Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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dimochka
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby dimochka » Mon May 15, 2017 5:07 pm UTC

Quick post for now:

Page 1
- sabrar is probably not scum. don't think he would make a joke like the one in the very beginning if he were scum.
- SDK likely has some sort of relationship to bessie. no idea what it is. either not scum, or some kind of special scum (maybe don't know each other? or no nightchat?)
- Yoloswag accepted the "bessie is town" argument much too easily. don't like it.
- @Freezeblade (re: very last post on Pg1) - I have a feeling that you're misreading my persona, but I appreciate all the attention you're directing towards me. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Page 2
- Vote GoP because he's a terrible father.

SDK wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Also bessie's confirmed town? Cool, though I would have preferred a player who's less obviously innocent when town, heh.

The new more aggressive style bessie's taken on recently has yet to be tested as far as I know, but she's good at acting town when she's scum. No wonder she got the lead role. *grumble grumble*

Incorrect, I have the lead role. And always have. And always will.
- Note: I'm going to make a prediction that we have a 3-man regular scum team, and some possibly some kind of supernatural 2man team that may or may not be able to kill or communicate or something else.
- @SDK - I don't see why dethstalker is scum (yet at least). Edit: after reading the rest of the thread, I take that back.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I find it interesting that people have immediately jumped to two scum teams instead of the more traditional (around these parts) SK + scum team. I'd like explanations on why people think this, from LaserGuy, Gopher of Pern, Yoloswag, and anybody else who believes there to be two scum teams.

The flavor called out two very different types of kills. Historically, letting us know explicitly that we're facing both scum and an SK is uncommon (as in - we would have to figure out the presence or absence of an SK on our own). Since this is much more explicit, I believe there are two separate teams. I don't know whether their goals are different from a regular scum team, but I'd prefer to be on the safer side and assume that we should eliminate both.
- Znirk - I don't see how laserguy is scummy here. it is very strange that SDK would call it out like that, so his methods may be less than noble, and it logically makes sense that someone should point it out. Edit: looks like Boomfrog pointed out the same thing on Page 3. Edit2: looks like other people are finding this scummy. Don't see why.

Page 3
- Laserguy - don't take my games as a guideline for what's done on the forums. They're not standard. And messy. Also, 4/3/3 is not necessarily a losing position for town, but it's a terrible spot to be in. And at that point well deserved if they play that badly / scum is that lucky. Edit: looks like GoP saw the same thing.
- @SirG - your post actually makes a lot of sense re:SDK. Let's think about it for a moment. Why would SDK want to reveal bessie's townieness? Some options: (1) he's a traitor and knows that she's scum. Unlikely. and the opposite wouldn't work unless she's a death miller which would be very bastardly. (2) he's her neighbor and is testing the waters. Unlikely because then she would also be aware of it. And I don't know of a role that's like a 1-sided neighbor. (3) they're masons. no reason whatsoever to reveal it. (4) he's her lyncher. possible. still unlikely but less so than the others. (5) he's her backup and decided to speed up the process? actually I can kinda see this being a possibility. I'm sure there are other options. Still don't see SDK as townie given that play.

I'll have a scum to town list later today, but the ones that stand out currently are:
- sabrar and bessie are my town reads. Bessie is probably almost everyone's town read though.
- sdk is non-town
- znirk seems scummy, probably because lurking + posting something i disagree with but never responding to it
- dethstalker is... I don't even know. @Dethstalker - please just offer up your opinions about people. Regardless of whether they're ultimately correct, they'll help with some of our decision making. It doesn't look like the game has any specific posting restrictions (yes, you should attempt to stick with the flavor but it is much more important to play the game and get rid of scum), so I don't see how your posts are helping so far. Who do you think is town or scum?

I also can't see mpolo putting in a jester (or at least a jester that can win on D1).
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Mon May 15, 2017 5:17 pm UTC

A few thoughts about setup speculation by others:
bessie wrote:
mpolo wrote:If there is a jester in the game, a jester win would end the game.

This is not the answer I expected, and it makes me suspect there is not a jester in the game, because I can't see a mod putting in the work required to set up and run a game and having it end on D1.


Not the answer I expected either (I was expecting a "No comment"), but for what it's worth, I have seen jesters who end the game if lynched, on this forum (although If you pressed me, I would be unable to list which one without some searching though all the games).

That said, I'd say the likelihood of a jester, after that comment, is somewhere below 20% by my reckoning.

Another game with more than one scum team was Harry Potter? but again, that was a huge game, that was far from standard setup.

Someone mentioned how masons can possibly confirm someone as town, and I figured I should mention that on this forum, there is no guarantee of townyness of mason partners (see batmafia, as well as chairman maofia).

SDK, for some reason, is pinging me much less this game than typically on D1, I don't know if that means they are more or less townie than normal, however.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Mon May 15, 2017 5:42 pm UTC

Votals coming soon – going to dinner. I've seen two votes for extension. Is there consensus?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 5:43 pm UTC

I'm also fine with an extension.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Mon May 15, 2017 5:57 pm UTC


If SDK were Guardian Angel, why would he claim to have a scummy-looking role? It was that comment, and not merely his claim to know bessie's alignment, that has left me confused about his true role.

SDK wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?

SirGabriel wrote:Also, can someone find one of the stage crew and get them to fix that loose floorboard I just tripped over?

SirGabriel, what is the meaning of these oft stated oddities?

My apologies, I've always been a tad clumsy. Honestly, I thought people would have realized that by now, especially after I slipped on that banana peel a few minutes ago. But as they say, all's fair in love and war.
On a more serious note, this makes me think neither of SDK's character traits manifest merely as posting restrictions, though I'm not sure exactly what to do with this information.

An extension sounds good to me.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby dimochka » Mon May 15, 2017 5:58 pm UTC

Extension would be great, but preferably not a long one. Don't want D1 taking weeks. 1-2 days max.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 6:02 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:Extension would be great, but preferably not a long one. Don't want D1 taking weeks. 1-2 days max.

Bessie proposed 1 day (24h) which I'm fine with. I don't want a long extension either.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 6:22 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:If SDK were Guardian Angel, why would he claim to have a scummy-looking role? It was that comment, and not merely his claim to know bessie's alignment, that has left me confused about his true role.
You did mention SDK's comment about a scummy-looking role but in my original read it was disconnected from your overall assessment of him and pertained only to the possibility of a Mason. Also GA might have secondary ability that is scummy, though I realize you had less reason to think of this being the case. In light of your reply I'll retract my suspicion that arose from the issue.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 15, 2017 6:32 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog, please could you further explain the scummy reads you have of LaserGuy, myself and Znirk, with a little more detail.

In a past life I might have erred so grievously,
That a villain could learn from me to better himself and his seeming.
To be outwitted by ones own wit is the most disastrous of fates.
Even in the next life I wouldn't chance to meet that bitter end again.

Aside, you agree with my ill view of Sir LaserGuy and Znirk,
yet you question me to my motives.
Your betrothed must be enchanted with your dexterous lips
Able to disagree on one side while agreeing from the other.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 15, 2017 6:33 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:Votals coming soon – going to dinner. I've seen two votes for extension. Is there consensus?

dimochka wrote:Extension would be great, but preferably not a long one. Don't want D1 taking weeks. 1-2 days max.

I fourth support of an extension but not more than 24 hours please.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 6:41 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
mpolo wrote:Votals coming soon – going to dinner. I've seen two votes for extension. Is there consensus?

dimochka wrote:Extension would be great, but preferably not a long one. Don't want D1 taking weeks. 1-2 days max.

I fourth support of an extension but not more than 24 hours please.


Counting a couple of non-bold replies I think we're at 7 people supporting a 24h extension.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby dimochka » Mon May 15, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

US folks - I didn't realize that the timer was based on time in Germany, and the current deadline is noon EST / 9am PST tomorrow (and I assume the time will remain the same while the day may be pushed out). Just wanted to point it out.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 7:25 pm UTC

Request mod-prod on Znirk.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Mon May 15, 2017 7:39 pm UTC

Votals:

DethStalker (3): #HBC | YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog
dimochka (1): dimochka
freezeblade (1): SDK
SDK (2): Gopher of Pern, Sir Gabriel
LaserGuy (1): Znirk
Znirk (2): BoomFrog, jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle (2): Sabrar, bessie

Anyone not listed is not voting (or I missed it). 24-hour extension granted. New deadline: Wednesday evening.

Prod sent for Znirk.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 8:07 pm UTC

I said I’d have a go at flowery language today but since I haven’t had the time to do a proper read of everyone I’m going to focus on that rather than the prose.

Well, as usual, this took me way longer than expected.

Sabrar: The ‘lynch DethStalker to get an advantage by the time we’re at lylo’ thing was strange. Other than that Sabrar is active and engaging people. But he’s like that when he’s scum.

This is Sabrars original post:
Sabrar wrote:On a related note: I'll be heartily considering to lynch DethStalker on D2 for balance reasons if daystart votals will once more contain an additional vote on him, as he's a complete liability in LYLO situations if Town, therefore I do not think that is the case. OTOH don't think that scum would be outed so easily as well, so thoughts welcome on this matter.


The first sentence is confusing me. The bolded part is coherent and is saying ‘I want to lynch DethStalker D2 because he’s a liability if town. This is how I first read it and I don’t agree with that because it seems like Sabrar is advocating a town lynch for balance reasons. The italic bit on the other hand seems to say Sabrar thinks Dethstalker can’t be town because that ability (always an extra vote on DethStalker) is a liability to town. His OTOH points out that this doesn’t make sense as it means scum wouldn’t be outed by the mod like that.

[I’m reading through the posts by player and I notice jimbob has pointed this out as well.]

So, adressing all of that: Sabrar, I don’t think the +1 vote on DethStalker implies anything about his alignment and I don’t think balance is a reason to lynch DethStalker over a better scum read D2.

As others have said, you’re better at logic than this.

Slightly scummy.

Znirk: low content, nothing pings me about that single post. Except maybe the madge-bessie mixup. Neutral for now but I expect more content.

Freezeblade: Back from the weekend now and busy preparing some content I hope?

SDK: I’m not sure what to make of his bessie=town claim. I’m trying to figure out who would gain from this.

If true (bessie is town, SDK has confirmation):
scum!SDK: Gets townie points? Pointing out a target for the other scum team so the kills get spread?
town!SDK: after a sacrificial lynching of SDK, there is a confirmed townie.
indie!SDK: could be wincon related. But something like lyncher (for bessie) seems unlikely as town might be inclined to lynch SDK for the confirmation of bessie. And as was pointed out by someone, if the lyncher requires their target to be actually lynched rather than NK’d this makes no sense.

If false (SDK does not have confirmation that bessie is town):
scum!SDK: sort of has confirmation anyway (at least that she's not aligned with him) so the above strategy would work here as well.
town!SDK: trying to draw multiple kills one one target? Maybe in combination with protection?
indie!SDK: could be anything

I still don't know what to make of it.

SirGabriel: I liked his call on Gopher about claiming vote manipulation powers. But it’s clumsy for an experienced player not to be able to think of a few roles that can reveal or imply the townieness of another player. I’m thinking slightly scummy.
SirGabriel wrote:If SDK were Guardian Angel, why would he claim to have a scummy-looking role? It was that comment, and not merely his claim to know bessie's alignment, that has left me confused about his true role.

That makes more sense. -> townie

Gopher of Pern: his question about vote manipulation is suspicious and I'm not happy with the later explanation later.

This is the original quote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Sixthly, two scum factions may be in play. There are thankfully no cults in the game (according to rule 12). The fun will be in voting mechanics. So I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them. Scum may be able to manipulate them as well, but as the lynch is town's best (maybe only) way to kill scum, more open information about it would be better.


Here he doubles down
Gopher of Pern wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them.

That sounds like a terrible idea. That would basically be telling scum who will be most dangerous to them in endgame. A stitch in time saves nine.

Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?


I don't deny that it could help scum. But it could help town more. After all, if scum go after the people who have vote manipulations, it leaves the docs/cops/vigs alive. Although, it is not specified in the game setup if there are vanilla town.



This is the backtrack:
Gopher of Pern wrote:My comment about the vote mechanics was mainly about the one or two visible vote manipulations: dethstalker having an extra vote on them, and bessie having an automatic vote on me.

Wouldn't it be better for town to know the details of them?
Is dethstalker simply a guilty looking townie who has 1 automatic vote on them? Or does someone have a secret vote on them?
Does bessie get an automatic vote on me? Is she a compulsive voter? Can she choose to change her vote?



Yeah, I don't believe it was only about those two.
Gopher is reading DethStalker as newbie town here

Which doesn’t really make sense to me. As a newbie town I’d expect DethStalker to listen to the requests for plain speach. If DethStalker flips scum, Gopher might be his buddy.
On the scummy side.

Madge: I can’t tell much from that one big post, which is mostly agreeing with the consensus on a number of topics. If I wasn’t reading a lot of people as scummy already I’d call Madge lurker scum. Neutral

BoomFrog: Good call here[url] [url=http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4197578#p4197578]here. I read Znirk’s comment thinking ‘good point’, then BoomFrog comes in with a nice counterpoint. Good counterpoints get townie points.
Also I love these lines:
BoomFrog wrote:Your betrothed must be enchanted with your dexterous lips
Able to disagree on one side while agreeing from the other.


DethStalker: I don’t understand a word they’re saying. Not even the plain english bits. The only thing I think I got out of their posts is they probably got ‘hated’ as one of their character traits and this might be why they have an extra vote. [oh, bard noticed this too] Bessie’s read of newbie scum makes sense. As I said above I’m not buying newbie town, I’d expect newbie town to be more responsive to questions. Then again, I’d expect newbie scum to be more responsive to questions than DethStalker. Scummy

@DethStalker: please answer every question that people have asked you this game (even the ones you may have already answered).

Dimochka: I like the roleplaying :) nearly 4 days of looking in the mirror, I bet you think this play is about you. Overall a similar read to Znirk: one decent post. But dimochka’s post is better than Znirks. Neutral leaning town.

Bessie: I like this[url] [url=http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4197887#p4197887]thistownie post engaging a bunch of people. Townie

Jimbobmacdoodle: Jimbob’s analysis of DethStalker’s initial vote doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. He does point out the flaws in Sabrar’s logic concerning the ‘lynch DethStalker D2’ strategy. As I said before, I like counterpoints. On the townie side.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG: I feel like YOLO has a unique playstyle that’s hard to read (and matches his name). Nothing’s pinging me as scummy so he’s on the townier side of my list.

LaserGuy: There’s definitely some vote shenanigans going on with LaserGuy, which I think I’ve figured out. LaserGuy sort of feels scummy, but he’s been scum in the only two games he played so far, so perhaps he’s just feeling like LaserGuy and I’m associating that with scumminess? I don’t agree with some other people’s reasons for calling LaserGuy scummy. I’d like to see a reads list and/or a town to scum from LaserGuy. Scummy side of neutral

DGames | Bard: Low on content but nothing is pinging me as scummy. The weekend’s over so I’m expecting some content.


Town to scum:

plytho
bessie
BoomFrog
SirGabriel
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
dimochka
jimbobmacdoodle
DGames | Bard
SDK
freezeblade
Znirk
LaserGuy
Madge
Sabrar
Gopher of Pern
DethStalker
he him his

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 8:11 pm UTC

Ugh, messed up my urls. Well, at least I'm caught up now. Let me know if I missed something. Especially near the bottom of the list as I was losing my concentration by the end.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Mon May 15, 2017 8:21 pm UTC

@mpolo: BoomFrog is listed twice on your most recent vote totals.

bessie wrote:It’s one thing to acknowledge SDK’s claim, what I find suspicious is that you also pointed out that I’m the obvious NK target. Are you trying to communicate something to a possible second scum faction, like hey bro which of us should bump her off?


Confirmed town is always an obvious NK target. Were I scum, this is hardly a revelation I would need to be sharing.

bessie wrote:You had no reason to be voting for Znirk, unless you really didn’t like his confirmation post. And I feel I was justified in requesting the mod confirm the votals, because of the “I hope that’s right…” he added at the end.


As I said earlier:
LaserGuy wrote:I feel it important to let everyone know that I will case many votes and all votes I cast are serious. But some are more serious than others.

The vote on Znirk was of the former kind. I did not have a problem with your asking the mod to confirm the vote totals. I do find Sabrar's request for further clarification to be inappropriate, much as you no doubt would have had he asked for mod clarification on the nature of your vote on Gopher.

SDK wrote:I have played but one game with you, my lord, in which both of us were villains. Where do you get the impression that I don't share Day 1? I believe that I am usually more open about my intentions and abilities than most in the early game, perhaps because I am one of few who are willing to speak confidently on my opinions. I will admit that sometimes I am a playful thing, but it's rare that I continue to lie throughout the Day.


When did I suggest you were lying? But, yes, I have seen some of your earlier works as well.

SDK wrote:I will say this, if it puts your mind at ease: My role PM does not explicitly state that bessie is town. My role interacts with bessie in a way that points to her being town as very likely.

Normally that sort of thing is best left alone, I agree. The particular circumstances surrounding my attachment to bessie makes revealing it early better. I think. I don't regret it yet, at least. If bessie dies tonight, it will be me to blame, but it's still just one townie among many. Confirmed or not, this is for the best.


Is that so? I must confess, that would seem to quite directly contradict your claim herein. There is a rather large difference between claiming someone is confirmed as town in your PM, and claiming that your PM suggests that individual may be town. In neither case do I imagine it being particularly beneficial to town to make such a claim. But I am of a mind of a particular explanation to this problem. Perhaps a bit of mischief is in order to learn ourselves the truth.

Vote bessie

On to other matters, let us consider the players.

BoomFrog - Content is light, but I do not see anything untoward at this time. I find his poetry most enjoyable, if nothing else. I do not believe that such sweet words could come from a foul heart. Likely town.

DethStalker - The soul of unreason. I think enough words about him have been said considering what little he has provided. My only misgiving is that I hear the rumblings of an approaching wagon, one which, perhaps, is being guided by nefarious hands in hopes of misdirecting us from more dangerous targets.

DGames - I hope no offense is taken here, but I feel his content thus far feels very much like newbie town. Given that he is indeed an experienced fellow of Sir YOLO, my read must be misplaced. For the moment, I mark him as town, but would be very interested to hear some more detailed reads. I hope that not all fellows from your where are as laconic as Sir YOLO and his compatriots have been at times.

dimockha - Minimal content until today. I am curious about the meaning of this comment in his most recent post.
Vote GoP because he's a terrible father.

Unlike some of the other lurky players, dimochka at least made a solid effort to engage the thread and report reads on his return. Neutral pending more content.

freezeblade - Minimal content until today. I am troubled by the fact that given his fairly extended absence from the game, the first post upon his return is this one, where he muses vaguely about the setup. Considering that we are nearing the twilight of D1, this is surely cannot not the most important matter that you wish to raise upon your return to play. Leaning scum.

Gopher of Pern - The focus on voting mechanics was inappropriate for a townie, but my gut read is that he was just misguided here. I think he's likely town, mostly on meta at this point.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG - I am pleased to see that YOLO is more engaged with the early stages of the game than our prior encounter. I feel like there is a genuine effort being made to figure things out. Hopefully he will be able to most more detailed content before Day's end, but I see no reason to doubt towniness at this point in time.

jimbobmacdoodle - jimbob has probably been producing more content than anybody else so far. The quality of said content is somewhat mixed, however. There are lots of problems with this post, that have been discussed at some length. His defense of this content is little better, for the most part. There is a bit of defensiveness in some of his posts that I find reminiscent of his D1 of last game, though not nearly as bad here. Leaning scummy.

Madge - Absent for much of D1. I seem to recall from an earlier game that Madge has a reputation for low content D1 on the whole. Only one real post with content, and, much like freezeblade, I am struck by how little content is actually provided here upon her return, and which topics in particular are of interest. A third of the post is fluff. A third is stating how she will not speculate on voting powers or kills. The final third is a repetition of some earlier arguments re: SDK/bessie, DethStalker and SirGabriel. Are these really the most important things that you need to address at this stage of D1? Who is town? Who is scum? This post feels rather active lurky and does not reflect well on Madge. Leaning scum.

plytho - Light content for IRL reasons. Feels like plytho so far. Will reserve judgment until I see more content.

Sabrar - So far, Sabrar has been producing quality content and has been scumhunting consistently. I do not agree necessarily with his opinion on a policy lynch of DethStalker, but I think his reasoning is essentially townie. Frankly, given the dearth of content from DethStalker, I find it doubtful that this situation will ever be relevant. He has been placing some most excellent pressure on jimbob, but is not losing focus on the remainder of the game. His town-to-scum list is very questionable, however:
Sabrar wrote:bessie
freezeblade
Madge
dimochka
plytho
BoomFrog
Gopher of Pern
Bard - neutral line is here
SirGabriel
YOLOSWAG
Znirk
LaserGuy
jimbobmacdoodle
SCUM

At the time of this posting, dimochka had two posts with no content. Freezeblade had four posts with little-to-no content. Madge had one post with no content. plytho and BoomFrog have some content, but fairly minimal. In Sabrar's reading, lurkers are town, and nearly all active players are reported as scummy. Most bizarre. Do you truly have no town reads on any of the players who actually have content, save bessie (who also had light content at the time) and perhaps GoP? Slight scum lean.

bessie - No comment at this time.
SDK - No comment at this time.

SirGabriel - Content looks okay. Both this post and this post look very townie to me. Town-to-scum list seems reasonable. Likely town.

Znirk - Not enough content to really comment at this point. I'll say neutral for now because at least his one useful post was a decent reads list.

Ninja'd by plytho. Will update my read on him later.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

plytho wrote:So, adressing all of that: Sabrar, I don’t think the +1 vote on DethStalker implies anything about his alignment and I don’t think balance is a reason to lynch DethStalker over a better scum read D2.
Getting tired of repeating myself. Nowhere did I say that I want to lynch DethStalker over a better scum-read. I'm not a native English speaker but I believe there's a big difference between considering to do something and actually doing it. And no, this is not me 'backtracking' on my opinion.
Why don't you address the actual situation itself, rather than only talking how I presented my thoughts? Don't you agree with my assessment that DethStalker is a liability with all else being equal? Do I need to point to the MafiaScum page where they talk about policy lynching 'Hated' characters?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 8:32 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:At the time of this posting, dimochka had two posts with no content. Freezeblade had four posts with little-to-no content. Madge had one post with no content. plytho and BoomFrog have some content, but fairly minimal. In Sabrar's reading, lurkers are town, and nearly all active players are reported as scummy. Most bizarre. Do you truly have no town reads on any of the players who actually have content, save bessie (who also had light content at the time) and perhaps GoP?
Soulreads should not be rationalized, lest they lose their meaning. But you may ask yourself what some of these lurkers have in common apart from this designation.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon May 15, 2017 8:37 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog, please could you further explain the scummy reads you have of LaserGuy, myself and Znirk, with a little more detail.

In a past life I might have erred so grievously,
That a villain could learn from me to better himself and his seeming.
To be outwitted by ones own wit is the most disastrous of fates.
Even in the next life I wouldn't chance to meet that bitter end again.

Aside, you agree with my ill view of Sir LaserGuy and Znirk,
yet you question me to my motives.
Your betrothed must be enchanted with your dexterous lips
Able to disagree on one side while agreeing from the other.
I don't like players throwing out scum-reads on anybody without actually explaining them. It's really easy for scum to throw out such reads on people if they don't have to give their reasoning behind them. What little you said on the points for LaserGuy and Znirk also confused me, hence why I wanted information in particular. Just because I have a reason for finding them scummy doesn't mean you do, or if you do, you may not share the same reason with me. Speaking of lack of reasoning behind scummy opinions...

@Ninja!LaserGuy, you have cast an unsubstantiated vote with zero reasoning on our dear bessie. Why?

SirGabriel's list on its own is even less helpful than BoomFrog's. I look forward to his reasoning, as a number of his placements differ significantly from my own.

Unless bessie is talking about my points re. not lynching DethStalker just because of the mysterious vote sitting on him, I don't see where I'm defending DethStalker.

I like plytho's recent post, but I find it interesting that he doesn't comment on SDK's latest claim that he doesn't actually have concrete confirmation of bessie's townieness.

Speaking of SDK's change of claim, it doesn't match what he originally said:
SDK originally wrote:Are you asking this because bessie is town? Because she is. Good to know that someone else got that confirmation in their role PM too.
SDK more recently wrote:I will say this, if it puts your mind at ease: My role PM does not explicitly state that bessie is town. My role interacts with bessie in a way that points to her being town as very likely.
He starts off saying that he got confirmation that bessie is town, yet is now saying that it is only very likely that she is town. There's a big difference between the two, especially as he also said in that more recent post that he had been entirely honest so far (with the exception of the comment on Sabrar receiving confirmation about bessie). Ninja'ed by LaserGuy with basically the same point.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 15, 2017 8:55 pm UTC

plytho wrote:If I wasn’t reading a lot of people as scummy already I’d call Madge lurker scum. Neutral

plytho wrote:I’d like to see a reads list and/or a town to scum from LaserGuy. Scummy side of neutral

plytho wrote:Town to scum:

plytho
bessie
BoomFrog
SirGabriel
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
dimochka
jimbobmacdoodle
DGames | Bard
SDK
freezeblade
Znirk
LaserGuy
Madge
Sabrar
Gopher of Pern
DethStalker

You have exactly 3 players below Madge who you call Neutral. You have LaserGuy above her, whom you call on the scummier side of neutral.
1. Why is LaserGuy above Madge?
2. How is 3 (4 including LaserGuy) 'a lot of people' when we have 16 players?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DethStalker » Mon May 15, 2017 9:27 pm UTC

I mean I am trying to be more active someone post all the questions that need answers plx.

I dont have enough time to do shakesperian-ish ill do it later.

BRB on Tuesday

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 9:34 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:So, adressing all of that: Sabrar, I don’t think the +1 vote on DethStalker implies anything about his alignment and I don’t think balance is a reason to lynch DethStalker over a better scum read D2.
Getting tired of repeating myself. Nowhere did I say that I want to lynch DethStalker over a better scum-read. I'm not a native English speaker but I believe there's a big difference between considering to do something and actually doing it. And no, this is not me 'backtracking' on my opinion.
Why don't you address the actual situation itself, rather than only talking how I presented my thoughts? Don't you agree with my assessment that DethStalker is a liability with all else being equal? Do I need to point to the MafiaScum page where they talk about policy lynching 'Hated' characters?


I agree that considering is different from actually doing but 'heartily' considering is also different from just considering. How you present your thoughts is relevant. I'm not a native English speaker either and I don't understand what you mean exactly when you say 'DethStalker is a liability with all else being equal'. I'm also not a native MafiaScummer so I'd appreciate it if you could point me to that page (I can't seem to find it on my own :oops: ).

Sabrar wrote:You have exactly 3 players below Madge who you call Neutral. You have LaserGuy above her, whom you call on the scummier side of neutral.
1. Why is LaserGuy above Madge?
2. How is 3 (4 including LaserGuy) 'a lot of people' when we have 16 players?

This is a result of writing that post over the entire day and not properly checking. I was going through the players one by one in the order you can see in the post. When I was reading Madge she was the 7th player at that point I was reading Gopher, SirG and you as scum with SDK as a wild card so I was at 4 scum out of 6 and I expected some later reads to turn up scummy as well. I later changed my mind about SirG. When I was making my town to scum list I was reading what I had for Madge and felt she also belonged near the scummy side of neutral.

That said, these are D1 reads and my confidence in them is low.
he him his

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Mon May 15, 2017 9:43 pm UTC

(I wrote this post five hours ago, but apparently it never posted. I'll catch up in a minute.)

Madge wrote:I think SDK made a good point about his role PM - my role PM looks good but my character is not the greatest, I hope it doesn't make any of you think any less of me!

Madge, I think I asked about this before, but didn't get an answer. Why did you post this? I don't want to know your role, but why were you so concerned that you felt the need to follow me into the streets?

TOWN
bessie - in addition to what I've personally received, she's feeling good overall. Her ignoring my claim felt odd, but when she finally explained it, it felt too good.
Gopher of Pern - Bad ideas with good intentions bear the mark of innocence.
jimbobmacdoodle - I see nothing concerning here. Fight with Sabrar and a decently confused reads list that mirrors my own points towards town.
YOLOSWAG - Other than your comment on LaserGuy/GoP and your vote for DethStalker, you haven't really talked much about who is scum. Any other leads there?
Bard - Who do you think is scum?

BoomFrog - You later explained your vote for Znirk, but it seems you are targeting people with little content. Why is that?
plytho - Need more.
freezeblade - Looking forward to that catchup.
DethStalker - ???
Dimochka - Nothing to say, as nothing has been said.
Znirk - Shrug.
Madge - Twitch.
SirGabriel

LaserGuy - He's talked about basically nothing other than me - and came down on the wrong side of the fence for the wrong reasons there.
SCUM


That is way too many neutrals. Still need to slot Sabrar in there, but we need to get the bulk of this game posting more.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 9:47 pm UTC

DethStalker wrote:I mean I am trying to be more active someone post all the questions that need answers plx.

I dont have enough time to do shakesperian-ish ill do it later.

BRB on Tuesday


These are of the top of my head to get you started, but you are expected to make an effort in these games so you'll have to find the rest yourself.

1. Not really a question but more of a request people have is for you to stop talking shakespearian-ish because it's confusing everyone. Please use plain English only so we can understand everything you're saying.

2. What is your mafia experience? Is this your first game? How many games have you played?

3. What's your opinion on Gopher of Pern who thinks you're town? Do you think he's town?

4. Do you have any questions? Is anything confusing you so far?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Mon May 15, 2017 9:53 pm UTC

DethStalker wrote:I mean I am trying to be more active someone post all the questions that need answers plx.

I dont have enough time to do shakesperian-ish ill do it later.

BRB on Tuesday


Let us start from the beginning...

Have you ever played Mafia before?
Do you understand what the objective of the game is, at all?
Do you understand what sort of content you are expected to produce?
Do you understand why you are expected to produce it?
Do you understand what people mean when they are asking you to do be active?
Are you reading the thread?
Do you see the difference between the type of posts that you are writing and the type of posts that everyone else is writing?

It is not our responsibility to tell you what questions you should answer. You should be reading the thread and responding in productive ways, answering questions asked of you, commenting on things you find interesting or problematic, or asking questions of your own. You may wish to start by reading the newbie guide to mafia if you aren't familiar with these concepts.

Frankly, at this point I feel you should be considering exiting the game and asking for a replacement if you aren't able to make a serious contribution by the end of game day. I feel bad about saying this, especially if you are a new player, but thus far you haven't made any effort to contribute to or engage in the game, and it's already been nearly a week. If you were unsure or confused about what you are supposed to do, you should have said this upfront, especially when prompted to on several occasions, and people would have been more than happy to help you along.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 pm UTC

Unfortunately, I got called into work today, and I'm busy most of tomorrow and Wednesday morning, so it doesn't look like I'll be able to get a detailed analysis post in until D2. I will likely have some free time during my shift tonight if anyone has specific questions for me, but I won't have access to a computer so I'll have to stick to phone posting.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Mon May 15, 2017 10:23 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Unless bessie is talking about my points re. not lynching DethStalker just because of the mysterious vote sitting on him, I don't see where I'm defending DethStalker.

I like plytho's recent post, but I find it interesting that he doesn't comment on SDK's latest claim that he doesn't actually have concrete confirmation of bessie's townieness.


I think bessie was trying to get a response out of DethStalker rather than you. I for one don't see the difference between your 'defense' of DethStalker and my defense of 'a course of action.

As for SDK's recent post. That might have been posted after I wrote my read and/or I might not have thought it made a big difference. But I'll revisit it and see if it changes my mind.
he him his

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Mon May 15, 2017 11:59 pm UTC

I'll be able to take a better look tomorrow but quick hits off my phone:

DethStalker can go. He has been given several opportunities to contribute now. I feel kind of bad lynching a new player, but his refusal to contribute thus far....I don't understand it. If I was newbie town and given straightforward questions, I would try. I'm thinking it's possible that he is stalling and not giving out information to protect himself.

Laserguy and GoP both spent a loooooot of time/post content discussing the setup early. I remember seeing a lot of their post volume having to do with it. I usually see at least one scum do this on crazy setups and my impression was that they were the ones who spent the most time on it. I admit though, I DO have pause towards GoP in this case and am currently leaning towards Laser. GoP I know hosted the Crossfire game; this shows me he has a mind for setups. His focus on it here may just be a GoPtell, I'm wondering if anyone who has played with him more has any thoughts as to whether he's the type to hone in on setup information.

Next, freezeblade, Madge, and Znirk are out in nullsville; I'm hoping they can lay down some stances before Day's end.

I'm seriously thinking we may just have to wagon people relentlessly tomorrow to get some life into this game.

Also, I wanted to tell you guys to hold Bard accountable. Just some info from someone's familiar with him: He's a competent player and should have enough to push a slot or two by now. I just want those who are unfamiliar with him to know that he is capable and you should not hesitate to play hardball with him or let him play dumb.

@Bard

What's going on? Deadline's in 2 days, I imagine you have something by now.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 am UTC

I really did not like Laserguy's characterization of Boomfrog. Likely townie due to nice prose? Hardly a reason to think town.

Plytho, do you really think if dethstalker was my scumbuddy I'd defend him like this? I'd be more likely to do something like bessie, try to coach them into better play. Which, if dethstalker does get lynched and ends up being scum, will be very informative.

Bit suspicious of your list as well plytho. You have Boomfrog, SirGabriel and YOLO near the top of your list, when I'm reading them as neutral at best. Why do you think they are so townie?

Ninja'd by YOLO:
Honestly, I usually try not to spend a lot of time on setup speculation. But I tend to respond to questions asked of me, so if they are about setup spec, I will answer about setup spec. But that's coming from me, so take it with a grain of salt.

Interesting what you say about Bard. You could be telling the truth, and they are scum hiding behind their newness to these forums, or you could be scum, trying to get a townie lynched due to your knowledge of them as a player.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 16, 2017 12:15 am UTC

SDK wrote:BoomFrog - You later explained your vote for Znirk, but it seems you are targeting people with little content. Why is that?

I think you know, but for GoP's benefit I will reveal,
I won't be content until I have more of it.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DGames | Bard » Tue May 16, 2017 4:06 am UTC

Hey guys, sorry, I've been a busy bee. I finally got back on not too long ago to check out the thread, let it sink in for a bit while eating a home-made steak burrito (yum), and now I'm all ready.

I have definitely been playing a little safe as I am new to the general populace here; I don't want to step on the toes of lions in my newness, which was a mistake I made when I first came into DGames. However, since I have been asked, I will begin to jump into the nitty gritty of things with a fuller analysis and a direction to move forward in. Time to get our hands dirty, shall we?

My opinion on Dethstalker is that he is certainly new to mafia. While this normally doesn't have a huge bearing on things (new players are always good for the game), I would not be opposed to his lynch today considering what appears to be a harsh barrier of communication between him and the rest of the roster, as well as being a generally empty slot with a lack of fruitful content. So far, I can't really make heads or tails of his approach and what it means in terms of connections to the rest of the roster. Additionally, while it's not a generally great idea to lynch anyone on policy, he is potentially a time bomb if he is Town.

My opinion on Dethstalker can change if he begins to communicate more appropriately and start givings out reads on people he believes to be evil. Unless this happens, I'm afraid he may have to be the de facto lynch. Hopefully he answers questions addressed to him in a timely manner!

bessie wrote:
DGames | Bard wrote:Forgive me, as I am new here, and so I am still ascertaining the qualities of this stage; where art thy proof of Bessie's innocence?
Wine warning. Tis a jest at my expense, for they refer to my infamous townie meta. I’m always town. I’ve played not scum for well over a year. I’ve been playing mafia for about three and a half years, on this stage only, and I played for about fourteen months before I was mafia. Methinks I’ve been mafia four times ever, and two of them were as replacements. There was a similar joke reference to freezeblade’s scummy meta; I think he had a ten game streak.

I enjoyed this wine and wish to pair it with cheese, but I can't come up with a bad joke on the spot for the life of me. Or maybe I just did, oh dear. Either way, I thanketh thee for thy explanation on this matter.

Gopher of Pern wrote: The fun will be in voting mechanics. So I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them. Scum may be able to manipulate them as well, but as the lynch is town's best (maybe only) way to kill scum, more open information about it would be better.
Methinks thou art role fishing. As pointed out by others, this would probably give more information to scum. But it does make me think we all need to be very careful with our votes, since we do not know what powers are in play. And as was implied by our all-powerful director, an accidental hammer is possible.


I agree with this. Most of the content Gopher has put out seems to be more fixated on roles and how they operate as opposed to having a greater focus on connections and reads, etc.

I don't want to say that most of his content is predominantly fluff, but it would require a second look. I'll develop this point more as I progress further down all these posts I need to get through.
bessie wrote:
DethStalker wrote:Thou, shall I say? Questions? Thy, hated, is one of all. Hated, hated I say!
I do not understand what you are attempting to communicate. Is hated an aspect of your role? If it is, it does not seem to me very townie.


Mmm, I'm not so sure how I feel about this sentiment. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the thought process here, but you imply that being hated =/= townie, but I have been in several games where a townie has been hated but had some kind of redeeming quality to make up for it. Is being 'hated' a generally scummy quality to have on xkcd?

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:I'm V/LA til Tuesday aftednoon y'all. I might be able to get in earlier but no promises.

Dethstalker can still go. I also feel like there's a scum between GoP/Laser.


Can you elaborate further on your GoP/Laser reads? I know you're more of a man of action if it can be helped, so a few sentences should suffice. ;)

LaserGuy wrote:
DGames - I hope no offense is taken here, but I feel his content thus far feels very much like newbie town. Given that he is indeed an experienced fellow of Sir YOLO, my read must be misplaced. For the moment, I mark him as town, but would be very interested to hear some more detailed reads. I hope that not all fellows from your where are as laconic as Sir YOLO and his compatriots have been at times.


My King! I would not dare quarrel with thee, but I will say that I am familiar with the workings of Mafia. I am no master; certainly a student of the game, but my blade is sharp enough to make a bodkin turn its tail.

SDK wrote:Bard - Who do you think is scum?


Hrmmm. I'm still trying to get a feel for all the players here; it's exciting to land myself in an entirely new group of people whom I am unfamiliar with, but it also makes me feel somewhat uncertain as to which way they lean with any sense of certainty.

For example, your claim regarding bessie is a bold one. It was unnecessary albeit a topic of contention for early discussion, which was beneficial to the Town. Doubling down on the information and maintaining your claim makes me question the initial intent. You are not being transparent in this regard, and thus I have difficulty trusting the hand that holds the sword. Do I find it explicitly scummy? I would have a better idea if we were better acquainted, perhaps.

For the time being, I am holding my breath in anticipation as the Act unfolds in your regard until I have a firmer grasp of your direction. Neutral, not necessarily scummy, perhaps anti-town.

Looking down the list, the players that stick out to me are Gopher, Dethstalker, and the inactives. I concede I may have to reread Gopher

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:I'll be able to take a better look tomorrow but quick hits off my phone:

DethStalker can go. He has been given several opportunities to contribute now. I feel kind of bad lynching a new player, but his refusal to contribute thus far....I don't understand it. If I was newbie town and given straightforward questions, I would try. I'm thinking it's possible that he is stalling and not giving out information to protect himself.

Laserguy and GoP both spent a loooooot of time/post content discussing the setup early. I remember seeing a lot of their post volume having to do with it. I usually see at least one scum do this on crazy setups and my impression was that they were the ones who spent the most time on it. I admit though, I DO have pause towards GoP in this case and am currently leaning towards Laser. GoP I know hosted the Crossfire game; this shows me he has a mind for setups. His focus on it here may just be a GoPtell, I'm wondering if anyone who has played with him more has any thoughts as to whether he's the type to hone in on setup information.


I agree regarding Dethstalker, I do not agree regarding Laserguy; he is my King, after all. I see Gopher the way you see him, however I'm leaning more towards scum and don't necessarily buy the excuse you gave him for set up speculation. I think Laserguy has contributed a lot more with fuller reads.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Also, I wanted to tell you guys to hold Bard accountable. Just some info from someone's familiar with him: He's a competent player and should have enough to push a slot or two by now. I just want those who are unfamiliar with him to know that he is capable and you should not hesitate to play hardball with him or let him play dumb.

@Bard

What's going on? Deadline's in 2 days, I imagine you have something by now.


Hrmm, not sure I appreciate the slight instilling of FUD, my good sir! I DID say I was busy on weekends, didn't I? Why do I feel you are perhaps keeping me at an arm's distance? It has been a while since we last played together, so I can't say with certainty what happened in our last roundabout that may be playing a part in it.

Anyway, I'm currently leaning towards GoP and Dethstalker as lynch candidates for this day phase. Regarding Gopher:

Outside of mechanics speculation, phishing, etc., there are tidbits of his posts that appear too fluffy to me and seem to lack strong Town intent. He begins to develop his posts more as the thread progresses in response to pushes that he is too focused on set up speculation, but some tidbits seem off to me. Here's a portion of one of his posts as an example:

Gopher of Pern wrote:Interesting what you say about Bard. You could be telling the truth, and they are scum hiding behind their newness to these forums, or you could be scum, trying to get a townie lynched due to your knowledge of them as a player.


I do not see what Gopher is attempting to ascertain from Yoloswag with this line of dialogue. He presents two goblets filled with a delicious pinot noir, but I'm not sure what he is trying to achieve. Perhaps I am misreading him, but I sense a lack of interest in scum hunting and perhaps more of an interest in appearing preoccupied.

I also think it's a stretch for him to say Dethstalker is noob town, although I'm also of the opinion that it is a stretch to say that Dethstalker is noob scum at this juncture on the premise that everything he has said so far seems to indicate that he is someone who isn't really sure how to play the game.

I can't be too certain though regarding Gopher since I am not familiar with his slot, but that's the way I'm leaning for the time being.

Vote: Gopher of Pern

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DGames | Bard » Tue May 16, 2017 4:18 am UTC

@Gopher of Pern

Engarde, King Leer! You have incurred the imminent wrath of my blade, and it will not be sheathed quietly. It's time to duel!

*throws gauntlet at Gopher*

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Tue May 16, 2017 5:08 am UTC

Votals

In the previous Votals, I had not deleted BoomFrog's vote for Znirk, even though he clearly unvoted correctly. Sorry.

DethStalker (3): #HBC | YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog
Gopher of Pern (1): DGames | Bard
dimochka (1): dimochka
freezeblade (1): SDK
SDK (2): Gopher of Pern, SirGabriel
LaserGuy (1): Znirk
Znirk (1): jimbobmacdoodle
jimbobmacdoodle (2): Sabrar, bessie
bessie (1): LaserGuy
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 16, 2017 5:23 am UTC

I apologise. I do love me some wine. It's so delicious, and so...thought provoking, you know?

Just to clarify, are you saying that you're challenging me to a duel? You would dare to threaten me? You, sir, are misguided, and your actions are that of a fool.

Boomfrog, you have provided extremely little in what you have said. I'm not even sure what you provided for my benefit. Your constant avoiding of matters on import, has me thinking you are hiding something.

Unvote
Vote: Boomfrog
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 16, 2017 5:42 am UTC

plytho wrote:I agree that considering is different from actually doing but 'heartily' considering is also different from just considering. How you present your thoughts is relevant. I'm not a native English speaker either and I don't understand what you mean exactly when you say 'DethStalker is a liability with all else being equal'. I'm also not a native MafiaScummer so I'd appreciate it if you could point me to that page

- 'heartily' came from post restriction, you can disregard it (or you know, not, if you think it has relevance)
- check back the example I showed jimbob, lynching a Hated player is mechanically correct if both players are found equally scummy
- MafiaScum page, last two paragraphs contain the most relevant parts (note: 'Hated' and having an additional vote on you are not 100% the same but very close so that these mechanics also apply)

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bessie
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Tue May 16, 2017 6:20 am UTC

Quick responses to today’s content. I should have time for proper reads tomorrow after work.

dimochka wrote:US folks - I didn't realize that the timer was based on time in Germany, and the current deadline is noon EST / 9am PST tomorrow (and I assume the time will remain the same while the day may be pushed out). Just wanted to point it out.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I totally missed this when I checked over the weekend and had the time wrong (I thought I was looking at 6pm Pacific).

SDK wrote: If bessie dies tonight, it will be me to blame, but it's still just one townie among many. Confirmed or not, this is for the best.
Thanks I love you too brother dearest.

dimochka wrote:- Yoloswag accepted the "bessie is town" argument much too easily. don't like it.
What I find interesting is those who so easily accepted SDK’s claim that I am town as truth, but would still label SDK scum.

dimochka wrote:- Vote GoP because he's a terrible father.
Cordelia, was this meant to be a serious vote?

dimochka wrote:- Note: I'm going to make a prediction that we have a 3-man regular scum team, and some possibly some kind of supernatural 2man team that may or may not be able to kill or communicate or something else.
Noting your note.

freezeblade wrote:SDK, for some reason, is pinging me much less this game than typically on D1, I don't know if that means they are more or less townie than normal, however.
This is the entirety of your player analysis for the whole week. How about some reads on the other fourteen participants in this game?

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:It’s one thing to acknowledge SDK’s claim, what I find suspicious is that you also pointed out that I’m the obvious NK target. Are you trying to communicate something to a possible second scum faction, like hey bro which of us should bump her off?


Confirmed town is always an obvious NK target. Were I scum, this is hardly a revelation I would need to be sharing.
Apologies. Guess I was wrong. You must be town because it's always such an obvious town-tell when someone says "would I be doing this if I were scum?"

plytho wrote:I think bessie was trying to get a response out of DethStalker rather than you. I for one don't see the difference between your 'defense' of DethStalker and my defense of 'a course of action.
I see a difference, but perhaps I am the only one.

DGames | Bard wrote:Mmm, I'm not so sure how I feel about this sentiment. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the thought process here, but you imply that being hated =/= townie, but I have been in several games where a townie has been hated but had some kind of redeeming quality to make up for it. Is being 'hated' a generally scummy quality to have on xkcd?
I've never seen it before, so my first thought was that Hated would be something scummy. I didn't even think to look it up until Sabrar said there was a MafiaScum entry. (Bard, I've been playing a few years but I don't play too often, so my experience is not necessarily representative of xkcd. Oh and glad you enjoyed the wine.)

I'll try to get some more content up between airport and work tomorrow morning so that there is enough time for responses. I encourage everyone to do the same.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Tue May 16, 2017 8:16 am UTC

plytho wrote:As for SDK's recent post. That might have been posted after I wrote my read and/or I might not have thought it made a big difference. But I'll revisit it and see if it changes my mind.


I did read it before I posted my reads list but it didn’t really change my opinion. I couldn’t really pin a read on SDK before he nuanced his language, still can’t after. I guess to me there’s not that much of a change between SDK claiming ‘confirmation’ in the first post and more nuanced ‘very likely indication’ in the later one.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Plytho, do you really think if dethstalker was my scumbuddy I'd defend him like this? I'd be more likely to do something like bessie, try to coach them into better play. Which, if dethstalker does get lynched and ends up being scum, will be very informative.


I really don’t see how you can read DethStalker as townie. Would you mind explaining that read?

As I don’t believe you’re actually reading him as townie I tried to figure out why you might call him townie. The one thing that remotely made sense to me was trying to let your buddy know you’re on his side. [realisation] Obviously if you were scumbuddies you’d already be aware of each other and there’d be no need to hint in thread :oops:
Now I don’t think you’re actual scumbuddies but I still don’t get what you’re trying to achieve by calling him townie.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Bit suspicious of your list as well plytho. You have Boomfrog, SirGabriel and YOLO near the top of your list, when I'm reading them as neutral at best. Why do you think they are so townie?


To me you’re scummy D1 if you’re either lurking or your posts have suspicious content. The three people you mention are not the most active but I feel most of the people that are more active than them are more suspicious. And I actually like the quality of their posts.
Obviously a town to scum is a relative comparison. I’d read these three as neutral if I had stronger town reads but I don’t at this point.


Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:I agree that considering is different from actually doing but 'heartily' considering is also different from just considering. How you present your thoughts is relevant. I'm not a native English speaker either and I don't understand what you mean exactly when you say 'DethStalker is a liability with all else being equal'. I'm also not a native MafiaScummer so I'd appreciate it if you could point me to that page

- 'heartily' came from post restriction, you can disregard it (or you know, not, if you think it has relevance)
- check back the example I showed jimbob, lynching a Hated player is mechanically correct if both players are found equally scummy
- MafiaScum page, last two paragraphs contain the most relevant parts (note: 'Hated' and having an additional vote on you are not 100% the same but very close so that these mechanics also apply)


- Your ‘heartily’ was what pinged me the most about your post. For me that made you sound overly enthousiastic for a DethStalker lynch, more than warranted by logic. The confusing sentence didn’t help. I might have to reevaluate.
- I fully agree with that.
- Thanks for the link.

Look, I accept your arguments. But I’m still not entirely convinced that your initial statement matches your later ones.
This:
Sabrar wrote:On a related note: I'll be heartily considering to lynch DethStalker on D2 for balance reasons if daystart votals will once more contain an additional vote on him, as he's a complete liability in LYLO situations if Town, therefore I do not think that is the case. OTOH don't think that scum would be outed so easily as well, so thoughts welcome on this matter.

Is not the same as this:
Sabrar wrote: lynching a Hated player is mechanically correct if both players are found equally scummy

This defense also pings me a bit as I feel D2 is not that far away.
Sabrar wrote: I said I would consider an action a long time away in the future and invited others to share their opinion before committing myself to anything rash.
This is probably the last I’ll say about this: I’m moving you to neutral for now as I’m sort of accepting your defense. I do have a niggling doubt remaining about your initial intentions so I’ll keep an eye on you.
he him his

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mpolo
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Tue May 16, 2017 8:53 am UTC

Since some people may have been confused: The deadline is based on GMT+1. However, the link provided should give you the exact number of hours until deadline, unless your time zone is set wrong on your computer, of course.
Image <-- Evil experiment

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SDK
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Tue May 16, 2017 3:10 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
SDK wrote:BoomFrog - You later explained your vote for Znirk, but it seems you are targeting people with little content. Why is that?

I think you know, but for GoP's benefit I will reveal,
I won't be content until I have more of it.

I'm not sure that will work with DethStalker.

Vote: LaserGuy
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