Refrigerator Mafia - Post Game - The Eternal Soup

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:13 am UTC

bessie wrote:I thought by now you would realize I am scatterbrained.
I don't think scatterbrained is the right word but I understand what you mean.

bessie wrote:And did anyone seriously think my setup analysis was based solely on a reading of Rule #2? I'm quite suspicious of anyone that wants to try to push this.
Going back to my previous point if you only post part of your thought-process then don't act surprised when people assume that that's your whole case.

LaserGuy wrote:I don't think that town would have allowed the lynch to be decided randomly though. Somebody would have broken the tie.
We learn a lot from any lynch, if tie results in random lynch then a townie who is already on one of the wagons doesn't necessarily need to break the tie. Being off-wagon or not voting however is suspicious (a point I've mentioned previously. Guess who was scum that time? :) )

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby plytho » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:04 am UTC

I'm tired but awake and working on a post. I'll start by responding to bessie before trying to get a read on the rest of you.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:15 am UTC

@Znirk: please contribute more to the discussion.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby plytho » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:44 am UTC

bessie wrote:And did anyone seriously think my setup analysis was based solely on a reading of Rule #2? I'm quite suspicious of anyone that wants to try to push this.
I didn’t.

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:So it's more like rule #2 made you think about no-lynch and balance rather than it actually being in scum's favor?
Please explain your interpretation of this rule. How is Rule #2 otherwise in scum’s favor?

I’ll start with my interpretation of your quote:
bessie wrote:Per rule #2, tying the votes won’t stop the lynch. So I’m going to say 7-2, or 6-2-1 where independent is not anti-town.
I’m not that confident in my own setup speculation but with 9 players I assume we’d be somewhere between 7-2 and 6-3. Without taking powers into account, 7-2 obviously favors town more than 7-3. This means strong scum powers mean a higher likelihood of 7-2 and strong town powers mean a higher likelihood of 7-3.

So, in this context, when you say “based on rule #2 I’m thinking 7-2” I interpret this as: ‘rule #2 tips the balance towards scum, away from 6-3 and towards 7-2’. Am I reading this correctly?

If I’m not, please explain what you mean. If I am, I disagree, and so do you:

bessie wrote:1. Ties result in an extension. Usually favors town, but extends game.
2. Ties result in no lynch. No lynch usually favors mafia. There is no wagon to analyze the next day. Also can be manipulated by mafia to save a teammate.
3. Ties result in random lynch between tied players. Guarantees a lynch, which in itself usually favors town. More pressure on everyone to vote, which in itself also favors town.

Summary:
1. Favors town
2. Favors scum
3. Favors town twice
I agree with this.

3. Is rule #2 and this favors town. This, to me, means that the balance shifts towards 6-3 rather than 7-2. (or towards stronger scum powers)

bessie wrote:Reason Rule #2 led me to two mafia instead of three: with nine players, a three man team with day chat could manipulate the vote too easily and force no lynch, maybe not D1, but possibly D2 if they all manage to survive to D2.

Wait, are you saying it’s the no-lynch tiebreaker part of rule #2 that lead you to this conclusion? That’s not the part you mentioned in your first post? The part you mentioned is that tying votes doesn’t stop the lynch.

Or are you just saying that a three man team is too powerful D2? Which is sort of independent of rule #2. As this is the case for each of the three scenarios you mentioned. (And slightly less so for rule #2 than for the other possible versions of rule #2.)
Hence my response:
plytho wrote:So it's more like rule #2 made you think about no-lynch and balance rather than it actually being in scum's favor?

Which should have been "So it's more like rule #2 made you think about tied votes and balance rather than it actually being in scum's favor?" But you suddenly mentioned no-lynch as a factor, which you didn't at first.

If it sounds like I’m misunderstanding things, please let me know.
With that off my mind, on to reads!

Btw, for the people I haven’t played with before: this is my 4th game. I played diablo, dark tower and shakespeare.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:46 am UTC

bessie wrote:Meta read on heuristically_alone: The style of this post is unlike previous games. Maybe he has a chat partner.
Did you feel 'forced' to do a meta-read of your own about heury? Could you be a bit more specific on how the style feels different?

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Znirk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:00 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@Znirk: please contribute more to the discussion.

I'm online, trying to kind of read along with events, but I'm at work. I can start a proper readthrough of goings-on so far in about 4-5 hours.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:15 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Meta read on heuristically_alone: The style of this post is unlike previous games. Maybe he has a chat partner.
Did you feel 'forced' to do a meta-read of your own about heury? Could you be a bit more specific on how the style feels different?
I personally notice a difference, but maybe just in the sense that heury is less of a newbie and his post content has improved since previous games.

I'm at work now but I should be able to do a bigger post this evening.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby plytho » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:17 pm UTC

Mix of impressions and questions/remarks.
flicky1991 wrote:
plytho wrote:Let’s not forget about the “unique roles for spice” that will “hopefully make the game more fun for everyone”. This makes me think that equating simple with standard "is" a mistake.
I interpreted those as two separate parts of the set up - the simple ones and the unique roles for spice. But you could be right, they might be one and the same - all unique roles but simple to understand.
My guess would be some unique, some standard, all simple.

LaserGuy wrote:I'm not saying plytho has great content yet, but I think accusation of active lurking was a bit strong this early in the game. I'm not really prepared to say more at this point... just getting a weird vibe from the two of them.
What do you mean 'not prepared'? Do you have more to say but you're not ready?

Peaceful Whale wrote:3. moody7277- pretty towny, but jumped on PW becuase of a joke vote.
What about moody's posts makes him look townie?

Peaceful Whale wrote:7. LaserGuy - I'd group him win Sabar and Bessie, they all seem to be pretty townie and active.
Active does not equal townie. Especially when you're talking about experienced players.

Peaceful Whale wrote:Well, here are my thoughts, I really don't know who to vote, I'm not the best at making reads, and I'm worried that if I do, I'll end up killing the apple or something.
You still need to vote by the end of the Day. You can't rely on other people having better reads and lynching scum for you because there's scum among those others. Figure out who looks scummy to you, try to explain why and vote for them. There's always a risk of lynching a townie but if townies are afraid to vote that risk increases.

Peaceful Whale wrote:Okay, I'll try to refrain from judge int Sabar too quickly, thanks for the advices
I think you’re misspelling Sabrar.
bessie wrote:
moody7277 wrote:Difference between 7/2 and 6/2/1 is greatly dependent on the nature of that 1.
And I'm still thinking about that 1.
Peaceful Whale wrote:Well, here are my thoughts, I really don't know who to vote, I'm not the best at making reads, and I'm worried that if I do, I'll end up killing the apple or something.
Peaceful Whale, you're doing great. The best way for you to help town is to talk, a lot, and get others to talk. Hmm, I find the last part of your quote quite interesting. Leads my scattered brain back to moody’s comment above.
You’re saying you think Peaceful Whale might be independent?

flicky1991: I haven’t played with him before. Nothing’s pinging me so far. He’s active, but as the most active forumite only inactivity would be a scum tell.

Heuristically_alone: I haven’t played with him before. Has no response to the joke-wagon (which is fine) but a pretty strong response when LaserGuy finds this “odd”:
LaserGuy wrote:heury didn't react at all to the fact that a wagon had pushed him to L-2 before he even confirmed. Odd.

heuristically_alone wrote:Why should I react to joke votes? Seems entirely pointless. Actually makes me worry about Laserguy a little already, like he is preparing an opening for a future possible lynch, which to me feels scummy. Then again he has played a lot of games as mafia so maybe thats the only way he knows how to act.
heuristically_alone wrote:@flicky
It was the fact that it was more of a (passive) attack from laserguy on me, not the actual analysis of what happened.
Odd..

LaserGuy: No pings, I like his content, he seems intent on pushing the game forward and getting content out of others.

Moody7277: I haven’t played with him before. Low on content so far, looking forward to those impressions.

Peaceful Whale: I haven’t played with them before. They feel like newbie town. If they were scum I’d expect them to be coached by their scummate(s). Their posts feel unfiltered.

Sabrar: I agree with everyone that Sabrar is hard to read D1 as his town and scum game tend to look the same. Nothing has been pinging me.

Znirk: Nothing yet.

bessie: Surprised me by calling me an active lurker based on a post 12 hours into the game. My first thought was that this was early game pushing to get a response. But she doubles down here:
bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I'm not saying plytho has great content yet, but I think accusation of active lurking was a bit strong this early in the game. I'm not really prepared to say more at this point... just getting a weird vibe from the two of them.
So, what would you consider active lurking? Does quoting a block of text and attaching “+1”, “dude, you read my mind”, or “QFT” count as content?

After I’ve elaborated and explained what I meant with “good question”.
My take on active lurking: it requires at least a larger amount of time and more than one ‘empty’ post. Quoting other people's remarks and saying you support them may not be solid content but it helps to let people know where you stand.

bessie wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:Bessie feels more pushy straight out of the gate than in previous games.
If you’re going to make a meta read on me, please give examples from previous games on which you’re basing this read, because we have played one game together.

Meta read on heuristically_alone: The style of this post is unlike previous games. Maybe he has a chat partner.

Like Sabrar I’d like you to explain this a bit more. I don’t really see what about the style may indicate a chat partner. (I haven’t played with heury before so that could explain it.) I do see how a meta read based on one game could lead you to think the read came from a possible chat partner. Is that what you mean?

Also, If you’re going to make a meta read on Heuristically alone, please give examples from previous games on which you’re basing this read, because you have played one game together. :wink:

Btw, I’ve also noticed more pushiness from bessie than usual, but perhaps that's because I'm the pushee?

Overall, I'm quite suspicious of bessie for the moment and I think it's more than OMGUS.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Peaceful Whale » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:24 pm UTC

@plytho I've only played one game so far, one which I screwed up badly in. And I feel anyone is town unless they do something obviously suspicious. Or if someone points something out.

Znrick could be scum lying very low, but I feel scum would at least post something, maybe questions to redirect townies. He maybe just is really busy.

Also, I'm sorry I'm back so late, it was midnight over here when you guys posted all that.
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Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby bessie » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:27 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:And did anyone seriously think my setup analysis was based solely on a reading of Rule #2? I'm quite suspicious of anyone that wants to try to push this.
Going back to my previous point if you only post part of your thought-process then don't act surprised when people assume that that's your whole case.
So if you think it is important to see my entire case in order to evaluate it, why did you selectively quote me? There were a couple of things I mentioned that led me to my setup speculation (and a couple of things I didn’t mention) and you selected one. I’ve let this go on a little because it is generating discussion. But don’t you think the thing I mentioned first might have influenced my thinking, maybe even more than something I mentioned later? You know, this isn’t my first game.

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Meta read on heuristically_alone: The style of this post is unlike previous games. Maybe he has a chat partner.
Did you feel 'forced' to do a meta-read of your own about heury? Could you be a bit more specific on how the style feels different?
I don’t feel forced to do anything. I posted a meta read on heury because I had a meta read on heury.

plytho wrote:Also, If you’re going to make a meta read on Heuristically alone, please give examples from previous games on which you’re basing this read, because you have played one game together. :wink:
Good catch. :wink:

I was expecting that comment from someone (Ok, it was Sabrar). Heury and I have played one game together. However, he played MMM II, which I comodded, and Bin Chicken, where I was LaserGuy’s mentor, so I feel like I have “played” three games with him, even though he has only played one with me.

What I find different in Heury’s post is that he presents reads of five players in the same post, and early in the game. I looked over the three games in which we were both involved, and I found only one example of a reads list of that type (did not yet have the opportunity to read other games). And the way in which that post was organized felt different to me then his usual posting style.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:
moody7277 wrote:Difference between 7/2 and 6/2/1 is greatly dependent on the nature of that 1.
And I'm still thinking about that 1.
Peaceful Whale wrote:Well, here are my thoughts, I really don't know who to vote, I'm not the best at making reads, and I'm worried that if I do, I'll end up killing the apple or something.
Peaceful Whale, you're doing great. The best way for you to help town is to talk, a lot, and get others to talk. Hmm, I find the last part of your quote quite interesting. Leads my scattered brain back to moody’s comment above.
You’re saying you think Peaceful Whale might be independent?
Yes. I thought the apple comment was an odd thing to say, but maybe he's just poetic and this is his style. Then I remembered we're all things in a refrigerator.

Running out of time. I've got a meeting this morning. I'll respond to everything else tonight.

Ninja'd.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:02 pm UTC

Ive been playing mafia on another site and the two things people keep telling me is that when I am mentioned (or found suspicious) I should react to it, which to me feels scummy which is why I typically don't react, and now ironically I got read into here when I gave in with a reaction haha. The second thing is starting to post player reads more.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby plytho » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:32 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:@plytho I've only played one game so far, one which I screwed up badly in. And I feel anyone is town unless they do something obviously suspicious. Or if someone points something out.
I understand, but you have to make sure to form your own opinion. Be aware that the people pointing things out could be scum. The only person you know for sure that is town is you.

Peaceful Whale wrote:Also, I'm sorry I'm back so late, it was midnight over here when you guys posted all that.

Don't worry about that, we are all in different time zones so there will always be people talking when others are sleeping/working.

heuristically_alone wrote:Ive been playing mafia on another site and the two things people keep telling me is that when I am mentioned (or found suspicious) I should react to it, which to me feels scummy which is why I typically don't react, and now ironically I got read into here when I gave in with a reaction haha. The second thing is starting to post player reads more.

I understand the second thing, reads list are helpful for detecting possible alignments, ergo scum. But always respond when you're mentioned seems weird. Like you say, it looks scummy when you get overly defensive.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby moody7277 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:53 pm UTC

Sabrar - joke vote bessie, and otheriwse very jovial before the heury joke vote incident. some setup spec, behvior notes on flicky and heury. interactions seem okay. townie.

plytho - joke votes LaserGuy, statement about tie votes, and some setup spec. some discussion with bessie over how scum would treat tie votes. starts getting into the weeds a little, but moves on to other players. town-to-scum list with PW and LaserGuy on top, bessie and heury on bottom. slightly townie.

Peaceful Whale - joke votes heury, then a flurry after me pointing out about the number of votes on heury. gives something like a reads list, but the final impressions are made ambiguous (I guess for dramatic effect?) only firm idea was a townie reading on Sabrar that he got talked out of. basically being new makes for a harder read, so neutral for now.

Heury - joke unvotes, calls on jester. doesn't react to joke votes (somewhat different from flicky's position)

heuristically_alone wrote:Bessie feels more pushy straight out of the gate than in previous games.


My guess is this is a hangover from her harangue with Sabrar from the previous game. defends comment as not a tell. comment on reaction to joke votes. aside from the bessie thing, not much outwardly directed, but then with three joke votes having been put on him that may make sense. neutral.

Znirk - joke votes no lynch (I hope *twitch*), small amount of setup spec, and a promise of more content. slightly scummy pending what's to come.

LaserGuy - 2nd joke vote on heury, with the caveat that scum would out themselves by speedlynching. compact reads list several people. setup spec that dismisses 3 scum. unvotes. questions PW on his Sabrar read. townie

bessie - concerned that I was too heavy with keeping an eye on PW for a breech in joke voting protocol (poersonally I think too heavy level would have started with FoSing him). some good analysis on the tie vote issue. show some concern about plytho lacking content. interactive with several players, including against LaserGuy defending plytho's short comments. townie

flicky1991 - joke votes Sabrar. some setup spec. against analysing joke votes (this was SDK's shtick, and he was pretty good with it, so I'm going to disagree with flicky here). neutral.

TOWN
bessie
Sabrar
LaserGuy
plytho
heury
Peaceful Whale
flicky
Znirk
SCUM
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - Pregame

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:44 pm UTC

Things stayed cool in the refrigerator. There is some finger pointing, and some stern looks but they knew they had time to make their decision. The family was out for lunch and wouldn't be home for hours.

But dinner was coming.


Current vote totals:

No Lynch - Znirk

Not voting - moody7277, Peaceful Whale, flicky1991, heuristically_alone, Sabrar, plytho, LaserGuy, bessie

9 Players Alive, 5 votes to reach majority and lynch.

Deadline is Tuesday 11am PDT in about 4 days.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:55 pm UTC

I don't quite understand your reads list, moody. You have many neutral reads so how did you decide which ones were more or less scummy?

Znirk's game play here doesn't feel any different than the last game he was in, rather active lurky. If memory serves, he was replaces out, correct?
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:02 pm UTC

Phone posting today so I probably won't be able to do detailed quotes.

@Sabrar, what is your read on bessie?

@heury, I don't think you need to or should react every time you are mentioned in the thread. I don't think you should completely ignore all content directed at you either. I found it odd that you didn't react to the initial vote because it was both about you and the most interesting thing that had happened in the thread to that point. So I was surprised you didn't comment. I think if you hadn't reacted to my further prompt on it, I would definitely have found it scummy.

@plytho, there was something more that I was thinking about but for weak meta reads I'd rather let them play out for awhile to see if patterns of behaviour develops.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:28 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar, what is your read on bessie?
Found her scummy due to a meta-read up until her last post. Currently feels same old town!bessie as before but with so little to compare to I treat this read with caution.

Was extremely busy at work, planning to re-read tonight and post more detailed thoughts.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:30 pm UTC

I understand what you mean for sure. I just didn't think anything of it seeing it as joke phase. More than anything l, made me feel important and special for being voted haha :lol: .

Anyhow, LaserGuy's interactions has me "slightly" leaning town on him.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:39 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:Znirk's game play here doesn't feel any different than the last game he was in, rather active lurky. If memory serves, he was replaces out, correct?


In his last game Znirk was inactive. He was replaced for personal reasons IIRC. This game he's definitely been reading the thread at least.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Znirk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:57 pm UTC

Mkay, game time.

Picking up from Plytho's similar declaration: I've been in 3-and-a-little games so far (Smalltown 2, Monstrous Masquerade 2, Diablo, and the beginning of Shakespeare 3 from which I disappeared with no warning. Sorry again to anyone who was in that game.)

- In my first post I picked on Moody for the Huery misspelling in a vote, but now that I reread, Whale did the same thing. Democratically, speaking, I think 2:1 votes means "get used to your new name" :)

- Whale asking for advice: sign of learning, but could also be a sign of looking for someone to follow. Slight indication that he may not have a chat, so that's like half a townie point. Forgets rules (edited post, which I would never have noticed hadn't someone else brought it up).

- Whale's reference to fear of "killing the apple": may just be role-playing creativity, but ... hm. Does Whale know another player's character name, and if so: how does he know, and why and what for does he drop it in the thread? Maybe a mechanic with two players looking for each other? Or some level of selective recruitability, like the nerd masons back in the last MMM? Peaceful Whale: it feels to me like there's something going on here, but not necessarily scumminess.

- Furthermore, if someone's character literally is the apple: flavourwise that doesn't sound like a good thing to me. In my kitchen experience an apple does not belong in the fridge - could be our indie in the hypothetical 6:2:1 setup.

- Sabrar: does a lot of the talking, which I think is normal in his case. Lots of reasoning by reference to earlier games; maybe a bit of overjustification going on? Guesses that there is no Jester, the specific rule is there as a kind of Mod quadruple-bluff. Difficult to read: is he being helpful getting content out there, or using his post volume to drive the discussion into specific directions? Sabrar: neutral (or: no) read

- Flicky: setup ideas. Warns against paying attention to the early burst of votes. Not sold on Heuristic's mildly unusual style indicating a different role than in earlier games. More content soon. Flicky: opinion reserved pending more of his opinions

- Plytho: accused of active lurking, but feels more like getting their bearings to me. Debates Bessie on the "tie rule -> setup speculation" issue. Sensible advice to Whale in terms of "don't just pick someone and follow". Plytho: I like the way he thinks, I think. Doesn't mean he's town though; maybe he's just good at this game.

- Moody: Spends early time on the joke-vote-all-the-way-to-L-2. Declares himself to be glad that lynching Jester causes a blanket roleblock, which looks very bad if taken out of context :) (I agree with him though: if there is a Jester, then on principle letting them win should have a disadvantage to town). Full and plausible reads list. Moody: leaning townish

- Heuristically Alone: sees no need to react to game start votes, even when they appear in unusual numbers. I don't like this post at all - both content and form are suspicious. An unformatted block of syntactically semi-coherent text containing the phrase "haha"? This feels defensive to me: like nervous scum posting something, anything, quickly. In this light, this earlier post doesn't look too great either. (Oh, wait, pre-post-edit: he just did the "haha" again, in a lower-pressure context. Is that good [apparently he just goes "haha" occasionally] or bad [he's nervous throughout now]?) Heuristically Alone: maybe it's just his style; but for now the scummiest-looking of them all.

- Laserguy: points out Heury's non-response to having three votes early on. Posits a weird Plytho-Bessie interaction, but I'm not really seeing it. Responds to people, engages on details, recently asks specific questions. Laserguy: Solidly town in my book, at least for now

- Bessie: Active player, with a somewhat stream-of-consciousness-ish writing style (but I'm the last person who can complain about that). There's the whole tie-resolution / number of mafiosi discussion. Calls out Plytho for posting what boils down to "Hmmm." Suspects Heury of having a chat partner based on writing style; so we have that much in common. Gets dragged into some discussion of past games. Also stumbled on Whale's "apple" comment. Bessie: seems OK, but also seems like the kind of player who could easily pull the wool over my eyes.

Summary: I'm not liking Heury. I think if there is an indie, I'd look at Whale. I'm liking Laserguy, Moody, and with some reservations Bessie and Plytho.

Also,

unvote

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:06 pm UTC

I started compiling a list of thoughts on each player and got "some discussion of setup" for half the list, so I'll forget organising by player and just put the things I found most notable:

Sabrar vs bessie - Seeing the debates between the two of them, I feel this is pretty normal for them. They seem to have had a thing going for a couple of games. Might tell us nothing - if town/town they are debating as usual, if town/scum then the scum side is keeping the debate going to make it look good, and if scum/scum then they know their reputations and are keeping it up (although I'd be very impressed if that were so).

Znirk - One post of speculation and then nothing. Then again, I see he's online now, so that might change. [Ninja'd: yes it did.]

Znirk wrote:Does Whale know another player's character name
I wondered the same thing, but didn't want to say anything in case it's not something anti-town. Scum would have daychat in a nightless setup so there's no need for scum to signal someone like that.

LaserGuy was the first to comment on the setup. plytho and moody had little content until they made reads lists. Peaceful Whale is definitely making the effort to play better this game (although, now that someone's pointed out more explicitly, I wouldn't mind hearing a clarification about the "apple"). heury's change in playstyle can be explained by his playing mafia elsewhere as he's stated.

...Oh, I guess I mentioned everyone after all.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:20 pm UTC

Let's start with the basics. As someone who spent all of X-men worrying about Peaceful Whale just for him to turn out to be newbie town after all I feel like I'm qualified to put him in the Town basket here as well as his style here is extremely similar to that one. I would be very much surprised if the 'apple' would be an in-game reference and I feel like anyone who focuses onto it too much is either misguided or deliberately attempting to generate useless content. Looking specifically at Znirk here who built up quite a big story from a single comment.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:25 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:Peaceful Whale is definitely making the effort to play better this game (although, now that someone's pointed out more explicitly, I wouldn't mind hearing a clarification about the "apple"). heury's change in playstyle can be explained by his playing mafia elsewhere as he's stated.

...Oh, I guess I mentioned everyone after all.


Unless you have some specific reason to think the apple comment is scummy, I think it's probably best to leave it be. Townies shouldn't be claiming anything at this point.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:27 pm UTC

While I am happy to see what reads from Znirk looks like, I do not like the fact that literally most everything he said has been said by somebody else. Not really any original content. His original case on me is also just a copy of what others had said. His only real original content is his analysis on my "haha" haha. I should screenshot my texts, I say haha as much as normal people say lol when texting. And I have only been phone posting thusfar. Seems like Znirk has found a player to target and now is trying to create scum reads on them, which to me feels scummy.

Ninja'd by Sabrar

My thought on Peaceful Whale's apple reference: my first thought was some sort of breadcrumb, but couldn't find any meaning there, so more likely an some attempt at flavor.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:33 pm UTC

Also I can't seem to find a game where Sabrar as scum got in arguments/discussions with his scum partner, so I highly doubt they are both scum. Sabrar feels like his normal town self, and I'd be willing to bet most the contents in the frige he is town, just because in both games I've seen him as scum I was a little suspicious d1 of him, but this game haven't been felt suspicious yet.

@bessie, if you were scum, who would you kill tonight?
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Peaceful Whale » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:40 pm UTC

...but if bessie says Sabar, and Sabar is killed tonight, it could mean two things...

1. Bessie is bad scum.
2. Mafia purposely killed Sabar in an effort to frame bessie. But it is pretty obvious that they did, clearing bessie as town.

I guess this helps, it's basically asking bessie, "who's on the top of your town list".

Does this help at all? Can someone tell me how? I would really like to get better at this.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:47 pm UTC

We rarely analyze the night-kill from this point-of-view i.e. who would have killed that specific player. There are a couple of things that influence this decision that have higher priority than personal preference, for example:
- scum usually wants to kill any power-roles Town might have so they are actively looking out for players who might have an ability
- scum wants to succeed with their kill. If they suspect that Town has Doctor they might not target the towniest player just because s/he is likely to get protected

By the way bessie would in no way be cleared as Town in your example, precisely because she could use the same point to argue that she is being set up.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Peaceful Whale » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:52 pm UTC

Oh... thanks, this is making a lot more sense now. Maybe I should just get a mentor or something.
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cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:04 pm UTC

Znirk's first post contains basically no relevant content. Has exactly 1 scum-read with a lot of wishy-washy neutral ones. Mostly summarizing content and providing only a few reasons for his reads, I've always been against that sort of thing. Currently finding him scummy, though his apparent willingness to reconsider the 'haha' thing is more indicative of town.

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@bessie: do you think that your incorrect read of heury in X-men might have an influence on your read on him here?

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:14 pm UTC

I feel like most players as town would tend to be more stubborn and stick to their guns, while mafia will be more willing to appear open minded. So for me I feel like showing a willingness to reconsider would be more scum indicative.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:24 pm UTC

bessie wrote:So if you think it is important to see my entire case in order to evaluate it, why did you selectively quote me? There were a couple of things I mentioned that led me to my setup speculation (and a couple of things I didn’t mention) and you selected one.
I didn't consider quoting the whole thing because it didn't feel relevant. Just because we don't have cult and you don't want Jester we could have any other roles so using those as a reason for guessing 7-2 or 6-2-1 didn't seem right.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:36 pm UTC

flicky has very little actual content as well and I still think he was defending LaserGuy for some reason.
flicky1991 wrote:...Oh, I guess I mentioned everyone after all.
This feels forced, his 'mention' of LaserGuy, plytho and moody is almost non-existent. Definitely scummy.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Peaceful Whale » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:47 pm UTC

Hmm, they may all be scum buddies, unlikely given as rule #2 exists, it would be too over powered, but could have boomfrog countered acted 3 scum by giving town extra powers? I'm beginning to think that this game may not have too many vanilla players and instead have more speacial abilities. (Hopefully not like X-Men). Things like forbidden fruit, maybe a watcher/jailer. I don't think their's a cop in this game, maybe a doctor. Any ideas on the other roles... ooh maybe unique roles?

boomfrog, how many hours until deadline?
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cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Peaceful Whale » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:52 pm UTC

Could it be possible the flicky has chat partners with one of them? It could be like last game, where two people had chat, and one was town and the other scum. Could it be possible that this is the same scenario? I doubt it's exactly the same.

Those three that Sabar mentioned are particularly high on my scum list... I'll add a complete list soon.
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cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:57 pm UTC

bessie: Lots of discussion on setup, particularly with plytho and Sabrar. Doesn't feel as townie as she often does to me. Makes some partial reads that seem plausible. Would like to see some full reads. Putting as neutral.

flicky: Defends me unnecessarily from heury. Notes heury posting style feels different, but speculates may just be heury improving. Adds a short list of player notes, though they're quite lacking in substance. Sabrar/bessie he reads as a null tell; Znirk had no content at the time; only comment on me is that I was first to mention the setup; Whale playing better, fishes at the apple comment; heury playstyle change is null. No real townreads or scumreads at this point, limited engagement in the thread. Don't care much for his content at all. Scummy.

heury: Has a weird meta that is a bit tricky to read. I think I'm mostly okay with how the early wagon shook out now. Good interactions overall. Giving him a town lean.

moody: Reaction to the wagon on Whale feels townie to me. Fairly lurky otherwise. Eventually posts a reads list, though it's mostly just a summary of each player's content with a town/neutral/scum read at the end, without really providing much of an explanation for how those were reached. No real scum reads at this point. Will have to go back and read some of moody's previous games to see what his meta looks like. Going to leave as neutral, I guess, with some reservations.

Peaceful Whale: Play is very similar to last game where he was town. Definitely making more of an effort to produce reads, asks some good questions. I don't really see any reason not to believe that Peaceful Whale is town at this point.

plytho: Spends a lot of time arguing with bessie about a specific point on the setup. I'll note that plytho did something very similar in Shakespeare III where he spent much of D1 arguing with jimbob about setup as well, and plytho was scum that game. Reads post looks okay, though plytho can make these as town as well as scum. I feel like this is more of plytho's scum meta rather than town, so I'm going to mark as scum lean on those grounds.

Sabrar: Discusses early wagon, setup spec, with reasonable points, though Sabrar is very methodical and logical as both town and scum, so null tell there. Engages mostly with bessie, with a few partial reads on other players. I'd like to see more opinions on the rest of the field. Neutral for now.

Znirk: Low content until big reads post. Reads look okay, though much like moody, more content summary than opinions, though he gives some solid analysis of a few players (eg. heury). Would like to see more engagement with other players, as it's very easy for scum to produce this type of list and have it look plausibly townie.

Vote flicky

Best read I have right now.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:00 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Hmm, they may all be scum buddies, unlikely given as rule #2 exists, it would be too over powered, but could have boomfrog countered acted 3 scum by giving town extra powers? I'm beginning to think that this game may not have too many vanilla players and instead have more speacial abilities. (Hopefully not like X-Men). Things like forbidden fruit, maybe a watcher/jailer. I don't think their's a cop in this game, maybe a doctor. Any ideas on the other roles... ooh maybe unique roles?

That's your second reference to fruit. Are you inferring that you may have one of these chats or any of the roles in play?
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:00 pm UTC

Edit: or know of any roles in play
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:06 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:Hmm, they may all be scum buddies, unlikely given as rule #2 exists, it would be too over powered, but could have boomfrog countered acted 3 scum by giving town extra powers? I'm beginning to think that this game may not have too many vanilla players and instead have more speacial abilities. (Hopefully not like X-Men). Things like forbidden fruit, maybe a watcher/jailer. I don't think their's a cop in this game, maybe a doctor. Any ideas on the other roles... ooh maybe unique roles?

That's your second reference to fruit. Are you inferring that you may have one of these chats or any of the roles in play?


Don't like this. Role fishing.

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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby moody7277 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:14 pm UTC

On the whole Peaceful Whale/apple thing, the first thing that came to my mind was lyncher.
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Re: Refrigerator Mafia - D1 - The Purge Begins

Postby Sabrar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:18 pm UTC

Keep nodding off, quick impressions of remaining players,:

- heury: feels pretty townie
- LaserGuy: need a more thorough review, something feels off
- moody: probably town though don't like the read-list
- plytho: looks very townie, Shakespeare must be kept in mind


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