Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Game over! - Wing Condition

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:10 am UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:I think overall, even though the vote between me and Dethstalker was tied, Dethstalker was seen as more scummy.
This is based on what exactly and why do you think it is worth mentioning?

heuristically_alone wrote:I find it unlikely for both the scum to be on me. One for sure on Dethstalker if not the other.
Why? In case you're also town scum doesn't need to do anything to push a mislynch so why do you think it is more likely to find them on one wagon rather than the other?

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:01 am UTC

@dimochka: if heury is scum who is his partner? If he's town which two players are scum?

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby somitomi » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:21 am UTC

Having re-read the earlier posts, scum could not have anticipated the emergence of the DethStalker wagon without some powers of clairvoyance. If heury is town, it would make sense for scum to push against him before that. So that would make sabrar, jimbob and flicky slightly suspicious. Sabrar then voted against DethStalker while jimbob voted after DethStalker got most of the votes. Both could be scum attempting to muddy the waters by taking advantage of the confusion caused by DethStalker.
Image
they/them/theirs = he/him/his ❖ If you want to use something else out of dadaist spite, I won't mind.
✆ Hello? This is Forum Games Discord, what is your emergency?

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 1 - The Council of the Birds

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:02 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@heury and DethStalker,

One of you is going to be lynched tonight. You should be thinking about claiming.


I claimed because of this post and because i thought for sure I'd be the one to get lynched. Now that I think about it, it doesnt feel right about him asking TWO players to be ready to claim. That only gives extra info to scum.
I do not like the fact that both Jimbob and Dimochka are finding me suspicious for claiming.

In response to Flicky, yes it is more based on vote analysis than reads that I want to focus on Sabrar and Laserguy. Right now I'm leaning more on Laserguy.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:04 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:I think overall, even though the vote between me and Dethstalker was tied, Dethstalker was seen as more scummy.
This is based on what exactly and why do you think it is worth mentioning?

heuristically_alone wrote:I find it unlikely for both the scum to be on me. One for sure on Dethstalker if not the other.
Why? In case you're also town scum doesn't need to do anything to push a mislynch so why do you think it is more likely to find them on one wagon rather than the other?
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:07 pm UTC

EBWOP:
After I gave my reads list discussion seemed to mostly be about Dethstalker.

It could be the inexperienced player in me talking, but I find it hard to believe that both scum would be on the same wagon on d1, unless there was something that the majority of the town definitely found scummy about that player.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:17 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:It could be the inexperienced player in me talking, but I find it hard to believe that both scum would be on the same wagon on d1, unless there was something that the majority of the town definitely found scummy about that player.

Maybe I didn't phrase it as clearly as I wanted but my question to you was focused on how your wagon was different, why you would search for scum primarily on DethStalker's wagon and not your own?

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: Formerly NYC, now LA. He/Him/His please.

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 1 - The Council of the Birds

Postby dimochka » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:36 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@heury and DethStalker,

One of you is going to be lynched tonight. You should be thinking about claiming.


I claimed because of this post and because i thought for sure I'd be the one to get lynched. Now that I think about it, it doesnt feel right about him asking TWO players to be ready to claim. That only gives extra info to scum.
I do not like the fact that both Jimbob and Dimochka are finding me suspicious for claiming.

In response to Flicky, yes it is more based on vote analysis than reads that I want to focus on Sabrar and Laserguy. Right now I'm leaning more on Laserguy.

So you don't like that people tell you to claim AND you don't like that people find you suspicious for claiming. That doesn't leave a lot of people...

The fact is that it's easy for scum to fake claim VT in this game, so your claim doesn't strengthen your position in any way (if you think about it, just claiming "town" would have gotten the same D1 result). But on the off chance that you are actually vanilla, you just made it easier for scum to pick someone who may be a PR for the night target.

heuristically_alone wrote:EBWOP:
After I gave my reads list discussion seemed to mostly be about Dethstalker.

It could be the inexperienced player in me talking, but I find it hard to believe that both scum would be on the same wagon on d1, unless there was something that the majority of the town definitely found scummy about that player.

I can understand that, and yet in a game I played recently I had all scum (and I think the SK) on my bandwagon, so I don't assume this anymore.

Also sidenote: I really don't like the votes on dethstalker. A lot of it seems opportunistic. I'll call out specific examples in next post. I'm currently finishing my quick analysis of the other people and answering Sabrar's questions. shouldn't take more than an hour or so.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: Formerly NYC, now LA. He/Him/His please.

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby dimochka » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:42 pm UTC

Players part 2:

somitomi: don't really like D1 content. First 2 pages have almost nothing, and then they're just repetitions of ideas already in play (opinion on heury, and defaulting to not answering a question because of LG's response yet failing to mention that reasoning till prodded). With that being said, seems like genuinely trying to analyze the case on dethstalker. I feel like this is more of a new town player meta than a scum meta. D2 is better so far (post towards top of page 5 is better).

Mpolo: messes up first setup post. nothing notable about first page content, other than he apparently completely mirrors my last post regarding heury's claim. the rest of his content focused on responding to dethstalker. I'm a bit surprised he was the night target. one reason that could make sense is that scum didn't want to deal with him looking more townie with dethstalker's flip.

Sabrar: points out mpolo's setup error. starts off with good posts, though I don't like him making the decision for everyone that RVS is over (seems to be putting himself in a leader role for no reason). Pointed out Heury's inconsistencies. Finds Dethstalker scummy (for logical reasons, but I would've found him townie for exact same logic, albeit not helpful townie). But I'm not getting anything inherently scummy. With Sabrar though who knows...

Jimbob: questions sabrar's questions, then asks some questions that are (in my opinion) no better or worse. Day 1 was mostly lots of questions, except for a good analysis post of responses to his questions. He also sees dethstalker same way as I do. Overall feeling pretty good about him.

Now looking into scum pairings. Sorry this is in different pieces, I figured it might be better that I do that than not post for a while and then toss it all at once. And for this part I'm going back to re-read each person and their interactions with Heury (quantity + quality, as well as lack thereof).
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:47 pm UTC

@dimochka

On another site I was about to get lynched d1 and I was a PR matrix6 setup but claimed VT, and got lynched and man I got so much hate from that haha.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:50 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:So you don't like that people tell you to claim AND you don't like that people find you suspicious for claiming. That doesn't leave a lot of people...


Correction. I don't like that somebody was telling TWO people to claim andnI didn't like that I got beef for claiming after somebody else suggested I did.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Madge » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:31 am UTC

Extension has been given. New deadline is in5 days, 3 hours.

Votals:

None
I'm writing a vampire yaoi novel, here's my accountability link: https://www.beeminder.com/mad/redandwilliam

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:39 am UTC

dimochka wrote:I can understand that, and yet in a game I played recently I had all scum (and I think the SK) on my bandwagon, so I don't assume this anymore.
That was Dark Tower and you remember correctly, all 4 scum were on your wagon. Granted Mafia needed a scapegoat to lynch instead of jimbob so in case heury is Town the situation might be different here.

dimochka wrote:I also noticed something that felt like scum setting up targets for d2, but I can't find it now. Going back to look in a moment.
Please come back to this.

dimochka wrote:I really don't like the votes on dethstalker. A lot of it seems opportunistic. I'll call out specific examples in next post.
You call LaserGuy townie, me 'not scummy', that doesn't leave a 'lot' of opportunistic votes left. What was it that you meant with this comment exactly?

dimochka wrote:(seems to be putting himself in a leader role for no reason)
I've enjoyed being the 'leader' in Shakespeare III (for all the good it did) however as stated here I'm purposefully trying to avoid doing the same in this game. Anyway I'm not sure how you can arrive from me informing the newbies about the conventions of RVS to me wanting to become a leader? How is that different from any of the other advice given previously?

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:46 pm UTC

I've been working on a full reread of LaserGuy, but I simply haven't had the time to write it up properly. The summary version is that I'm pretty certain he is town, despite bring on the mislynch wagon. I particularly like his recent point about flicky, so I need to go back over flicky's posts as well at some point.

Heuristically_alone, LaserGuy didn't tell you to claim, he said you should consider claiming. There's a big difference. Also, you are being unreasonable about your concern about him asking two people to claim - assuming for a moment that both you and DethStalker were town PRs, if one of you claimed but not the other, we likely still end up with a PR mislynch (assuming the claim is believed). In that situation, both should claim, and we might not mislynch. Also, please take the time to address my previous concerns from the reads post.

I'm going to bed now, and likely won't get a chance to post at least again until Sunday evening, more likely Monday.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 621
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

Sorry I've not been posting as much D2, I blame it on the heat...

About heury:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:D2 content has been somewhat better, in that he hasn't been actively unhelpful. However, I'm not too keen on his most recent post, mainly because it gives no thought really for either flicky or somitomi being scum, which is odd.
I don't think you can read much into there being two players he didn't consider when we know for a fact there are only two scum. That would just indicate an incomplete read, not scum intentionally avoiding analysing a buddy.

dimochka wrote:flicky: nothing particular stands out, though the analysis regarding why mafia would kill mpolo is very limited and is therefore not helpful. Feels intentionally so. I'd like to understand his scum reads.
Do you have any questions in particular? I don't really stand by my D1 analysis anymore since Deth flipped town and heury's content has improved D2, but if you want to know what my thoughts were at the time then ask away.
any pronouns
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:49 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:jimbob is very likely town.


Why? Because jimbob called DethStalker townie correctly? Scum can easily do that, you know. Obviously this only applies if heury is town, if he's scum then I think we can easily clear both jimbob and flicky.


No, not just because he correctly called DethStalker as townie. Rather because he went out of his way to defend a player behaving in a really scummy manner. There's a lot of risk and very little benefit to a scum player making this type of move unless they were fairly certain they knew which way the lynch was going to go, which wasn't the case here. It's not ironclad as it is in the case if heury flips scum, but I'm pretty confident that jimbob is town at this point.

flicky1991 wrote:The fact that a townie was lynched.


Considering that the mafia used the entire 3 days of N1 to take their actions (and presumably chat, or, I guess, wait for Jbby/dimochka), it shouldn't have been a surprise at all that this was a mislynch by the time D2 rolled around. If there was only one mafia left, they would have probably ended N1 much earlier.

flicky1991 wrote:Neutral. There's been plenty of content that looks more like someone actually playing the game, trying to get information and give advice, e.g.:
heuristically_alone wrote:@somitomi is there a reason you decide not to place a vote?
heuristically_alone wrote:Im against cop claiming. While he could still get useful results in the future, wait to claim until cop is about to get mislynched or one of your town results.


I'm unsure about his vote analysis in the last post but not so unsure that I find it scummy, which is why I've questioned him for a bit more. So I'm now a bit more willing to forgive the earlier hiccups as relatively-newbie town trying to get into the swing of things.


So... he asked one question and repeated something said by someone else and that's enough to move him from the scummiest player to neutral in your books? Aside from those two quotes, where do you see heury trying to get information? Or scumhunting?

LaserGuy wrote:The problem is that you made an argument that assumes, and only makes sense, if heury is town.


Do you see the reason why I have a problem with you making an argument in this manner?

heuristically_alone wrote:Mpolo- has a great presence in the game. Pushing town in the right direction, trying to get answers. Also same line of thinking on Dethstalker


What exactly did you mean here when you said mpolo was pushing town in the right direction here? He had you pegged as scum at the time and was voting for you. I'm assuming it's not about what he said about DethStalker (here) since you mentioned that separately.

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 621
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:23 am UTC

Gah, OK, this might turn out to have been the wrong move, but LaserGuy's pressure is getting to me and I want to forestall that line of questioning before it leads to me or heury being the lynch target and me having to claim anyway with less time for everyone to decide on a different lynch.

I am the cop. I got a town result on heury last night.

Yes, I know that means I die tonight.
any pronouns
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:49 am UTC

...Sigh.

flicky1991 wrote: this might turn out to have been the wrong move,


Yeah. I think it was.

There were no votes on either of you with plenty of time left in the day. Neither of you were even remotely in danger of being lynched at this point. As Sabrar and jimbob were discussing earlier, there was a good argument to be made that even if heury was about to get lynched, you may well have been better off letting it happen and hoping for a better night result.

Alright. It is what it is. I'll have to re-evaluate everyone in light of this development. At least you have a result on heury, which probably provides town with the most information from interactions.

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby somitomi » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:08 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:What exactly did you mean here when you said mpolo was pushing town in the right direction here? He had you pegged as scum at the time and was voting for you. I'm assuming it's not about what he said about DethStalker (here) since you mentioned that separately.

My guess is that heury was talking about this post (and the followup) concerning no lynch or this one about claiming. But I don't want to put words into anyone's mouth.
Image
they/them/theirs = he/him/his ❖ If you want to use something else out of dadaist spite, I won't mind.
✆ Hello? This is Forum Games Discord, what is your emergency?

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Madge » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:20 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Considering that the mafia used the entire 3 days of N1 to take their actions (and presumably chat, or, I guess, wait for Jbby/dimochka), it shouldn't have been a surprise at all that this was a mislynch by the time D2 rolled around. If there was only one mafia left, they would have probably ended N1 much earlier.


You should not be using the length of night to meta-game like this: it's considered bad sportsmanship and will encourage meta-gaming like a single mafioso deliberately delaying submitting their action so that way it looks like there are two in closed games.

(Besides, I can't speak for other mods, but IME the length of day/night will often depend on my own personal schedule as I try to set them for when I'll have time, so I might not have been able to end it earlier if I was e.g. having a busy weekend or sleeping, so I'm not sure if it even would give you useful information)

No votes have been cast.

Day ends in approx. 3 days, 17 hours
I'm writing a vampire yaoi novel, here's my accountability link: https://www.beeminder.com/mad/redandwilliam

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:20 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:No, not just because he correctly called DethStalker as townie. Rather because he went out of his way to defend a player behaving in a really scummy manner. There's a lot of risk and very little benefit to a scum player making this type of move unless they were fairly certain they knew which way the lynch was going to go, which wasn't the case here. It's not ironclad as it is in the case if heury flips scum, but I'm pretty confident that jimbob is town at this point.
Disagree, I did exactly the same thing in Diablo as scum. It's a good way to later shift the focus on people on the mislynch-wagon just like jimbob is trying to do here. With heury being town he basically lined up his D2 target while avoiding the spotlight as he voted only after DethStalker reached 3 votes first.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:02 pm UTC

So the 2 scum is in {dimochka, jimbob, LaserGuy, somitomi}.
- Need dimochka to answer my questions, getting a bad vibe from him.
- As explained before I'm suspicious of jimbob, especially because I don't believe his reply here at all as it would be extremely uncharacteristic from him not to care about the possible setup.
- I still have LaserGuy as townie though I don't like his defense of jimbob and it's a bit discomforting that he pushed 2 claims that were unfavorable to us. I disagree with what jimbob said here, I think it was very pushy even though he used the word 'consider'.
- somitomi seems to be active lurking D2, would like to see more content from him.

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 621
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:52 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:So the 2 scum is in {dimochka, jimbob, LaserGuy, somitomi}.
From your point of view, I assume? Or is there a reason you're exonerated?
any pronouns
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby heuristically_alone » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:10 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:Gah, OK, this might turn out to have been the wrong move, but LaserGuy's pressure is getting to me and I want to forestall that line of questioning before it leads to me or heury being the lynch target and me having to claim anyway with less time for everyone to decide on a different lynch.

I am the cop. I got a town result on heury last night.

Yes, I know that means I die tonight.

What a surprise. I thought I noticed a blue bird tweeting outside my window last night.

I am enjoying the pressure and that Laserguy is giving. He seems to be asking all the right questions and I highly doubt he is scum. I'm starting to feel some sort of camaraderie between Jimbob and Sabrar. And if right this second I was forced to make a decision who the scum team was, that would be it. More reads to come.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:26 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Sabrar wrote:So the 2 scum is in {dimochka, jimbob, LaserGuy, somitomi}.
From your point of view, I assume? Or is there a reason you're exonerated?

Obviously from my pov.

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby heuristically_alone » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:44 pm UTC

@Sabrar what is your read of somitomi? How likely are they to be a scum for you?
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

Beatrice wrote:The world is quiet here.

Tillian wrote:sig'd

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:02 pm UTC

50%, he's either scum or not. :D

No, but seriously I'm really at 50%, I think it's jimbob + either him or dimochka.
somitomi has a lot of 'me too' comments which I remember I found suspicious in flicky in PenPal where he was Town so it's not that alignment indicative for a newbie player. Upon re-read this is a post I like, theoretically it could be coming from scum who already knows heury's alignment but it doesn't feel that way. Otherwise however his content is lacking.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:48 am UTC

So here's where I'm at...

flicky: Claims cop. No reason not to believe it at the moment.

heury: Confirmed by flicky.

jimbob: Townie content. Nothing really pinging me at all at this point. As I mentioned earlier, I think that this post points strongly to jimbob being town. There's a few other things, like not reading the setup until quite late in D1, that, IMHO, tend to point more toward a townie player rather than a scummy one.

Sabrar: Most of his content is quite townie. There's a series of posts on DethStalker, ending with this one that ping me just a little bit. It's interesting that the other experienced players, mpolo, dimochka, and jimbob all fell on the side of DS being misguided town, whereas Sabrar went with scum. That's really the only thing that has stood out to me as possibly scummy in Sabrar's content. I think it's most likely the case that jimbob/Sabrar is town on town. But of the two, I'd say Sabrar is somewhat more likely to be scum.

dimochka: Hard to analyze without D1 content, but there's a few red flags here. In this post, his read of heury includes this comment that was never followed up on:
I also noticed something that felt like scum setting up targets for d2, but I can't find it now. Going back to look in a moment.


In a later post, there's this:
Also sidenote: I really don't like the votes on dethstalker. A lot of it seems opportunistic. I'll call out specific examples in next post. I'm currently finishing my quick analysis of the other people and answering Sabrar's questions. shouldn't take more than an hour or so.


AFAIK, dimochka didn't answer Sabrar's questions here, and never followed up on this opportunistic comment. As noted already, the fact that he's reading Sabrar and myself as townie and heury is town makes this comment difficult to understand.

His D2 read on somitomi seems very generous considering the amount of content somitomi actually has:
somitomi: don't really like D1 content. First 2 pages have almost nothing, and then they're just repetitions of ideas already in play (opinion on heury, and defaulting to not answering a question because of LG's response yet failing to mention that reasoning till prodded). With that being said, seems like genuinely trying to analyze the case on dethstalker. I feel like this is more of a new town player meta than a scum meta. D2 is better so far (post towards top of page 5 is better).

No scumreads besides heury at present.

somitomi: A few things are a little odd here...
somitomi wrote:Mpolo is suspicious too although I can't put my finger on the reason.

I didn't really have a clear opinion on the third question, but having re-read the thread for the umpteenth time, I'm inclined to say Mpolo & Heury at this point. But that's mostly just a hunch.

I'm not sure why he's singling out mpolo here as sufficiently scummy to be scum for reasons he can't explain.

The lack of voting at the end of D1 looks pretty bad, IMHO. somitomi was reading heury as a bit suspicious and wasn't bothered by heury marking jimbob as both scum and town because he read it as a joke. In the same post, he indicated DethStalker as strongest scumread, followed by mpolo based on the quote above, and continued to pressure DS. So it doesn't really make sense for him to be indecisive here if he's town. IRL reasons for absences happen for sure, but I have noted (and have been guilty of this myself), that very end-of-day IRL absences do tend to be much more common for scum than for town.

I'm not sure what to make of this response to me from somitomi, since the question wasn't directed at him in the first place, and despite saying he doesn't want to put words into someone's mouth, he puts a fair amount of effort into doing that. I don't know why he chose to respond to this in particular as opposed to anything else in the thread.

I think it's more likely he's newbie scum than newbie town.


So town-to-scum right now is looking like

LaserGuy
flicky
heury
jimbob
Sabrar
dimochka
somitomi

Going to go ahead and put this down.
Vote somitomi

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Madge » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:00 am UTC

Votals:

Somitomi - (1) - LaserGuy

Day ends in approx. 2 days, 20 hours
I'm writing a vampire yaoi novel, here's my accountability link: https://www.beeminder.com/mad/redandwilliam

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby somitomi » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:16 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:flicky: Claims cop. No reason not to believe it at the moment.
heury: Confirmed by flicky.

It's probably obvious (since I'm the one saying it), that any PR besides doctor should claim right now. A doctor claim on the other hand would be counterproductive, not to mention suspicious.
LaserGuy wrote:I'm not sure why he's singling out mpolo here as sufficiently scummy to be scum for reasons he can't explain.

Because the question was asking which two players I thought were scum. There wasn't much to go on at that early stage, so I mostly picked based on gut feeling.
flicky1991 wrote:Yes, I know that means I die tonight.

Unless we're in setup 2, but then the roleblocker would probably make your result useless.
LaserGuy wrote: So it doesn't really make sense for him to be indecisive here if he's town. IRL reasons for absences happen for sure, but I have noted (and have been guilty of this myself), that very end-of-day IRL absences do tend to be much more common for scum than for town.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I need to coordinate my IRL obligations according to my role :roll:
In all seriousness, I wasn't as sure about my opinion on DethStalker later in the day, as I was when I posted this, because (as others have pointed out) it's not something you'd expect scum to do. It wasn't something you'd expect from town either, but this conundrum was enough to delay my decision making. And if not DethStalker, then who? I didn't share the strong suspicion others had against heury, but others stood out to me even less.
Image
they/them/theirs = he/him/his ❖ If you want to use something else out of dadaist spite, I won't mind.
✆ Hello? This is Forum Games Discord, what is your emergency?

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:13 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:flicky: Claims cop. No reason not to believe it at the moment.
heury: Confirmed by flicky.

It's probably obvious (since I'm the one saying it), that any PR besides doctor should claim right now. A doctor claim on the other hand would be counterproductive, not to mention suspicious.


Doctor should not claim under any circumstances, IMHO.

somitomi wrote:
LaserGuy wrote: So it doesn't really make sense for him to be indecisive here if he's town. IRL reasons for absences happen for sure, but I have noted (and have been guilty of this myself), that very end-of-day IRL absences do tend to be much more common for scum than for town.


Sorry, I wasn't aware that I need to coordinate my IRL obligations according to my role :roll:


Lurking tends to be beneficial for scum, so they tend to find more excuses to do it.

somitomi wrote:In all seriousness, I wasn't as sure about my opinion on DethStalker later in the day, as I was when I posted this, because (as others have pointed out) it's not something you'd expect scum to do. It wasn't something you'd expect from town either, but this conundrum was enough to delay my decision making. And if not DethStalker, then who? I didn't share the strong suspicion others had against heury, but others stood out to me even less.


Why didn't you mention any of this when you discussed this earlier?

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:It's interesting that the other experienced players, mpolo, dimochka, and jimbob all fell on the side of DS being misguided town, whereas Sabrar went with scum.

- Why do you state that mpolo read him as Town at all?
- Why do you take dimochka's word of reading DethStalker as town after the flip at face-value?

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby somitomi » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:03 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Doctor should not claim under any circumstances, IMHO.

I agree, that's what I was trying to say (perhaps unsuccessfully).
LaserGuy wrote:Lurking tends to be beneficial for scum, so they tend to find more excuses to do it.


LaserGuy wrote:Why didn't you mention any of this when you discussed this earlier?

The doubts about DethStalker's alignment have been discussed rather thoroughly before the end of D1, so I thought there wasn't much point in reiterating it.
Image
they/them/theirs = he/him/his ❖ If you want to use something else out of dadaist spite, I won't mind.
✆ Hello? This is Forum Games Discord, what is your emergency?

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby somitomi » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:09 pm UTC

EBWOP: (to quote #2)
I know, but I wouldn't have thought that would cause such a visible difference considering players might be in completely different timezones.
Image
they/them/theirs = he/him/his ❖ If you want to use something else out of dadaist spite, I won't mind.
✆ Hello? This is Forum Games Discord, what is your emergency?

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:57 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Why didn't you mention any of this when you discussed this earlier?

The doubts about DethStalker's alignment have been discussed rather thoroughly before the end of D1, so I thought there wasn't much point in reiterating it.


When did you discuss your doubts about DethStalker prior to this point? Can you point me to the specific post?

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby somitomi » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:When did you discuss your doubts about DethStalker prior to this point? Can you point me to the specific post?

No, because I didn't, I meant others have voiced doubts about DethStalker being scum. Apparently it was Jimbob here and Sabrar initially.
Image
they/them/theirs = he/him/his ❖ If you want to use something else out of dadaist spite, I won't mind.
✆ Hello? This is Forum Games Discord, what is your emergency?

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:53 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:When did you discuss your doubts about DethStalker prior to this point? Can you point me to the specific post?

No, because I didn't, I meant others have voiced doubts about DethStalker being scum. Apparently it was Jimbob here and Sabrar initially.


Those are other people's opinions. They might be wrong, and at least two people in the game are scum and probably lying. Posting your own opinions, even if it's just "jimbob makes a good argument, I agree with him" is vastly more useful--more townie--than not posting anything at all. This entire discussion you've been extremely evasive about saying what you, somitomi, actually believe. Look again at what you wrote:
Not a particularly satisfactory one I fear. I wanted to post my vote in the morning, but didn't get around to it before leaving home due to momentary indecision. I was hoping to get back to it, but of course helping my sister move took longer than expected. I duly apologise for my tardiness.

Is there any indication in there of what you actually think about the players involved or the thought process behind your decision?

This one is a bit better, but you're still avoiding actually analysing anything.
In all seriousness, I wasn't as sure about my opinion on DethStalker later in the day, as I was when I posted this, because (as others have pointed out) it's not something you'd expect scum to do. It wasn't something you'd expect from town either, but this conundrum was enough to delay my decision making. And if not DethStalker, then who? I didn't share the strong suspicion others had against heury, but others stood out to me even less.

But it at least tells us something about what you believe. Then, here, you're using passive voice to obfuscate the fact that the doubts you're talking about weren't your doubts, they were the doubts of other players.
The doubts about DethStalker's alignment have been discussed rather thoroughly before the end of D1, so I thought there wasn't much point in reiterating it.

The fact that other people had doubts about his alignment does not say anything about whether you shared those doubts, or why you believed the people who were expressing them.

@Sabrar, I'll get to your questions later today when I have a bit more time.

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 621
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:29 pm UTC

LaserGuy, you are really going after individual people in this game - me earlier, now somi. That might just be your playstyle but it stands out when everyone else is giving more varied opinions on different players.

heuristically_alone wrote:I'm starting to feel some sort of camaraderie between Jimbob and Sabrar. And if right this second I was forced to make a decision who the scum team was, that would be it.
Could you be more specific about what you've noticed?
any pronouns
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4384
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:10 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:LaserGuy, you are really going after individual people in this game - me earlier, now somi. That might just be your playstyle but it stands out when everyone else is giving more varied opinions on different players.


I'm not sure how else to generate useful content from other players at this point. Wagon analysis can only get us so far; we don't have much in the way of power roles available to us; I'm not good at meta reads and haven't played with most of the players here anyway. Giving opinions is great and very helpful, but it's easy enough for a scum to give townie-looking reads or opinions on neutral subjects (setup, etc.) if they don't ever have to defend those things. Applying pressure to people forces them to defend what they've said and hopefully generate some content that they otherwise might not have expressed.

Also this:
Madge wrote:Bessie has been assigned as a mentor for laserguy

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia - Day 2 - A Thousand Scythe-Shaped Wounds

Postby Sabrar » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:52 am UTC

Vote: jimbobmacdoodle

Request mod-prod on dimochka


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jimbobmacdoodle and 9 guests