Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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BoomFrog
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Sun May 14, 2017 4:07 am UTC

I cannot abide a greater fool then I. As you are remorselessly unhelpfully I will be helpfully remorseless.

Unvote
Vote DethStalker
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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bessie
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Sun May 14, 2017 7:14 am UTC

I beg forgiveness for my lackluster content, and shall make an effort to correct the situation without further delay. I was unavailable this past afternoon, as I was engaged in a journey to a local park of note. A magical kingdom, regarded by some on this earth to be the happiest of places, yet somehow made less happy by the presence of my mother-in-law.

Great Zeus, why didst thou, to man's sorrow, put woman, evil counterfeit, to dwell where shines the sun? If thou were minded that the human race should multiply, it was not from women they should have drawn their stock, but in thy temples they should have paid gold or iron or ponderous bronze and bought a family, each man proportioned to his offering, and so in independence dwelt, from women free. But now as soon as ever we would bring this plague into our home we bring its fortune to the ground. 'Tis clear from this how great a curse a woman is;

Oops, please excuse the misplaced dialogue, for in my distress it seems I have forgotten the play at hand, and instead relapsed into my much forgotten but nonetheless award-worthy performance of Hippolytus, that was unjustly unrecognized as one of the greatest performances of the role in modern times.

As I am now caught up to the events of our current play, I have made careful note of some things that stand out to me, and that I have hereto not commented.

Sabrar wrote:On a really serious note I'm eagerly awaiting bessie's analysis on DGames, LaserGuy, SDK, YOLOSWAG and Znirk.
Why me? Why these five? And why so serious?

SDK wrote:Speaking of role PM's, I'm just going to say this now: I have never received a more scummy town role PM. And I've been a Miller more than once (though I am not a Miller now).
mpolo wrote:The roles you have received are completely randomized, as are the powers. The groupings of factions were also completely randomized, though some powers were guaranteed to go with a certain faction. As a result, I have not provided "safe claims". Some powers may be duplicated, or be copied as a one-shot version of the same power.
I think this will keep me safe when it comes time to claiming, but I just wanted to get that out of the way.
I hope, for my brother's justification, he wrote this but as an essay or taste of my virtue, for I know not what to make of it. The reference to the words of our esteemed mod makes me think you wish to imply that your role/character is scummy, but since the alignments were randomized it means your scummy character is not indicative of a scummy alignment. This confuses me because legitimate Edgar is not villainous role. I, Edmund the bastard, claim the most villainous role in this play! :P

LaserGuy wrote:Second, I find SDK's assertion of bessie to be town to be most alarming, as it will require some heroic effort to keep her alive if this claim is true.
I’m wondering why you felt the need to point this out. Perchance you did want to ensure your scum partners didn’t miss it? Êtes-vous un roi ou un méchant?

DGames | Bard wrote:Forgive me, as I am new here, and so I am still ascertaining the qualities of this stage; where art thy proof of Bessie's innocence?
Wine warning. Tis a jest at my expense, for they refer to my infamous townie meta. I’m always town. I’ve played not scum for well over a year. I’ve been playing mafia for about three and a half years, on this stage only, and I played for about fourteen months before I was mafia. Methinks I’ve been mafia four times ever, and two of them were as replacements. There was a similar joke reference to freezeblade’s scummy meta; I think he had a ten game streak.

Gopher of Pern wrote: The fun will be in voting mechanics. So I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them. Scum may be able to manipulate them as well, but as the lynch is town's best (maybe only) way to kill scum, more open information about it would be better.
Methinks thou art role fishing. As pointed out by others, this would probably give more information to scum. But it does make me think we all need to be very careful with our votes, since we do not know what powers are in play. And as was implied by our all-powerful director, an accidental hammer is possible.

bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Secondly, Bessie, you scallywag! I demand you remove your vote at once!

Why don’t you try and make me.
I find it interesting this challenge was completely unacknowledged by you. Perhaps some blood drawn on me would beget opinion of my more fierce endeavour.

LaserGuy wrote:I am pleased that Gopher shares my suspicion of the villain SDK. We are kings together and are therefore above reproach, though he is a bit long winded for my liking.
Would you care to elaborate on this suspicion? Because the only thing you had said about SDK up to this point was the piece I quoted above.

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: would you mind voting someone else and letting official votals confirm it?
Missed this before. I’ll move my vote if and when my suspicion of Gopher of Pern is surpassed by yet another candidate.

SDK wrote:I think DethStalker might be scum, by the way.
Will you thus enlighten us with your reasons, or was this in your role PM too?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Ok, so there are now two votes on DethStalker, including my own. I am going to guess at one of the following, since my guesses in the last game were apparently pretty accurate.
1) Somebody has a secret vote power, that is somehow compulsive.
2) DethStalker always appears to have an additional vote on himself. This may or may not actually count.
3) The vote by bessie is in fact targeting DethStalker, and the vote on Gopher is a phony.
4) My vote on DethStalker is actually two votes for some reason, probably related to a passive ability from DethStalker.
5) Probably something else entirely.
There are so many things with this post that ping me, I know not where to start. Looking through later content, it seems that points #1-5 have been much discussed, so I see not a need to further pursue this line of thought. I would like to add that I find interesting the carefully placed statement alluding to your aptitude for accurate reads. Thank you for throwing that out there!

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:An interesting point to note is that mpolo explicitly said in this post that there were 9 people not voting, when there were apparently 7 votes + the "nobody" on DethStalker down. I don't know quite what to make here. One thing I will say is that I may be suspicious of anybody who is not voting for SOMEBODY at day end, as it would be good to help clarify certain vote shenanigans, though I guess town!double voters etc might not want to reveal their hand this early. I definitely don't believe that a general claim/demonstration of all vote-manipulating abilities at this stage is worthwhile.
Hmm. You and Gopher of Pern are very interested in potential voting powers, and are fishing hard for information.

DethStalker wrote:(Im character)
Thou, a noble, hated. Thou? Shall thy?
Are you trying to claim something?

BoomFrog posts a most impressive reads list. He manages communicate in just a few words a subtle but precise assessment of every player in the game. I’m quite amused by his read of me. :)

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:A confirmed townie is one of the most likely players to get killed by a night kill, and that would fulfil the lyncher win condition from the last Shakespeare game. Lyncher!SDK might believe that it is going to be almost impossible to get a lynch on bessie (what with her having a really townie meta), so is hoping scum will do his work for them.
Thank you for again pointing this out! There’s a chance that scum somehow missed LaserGuy’s earlier helpful post! Coordination will be so much easier at night, won’t it?

DethStalker wrote:Thou, shall I say? Questions? Thy, hated, is one of all. Hated, hated I say!
I do not understand what you are attempting to communicate. Is hated an aspect of your role? If it is, it does not seem to me very townie.

DethStalker wrote:
Sabrar wrote:@DethStalker: I apologize but I'm unable to decipher your meaning. Please speak in plain terms so that I may answer your question (if you had any).

Decipher? Thy mean if'nt simple; all thy; a misunderstand.

TDLR;
(That would be Krul [VGF])
Ok, done with you. If you’re not going to try, so be it. You are wasting the very precious and limited time of the kind people who have attempted to welcome you to the forum. This one's for you.

This is the excellent foppery of the world, that, when we are sick in fortune, often the surfeit of our own behaviour, we make guilty of our disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars; as if we were villains on necessity; fools by heavenly compulsion; knaves, thieves, and treachers by spherical pre-dominance; drunkards, liars, and adulterers by an enforc'd obedience of planetary influence; and all that we are evil in, by a divine thrusting on.

Ah, this time, the correct soliloquy. And with this I shall make my departure until to-morrow, when I shall return with a proper reads list.

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Sabrar
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Sun May 14, 2017 1:41 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:On a really serious note I'm eagerly awaiting bessie's analysis on DGames, LaserGuy, SDK, YOLOSWAG and Znirk.
Why me? Why these five? And why so serious?
Reasons already guessed by LaserGuy here (third point).

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun May 14, 2017 4:50 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Seems like the esteemed gentleman with the many names has not learned to interpret my carefully chosen words in their entirety, rather has taken lessons in diverting attention away from themselves. I said I would consider an action a long time away in the future and invited others to share their opinion before committing myself to anything rash. You chose to interpret this as me pushing an agenda. This is not the townie jimbob that I'm used to meet.
Your "carefully chosen" words should be more carefully chosen and clearer then. This is your original post:
Sabrar wrote:I'll be heartily considering to lynch DethStalker on D2 for balance reasons if daystart votals will once more contain an additional vote on him, as he's a complete liability in LYLO situations if Town, therefore I do not think that is the case. OTOH don't think that scum would be outed so easily as well, so thoughts welcome on this matter.
You explicitly state that you'll be "heartily considering" lynching DethStalker D2 "for balance reasons". You do admittedly go on to say "he's a complete liability in LYLO situations if Town, therefore I do not think that is the case", implying to me at least that you do not think that he is town (although your next statement goes on to suggesting he's not scum either), but the initial phrase implies to me that you want to lynch him regardless of scumminess, to make sure he's not around at LYLO and making it unbalanced in favour of scum. That whole sentence does not read well, which is why it's unclear what your intentions are, and hence my confusion and demand for clarity.

The fact that you respond with an accusation at me rather than simply explaining what you mean is worth noting.

Responding to your earlier post on my vote comments:
Sabrar wrote:- Votals were included with D1 start-post, no indication that there were any N0 actions. DethStalker appeared with 1 vote with no player listed as having voted for them. bessie had a vote on Gopher of Pern.
- There are no hidden aspects to roles, so if you have to 'guess at one of the following' then it is clearly not related to your ability so you can't be 'double-voter under special circumstances', making your later defense have no merit.
- So now we can already exclude 4 because neither part makes sense.
- 3 is ridiculous (or needs bastardry in the game) as there can be no 'phony' votes unless the official votals do not show the correct situation. However mpolo denied this in his reply to my inquiry earlier.
- 1 is possible but requires a role that a) compulsively votes at the start of the day and b) is not revealed with probably c) can't vote normally. I find it this too much to believe, I think individual vote-related powers/restrictions would modify at most 1 aspect of the process and not 2/3.

So now we see that you produced a list that at a simple glance can be reduced to a single element (2 if you include 'everything else') and that makes your 'experiment' of voting DethStalker even more interesting as in hindsight it provided the platform upon which you could theorize about implausible scenarios.
Your second point is invalid. I never said I didn't know about any vote-manipulation powers I might have (double-vote or otherwise), but I don't know anything about DethStalker beyond their character name, hence why it's only a guess as to a possible cause, as a theoretical double-vote I have would alone not explain the situation. Regarding your point about the no phony votes, I'll admit to not grasping the implications of mpolo's comment about the final votals, but now that I think I do, I agree that 3 is almost certainly not the case. Anyway, it's all much of a muchness. I wanted to understand the game mechanics better, so used my vote to that effect, similar to how I switched my vote to Gopher and speculated a bit to see what people had to say. I'll be placing a serious vote shortly following the completion of my re-read.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Sun May 14, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

@DethStalker, jimbobmacdoodle is defending you. What is your opinion of jimbobmacdoodle? Do you think he is town?

Please answer in plain English, with no role playing and no Shakespeare quotes. I want no ambiguity your response.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Sun May 14, 2017 8:05 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:but the initial phrase implies to me that you want to lynch him regardless of scumminess
Again, if this is what my phrase 'implies' to you then you do not consider my argument as a whole and once more fail to include the last part where I ask specifically for the opinion of others.
But I already explained all this to plytho as well and it seems you haven't taken that into account either.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Your second point is invalid. I never said I didn't know about any vote-manipulation powers I might have
Strawman, I didn't say that you did. But your 'guess' implies that any such power you may have is not the cause of this anomaly.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun May 14, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

Full re-read, player by player and thoughts on them:
Spoiler:
bessie - asks Gopher to try to make her remove her vote. Greets new players. Hasn't been presented with a compelling reason to move her vote. Suggests GoP should try hunting scum rather than fish. Doesn't like SDK's confirmed town claim on her, and suggests reasons behind it. Thoughts on DethStalker - he is a liability. Wants Madge to post. Thinks jester unlikely. Asks Sabrar about his choice of her to ask to analyse certain players. Confused by SDK's comment re. scummy role. Wonders why LaserGuy and I pointed out SDK's assertion of her being town. Townie meta comment. Gopher is role-fishing. We should be careful with our votes. Suggests that some blood drawn on her would do something. Asks LaserGuy to explain his suspicion of SDK. Promises to move her vote after a better candidate than Gopher presents itself. Wonders why SDK thinks DethStalker is scum. Doesn't like my DethStalker vote thoughts. Finds my comments about my previous game's guessing interesting. Finds Gop and I are fishing hard. Wonders if DethStalker is trying to claim something. BoomFrog's reads list is impressive. Fed up with DethStalker.

BoomFrog - RL issues. Asks GoP about why he wants people to claim vote manipulation. Knowing details of vote manipulation will help scum more than town. Wants DethStalker to give sensible content. Brief ordered reads list. Votes Znirk. LaserGuy's comment is a valid objection. SCum probably don't know about if there are other scum or not. Votes DethStalker for being unhelpful.

DethStalker - Some words, 95% of which I don't understand. The other 5% is his confirmation post.

DGames | Bard - Introduces himself. Jokey response to Yoloswag's vote on him. Bessie confirmation rubs him the wrong way, as do the start-votes. Wants to know proof of bessie's innconcence and asks about number of vote manipulation abilities. Flavour implies there might be two scum factions. Asks dimochka why he is self-voting. Thinks bessie's role would be unfair for scum. Unsure how to respond to dimochka. Agrees with SirG re. disliking Gopher's suggestion about voting abilities. Thinks attention and scrutiny will be focused on bessie because of her ability. Asks SDK why he confirmed bessie as town right out of the gate. Misunderstood voting format. Agrees that SDK's approach is an oddity. Likes current content. Thinks it's too early to jump to conclusions about DethStalker's alignment. Agrees with plytho and I re. Sabrar's motion to kill of DethStalker on policy.

dimochka - Votes himself - "everybody should be talking about me". Seems we are dealing with more than one adversary. Plans to question the rest of us.

freezeblade - Thinks initial votes are examples of mandatory voting. Thinks dimochka might have got one of his submitted traits. Thinks bessie vote is mandatory and vote on DethStalker is either mandatory or might simply be that DethStalker always has a vote on them.

Gopher of Pern - Demands bessie to remove the day start vote. Votes SDK for revealing a known townie early (or faking to do so). Two scum factions may be in play. Thinks people with vote-manipulation abilities should claim - could help scum, but could help town more (scum go after those with vote powers and miss other power roles). Continues to reiterate this point. Thinks scum + SK more likely. Prefers 10/4/1/1 or 9/4/1/1/1. Asks LaserGuy about his co-aligned scum theory. Agrees that automatic vote on DethStalker most likely. Asks why BoomFrog put himself as scummy.

#HBC | Yoloswag - Votes Bard. Thinks he might have played with him before, and asks DethStalker for their experience. Joke(?) response to Sabrar's first post and random vote on freezeblade. Asks if scum day chat is a rarity. Probably two scum teams due to flavour and mpolo's choice of language. Sees no reason for kills to operate differently at the moment. Bessie being confirmed town is cool. Has no info re. bessie. SDK should say so if he is doing early game sheanigans. Explains comments in response to Sabrar. Votes DethStalker. Explains in response to me why he thought a second mafia team is likely. Hates when townies allude to being scum. Asks DethStalker a question.

LaserGuy - Points out day-start votes, asking for comment. Dislikes SDK's confirmation of bessie. Sabrar was probably referencing bessie and her analysis of confirmation posts. All votes are serious. Votes SDK. Responds to plytho re. day start votes, in a rather verbose way. Thinks uncontrolled votes are anti-town. Speculates on setup, including two scum teams. Pleased Gopher shares suspicion of SDK. Speculates on nature of scum teams. Madge is town? Unvotes Znirk (despite never having a vote on him...). Discusses my ideas for the DethStalker votes. Doesn't follow my line of reasoning re. lyncher!SDK. Says opening flavour plus other experienced players is his reason for believing two-scum team scenario. Thinks random vote manipulation is injurious to town. Explains the two scum team setup even further. 4/3/3 is a losing position for town.

Madge - SDK makes a good point about his role PM, and the scumminess of it. Her character is not the greatest.

plytho - SDK's assumption that Sabrar had the bessie=town confirmation as well was weird. Clarifies a couple of points to other players. Doesn't get what LaserGuy meant with regards to "nefarious forces" with reference to the day start votes. Asks freezeblade for clarity on his thoughts on the day start votes. Reads list to follow on Monday. Thinks likely DethStalker has vote due to him always having an additional vote. Thinks some points are out "there". Likes my point re. Sabrar and his suggestion of lynching DethStalker. The extra vote should only lead us to lynching DethStalker if he otherwise looks scummy.

Sabrar - Joke-votes freezeblade, along with other joke comments. Doesn't have bessie confirmed as town, and interested in SDK's reaction. Switches vote to Yoloswag. Asks Yoloswag about his comments re. bessie. Responds to DGames, re. votals, two scum factions. Asks him why he thinks bessie's ability is unfair to scum, and wants more explanation from Yoloswag. Asks bessie to switch her vote. Ordered reads list. Accepts that he was reading Yoloswag's comments wrong. Terse responses to SDK. Asks SDK why he decided to reveal confirmed town!bessie so early. Asks Yoloswag why Yolo assumed Sabrar thought bessie was town. Leading question to LaserGuy re. scum team sizes. Follows up further on this. Upset by bessie's refusal to move her vote. Jumps on the wagon of disliking my 5 suggestions for the DethStalker vote. Asks BoomFrog if he intends to claim indie. Bessie did not react to SDK's reveal. Aggressive question on Yoloswag. Analyses my list of DethStalker vote reasons and provides a conclusion. Considering lynching DethStalker D2 due to additional vote on him, and asks for thoughts. Pondering bessie's addressing of specific topics. SirGabriel takes a dive to the scummy side. Switches vote to me for misinterpreting his comments. Discusses the DethStalker additional vote situation. Promises to reveal suspicion of SirGabriel in due time. Asks DethStalker to speak in plain terms.

SDK - claims bessie is town, and assumes Sabrar is as well. Received a scummy town role PM, but not a miller. Follows Sabrar onto freezeblade. bessie is good at acting town when scum. Did not believe Sabrar had the same confirmation as him, but said it for interest's sake. Asks Sabrar for what he sees in his own reaction, and related questions. Doubles-down on proof of bessie's innocence. Asks Bard why he thought people were calling bessie town based on day-start votes. Would like more from dimochka. Asks Madge to elaborate re. his PM. Asks Gopher what he expects from his question, re. vote manipulations, and cannot see why a townie would want to reveal this info. Responds to Sabrar's terse responses. Might have two teams, or an SK and a mafia team. Refuses to reveal reasons behind his early claim, but suggests that he will later (or it will be clear after he dies). Thinks DethStalker might be scum.

SirGabriel - joke(?) votes Sabrar over day chat. Thinks Gopher's vote manipulation claim idea is terrible, because it would tell scum who is most dangerous. Knew Sabrar was joking. Comments on Yolo's memory of two mafia teams re. aliens in Smalltown. DethStalker's lack of content and SDK's claim of knowing bessie is town stand out. The latter is because he can't think of any reason within mpolo's rules that SDK could have this knowledge without being mason. Certain that SDK is lying and votes him. Also a couple of weird comments, that I originally read as breadcrumbs, but thinking about it are probably just role-playing aspects.

Znirk - One post, with a reads list. Has reasons for holding dimochka as town, promised to explain later. Suggests scum!LaserGuy is trying to communicate that his scum-buddies should try to target town. Sees a reason for why a townie may ask the "any vanillas" question that scum aren't yet aware of. Has SirGabriel, SDK, LaserGuy as his main suspects. Mistakes Madge for bessie.
bessie: Less content than normal from her, but she has got real-life reasons. Nothing major stood out to me as obviously scummy - it all seems fairly typical bessie so far (with the exception that she hasn't started massively tunnelling on somebody yet :P ). Moderately townie, partially influenced by SDK's claim.
bessie wrote:@DethStalker, jimbobmacdoodle is defending you. What is your opinion of jimbobmacdoodle? Do you think he is town?
I'm defending DethStalker?

BoomFrog: Not much content yet either. I'm less impressed by his reads list than bessie appears to be, since he doesn't actually really explain his scummy reads with any detail. He also didn't answer my question when I asked him to about his read on me, although I'm tentatively willing to put both these points down to his lack of time currently. Slightly townie, but needs more content and responses.

@BoomFrog, please could you further explain the scummy reads you have of LaserGuy, myself and Znirk, with a little more detail.

DethStalker: I'm agreeing with everybody else here on DethStalker. He is being completely unhelpful, and I assume deliberately so. I don't understand why anybody would do this, unless they're a jester, especially as it's been made clear to him that it is unnecessary and unwanted. There's newbieness and then there's this madness. I'm not sure if scummy is the right word to describe it, but I'm certainly not opposed to his lynch as things stand.

@DethStalker, please drop the excessive role-playing and speak in plain English prose. It is making it impossible for anybody to understand what you are saying. Please also explain your lack of useful content up to now and what you were trying to achieve with it, and go back and answer the questions people have asked you.

DGames | Bard: A bit active-lurky, in that he hasn't produced any original content really to speak of, but has said quite a lot. His early comments seem to be mostly asking for reasons behind joke votes, and he commented a bit on SDK's claim on bessie. Most of the rest of what he's said has been simply agreeing with others comments. Scummy.

dimochka: lurking badly - his last post was 9.26pm UTC on Thursday. He has made two posts, and they contain basically nothing about from some role-playing. Scummy, due to lurkiness.

freezeblade: also produced very little content, although he has stated this would be the case over the weekend. His only real comments so far have been on the day start votes, and dimochka's role-playing. Slightly scummy, pending further content.

Gopher of Pern: At this point, in my re-read, I'm beginning to wonder who actually does have content? Gopher has more posts than the previous two, but they are mostly focused on the same topic (vote manipulation and later a bit of setup speculation), and made no real attempt to scum hunt from what I can tell in the majority of his posts. Scummy.

#HBC | Yoloswag: Mostly been focused on SDK's "confirmation" of bessie being town and responses to a couple of people. Not actually posted any thoughts on who he finds scummy apart from his vote. I don't get a scummy vibe here, but still. Slightly scummy, pending further content.

@Yoloswag - who do you think is scum, and why?

LaserGuy: Spends most of his time talking about the setup and vote abilities, with no opinions on individual players so far, apart from his comment about SDK and his early claim of town!bessie. I'm really confused by his "Unvote Znirk" when he was voting for SDK at the time, but I assume he meant "Vote Znirk", in which case, I want to know why he meant that, given that his only comment was on Znirk's (presumed) mistake saying that SDK said that Madge is town, which was fairly clearly meant to be about bessie. As stated previously, I found his question asking me if I had reason to believe other than a two-scum team to be role-fishing. If I had information to share that I thought would be valuable to share at this point, I'd have shared it. Scummy, and this time not because of lack of posts.

Madge: I'm not sure if it's possible, but she has even less content than DethStalker (only one post, 11.36pm UTC, Thursday). I really can't even put a label on her for the amount she's got.

plytho: General feeling on plytho is that he feels the same as his last couple of games where he was town, although I'm slightly uncomfortable with the fact that he is largely just agreeing with other people's comments. Slightly town, but needs a reads list (which he has promised) or at least some opinions on other players.

Sabrar: I'm really trying hard to not let Sabrar's reactions to my content and the subsequent vote lead me to an OMGUS feel, but it's quite hard. Much of his early content is fairly typical Sabrar, but it's taken a steep decline in quality in his last few posts. For example, he discards some of my speculation re. the DethStalker out-of-hand, and uses that as a basis for suspicion on me, when his reasoning for discarding them doesn't really stand up from my point of view. He makes some poorly written statement about lynching DethStalker and then doesn't like it when I misinterpret them. His ongoing discussion of the "lynch DethStalker because of their potential negative trait" seems like a really weird thing to be discussing as well. A part of me is thinking that it's an attempt by scum!Sabrar to lay seeds in people's minds that we should lynch DethStalker because of that trait, although I hope that isn't what he is suggesting - I particularly don't like how usually logical Sabrar is looking at the whole situation from only one angle, namely "town DethStalker is a liability to Town" and doesn't appear to consider that "scum DethStalker is a liability to Scum". Finally, his "I'm not saying what I see that is scummy in SirG at this point" really doesn't sound good. Why refuse to give this sort of information?

Further back, away from his points relating to me, he has been very aggressive in tone to other players: "I dared to presume..." directed at SDK (who is known for doing this all the time), the leading question "don't you think a ..." directed at LaserGuy and his "do you always vote without explanation or just when you're SK?" directed at Yoloswag.

@Sabrar - why are you being so aggressive?

I'd really appreciate it if other people could review these points and correct me if I'm being unreasonable (I might well be letting the OMGUS get to me, which I have a tendency to do), because the way I see it, I'm calling Sabrar scum.

SDK: hasn't really come out of the blocks in the way I'm used to seeing SDK (in that he hasn't hounded anyone in particular), but his interaction with Sabrar seems close to typical, at least from SDK's side. He is clearly willing to interact with multiple players, and although I don't understand his early claim of town!bessie, I'm tentatively willing to accept that he might have a genuine reason that will become clear later. His assertion that DethStalker is scum needs backing up, and he has now gone AWOL so far this weekend. I'm reading him as typical town!SDK for now.

SirGabriel: quiet generally, but not as quiet as some. His point of view on SDK is different to most people's, although I disagree with it (I could think of several roles that would not need much, if any, adjusting to know that bessie is town, and have a reason to claim it). I don't think scum!SirGabriel would go out of his way to suggest this though, so I'm putting SirG as moderately town.

Znirk: whilst I like that he took the time to give some reads in his one and only post, I don't particularly like them, nor do I like that he has only made the one post. In particular, his suggestion that LaserGuy is trying to direct his team onto lynching town rather than another scum team seems weird. I don't get how he could jump to that conclusion, but in lieu of any further explanation from him, I'm assuming that's the reason behind his vote. I'm willing to put the Madge/bessie mix-up as an accidental mistake, but if Znirk flips scum, I'll be scrutinising Madge something chronic. In the meantime, I'm reading him as scum as well.

@Znirk - please could you explain your vote on LaserGuy further and in particular what you thought scum!LaserGuy would be hoping to achieve with his apparent attempt at chatting in plain sight.

Yes, I realise that my list has a lot of scum. Here's my ordered list, where I'm deliberately highlighting the "lurker scum" reads as opposed to the scum reads based on content:

Town
bessie
SDK
SirGabriel
plytho
BoomFrog
Madge
--- lurker scum/very low content ---
Yoloswag
freezeblade
DethStalker
dimochka
--- end of lurkers ---
DGames | Bard
Gopher of Pern
Sabrar
LaserGuy
Znirk (also lurker, but scum because of what he has posted)
Scum

Unvote
Vote Znirk

Requesting modprods on dimochka and Madge

Ninja'ed by Sabrar. Response to follow.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Sun May 14, 2017 8:18 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm defending DethStalker?
Oh yes.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why refuse to give this sort of information?
Because I want to see SDK's reaction and SirGabriel's re-reaction first and me giving away my tell would definitely influence that.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:why are you being so aggressive?
Because I find it liberating being Town after two suspenseful games as scum.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Sun May 14, 2017 8:18 pm UTC

Modprods sent.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sun May 14, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

I'm V/LA til Tuesday aftednoon y'all. I might be able to get in earlier but no promises.

Dethstalker can still go. I also feel like there's a scum between GoP/Laser.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Sun May 14, 2017 8:31 pm UTC

EBWOP because I almost missed this.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I particularly don't like how usually logical Sabrar is looking at the whole situation from only one angle, namely "town DethStalker is a liability to Town" and doesn't appear to consider that "scum DethStalker is a liability to Scum".
In that case lynching him would be an excellent idea, n'est-ce pas?

@YOLOSWAG: again, some explanation would be nice.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Sun May 14, 2017 8:39 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I could think of several roles that would not need much, if any, adjusting to know that bessie is town, and have a reason to claim it

Would you mind listing some of them? Because off the top of my head I can't think of any.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun May 14, 2017 9:15 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:but the initial phrase implies to me that you want to lynch him regardless of scumminess
Again, if this is what my phrase 'implies' to you then you do not consider my argument as a whole and once more fail to include the last part where I ask specifically for the opinion of others.
But I already explained all this to plytho as well and it seems you haven't taken that into account either.
That's because your argument, as a whole or otherwise, doesn't make sense in the way it's worded in that original post, which was the point I was trying to make in my previous post. Anyway, asking for other people's opinions on a bad strategy doesn't make it a less bad strategy or your original statement any easier to understand. In fact, I'd argue that scum would be just as likely to ask for thoughts as town would be, when they deliberately propose a slightly dodgy strategy. What you subsequently said to plytho is irrelevant to the argument - my initial response to your original proposal was prior to any response you made to plytho, and my recent follow up post was made in light of your response to it. In other words, we are arguing about the original post and response, and whether I'm justified in my original reaction, which appears to be what you don't like.
Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Your second point is invalid. I never said I didn't know about any vote-manipulation powers I might have
Strawman, I didn't say that you did. But your 'guess' implies that any such power you may have is not the cause of this anomaly.
Looks like I might have misinterpreted your point again then, because I took it to mean that you were discounting the case as being because I thought I might have hidden vote-related powers. Anyway, even given the fact that I know my abilities, and assuming that I have a related one, I still might not be able to explain the full picture, so "guess" is still the right word.

All the ninjas.
Sabrar wrote:In that case lynching him would be an excellent idea, n'est-ce pas?
Now you're using a straw man - we don't know which case we're in at this point. You seem to suggest that we should lynch him, just to make sure that we don't have a liability in our team by LYLO, whereas it could be argued that we shouldn't lynch him because he could be a liability to the opposite team at that point and delay effective LYLO.

@SirGabriel - Bodyguard who makes their target permanently immune to night kills as long as he is alive is the most obvious one. Claiming it means that if he dies at night (as town!SDK is prone to do early on), bessie is confirmed town to the rest of us, whilst if scum go for the confirmed-townie, their kill will fail. One-way lover, who knows their target's alignment, is another. In this case, SDK is trying to scare scum away from her (obvious doctor/watcher target for instance).
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Sun May 14, 2017 9:31 pm UTC

Quick question for LaserGuy.
Re this post:
LaserGuy wrote:
Znirk wrote:I think we're all agreed Day One is hard,
Yet what I hear in the debate thus far
Hath led me to suspect of Gabriel
And Laser Guy, and to a lesser point,
I wonder at what Master SDK
Is up to when he shouts that Madge is town.

vote: Laserguy


Madge is town? How curious.

Unvote Znirk
What were you trying to do here? You were voting for SDK.

The next votals post has the votals correct if LaserGuy’s unvote was counted as an unvote SDK.
mpolo wrote:Votals:
DethStalker (2): #HBC | YOLOSWAG
Gopher of Pern (2): bessie, jimbobmacdoodle
dimochka (1): dimochka
SDK (2): Gopher of Pern, SirGabriel
freezeblade (1): SDK
#HBC | YOLOSWAG (1): Sabrar
LaserGuy (1): Znirk
Znirk (1): BoomFrog

Not voting: freezeblade, Madge, plytho, DethStalker, DGames | Bard, LaserGuy

I hope that's right…


mpolo, please confirm the votals are correct.

Pre post edit: Skimming jimbobmacdoodle’s long post, he noticed this too.

More later, I want to get this post up so mpolo sees it.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DethStalker » Sun May 14, 2017 10:33 pm UTC

bessie wrote:@DethStalker, jimbobmacdoodle is defending you. What is your opinion of jimbobmacdoodle? Do you think he is town?

Please answer in plain English, with no role playing and no Shakespeare quotes. I want no ambiguity your response.

Plain English: I can scumread. I just can't. Because when I scumread and get it right, I usually fail to scumread others.
I mean IDK. And also people I'm just a small misunderstood newb at this.


RPing: Thou, scumread? To scumtell; thee, thy talent is disastrous; to see; good sirs, @Jimbobmacdoodle (and others), thee, simply a noble, doesn't have talent for such. Shall the sky be the ground; and shall he ground be the sky, is one, that I may cause.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Sun May 14, 2017 10:59 pm UTC

@DethStalker

We as a group are very welcoming to new players. Everyone here is willing to help you. If you have a general Mafia gameplay question, or a question as to the forum rules, you may ask us in this thread, and someone will answer it truthfully.

If you have a specific question about this game or your role, please send a private message with your question to mpolo.

Although we all want to help you and hope you enjoy the game, your newbie status does not automatically give you immunity to the lynch. I strongly recommend you do the following.

1. Do not roleplay. It is just for fun and not required.
2. Do not try to post in the style of Shakespeare, or use Shakespeare quotes.
3. Answer questions directed at you.

If you are confused and don’t know where to begin, you may start by answering the question I asked you, which you quoted and to which you responded, but did not answer. Then you should read through the thread and answer the questions others have asked you.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 15, 2017 12:22 am UTC

Re: Dethstalker, I doubt that they are scum. They seem like newbie town. While Sabrar's point is true, that they are a liability in the late game, I do not think that justifies an early lynching, especially over other, scummier, candidates. I think we have more to go on than that. But you should really make yourself clearer to understand. I have no idea what you said, and that's in the plain english version.

Jimbob posts his reads list. Lo and behold, everyone is scum! Well, not everyone, but a good half of the players are scum. I love how you say people have made no attempt to scumhunt, when you had not up until that post. What does scumhunting even mean early in day 1? Methinks you are looking for excuses for people to be scummy.

bessie, I did not respond, because I saw no need to. You voted for me before I even participated in the thread, before the game started. I'm assuming it's a restriction of yours, and you either have to vote for me, or you have to vote for someone, and you have yet to find someone you want to vote for. Either way, I don't see you seeing me as scummy (especially as you have mentioned no reasons for it), so I'll just let it be for now.

YOLO is being very similar to last game. Yes, you don't always have to give reasons, but if you never, we'll think you're just calling people scummy blind and not caring who gets lynched (i.e. SK)

Sabrar, I'm feeling good about. I do believe we are on the same team (for once). I do agree with them for the most part. I gotta keep an eye on my own bias though.

SirGabriel, there is also a princess role I think, who is simply a confirmed townie to everyone. Can easily be modified to only being confirmed to one or a few people. Hell, SDK could be pulling a double bluff, and he knows bessie is town, because they themselves are scum.

Not getting a good feeling for Boomfrog jumping on dethstalker.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Mon May 15, 2017 1:10 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:On a really serious note I'm eagerly awaiting bessie's analysis on DGames, LaserGuy, SDK, YOLOSWAG and Znirk.
Why me? Why these five? And why so serious?
Reasons already guessed by LaserGuy here (third point).
Sorry, missed that. For you, bessie's confirmation post analysis:

Znirk – Acceptable confirmation post, no warning bells.
SDK - His confirmation post is in the style of Edgar’s first soliloquy, where Edgar disguises himself as the madman Tom. A+ effort.
YOLOSWAG – Confirmation post was a single word, but later posted pre game content by needling plytho. Tsk tsk. :)
LaserGuy – Extended a welcome to the two new players. Suspicious for early buddying. Comprenez-vous?
DGames Bard – Responded to LaserGuy. New to the forum, so no information can be gleaned from this.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:bessie: Less content than normal from her, but she has got real-life reasons. Nothing major stood out to me as obviously scummy - it all seems fairly typical bessie so far (with the exception that she hasn't started massively tunnelling on somebody yet :P ). Moderately townie, partially influenced by SDK's claim.
bessie wrote:@DethStalker, jimbobmacdoodle is defending you. What is your opinion of jimbobmacdoodle? Do you think he is town?
I'm defending DethStalker?
Yes. And it was quite astute of you to figure out that your response, not DethStalker’s, was my primary goal in asking this question. Thank you for complying!

Gopher of Pern wrote:Re: Dethstalker, I doubt that they are scum. They seem like newbie town. While Sabrar's point is true, that they are a liability in the late game, I do not think that justifies an early lynching, especially over other, scummier, candidates. I think we have more to go on than that. But you should really make yourself clearer to understand. I have no idea what you said, and that's in the plain english version.
Bonus! Gopher of Pern defended DethStalker too! I’ll ask DethStalker for his reaction after he answers my previous question.

Gopher of Pern, would you perchance be so kind as to share with your fellow cast members a list of said scummier candidates?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 15, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Off the top of my head, jimbob, YOLO, and Boomfrog come to mind. Perhaps SDK as well.

I haven't got a good enough read on the others yet to come to a decision.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Madge » Mon May 15, 2017 3:01 am UTC

Oh my goodness guys I hope I didn't disappoint you by vanishing for a bit there! I know I don't have many lines but I'm really, really glad that you want me to stick around. I'm doing my best, I promise!! I hope it's OK but I'm sort of going through as I read, and I'm at work filing emails as they get into my inbox, so I might be a little bit off the track and things might be a little bit slipshod.

The first rehearsal (D1) is a tricky one, we're still trying to find our feet, don't all know our lines, etc (don't worry - I've been practicing mine with great aplomb - all 38 of them! You can count on me!). I'm hoping as the plot becomes clearer we'll be able to make some progress. I trust many of you are better actors than I.

I know it's not really my place, so I hope you all forgive me for speaking ill of others, but I feel like if you want my opinion I'd best do it, if it pleases you.

The vote manipulation is going to be a fun mechanic to contend with. At the moment scum is better served by knowing about it, so I'm in agreement that we should keep any vote powers secret until they become necessary to reveal for some reason. I promise that if anything to do with my role affects the vote, I will own up to it. But best not to let scum anticipate anything I may or may not be able to do.

I'm not going to try to guess the causes of the vote powers. At the moment they're kind of irrelevant because we have such large numbers of people voting (at least in theory). Let a few people die and we'll see what vote powers (if any) exist, so we can have a feel for how common they are and how far reaching they are. After all, a double voter is very different from a "your vote adds an extra 50% to the number of people voting for your target" power.

Not going to speculate on the number of kills until anyone dies. It doesn't help us now. See if anyone paints themselves into a corner and then have at 'em. The kills will shake out in the end.

SDK has bessie as confirmed town. I wouldn't put it past SDK to do some sort of crazy antic like that as scum, so if they live suspiciously long we might want to consider breaking them up. Or, you know, get a cop or someone to check them out. That Bessie doesn't seem to agree with it is a bit funny too.

I agree that Dethstalker looks like a possible timewaster. Might be as good a place to put a lynch down as any. I'm personally suspecting the mystery vote is not related to dethstalker, but is a vote that is cast by someone's power. So if we lynch dethstalker there'll be someone else with a phantom vote! I hope it won't be me :( :( I like being here with you guys even if I only have a small part to play.

(OK, after reading more: Dethstalker is crossing the line from a bit scatterbrained to seemingly malicious. I'm happy to vote him to get him out of our hair, but I'd probably rather we get him replaced so someone can play his likely town [we are all likely town due to probability] role PROPERLY)

SirGabriel posts saying no standard role would have SDK knowing Bessie as town. Ehh, there's something like neighbour that does. Innocent child, too. So I'm good with that. And a confirmed townie via PM only is really not a major change. Agree with Sabrar that SirG is scummy for that post.

Oh, speaking of changes to role PMs - my role PM makes it pretty clear that there are supernatural and non-supernatural (people, powers, or kills: one of those three gets categorised as such, probably) in this game. I think it's most likely that people are supernatural or not. I get the feeling that kills can be done by supernaturals or done by non-supernaturals. I suppose we'll see.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Mon May 15, 2017 6:38 am UTC

bessie wrote:
mpolo, please confirm the votals are correct.



LaserGuy unvoted Znirk. He was no longer voting for SDK at the moment of the unvote.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 6:56 am UTC

mpolo wrote:LaserGuy unvoted Znirk. He was no longer voting for SDK at the moment of the unvote.

I'm not 100% sure if I understand what's happening here, please clarify.
Did LaserGuy have a valid vote on Znirk right before his unvote?
Did LaserGuy have a valid vote on SDK right before his unvote?
Thank you!

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 7:03 am UTC

DethStalker wrote:Because when I scumread and get it right, I usually fail to scumread others.
I mean IDK. And also people I'm just a small misunderstood newb at this.
The first sentence suggests experience. The second part states newbness. Just to be clear, how many Mafia games have you played so far? Any experience being scum?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Mon May 15, 2017 7:11 am UTC

bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Second, I find SDK's assertion of bessie to be town to be most alarming, as it will require some heroic effort to keep her alive if this claim is true.


I’m wondering why you felt the need to point this out. Perchance you did want to ensure your scum partners didn’t miss it? Êtes-vous un roi ou un méchant?


SDK's claim is arguably the most significant content that has been posted in all of D1. Certainly, at the time of my initial post, it was by far the most interesting bit of content that had been posted thus far. How could I not comment on it? When we are starved for content, I am happy to investigate whatever presents itself as most appetizing. For the latter, I do have a lovely 1512 vintage from the Loire that I'd be happy to share, but instead perhaps I'll simply suggest that you judge by my content and my actions.

bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I am pleased that Gopher shares my suspicion of the villain SDK. We are kings together and are therefore above reproach, though he is a bit long winded for my liking.


Would you care to elaborate on this suspicion? Because the only thing you had said about SDK up to this point was the piece I quoted above.


I feel that there is virtually no circumstance under which Town!SDK would make such a statement about a confirmed townie at this point in the game. Were you in danger of the lynch, I can imagine him putting such a claim forward, but at this point in time, it only benefits scum to know that there is a confirmed townie in the game, and who that person is--doubly so if there are two scum teams in opposition to each other. This essentially, in my mind, puts SDK in the pool of scum/anti-town indies, or perhaps, at very best, a townie with an extremely scummy wincon, as he seemed to be suggesting. I suppose I must add that there is some non-trivial possibility that SDK simply invented this information, but in many respects I would consider this an even more anti-town play than revealing the truth. In any event, this disclosure does not paint SDK in a good light whatsoever.

For meta reasons as well, I find this statement most troubling. SDK does not reveal information voluntarily, especially in D1, regardless of his alignment. I feel we must assume that his decision to release this information was deliberate and planned, and, as I allude to above, I do not feel that there are many circumstances under which this is a desirable play for town. The fact that he has since been extremely laconic about his reasons for choosing to release this information does not enhance my confidence in the situation. On the whole, I felt entirely justified both in voicing my suspicions of SDK's play, and in placing an initial vote on him. I may return it at a later point, but recent content points me more in other directions at this time.

bessie wrote:What were you trying to do here? You were voting for SDK.

The next votals post has the votals correct if LaserGuy’s unvote was counted as an unvote SDK.


I was voting for Znirk at the time. mpolo has already revealed more information on the matter than I would prefer. Je vais vous l'expliquer plus tard.

Sabrar wrote:I'm not 100% sure if I understand what's happening here, please clarify.
Did LaserGuy have a valid vote on Znirk right before his unvote?
Did LaserGuy have a valid vote on SDK right before his unvote?
Thank you!

I feel it is extremely uncouth to be attempting to use the mod to rolefish.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 7:15 am UTC

@bessie: do you think plytho is also defending DethStalker?

@LaserGuy: mod always has the ability to reply 'No comment'. If you didn't want your ability to be revealed this way you should have just written 'Unvote' instead of specifying who you're unvoting.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 7:24 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:SDK does not reveal information voluntarily, especially in D1, regardless of his alignment.
Did you determine this based only on the recent 2 games SDK participated in or did you read his older games as well?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 7:32 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Now you're using a straw man - we don't know which case we're in at this point. You seem to suggest that we should lynch him, just to make sure that we don't have a liability in our team by LYLO, whereas it could be argued that we shouldn't lynch him because he could be a liability to the opposite team at that point and delay effective LYLO.
Had a reply written out, crossed out because it seemed ridiculous that you were suggesting this. Are you saying that we shouldn't lynch DethStalker because he can be scum and a liability for them? How is not lynching possible scum ever a good idea? Wouldn't it also delay LYLO?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon May 15, 2017 8:17 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Now you're using a straw man - we don't know which case we're in at this point. You seem to suggest that we should lynch him, just to make sure that we don't have a liability in our team by LYLO, whereas it could be argued that we shouldn't lynch him because he could be a liability to the opposite team at that point and delay effective LYLO.
Had a reply written out, crossed out because it seemed ridiculous that you were suggesting this. Are you saying that we shouldn't lynch DethStalker because he can be scum and a liability for them? How is not lynching possible scum ever a good idea? Wouldn't it also delay LYLO?
We are ALL potential scum (possible exception is bessie, and even that isn't confirmed at this point to anyone apart from SDK, apparently). If we have a choice between two equally-scummy candidates, say DethStalker and Gojoe (deliberately picking non-player for example purposes here), then the argument that we should lynch DethStalker because they could be a liability to town works in exactly the same way for arguing that we shouldn't lynch DethStalker at that point (and lynch Gojoe instead), because they could be a liability to scum. Of course, if DethStalker remains scummy, we should lynch them at a later point, assuming that nobody else is equally scummy. Note: I am not arguing that we shouldn't lynch DethStalker. I'm arguing that we shouldn't lynch them purely because of their apparent ability. If they are the scummiest player aside from the ability, they should be lynched, no doubt about it. Whether or not you consider the ability itself scummy is a different issue.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 8:40 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:then the argument that we should lynch DethStalker because they could be a liability to town works in exactly the same way for arguing that we shouldn't lynch DethStalker at that point (and lynch Gojoe instead), because they could be a liability to scum.
Don't agree because end result is different. Going back to previous example, we have 5-2 with Gojoe and DethStalker being equally scummy. If both of them are Town lynching Gojoe loses the game, lynching DethStalker puts us at LYLO. If both of them are scum then lynching DethStalker puts us at standard 4-1, lynching Gojoe makes it 4-1 with additional vote on DethStalker. At that point lynching DethStalker next would be sensible from our pov as even if wrong we end up in LYLO, another mislynch could make us lose if he's Town.
Summary: from 2 equally scummy players DethStalker is the safer choice because of additional vote.

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jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon May 15, 2017 9:42 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:then the argument that we should lynch DethStalker because they could be a liability to town works in exactly the same way for arguing that we shouldn't lynch DethStalker at that point (and lynch Gojoe instead), because they could be a liability to scum.
Don't agree because end result is different. Going back to previous example, we have 5-2 with Gojoe and DethStalker being equally scummy. If both of them are Town lynching Gojoe loses the game, lynching DethStalker puts us at LYLO. If both of them are scum then lynching DethStalker puts us at standard 4-1, lynching Gojoe makes it 4-1 with additional vote on DethStalker. At that point lynching DethStalker next would be sensible from our pov as even if wrong we end up in LYLO, another mislynch could make us lose if he's Town.
Summary: from 2 equally scummy players DethStalker is the safer choice because of additional vote.
That's fair, I think. I get where you're coming from now. I'm fairly confident that there are cases where it is possible to get to the point where it is better to lynch Gojoe rather than DethStalker, if they are equally scummy, but I'm willing to accept that I might be wrong, as in my brief thinking on it, I couldn't think what they were. Either way, I would suggest that it doesn't need discussing further until the situation arises.
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Sabrar
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 12:46 pm UTC

Updated list while waiting on players in other timezones to come back from the weekend.

TOWN
bessie
freezeblade
Madge
dimochka
plytho
BoomFrog
Gopher of Pern
Bard - neutral line is here
SirGabriel
YOLOSWAG
Znirk
LaserGuy
jimbobmacdoodle
SCUM

Indie: SDK
admittedly can't/won't scumread, liability, might be newbie frozen as scum without daychat: DethStalker

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Sabrar
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 1:04 pm UTC

Could we have official votals please?

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dimochka
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby dimochka » Mon May 15, 2017 2:04 pm UTC

Apologies, I was traveling this weekend. Working on a post now. Should only have one more day of travel (this wednesday).
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

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SirGabriel
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Mon May 15, 2017 2:32 pm UTC

Hopefully I'll have time for an analysis post later today, but for now here's a town-to-scum list based on a quick reread.

TOWN
bessie
Bard
Yoloswag
plytho
jimbob
BoomFrog
LaserGuy
freezeblade
Madge
Znirk
dimochka
Sabrar
Gopher of Pern
DethStalker
SDK
SCUM

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bessie
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Mon May 15, 2017 3:03 pm UTC

I think DethStalker is newbie scum. He was browsing the forum after I made this post and he still didn’t reply. He’s been offered help and made the decision not to even try participating. I wouldn’t object to getting rid of him.

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Second, I find SDK's assertion of bessie to be town to be most alarming, as it will require some heroic effort to keep her alive if this claim is true.


I’m wondering why you felt the need to point this out. Perchance you did want to ensure your scum partners didn’t miss it? Êtes-vous un roi ou un méchant?


SDK's claim is arguably the most significant content that has been posted in all of D1. Certainly, at the time of my initial post, it was by far the most interesting bit of content that had been posted thus far. How could I not comment on it? When we are starved for content, I am happy to investigate whatever presents itself as most appetizing. For the latter, I do have a lovely 1512 vintage from the Loire that I'd be happy to share, but instead perhaps I'll simply suggest that you judge by my content and my actions.
It’s one thing to acknowledge SDK’s claim, what I find suspicious is that you also pointed out that I’m the obvious NK target. Are you trying to communicate something to a possible second scum faction, like hey bro which of us should bump her off?

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:What were you trying to do here? You were voting for SDK.

The next votals post has the votals correct if LaserGuy’s unvote was counted as an unvote SDK.


I was voting for Znirk at the time. mpolo has already revealed more information on the matter than I would prefer. Je vais vous l'expliquer plus tard.
You had no reason to be voting for Znirk, unless you really didn’t like his confirmation post. And I feel I was justified in requesting the mod confirm the votals, because of the “I hope that’s right…” he added at the end.

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: do you think plytho is also defending DethStalker?
No. I think plytho is defending a course of action.

I found out my mother-in-law is leaving a day earlier than I expected :D but that means I will be driving her to the airport tomorrow morning and probably won’t be able to post, and I won’t be home from work at deadline, so my last opportunity to post will be tonight (16ish hours from now). I would like a short extension (maybe 24 hours?) because I feel D1 was not long enough under the circumstances (game started earlier than expected, 5 days too short for a 16 player game, holiday weekend, etc). What does everyone else think?

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SDK
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Mon May 15, 2017 3:26 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Boomfrog, any reason why you put yourself on the scummier side on your own list?

Would thou trust a man who proclaims himself an honest man? Tis but a jest, don't take it too seriously.

I am honest. No joke.

SirGabriel wrote:... it wouldn't explain why he would be unsurprised at others having a similar confirmation of bessie's towniness.

As I said earlier, this was not true. I did not believe Sabrar had the same confirmation. Everything else I've posted has been fact though.

I missed that mpolo said that our roles are variations on standard, but that's bollocks anyway. You need only look to the votals at Day start to see the truth revealed.

I will say this, if it puts your mind at ease: My role PM does not explicitly state that bessie is town. My role interacts with bessie in a way that points to her being town as very likely.

DGames | Bard wrote:Although, I am curious, now that I think about it. Why did you confirm Bessie as town via role pm right out the gate? While I understand that we all have different approaches for different reasons, you have painted a bigger target on Bessie's head going into this coming night phase (confirmed town via your role pm and has a vote ability!)

Normally that sort of thing is best left alone, I agree. The particular circumstances surrounding my attachment to bessie makes revealing it early better. I think. I don't regret it yet, at least. If bessie dies tonight, it will be me to blame, but it's still just one townie among many. Confirmed or not, this is for the best.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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Sabrar
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 4:07 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I would like a short extension (maybe 24 hours?) because I feel D1 was not long enough under the circumstances (game started earlier than expected, 5 days too short for a 16 player game, holiday weekend, etc). What does everyone else think?

Seconded.

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SDK
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Mon May 15, 2017 4:09 pm UTC

Bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:I think DethStalker might be scum, by the way.
Will you thus enlighten us with your reasons, or was this in your role PM too?

I don't like the way he's writing. He's being intentionally unhelpful, which is not necessarily indicative of alignment, but I got the feeling he was doing it for fear, not for fun. His latest posts, especially the one with a random reference to a random video game (Krul from Vainglory?) have me doubting that thought a bit now. His most recent post seems to indicate that he wants to play, but doesn't want to play in case he misses scum? I have no idea.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:I also feel like there's a scum between GoP/Laser.

If there is, it's probably Laser. I'm pretty sure GoP is town and Laser tickles me a bit.

bessie wrote:SDK - His confirmation post is in the style of Edgar’s first soliloquy, where Edgar disguises himself as the madman Tom. A+ effort.

:mrgreen:

LaserGuy wrote:For meta reasons as well, I find this statement most troubling. SDK does not reveal information voluntarily, especially in D1, regardless of his alignment. I feel we must assume that his decision to release this information was deliberate and planned, and, as I allude to above, I do not feel that there are many circumstances under which this is a desirable play for town. The fact that he has since been extremely laconic about his reasons for choosing to release this information does not enhance my confidence in the situation. On the whole, I felt entirely justified both in voicing my suspicions of SDK's play, and in placing an initial vote on him. I may return it at a later point, but recent content points me more in other directions at this time.

I have played but one game with you, my lord, in which both of us were villains. Where do you get the impression that I don't share Day 1? I believe that I am usually more open about my intentions and abilities than most in the early game, perhaps because I am one of few who are willing to speak confidently on my opinions. I will admit that sometimes I am a playful thing, but it's rare that I continue to lie throughout the Day.

To what "recent content" are you referring? Not mine, but others?



I've enjoyed Sabrar and jimbob's fight up until now. Two townies playing at fisticuffs, methinks. Should review jimbob in light of the attention he's received.

Sabrar wrote:Indie: SDK

For the record, I am town.

bessie wrote:I would like a short extension (maybe 24 hours?) because I feel D1 was not long enough under the circumstances (game started earlier than expected, 5 days too short for a 16 player game, holiday weekend, etc). What does everyone else think?

If the lord Mod doth will it, I would be naught but content.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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SDK
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Mon May 15, 2017 4:14 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?

SirGabriel wrote:Also, can someone find one of the stage crew and get them to fix that loose floorboard I just tripped over?

SirGabriel, what is the meaning of these oft stated oddities?


Sabrar, I'm not seeing what you're seeing there. He votes me for bad reasons, his town/scum list seems wrong (it's difficult to call it scummy without attached reasoning), but otherwise I see nothing overly concerning. I might call him slightly scummy, but need to see more. What has you so convinced?
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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Sabrar
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 4:18 pm UTC



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