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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:44 pm UTC
by bessie
Sabrar wrote:@bessie: why are you sure there's no GF?
I'm not, but I thought it outside the scope of a newbie friendly game with simple powers. However, I wasn't expecting a a role like saran wrap or rice either.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:49 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
@Sabar in order to save someone I die. If they were to die, I take their place. I targeted huery last night.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:03 pm UTC
by moody7277
bessie wrote:Are you sure you were roleblocked? Maybe it just didn't work because there is scum on that list.


a. I was explicitly told that I would not know why my protection failed. I figured what was most likely was that someone on my list would get killed and I could present a list with {X,Y,Z} has at least one scum.
b. I was explicitly told I was roleblocked with the whole flavor thing. The other thing with huery was done at the same time, which is why I thought it was a side effect and led to my chile hypothesis.
c. If you were targeted with a night kill, it wasn't me who saved you, and I wouldn't think we have two protection roles.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:13 pm UTC
by bessie
moody7277 wrote:c. If you were targeted with a night kill, it wasn't me who saved you, and I wouldn't think we have two protection roles.
You didn't save me. Read the role pms.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:19 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Sabrar wrote:@flicky: can you target yourself?
It doesn't explicitly say.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:30 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Then you should be able to. Could you confirm with BoomFrog?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:39 pm UTC
by flicky1991
I've sent a PM.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:40 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
So did I get this right?

Bessie got breads ability, which is a one time shield from mafia or killers. But doesn't save her from lynch. So she's now defenseless.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:24 pm UTC
by heuristically_alone
Peaceful Whale wrote:@sabar, an apple a day keeps the doctor away! :mrgreen:

Peaceful Whale wrote:@Sabar in order to save someone I die. If they were to die, I take their place. I targeted huery last night.


Peaceful Whale wrote:Rennet all my apple mentions? That was me trying to breadcrumb my role. I remember reading it from somewhere and thought, "hey cool, maybe I should try to tell everyone I'm apple, but subtle so scum doesn't realize"
As apple I can heal one person every night. I can't target myself and can't target the same person two nights in a row. My target doesn't know that I saved them. If you want I can tell you who I saved. I was not the cause of no lynch N2.


Peaceful Whale has appeared to scum slipped. First I thought he was claiming doctor, and that to me makes sense with the apple flavor. But now it appears as if he has claimed bodyguard. That would make sense though to why he knows his target wasn't the one targeted for the kill n2.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:31 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Sabrar wrote:Then you should be able to. Could you confirm with BoomFrog?
Yes, I can target me if I want to. Why do you ask?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:36 pm UTC
by flicky1991
heuristically_alone wrote:Peaceful Whale has appeared to scum slipped. First I thought he was claiming doctor, and that to me makes sense with the apple flavor. But now it appears as if he has claimed bodyguard. That would make sense though to why he knows his target wasn't the one targeted for the kill n2.
It could just be the way BoomFrog has written the role, though?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:53 pm UTC
by Sabrar
flicky1991 wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Then you should be able to. Could you confirm with BoomFrog?
Yes, I can target me if I want to. Why do you ask?
Because that could be very useful in specific scenarios.

At computer, working on post.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:58 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
*rereads role pm*
...
oh
...
:P I guess I'm actually a "volantary bodyguard" I can choose who I guard. I thought that was doctor. I'm sorry if I confused anyone.

So Sabar, what if I used my ability on flicky, he used his on mine, and mafia killed flicky...... do we both die? That's a pretty tragic life story. Whale loves bird, dies protecting bird, then bird commits suicide... ouch.

@Sabar, What's your fool proof plan?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:00 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Peaceful Whale wrote:So Sabar, what if I used my ability on flicky, he used his on mine, and mafia killed flicky...... do we both die? That's a pretty tragic life story. Whale loves bird, dies protecting bird, then bird commits suicide... ouch.
No, my ability only applies to lynches, not nightkills.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:01 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Sorry, didn't realise I hadn't stated that.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:03 pm UTC
by Sabrar
One thought beforehand. When I first read this post my mind went: "PW is a PR, not Cop, probably Doc". I can definitely accept his claim even with Bodyguard.
Or he could have had a brilliant coach (looking at bessie right now).

Ninja'd.

@Peaceful Whale: flicky targeted Znirk N1, Znirk was killed, no second death. We can assume flicky's ability resolves after the NK. Ninja'd again, irrelevant.

Current plan is to lynch heury/moody, you guard flicky, flicky targets himself and bessie. D4 we lynch flicky/bessie and win. Need lots of analysis to prove correctness.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:05 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
Hmm, maybe you should have, scum might have targeted moody and huery, but now they won't. At least not to get a double kill. I don't think it matters

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:06 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
Edit: I mean shouldn't not should.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:13 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@bessie: did you inherit machoness and noisiness as well from Znirk?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:20 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
Or did you your bread replace the cop?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:28 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Sabrar wrote:@bessie: did you inherit machoness and noisiness as well from Znirk?
She implied that here:
bessie wrote:
moody7277 wrote:c. If you were targeted with a night kill, it wasn't me who saved you, and I wouldn't think we have two protection roles.
You didn't save me. Read the role pms.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:34 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@Peaceful Whale: you knew at the beginning of D3 that you were not the reason for the no-kill during the night. Why did you need to reread the pm to realize that you are Bodyguard instead of Doc?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:39 pm UTC
by Sabrar
I thought moody receiving notification for being RB-d could be due to noisy scum!roleblocker, but then why didn't anyone claim the same after N1? That part looks entirely unbelievable.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:39 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
Becuase I thought I was a nerfed doctor. But then I huery thought that it was a scum slip. I got confused and then reread my role pm, and realized what he had thought. So I am a "bodyguard". Not really a doctor. I just thought that I was a doctor. Just forgot that detail in the PM.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:46 pm UTC
by Sabrar
bessie wrote:I've been leaving you hints since D2.
To satisfy my curiosity, could you please list them?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:52 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@bessie: we had similar thoughts about the morality of some tactics in X-men. Did you get any flashbacks to it during this game?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:11 pm UTC
by Sabrar
To cut it short: I cannot provide concrete logical evidence why it is impossible for heury and moody to be both Town. I just find it extremely unlikely, given
- heury claiming VT where 2 VT-s in a 6-3 setup seems not to be balanced if Cop is already weak and Doc is really Bodyguard
- moody's claim of receiving notification of RB is suspicious
- flicky's ability is too strong for scum to have (even with the weaker version)
- bessie basically claimed backup first and it is such a logical role to have for town, she ran an extremely high risk of being counterclaimed if scum
- Peaceful Whale's role is logical for Town to have

To be honest I'm quite sure that scum-team is heury + moody (GF) but I was very wrong about LaserGuy so could be wrong here as well. If we can decide who is the most townie among {bessie,flicky,Peaceful Whale} then flicky should wed the other two N3 while Peaceful Whale protects him.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:26 pm UTC
by bessie
I just got home. Here are some replies. I am working on analysis.
Sabrar wrote:@bessie: did you inherit machoness and noisiness as well from Znirk?
I get the entire role.

Sabrar wrote:Or he could have had a brilliant coach (looking at bessie right now).
I could say the same thing about you. :) But I was thinking about it and I just can't believe there is any way we have 3 scum with a godfather. So FMPOV, you're confirmed town.

Peaceful Whale wrote: :P I guess I'm actually a "volantary bodyguard" I can choose who I guard. I thought that was doctor. I'm sorry if I confused anyone.

Peaceful Whale, why did you decide to sacrifice your life on N2 for your scummiest D2 read?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:54 pm UTC
by moody7277
Sabrar wrote:To be honest I'm quite sure that scum-team is heury + moody (GF)


Most likely one of us is town. Scum can't have this kind of role, even a balancing newb like me can see that. flicky knows he's town, and depending on how late he chose already knows that LaserGuy is hung, so he has a pool of 3 townies and 2 scum to pick from.

2S -> 2/5 * 1/4 = 10%
1T,1S -> 2 * 3/5 * 1/2 = 60%
2T -> 3/5 * 1/2 = 30%

I agree with bessie that GF seems a little too much like bastardy in a newbie-friendly game (but to you I'd obviously say that of course). Basically, I say we either try to get the other scum, or wait till tomorrow when we know there isn't a 90% chance of a townie also dying should huery be scum and land us in MYLO again.

I am also finding Sabrar's claim of "just plain yogurt" to be a little disappointing. I foresee myself sorting through a mountain of puppies in the near future.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:01 pm UTC
by Sabrar
moody7277 wrote:flicky knows he's town, and depending on how late he chose already knows that LaserGuy is hung, so he has a pool of 3 townies and 2 scum to pick from.

2S -> 2/5 * 1/4 = 10%
1T,1S -> 2 * 3/5 * 1/2 = 60%
2T -> 3/5 * 1/2 = 30%
Obviously that applies only in the case where he chooses randomly. Otherwise this proves nothing.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:09 pm UTC
by bessie
Puppies.

Sabrar wrote:One thought beforehand. When I first read this post my mind went: "PW is a PR, not Cop, probably Doc". I can definitely accept his claim even with Bodyguard.
Maybe he has a false claim. This is a newbie friendly game. And I’m pretty sure you, me, and BoomFrog discussed this and BoomFrog said he provides false claims to scum.

Hmm. Not quite how I remembered it. Sabrar, read this.


Peaceful Whale wrote:So did I get this right?

Bessie got breads ability, which is a one time shield from mafia or killers. But doesn't save her from lynch. So she's now defenseless.

Peaceful Whale wrote:Or did you your bread replace the cop?
You can quit fishing. I get all the roles. I still have the cop. The bulletproof is used up.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:17 pm UTC
by Sabrar
bessie wrote:Maybe he has a false claim. This is a newbie friendly game. And I’m pretty sure you, me, and BoomFrog discussed this and BoomFrog said he provides false claims to scum.
Sure, but do you think that Znirk's machoness would only be relevant for moody's 1-shot ability?

BTW, if you inherit a 1-shot power that was already used would you be able to use it a second time?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 pm UTC
by bessie
Sabrar wrote:Sure, but do you think that Znirk's machoness would only be relevant for moody's 1-shot ability?
I don't understand your question. I investigated moody, got a town result. I'm only noisy if I target scum. Where does the macho part come in? moody can't protect me but he claimed to be roleblocked. If he's GF and knows I investigated him, he didn't have to claim he protected me. Or are you implying he tried to kill me? Or that the cop role implies another protective ability?

Sabrar wrote:BTW, if you inherit a 1-shot power that was already used would you be able to use it a second time?
No idea, I have not yet had reason to ask this question.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:32 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
So should I save Bessie? So she can use her cop thing, or stick with flicky.(that's the plan right?)

I "saved" huery becuase he was acting scummy. Too scummy, I thought he was jester but now I'm not so sure. I thought me dieing was better than jester dieing. Because if the jester dies, that's bad for town, but good for mafia right? I was pretty sure Bessie would be targeted N2. That's my weird obscure part of my brain. My other part said, hey, he's not on the bottom, I've already "saved" my top townie, and I think maybe Sabar will want me to save him or someone else. (I thought this plan of Sabar s would happen, and I wasn't sure who he would want me to save) also, becuase huery did not die (and neither did I) he kinda has moved down the list.

Sorry besssie, I didn't realize I was rolefishing, is it really that bad? Also, good question Sabar, does it? Could Bessie one shot scum? And we lynch another?

Bessie, do you get the win conditions of whoever dies? Or just their power?...I think it's just power right?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:38 pm UTC
by Sabrar
bessie wrote:Or that the cop role implies another protective ability?
This one. Znirk being macho implies to me that there is a reason why BoomFrog added that modifier to his role and it would really surprise me if the only protection he could not benefit from would be moody's 1-shot ability.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:40 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@bessie: do you think scum-team could be flicky + Peaceful Whale?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:42 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@bessie: Also if you have the time, please answer these.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:53 pm UTC
by bessie
Peaceful Whale wrote:So should I save Bessie? So she can use her cop thing, or stick with flicky.(that's the plan right?)
You can't save me. I thought you understood that when you said this:
Peaceful Whale wrote:Bessie got breads ability, which is a one time shield from mafia or killers. But doesn't save her from lynch. So she's now defenseless.


Peaceful Whale wrote:I "saved" huery becuase he was acting scummy. Too scummy, I thought he was jester but now I'm not so sure. I thought me dieing was better than jester dieing. Because if the jester dies, that's bad for town, but good for mafia right?
I need to think about whether or not getting it this wrong on so many levels is believable, even from a super newbie.
If there is a Jester then they will roleblock all of town if they are lynched. They will lose and die if they are not lynched before D3.


Peaceful Whale wrote:I was pretty sure Bessie would be targeted N2. That's my weird obscure part of my brain. My other part said, hey, he's not on the bottom, I've already "saved" my top townie, and I think maybe Sabar will want me to save him or someone else.
What do you mean by save? Did you target someone N1?

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:02 pm UTC
by flicky1991
Peaceful Whale wrote:Because if the jester dies, that's bad for town, but good for mafia right?
...No, it's not. It's good for town if jester dies during the night, because if jester is lynched then the effect mentioned in the rules activates.

Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D3 - Salt and Sugar Preserve Us

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:03 pm UTC
by Peaceful Whale
Wait, I just posted, why isn't it showing up? Hi