Crossover Mafia | N4 | 10/19

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:02 pm UTC

Vote FrozenFlame
I feel after Zyth's case for himself being town this is probably scum, because it pointed out FF's post trying to mobilize votes towards me in a weird way.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:15 pm UTC

Zyth/Zen - Here goes for a whopper, and one I feel I need to do real justice to as a current gut scum read. My general feel for him through much of D1 is kind of a cross between SDK and Sabrar - Sabrar's post volumes combined with SDK's aggressive pushing style. I think I see his early point against heuristically_alone, but personally it wouldn't have got me voting, but that's likely a play style issue. He definitely posts a lot of opinions. In the early game, at least, they all seem pretty consistent, and most of them have some level of reasoning at least, even if I don't agree with all the points. Looking at it through Zyth's posts, I can definitely get behind his pressuring of heuristically_alone. I'm not a massive fan of him delegating trying to read another player to somebody else. This is lazy, in my opinion, and gives scum a chance to look like they're trying to figure things out without actually needing to construct a fake read. The fact that the player in question is moody looks worse. In isolation, I like points he makes such as this, as it shows that he's paying attention to what people are posting. This is an interesting comment, given his later-stated preference for lynching lurkers, and particularly Dark Horse.

@Zyth - What caused you to change your mind between the last comment linked to above and when you voted Dark Horse? Why did you feel the need to follow EGW?
#HBC | Zyth wrote:@Spak what are your thoughts on h_a, jimbob, Frozen, bessie, moody, and plytho?
What made you select these players in particular?

More townie points come from being willing to spend a lot of time trying to make sure he's got a correct read on Sabrar. Also, his advice towards Peaceful Whale re. claiming etc feels pretty townie (though it's relatively obvious, so not a major town point). After the weekend, we get into the whole "lynching lurkers is better than lynching scum" which is a major negative point in my opinion. This is a very good response even if it is unhelpful. That being said, I may have missed them, but I remember Zyth saying that he was working on reads as early as Saturday, but he still hadn't posted them well into the last portion of the day, which doesn't look great, in my opinion. He didn't explain at the time why he was holding off, from what I could tell either, which is being obstinate and unhelpful (aside - I'm reading Zyth's posts in isolation, and haven't got time to look at the context of every post, so it's possible one or more of his responses addressed this without me realising). When they do eventually appear, the explanations don't follow immediately, which is unhelpful, but I guess okay, as long as they do appear (which they do eventually). I've already made my concern known about how weak his case against me felt. I really don't understand his insistence on lynching Dark Horse immediately, rather than waiting until D2 at least, and a chance for replacements to be processed. I like his point in response to Ryu about hammering SirG. As others have pointed out, he was really working hard to try to get me lynched instead of moody, only apparently grudgingly accepting that moody would end up being lynched. I don't follow Zyth's reasoning in this post (see bolded section):
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:@sabrar, I'd never make it so obvious I were buddies with someone btw, especially over someone who has a high chance of being lynched.

The fact the moody and ruy were so easily wagonable tells me that if they are scum, their mates were willing to abandon them. The resistance to jim feels much more right.

1. Delicious wine.
2. What's your metric?

Youre the one that likes meta, Id never and have never done such a thing. If I were scum at this junture, then moody would undoubtably be town. Id be playing in a way similar to I am now that causes town to mislynch moody on their own, leaving my hands being scott free and with all the power and townie points d2.

2. The prevote tally thing we did, obviously.
@Zyth - Why did you only look at the town!mpolo case here? What would make him undoubtably town, if you were scum at this point? Why couldn't you be scum buddies?

Dang, this is taking a long time. I've been at this one player's read for an hour, and am getting close to not being able to concentrate. I've got to the end of Zyth's D1 content, and I definitely see a number of negative things against him, given moody's flip. Up to this point, I'm definitely leaving him in the scum pile. However, I will try to get back to and finish this read tomorrow or Friday, along with the others promised. *Sigh* - if I'm still alive by then, I'm looking forward to a few Days time when there weren't be a gazillion posts to re-read.

Updated groupings:
Town: EGW, Spak, Sabrar(?), Peaceful Whale, bessie, LaserGuy, mpolo, Madge, plytho
Somewhere in the middle - need to re-read latest content: Red Ryu
Lurkers sliding towards scum: heuristically_alone, Znirk
Scum, if second team present, otherwise town: FrozenFlame, maybe BoomFrog
Scum: Gamma Emerald, Zyth
Indy: Amrock

I'm pretty confident with most of my town reads (Madge, mpolo, LaserGuy, plytho, bessie, Spak, Peaceful Whale, but less so EGW and Sabrar pending re-reads), which by PoE means most of the rest must be scum, for balance to look right. That leaves GE, Zyth, FF, BF, RR, HA, Znirk to make up the numbers. Numbers balance would usually mean about somewhere around 6 or 7 scum, I reckon, of whom we've already killed one. As such, I'm basically happy with lynching any of this group, probably more so from the lower half of my above table though.
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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Madge » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:45 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I do not think you understand how order of actions work.

You hammer and your hammer is first, you cannot treestump in the middle of it unless the mod lets you. If you stump and try to hammer then you lose your vote and can't hammer.

At least that is how as a mod I would go about it, whichever actions goes first is the one to resolve and then I check the next actions to see what would be next.

I do appreciate the idea but I do not think it would work like this. If you can stump, sure but be aware of where and when you will.


Sorry, I wasn't clear: I just meant that I would hammer and in the process of doing so, I would be a tree stump, and when I try to vote _the next day_, my vote won't be counted, thus proving I wasn't lying about the tree stump thing.

Nothing else to say rn, hopefully my workday today won't be hectic (it might be though) and I can keep an eye on the thread.
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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:29 pm UTC

@EGW: What's your current read of FrozenFlame?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:37 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:mpolo read the game.

Znirk, h_a, Spak

jim, Ruy, mpolo

These players aren't doing anything. Perhaps the active posters slow down posting so that they can get caught up.

I just got to the end of page 28 and I need to stop to reply to the 10-15 quotes I've pulled out over the last two RL days. Hopefully later this week I can get ahead of this but this weekend I'm going camping so I don't think I'll be able to be very proactive this day phase. A shame since I'm one of the stars of the show.

Agreed with Zyth, Znirk, h_a, Spak and jim need to weigh in on LaserGuy's case on Zyth and EGW's case on me at least. Can someone with more free time then me please quote ping them asking them to do that? (I think the other two have weighed in but someone can check, I'm going from memory.)

Judgement: Amrock
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:49 am UTC

I'm going to reply to quote pings first, I think this is going to end up in reverse order. Sorry.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog - are you willing to disclose your fourth scum candidate yet? Given the flip and D2 content, what are your updated thoughts on players?

It is plytho. He's spending a lot of time responding to mechanical questions and throwing out accusations but he's not pushing anything. He's just mud slinging and hoping something sticks.

@Zyth: take another look at plytho. He generates a lot of content but it's not actual helping. Don't let him get townie points only for quantity.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:05 am UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Let's chat about this stuff.

1) Need to refresh on this, why was PW more of a focal point and scummy at the time and seemed for you to be more of a priority? If you had questions to Sabrar wouldn't pressure there with questions be better?
2) right but the issue here is the fact you seem to be calling people scummy but then placing your vote somewhere else. In this situation, what in particular would make whale more of a priority if you think FF was worth looking into?
3) no issues here.
4) none here.
5) Right but this is where one of my main problems with your slot is overall.

1 and 2) PW is a noob. FF and Sabrar are vetrans. I'm not going get anything out of them with a day start random vote but PW might actual feel the pressure. I put my vote where it's useful to put it to generate good content. Then at the end if the day I put it on scum.
5) It's all about the wagon-omics. The Moody lynch was too easy. Way too many people were on bored way to easily. But then Moody just gave up and started being blatantly scummy. I think by the time I voted he was already being bussed. Hopefully I'll have time to actually analyse the wagon this day phase, although I was expecting more flips to work with.

@jimbob I forgot to say last post: I agree, reading you and Moody as buddies was lazy. You were both scummy but there's no way we ended up with two scum buddies as the lunch candidates D1 in a 20 man game. I was just looking at you two individually, be not actually considering the ramifications of you both being scum.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:31 am UTC

Vote Frozen

I guess I agree with Zyth. This feels right. Will give details in a bit.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:18 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:Perhaps. But without the claim, do you think Madge could get away with this?

D1, almost for sure. Sabrar would have fought very hard against anyone who tried. I think BoomFrog probably would have as well. Later days, I don't know. In Shakespeare, Madge softclaimed early and was otherwise acting pretty scummy for basically the whole game. Sabrar consistently defended her to the very end of the game, and his read on her was right. I don't think I've actually played a game where Madge hasn't claimed something early, now that I think about it.
Yes but it was partially because Madge claimed and both of them have a meta read on Madge that she overclaims as town.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: Gosh I'm so annoyed by Sabrar.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You have just described my entire history with Sabrar. :lol: :lol: :lol: Sabrar….annoying… :lol: :lol: :lol: But serriously, I hope you aren’t really planning on disappearing for the next four days. Ok, back to work. :) No, wait. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:
bessie wrote:Red Ryu, don’t be so quick to brush off LaserGuy’s content. If he wrote it before he got his role pm, it’s useful because it’s written from the point of view of not-mafia.


I don't think you understand my concern.

My problem with this, and I really dislike it when players do this, is that it tells me nothing about there alignment. They wrote that content without any sort of consideration of what alignment they rolled. They could be town, mafia, or indy and that content would be the same for all we know.
Ok, I think I understand what you’re saying. Note that if LaserGuy was scum he could have posted the reads without telling us he did them before he received his role pm. Anyway, what I meant was that it is useful as a read list from a non-mafia perspective, not necessarily as something to read LaserGuy’s alignment. Red Ryu, I also analyze dead townie’s content (I have not analyzed Magen’s content because I’m already overwhelmed this game) but I don’t think many others do this someone tried to accuse me of active lurking for it before (I don’t remember where right now).

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Bessie post is weird and I don't get why those scum picks are what they are.\
These were the two players I was starting to zero in on toward the end of D1, see this post, jimbobmacdoodle for scummy content, and plytho for scummy content.

plytho wrote:Bessie answered my question here but skipped a bigger post here that has some open questions. On second thought (after I've spent too much time on this post thinking about what bessie's problem is with my response to PW's claim) I'll leave the proper read for after my questions are answered. The OMGUS is too much right now and the answers to those questions could be revealing.
Well Ok, let's see what I missed.

plytho wrote:Re: Peaceful Whale’s soft claim and my response vs bessies
bessie wrote:As I am not the brightest or most clever player in this game, I’m sure that anything I noticed would also be noticed by everyone else.
I disagree with this on principle. I think, especially in a game as large as this one (but also in general), that it’s very easy for this kind of public information to get lost to some townies.
Some numbers for clarity: (assuming 5 scum and 15 townies for easy maths)
If 1 in 5 people notice A, all scum will know A and around 12 townies will miss it.
If 3 in 5 people notice B, all scum will know B and around 6 townies will miss it.
If 9 in 10 people notice C, all scum will know C and 1 or 2 townies might miss it.

So making sure this information is known by everyone is the townie thing to do in. That’s what I was getting at.
Active lurking fluff.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Can you point to the response in question? I’m getting lost trying to hunt down stuff.
This response:
bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Um, you know, scum probably has a kill. And they know who the claimed redirector is. They have a few chances to hit him before town has enough info to make a good guess on who to redirect to SirGabriel.
I know. What are you trying to say here?
I’m implying that you are active lurking.
You're not implying I’m active lurking. If you think I am active lurking, you should say so (like you did last game). Here you’re engaging with my argument. Not really the thing to do if you think I’m deliberately avoiding posting relevant content.
OK I'll say it. You’re active lurking.

plytho wrote:Instead you have a sort of counter argument that doesn’t address the points I’m trying to make. I’m saying scum likes the lynch plan over the redirect plan. You’re saying scum isn’t that worried about the redirect? Why is that a counter argument to the points I’m making?
Why are you trying to draw me in to a discussion of your SirGabriel plan? Haven’t you discussed this to death with enough other people already? I stopped having an interest in the “how can we lynch SirGabriel” discussion quite a while ago, and I would have hammered him myself if everyone decided we needed to lynch him.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Pick for scum partners at end of D1: plytho and jimbobmacdoodle.
Did you consider moody’s flip when making this assessment?
No. This read is independent of moody’s flip.

Back to quote on p 31 here.
plytho wrote: I felt you were trying to sweep PW’s claim under the rug, which I think is a scummy thing to do.
I disagree. I feel that trying to divert attention from a newbie townie’s overeager claim is a townie thing to do, and drawing attention to it is a scummy thing to do. So plytho why was it so important to point this out? Were you making sure the other theoretical scum team saw this too?

plytho wrote: I was never fishing for role mechanics or targets. I was trying to find out what your problem was with me pointing out PW’s claim. Sorry I failed to grasp that this was your problem. It’s far from obvious to me. And I didn’t keep pushing it. I asked for clarification and instead of answering you got pissed off. I just didn’t understand the rolefishing accusation because I didn’t even see anything to fish for.
BFS. You’re still fishing. Or active lurking. Which is it?

Just leaving the following where I can find it later:
plytho wrote:My impression was that you were trying to sweep his claim under the rug. That’s what I was getting at. So to clear up a discussion between You and Zen. I wasn’t joking about you being displeased with claims. I was serious about you looking like you were trying to hide PW’s claim.
I thought PW made himself a possible NK target with that claim. So I wanted to make sure everyone (specifically people with protective powers) saw that claim. I also felt like PW had pretty much claimed his power so when you posted
bessie wrote: I recommend that for now, you do not claim or discuss your power.
in her reads list I thought you were trying to downplay the claim. Why downplay the claim? So scum can take out PW without interference from protectors.


Sabrar, I think I might be ready for that tunnel you’ve been waiting for.

Vote: plytho

Will pick up on page 31 in a while.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:06 am UTC

bessie wrote:Ok, I think I understand what you’re saying. Note that if LaserGuy was scum he could have posted the reads without telling us he did them before he received his role pm. Anyway, what I meant was that it is useful as a read list from a non-mafia perspective, not necessarily as something to read LaserGuy’s alignment.


I already said this twice but to repeat: my reads were written after receiving my role. My notes (the post full of spoilers nobody read) were taken before I got my PM.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:11 am UTC

LaserGuy: Null. His posts aren't really memorable to me. I still need to see a full reads list from him.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:13 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:Why? I agree with Bessie that Znirk isn't main mafia since he slipped not in mafia chat. He could be traitor but I don't think so, what with the know-it-all role.


Can you quote this? I just don't see any effort to find scum from him. His first post seems good, yet if you put that alongside the fact he doesn't have good content to go with it, it seems like he was just posting that for appearances.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:16 am UTC

Boomfrog: Don't forget to reply to me as well. I want to see your explanation, especially for the roller coaster point.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:42 am UTC

I'll respond to others tomorrow. I will be working on my reads and post them by Friday. For now, I'm going to sleep.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:57 am UTC

plytho wrote:BoomFrog: Gut read before going into this: BoomFrog was early on moody (+ townie points) but he’s said some strange things and others seem to be suspicious of him(- townie points).

Thoughts and questions in spoiler:These two posts kind of demonstrate what I find suspicious about the SirG lynch plan, particularly the latter.
The first of the two posts is rather innocuous. Yes, ideally the scum read would hammer. The second post directly contradicts the mods statement about GLaDOS.

@ BoomFrog:Why didn’t you believe that threat? It’s mod confirmed and there were no counter claims.

In context I think what I meant was clear but maybe not. Sir G had claimed first on the wagon might die, I didn't believe that part. I believed the hammerer would die, but before my vote people were apprehensive about bring the first vote as well, so I volunteered to be first.

Btw, I'm feeling better about you. You just keep saying things I agree which is a good sign.

@Bessie, and Sabrar: in bin chicken, plytho was town right? Did he do this passive mud slinging thing as town as well?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:07 am UTC

Well on mobile I can't seem to click the link for pings after the fifth oldest one. I'm going to go through my quotes and I'll eventually get to them I'm sure. Looks like one is from EGW and one is from Bessie. EGW I got for sure in the pile here.

LaserGuy wrote:@BoomFrog: In recent games we’ve played together, you’ve often been more “cagey” than I’m seeing you play here. How is your approach different this game from some of the previous ones?

I adjust my play based on the situation. With XKCDers I have a reputation that allows me to get away with some shenanigans for a day cycle or two before people get suspicious of me. But I knew a bunch of new people wouldn't give me so much credit. So I need to play more openly. Relatively openly that is, compared to my usual play. I'm still getting flak for my style anyway.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:11 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I think Judgement voting Amrock is a good thing to do, it deals with our problem of Sirg slot giving people double votes which would in a way, block their votes if they don't want him to win. I do think Madge should test her treestump claim though, that is very important.

Judgement vote: Amrock
I did get to where LaserGuy pointed this out, so ignore me if this was answered but why do you want Madge to suicide for you? She is so clearly town it's painful. Same question to Sabrar and anyone else who supported testing this. I saw plytho's answer, which I believe.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:14 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: If Zyth is scum, who are his scumbuddies?
moody

What? why are you answering with the obvious?

Again, if this had been answered already just ignore me, but could you lay out how many scum you think are on Moody's team and who you would guess they are? And do you think there is a second team, how big and who?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:17 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:My read on jimbob is a scumread, though for different reasons than before. I feel the wagon shift off of him near EoD was fairly gross.
Do you think scum shifted the wagon from scum to scum?

LOL
I was still working from the day 1 thoughts I had, not thinking to fact check with the scum flip
This is actually a big "town: slip" from Gamma. He had a theory that he didn't reevaluate in light of the flip. That shows he really didn't know Moody's alignment.

@plytho: you took this the completely opposite way. You implied this is a scum slip. Do you agree with my logic now?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:22 am UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Are we claiming now? Or should I wait?

Normally you would breadcrumb your result in a way that was not obvious now but would be obvious after your role is revealed. Unfortunately, roles are not fully revealed so we won't know your role details and also you are demonstrably very likely to mess up trying to bread crumbs and would probably accidentally beak the roles against using codes.

So, if you can prove someone is town I think you should reveal it near the end of the day cycle. Don't say details about how your role works. Just say, "from my role's result I am XX% sure YYY is town."
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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 | 9/16

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:40 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Boomfrog:

1) You seem to have misunderstood why I found Sabrar scummy. I disagreed when he said "now that's scummy". But I didn't vote for Sabrar because I wanted to keep my vote and pressure on PW. By the time I had RL time to post again Sabrar had revealed his extra info which justified his vote so my opinion went back to pretty much neutral on him.


You didn't vote Sabrar nor did you interact or question him either. There was no desire to sort him. You could have easily voted PW and either FOS Sabrar and/or questioned him. There is no thought progression there.

2) There's no contradiction. FF could be scum on a different team than PW, they could be the same team and FF overreacted to distance, or I could be wrong (at that time) and PW is town and FF scum. Finding someone scummy doesn't mean everyone who attacks them is town. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.


We have clues to see that there is a two scum teams for you to make such a confident assumption, especially near early game. Being wrong doesn't invalidate that you have a contradiction. While being wrong you would still have to for some reason believe scum!FF is jumping on scum!PW. So if you are offering that as a possibility. Did you think it was FF overreacting to distance?

3) I stick by my assessment of mpolo.


You are not going to comment on how it was too early in the game to make such an assumption? I want you to state why it was ok to base his tendency of 'being distant as indy' so early in the game without having time to notice him do that.

4) At that time I didn't have a read on half the players in the game.


Point is, you mentioned you were going to re-read a player you never initially read in the first place. Then you suddenly seemed to have a confident read on him.

5) You didn't say this, but I dragged my heels at the end of D1 to change over from Red to Moody. I was concerned that you (EGW) were leading me to lynch a bad looking townie and saved your scum buddy Red. Then Moody had his terrible updated read list and offered to basically vote anyone besides himself and showed a complete lack of scumhunting. Actually, you trying to switch from moody to Spak or Red made me feel better about staying on moody.


You seemed like you were trying to undermine my switch to Moody at the point, when there was no reason for you to say that I had said more negative things of Ryu then Moody. Underlined is a weak justification for your %70 confidence.

Your whole post feels like you had a conclusion first then found the evidence second. What was it that made you pick me out of everyone else?


I re-read the game as thoroughly as I could (Which included some questions to people). I had originally scumread you and dropped my push earlier yet I noticed more of the same problems from you. Less of an attempt to sort people (Sabrar, Moody, Jimbob) and reading with Moody's flip in mind helped as well. As I was reading I took notes, then I proceeded to make the case on you. So it's not like it came out of no where, I have had progression with you, and my concerns and points are valid. (Which I give you the chance to explain)

Your progression sounds ligitimite. I belive your coming from a townie place here so I'm putting in the effort:

1) Partial explained earlier. Sabrar (and Bessie fyi) I'm not going to get a good read on by questioning them. Their play is very methodical as town or scum. I'll only get a read on them by watching their actions. Dinner people can be pressured, some cannot. Questioning Sabrar would have been just a distraction in an already busy game. I planned to give Sabrar scum points in my partial read list but by then he'd justified himself and returned to neutral. Hence the rollercoaster comment.

2) All I'm saying is that FF's comment felt off and therefore scummy. Is so weak early reads at that point, I'm not going to pick out the scum team from those little pings, but they are points of interest in who to keep an eye on.

3) mpolo was already distant at that point. He hadn't replied to many people taking about him.

4) In read the thread through once, I try to not go back because I don't have that kind of time anymore. "Reread" meant, reread Moody's post in isolation as in read them a second time. I didn't have an initial "read" of Moody as in opinion of alignment. I was unsure of his alignment until his second reads list which had several inconsistencies indicative of someone just trying to please the crowd, not actually read people.

5) I was trying to undermine your Moody lynch, it was suspiciously strong. The underlined was not my justification for my 70% read. My read came from Moody's read list. Roughly the point when I asked Bessie to reread Moody is the point I had decided to switch to Moody. Your willingness to change was just a nice reassurance that kept my confidence high.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:44 am UTC

Yay, found the Bessie one in the pile. Last one for the night.
bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Regarding Bessie: I'm suprised that she didn't pick up on the mpolo thing. She noted it, but she didn't feel it odd that mpolo's "data was lost". I'm leaning slightly scum which makes me sad. :( .
Please explain why I’m now leaning scum. Is it because I did not read moody exactly the way you wanted me to read him?
Yes.

You noted that his mpolo read was odd but didn't note it was scummy. Why?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:13 am UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:Re: Peaceful Whale’s soft claim and my response vs bessies
bessie wrote:As I am not the brightest or most clever player in this game, I’m sure that anything I noticed would also be noticed by everyone else.
I disagree with this on principle. I think, especially in a game as large as this one (but also in general), that it’s very easy for this kind of public information to get lost to some townies.
Some numbers for clarity: (assuming 5 scum and 15 townies for easy maths)
If 1 in 5 people notice A, all scum will know A and around 12 townies will miss it.
If 3 in 5 people notice B, all scum will know B and around 6 townies will miss it.
If 9 in 10 people notice C, all scum will know C and 1 or 2 townies might miss it.

So making sure this information is known by everyone is the townie thing to do in. That’s what I was getting at.
Active lurking fluff.
Calling this ‘active lurking fluff’ shows me you’re not trying to pay attention to my points. This reasoning, that I strongly believe in, is the reason I pushed you on PW’s claim. This is a point where we disagree on principle and that explains why we have a very different read on the same situation. Don’t just dismiss this as fluff.

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Can you point to the response in question? I’m getting lost trying to hunt down stuff.
This response:
bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Um, you know, scum probably has a kill. And they know who the claimed redirector is. They have a few chances to hit him before town has enough info to make a good guess on who to redirect to SirGabriel.
I know. What are you trying to say here?
I’m implying that you are active lurking.
You're not implying I’m active lurking. If you think I am active lurking, you should say so (like you did last game). Here you’re engaging with my argument. Not really the thing to do if you think I’m deliberately avoiding posting relevant content.
OK I'll say it. You’re active lurking.
Too late now. If you think I’m active lurking, say so right away, so I can argue why I don’t think it is. Point out that I’m active lurking so I can’t hide anymore. Instead, you do the opposite, you engage my argument, encouraging me to keep talkin about it.

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:Instead you have a sort of counter argument that doesn’t address the points I’m trying to make. I’m saying scum likes the lynch plan over the redirect plan. You’re saying scum isn’t that worried about the redirect? Why is that a counter argument to the points I’m making?
Why are you trying to draw me in to a discussion of your SirGabriel plan? Haven’t you discussed this to death with enough other people already? I stopped having an interest in the “how can we lynch SirGabriel” discussion quite a while ago, and I would have hammered him myself if everyone decided we needed to lynch him.
Ha, I’m not trying to draw you into it. You stepped into it yourself. I had no beef with you on SirG but you felt the need to comment on it.

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Pick for scum partners at end of D1: plytho and jimbobmacdoodle.
Did you consider moody’s flip when making this assessment?
No. This rcead is independent of moody’s flip.
So you’re confident that there are two scum teams? Does the jimbob-plytho connection make you confident about the two scum teams, or is it something else?

bessie wrote:Back to quote on p 31 here.
plytho wrote: I felt you were trying to sweep PW’s claim under the rug, which I think is a scummy thing to do.
I disagree. I feel that trying to divert attention from a newbie townie’s overeager claim is a townie thing to do, and drawing attention to it is a scummy thing to do. So plytho why was it so important to point this out? Were you making sure the other theoretical scum team saw this too?
See, this is why you shouldn’t dismiss my reasoning as ‘active lurker fluff’. It was important to point out so town knows what’s going on. I wasn’t considering the two scum team scenario (which, I admit, makes my strategy weaker). By drawing attention to it I make sure all the townies notice it. Scum already noticed it. (See our disagreement in principle above.)
bessie wrote:
plytho wrote: I was never fishing for role mechanics or targets. I was trying to find out what your problem was with me pointing out PW’s claim. Sorry I failed to grasp that this was your problem. It’s far from obvious to me. And I didn’t keep pushing it. I asked for clarification and instead of answering you got pissed off. I just didn’t understand the rolefishing accusation because I didn’t even see anything to fish for.
BFS. You’re still fishing. Or active lurking. Which is it?
Neither. I don’t know what to say about this anymore. I spent a lot of time on this trying to make myself understood and I get the impression you’re not making any effort to follow my reasoning. Instead of reading what I post you just seem to dismiss anything I write as ‘fishing’ or ‘active lurking’. This is immensely frustrating. I feel like I’m still in OMGUS, your responses to my arguments feel very weak.

bessie wrote:Just leaving the following where I can find it later:
plytho wrote:My impression was that you were trying to sweep his claim under the rug. That’s what I was getting at. So to clear up a discussion between You and Zen. I wasn’t joking about you being displeased with claims. I was serious about you looking like you were trying to hide PW’s claim.
I thought PW made himself a possible NK target with that claim. So I wanted to make sure everyone (specifically people with protective powers) saw that claim. I also felt like PW had pretty much claimed his power so when you posted
bessie wrote: I recommend that for now, you do not claim or discuss your power.
in her reads list I thought you were trying to downplay the claim. Why downplay the claim? So scum can take out PW without interference from protectors.

When you get back to this, make sure to check my ‘active lurker fluff’.

Feel free to slap a big ‘active lurkfisher’ sticker on this post so I know I shouldn’t engage you anymore.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:24 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@Bessie, and Sabrar: in bin chicken, plytho was town right? Did he do this passive mud slinging thing as town as well?
plytho did no such thing in Bin Chicken. Then again he didn't do anything else either, seeing that he didn't play in that game. He played in Fridge but you modded that so you don't need our help figuring it out.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:27 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:I’m worried about this statement from Gamma:
Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah, with a vigilante, only one kill seems to be disproving a multiple team theory.
considering he was the likely vig target of maven. I don't think the presence of a vig influences the likeliness of two scum kills.

Gamma Emerald wrote:Also going to state Sabrar and PW have entered my townreads. I have 7 so far. My personal guess for amount of scum is 5-6, leaning towards 5, so these townreads could eventually help develop a rudimentary PoE for me to use.
Who are the other 5 and what does PoE mean? (I'm aware of Path of Exile and Power over Ethernet but they don't fit the context.)
Think about how fast numbers could go down. If the vig misfires and no crossteam kills occur, as well as no repeated kills, that 4 dead in the night (vig sgot + vig plus scum A kill + scum B kill). Also, what does me being the target have to do with anything?
That's a good point. Looking at those numbers two scum teams to seem unlikely. I was looking from an attempted kills vs succeeded kills pov. (See my read on you.)

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:@ BoomFrog:Why didn’t you believe that threat? It’s mod confirmed and there were no counter claims.

In context I think what I meant was clear but maybe not. Sir G had claimed first on the wagon might die, I didn't believe that part. I believed the hammerer would die, but before my vote people were apprehensive about bring the first vote as well, so I volunteered to be first.
That wasn't clear to me from context. Point to you.

BoomFrog wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: If Zyth is scum, who are his scumbuddies?
moody

What? why are you answering with the obvious?

Again, if this had been answered already just ignore me, but could you lay out how many scum you think are on Moody's team and who you would guess they are? And do you think there is a second team, how big and who?

I answered that before here and I’m a bit annoyed at Gamma for snipping the others out of that quote. I’m working on the assumption that there’s one team. People I think possibly on that team are Gamma, Zen and to a lesser degree bessie. I’m not sure who’d be on the second team. Not the three I just mentioned. I’d need to take a better look at the moody wagon.

BoomFrog wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:My read on jimbob is a scumread, though for different reasons than before. I feel the wagon shift off of him near EoD was fairly gross.
Do you think scum shifted the wagon from scum to scum?

LOL
I was still working from the day 1 thoughts I had, not thinking to fact check with the scum flip
This is actually a big "town: slip" from Gamma. He had a theory that he didn't reevaluate in light of the flip. That shows he really didn't know Moody's alignment.

@plytho: you took this the completely opposite way. You implied this is a scum slip. Do you agree with my logic now?

Could be a town slip, but I just can’t imagine a townie not being aware of the lynch flip. It could just as well be scum!Gamma thinking ‘I was pushing some people late D1, time to push them again’. (I don’t have much time now, will reevaluate later.)

I should be back in about 9 hours.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:40 am UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:
mpolo wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
mpolo wrote:Really annoyed with a "not doing anything" when I put several hours into reading this thread today and produced a long post. (Just spent another hour reading the end of the day.) If it is absolutely required to get a post in every 2-3 hours you can just lynch me, because I do have a life outside the forum.
I'm so sorry. I'm the one that needs to read. I misread your post asking me about my claim. I thought you were asking me about n0. Yes, I used it n1 as well: on George.

I don't think I'm being too defensive. Two of the first few posts as soon as the day started were giant walls against me. Could you go through and tell me which points you think are valid against me and which points you think I've nullified or cleared up? I find it troublesome that I'm one of your scum reads when I was your strongest town read going into the night. What about my play did you not like at the end of the day? You have jim in your scum reads so I'm really confused here. It looks to me like you are just trying to line up with consensus despite not actually reading me as scum.


Towards the end of the day you got extremely fixed on lynching lurkers, even to the point of saying that lynching any lurker (logically including a townie) is objectively better than lynching scum. This rubs me very much the wrong way. Then there's some flailing for lynch targets. I understand to some extent, because the day was nearing end and consensus was hard to get. Sorry, the hospital claimed "Many of our rooms have free Internet", but mine had nothing -- no WiFi in sight, no Ethernet ports. Otherwise, I could have been of more help then. The consensus did have a major effect on my feelings on you, obviously -- I already said that I hadn't read the last couple of pages of D1 until my last post, so I was definitely colored by other people's analyses. When people I am tending to trust post, I do allow their analysis to color my thinking. Of course a Sabrar-EGW scum team could have made lots of plans during the long night to frame someone.

Posting this before reading the posts under this so as not to miss it. More in a moment, probably. Double Ninja not read yet.


What exactly makes a lurker more likely townie?

I've lynched lurkers before and they have flipped scum.



Obviously lurkers can be scum. And active lurkers are more often than not scum. "Post once and disappear" lurkers could be anything. It's basically equivalent to a blind lynch. At certain points there is an advantage to get rid of baggage, certainly, but I usually don't see it as our first priority. Our first priority is to get rid of scum.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:41 am UTC

Quick thought on my bike: what is a town slip even supposed to be? Without providing role info I don't think town can slip. Scum would be townslipping all over the place.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:42 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:why do you want Madge to suicide for you? She is so clearly town it's painful. Same question to Sabrar and anyone else who supported testing this.
Where do you get this from? I'm arguing against it here.
Getting a feeling of lazy!BoomFrog here.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:48 am UTC

plytho wrote:Quick thought on my bike: what is a town slip even supposed to be? Without providing role info I don't think town can slip. Scum would be townslipping all over the place.
Town slip is a comment that is unlikely to come from a scum because they know better (have the info). Asking whether mafia has day-chat is a town slip.
Now as you say these can be faked, so we have to evaluate whether the slip is genuine. In that regard they are like a second type of 'read', do you think that for that particular player that particular slip is valid or not? Is it too subtle to be faked or is scum just screaming for attention "look at me, I can't be scum, scum would obviously know this".

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:49 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:@Bessie, and Sabrar: in bin chicken, plytho was town right? Did he do this passive mud slinging thing as town as well?


plytho did no such thing in Bin Chicken. Then again he didn't do anything else either, seeing that he didn't play in that game. He played in Fridge but you modded that so you don't need our help figuring it out.


plytho was scum in Fridge. He hasn't been Town since Dark Tower, where he was killed N1. And it looks like he probably scum here again. His scum meta is going to be almost as bad as mine pretty soon.

plytho wrote:Quick thought on my bike: what is a town slip even supposed to be? Without providing role info I don't think town can slip. Scum would be townslipping all over the place.


Here's an example of a legitimate towntell from Madge back in Shakespeare. The way that Madge is talking about her conversation with the mod, it's very obvious that she doesn't have nightchat. Scum can fake towntells, like, say, someone loudly proclaiming that they don't have chat in a game where mafia have daychat. Odd that you don't remember these.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:01 am UTC

Thanks, Sabrar. Yeah, Laserguy, I'm familiar with town tells. Town slip seemed like a strange way to say it.

It's obviously weird for scum or town to say what Gamma said. I still think it's more likely to come from scum.

Scum!Gamma knows moody is scum when he's making that accusation D1. And still knows that moody is scum D2. The information doesn't change.

Town!Gamma doesn't know that moody is scum D1. By D2 he does. The information did change.

I think in the latter case it's less likely that this would be forgotten than in the former.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:14 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Speaking of which:
Can we get a prod on heuristically_alone?

Seconded. Also on Znirk please.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:05 am UTC

Continuing, page 31.

Sabrar wrote:This is from another game, very little info but better than nothing, explained later (also Town).
Oh ffs I clicked that first link and for the first time I was aware of Madge’s breadcrumb. :oops:

Peaceful Whale wrote: Does he mean if I know he’s scum to not ell people about it? I’m just confused.
Peaceful Whale, if you have an investigation result (watcher, cop, tracker, etc) and it directly implicates scum, you should probably reveal it. For example, if you are a cop and you got a mafia result on bessie, you should announce it in thread. But by doing so, you also announce that you are a cop, and you make yourself a night kill target. If you have a result that does not directly implicate scum (a town result or something inconclusive) you should not reveal it unless it is necessary to save that person from the lynch. You can breadcrumb results for players to find later in case you die (if you want to), but this can be tricky, so you need to be very careful if you decide to do this. Some of us are not very good at breadcrumbs, so we don't leave them and rarely see them. :oops:

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:
bessie wrote:
Madge wrote:@bessie: I think my claim plus my meta is keeping me alive atm. I'm not enjoying the pace of this game (SO MUCH TO READ), so it's hard to stay motivated with all the walls of text happening.
Yes, but I’m wondering why LaserGuy thinks your claim is not helping keep you alive, because to be quite honest, your content has not been super duper ultra townie spectacular so far this game. He does have a meta townie read of you here, despite you feeling kind of scummy to him.

Refresh me on this, has it? I might be forgetful on this given going back and forth at work on this.
I covered this in my last post. I think Madge’s claim kept her from being a serious lynch candidate. It seems to me that LaserGuy disagreed, saying that BoomFrog and Sabrar were defending her based on meta. I pointed out that their meta read is that Madge overclaims when she is town. Therefore, it is her claim that removed her from the lynch pool.

Gamma Emerald wrote:Why? I agree with Bessie that Znirk isn't main mafia since he slipped not in mafia chat. He could be traitor but I don't think so, what with the know-it-all role.
I had Znirk’s slip as a null tell, see here. But my overall D1 read of Znirk was leaning town.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I'm not a massive fan of him delegating trying to read another player to somebody else. This is lazy, in my opinion, and gives scum a chance to look like they're trying to figure things out without actually needing to construct a fake read.
Can you link to the post that you are referring to here please?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Also, his advice towards Peaceful Whale re. claiming etc feels pretty townie (though it's relatively obvious, so not a major town point).
Read what I posted here. Perhaps Zyth’s advice to Peaceful Whale was not very obvious to a newbie (as it was to you and I), as Peaceful Whale has since claimed more than he should have claimed. Also, remember that Peaceful Whale was also being asked for information about his power from BoomFrog and plytho (you might have missed this if you read Zyth in isolation).

LaserGuy wrote:I already said this twice but to repeat: my reads were written after receiving my role. My notes (the post full of spoilers nobody read) were taken before I got my PM.
Sorry LaserGuy, I checked and you did say it in one of your initial posts. And I did read your spoiler post. But I am starting (continuing?) to forget and confuse things in this game because of there is so much content. There has been more content so far in D2 than in some complete games.

BoomFrog wrote:@Bessie, and Sabrar: in bin chicken, plytho was town right? Did he do this passive mud slinging thing as town as well?
He didn’t play Bin Chicken. Summary of plytho’s history:
Diablo- town
Dark Tower- town
Shakespeare III- scum
Refrigerator- scum
Crossover- scum

BoomFrog wrote:So, if you can prove someone is town I think you should reveal it near the end of the day cycle. Don't say details about how your role works. Just say, "from my role's result I am XX% sure YYY is town."
Peaceful Whale, don’t do this.

BoomFrog wrote:
bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Regarding Bessie: I'm suprised that she didn't pick up on the mpolo thing. She noted it, but she didn't feel it odd that mpolo's "data was lost". I'm leaning slightly scum which makes me sad. :( .
Please explain why I’m now leaning scum. Is it because I did not read moody exactly the way you wanted me to read him?
Yes.
Ok. So I’m scummy because you could not direct my read of moody to be what you wanted it to be.

BoomFrog wrote: You noted that his mpolo read was odd but didn't note it was scummy. Why?
As I noted in the post to which you are referring, moody’s content was entirely within his meta. I almost always read moody as scummy. I wasn’t going to lead a lynch on someone who I usually read as scummy even when he’s town, but if others without my bias saw him as scummy, I wasn’t going to try to stop it.

plytho wrote:Too late now. If you think I’m active lurking, say so right away, so I can argue why I don’t think it is. Point out that I’m active lurking so I can’t hide anymore. Instead, you do the opposite, you engage my argument, encouraging me to keep talkin about it.
I did. Page 27. And I’m engaging you on this because you requested I engage with you on it here, and when I didn’t respond quickly enough you reminded me to respond here.

plytho wrote:Ha, I’m not trying to draw you into it. You stepped into it yourself. I had no beef with you on SirG but you felt the need to comment on it.
Reminder, I’m engaging you on this because you requested I engage with you on it here, and when I didn’t respond quickly enough you reminded me to respond here.

plytho wrote:So you’re confident that there are two scum teams? Does the jimbob-plytho connection make you confident about the two scum teams, or is it something else?
Where did the “confident” come from?

plytho wrote:See, this is why you shouldn’t dismiss my reasoning as ‘active lurker fluff’. It was important to point out so town knows what’s going on. I wasn’t considering the two scum team scenario (which, I admit, makes my strategy weaker). By drawing attention to it I make sure all the townies notice it. Scum already noticed it. (See our disagreement in principle above.)
Well obviously scum noticed it. They commented on it.

Caught up! Oh, wait, no.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:19 am UTC

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I'm not a massive fan of him delegating trying to read another player to somebody else. This is lazy, in my opinion, and gives scum a chance to look like they're trying to figure things out without actually needing to construct a fake read.
Can you link to the post that you are referring to here please?
See here where he asked for EGW to figure out moody's alignment for him (at least I think this was the one I was referring to. Don't have time to go through all the posts again).

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Also, his advice towards Peaceful Whale re. claiming etc feels pretty townie (though it's relatively obvious, so not a major town point).
Read what I posted here. Perhaps Zyth’s advice to Peaceful Whale was not very obvious to a newbie (as it was to you and I), as Peaceful Whale has since claimed more than he should have claimed. Also, remember that Peaceful Whale was also being asked for information about his power from BoomFrog and plytho (you might have missed this if you read Zyth in isolation).[/quote]I'll come back to this later when I have a bit more time.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:37 am UTC

Trying to multi-iso bessie and plytho to decide who is right about the role-fishing but it's hard when neither of them acknowledges the fact that PW's claims are inconsistent despite quoting them (pre-edit: another possibility just occurred to me but somehow I doubt that both of them would come to the same conclusion as I did, especially on D1).
However I think the issue can be summarized by the following quotes:
bessie wrote:I feel that trying to divert attention from a newbie townie’s overeager claim is a townie thing to do, and drawing attention to it is a
scummy thing to do.
plytho wrote:I thought PW made himself a possible NK target with that claim. So I wanted to make sure everyone (specifically people with protective powers) saw that claim. I also felt like PW had pretty much claimed his power so when you posted

In my opinion PW's claims were out in the open and everybody who made an attempt to read the thread could see them quite clearly. In fact, if someone would miss it then that player is most probably scum who would just skim the content, perhaps not paying full attention to PW as he's probably not a threat to them. Therefore in this particular case I agree with bessie that not drawing attention to it would have been the way to go, though I feel she overreacts (as usual when going into tunnel mode) a bit.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:56 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Trying to multi-iso bessie and plytho to decide who is right about the role-fishing but it's hard when neither of them acknowledges the fact that PW's claims are inconsistent despite quoting them (pre-edit: another possibility just occurred to me but somehow I doubt that both of them would come to the same conclusion as I did, especially on D1).
I do not necessarily believe his claims are inconsistent, and I made a speculation as to one way the claims may all fit together. Refer to this post.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:01 am UTC

@bessie: I saw that but I do not think it satisfies the criteria of 'proving himself as town'. Maybe he just thought it would? That's a possibility but an unlikely one in my opinion (plus it's contradicted by his D2 claim).

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:11 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I'm not a massive fan of him delegating trying to read another player to somebody else. This is lazy, in my opinion, and gives scum a chance to look like they're trying to figure things out without actually needing to construct a fake read.
Can you link to the post that you are referring to here please?
See here where he asked for EGW to figure out moody's alignment for him (at least I think this was the one I was referring to. Don't have time to go through all the posts again).
Ok, thanks. I didn't remember that post.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:02 am UTC

Thanks Sabrar for looking into it. I think you're right. That's exactly what I meant when I talked about disagreeing on principle.

And I agree that a scum player may be more likely to miss it but scum as a team is less likely to miss it than an individual town player because they can communicate.
he him his

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:36 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Also, his advice towards Peaceful Whale re. claiming etc feels pretty townie (though it's relatively obvious, so not a major town point).
Read what I posted here. Perhaps Zyth’s advice to Peaceful Whale was not very obvious to a newbie (as it was to you and I), as Peaceful Whale has since claimed more than he should have claimed. Also, remember that Peaceful Whale was also being asked for information about his power from BoomFrog and plytho (you might have missed this if you read Zyth in isolation).
I'll come back to this later when I have a bit more time.
When I meant obvious, it was intended to mean obvious for someone to give, not necessarily obvious for a newbie. I think it was the right thing to say, especially given the context, but I could almost as easily see a scum player saying this as a townie. Of course, a scum player could have chosen to not say it and hope that PW continued talking, but there's no guarantee that another townie wouldn't say it instead, losing the scum player an opportunity to gather town points. So yeah, right thing to do, not major town points though.
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