Diablo Mafia - Day 6 (The End)

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:33 am UTC

I claim scum.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Also @LaserGuy - if I choose not to side with you today, and you kill me, you cannot win. However, if one of you is lynched, you can still ain with me. Just saying.

Also, I dislike being blackmailed. I'm almost tempted to take the risk and side with town because of this!

It's not blackmail it's explaining our strategy. You help us win, we don't need to kill you and you guarantee your win. If you don't side with scum today, why will you decide to do so tomorrow. Left alive you could redirect our kills so we need to kill you because you are our biggest threat (Scum are still unlikely to win in this scenario but at least we survive one more night).
plytho wrote:I do think that if scum has strongman power they used it last night to kill our roleblocker and they're bluffing now.

Since I'm not dead, I think this might suggest everyone targeted me last night. Also I will confirm I did not perform the kill. I think Madge must have either targeted me or failed to submit a night action.
freezeblade wrote:This is exactly my thought. I am also >90% sure that Adnapemit is our second scum, and that they coordinated so that the lease valuable of the two scum left claimed, so that means I'm going to vote the other.
That's what we want you to think. :twisted:
...
or LaserGuy was just the first to be able to post.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:26 am UTC

@jimbobmadoodle: do you still prefer bessie to survive if that doesn't jeopardize your own survival?

adnapemit wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Also @LaserGuy - if I choose not to side with you today, and you kill me, you cannot win. However, if one of you is lynched, you can still ain with me. Just saying.

Also, I dislike being blackmailed. I'm almost tempted to take the risk and side with town because of this!

It's not blackmail it's explaining our strategy. You help us win, we don't need to kill you and you guarantee your win. If you don't side with scum today, why will you decide to do so tomorrow. Left alive you could redirect our kills so we need to kill you because you are our biggest threat (Scum are still unlikely to win in this scenario but at least we survive one more night).


Yeah, still blackmail. What jimbob said is right: you can not win if he sides with town today and you kill him tonight.

I'm assuming jimbob's redirecting power does not allow him to redirect his target to itself.

@jimbobmacdoodle: can you confirm?

In that case, once there's only one of you scum left, jimbobs power is no longer a threat to you. All he can do is redirect your kills from town to town (or from jimbob to town). Your biggest threat at that point is town's lynching power.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:05 am UTC

plytho wrote:@jimbobmadoodle: do you still prefer bessie to survive if that doesn't jeopardize your own survival?
I very much doubt it makes any difference to my overall victory whether bessie lives or not, but just in case, I'd prefer bessie to survive, unless I might die instead.

plytho wrote:I'm assuming jimbob's redirecting power does not allow him to redirect his target to itself.

@jimbobmacdoodle: can you confirm?
I doubt it, but I've PM'ed dimochka to confirm.

Some questions for scum - why did you kill Madge last night if you have a Strongman kill? Why did you not think it important to use your Strongman ability last night? What actions did you use each night?

plytho, bessie, can either of you confirm that LaserGuy performed the kill?

freezeblade, do you have any claims to make?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:29 am UTC

plytho wrote:I'm assuming jimbob's redirecting power does not allow him to redirect his target to itself.

I'd rather not assume.
In that case, once there's only one of you scum left, jimbobs power is no longer a threat to you. All he can do is redirect your kills from town to town (or from jimbob to town). Your biggest threat at that point is town's lynching power.

If he can't redirect a target to himself then this is mostly right. freezeblade hasn't fully claimed. He could be a PGO( which I think would still kill whoever was using the kill... I'm not completely certain but if it's a possibility I consider it a risk). He claims this then jimbob redirects our kill to freezeblade.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Some questions for scum - why did you kill Madge last night if you have a Strongman kill? Why did you not think it important to use your Strongman ability last night?

Thought it would be better to take a chance since the strongman kill would be more useful to us today. Your decision not to coordinate actions made us hopeful it would be successful. Between you and Madge, Madge was town.
What actions did you use each night?

As LaserGuy said:
-Sabrar targeted bessie(failed).
-Sabrar killed SirGabriel (ahippo).
-N3 adnapemit killed Gopher
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:31 am UTC

adnapemit wrote:
What actions did you use each night?

As LaserGuy said:
-Sabrar targeted bessie(failed).
-Sabrar killed SirGabriel (ahippo).
-N3 adnapemit killed Gopher
That only says what kills you performed as a team. How about your other abilities (assuming you have them)?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:32 am UTC

Sabrar tried to use recruit on bessie. We haven't used any other abilities.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:44 am UTC

EBWOP: ninja/recruit.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:59 pm UTC

I am, in fact, a PGO, but it's not a plain vanilla PGO, it's added with commuter power, so anyone who targets me will find whatever they were doing ineffective, and I will kill them instead.

So if the mafia kill is directed to me, according to the wording of my role PM, I'm pretty sure it will kill the person trying to use a kill, leaving me unaffected.

Perhaps that's the way we should go? I will send a PM to the mod to clarify.

In the meantime, we need to figure out who of adnapemit and LaserGuy to lynch.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby bessie » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:42 pm UTC

I watched Madge and saw LaserGuy visit. I see all visitors of my target (unless ninja, etc).

adnapemit wrote:Sabrar tried to use recruit on bessie. We haven't used any other abilities.
Still not believing this. There should be no vanilla roles in this game. plytho, did adnapemit use a power last night?

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:47 pm UTC

I followed LaserGuy, saw him kill. My power can not detect whether strongman was used.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:04 pm UTC

My power would return "no result" if my target was blocked. I expected adnapemit to be blocked, so I didn't want to target her.

For now I'm not sure who to lynch. As LaserGuy killed last night that means he may well have been the strongman, meaning adnapemit might have something up her sleeve. I guess right now I'm leaning towards an adnapemit lynch.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:05 pm UTC

Just got an answer back about my redirecting - I cannot redirect people onto myself or themselves.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:38 pm UTC

plytho wrote:My power would return "no result" if my target was blocked. I expected adnapemit to be blocked, so I didn't want to target her.

For now I'm not sure who to lynch. As LaserGuy killed last night that means he may well have been the strongman, meaning adnapemit might have something up her sleeve. I guess right now I'm leaning towards an adnapemit lynch.


I had to take the kill last night regardless of who is the strongman. jimbob had said he was redirecting adnapemit... if her kill had punched through his redirect, then he'd know who the strongman is. Madge, OTOH, telegraphed pretty strongly that she wasn't keen on targeting me.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Some questions for scum - why did you kill Madge last night if you have a Strongman kill? Why did you not think it important to use your Strongman ability last night? What actions did you use each night?


Were you planning on joining us if we'd asked you nicely? At worst, we need the strongman available to kill you if you decide to lynch one of us. Yes, it will cost us the game to do so, but at that point, we lose even if we target town. Even if you did work with us, then we still needed to work around freezeblade's unclaimed power.

bessie wrote:plytho – follow freezeblade (action failed)

freezeblade wrote:I am, in fact, a PGO, but it's not a plain vanilla PGO, it's added with commuter power, so anyone who targets me will find whatever they were doing ineffective, and I will kill them instead.


Sounds like your power doesn't work very well.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:plytho – follow freezeblade (action failed)

freezeblade wrote:I am, in fact, a PGO, but it's not a plain vanilla PGO, it's added with commuter power, so anyone who targets me will find whatever they were doing ineffective, and I will kill them instead.


Sounds like your power doesn't work very well.


I did not use my power last night, it is a one-shot, and I was pretty sure mafia were going to go after madge last night, not me.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:49 pm UTC

new info: just got confirmation of how redirector works with the PGO:

Question to mod: If player A uses a kill on player B, but player C redirects A to me instead, who would be killed?
Answer from mod: the person ultimately targeting you, in this case player A, would be the one killed.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:51 pm UTC

Of note: as with previous weekends, I will probably not be available from quitting time (PST) Friday until office hours on Monday morning, I really think we should coordinate night-actions before the day is over. Granted the note from the mod about how my PGO reacts with a re-direct, the best way to play this for town, I think, is for us to lynch one of the two (I'm voting for adnapemit), then re-direct the other to me via night action. This will kill them, if they decide to use a kill (I highly doubt they still have [or even did have] a strongman power), which will end the day!
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:33 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Of note: as with previous weekends, I will probably not be available from quitting time (PST) Friday until office hours on Monday morning, I really think we should coordinate night-actions before the day is over. Granted the note from the mod about how my PGO reacts with a re-direct, the best way to play this for town, I think, is for us to lynch one of the two (I'm voting for adnapemit), then re-direct the other to me via night action. This will kill them, if they decide to use a kill (I highly doubt they still have [or even did have] a strongman power), which will end the day!


Well, yes, obviously if scum claim as such, then the best play for town is to lynch them. That's not really the question that's being decided right now. The question at hand is "What is the best play for jimbob?" He's not town. He doesn't win if town wins but he's dead.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:49 pm UTC

I don't think that scum can win without him, so it would be against their self interests to kill jimbob.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:07 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:I don't think that scum can win without him, so it would be against their self interests to kill jimbob.


You're right, we can't win without him. If you lynch one of us today, we will lose twenty dollars and my self respect. We can't prevent that outcome. What we can do is prevent jimbob from winning as well. So, if you lynch one of us tonight, we will attempt to kill jimbob. If the strongman is alive, we will succeed. We will lose, but so will he (and Znirk).

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:08 am UTC

EBWOP: Uh... weird filter going on?

We will lose t.h.e g.a.m.e.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby dimochka » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:34 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:EBWOP: Uh... weird filter going on?

We will lose t.h.e g.a.m.e.

That's a weird perpetual filter on the forum, nothing you can do about it other than avoiding putting the words "the" and "game" together.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby bessie » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:54 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I had to take the kill last night regardless of who is the strongman. jimbob had said he was redirecting adnapemit... if her kill had punched through his redirect, then he'd know who the strongman is.
So, are you saying adnapemit is the strongman? Or did you use it last night and you’re bluffing? Or did you never have a one-shot strongman? Strongman doesn't fit with the random alignment setup, but neither did Sabrar's ninja.

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:plytho – follow freezeblade (action failed)

freezeblade wrote:I am, in fact, a PGO, but it's not a plain vanilla PGO, it's added with commuter power, so anyone who targets me will find whatever they were doing ineffective, and I will kill them instead.


Sounds like your power doesn't work very well.
This was N2. He has claimed a one-shot commuter and a one-shot PGO. If freezeblade commuted N2, he has never been successfully targeted.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:34 am UTC

bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I had to take the kill last night regardless of who is the strongman. jimbob had said he was redirecting adnapemit... if her kill had punched through his redirect, then he'd know who the strongman is.


So, are you saying adnapemit is the strongman? Or did you use it last night and you’re bluffing? Or did you never have a one-shot strongman? Strongman doesn't fit with the random alignment setup, but neither did Sabrar's ninja.


Yes, we have a strongman. Our roles were apparently not randomized in the same way that yours were. When we discussed this on D3, I outlined my theory for how I think the roles were determined, which is consistent with our abilities. As I said, regardless of who the strongman might be, I had to take the kill last night in order to create the necessary uncertainty to execute our strategy.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:52 am UTC

I'm currently leaning towards supporting Scum, because I can't take the risk that they are telling the truth and make good on their threat.

@Town, why should I side with you?

@Scum, I don't fully trust you, but I might be willing to work with you. Assuming I do, how do you propose acting tonight?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:18 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Scum, I don't fully trust you, but I might be willing to work with you. Assuming I do, how do you propose acting tonight

If we get no-lynch today (or lynch freezeblade if a town fails create a tie) we confirm you are not a threat and have no reason to target you.
Scum kills plytho.
We either win or we lynch freezeblade tomorrow and win.


Might as well place my vote now as well.
Vote freezeblade.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:01 am UTC

@jimbob: is there a reason you do not trust us?
What could you lose by trusting us?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:15 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:@jimbob: is there a reason you do not trust us?
What could you lose by trusting us?
I am 90% certain you have held some information back. What I could lose would depend on what that is.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:23 pm UTC

Some quick thoughts:

Right now I can't give you a solid reason to side with town today. Unless they can't follow through with their blackmail since lynching you would be against the 'don't go against your wincon' rule.

I can say scum is inconsistent about their strongman power. They first imply it's a one shot but now they seem to be saying one of them 'is' the strongman which would be an every night power.

Also they're blackmailing you into cooperation.

One thing you could do is follow their orders today and go for no lynch. They won't target you tonight. Then you can try to redirect scum to scum or find out who's the strongman or kill scum then you can switch back to town tomorrow and lynch the right scum. Give some payback for the blackmail.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby bessie » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:45 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Town, why should I side with you?

I’ve been thinking about this, and I think it is in your best interests to either lynch scum today, or to no lynch but ultimately side with town. Here are the reasons as I see them.

adnapemit wrote:It's not blackmail it's explaining our strategy. You help us win, we don't need to kill you and you guarantee your win.
I disagree that they won’t need to eventually kill you (more below).

dimochka wrote:Mafia Win Condition:
You are scum and win when all factions opposing you are eliminated or this outcome is inevitable.
The scum win is not inevitable until they control the lynch, because even if you support them today, you can change sides at any time. Assuming no powers (except your redirect) and we no lynch today:

N5: 3-2-1, mafia kills town without your interference. They do not have a choice to kill you.
D6: 2-2-1, you side with mafia and lynch town. This would be your choice to continue to support them, although they may have some leverage if they still claim a strongman (more on this below).
N6: 1-2-1, they would need to rely on your support to ensure they kill town. You can try to redirect the kill to mafia. It would be better play for them to attempt to kill you, for a guaranteed scum win, than to take a chance of going to D7 with 1-1-1.

So jimbob, I think it is in your best interests to try to ensure there are not two scum alive tomorrow, and D6 starts at 3-1-1.

Reminder that adnapemit said this:
adnapemit wrote: Left alive you could redirect our kills so we need to kill you because you are our biggest threat (Scum are still unlikely to win in this scenario but at least we survive one more night).


And back to where I said they may have a way to have leverage over you tomorrow, there’s this:
adnapemit wrote:If we get no-lynch today (or lynch freezeblade if a town fails create a tie) we confirm you are not a threat and have no reason to target you.
Scum kills plytho.
We either win or we lynch freezeblade tomorrow and win.
Mafia wouldn’t need a strongman to kill plytho. They would have it available tomorrow to threaten jimbob again. This makes me think they don’t really have a strongman or they are trying to trick jimbob into going along with them today so they have the strongman available tomorrow to use on him (see my N6 analysis above).


Other things LaserGuy and adnapemit have said that make me not believe they are telling the truth.
LaserGuy wrote: If jimbob (and bessie, if she wishes to do so) joins with us, we will ensure he lives to the end of the game and get his (their) win.
I can’t win with mafia, and you know it. Why would you even offer this, except to mislead jimbob? (I had commented on this before.)

adnapemit wrote:As LaserGuy said:
-Sabrar targeted bessie(failed).
-Sabrar killed SirGabriel (ahippo).
-N3 adnapemit killed Gopher

adnapemit wrote:Sabrar tried to use recruit on bessie. We haven't used any other abilities.
I don’t believe this (as I already said twice), and I would like to more thoroughly explain.

To begin with, I really don’t believe Sabrar tried to recruit me. There is nothing in my D1 content that shows I had any indication that I thought I was recruitable. If anyone was hinting they were recruitable on D1, my guess would have been Madge or ahippo. Next, it doesn’t make sense that Sabrar tried to kill me because there is even less to indicate that I was in any way the biggest threat (or any threat) to the scum team. I liked LaserGuy and adnapemit, and found Sabrar scummy, but so did others. And there was some indication I would be going after Carlington on D2.

I can see a reason Sabrar may have targeted ahippo/SirGabriel N2. But I am not completely convinced because there is a possible SirG missing N2 action (my guess is ahippo made a weapon on N1 and if he tried to use it N2 all kills would be simultaneous).

Anyway I don’t see any reason for Sabrar to fear me or recruit me. Unless he really didn’t like something in my initial setup spec.
bessie wrote:here’s my initial setup spec for a generic 15 player game.

9 Town (cop, doctor, tracker, watcher, vigilante, PGO, bodyguard, universal backup, and jack of all trades, one of which is a miller)
3 Mafia (godfather/roleblocker, ninja, strongman)
1 Mafia supporter (recruitable)
1 Serial killer
1 lyncher or other independent
That reminds me, LaserGuy and adnapemit do not have current power claims. Which leads me to an updated setup spec at game start, before alignments were assigned. Player names added for convenience.

JustDanceUnlimited, Cain the Elder, alignment cop/1-shot seer
SirGabriel , Pepin the Healer, doctor
ahippo/SirGabriel, Griswold the Blacksmith, bodyguard/1-shot vigilante
mpolo/SDK, Ogden the Tavern Owner, mason/ jailer (limited)
Gopher of Pern, Lester the Farmer, D1 commuter/universal backup
Madge, Farnham the Drunk, miller/roleblocker
Znirk, Rogue, tracker
Carlington, Warrior of Khanduras, JOAT
bessie, Gillian the Barmaid, mason/watcher
Plytho, Bard, follower
freezeblade, Monk of the Brotherhood, 1-shot commuter/1-shot PGO
jimbobmacdoodle, Wirt the Peg-Legged Boy, redirector
Sabrar, Adria the Witch, ninja/recruiter (?)
adnapemit, Sorcerer of Vizjerei, ?
LaserGuy, Barbarian, ?

Sabrar’s role is still bothering me. I can’t figure out what Adria’s power would have been. Rolestopper would be my first guess, with other possibilities friendly neighbor/innocent child.

So what’s left from likely powers for adnapemit and LaserGuy?
LaserGuy wrote:(Obviously my bulletproof/vig claim was total BS and you all rightly called me on it).
I think that LaserGuy's claim that his original claim was BS was interesting, and it was an odd time to make such a claim. LaserGuy claimed bulletproof here before he knew he was jailed N2 and N3. He might really be bulletproof.

For adnapemit, 1-shot vigilante? Role cop? Motion detector? I don’t know yet. Jimbob, did you redirect adnapemit to LaserGuy last night?

LaserGuy wrote:One of the two remaining scum players has a strongman kill available. This kill cannot be blocked or redirected.
Question: Are we sure the strongman kill can’t be redirected?

If there is a strongman, here’s some weird wording suggesting adnapemit is the strongman.
adnapemit wrote:
plytho wrote:I do think that if scum has strongman power they used it last night to kill our roleblocker and they're bluffing now.

Since I'm not dead, I think this might suggest everyone targeted me last night. Also I will confirm I did not perform the kill. I think Madge must have either targeted me or failed to submit a night action.

LaserGuy wrote:I had to take the kill last night regardless of who is the strongman. jimbob had said he was redirecting adnapemit... if her kill had punched through his redirect, then he'd know who the strongman is.
I already expressed my skepticism with the second statement in a previous post.

Here’s where I don’t believe LaserGuy is telling the truth, with my reasons following.
LaserGuy wrote:Yes, we have a strongman. Our roles were apparently not randomized in the same way that yours were. When we discussed this on D3, I outlined my theory for how I think the roles were determined, which is consistent with our abilities.
(underlining mine) I’m going to object to this, as I did on D3. This is not how dimochka claimed, in bold, he set up the game.

From the signup thread:
Bastardry: Low to Medium. You may not be told everything, but there will be no lying whatsoever.

From the game thread:
dimochka wrote:Note: The only use of RNG in this game was to allocate player alignments. Any role could be town / scum / something else.

dimochka wrote:If I felt that the setup was grossly unbalanced, I probably would have done some something to adjust. I'm not saying that it's balanced or unbalanced now, but I would not be comfortable picking a likely winning / losing faction at this point.

dimochka wrote:Since I promised a newbie-friendly game, I'll explain a bit more. Alignments were allocated 100% randomly, and players assigned to a given role were also random. As far as the connection between powers and role - they weren't completely random but I took quite a bit of creative freedom with those, AND they were allocated BEFORE alignment. So if for instance I could have decided that Ogden's Wife (used as an example since she's dead in my flavor; not in the video game) was a healer, watcher / tracker, Ogden's bodyguard, or a million other things. That also DOES NOT prevent her from from being anti-town at the same time.


LaserGuy and I have been through this before. I started to make a list of all the relevant quotes, but it was just a long rehash of what has already been said. If anyone's interested, let me know and I will post the whole thing. This was the last one:
LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:LaserGuy, your setup ideas are similar to my own. As for neutrals being town or demon, all we know is that Znirk was a demon and jimbob claims to be human. What I don’t agree with is what I quoted earlier (underlining mine):
LaserGuy wrote:As far my vote is concerned, a lot of it came down to flavor. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is pretty good evidence (and supported by ahippo's recent death, actually) that the flavor and abilities of the character from the game fairly closely aligns to their role, alignment, and abilities, despite dimochka's comments to the contrary.


Show me somewhere where dimochka made a comment about the setup that contradicts any game content revealed so far. Whatever dimochka did with the mafia (and other non-town) roles is speculation, or maybe you know something I don’t know.


That was mostly made in reference to the "random alignment" business. The townie characters that have flipped have all been humans with townie roles that fit with the flavor. Znirk's is somewhat more ambiguous, admittedly. So while I think any character could in principle be scum, I think that the human will be replaced with a demon aspect (leaving a falseclaim, presumably), to avoid the "Diablo is town" nonsense... which I feel that dimochka was, at very least, deliberately coy about. I think the initial statement "Note: The only use of RNG in this game was to allocate player alignments. Any role could be town / scum / something else" is, in this context, somewhat misleading.

As far as scum powers, I don't have anything useful to claim here, at least among the townie roles that we've seen so far, I have to imagine that if any of them ended up as scum they'd probably have needed to be rewritten (I know people have mentioned one game where the cop was scum, so maybe not that role I suppose).
The way I see it is that LaserGuy keeps misrepresenting the setup, which directly contradicts mod statements in bold. Strongman is a role that is only useful to mafia and it doesn’t make sense that dimochka included it in his initial setup.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I very much doubt it makes any difference to my overall victory whether bessie lives or not, but just in case, I'd prefer bessie to survive, unless I might die instead.
Although I am still skeptical that there are any secondary win conditions, I reread my role PM, and your name is in it, and so is the desire to leave town, but they are not in the same sentence. Does Wirt want to go to Caldeum too?

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:00 am UTC

bessie wrote:The scum win is not inevitable until they control the lynch, because even if you support them today, you can change sides at any time. Assuming no powers (except your redirect) and we no lynch today:

N5: 3-2-1, mafia kills town without your interference. They do not have a choice to kill you.
D6: 2-2-1, you side with mafia and lynch town. This would be your choice to continue to support them, although they may have some leverage if they still claim a strongman (more on this below).
N6: 1-2-1, they would need to rely on your support to ensure they kill town. You can try to redirect the kill to mafia. It would be better play for them to attempt to kill you, for a guaranteed scum win, than to take a chance of going to D7 with 1-1-1.

So jimbob, I think it is in your best interests to try to ensure there are not two scum alive tomorrow, and D6 starts at 3-1-1.


You seem to be ignoring how much this scenario requires us to trust jimbob's benevolence. If we no lynch on D5, he has the opportunity to attempt to betray us on N5 without particular risk to himself. Even if N5 goes favorably for scum, then he has the opportunity to lynch one of us D6. If he doesn't, by the time N6 rolls around, we just need to kill one townie to win, and jimbob would win with us. Why would we attempt to kill him? Why would he attempt to kill us? It doesn't make sense for either of us to play this way. jimbob has nothing to lose by supporting us. We can't afford to kill him tonight, don't have the capacity to kill him tomorrow, and have no reason to kill him N6.

This is ignoring the fact that, based on what you're saying about your respective role PMs, jimbob can just recruit you tonight and take you away from the townie side. You pointed it out yourself earlier:
bessie wrote:If we both survive to end game I will leave town with you so that you can get a bonus win.

I don't know why you are pretending to be so coy about it. It's obvious that's what you're talking about. In this case, there's only one townie left D6, we lynch them and claim our respective wins.

bessie wrote:To begin with, I really don’t believe Sabrar tried to recruit me. There is nothing in my D1 content that shows I had any indication that I thought I was recruitable. If anyone was hinting they were recruitable on D1, my guess would have been Madge or ahippo. Next, it doesn’t make sense that Sabrar tried to kill me because there is even less to indicate that I was in any way the biggest threat (or any threat) to the scum team. I liked LaserGuy and adnapemit, and found Sabrar scummy, but so did others. And there was some indication I would be going after Carlington on D2.


We had narrowed down the choice of possible recruits to you (you put out very early in your setup spec that there was a likely recruit, and repeated the idea several times even when nobody else did) and Znirk (based on flavor). We felt that Znirk would be fairly useless to us... he was likely to be lynched N2, and if we were wrong, then we wasted a kill on a suspicious indie. You we all had pegged as town, so even if we missed on the recruit, we'd still kill a townie, which isn't a bad result.

LaserGuy wrote:Yes, we have a strongman. Our roles were apparently not randomized in the same way that yours were. When we discussed this on D3, I outlined my theory for how I think the roles were determined, which is consistent with our abilities.


(underlining mine) I’m going to object to this, as I did on D3. This is not how dimochka claimed, in bold, he set up the game.


Znirk, Rogue, tracker
Carlington, Warrior of Khanduras, JOAT
Sabrar, Adria the Witch, ninja/recruiter (?)
adnapemit, Sorcerer of Vizjerei, ?
LaserGuy, Barbarian, ?

Sabrar’s role is still bothering me. I can’t figure out what Adria’s power would have been. Rolestopper would be my first guess, with other possibilities friendly neighbor/innocent child.


You are confusing our characters and our falseclaims. Znirk was Red Vex. Sabrar was Lazarus. Carlington was the Skeleton King. Warrior/Barbarian/Sorcerer/Rogue/Adria are all explicit falseclaims given in our role PMs.

What good would Sabrar's ninja power be if he had been town? If you're wondering what Adria's power is supposed to be, presumably that's because you realize that her power was changed when her alignment was assigned as scum. Which is exactly what I told you.

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I very much doubt it makes any difference to my overall victory whether bessie lives or not, but just in case, I'd prefer bessie to survive, unless I might die instead.


Although I am still skeptical that there are any secondary win conditions, I reread my role PM, and your name is in it, and so is the desire to leave town, but they are not in the same sentence. Does Wirt want to go to Caldeum too?


It's not a secondary win condition. You're recruitable by jimbob. But I'm sure you already knew that.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:59 pm UTC

For bessie - yes I redirected adnapemit to LaserGuy as I said I planned on doing. At the time I wasn't certain who the second scum member was, and still half-believed that adnapemit was the SK. I have no idea who Madge targeted - I presume adnapemit as well.

I'm inclined to think that scum has a strongman, probably one-shot. It nicely matches up with Sabrar's ninja power, which was also one-shot and not particularly useful to town. My belief is that the abilities were randomly assigned, but adapted once assigned to scum somehow. A strongman ability could easily replace a traditional vig or similar assigned to a scum player. Which of the two it is, I have no idea. Also, with multiple players immune to kills at various times and with multiple abilities able to mess about with kills, I think a way for scum to bypass the defences is well within the realms of game balance additions. By the way, I looked up Strongman on the Mafia Universe page and it said that it ignores redirection (amongst other things), although obviously dimochka could have created a slightly different role.

I don't see a massive benefit to scum lying about their actions at this point, unless they successfully recruited someone, in which case, they actually only need my vote to win the game today, rather than later, though if that is the case, they should claim so, as I will side with them for certain.

I fully expect one of LaserGuy or adnapemit to have another power other than strongman, but I have no idea what. Bulletproof seems possible, but I have my doubts.

@Scum - why have you not bothered to claim what other powers you have? I do not believe there to be any vanilla scum out there.

The way I see it, the odds are a bit risky if I side with town. Essentially, we have a 50% chance of lynching the right scum member. If we get it wrong, and scum give up, they kill me. Whilst I marginally agree that adnapemit is the likelier strongman, I think it could easily be a combination of wine and/or unintentional mistakes/poor phrasing by scum that happen to mislead us towards that conclusion. On the other hand, if I side with scum, they cannot kill me today, or lynch me tomorrow. They could kill me N6, but doing so would be out of spite, as much as anything, because presumably they'll still have the strongman available.

I'm surprised bessie and plytho haven't actually placed a vote yet. I assume they will go on adnapemit.

@bessie - I don't have a specific place mentioned in my role PM, only "far away" from Tristram. If bessie and/or I have some ability to recruit the other, it's unknown to me beyond the flavour. I might well target bessie tonight to see what happens, if I side with scum. Bessie, it's up to you, but you should consider targeting me tonight, in case it's you who activates the event though, as you never know, it might affect your win condition in some interesting and positive way.

Just throwing this out there, but what if plytho or freezeblade are actually independent?!
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:57 pm UTC

@jimbob: did you read my earlier post about giving in to scum today but trying to get info on them tonight by redirecting one to the other? They won't be able to do anything about it tonight unless they pre-emptively kill you even after you help them get no-lynch today.

This could go a couple of ways but none of those endanger your life.

1. You successfully redirect because they didn't use the strongman and we're 3-1-1 tomorrow and lynch scum. No danger to you.

2. You fail to redirect and we lose a town. You, with bessie or me can use our information to figure out who was the strongman. (or just because my suggestion is out there assume that scum uses strongman tonight) we'd be at 2-1-2 at that point with you still being the deciding vote and likely an good indication of who's the strongman. No danger to you because if you're not convinced about who's strongman and believe you'll might still die you can still side with scum.


3. You fail to redirect and you die because for some reason scum still targeted you.


Jimbob, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.

I was waiting to vote until I could get a better read on the strongman but I guess I can vote now and change if I learn something.

Vote: adnapemit
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:12 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:This is ignoring the fact that, based on what you're saying about your respective role PMs, jimbob can just recruit you tonight and take you away from the townie side.

LaserGuy wrote:It's not a secondary win condition. You're recruitable by jimbob. But I'm sure you already knew that.
This is news to me. What makes you think jimbob has a recruiting power? A guess you might know this if adnapemit is a role cop. More likely you are trying to create a distraction, and trying hard because you brought it up in two separate places in your post.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@bessie - I don't have a specific place mentioned in my role PM, only "far away" from Tristram. If bessie and/or I have some ability to recruit the other, it's unknown to me beyond the flavour. I might well target bessie tonight to see what happens, if I side with scum. Bessie, it's up to you, but you should consider targeting me tonight, in case it's you who activates the event though, as you never know, it might affect your win condition in some interesting and positive way.
jimbob, I think the flavor is just flavor. I’m just considering the (very small) possibility open for a bonus win.

Do not waste your power on me tonight. AFAIK, I am not recruitable. And I do not have a demon name or a false claim, or the “additional information” section like Znirk, Sabrar, and Carlington. There is nothing in my role PM to indicate that my win condition is anything other than the town win condition in the OP. But if you want I will watch you tonight, to confirm scum does not try to target you with one of the powers they refuse to disclose.

jimbob, if you decide to no lynch today, you should try to kill scum tonight for your own protection.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:They could kill me N6, but doing so would be out of spite, as much as anything, because presumably they'll still have the strongman available.
It wouldn’t be out of spite, it would be to guarantee their win. They can kill you N6 to guarantee a scum win or kill town N6 and gamble that you won’t change sides D7. See my previous analysis:
bessie wrote:N6: 1-2-1, they would need to rely on your support to ensure they kill town. You can try to redirect the kill to mafia. It would be better play for them to attempt to kill you, for a guaranteed scum win, than to take a chance of going to D7 with 1-1-1.
To ensure your win, you should either try to kill one of them tonight or make sure they have to use their strongman power tonight, so it won’t be available to blackmail you with on D6.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: By the way, I looked up Strongman on the Mafia Universe page and it said that it ignores redirection (amongst other things), although obviously dimochka could have created a slightly different role.
Yes but it’s not specified on the MafiaScum page, which only says that the kill can’t be blocked. There was an issue a couple years ago, maybe it was Draculafia, where the mod used a different interpretation of the jailer than what everyone was expecting (the MafiaScum doctor+roleblocker) and allowed a cop action through. So, don't assume?


OK, now back to LaserGuy.
LaserGuy wrote:We had narrowed down the choice of possible recruits to you (you put out very early in your setup spec that there was a likely recruit, and repeated the idea several times even when nobody else did) and Znirk (based on flavor).

Not true. There were others that discussed recruiting more than me, and the possibility of a mafia traitor more than me. D1 cult/recruit/alignment change speculation (most underlining is mine).
Spoiler:
Page 1
jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Some miscellaneous setup thoughts and comments. 9-4-1-1 feels about right for the balance, with one of the two indies being anti-town and the other able to win with either faction. I don't think there's a cult (didn't dimochka say something about that? Phone posting so can't easily check), but I wouldn't be surprised by some way for somebody's alignment to change (e.g. Silversmith or similar).

freezeblade
freezeblade wrote:I put the possibility of a 3rd alignment that recruits just north of 75%


Ninja: I'm thinking 9-4-1-1 is a bit heavy tilted to scum team, especially if there's no vanilla characters. Perhaps closer to 10-3-1-1, with 1 being a survivor (or similar), and the other 1 being a recruiting scum faction

freezeblade
freezeblade wrote:All the little "outs" that the mod has put out, such as alignments "may or may not change," other win conditions that exist, but won't tell us what they are. This combined with the flavor, which had all the major adversaries (as far as I remember) previously Tristram characters which are "converted" or "turned" evil (the butcher, the king, even the player character at the end of the game!).

Sabrar
Sabrar wrote:I think 4 scum is more reasonable with 15 players, or maybe 3 with a Traitor?


Page 2
Gopher of Pern
Gopher of Pern wrote:The first post only said that alignments can change, which feels stronger than may change.

ahippo
ahippo wrote:Are there any other newbie friendly roles that can cause alignments to shift, outside of a cult?

bessie
bessie wrote:9 Town (cop, doctor, tracker, watcher, vigilante, PGO, bodyguard, universal backup, and jack of all trades, one of which is a miller)
3 Mafia (godfather/roleblocker, ninja, strongman)
1 Mafia supporter (recruitable)
1 Serial killer
1 lyncher or other independent

I might revise this later. I need to read the flavor and think about how a cult might fit.

mpolo
mpolo wrote:There is a fairly good chance of a culting mechanic, simply because of the amount of weasel words the mod put in to allow that. Also from my role info, I think that more will be happening than just kills, though this is more interpretation than explicit statements. So I may be grasping at straws there.

ahippo
ahippo wrote:Agreed. But I'd like to ask my question again: What role, other than cult leader, do you think could change another player's alignment?

Gopher of Pern
Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm going to trust bessies setup spec, as she got it uncannily right last game (plus she already picked a miller). Do you think a possible Mafia supporter would know that they could be recruited? How would that work? If they get targeted by the NK, they get recruited instead?

plytho
plytho wrote:Mafia supporter works.

bessie
bessie wrote:Madge’s claim is interesting. If she is telling the truth, it makes it less likely that there are naïve millers. I had considered that players may not know they are possessed/demons/whatever scum naming works with the flavor. So it looks like scum knows they’re scum.

LaserGuy
LaserGuy wrote:freezeblade: Lots of interesting stuff here. Considered cult quite likely early on for, IMHO, pretty dubious reasons. A couple of other things he's said have been pinging me a bit, especially now with his claim of being not part of the expected town characters. If not scum, I suspect he's probably in a neutral faction--maybe his flavor text hints that he can be recruited in some way.

jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I thought of one good reason why ahippo might claim their name this early - he is a mafia supporter who can be recruited by being targeted by mafia, and he believes that mafia will know his name. This is of course completely random guessing, and there's no particular reason to support this above ahippo's own stated reasons.


Page 3
LaserGuy
LaserGuy wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I thought of one good reason why ahippo might claim their name this early - he is a mafia supporter who can be recruited by being targeted by mafia, and he believes that mafia will know his name.


@ahippo: Any comments on this?


Page 4
bessie
bessie wrote:I’m not sure if he’s skeptical of cult or wary of cult. And it looks like I might never find out, as he’s asked for a replacement.

jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:ahippo: I haven't seen much from ahippo worth commenting on beyond his name claim, which I already discussed as being pointless and potentially dangerous, since it could be some sort of signal to scum-mates.

jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
adnapemit wrote:Doesn't see cult hunting as possible unless someone has information but then asks not to reveal unless worthwhile. I wouldn't mind if jimbob explained this more. What counts as worthwhile? It someone's role says there is a cult but not how to find them, would you rather them not mention it?
I count really define exactly what counts as worthwhile, because it really depends on what the role is. If revealing knowledge of a cult is likely to leave you being recruited and losing town a powerful ability in a fight against cult (de-culter, vigilante etc as some off-the-top-of-my-head ideas), then it probably isn't worthwhile. On the other hand, if it's something like, "you cannot be recruited by cult" or similar, then you can probably state outright that you know there to be a cult in the game (though explaining why may not be the best of ideas). Overall, I'd rather someone mention there is a cult if they have knowledge of one as long as it doesn't paint a clear target on themselves as a useful townie.

Regarding adnapemit's scum read on me, I can see two things she might be basing it on - my cult hunting comments (addressed above), or my reconsidering of my opinion on Madge. As noted in my original post on Madge's miller claim, it was only a gut reaction to some of her justification (something I might add that others also noted, if I recall correctly). After sitting and thinking about it over the course of that day, I came to the conclusion that the evidence supporting her claim outweighed that one negative point. You say that scum might change their mind because everybody else thought differently. I took a quick glance over the posts between the one I was suspicious of Madge in, and the one where I made a decision, and I saw very little opinion expressed by most players on the subject in the interim (many discussed it but didn't state a firm conclusion on the matter), so I feel that you are painting a bit of a false picture here.

@adnapemit, would you clarify your scum read on me a bit more, please?
ahippo wrote:What role, other than cult leader, do you think could change another player's alignment?
A couple of examples could be a mafia with a recruit, presumably limited in some way (see MMM1), or a player who is recruited instead of killed (Silversmith - Trial of the Pariahs, Mafia supporter - Once Upon a Time, if I'm not mistaken etc).


Page 5
bessie
bessie wrote:
Znirk wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Why do you think Survivor was given a false claim?

To reiteraclarify: in contradiction to my earlier speculation my best guess on this is that 'survivor was given a false claim' is not what happened. Rather, the false claim offer was given to a specific character, who coincidentally also got survivor.
This matches my current theory, that every character was created as a human with a demon option (for initial alignment by the RNG or later culting).

LaserGuy wrote:You are confusing our characters and our falseclaims. Znirk was Red Vex. Sabrar was Lazarus. Carlington was the Skeleton King. Warrior/Barbarian/Sorcerer/Rogue/Adria are all explicit falseclaims given in our role PMs.
No, you are pretending to misread my post to create a distraction. It is my setup speculation for before the RNG assigned the alignments.

LaserGuy wrote:What good would Sabrar's ninja power be if he had been town? If you're wondering what Adria's power is supposed to be, presumably that's because you realize that her power was changed when her alignment was assigned as scum. Which is exactly what I told you.
Yes, I’m trying to figure out what Adria’s power would have been, had she not been possessed by Lazarus, and if it is something that would have a reasonable correlation with a ninja.

And LaserGuy, why are you still denying this, the same thing you have been denying since D3?
dimochka wrote:Since I promised a newbie-friendly game, I'll explain a bit more. Alignments were allocated 100% randomly, and players assigned to a given role were also random. As far as the connection between powers and role - they weren't completely random but I took quite a bit of creative freedom with those, AND they were allocated BEFORE alignment. So if for instance I could have decided that Ogden's Wife (used as an example since she's dead in my flavor; not in the video game) was a healer, watcher / tracker, Ogden's bodyguard, or a million other things. That also DOES NOT prevent her from from being anti-town at the same time.
Could it be because you want to keep steering the discussion away from discussing whether or not you currently have, or have ever had, a strongman?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Just throwing this out there, but what if plytho or freezeblade are actually independent?!
Yes, I have considered this, and have spent some time analyzing freezeblades’s D2 actions. I don’t see any place where either could have been recruited by Sabrar, Carlington, or jimbobmacdoodle. If freezeblade is independent, what would be his win condition? If he is a survivor he could have tried to join jimbobmacdoodle N3 or N4.

Updated list of night actions. Fishy claims in italics.
Spoiler:
N1 actions (SirGabriel night killed)
adnapemit – none (claim)
ahippo – (made weapon?)
bessie – watch mpolo (no visitors)
Carlington – track ahippo, did not do anything (probably killed SirGabriel)
freezeblade – none (claim)
Gopher of Pern – bulletproof
jimbobmacdoodle – redirect Znirk to Sabrar
LaserGuy – none (claim)
Madge – block Znirk
mpolo – jail Sabrar
plytho – follow Sabrar (did not use an action)
Sabrar – kill bessie (failed, jailed by mpolo)
SirGabriel – doctor Madge (mod confirmed)
Znirk – track Sabrar (failed, blocked)

N2 actions (ahippo/SirGabriel night killed)
adnapemit – none (claim)
ahippo/SirGabriel – unknown
bessie – watch Gopher of Pern (no visitors)
Carlington – doctor plytho (irrelevant, failed because blocked)
freezeblade – commute
Gopher of Pern – unknown
jimbobmacdoodle – redirect Carlington to adnapemit
LaserGuy – none (claim)
Madge – block Carlington
mpolo/SDK – jail LaserGuy
plytho – follow freezeblade (action failed)
Sabrar – kill ahippo/SirGabriel

N2 order of actions
Freezeblade commutes.
Madge blocks Carlington.
SDK jails LaserGuy.
[GoP doctor action would go here]
[ahippo/SirG bodyguard action would go here]
Jimbobmacdoodle redirects Carlington to adnapemit
Carlington kills ? (failed, blocked)
Sabrar kills ahippo/SirGabriel
[ahippo/SirG vig kill would go here]
[GoP cop action would go here]
bessie watches Gopher of Pern, no visitors.
plytho follows freezeblade (failed).

N3 actions (Gopher of Pern, mpolo/SDK night killed)
adnapemit – kill Gopher of Pern
bessie – watch SDK (visited by Carlington)
Carlington – kill SDK
freezeblade – none available
Gopher of Pern – unknown
jimbobmacdoodle – redirect adnapemit to freezeblade (failed, blocked)
LaserGuy – none (claim)
Madge – block jimbobmacdoodle
mpolo/SDK – jail LaserGuy
plytho – follow adnapemit (used a kill)

N4 actions (Madge night killed)
adnapemit – no claims
bessie – watch Madge (visited by LaserGuy)
freezeblade – none
jimbobmacdoodle – redirect adnapemit to LaserGuy
LaserGuy – kill Madge
Madge – unknown (probably blocks adnapemit)
plytho – follow LaserGuy (used a kill)

N4 order of actions
Madge blocks adnapemit
jimbobmacdoodle redirects adnapemit to LaserGuy
LaserGuy kills Madge
bessie watches Madge, sees LaserGuy visit
plytho sees LaserGuy use a kill

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm surprised bessie and plytho haven't actually placed a vote yet. I assume they will go on adnapemit.


Vote: adnapemit

Because I think LaserGuy is trying to bait me into switching the vote to him.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:58 am UTC

bessie, plytho - I am aware I could try to redirect scum tonight. However, should I do so and get observed doing so by scum, it gives them more reason to kill me N6.

@bessie - I think your counting is wrong somewhere. Assuming I side with scum and get no lynch today, there should be 2 night kills and 1 lynch between now and the start of D7. N5, scum kill plytho; D6, we lynch freezeblade; N6, scum kill you, leaving 2 scum and me alive, and the game should end (potentially, depending on the nature of the strongman ability, it could end at the end of D6, since there's nothing that could stop scum killing that night).

@plytho - if scum have strong man, it is likely only 1-shot, as there was otherwise no reason to kill Madge last night, plus Sabrar's ninja was 1-shot. If they don't they probably wouldn't have any reason to lie about it that I can think of.

To my knowledge, I do not have a recruiting power (ignoring any hidden information that led to mine and Znirk's alliance).

@Scum - I can only give me word that I won't try to redirect one of you tonight, if I side with you (I haven't made my mind up yet). You should probably consider whether to use your strongman, in case I change my mind.

Can we get the current votals, please?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:30 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:bessie, plytho - I am aware I could try to redirect scum tonight. However, should I do so and get observed doing so by scum, it gives them more reason to kill me N6.


1. If you're successful they can't kill you N6 because we lynch the remaining scum D6. We'd be at 3-1-1 on D6.

2. If you fail and we lose a town: we're at 2-1-2 on D6.

2.a. If you learned who the strongman is, we can lynch the strongman and you can redirect the remaining scum to town to make sure you don't die. This brings us to 1-1-1 on D7 with you as a deciding vote (unless you redirected to freezeblade's PGO, in which case we'd be at 2-1-1).

2.b. If you don't learn who the strongman is and believe scum is still a threat to you (because they still have their strongman), you can help them lynch town, starting N6 at 1-1-2. Scum, still having their strongman, now targets the remaining townie with their strongman and win the game.

Scum don't have any reason to kill you N6 as you can not be a threat to them at that point. Let me know if I missed something.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:54 am UTC

I don't think bessie is recruitable by jimbob. But it would be worth trying. You should target each other tonight just to be sure. :wink:
bessie wrote:jimbob, if you decide to no lynch today, you should try to kill scum tonight for your own protection.

He doesn't need to try and kill us for protection. If he helps us we are not going to try to kill him.
bessie wrote:To ensure your win, you should either try to kill one of them tonight or make sure they have to use their strongman power tonight, so it won’t be available to blackmail you with on D6.
How exactly do you suggest that he makes us use the strongman kill?
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: By the way, I looked up Strongman on the Mafia Universe page and it said that it ignores redirection (amongst other things), although obviously dimochka could have created a slightly different role.
Yes but it’s not specified on the MafiaScum page, which only says that the kill can’t be blocked. There was an issue a couple years ago, maybe it was Draculafia, where the mod used a different interpretation of the jailer than what everyone was expecting (the MafiaScum doctor+roleblocker) and allowed a cop action through. So, don't assume
Yes risk it instead of playing the guaranteed way to win. I promise scum wont try to kill jimbob while both me and LaserGuy are still alive.
bessie wrote:OK, now back to LaserGuy.
LaserGuy wrote:We had narrowed down the choice of possible recruits to you (you put out very early in your setup spec that there was a likely recruit, and repeated the idea several times even when nobody else did) and Znirk (based on flavor).

Not true. There were others that discussed recruiting more than me, and the possibility of a mafia traitor more than me.
There wasn't a lot from my perspective to suggest you were recruitable. Sabrar and LaserGuy were more the ones who thought that. But if you were I thought you would make a good recruit .(A townie player would be much better than the more likely recruitable Znirk who was already close to being lynched)
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:42 am UTC

adnapemit wrote:
bessie wrote:To ensure your win, you should either try to kill one of them tonight or make sure they have to use their strongman power tonight, so it won’t be available to blackmail you with on D6.
How exactly do you suggest that he makes us use the strongman kill?
Jimbob is considering redirecting one of you. This might encourage you to use your (hypothetical) strongman tonight. See:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Scum - I can only give me word that I won't try to redirect one of you tonight, if I side with you (I haven't made my mind up yet). You should probably consider whether to use your strongman, in case I change my mind.


adnapemit wrote:
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: By the way, I looked up Strongman on the Mafia Universe page and it said that it ignores redirection (amongst other things), although obviously dimochka could have created a slightly different role.
Yes but it’s not specified on the MafiaScum page, which only says that the kill can’t be blocked. There was an issue a couple years ago, maybe it was Draculafia, where the mod used a different interpretation of the jailer than what everyone was expecting (the MafiaScum doctor+roleblocker) and allowed a cop action through. So, don't assume
Yes risk it instead of playing the guaranteed way to win. I promise scum wont try to kill jimbob while both me and LaserGuy are still alive.


As I explained in my previous post, jimbob can try to redirect one of you and still guarantee he wins.

@jimbob, if you prefer a win with bessie and don't like being blackmailed you can go for no-lynch tonight and try to redirect scum to scum. This does not risk your life and increases your odds of winning with bessie. Openly declaring you will redirect scum to scum tonight obviously won't work. I just want to make sure you're aware of this option.

I also want scum to be aware of this option and use their hypothecical strongman tonight.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:39 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Jimbob is considering redirecting one of you. This might encourage you to use your (hypothetical) strongman tonight.

Redirecting still requires him to target a player using an ability.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:57 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:
plytho wrote:Jimbob is considering redirecting one of you. This might encourage you to use your (hypothetical) strongman tonight.

Redirecting still requires him to target a player using an ability.

I don't understand what you're saying here. What's the problem with jimbob targeting a player using an ability?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 5 (The King is Dead!)

Postby adnapemit » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:01 pm UTC

If the player doesn't use an ability redirecting doesn't work.
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