Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III (pregame)

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 11, 2017 4:17 pm UTC

*a-hem*
How now, my noble friend! since I came hither,
Which I can call but now, I have heard strange news.


[ninja here] Wait, sorry, it seems I have missed my queue! I just get so excited over this sort of Shakespearean drama, even if it's historical (especially if it's historical).
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 11, 2017 9:44 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I agree that the two votes at day start are interesting but I don't get what you mean by nefarious forces? Are you saying Dethstalker and Gopher deserve townie points for starting with votes on them? Also the votals don't say 'unknown' voted for Dethstalker but instead it says 'no votes', so it's not necessarily a vote from someone.


I feel that this may be indicative of a "mandatory voting" mechanic, meaning that the two votes are there (assigned initially randomly) because these players are required to be voting for someone at all times. I think I've seen this somewhere before on these forums, however not in exactly this form.

Ninja: methinks that dimochka may be laying their actor persona characteristic on a tad heavy. I'm not just saying that because I feel they got one of the "personality traits" that I submitted. What a Juicy piece of drama this play may end up being.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 11, 2017 10:01 pm UTC

plytho wrote:So you think bessie has to be voting for someone at all times and someone else has the same thing going on but their vote is hidden? (As opposed to DethStalker having a permanent vote on them.)


In the first case, yes. The second case, I view as equally possible.

I feel that it may work in the flavor, especially as my role PM hints at "supernatural powers" present in-game.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Fri May 12, 2017 11:33 pm UTC

Of note, for now and other weekends:

As I spend all weekdays in front of a screen for work, I tend to disconnect during weekends, and will likely not keep up during the weekend (including a low likelyhood of posts on a weekend). I play catch-up on Monday.

See you all on the other side, Monday!
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Mon May 15, 2017 5:17 pm UTC

A few thoughts about setup speculation by others:
bessie wrote:
mpolo wrote:If there is a jester in the game, a jester win would end the game.

This is not the answer I expected, and it makes me suspect there is not a jester in the game, because I can't see a mod putting in the work required to set up and run a game and having it end on D1.


Not the answer I expected either (I was expecting a "No comment"), but for what it's worth, I have seen jesters who end the game if lynched, on this forum (although If you pressed me, I would be unable to list which one without some searching though all the games).

That said, I'd say the likelihood of a jester, after that comment, is somewhere below 20% by my reckoning.

Another game with more than one scum team was Harry Potter? but again, that was a huge game, that was far from standard setup.

Someone mentioned how masons can possibly confirm someone as town, and I figured I should mention that on this forum, there is no guarantee of townyness of mason partners (see batmafia, as well as chairman maofia).

SDK, for some reason, is pinging me much less this game than typically on D1, I don't know if that means they are more or less townie than normal, however.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 16, 2017 6:04 pm UTC

Everyone: Unfortunately I have requested replacement on this game from mpolo, work has hit me like a ton of bricks, and I don't have the time to analyze this game the way it deserves.

If there is no available replacement, I will limp along and try my best, but either way I apologize to everyone.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri May 12, 2017 12:03 am UTC

Firstly, I would like to confirm that my role pm has indeed been read.

Secondly, Bessie, you scallywag! I demand you remove your vote at once!

Thirdly, Vote: SDK for beating me last game, and for revealing a known townie early in the game, or at least faking to.

Fourthly, all the thee's and thou's are going to get mighty annoying after awhile.

Fifthly, (Is that even a word?) as King Lear, you should all listen to me, as I am the King! Even having very little knowledge of the play, with my name as the title of the play, it must mean that I am the best King ever. So listen to me. Really.

Sixthly, two scum factions may be in play. There are thankfully no cults in the game (according to rule 12). The fun will be in voting mechanics. So I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them. Scum may be able to manipulate them as well, but as the lynch is town's best (maybe only) way to kill scum, more open information about it would be better.

Seventhly, I am finished. You may now all continue speaking.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri May 12, 2017 7:48 am UTC

SirGabriel wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them.

That sounds like a terrible idea. That would basically be telling scum who will be most dangerous to them in endgame. A stitch in time saves nine.

Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?


I don't deny that it could help scum. But it could help town more. After all, if scum go after the people who have vote manipulations, it leaves the docs/cops/vigs alive. Although, it is not specified in the game setup if there are vanilla town.

Are there any powerless roles in the game? i.e. Vanilla town, without any powers or abilities?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat May 13, 2017 12:19 am UTC

My comment about the vote mechanics was mainly about the one or two visible vote manipulations: dethstalker having an extra vote on them, and bessie having an automatic vote on me.

Wouldn't it be better for town to know the details of them?
Is dethstalker simply a guilty looking townie who has 1 automatic vote on them? Or does someone have a secret vote on them?
Does bessie get an automatic vote on me? Is she a compulsive voter? Can she choose to change her vote?

I think town would benefit from answers to these questions.

Scum + SK is more likely, but we cannot rule out two different scum factions either. 10/3/3 doesn't seem too unbalanced, depending on powers. Even if town mislynches twice, and scum hits town, its 4/3/3 after 2 nights, with scum having to worry more about each other. But I would probably favour 10/4/1/1, with SK and possibly lyncher or jester. 9/4/1/1/1, with one survivor instead might also be in the works.

Also, apologies to the mod for not voting on a separate line.

Laserguy, what would be the difference between 2 groups of 2 co-aligned scum, and a 4 man scum team? Sabrar already asked this question, but it seems you have ignored it.

jimbob seems to present some possibilities that are extremely unlikely (as Laserguy has pointed out). I agree than an automatic vote on dethstalker is the most likely, but unless dethstalker confirms one way or another, it's just conjecture. Also interesting to note, jimbob mentioned that mpolo explicitly said 9 people not voting, but mpolo didn't mention how many not voting in the latest votals. I'm not sure what to make of that.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat May 13, 2017 6:10 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Laserguy, what would be the difference between 2 groups of 2 co-aligned scum, and a 4 man scum team? Sabrar already asked this question, but it seems you have ignored it.


Apologies, I must have missed it. I was referring to a sort of arrangement where two scum teams have shared win conditions but do not have full knowledge of each other. For example two scum teams who had chat amongst their players but lacked chat between the teams or even lacked knowledge of each other's abilities or perhaps players. I don't remember the details because I only skimmed through that game when it was mentioned in Diablo, but I believe that the Scooby Doo game had a similar sort of arrangement.

4/3/3 is surely a losing position for town is it not? I suppose if towns lynches perfectly and scum repeatedly crossfire it may not be, but I think the odds of a town win in scenarios where they lack the majority needed to hold the lynch are very rare and essentially luck-based.


Of course it's going to be a losing proposition. Town should not have a good time if they lynch town twice in a row, and scum hit only town. But thats the worst possible scenario, and town still have the majority block there, so it is still winnable.

Boomfrog, any reason why you put yourself on the scummier side on your own list?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 15, 2017 12:22 am UTC

Re: Dethstalker, I doubt that they are scum. They seem like newbie town. While Sabrar's point is true, that they are a liability in the late game, I do not think that justifies an early lynching, especially over other, scummier, candidates. I think we have more to go on than that. But you should really make yourself clearer to understand. I have no idea what you said, and that's in the plain english version.

Jimbob posts his reads list. Lo and behold, everyone is scum! Well, not everyone, but a good half of the players are scum. I love how you say people have made no attempt to scumhunt, when you had not up until that post. What does scumhunting even mean early in day 1? Methinks you are looking for excuses for people to be scummy.

bessie, I did not respond, because I saw no need to. You voted for me before I even participated in the thread, before the game started. I'm assuming it's a restriction of yours, and you either have to vote for me, or you have to vote for someone, and you have yet to find someone you want to vote for. Either way, I don't see you seeing me as scummy (especially as you have mentioned no reasons for it), so I'll just let it be for now.

YOLO is being very similar to last game. Yes, you don't always have to give reasons, but if you never, we'll think you're just calling people scummy blind and not caring who gets lynched (i.e. SK)

Sabrar, I'm feeling good about. I do believe we are on the same team (for once). I do agree with them for the most part. I gotta keep an eye on my own bias though.

SirGabriel, there is also a princess role I think, who is simply a confirmed townie to everyone. Can easily be modified to only being confirmed to one or a few people. Hell, SDK could be pulling a double bluff, and he knows bessie is town, because they themselves are scum.

Not getting a good feeling for Boomfrog jumping on dethstalker.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 15, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Off the top of my head, jimbob, YOLO, and Boomfrog come to mind. Perhaps SDK as well.

I haven't got a good enough read on the others yet to come to a decision.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 am UTC

I really did not like Laserguy's characterization of Boomfrog. Likely townie due to nice prose? Hardly a reason to think town.

Plytho, do you really think if dethstalker was my scumbuddy I'd defend him like this? I'd be more likely to do something like bessie, try to coach them into better play. Which, if dethstalker does get lynched and ends up being scum, will be very informative.

Bit suspicious of your list as well plytho. You have Boomfrog, SirGabriel and YOLO near the top of your list, when I'm reading them as neutral at best. Why do you think they are so townie?

Ninja'd by YOLO:
Honestly, I usually try not to spend a lot of time on setup speculation. But I tend to respond to questions asked of me, so if they are about setup spec, I will answer about setup spec. But that's coming from me, so take it with a grain of salt.

Interesting what you say about Bard. You could be telling the truth, and they are scum hiding behind their newness to these forums, or you could be scum, trying to get a townie lynched due to your knowledge of them as a player.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 16, 2017 5:23 am UTC

I apologise. I do love me some wine. It's so delicious, and so...thought provoking, you know?

Just to clarify, are you saying that you're challenging me to a duel? You would dare to threaten me? You, sir, are misguided, and your actions are that of a fool.

Boomfrog, you have provided extremely little in what you have said. I'm not even sure what you provided for my benefit. Your constant avoiding of matters on import, has me thinking you are hiding something.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed May 17, 2017 7:03 am UTC

I honestly don't see how you could think them scum. They have shown no indication of trying to improve, even under threat of lynch. I would suspect jester if it weren't for a lack of jesters in the meta, and mpolo's claim that a jester lynch would end the game.

That said, they have been consistently unhelpful, and with the apparent extra vote on them, better to lynch them now, when there is low probability of lynching scum anyway, than lynch someone else who may be town, but is contributing. At the moment they are sitting at 5 votes, baring any unknown votes. (SDK, YOLO, Boomfrog, plytho, extra)

Dimochka I was feeling a bit off about. They hadn't contributed much of note lately, mainly focusing on 'helping' dethstalker, when that help had already been offered. But looking back over previous posts, they don't seem nearly as bad. Though I have to wonder why they think SDK is not normal scum.

Bessie, why do you think that you needed to move laserguys vote from Boomfrog to yourself? Boomfrog was in no danger of lynch. At that stage he had two votes.

YOLO seems to accept other people's opinions too readily. Though, if SDK is town, I would probably follow them on the Madge bandwagon.

Jimbob, pray tell, how are my reads of plytho different from your own?

I'm very interested in what Bard has to say. Cat's honor does not invite much confidence.

Here's a town to scum list:

1. Gopher of Pern as King Lear
2. Sabrar as Regan
3. plytho as Goneril
4. bessie as Edmund
5. dimochka as Cordelia
6. SirGabriel as the Earl of Gloucester
7. Madge as Oswald
8. Znirk as a Servant
9. freezeblade as the Duke of Cornwall
10. DethStalker as the Duke of Burgundy
11. LaserGuy as the King of France
12. SDK as Edgar
13. jimbobmacdoodle as an Officer
14. DGames | Bard as the Earl of Kent
15. #HBC | YOLOSWAG as the Doctor
16. BoomFrog as The Fool
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed May 17, 2017 7:32 am UTC

Umm...because they haven't tried to blend in. They have been spectacularly unhelpful, that even a newbie scum would think to themselves 'they're going to lynch me if I don't change something, let's change something."

They haven't changed how they post....which screams to me jester. But as that's so low a probability, I'm going to stick with town, as scum has more incentive to try and fit in with the rest than town. I was expecting them to engage after the last time, but they still havent. So, town or not, they are kinda a liability.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed May 17, 2017 11:11 am UTC

I know they are gut feelings Madge, but why do you trust SDK, Sabrar and Dimochka?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed May 17, 2017 12:01 pm UTC

Znirk has the one post. They are completely neutral, along with freezeblade, madge, and dethstalker. They haven't posted enough content for me to form an opinion either way. Ones below I have felt something scummy from.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri May 19, 2017 11:50 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
SirGabriel wrote:I've never played with two mafia factions before. Is it possible that the two factions are different sizes (one with 2 members and one with 3)? And what are the chances we have third parties in addition to the two mafias?


I'm certainly not an expert but different sized scum faction seems quite reasonable. Maybe some balance experts could weigh in, but I think given the number of players 2-2 scum might be too few and 3-3 too many.

For some reason Gopher's town read on DethStalker keeps bugging me. Particularly the deflection towards bessie when I pushed him on it.

@Gopher: do you now think bessie is scum for being nice to DethStalker?


Umm... I don't understand the question? I don't know where I deflected towards bessie. Oh, talking about I'd be doing what bessie did? Not neccessarily. It's what I would do. Bessie seems a nice enough person to do it regardless of her alignment. Plus, she wasn't the only one trying to coach them. Bessie was mentioned simply because she was the most recent.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:
plytho wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:I wouldn't lynch Bard, Laserguy, or GoP.
Why exclude these three? (Or two I guess since you think bard can be a target after all.)

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:I'm not saying it's impossible DethStalker was bussed. I do think it's very likely at least one of his partners was off the wagon. Jimbob, Sabrar, and bessie were all on it confirmed town leaving me, BoomFrog, and plytho as the early voters on his wagon.
Why is bessie confirmed town?
Nevermind.

With multiple scumteams, most of what I said prior is null. I still maintain that at least one of DethStalker's partners was off the wagon, but I can't take people out of the scumpool for lynching him because it could be another scum team.

Bessie and LaserGuy I wouldn't lynch because of SDK's and Bard's claims; I doubt they fabricate that.


SDK I could see fabricating that, or at lest twisting the truth enough. But that doesn't necessarily make them scum. I don't know about Bard.

Even assuming one scum team, your logic was pretty bad. There must be one scum amongst 9 players? Um, duh! I honestly don't think we'll get much from analysing who was on and off the wagon, due to the way dethstalker was acting.


SirGabriel wrote:
plytho wrote: It seems extremely likely now that we are indeed dealing with two scum factions: DethStalker's guild and some supernatural faction. I can't imagine jimbob getting a supernatural cop power to find a serial killer.

That's a good point. So I think we can safely assume two mafia factions.

I've never played with two mafia factions before. Is it possible that the two factions are different sizes (one with 2 members and one with 3)? And what are the chances we have third parties in addition to the two mafias?


It could be they are different sizes. Third parties would depend on the relative power for the factions, but with 2 scum factions, I would presume that they would be nominally town-aligned neutrals. The scum power revealed was a relatively weak one; Not as powerful as a ninja, but still allows a kill to go through.

We are also assuming that supernatural means scum. It may be possible that an indy or town may be supernatural. I doubt it (as that would essentially make one a miller), but its worth considering.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat May 20, 2017 7:30 am UTC

My reads haven't changed as a result of the lynch. I believe I already said something to that effect. As I said, Dethstalker was distinctly unhelpful, I had them as neutral, if you recall my reads.

And bessie, please lay off with the insults re: my acting. I am but an inexperienced actor, indeed, this is the first time I have played a big part in any production.

Madge, who are you agreeing with re: 2/2 scum? Most people have said 2/3 scum?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun May 21, 2017 11:28 pm UTC

Bessie, I feel you are being very nitpicky about your townieness. You are first on four different lists, and excluding Boomfrog, you are no lower than fourth. Maybe not most townie, but you are up there.

Since some people are hounding me on dethstalker; I think the way dethstalker finished the day was perfect from his point of view. He said nothing of import, so there's no reads of his to look into. Both town and scum had good reasons to lynch them. When I said it would be most informative, I assumed at that stage they would start contributing.

SirGabriel, you'll note my confirmation post was in page two. Other people had already mentioned the possibility of 2 scum teams. My call for vote claims was under the assumption that everyone was power-town. That may not indeed be the case, and I dropped it after that. And I did give reasons for thinking for newbie-town for dethstalker, you just skipped over them obviously. You are wrong on all your points.

Boomfrog, it may be your prose, but I don't get this line:
BoomFrog wrote:
Then there's his "in case of my death" post, which isn't really a scummy thing to do, but does not consider DethStalker being scum as even an option. BoomFrog is voting for DethStalker at this time.
The vote for DethStalker was not for death,
but to preserve the life of Madge,
would she live another day,
to use her power in the night,
and​ better serve the town,
then a wretched fool who can't be understood.

DethStalker's is a happy chance,
But was it luck or wit to happen upon this result?


Madge was in no danger of lynch (modkill, maybe), even though there was some discussion over it. You seemed to be following SDK blindly at that stage.

Honestly, after trying to read through your prose, you still haven't managed to form any honest opinions about anything this game.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 12:47 am UTC

SDK I'm unsure of, which is relatively normal. His reputation precedes him, which means his outing of bessie doesn't speak to his townieness. I do agree with most of his reads, which is kind of unusual. SDK has contributed a lot more than you have, and I kind of consider you both have similar styles, so you are currently on the scummier side.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 1:10 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Bessie, I feel you are being very nitpicky about your townieness.
Nope, not my post restriction. Read this post and try again.


Um...I wasn't going for your post restriction? I was commenting on the fact you seem to be picking on very minor details, to the detriment of the game. The fact that you don't have it as a post restriction makes me think less of you.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 2:22 am UTC

Aren't you being a tad defensive? I was only talking about that particular comment. I find it interesting that you thought otherwise.

I agree with you re: your FOS's, but now you are just repeating yourself.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 7:09 am UTC

I've come to a similar conclusion to laserguy. There is definitely something going on with bessie. I would like to hear from SDK re: his almost confirmation of her as town. Bessie is being overly defensive about being called town. I have been wrong about bessie before though, but that was before playing a few games with her.

I find it interesting both Boomfrog and Sabrar have dimochka / Madge / Kalira at the top of their town lists. I don't see anything particularly towny about them. Madge and kalira were particularly lurky D1. Why do you both consider them town?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 7:37 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Quick note: if bessie is scum then SDK must be as well. Not true vice versa. Conclusion: instead of bessie we should lynch SDK if that is the consensus.


If SDK is scum, we still wouldn't know bessie's alignment. And judging from SDK's last comment, even if SDK is town, it may still be that bessie is scum.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 7:51 am UTC

SDK wrote:I will say this, if it puts your mind at ease: My role PM does not explicitly state that bessie is town. My role interacts with bessie in a way that points to her being town as very likely.


Sorry, this was the post I was referring to. It is not confirmation of bessie as town, just likely from SDK's point of view.

I would like further clarification of this, if SDK would be forthcoming. Might the likelihood change if there are two scum teams?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 22, 2017 10:37 pm UTC

I wonder if I finally get a game as scum, if I'll seem quite townie to people. :)

Picking up on Kalira's point about read lists of the dead, both Sabrar and jimbob had Znirk (now Sabrar) and Laserguy at the scummy end (Interestingly, they both had each other as well). Going off today, I've been less sure of Sabrar, they do seem to be acting slightly differently. Still posting as much as ever, but that's usual Sabrar.

(If Sabrar has flipped sides, does that me he wins no matter what?)

Laserguy, I feel better about. I do not think they are scum.

On the other hand, bessie is near the top of both lists. Could bessie be taking advantage of what happened to her last game to put us on the track of their scum lists? If bessie had mentioned the possibility, I might've said yes, but it was Kalira who brought it up.

Does anyone think it likely there is scum between Sabrar(Znirk) and Laserguy?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 23, 2017 1:07 am UTC

Not a fan, but I don't think they are scummy. They defended laserguy, which I hope to hear more about, and I'm feeling ok about laserguy. But they have a lot of fluff in their posts, and their last one especially (waiting for people, instead of moving on their own). Their tunnelling on me is a little troubling, as I know I'm town, and they haven't provided much on anything else. I'm keeping an eye on them.

One thing I noticed, which probably doesn't matter at this point, but dethstalkers role pm said that the votals show one extra vote on them, not that he actually had one extra vote.

Did dethstalker actually have one extra vote? (i.e. if dethstalker and one other person had 4 people voting for them, dethstalker would get lynched, due to having one extra vote). Or was it just a show of a vote? (So in my example, the votals would actually be tied, even though dethstalker had one extra vote?)
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 23, 2017 1:08 am UTC

EBWOP:

That was in reference to Boomfrogs question re: Bard.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 23, 2017 5:03 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Does anyone think it likely there is scum between Sabrar(Znirk) and Laserguy?

Gopher of Pern wrote:...and I'm feeling ok about laserguy.

Wait what? Why did you ask the first question if you don't actually think LaserGuy is scum?


Umm...because other people might?

The theory is that scum would off people who were onto them. Both jimbob and Sabrar died, and both jimbob and Sabrar had Laserguy and Znirk as possible scum. Ergo, a high chance that one or both of them are scum, if scum killed off people that were onto scum. I'm asking if the theory has any merit, rather than particular reads on both of them.

Just going from my own thoughts, I don't think Laserguy is scum, and I'm unsure of Sabrar(Znirk). But others may have different opinions.

Why did you find that hard to parse?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 23, 2017 7:16 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Going off today, I've been less sure of Sabrar, they do seem to be acting slightly differently.
Could you be a bit more specific?

Gopher of Pern wrote:The theory is that scum would off people who were onto them. Both jimbob and Sabrar died, and both jimbob and Sabrar had Laserguy and Znirk as possible scum.
Don't know if this is laziness or deliberate misdirection.
1. Znirk was expected to be modkilled. At that point it doesn't matter who found them scummy.
2. LaserGuy was found scummy by BoomFrog (most scummy), SDK (most scummy), bessie (2nd scummiest), jimbob (2nd scummiest) and myself (2nd scummiest). Your theory above needs to explain why specifically we were killed and why not one of the others. Also you have LaserGuy as town so I don't think this is relevant anyway.


Not really, atm. Maybe you are slightly more antagonistic? I'm just getting the same feeling as I did in previous games with you. Not enough to vote, but enough to keep an eye on.

Expected to be modkilled? It was a possibility, sure, but I wouldn't say expected. And I was posting that possibility more as a musing. I myself don't put much stock into reasons for scum to kill off people, especially after one day, but others seem to. I myself prefer to kill based on guided random chance.

I'm more confident on Boomfrog and bessie at the moment.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue May 23, 2017 10:27 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:While I understand that swagvoting YOLO makes some kind of sense, I'd like to hear why you think he's scum now.

Do you have any other scumreads? You didn't here:

Do you think New Sabrar is townie now? Did he move up in your list? I'm asking because beside 'swag' all you have in that post is Sabrar's argument.

You've pierced my hypocrisy bubble with your politeness:

I still think YOLO isn't guild mafia because of how hard he hit DethStalker, but I agree with Sabrar that he's clearly not paying much attention to the thread. In the previous game he was equally flippant until D3 when he suddenly actually cared about the lynch and became far more active. So I think, right now, he doesn't care who gets lynched. Also, just as a note, I do believe YOLO and SDK are not teammates. YOLO's "I wish" was quite convincing.

I have some other scum suspicions but I'm waiting for SDK's catch-up post before I voice them.

I don't think Sabrar and YOLO are teammates but otherwise my opinion of new Sabrar hasn't changed since my summery post.

@LaserGuy: You know there is zero chance Bessie will be lynched today, right? Why not vote for SDK instead of her? For Bessie to be scum and SDK to be town would require SDK to be foolish or reckless. We know he's not foolish and he's generally not reckless.


I disagree. If YOLO is mafia, I can't see him being supernatural, as he would have known about the two different scum teams at the start of the day, and wouldn't make the gaffe that they did. I think they may be just a disinterested townie, with the slight possibility of being scum buddies with dethstalker. YOLO strikes me as the kind of person who would totally bus the hell out of an unhelpful teammate.

@SirGabriel, it's mostly myself and laserguy finding bessie scummy. I think she was being too focused on her being thought of as town, and being defensive when called on it.

I would also be ok with an extension.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 12:20 am UTC

Yay! SDK is back!

I was expecting for him to come in, and for me to disagree with his points, but there is very little I can find fault with. Thus, I will trust him regarding bessie, although I still don't think she is town. Town aligned indy, probably.

I'm still not convinved about Boomfrog. Still misses things, and I think they are going after YOLO for the wrong reasons. They haven't responded to reasons why YOLO might be guild-scum as opposed to ghost-scum, and this in particular:
BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Madge
...
Bard and bessie for their obviously scummy posts I quoted, though Bard in particular has been acting like scum for a while now that I think about it.

Here's who you don't lynch: GoP, LaserGuy, BoomFrog, dimochka, SDK, plytho, SirG in order of innocence in my opinion.

Why would you say to lynch Bessie but not SDK? Have you paid any attention to the thread at all? SDK stands by his claim that Bessie is almost certainly town. Do you think SDK is making a mistake but is still town?


I had already pointed out in thread that SDK had pulled back a bit on the confirmation, so there was wiggle room there (I think it's cleared up now). I feel like this is pot calling the kettle black, as Boomfrog is not paying attention to some things.

I know I can come across as a bit scummy, but I refuse to believe that 3 town players would pick me as scum. So I'm looking at SirGabriel, plytho and Bard. From my feelings, I do feel Bard is a bit misguided, but they have tunnelled hard on me. I have a theory regarding them, but I would prefer to share it the next day, as revealing it now would be counter-productive. SirGabriel and plytho I'm less sure about. They've posted enough to get by, but they have been fairly quiet. I'm going to have to look more into them.

YOLO, I'm still not sure whether they are guild-scum or town (possibly indy). I still doubt they are ghost-scum, as they wouldn't have the confusing at the beginning of the day. Regarding the roleblock claim, that really doesn't point either way. It's a common role for both sides, and his choice of target is convenient.

Madge, needs to post more, but sometimes RL gets in the way.

Sabrar, is still on the townie side, but much less so than day 1.

Kalira is doing a decent job at catching up. Some things do stand out though. Why didn't you put me in the same camp as dimochka, Boomfrog, and Madge, when I had Sabrar at the top of my town list as well?

Laserguy I'm still alright with, but they may be tunnelling a bit too hard on bessie now.

Dimochka I feel needs to post more. I keep seeing 'promise to post' posts, but little content.

TOWN
GopherofPern
Kalira
Laserguy
Sabrar
SDK
bessie
Dimochka
Madge
Bard
YOLO
SirGabriel
plytho
Boomfrog
SCUM

Unvote
Vote: YOLO


A lot of those positions are teetering. I'll have to go through SirG and plytho, to see where they really should lie.

I'd rather remove Boomfrog today, but YOLO should be ok. I would be shocked if they turned out to be ghost-scum. Guild-scum is quite believeable.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 8:28 am UTC

Still, Sabrar, if one does not think either player is scum, why should they vote for them? It's more important for the lurkers to pick a side, but laserguy has provided plenty, so I do not think they need to have a vote on one of the wagons. The main reason I'm voting for YOLO is to protect myself. The fact that a person is NOT on a wagon is still informative.

Bessie, your scummy reads seem to be a bit OMGUS. Do you actually believe myself and laserguy to be scummy? Why?

BoomFrog wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote: I'm still not convinved about Boomfrog. Still misses things, and I think they are going after YOLO for the wrong reasons. They haven't responded to reasons why YOLO might be guild-scum as opposed to ghost-scum, and this in particular:
BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Madge
...
Bard and bessie for their obviously scummy posts I quoted, though Bard in particular has been acting like scum for a while now that I think about it.

Here's who you don't lynch: GoP, LaserGuy, BoomFrog, dimochka, SDK, plytho, SirG in order of innocence in my opinion.

Why would you say to lynch Bessie but not SDK? Have you paid any attention to the thread at all? SDK stands by his claim that Bessie is almost certainly town. Do you think SDK is making a mistake but is still town?


I had already pointed out in thread that SDK had pulled back a bit on the confirmation, so there was wiggle room there (I think it's cleared up now). I feel like this is pot calling the kettle black, as Boomfrog is not paying attention to some things.
At the time SDK has said he was still fairly certain Bessie was town. He's back peddled more since then which really pings me, but that's a separate topic. At the time and really even now I think it's ridiculous to consider lynching Bessie before SDK.


I think it's a bit short sighted. According to your logic, if SDK is town, bessie is town. Hence, if bessie is scum, SDK must be scum.

So, if we lynch SDK, and SDK is scum, we have no idea about bessie, but if SDK is town, we know bessie is town.
If we lynch bessie, and bessie is town, we have no idea about SDK, but if bessie is scum, we know SDK is scum.

Why would lynching SDK be the better option? If he's scum, yay, but we have no additional information. If he's town, bessie is town, but likely gets killed off by scum, because she will be confirmed town. If we lynch bessie, and she is scum, we have another scum ready to lynch. If she is town, it's just a mislynch, but says nothing to SDK, so if he is town, he might still be alive to help us.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 8:31 am UTC

EBWOP - I hit submit instead of preview!

With that logic, it seems like we get more reward out of lynching bessie, and less drawbacks if its a mislynch, than lynching SDK.

I'm not a fan of Madge's claim, or her voting strategy. But, I'm not comfortable with lynching her today, due to RL issues, but all bets are off tomorrow.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 8:43 am UTC

Madge wrote:If the only reason you're not going to lynch me today is because i'm sick, please don't let that stay your hand. i'd probably be posting more or less the same thing and YOLOSWAG's lackluster claim is the sort of thing i normally base my votes on.

not that i'm asking you to vote for me, but i'm kind of like, if that's what you really think, then friggin' post it.

@bessie happy to answer traffic light question but traffic lights are different around the world so it probably won't apply to your local area


If I didn't have a stronger scum lean on other people, I would. You have simply been lurky all game, and now you are participating a bit more, I'm finding it off. I can chalk it down to your sickness, but 3 days of active lurky behaviour is too much.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 8:58 am UTC

DGames | Bard wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
DGames | Bard wrote:@Laserguy - My King! I'm not really a fan of Sir Yoloswag's play style; I can't say I get his suspicions of me this game because he hasn't really explained them to me. He kinda asserts himself in a way that isn't very transparent with his intentions, i.e. he says my posts are "disgusting," but he doesn't say what is "disgusting" about them. Another example that comes to mind is when he says I should be in the lynch pool, but doesn't really go in depth with the why. I'm not sure how he expects me to trust him in this type of situation. On that note, I wonder how he feels about me going for Gopher as a priority before putting him further on the chopping block.


Who in your mind do you see as probable scummates for YOLO? What about Gopher?


Hrmmm, if Yolo is scum, I'm not sure who his potential mates could be. If he's a part of guild scum, he was well distanced from his mate Dethstalker (albeit this was pretty simple to accomplish given that Dethstalker was an easy target). There are many players he is distanced from though, so he would have hid his tracks well at least. Obviously, anyone not voting for him in this situation could be his possible mate, even me! :3

If he's of the supernatural variant, I would have no idea. I'd have to analyze his relationships a bit more extensively. Oddly, I would still suggest GoP considering that GoP has fairly quickly thrown Yoloswag under the bus in the midst of what I felt was an amiable relationship between the two (Yolo suggested that he did not think GoP was a good play for the earlier day phase, for instance, which felt out of place. Conversely, GoP has returned the favor by voting for Yolo, which feels like an odd transiion).

I guess I kind of am tunneling GoP's slot, in a way. It's 1:45am, and admittedly, I have been really busy with some projects that are preventing me from really jumping headfirst into a reread. Urgh.

What do you think is the right path from here? Do you think I am just brutally wrong about GoP and should be voting for someone else/Yolo? I see your vote is on SDK; whom would you vote for in this situation assuming it was ultimately between yolo or GoP, or would you still push for SDK/Bessie?


Note that when I voted, it was 3 votes apiece. Am I supposed to let that slide, and let myself be possibly lynched, when I know I am town, or put a vote on someone else, who may be town?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 10:42 am UTC

A reread of plytho:

Day 1 started off kinda neutral, just asking a few setup questions. Then their first reads list, which I disagree with, but seems okish. Then there is a big disagreement on dethstalker. I can get where they were coming from with that. And they ended up right, and I was wrong.

Day 2 plytho seems ok, aside from wanting me lynched. I doubt they would have been scum with dethstalker. They seem to be able to be swayed easily by others though, which can be a bit worrying. They have posted a lot more than I remember though. Mostly helpful stuff now that I have re read it.

Conclusion (before I read the latest post): Probably town, definitely not on dethstalkers team.

Now to reply to the post made while I was writing:

Re: vote manipulation. Yes, I wanted to know what votes were on. I changed my mind, and didn't explain myself well. I was talking about obvious ones, like dethstalkers, bessie's, laserguys and dimochka's; vote manipulations that don't hurt town. Really, whats the difference between knowing what they are now, to knowing what they were then? It would have got that discussion out of the way early. Plus, I wanted to see people's reasons for wanting / not wanting to know people's vote powers. I was also under the mistaken assumption of everyone having powers. Thank you for making me point that out, by the way.

Re: dethstalker, why can't I make that assumption? That's how most people who play this game play, especially newbies.

If that's your only two points against me, I have no idea why you think I'm scum. You think I'm scum because I provided a counterpoint to the dethstalker lynch (You said you like counter-points), and because I generated some claim discussion (however misguided you think I was)? There have been plenty more scummy things done in this game.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 10:45 am UTC

Going to bed now, so I probably wont be able to reply for the rest of the day.
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