least 2-3 confirmed townies based on vote-analysis.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:15 am UTC
by ahippo
Sabrar wrote:
ahippo wrote:My primary argument here is that lynching mafia doesn't give nearly us as much useful information as lynching town (Day One only)
I disagree, in my experience lynching Mafia D1 usually gives us least 2-3 confirmed townies based on vote-analysis.

Fair point. I haven't spent any time looking at what the breakdown of town/scum/independent is for any given D1 lynch in my list. Assuming I survive the lynch and night, that will be my next endeavor. Do you have any numbers on that yourself? If you do, that would be helpful.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:08 pm UTC
by Carlington
I don't believe bessie is scum. Pretty much every game I can remember right now has had some sort of showdown D1, and it seems to usually be town vs. town. Even in this forum version of the game, where we get as long as needed to compose and read posts, communication is imperfect and people talk past each other.

Sabrar hasn't been himself from what I've seen, dimochka has been mostly quiet after defending the MA joke. (I can't find it it anywhere... What is that role?)

I am still struggling for time, but ahippo's entire thing just now with a wall of random statistics and then voting a town read is super pingy, bad enough for me to

Vote:ahippo

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:14 pm UTC
by mpolo
Not a lot of time here. I hope to still get back to this before deadline, but it's going to be tight.

In this case, I have no strong feelings at all (Day 1, I'm not really convinced by the bessie train, no extra information from my role). As a result, I don't feel like I can really jump in and make an impassioned defense -- she could be scummy, might not. If I manage to get in, I will try to review enough to make a vote.

As it is, I will not oppose the vote, but can also not propose a better one.

Min is a good guess for an additional "named" character, I agree. Totally forgot she was still there.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:18 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Gopher of Pern: Mostly focuses on bessie (pot, kettle, I know)
Gopher of Pern wrote:Way too defensive. I asked for a reason to include a recruiter in your setup spec, and you give several non-answers, and protest that your speculation is not unreasonable. And you didn't feel the need to quote where the mod specifically said that their are possible alignment changes? That smacks of post-hoc justification. It's not as if people haven't misread the rules before. Your final reason is a guess? Yeah, I don't believe you.
I liked your answer before but this seems wrong. Setup-speculation at the beginning is rarely more than a guess and she could have easily thought that you've read the rules as well, as that should be the natural assumption. You mention post-hoc justification but it is your post that seems to be a prime example of it for me.

Read list is fine with 'lost post' justification, though it's interesting to see that you don't have anyone scummy besides bessie.

@SirGabriel: could you tell me why you considered Gopher of Pern as your most townie-read?


JudeMorrigan: newbie player, focuses on ahippo at first and suspects scum to be lurking. Posts early read list which isn't too helpful but is understandable if he'll be unavailable for a couple of days after that. His later responses and additional content looks to be in order. Worth noting that a) he defends bessie and b) he flip-flops about ahippo, moving from FoS to 'understandable mistake' to 'upon reread I found additional stuff that I don't like'. Possibly scum trying to see which way the wind blows before committing.

@JudeMorrigan: what is your updated setup speculation if you assume that there is both a pro-Eleida group who is not Town and the Black Ajah Mafia faction?


@ahippo: sorry, I don't have those numbers as I never saw the need to collect them.

@Carlington: MA = Militant Atheist, indie, wins if s/he can convince the players to lynch the moderator (an illegal action in most games).

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:28 pm UTC
by kalira
The piece of paper shimmers for a second, and the letters move and change and expand. You look around suspiciously at your cohorts, but all seem to be as interested in the change as you. You double check the sheet, but it appears to be correct. The latest votes are listed.

Votals:
bessie (5) - dimochka, Sabrar, Gopher of Pern, SirGabriel, ahippo
SirGabriel (1) - bessie
Diemo (1) - JudeMorrigan
ahippo (1) - Carlington

Not voting: mpolo, moody7277, Diemo, matt96

Approximately 4.5 hours until soft deadline.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:06 pm UTC
by SirGabriel
Sabrar wrote:@SirGabriel: could you tell me why you considered Gopher of Pern as your most townie-read?

There wasn't a whole lot to distinguish my top few town reads. GoP's first few posts seem like genuinely trying to figure out what's going on, and bessie seems to be pinging both of us for the same reason.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:02 pm UTC
by bessie
Re: ahippo’s analysis.

I think my jaw hit the floor when I saw this. I don’t even know how to respond. You mean to tell me that you spent the entire weekend reading old games instead of contributing to this one? Not that this isn’t interesting and I wish I was going to be around to discuss it, but WTF? (Why did you leave out Dollhouse? D1 Town lynch, mafia win, you should read that one it is one of my favorite games.)

Even more surprising is that no one else except Carlington is calling you out for active lurking.


Rereading your post and this stands out:
ahippo wrote: For the third question, I was thinking it might be reasonable for me to claim my Ajah,


ahippo wrote:Yellow Ajah. I've been playing healers for years.


So, did you just claim to be Yellow Ajah/doctor? Why? I guess this is just another obvious thing I missed in this game. Adding it to a very long list.

Unvote

I don’t think I need to end the day with a vote. If any of you want to review my D1 content, I think will be clear whom I suspect.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:38 pm UTC
by dimochka
I'm trying to get a quick post in now. Not actually crazy about the bessie vote anymore. Her posting style changed significantly and she provided a lot more useful content, not exactly what I would have expected. I'm going to unvote and re-read now, particularly ignoring anything between me and bessie.

@Sabrar - you know, looking at moody's post now I'm not really sure what stood out to me as more townie. It felt like he put more time into it to try and separate people out, but looking at it now I don't see it. Also I don't like that people keep putting those with flavor knowledge as more townie.

Unvote

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:52 pm UTC
by mpolo
Well, I did manage to check in again. I still don't know anything. Hopefully with the night, we'll have more to go on for tomorrow.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:27 pm UTC
by moody7277
dimochka wrote:Also I don't like that people keep putting those with flavor knowledge as more townie.


Your point being, I assume, that flavor discussion is a good position from which to active lurk?

Vote: Diemo

What little he's contributed has been meh at best.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:43 pm UTC
by matt96
I see I'm not the only one on right now, so I'll
vote: diemo
Which ties the votals, if nothing changes bessie will be lynched by the tie breaker.

Re: Wheel of Time 2 - The White Tower (D1)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:45 pm UTC
by Sabrar
I get feelings of the previous Secret Santa game with some dubious votes on bessie. Her content improved much during the day.

Unvote

Vote: Diemo


Complete lurker and my other most scummy read.