The Dark Tower - Mission failure

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:48 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:8/3/1/1 would be my guess, as I think Sabrar said everyone has power roles, with one anti-town indy (SK likely), and one neutral indy (survivor, possibly)

@GoP I ignored this D1 trying to avoid drawing attention to the fact that you claimed power town in your first post. Why would you say this without being 100% sure that there are no vanilla roles?


Probably because of this:

Sabrar wrote:The Dark Tower

(Stephen King Mafia)


Description: Closed setup. Everyone is a power-role with standard abilities (though perhaps with some slight variations).

Because GoP said "I think". If he wasn't 100% sure he shouldn't be admitting he is a power role. I am trying to suss out scum here, please let people answer their own questions.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:17 am UTC

Why would I reply to that?

If I reply that I wasn't aware that everyone had a power role, that gives me townie cred.

If I reply that I was aware that everyone had a power role, it gives you...nothing.

You keep on barking up the wrong trees.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Sabrar » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:08 am UTC

Deadline is in 5 days. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 1 (Gopher of Pern)
jimbobmacdoodle - 1 (#HBC | YOLOSWAG)
mpolo - 1 (FrozenFlame)

Not voting: everyone else

6 to hammer, tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:03 pm UTC

Looks like I'm not the only one who's busy. Marking sucks. I'll get a real post up tomorrow morning.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Sabrar » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:55 am UTC

Dark clouds gathered in the sky from all directions despite the apparent contradiction to the laws of physics. The weather seemed to be under the Crimson King's control, suppressing the travelers' will to continue and draining their resolve. Their eventual doom crept ever closer.

Is everyone just busy at the same time or has interest in the game died down? Do you need an extension, or would a shorter deadline be more effective as an incentive?

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:00 am UTC

I've been busy

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:13 am UTC

I've been busy too (and will be until Monday, as stated previously). However, I do have this bus journey into work, so here are some brief thoughts:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Why would I reply to that?

If I reply that I wasn't aware that everyone had a power role, that gives me townie cred.

If I reply that I was aware that everyone had a power role, it gives you...nothing.

You keep on barking up the wrong trees.
Because somebody directly asked you a question? The tone of your explanation can sometimes also be useful in developing reads and it's polite if nothing else. Why does not knowing everybody has a power role give you townie cred anyway? That being said, regarding Boomfrog's comments, I personally am pretty sure I've both seen that slip and made it myself in past games.

I need to go back and check, but LaserGuy's reads list felt like it had a lot of players as scummy. I also don't remember having Zyth down as lurking, but I did my read on him fairly early, so I'll take another look at this. SK!mpolo is certainly possible based on some things he's said.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby mpolo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:50 pm UTC

So, I have reread from my last reread:

Spoiler:
Situation at start: Slight scummy reads on BoomFrog, YOLOSWAG, dimochka (earlier jimbob)

YOLOSWAG - scum is in [jimbob/dimochka/boomfrog/GoP/frozen/Carlington]. Thinks jimbob and dimochka are not necessarily co-aligned. Votes dimochka. Tried to "link" jimbob to dimochka with a vote, with no real effect. Wants more from lurkers, more reads from Frozen.

D2: Vote jimbob. (Both voters yesterday were town). Why keep vote on BoomFrog, mpolo? Wants opinions of FrozenFlame. Explains flip slip.

Zyth - BoomFrog looks like scum lying low, only dimochka sees him townie. Reveals his handle on Smash.

D2: mafia killed plytho and SK bessie. Doesn't understand dimochka's town read of BoomFrog. YOLO and Frozen are town. Scummy are myself, Carlington, LaserGuy, Jimbob.

bessie - voted jimbob for damage control mode. Not sure whether pregame post from SDK is fair game. Reads: possible collusion jimbob-Carlington, no scummy reads. likes YOLOSWAG's list. Picks up on BoomFrog's over-enthusiasm about Carlington and stretch of the truth about my scumchat comment. Reads: jimbob, dimochka, Carlington, FrozenFlame mafia. Comments post. Townies claim too often, dimochka needs to give ordered list.

plytho: scummiest are dimochka, jimbob, then several neutrals. Likes LaserGuy's catch. Points out another error in BoomFrog's chronology. Clarification on BoomFrog.

BoomFrog: responds - his "unofficial vote" for dimochka should be mitigating. Falls back on statement that he is a master of mafia. LaserGuy's catch makes him townie. Likes jimbob picking up on the "master of Mafia" quote. "Reveals": changed vote from dimochka without thinking he wasn't scummy - wanted to spark discussion. Reads based on connections to dimochka (scum are jimbob, myself and dimochka). If dimochka is town, LaserGuy may be scum. Zyth doing better reads than he said he would. Backs off of Carlington pressure, doubles down on "intentional slip". Damage control about Carlington -- too excited about shenanigans. Rereads Carlington - no real scumhunting. Why did YOLOSWAG unvote dimochka. Likes SDKs reads. GoP and Carlington are scummy. Wants claim from dimochka. Snarky comment about unofficial votes. Gopher just throwing mud.

D2: Also early on dimochka. Obviously SK. No pushback on jimbob, so prob non-mafia. Didn't see "no vanilla". Advice for SK. Need stronger opinions. Four or five. Doesn't like people choosing only one scum. Let people answer own questions.

LaserGuy - BoomFrog was not the first to bring up dimochka as scummy, SDK was. Wonders if bessie is lampshading scumminess. Reads: FrozenFlame, jimbob, BoomFrog, dimochka scum. Fairly certain BoomFrog is scum. Seems a stretch that BoomFrog could miss that Carlington is not newbie. Explains why so many quotes for this. Some questions.

D2: no results. Assumption is SK and mafia. Redirect also unlikely. Carlington's name slip bothering. Don't understand dim's play. Scummy: BoomFrog, Carlington (exclusive to GoP and BoomFrog), Gopher, jimbob (possibly with Zyth, possibly being more careful now). Likeliest SKs are myself or Zyth.

jimbobmacdoodle - Gopher's comment about me was unusual. Lots of questions. FoS BoomFrog. Explains why he ignored "master of mafia" at the beginning. LaserGuy may be over-eager in attack on BoomFrog. FrozenFlame seems to have already decided who is scum before he does his reads. Explains why he defended GoP. Frozen edging townie. BoomFrog very sure of 4 scum.

D2: Not likely SK, maybe PGO. Why claim so much, Carlington? Still possible to have a couple of indies. downplays name slips by Carlington.

Gopher of Pern - a little snarky about the "howevers". The reads were the first four on the list. Thinks I might deliberately slip about scumchat. Ignored the "master of mafia". Reads: scummiest YOLOSWAG, dimochka, bessie, jimbob. BoomFrog seems to be buddying SDK. Votes: YOLOSWAG. Doesn't see BoomFrog's sudden "strong scum" read on him.

D2: would not have shot plytho. FOS Carlington. Votes YOLO for his vote and mudslinging. BoomFrog barking up wrong trees.

Carlington - agrees that BoomFrog's read was weird. Will try to communicate more clearly. Jimbob and GoP could be co-aligned. Wants to be more active (explains name slip). Would have voted dimochka.

D2: SK or vig? No power used, no evidence of targeting. GoP would be vig against plytho, oops bessie. YOLO's plan won't work because of how flips work. Suspicion of jimbob is consistent.

dimochka (pre-lynch): should I claim? Laserguy neutral leaning town.

SDK: dimochka should claim. Long reads post. Possible scum in reads list: YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog, Gopher, dimochka. Interestingly, YOLOSWAG is "Overall, could be scum", but is at the bottom of his "townie" list. Scum is: BoomFrog, Carlington, Gopher, dimochka. Gives reason for YOLO going up.

D2: Admits starting dimochka wagon.

FrozenFlame: YOLOSWAG's meta is town. Boomfrog and Zyth are the strongest town leans. No scum leans. LaserGuy scummy (too on edge), myself (too agency-less and hedging). Dimochka scummy. Post written beginning with the easiest to explain cases.

D2: Reverses Zyth's read on who killed whom. Votes me for too much activity (not voting dimochka to keep hands from getting dirty - [if I were SK, I wouldn't know who is town])


I don't think BoomFrog has improved all that much. He is more active, and I thought he might come around the bend with his first longer post. However, on reread, he remains very shady. Lots of snarky comments, focusing on very small things (in itself not bad), but in a way that feels more like desperately trying to make something stick. Also trying to claim townie credit for an "unofficial vote" that supposedly started a wagon, not good. => SCUM

YOLOSWAG is rather light on content, and mostly posts little prods. I am now thinking that that's consistent with what I know of him from before, but I was mod on one of the games he played, so wasn't analysing at that level. => Neutralish, possibly a little active lurkiness.

dimochka - well, at least I didn't hammer. But I would have, if it were consensus. I really can't explain his situation. I suppose we should take a look at his leads, but in the part I just reread, there was only one (LaserGuy leaning town)

Zyth has been too quiet. I really want to see more content here. What we've had is fairly unremarkable. => Neutral, lurky

LaserGuy has been producing fairly quality content. Likely town, even if I strongly disagree with one of his conclusions.

jimbob has improved since Day 1, but posting quantity has gone down. He's probably still on the scummy side of neutral.

Gopher of Pern's content on D2 is mostly responses to prodding, with little attempt to get this moving. I will call this neutral for now, but it won't take much more of that to edge it into scummy territory.

Carlington is making more effort to post, and he has made some good "mechanical" catches. Neutral

SDK: Probably my most confident town pick. At one point it looked like he was being inconsistent within the same analysis post, but he seems to have explained the change of heart while writing it. Town.

FrozenFlame: Don't particularly like his having my strongest scum pick as his strongest town pick. There's been a little bit of latching onto something to see if it sticks (accusing me of simultaneously being a serial killer, who would not know who town or scum are, and staying off of the townie dimochka wagon to look better). Slight scum lean, from my POV, but no one else seems to be seeing it that way.

Scum
Boomfrog
jimbob
YOLO
Zyth
Gopher
Carlington
LaserGuy
SDK
Town

I will probably be light on posting in the weekend (Sat. Morning something quick, then Sunday night or Monday).
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:56 pm UTC

@Sabrar

I'm definitely still interested!

@mpolo

Where would you put frozen on that list?

To anyone who has asked me questions (I know Laser asked me about Frozen), I will respond. I would just like Carlington's thoughts on frozen and will post my scum pool afterwards.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby mpolo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:47 pm UTC

Sorry, missed Frozen. I thought I had counted the names, too.

He is probably in third place. So the whole list would be:

Scum
Boomfrog
jimbob
FrozenFlame
YOLO
Zyth
Gopher
Carlington
LaserGuy
SDK
Town
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:02 pm UTC

Can we get a mod-prod on Carlington and Frozen? They haven't posted since Tuesday.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:40 am UTC

I've been busy with real life. Wife's out of town so I'm a single parent this week.

GoP's reaction is confusing to me, it's very abrasive which doesn't make sense as town or scum, it's as if I've annoyed him. I really want to read it as defensive and scummy, but that doesn't make much sense either. It's dismissive, I think I'm going to believe him that I'm looking for something in nothing. :? Actually, looking at it again, it is logically incorrect, but it's incorrect in a townie way, ignoring the perspective that scum!GoP would have, so I think I'm going have to go with townie on GoP. Hilarious. I was all set to drum up a lynch on you an hour ago... You really haven't been a very helpful townie this game.

That said everyone should be laying out their reads now or even if we get scum today we will be lost on D3. I'm going to work on a reads list right now (although I should be going to sleep so it might be a bit rushed.)
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:36 am UTC

Reads:
Spoiler:
Actions speak louder then words so let's start with the D1 lynch. Yoloswag switched off domichka for theoretically the same reason that I did, although he explained his reason after me, but still it's the only thing that makes sense in light of domichka being town. The alternative would be that he didn't want to settle on a townie too fast, it's possible if JimBob is town which I think he is. Still, for avoiding the easy townie lynch I give YOLOSWAG a slightly townie.

JimBob and domichka were tied at 4 votes each for a while and no one seemed to care. If Jim was scum then someone would have tried to build a better case against domichka unless all the scum were already voting domichka which seems unlikely. So for this I give JimBob probably townie.

GoP discussed in the last post. Probably townie.

FrozenFlame I wish I had more to go on, since he's been so lurky but he's given me a townie vibe in the way he thinks. Especially this little bit:
FrozenFlame wrote:Now, Yoloswag certainly isn't the type of scum player that I'd expect to shy away from attacking me, so ultimately him not holding back and grouping me in his scum reads doesn't exonerate him, but it shows me he's getting down to business in this game and isn't going to just give me homie cred for free. This distrust coming from him is a good sign IMO.
So slightly townie.

Zyth is similar, he's been lurking a bit but gives me townie vibes when he does post. Also slightly townie.

SDK is a good enough player that he could be scum despite the relatively townie content. The fact is the result of his actions has been detrimental to town so far and he hasn't made up for it D2. Yes dimochka was acting quite scummy, but the lynch was too easy. If I wasn't so rusty I would have tried to call it off, and I was kicking myself at the start of D2, but SDK brushed it off like there was nothing we could have done. Slightly scummy.

mpolo several pings so far but I do believe the no scum chat mistake was sincere. Might be the SK. @mpolo why do you rate SDK so townie when he actually hasn't helped town at all this game? - undecided.

carlington - annoyingly lurkery, some townie pings, like playing along with my "accidental gambit" but scum!carlington probably would have done that too. Not actually trying to find scum which really just makes him either useless or scum. And honestly, every townie has a power. If his was passive like one-shot bulletproof or PGO then he would know to keep his trap shut. The accidental vanilla claim really feels like a mafia goon making a mistake. - scum

LaserGuy - very aggressive weither town or scum. Has an interesting interaction D1 where SDK challenges him to clarify his reads and he flips a JimBob read to scum and SDK read to town from what he initially seemed like he was saying. Never mind, I reread it to make sure and I had it completely wrong. LaserGuy has been entirely consistent. Really I think he rubbed me the wrong way early and it made him feel scummy, but he has been so damn enthusiastic and determined I just can't imagine someone being that dedicated to being scum. dimochka was an easy mislynch but he was still active and trying to figure things out. I have to go with townie.


Well that was a fun trip. I put LaserGuy last because I thought I was going to conclude scummy but I had to change my mind. And carlington is worse then I remember. That leaves me with too many town which kinda pushes SDK and mpolo into scum territory, although I don't think they are both mafia. So I'm definitely misreading someone, probably a lurker. For today though I'd be content to lynch carlington. I wouldn't support an SDK lynch today, I want to give a chance for town!SDK to prove me wrong.

vote Carlington
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Sabrar » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:22 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Can we get a mod-prod on Carlington and Frozen? They haven't posted since Tuesday.

Mod-prods have been sent out.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Carlington » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:37 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
So I'm definitely misreading someone, probably a lurker.

...

vote Carlington
:wink:

My thoughts on FrozenFlame for the benefit of YOLOSWAG:
He was slightly scummy in my last reads list, but I bought his explanation for his pre-categorised reads and he hasn't really said anything I found objectionable since then. I might still have him down as a scum candidate, but only just slightly.

Let me post this now and then I'm going to work on a proper set of reads for content since D2 started.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Carlington » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:51 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Yes dimochka was acting quite scummy, but the lynch was too easy. If I wasn't so rusty I would have tried to call it off, and I was kicking myself at the start of D2, but SDK brushed it off like there was nothing we could have done. Slightly scummy.

Two questions: Why should we buy the coulda, woulda, shoulda you're giving us? When did you decide that you would've tried to call it off? If you decided dimochka wasn't scummy before the lynch, why didn't you unvote? You only voted roughly 24 hours before deadline in the first place, which isn't that long of a turn-around.

Okay, that was actually three questions.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Carlington » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:07 am UTC

I won't pretend that my messing up the names of bessie and plytho or my apparent overclaiming was a deliberate gambit, but I am certainly going to try and make use of people's reactions to it in gauging my read of them.

GoP: The reaction to my name slip seemed genuine and not manufactured. His early focus was on YOLOSWAG, which could carry a hint of OMGUS. Not much content in D2, and a very large proportion of posts (and this includes a little look back at the end of D1) are very touchy and defensive, attacking people for asking questions rather than seeking to find scum. Seems reasonably scummy to me. In my prior reads post I wrote that I could take a lot of things in a lot of directions - I recall having a gut negative feeling, but I didn't want to plow away at something so intangible. The feeling hasn't faded, though.

Zyth: Has been very busy, and so not a lot of content. I would like to know what he found confusing about dimochka's meta-read of BoomFrog. I would also appreciate seeing him elucidate on his reads - it's clear that he has impressions. Addendum - I tried to firm up my feelings by re-reading him from game-start, and there's honestly not very much there. He's been asking questions of people but not really doing anything with the answers. I don't see an explicit reads list from him anywhere, and I find it odd that more people aren't questioning this (especially in view of people questioning me for having a reads list but not spelling it out). The more I read of his posts, the more clear it becomes that for whatever reason he does not want to share his thoughts with the rest of us. I don't really think I can call him scum because there's nothing scummy, but I don't like whatever it is he's doing and I don't want to say he's town.

mpolo: I like his rational approach to dealing with the losses overnight. I don't know whether I outright agree that hitting SK is a necessary play today, but I can see his thinking. (If we hit scum then worst case tomorrow is 4-2-1 where town is forced to lynch the SK or else lose the majority. If we hit SK then tomorrow is 5-3 which is MYLO). I think on balance that he is town, but I would like to see him try to give us a more decisive opinion on his current neutral reads.

YOLOSWAG: I don't know what V/LA means, but I guess it means low activity in some regard. I thought he was active-lurky yesterday, and I would like to see him expand his thoughts on jimbob into a full case so I can judge. I'm assuming he'll leave his vote on jimbob until day's end unless there are fairly drastic changes. Something feels off about him, but it's quite possible that he simply has an unfamiliar playstyle and I'm adjusting. I could see him as scum only if process of elimination necessitates it.

jimbob: I don't see anything explicitly scummy about his play, but something still feels off. It could be as simple as the level on which he is engaging with the game. He has said he's busy in real life, so it could just be that he's low on time to play, but I feel like the questions he's asking aren't geared towards generating genuine discussion, as is his usual way. A little scum lean, mostly meta-based.

SDK: He hasn't yet given me anything today, so based on his D1 posts after my reads list yesterday, I'm going to put him as town. His reads have actual reasoning to them and take a lot of things into account, which shows a willingness to put more effort in than I believe scum would do. Town.

FrozenFlame: As above, I might have him just on the scummy side of neutral but it's not by a huge margin. I guess he went off a little hard about my weird claim.

LaserGuy: He looks like he's making a genuine effort to draw connections between players and build networks of future lynch candidates based on the next flip or two. His reads have reasons behind them and he is asking direct questions and chasing the information he needs to get a clearer picture. This is pretty textbook town play, and it's done convincingly, so I'll put him as town.

BoomFrog: I feel like he could be the SK. I don't have a very solid read yet, so I'd like to ask the following questions of him

BoomFrog wrote:I can probably hit scum with the lynch today but we need to buy them every day from now on.
First, what does this mean, particularly the latter half?

Second, what makes you believe mpolo is the SK?

Overall:
Town
SDK
LaserGuy
mpolo
Zyth
YOLOSWAG
FrozenFlame
BoomFrog (SK?)
jimbob
GoP
Scum

To respond to the question jimbob addressed to me at day's start, what I meant was that I don't think we could have started at 8/3/1/1 because we would be at MYLO (and I assumed the mod would tell us if so). However, I'm not so sure now that I know we won't be told if we're at MYLO/LYLO.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:04 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Final votals:

dimochka - 6 (SDK, #HBC | Zyth, LaserGuy, jimbobmacdoodle, #HBC | YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog)
jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (bessie, dimochka)
BoomFrog - 1 (mpolo)
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 1 (Gopher of Pern)

Not voting: Carlington, FrozenFlame, plytho


I'm actually looking at the votes outside of the two major D1 wagons. That's [mpolo/GoP/Carlington/frozen]. There's definitely at least one scum there if not two, with another probably on the dimochka train.

I wouldn't lynch Frozen. He's one of the last players I'd go. If he's innocent, I'm very confident scum are placing him on their neutral/scummy list because they can. That's something to look out for but I'm too lazy to look more into it now.

That leaves GoP, mpolo, and Carlington. I'm fine with this lynchpool and would probably go in that order, with a strong preference for GoP. Jimbob I'd love to see go as well, but he seems to have escaped out of everyone's scumlist by improving his play since early D1. I'm down to lynch him but if there's no traction there I'll switch to GoP, wouldn't mind seeing mpolo go either.

@boomfrog

Let's take your reads list face value meaning you and I are innocent. This would make jimbob's top 2 scum picks (you and me) both wrong, just FYI (I'm going off memory but I'm pretty sure jimbob listed us as his top two).

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:37 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
Yes dimochka was acting quite scummy, but the lynch was too easy. If I wasn't so rusty I would have tried to call it off, and I was kicking myself at the start of D2, but SDK brushed it off like there was nothing we could have done. Slightly scummy.

Two questions: Why should we buy the coulda, woulda, shoulda you're giving us? When did you decide that you would've tried to call it off? If you decided dimochka wasn't scummy before the lynch, why didn't you unvote? You only voted roughly 24 hours before deadline in the first place, which isn't that long of a turn-around.

Okay, that was actually three questions.
When I was thinking through my "pull back the curtain" post I was trying to analyze the voting behavior. My thought process was something like: Stagnate voting means scum don't care who we lynch. -> dimochka and Jim are same alignment -> we can't possibly have been lucky enough to hit two scum D1 -> therefore they are both town. -> but no way, dimochka it's acting so scummy -> therefore dimochka is scum - > therefore he must have told his scum mates to bus him early in scum chat -> therefore the late votes like LaserGuy are scum -> but LaserGuy didn't switch -> gah! This game is hard (which is why I love it) -> let's just stir the pot and do unexpected things to create connections for D2 -> vote dimochka he's been so scummy. -> maybe we really got two scum D1??

So when I saw the flip at the start of D2 I got a really bad case of "wish I woulda".
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:46 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:BoomFrog: I feel like he could be the SK. I don't have a very solid read yet, so I'd like to ask the following questions of him

BoomFrog wrote:I can probably hit scum with the lynch today but we need to buy them every day from now on.
First, what does this mean, particularly the latter half?

Second, what makes you believe mpolo is the SK?

"Buy" should be "hit" in that sentence. It's a new kind of typo, the swipo.

I think mpolo isn't mafia because I belive him about the scum chat slip. But he feels un-townie. He didn't push for anything D1, basically hoping on the dimochka wagon by not pushing very much for his top scum choice. He's been pretty passive. The problem is mpolo is generally fairly passive even as town. So my read is slightly scummy but not mafia. Hence maybe SK.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:59 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:@boomfrog

Let's take your reads list face value meaning you and I are innocent. This would make jimbob's top 2 scum picks (you and me) both wrong, just FYI (I'm going off memory but I'm pretty sure jimbob listed us as his top two).

Looking at just the voting behavior: If JimBob is town scum team is probably two out of (GoP, mpolo, carlington, frozenflame) + one of (SDK, zynth, LaserGuy)

If JimBob is scum then his mates are likely two of (SDK, zynth, LaserGuy) which is why no one else added a vote to dimochka since they were all already there. Today second scenario seems off, scum know better then piling on that early like that.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

@GoP why have you been so reactive D2 and doing virtually no scum hunting? Can you lay out some reads for us?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:18 pm UTC

@Carlington: what do you think of my opinion of SDK?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:54 pm UTC

P.S. @carlington: I don't care if you believe me that I regret lunching dimochka. My point was that SDK lacked any hint of regret which surprised me and ping's my scumdar.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:12 am UTC

vote: mpolo
I haven't liked his play so far, he has been extremely non committal, with his strongest scum read being boomfrog since Day 1 and him making absolutely no effort to push at all, does not sit well with me. I do not think that a townie would not care to push for a lynch they believe will net scum. That is even more apparent come Day 2, when there still isn't a clear lynch, and yet, he is still not doing anything with his reads. His latest reads post also feels weird, he has 2 town reads and everyone below that is neutral at best, heck, with Carlington of all people leading the neutrals.
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Final votals:

dimochka - 6 (SDK, #HBC | Zyth, LaserGuy, jimbobmacdoodle, #HBC | YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog)
jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (bessie, dimochka)
BoomFrog - 1 (mpolo)
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 1 (Gopher of Pern)

Not voting: Carlington, FrozenFlame, plytho


I'm actually looking at the votes outside of the two major D1 wagons. That's [mpolo/GoP/Carlington/frozen]. There's definitely at least one scum there if not two, with another probably on the dimochka train.

I wouldn't lynch Frozen. He's one of the last players I'd go. If he's innocent, I'm very confident scum are placing him on their neutral/scummy list because they can. That's something to look out for but I'm too lazy to look more into it now.

That leaves GoP, mpolo, and Carlington. I'm fine with this lynchpool and would probably go in that order, with a strong preference for GoP. Jimbob I'd love to see go as well, but he seems to have escaped out of everyone's scumlist by improving his play since early D1. I'm down to lynch him but if there's no traction there I'll switch to GoP, wouldn't mind seeing mpolo go either.

@boomfrog

Let's take your reads list face value meaning you and I are innocent. This would make jimbob's top 2 scum picks (you and me) both wrong, just FYI (I'm going off memory but I'm pretty sure jimbob listed us as his top two).


If we assume GoP is town, would that make the scum team mpolo, Carlington and jimbob? I don't actually have a very good read on jimbob at all.

@Carlington
Dimochka's read of boomfrog made no sense to me because, up to that point, there was literally nothing to go off of. All boomfrog had done was vote dimochka for not liking his retracting of his joke vote. And now that we see how boomfrog is actually playing, it makes even less sense, as to how boomfrog's play previously could get anyone a meta read. Also, I find it hard to believe that anyone would have a meta of doing nothing as town.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:21 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@GoP why have you been so reactive D2 and doing virtually no scum hunting? Can you lay out some reads for us?


??

I don't understand. I'm 90% confident that YOLOSWAG is scum, due to my previous points. Can add now YOLOSWAG's preference for just going after people not involved in the lynch, and providing no other reasons to go after the people mentioned. They have not deemed to reply to what I've said about them, not even the dismissive way I talked about your question.

Carlington is almost certainly scum. Their slip early in the day, as well as their activity yesterday, which was very similar to their activity in previous games, leads to that.

BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:@boomfrog

Let's take your reads list face value meaning you and I are innocent. This would make jimbob's top 2 scum picks (you and me) both wrong, just FYI (I'm going off memory but I'm pretty sure jimbob listed us as his top two).

Looking at just the voting behavior: If JimBob is town scum team is probably two out of (GoP, mpolo, carlington, frozenflame) + one of (SDK, zynth, LaserGuy)

If JimBob is scum then his mates are likely two of (SDK, zynth, LaserGuy) which is why no one else added a vote to dimochka since they were all already there. Today second scenario seems off, scum know better then piling on that early like that.


I don't get why the scum team is probably that. Can you explain your reasoning?

As for other reads:

mpolo I believe to be town. I think the slip was genuine, not forced.

jimbob, I'm undecided. I think they could be scum, but I feel better about their content today than yesterday.

SDK I'm starting to think is scummy. I do believe 'taking the blame' for the lynch is a way to seem townie, while they are secretly cackling to themselves.

laserguy I feel is town. Got some decent content.

Frozenflame I'm undecided on. Not knowing their meta, and not having much to go on, makes it hard to read.

Zyth I feel is town. Although they haven't posted much, I like what they have.

Boomfrog I'm feeling better about. Todays content has been driven by boomfrog, and I can't see any slips from them.

So, a list:

GopherofPern
laserguy
Zyth
mpolo
Boomfrog
Frozenflame
jimbob
SDK
Carlington
YOLOSWAG
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:12 am UTC

Just have time for a few quick things...

BoomFrog is looking much townier today. I will have to do a full reread and try to re-evaluate properly when I have a bit more time, but based on what I've seen, I'm not planning on voting him today.

I'm surprised how confident GoP is in his scumreads in contrast to... well, virtually everyone else here. Making a note for later to reread him as well.

Either jimbob or Carlington lynch would be okay with me. I don't like the idea of lynching mpolo. If he isn't SK, I'm pretty sure he's town, and I'd rather not risk a mislynch on the chance of hitting the SK unless we're very confident in the decision. I'm not really happy with any of my scum reads right now... if we weren't in such a bad situation, I might be leaning toward a lurker lynch on Frozen, but I don't think we can afford to chance it.

@YOLOSWAG: I'd still like an answer to these:
A couple of questions for YOLOSWAG based on by earlier readthroughs. First, can you give a read on FrozenFlame now that he's posted some content? Second, what did you think of GoP's reply to you in response to your question about his quick reads list (see the read just above). Overall read here is still pretty townie.


@SDK: I'd still like an explanation for this read on Gopher:
SDK wrote:I don't like this read. If dimochka flips town, I'm coming for you. Otherwise... I might still be coming for you, actually. Need more content. Your reads are partial. Maybe scum

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:44 pm UTC

@Laser

Frozen is one of the last people I would lynch. I believe scum are putting him in their neutral/scum list to keep their options open under the guise of "he's not very active" despite his content being solid. I don't do town reads, if that's what you're asking.

As for GoP listing people in the order of the playerlist (I think that's what you're referring to), that's fine. It's a neutral move.

I encourage everyone to reevaluate their town reads. We're at a point where no matter who is being talked about, someone else is slapping a town read on them. This suggests townies are misreading scum as innocent. What I HAVE noticed is that no one is reading Carlington as town; I think he's the only player not being town read by others which is interesting.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:22 pm UTC

I've been even busier than expected this weekend. I expect to have plenty of time in about 24 hours for a thorough reads post. If anybody has anything specific they want me to address or answer, please let me know.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:48 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:mpolo I believe to be town. I think the slip was genuine, not forced.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What changed?

Gopher of Pern wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:In reguards to the mpolo scum chat thing, I think it is very possible that scum-mpolo didn't read his PM carefully and at that point scum hadn't used chat yet. So it's possible for mpolo to have genuinely not known mafia have chat and still be mafia. If mpolo is mafia that indicates the other mafia are more passive players, so plus townie points to SDK if mpolo is mafia. :roll:
I don't think that's very likely, but I do get the sense that mpolo is the type of player that may deliberately make that slip as scum, to throw off players. I was less sure of jimbob doing that deliberately.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby dimochka » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:57 pm UTC

SORRY! Please ignore
This was in a "The Dark Tower" spoiler so hopefully whoever saw this realized that the post was meant for Gojoe and didn't read it.
Last edited by dimochka on Mon May 01, 2017 2:46 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Sabrar » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:47 pm UTC

FrozenFlame hasn't logged onto the forum since Tuesday. He has 24 hours to make a post or be mod-killed/replaced. If replacement is found then a 24 hour extension to the deadline will be announced. Should he either return or be mod-killed then no extension will be given.

Votals:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 1 (Gopher of Pern)
jimbobmacdoodle - 1 (#HBC | YOLOSWAG)
mpolo - 1 (FrozenFlame)

Not voting: everyone else

6 to hammer, tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:07 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Pre reread, I have mpolo, carlington, laserguy and jimbob on my list, with the latter 2 being my weaker, fairly neutral reads. It could change post reread though that'll only be during the weekends.

In order to understand where your coming from I need you to explain your train of thought better. Especially LaserGuy, what makes you feel he is third scummiest?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:09 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:FrozenFlame hasn't logged onto the forum since Tuesday. He has 24 hours to make a post or be mod-killed/replaced. If replacement is found then a 24 hour extension to the deadline will be announced. Should he either return or be mod-killed then no extension will be given.
If FrozenFlame is modkilled will his alignment be revealed immediately or at the end of N2?

Ninja edit: Also I have a vote on Carlington.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Sabrar » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:22 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:If FrozenFlame is modkilled will his alignment be revealed immediately or at the end of N2?
At the end of N2.

BoomFrog wrote:Ninja edit: Also I have a vote on Carlington.
Apologies, corrected with another vote missed as well.

Votals:
mpolo - 2 (FrozenFlame, #HBC | Zyth)
Carlington - 1 (BoomFrog)
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 1 (Gopher of Pern)
jimbobmacdoodle - 1 (#HBC | YOLOSWAG)

Not voting: Carlington, jimbobmacdoodle, LaserGuy, mpolo, SDK

6 to hammer, tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:09 pm UTC

HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:As for GoP listing people in the order of the playerlist (I think that's what you're referring to), that's fine. It's a neutral move.


No, I don't think that's quite what I'm referring to. There's a very specific interaction I'd like you comment on. Namely this one:

Gopher of Pern wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Gopher
This post rubbed me the wrong way because there's a lot of "however, but" in these reads. It reminds me of scum being very choosy with his words and avoiding linking himself to anyone. Also, he said these are his first thoughts on a skim read. So that means that one of the first things he feels the town should know is that mpolo is null due to playing to his meta? I don't mean that in some kind of mocking way, I just find it hard to believe that that thought would be one of the first things he wants to share as town.


There was one however, and I've now realised that it was a mistake. I'm sorry for trying to analyse all the information, instead of blindly picking one fault and running with it. And your other concern is handled below.


What did you think of Gopher's reply here?

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:33 pm UTC

Ah.

I'm not sure what he means by the "there was one however" comment there? One what?

As for the "I'm sorry for trying to analyze all the information..." part, well, he's being sarcastic and maybe even annoyed. I'm not sure why he reacted that way, I think it was an overly strong response to a poke. However, I've never played with GoP before so maybe that post was par for the course with him, so he finds it ridiculous that I'd take issue with it because in his mind, it's perfectly normal. Actually.....I think the "sorry for taking in all the information instead of blindly running with one conclusion" comment (which made me chuckle as I just reread it) is an exaggeration. My concern was that I felt like he was making strides toward a read on one player, and immediately discrediting those steps with "but he could be this" afterwards. It made me think he was being very cautious with his words because it ALWAYS "could be this", it doesn't have to be explicitly stated.

That's pretty much all I've got on that exchange. If I knew more of GoP's meta/personality, I'd have an easier time of knowing if his response to me was in or out of character. I've noticed that he HAS shown a similar, "lol, what do you mean?" attitude towards boomfrog a little while ago after frog accused him of not scumhunting, so it's definitely a recurring aspect of his playstyle this game. I recall boomfrog openly wondering if GoP was acting like this as a frustrated townie earlier, but I'd guess he's smart enough to replicate that as scum. In other words, GoP tends to think the meaning/content of his posts are clearer than others see it at times.

3 more things.

1.) Zyth pointing out that most of mpolo's reads are nulls really gives me a bad feeling about the slot.

@Zyth

What do you think of GoP and SDK?

2.) Frozen is not lurking. He is inactive. As in, he's literally not reading the thread. People have slapped him on their "scum lurky" list despite that not being the truth (I believe mpolo at least has done it). Someone less lazy than I should check out who has said that because I guarantee at least 1 scum is posturing to keep him in bad standing with town by pointing to his post count as opposed to actual contribution. It's an easy way to keep a player in the "neutral/scum" zone. Very gross.

3) I'm not sure where SDK went, but I really hope he comes back because he fell off the face of the earth after D1.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:43 pm UTC

Actually, I probably HAVE played with GoP before, just a year or two ago so yeah, I don't have a grasp on his meta/personality.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon May 01, 2017 12:34 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Pre reread, I have mpolo, carlington, laserguy and jimbob on my list, with the latter 2 being my weaker, fairly neutral reads. It could change post reread though that'll only be during the weekends.

In order to understand where your coming from I need you to explain your train of thought better. Especially LaserGuy, what makes you feel he is third scummiest?

That was most PoE from my memory, I felt everyone else was more likely to be town than laserguy and jimbob, which are 2 slots that I'm not good at reading.

GoP, is town, even if I don't agree with his reads. SDK I felt was town Day 1, though he has started to get a lot of attention today, where he has practically not posted anything. I tried rereading his posts, but I still don't know what to think of the slot. Something that's interesting is that he sits atop both mpolo and Carlington's town lists, both of whom I feel are scummy and with fairly weak reasoning while the ones who I think are town, boomfrog and GoP, are starting to suspect him.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Mon May 01, 2017 12:49 am UTC

Vote mpolo

Choo choo.

Will happily switch to jimbob or Carlington.


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