Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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mpolo
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Tue May 16, 2017 3:30 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Vote: SDK


Votals:

DethStalker (3): #HBC|YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog
Gopher of Pern (1): DGames | Bard
dimochka (1): dimochka
SDK (2): SirGabriel, LaserGuy
LaserGuy (2): Znirk, SDK
Znirk (1): jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle (2): Sabrar, bessie
BoomFrog (1): Gopher of Pern

12 people are voting, so there must be 4 not voting… Just over 24 hours left.
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SDK
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 3:35 pm UTC


Right, not just wrong but lying. I can see that, but I think it needs more meat.

dimochka wrote:- sabrar and bessie are my town reads. Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though.
- sdk is non-town

Why do you say "Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though"? Her behavior appears townish, but I hope you're not referring to my confirmation of her when you simultaneously don't think I'm telling the truth.

freezeblade wrote:SDK, for some reason, is pinging me much less this game than typically on D1, I don't know if that means they are more or less townie than normal, however.

With so few scumreads I'm having trouble finding things to jump on. I need more content from you. Opinions.



LaserGuy wrote:
SDK wrote:I have played but one game with you, my lord, in which both of us were villains. Where do you get the impression that I don't share Day 1? I believe that I am usually more open about my intentions and abilities than most in the early game, perhaps because I am one of few who are willing to speak confidently on my opinions. I will admit that sometimes I am a playful thing, but it's rare that I continue to lie throughout the Day.


When did I suggest you were lying? But, yes, I have seen some of your earlier works as well.

You didn't answer my question.

LaserGuy wrote:
SDK wrote:I will say this, if it puts your mind at ease: My role PM does not explicitly state that bessie is town. My role interacts with bessie in a way that points to her being town as very likely.

Normally that sort of thing is best left alone, I agree. The particular circumstances surrounding my attachment to bessie makes revealing it early better. I think. I don't regret it yet, at least. If bessie dies tonight, it will be me to blame, but it's still just one townie among many. Confirmed or not, this is for the best.


Is that so? I must confess, that would seem to quite directly contradict your claim herein. There is a rather large difference between claiming someone is confirmed as town in your PM, and claiming that your PM suggests that individual may be town. In neither case do I imagine it being particularly beneficial to town to make such a claim. But I am of a mind of a particular explanation to this problem. Perhaps a bit of mischief is in order to learn ourselves the truth.

No comment. Why do you think voting for Bessie is a good idea? If you lynch her and she flips town, what does that say about me?



bessie wrote:
SDK wrote: If bessie dies tonight, it will be me to blame, but it's still just one townie among many. Confirmed or not, this is for the best.
Thanks I love you too brother dearest.

Image



At this point I'm looking at LaserGuy, BoomFrog and Madge as most likely. Need more content from Znirk, DethStalker and freezeblade to either clear them or add them to that list.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 3:38 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Vote: SDK

LaserGuy, why are you flaunting your voting ability like that? Do you think there's any use here? Do you think there is no use in saving your ability until later? To me, it's just needless obfuscation, like you're not interested in actually discussing what you're thinking.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 4:26 pm UTC

After giving it some thought LaserGuy's apparent ability is not that scary and can't really be abused. We just have to make sure that the main wagon has a big enough lead, while also avoiding putting anyone to L-1.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Tue May 16, 2017 4:33 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:After giving it some thought LaserGuy's apparent ability is not that scary and can't really be abused. We just have to make sure that the main wagon has a big enough lead, while also avoiding putting anyone to L-1.

I see you figured it out as well. Don't we generally avoid L-1?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Tue May 16, 2017 4:34 pm UTC

Oh, you mean when maintaining that lead.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 16, 2017 4:36 pm UTC

Unvote

SDK wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
SDK wrote:I have played but one game with you, my lord, in which both of us were villains. Where do you get the impression that I don't share Day 1? I believe that I am usually more open about my intentions and abilities than most in the early game, perhaps because I am one of few who are willing to speak confidently on my opinions. I will admit that sometimes I am a playful thing, but it's rare that I continue to lie throughout the Day.


When did I suggest you were lying? But, yes, I have seen some of your earlier works as well.


You didn't answer my question.


Indeed I did.

SDK wrote:No comment. Why do you think voting for Bessie is a good idea? If you lynch her and she flips town, what does that say about me?


I had no intention of lynching bessie. One of the abilities I had suggested to mpolo included a particular behaviour that I felt could possibly have explained your revealing bessie as town. Had you had this ability, voting for bessie would have allowed me to indirectly verify your claim. As it turns out, my speculation was misplaced.

SDK wrote:LaserGuy, why are you flaunting your voting ability like that? Do you think there's any use here? Do you think there is no use in saving your ability until later? To me, it's just needless obfuscation, like you're not interested in actually discussing what you're thinking.


Very well, I suppose there is no harm in it. My vote, as with my vote on Znirk, was involuntary. I have a particular trait that instantly and automatically applies an OMGUS vote on anyone who votes for me. I do not foresee any particular method that this ability can be used nefariously, either by myself, or by scum, but I have limited imagination for such things. If you would like to verify, you can unvote and then vote me again.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I see you figured it out as well.
I didn't. I simply thought he was able to vote via pm.
OMGUS voting should not cause any issues, even in LYLO (barring other shenanigans).

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby dimochka » Tue May 16, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:- sabrar and bessie are my town reads. Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though.
- sdk is non-town

Why do you say "Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though"? Her behavior appears townish, but I hope you're not referring to my confirmation of her when you simultaneously don't think I'm telling the truth.

No sir, I'm referring to the general read people get from her across games. Though your note does give it slightly more credibility in my eyes.

bessie wrote:
dimochka wrote:- Yoloswag accepted the "bessie is town" argument much too easily. don't like it.
What I find interesting is those who so easily accepted SDK’s claim that I am town as truth, but would still label SDK scum.

It's a strange claim to make. And given SDK's playing habits, this says little about his actual alignment. I partially agree with you that he's not likely to be standard scum, but who knows what variations of scum exist in this game (or independents). That's where I would put him. I highly doubt he's town, but I'm not convinced that he's anti-town either.

dimochka wrote:- Vote GoP because he's a terrible father.
Cordelia, was this meant to be a serious vote?[/quote]
No, King Lear is Cordelia's father. He tries to convince her to profess her love for him and then banishes her when she refuses (I'm shortening and paraphrasing wikipedia). So I wouldn't call him a stellar father figure...

Do we have a new deadline (or rather, is it in roughly 23 hours)? Or am I past deadline now? Pretty sure we can still post but I'm trying to figure out where we stand.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 16, 2017 4:46 pm UTC

Phone post on journey home about latest posts. More later on.
Sabrar wrote:After giving it some thought LaserGuy's apparent ability is not that scary and can't really be abused. We just have to make sure that the main wagon has a big enough lead, while also avoiding putting anyone to L-1.
Pretty confident I know what it is as well. I agree with your caution, and especially given the likely presence of other vote abilities, avoiding L-1 until there is pretty universal opinion seems wise.

Guardian Angel is not usually a town role, which is what the discussion was about, I think, so SDK's and Sabrar's points in relation to SirGabriel in this area are invalid (i.e. he's not definitely lying based on that Gojoe post). However, he didn't put much effort into considering the possibilities, which has me frowning at him.

Many Ninjas including confirmation of my belief re. LaserGuy.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 4:54 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Do we have a new deadline (or rather, is it in roughly 23 hours)? Or am I past deadline now? Pretty sure we can still post but I'm trying to figure out where we stand.

mpolo wrote:New deadline: Wednesday evening


Deadline is 23 hours from this post.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Tue May 16, 2017 5:03 pm UTC

Here's a general newb question I was typing before Sabrar commented on LaserGuy's voting:

If I figure something out using public knowledge and logic. Should I share it? Even if it may end up being detrimental to town? I think I should, because if I can figure it out, so can scum and they can communicate about it. While multiple townies might figure it out but it's likely a few will miss it.


So basically, should I have outed LaserGuy for the benefit of town? (Or at least prodded him to out himself?)
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 5:14 pm UTC

You need to consider the consequences of the ability becoming public. In this specific case the ability cannot be misused or exploited so there is no harm in my opinion of it being revealed. Also it lessens the confusion and allows us to focus on more important things.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 5:15 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
SDK wrote:You didn't answer my question.

Indeed I did.

You said you looked back at my previous games, but your conclusion contradicts the content there. You said "SDK does not reveal information voluntarily, especially in D1, regardless of his alignment" and I want you to back that up. I am never cagey about everything. There are often specific points that I have reason to keep to myself, but they are always revealed in full later on. So my question stands - where did you get that impression? The reason I ask is I think you're mudslinging here.

LaserGuy wrote:Very well, I suppose there is no harm in it. My vote, as with my vote on Znirk, was involuntary. I have a particular trait that instantly and automatically applies an OMGUS vote on anyone who votes for me. I do not foresee any particular method that this ability can be used nefariously, either by myself, or by scum, but I have limited imagination for such things. If you would like to verify, you can unvote and then vote me again.

That makes more sense. Much less dangerous.

You've now unvoted me, LaserGuy. Where do you currently stand with this game?



dimochka wrote:
SDK wrote:
dimochka wrote:- sabrar and bessie are my town reads. Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though.
- sdk is non-town

Why do you say "Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though"? Her behavior appears townish, but I hope you're not referring to my confirmation of her when you simultaneously don't think I'm telling the truth.

No sir, I'm referring to the general read people get from her across games. Though your note does give it slightly more credibility in my eyes.

I am no sir, but a beggar Tom. The streets see, however, and that one line still bugs me.



plytho wrote:Here's a general newb question I was typing before Sabrar commented on LaserGuy's voting:

If I figure something out using public knowledge and logic. Should I share it? Even if it may end up being detrimental to town? I think I should, because if I can figure it out, so can scum and they can communicate about it. While multiple townies might figure it out but it's likely a few will miss it.


So basically, should I have outed LaserGuy for the benefit of town? (Or at least prodded him to out himself?)

Depends on what the information is. Do not overestimate scum - they will often miss what you see (I've made this mistake in the past and handed scum information they wouldn't have had otherwise). If you figure something out and think someone is doing it for scummy reasons, out them. If you can see a townie motivation, keep it to yourself. If the scum would be greatly helped by that information (a doctor's breadcrumb, for example), keep it to yourself. In this case, I don't think it really mattered. If LaserGuy had been trying to make it seem like he had another ability, catching him in a lie is fine, but he'd made no comment on his ability up to that point, so no big deal either way. LaserGuy probably should have just explained it from the outset, though I guess he got my reaction to it at the very least.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 5:27 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:There are some suggested role-playing "restrictions" that are intended to add to the fun. I'm not planning on policing them.

Due to RL time crunch I'm going to drop the fancy prose this post. My apologies to my fans Bessie and plytho.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Boomfrog, you have provided extremely little in what you have said. I'm not even sure what you provided for my benefit. Your constant avoiding of matters on import, has me thinking you are hiding something.

Unvote
Vote: Boomfrog

:roll: I was trying to prod the lurkers to get them to participate more. I admit ideally I would have gotten down a meaty post yesterday but RL was in the way of that. Anyway, Znirk and dethstalker are the mods business now.

Sabrar wrote:Soulreads should not be rationalized, lest they lose their meaning.

I see we are like minded. But in reviewing your point I think you should actually revisit jimbobMacdoodle. I was also surprised that on a reread he appears quite townie.

Town
BoomFrog
Sabrar
dimochka
jimbobmacdoodle
Madge
freezeblade
bessie
plytho

Gopher of Pern
YOLOSWAG
Bard
SirGabriel

SDK
LaserGuy
Scum

Lurkers who need to participate more or be replaced:
Znirk
dethstalker

I've been thinking of voting JimBob or LaserGuy but my reread of JimBob makes me feel he is probably town. SDK has been extremely unhelpful so close to deadline and his "half miller" claim was entirely unnecessary and makes no sense in light of the randomized roles. I'm going to reread LaserGuy and if I don't think he's scum I'm going to vote SDK by processes of elimination plus other pings. This feels like I'm bitter about last game, but I'm really not. I'm also trying not to let the fear of bias bias me the other way away from these three. (for those who don't know, last game Laser, JimBob, and SDK pulled a perfect mafia game against town, largely due to SDK's leadership in mafia daychat.)

Unvote: Dethstalker
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 5:36 pm UTC

One thing to keep in mind with regards to LaserGuy's ability if he's Town or there are opposing scum-factions that can exploit it: it is possible for scum to make LaserGuy 'unvote' if the wagons are close enough right before the deadline.
But that doesn't mean too much as in a game with so many voting-related abilities we need to get a solid lead anyway on the main lynch-target.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 5:48 pm UTC

SDK wrote:At this point I'm looking at LaserGuy, BoomFrog and Madge as most likely. Need more content from Znirk, DethStalker and freezeblade to either clear them or add them to that list.

While I work on my reads list: Laser and I make sense, but why pick Madge out of the other low content people. What pings you about her?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 5:54 pm UTC

@Everyone else: The most useful thing we can have to judge your content is a town to scum list. Even if it's just based on gut that better then nothing. Reasons are more helpful (yes I know I'm a hypocrite).
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 6:02 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:SDK has been extremely unhelpful so close to deadline

What would you like me to do that I haven't been doing?

BoomFrog wrote:Laser and I make sense, but why pick Madge out of the other low content people. What pings you about her?

Primarily her jump on my role PM discussion in her first post, but also: her ignoring my direct question about that, approach to the voting abilities, dancing around the DethStalker lynch, and discussion of her own role PM details. Neither of her posts feel townie to me, and both have hints of being scum.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 6:02 pm UTC

Updated list.

TOWN

Bessie
Gopher of Pern
jimbobmacdoodle
YOLOSWAG
Bard
plytho
Sabrar - started out bothering me with the inconsistent and short nature of his interactions with me re:bessie, but his interactions with jimbob, plytho and SirG have me feeling pretty good.

freezeblade
Dimochka
SirGabriel
DethStalker
Znirk

BoomFrog
Madge
LaserGuy

SCUM
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 16, 2017 6:04 pm UTC

Everyone: Unfortunately I have requested replacement on this game from mpolo, work has hit me like a ton of bricks, and I don't have the time to analyze this game the way it deserves.

If there is no available replacement, I will limp along and try my best, but either way I apologize to everyone.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Tue May 16, 2017 6:20 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Everyone: Unfortunately I have requested replacement on this game from mpolo, work has hit me like a ton of bricks, and I don't have the time to analyze this game the way it deserves.

If there is no available replacement, I will limp along and try my best, but either way I apologize to everyone.


I posted in replacements, and PMed the potential replacement who had mentioned the possibility in Gojoe. Hopefully all will be good.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 16, 2017 6:37 pm UTC

SDK wrote:You said you looked back at my previous games, but your conclusion contradicts the content there. You said "SDK does not reveal information voluntarily, especially in D1, regardless of his alignment" and I want you to back that up. I am never cagey about everything. There are often specific points that I have reason to keep to myself, but they are always revealed in full later on. So my question stands - where did you get that impression? The reason I ask is I think you're mudslinging here.


Here's one example, where you explain not only that you do this, but why you do it. I've seen you write similar things before, though I'm not going to search through a dozen games to find them.

SDK wrote:You've now unvoted me, LaserGuy. Where do you currently stand with this game?


Here's my town-to-scum list.

Town
LaserGuy
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
BoomFrog
bessie
DGames
plytho
Gopher
SirGabriel
dimochka
Sabrar
SDK
freezeblade
Madge
jimbob
Scum

Please replace
Znirk
DethStalker

freezeblade and Madge I feel have been active lurking. They have been putting in few posts on the whole, and the content that they have provided has been mostly fluff. In the case of Madge, not only mostly fluff, but the parts that aren't fluff are questionable in and of themselves. Both of these players are fairly experienced and should know better.

I think I have spent enough time discussing my opinions of you, so I won't bother to reiterate at this point.

jimbob has produced some very questionable content. He has been fishing hard for information regarding vote powers, and has been combative in a manner that reminds me quite a bit of his D1 play of last game. My strongest scumread of active players at this point, but I'm happy lynching any of the bottom four on my list. I would prefer not to lynch Znirk or DethStalker simply on the grounds that I feel town can do better than a pure lurker lynch based on the content that is available to us, and, given the choice, would prefer those two be replaced. I see from preview that freezeblade has already requested a replacement, so replacements for all three is doubtful. Vexing, that.

I'm tempted to vote for Madge at this point, simply because I feel that she's scum and I'd prefer to have fewer lurkers in the game as a whole. jimbob, while scummy, at least is participating and producing content.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 16, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

I still think DethStalker's our best shot.

People have been calling for a replacement, but why? He hasn't been totally inactive, he's been given many, many chances to contribute and has actively refused to even when handed simple questions. I understand the hesitation because he is new, but he HAS given us something to work with: active refusal to contribute. Perhaps he doesn't want to say anything that could incriminate himself or potential scumbuddies.

If there is a vig, please shoot one of [DethStalker/freezeblade/Znirk/Madge].

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 16, 2017 7:09 pm UTC

Sorry to hear that freezeblade.

I think I'll be online around deadline to switch my vote if needed but I believe I have a good play as is.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 7:21 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Here's one example, where you explain not only that you do this, but why you do it. I've seen you write similar things before, though I'm not going to search through a dozen games to find them.

Oh that! Yes, I do that, but I still reveal that information voluntarily, I just usually wait until people ask me for it to generate content. I can accept that I haven't made public my reasons for putting that information out there this game, but does this look a bit different to you? How could I possibly have gotten someone to ask me whether I have confirmation of bessie as town in my role PM? Ah, but there's that word again - "confirmation". If you want to look at similarities with past games, ask yourself why I worded it that way to start with without further detail (detail which I gave later after discussion).

Another question for you, LaserGuy: This is your first town game after being scum twice in a row. Are you having difficulties switching gears? Please explain how you're feeling.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 7:22 pm UTC

YOLOSWAG, how would you feel about lynching Madge today instead?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 7:23 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:If there is a vig, please shoot one of [DethStalker/jimbob/Znirk/LaserGuy].
FTFY

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 16, 2017 7:32 pm UTC

A Madge lynch?

Is there evidence she has been avoiding the thread and purposely lurking? Or has she shown scumminess in her 1 or 2 posts?

If not, I wouldn't be enthusiastic because I have her as a straight null. Most of that pool are straight nulls and I gave as suggestions to "clean up" the game before we have too many nulls as the game continues. I'd rather have them shot than waste a lynch on them.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 7:40 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:A Madge lynch?

Is there evidence she has been avoiding the thread and purposely lurking? Or has she shown scumminess in her 1 or 2 posts?

If not, I wouldn't be enthusiastic because I have her as a straight null. Most of that pool are straight nulls and I gave as suggestions to "clean up" the game before we have too many nulls as the game continues. I'd rather have them shot than waste a lynch on them.

I find her posts scummy. In absence of strong scum reads otherwise, she'd be my pick.

Also, in my opinion, vig shots are just as powerful as the lynch. Like the lynch, they shouldn't be used to shoot lurkers unless there's no better choice available.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 16, 2017 9:00 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Oh that! Yes, I do that, but I still reveal that information voluntarily, I just usually wait until people ask me for it to generate content. I can accept that I haven't made public my reasons for putting that information out there this game, but does this look a bit different to you? How could I possibly have gotten someone to ask me whether I have confirmation of bessie as town in my role PM? Ah, but there's that word again - "confirmation". If you want to look at similarities with past games, ask yourself why I worded it that way to start with without further detail (detail which I gave later after discussion).


I will think on this a bit and get back to you. Out of curiosity, did the similar scenario with Zyth/Gopher from last game come to mind when made this claim? It certainly did to me.

SDK wrote:Another question for you, LaserGuy: This is your first town game after being scum twice in a row. Are you having difficulties switching gears? Please explain how you're feeling.


I'm finding the game so far to be very mentally taxing. In hindsight, it was probably a mistake for me to attempt to do any roleplaying since it meant I've spent a lot of time and energy on trying to make my posts have the style I wanted, and I think my analysis has suffered as a result. I also feel blind. In my previous games, I knew who my targets were, and who I had to protect. I had assumed scum would be much harder to play than town because you're outnumbered and having to lie or obfuscate all the time, but upon reflection, I think that townies probably have it a lot rougher because you don't know anything, and don't know what you can trust. Townies are trying put a puzzle together, while scum just have to come over and discreetly kick the pieces.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 9:12 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Out of curiosity, did the similar scenario with Zyth/Gopher from last game come to mind when made this claim? It certainly did to me.

No, I didn't give any thought to that at all. Did you think I was trying to take advantage of that happening so recently or something?

...

I'm going to go ahead and do this. It's not my favourite read in the world, but I'm feeling a bit like I did back in Secret Santa 2016. Not a lot to go on, but there were a couple hits in a lurker's post, so I pushed the RoadieRich wagon. Worked out well that time, so...

Unvote, Vote: Madge
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 9:30 pm UTC

Funny how SDK unvoting makes me feel better about this. I know I'm not being led by the nose this time.

LaserGuy wrote:
Znirk wrote:I think we're all agreed Day One is hard,
Yet what I hear in the debate thus far
Hath led me to suspect of Gabriel
And Laser Guy, and to a lesser point,
I wonder at what Master SDK
Is up to when he shouts that Madge is town.

vote: Laserguy


Madge is town? How curious.

Unvote Znirk


This reminds me of exactly what happened to scum!LaserGuy last game. He got for votes on him D1 and dismissed it casually. Too casually in retrospect which was because SDK (his scum mates) was the fourth and advised him to stay cool via PM.

LaserGuy is dismissing znirk too casually and didn't deem fit to respond in any way or question znirk's bizarre reasoning. This is scum LaserGuy trying too hard to be casual.

DethStalker - The soul of unreason. I think enough words about him have been said considering what little he has provided. My only misgiving is that I hear the rumblings of an approaching wagon, one which, perhaps, is being guided by nefarious hands in hopes of misdirecting us from more dangerous targets.

Also this is a very defending without defending sort of scum post. If LaserGuy​ is scum I suspect DethStalker is too. Especially with how angry LaserGuy's later interaction with Dethstalker is. (No quote because I'm on mobile).

Vote LaserGuy
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 9:40 pm UTC

Madge wrote:Guys guys guys I'm so very sorry that I haven't posted yet! I've only just arrived - where may we set our horses?

I know you've all been really busy and gotten a lot done and I'm hoping I can contribute and that you're not going to be too put out by my dallying!!!

I think SDK made a good point about his role PM - my role PM looks good but my character is not the greatest, I hope it doesn't make any of you think any less of me! I'm going to try my best and do a good job this time, honest!


@SDK: I think you lack a post restriction and so haven't been seeing things through that lense but clearly Madge "lacks self confidence". I would normally let her defend herself but we are too close to deadline. I think her comment about her role bring not great was entirely role playing and not another Miller-esc claim like yours.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 10:00 pm UTC

Based on how the mod described the setup I would assume that everyone has a posting restriction and a vote-related ability/restriction. Some might not be as obvious as others.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Tue May 16, 2017 10:18 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Madge wrote:Guys guys guys I'm so very sorry that I haven't posted yet! I've only just arrived - where may we set our horses?

I know you've all been really busy and gotten a lot done and I'm hoping I can contribute and that you're not going to be too put out by my dallying!!!

I think SDK made a good point about his role PM - my role PM looks good but my character is not the greatest, I hope it doesn't make any of you think any less of me! I'm going to try my best and do a good job this time, honest!


@SDK: I think you lack a post restriction and so haven't been seeing things through that lense but clearly Madge "lacks self confidence". I would normally let her defend herself but we are too close to deadline. I think her comment about her role bring not great was entirely role playing and not another Miller-esc claim like yours.


I thought she meant her character 'Oswald' is one of the bad guys in the play. Apparently Oswald is a willing accomplice to Goneril's (my character's) plotting.

Sabrar wrote:Based on how the mod described the setup I would assume that everyone has a posting restriction and a vote-related ability/restriction. Some might not be as obvious as others.
Either that's not the case or I need to reread my role-pm al lot better.
he him his

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 16, 2017 10:32 pm UTC

Quick re-read of most recent content, and updated reads:

Notes:
Spoiler:
bessie - confused by LaserGuy vote weirdness. DethStalker suggestions. Confirmation post thoughts. Looking for my reaction to me defending DethStalker statement. Gopher defended DethStalker. Asks Gopher for list of scummier players. Thinks DethStalker newbie scum (refusing offers of help, not posting when online). Suspicious that LaserGuy pointed out bessie as obvious NK target. Thinks plytho is defending a course of action. Switches vote to me. Finds interesting people who accepted SDK confirmation as truth, when holding him as scum. Asks freezeblade for analysis. Sarcasm @LaserGuy wine. Sees difference between mine and plytho's defence. Thought hated was scummy.

BoomFrog - Refuses to explain his reads, because he might give scum info on how to improve. Wants more content from players. Trying to prod lurkers into producing content. Thinks Sabrar should revisit me, as I appear townie on re-read. SDK has been unhelpful close to deadline. Going to vote one of LaserGuy or SDK. Asks SDK about Madge in his top scum group. Asks for town to scum list, preferably with reasons.

DethStalker - When he scum reads he can't, or something. Trying to contribute, asks for list of questions.

DGames | Bard - New to mafia, not opposed to his lynch, due to lack of useful content. Potentially a town time bomb, but willing for opinion to change. Gopher content fixated on roles and not connections/reads. Asks about hated being scummy. Asks for further clarity on GoP and LG reads from Yoloswag. SDK claim is bold - uncertain behind initial intent, and not being transparent, neutral, not necessarily scummy. Gopher, Dethstalker stick out. Thinks LG contributed a lot more than GoP. GoP/DethStalker lynch candidates. Bits of GoP posts too fluffy, no town intent. Not sure what trying to achieve. Votes GoP, but uncertain. Challenges GoP to a duel...

dimochka - skim summary, with comments on highlights. Doesn't like Yoloswag acceptance of bessie is town. 3 (normal)/2 (supernatural) scum teams. Explains reason for two scum teams, rather than SK and scum. Doesn't see why others find LaserGuy(Znirk?) scummy. Speculates on reason for SDK to claim town!bessie. Sabrar/bessie town. SDK non-town. Znirk scummy. Doubts jester. SDK's claim is strange, and says little about his alignment. Doubts SDK is standard scum, but also not town.

freezeblade - some setup speculation. SDK isn't pinging him as much as normal. Requested replacement.

Gopher of Pern - DethStalker likely newbie town. Liability does not justify early lynching over scummier candidates. My reads list is mostly scum. Doesn't see bessie as scummy. Yolo similar to last game due to no reasons. Feeling good about Sabrar. Adds to role ideas for SDK knowing bessie as town. Does not like BoomFrog jumping on DethStalker. Scummiest players are me, Yolo, BoomFrog, possibly SDK. Dislikes LG's characterisation of BF. Defensive versus plytho re. DS. Suspicious of plytho's list (disagrees with it), wants to know why he has people as townie. Responds to questions, doesn't like focusing on setup spec. Votes BoomFrog - provided extremely little in what he has said, and avoiding matters of import.

Yoloswag - DethStalker can go, due to refusal to contribute. LG & GoP spent lots of time discussing setup early. Thinks LG scummier from this than GoP. We should hold Bard accountable. Repeats DethStalker is best shot. Vig should shoot one of DS/FB/Znirk/Madge. Not enthusiastic about Madge lynch currently.

LaserGuy - responds to bessie's comment, re. his pointing out scum target (what else would he say?). Thinks that town!SDK would not make such a statement early on. SDK in pool of scum/anti-town indies/townie with extremely scummy wincon(huh?). SDK might have invented the info. SDK does not willingly reveal info D1. May return to voting him later. Dislikes Sabrar for attempting to role-fish via mod. Interacts with SDK over claim. Points out contradiction in claim. Has a theory for the explanation. Votes bessie. Reads on all other players. Asks DethStalker questions, and gets angry with him. Unvotes. Thought ability he submitted might have been given to bessie and was trying it out. Explains vote mechanic. Provides town to scum list. Me scummiest. Tempted to vote for Madge. Explains how he's feeling.

bessie - (1st in townie list, previously moderately townie, partly due to SDK claim): Her vote on me hasn't been explained explicitly, which as I've said before, I don't like in principle (applies to all votes after initial RVS, not just ones on me). I think she's being overly critical of LaserGuy's pointing out of her as a night target. Any scum worth their salt knows that a "confirmed" townie is bad for them (cue reaction from bessie that I'm pointing it out again), so unless she's fishing for reactions, I don't understand her aggression on this point. She's prodded a few people, which is always good, but her other content has felt a little forced at times. Slightly townie still, but has slipped from her previous place.

BoomFrog - (5th, slightly townie, needing more content): As I said earlier, I'm not a fan of his refusing to explain his reads further, but I assume that he'll be explaining any remaining unexplained scummy reads (i.e. LaserGuy), after he's finished re-reading LaserGuy. No change on my read on him, still slightly townie, largely due to gut feeling at this point.

DethStalker - (9th, madness/pseudo-lurker): I don't think anything's changed here, but it still could if DethStalker actually bothers to produce some content (like responding to the questions he's been asked, posting some opinions on who he thinks scum are etc). I don't think mpolo's under any obligation to replace him, since he is posting. Just posting terribly. Still perfectly happy with his lynch, though there are probably better candidates.

DGames | Bard - (11th, Scummy): His only post (apart from his duel-challenge) since my previous reads list was quite a big one. He says a lot, but there's not actually that much meat in it, in my opinion. I note that he does seem to be playing the "uncertain about everything" card ("perhaps I am misreading him"), which may be fair for someone being new to the forums, but otherwise I'd regard as a scum tell. Not really changing from my previous scummy read of him.

@Bard - Aside from GoP and DethStalker, who do you find scummiest? Why?

dimochka - (10th, slightly scummy due to lurking): I'm dropping the lurker tag here now, as dimochka has certainly contributed now. He promised a scum to town list over 24 hours ago, but has yet to provide it (though this is typical from dimochka). My gut is reading him as slightly townie now, but there's still not much in the way of opinions on most players.

freezeblade - (8th, slightly scummy pending further content): Not much new from him. His only contribution since his last reads post was mostly focused on setup speculation. I'd have thought he'd have tried to post some thoughts on one or two players, (aside from his almost throw-away comment about SDK), in that post. Still slightly scummy lurker.

Gopher of Pern - (12th, scummy): Gopher has upped his game somewhat since my reads list, in that he has commented on people and started to provide some justifications behind some of his reads. However, his reads on plytho and BoomFrog are very different to mine. Improving, but still on the scummier side of neutral, due to earlier concerns.

#HBC | Yoloswag - (7th, slightly scummy due to low content): Seems to be lasered in on DethStalker, which I can totally understand, though I'm wondering if it's at a cost of looking at other players. His heads up on Bard is good information, but I wouldn't mind having Yolo's own his opinion on Bard. Gut reading is moving him into a slight town position from his previous lurker slot, but that's hardly concrete.

LaserGuy - (14th, scummy): I've already made comments about LaserGuy and how I don't like a lot of what he's said up to now. The thing that's bothering me the most is his accusations against SDK. He really isn't trying very hard to think of why town!SDK might confirm bessie as town. That all being said, a number of his opinions do match my own, and his response to SDK's recent question feels like it would have been hard to manufacture as scum. I still think he is scum, but I'm not 100% confident in it. Possibly an anti-town indie?

-- No more detailed notes on remaining players - it's getting too late --

Madge - (6th, lurker extraordinaire): one big post since her prodding, talking about vote manipulation. She seems to be coming down against DethStalker, and dislikes SirG for his comment about roles matching SDK's claim. Nothing stands out there. There's a hint of something in the post that makes me feel that she is more likely town than not, but it could easily go the other way.

plytho - (4th, slightly town): so much of what he has said all game lines up with my opinions. There are some differences (e.g. his read of Bard), but I don't expect people to 100% agree with me on everything. Probably Town.

Sabrar - (13th, scum, possibly OMGUS): As I noted earlier, I now get his case regarding DethStalker, but I'm surprised that he still doesn't appear to see it from my or plytho's point of view. He is prodding people as always, making lots of posts as well. There is a niggle about his (and others') thoughts over LaserGuy's vote ability, which I'm reluctant to disclose, for fear of helping scum. If there's a general consensus from some of my townier reads for me to explain it, I will. It's not something that necessarily makes Sabrar scum for thinking it though. I don't like his FTFY on Yoloswag, not so much because it adds me (though that's what grabbed my attention), but more because he seems to be suggesting that Yoloswag made an accidental mistake in the list, potentially trying to mislead others. If he had his own opinion, he should have stated this explicitly, rather than trying to co-opt someone else's belief. Still slightly scummy, though improving.

SDK - (2nd, typical town!SDK): As I said earlier, I don't like his contradiction over confirmation versus very likely that bessie is town, especially given his comments re. being honest. Otherwise, his interactions with LaserGuy in particular seem good. I'm a little surprised that he missed LaserGuy's ability being mandatory, but having played with scum!SDK last guy, I learnt in scum chat that he isn't infallible! I'm curious that he unvoted LaserGuy however. Overall, still reasonably happy with him being in town.

@SDK - you just unvoted LaserGuy, when he was previously your top scum pick. What is it that convinced you otherwise?

SirGabriel - (3rd, moderately town): As I said earlier, SirG's lack of thought as to possible town!SDK roles based on his claim is disturbing. I also think he's not considering the point about having character traits when considering why SDK might have a scummy role. Still slightly townie, but I want to do a full re-read of him at some point (not likely going to happen this game day though).

Znirk - (15th, scum and lurker): Not posted since my last reads post, so no change. Still very scummy.

Requesting modprod on Znirk

Town
plytho
bessie
SDK
SirGabriel
BoomFrog
dimochka
Madge (lurker)
Yoloswag
Gopher of Pern
DethStalker (lurker)
DGames | Bard
Sabrar
LaserGuy
Znirk
Scum

I'm not confident in my scum reads on Sabrar or LaserGuy, so would prefer a Znirk or DethStalker lynch at this stage.

I'll be online a bit in the morning UTC time, so can respond or address any points raised before deadline.
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matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 16, 2017 10:33 pm UTC

I asketh all thee fair citizens, is thither any interest in a DethStalker playeth? if 't be true not, I wilt beest changing mine vote to Laserguy.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DGames | Bard » Tue May 16, 2017 11:26 pm UTC

Can only make quick hits today, so I'll respond to Jim in a bit.

But more importantly, and for reasons I can't really explain, Laserguy should not be a play today. I have verrrrrry good reasons for saying this. I know I'm pulling an SDK here somewhat, but yeah.

I'll compromise to Dethstalker if need be, but I will vehemently have to stand behind Laserguy as being Town, contrary to what seems like scummy behavior according to a few.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 11:57 pm UTC

DGames | Bard wrote:Can only make quick hits today, so I'll respond to Jim in a bit.

But more importantly, and for reasons I can't really explain, Laserguy should not be a play today. I have verrrrrry good reasons for saying this. I know I'm pulling an SDK here somewhat, but yeah.

I'll compromise to Dethstalker if need be, but I will vehemently have to stand behind Laserguy as being Town, contrary to what seems like scummy behavior according to a few.

Huh... you better have a REALLY good reason that your going to reveal D2 if this ends up going sour.

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