Weekends as always are awful for me activity wise so sorry all for dropping the ball yet again, but I'm going to try to get some useful stuff up for y'all before someone hammers me with deadline fast approaching. I'd obviously love to avoid being a mislynch but at this point I think people saying I don't really have a leg to stand on right now are pretty right because I haven't done much to help myself other than flashes of indignation over stuff that I find subjectively shitty but haven't done any work to show objective shittiness/scumminess. Persuasion is more than half the battle in mafia and I've utterly fail to carry my weight in that respect. So for now I'm gonna get my H_A analysis up and then try to work on some EOD analysis re: the nature of the wagons that have developed on me, both yesterday and today.
heuristically_alone wrote:@moody if causing chaos would cost you the game, why wouldn't you want to remove the chaos?
Softball here to a scummate. I only saw him ask one other similarly styled question to Sabrar which I will quote later. I think it's worth point out though that this is the only confirmed scum to scum interaction we have to work with, and the fact that H_A is not going hard buddy or hard bus here and instead opting for light neutral interaction is a bit telling.
A lot of H_A's early content revolves around bantering with Zen which is frustrating because we already know Zen was town and these two slots flipped consecutively without dayplay in between so we didn't really have an opportunity to adjust reads on Zen with these interactions in context. But I think it's important to note that H_A made the conscious decision to attack a town slot, and an active one at that, very early on.
heuristically_alone wrote: bessie wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:@Zyth: I think his main issue is being called scum not being scumread. He just used bad wording.
Why not let heuristically_alone explain his issue himself?
The issue is more of I thought of stating in my initial post to zen that it was kinda scummy, but worried that could make me look scummy, so didn't. And then get told I am scum for assuming he is town. Actually makes me laugh a little.
Interesting interaction with Bessie here. Honestly not sure if scum!Bessie sticks her neck out for a partner this early on simply to basically say "don't answer for H_A." I'm having trouble gleaning if this is Bessie legitimately interested in what H_A's explanation would have been and is trying to get a read on him and doesn't want someone else putting words in his mouth which would dilute her ability to read anything from his reaction, OR if she's actually concerned that someone else would misrepresent H_A's potential explanation in a way that makes him look worse than he might answer it, and thus she is afraid that someone else's representation of H_A's explanation would plant negative seeds in other slots' minds. Basically, is she trying to prevent someone handing H_A and out here, or is she trying to prevent someone else from sandbagging/strawmanning whatever H_A might say before he gets the chance, thus undercutting the potential towniness of his eventual response. If it's the latter then this shows strong desire for messaging and narrative control by bessie. Someone who know's bessies scum meta better than I ought give this some thought. Is bessie more controlling as a scum partner? Or is she more laid back and willing to let scummates sink or swim on their own?
Bessie wrote:Thanks for pointing out your town win rate. So what’s
your win percentage as scum? Or was the purpose of that post just to declare your townines?
Careful bessie. He might think you are assuming he is town already.
Another very interesting bessie interaction. Hard to say if this is H_A smugly sideswiping at Zen based on bessie's react to his introductory content and using this as convenient way to lightly elbow a buddy or if he's just trying to encourage more Zen pile on by capitalizing on other people grilling the slot.
heuristically_alone wrote: #HBC | Zyth wrote: Sabrar wrote:Unvote
Should be in bed.
Are all DGamers on US time? That would suck.
I'm glad we likely have no Jesters, otherwise Zen would be a prime suspect. More in the morning.
You think I'm scummy but not scum? This is worse than what I was getting on h_a about. It's weird that you find me scummy, but that it doesn't allude to me being mafia.
Haha are you kidding me? And you call yourself experienced. Town players act scummy all the time. Sometimes on purpose.
H_A intervenes here in defense of Sabrar via undermining Zen's attack; yall should take note
Sabrar wrote:Yes. With a new player I don't expect a lot of changes overnight in his/her thought patterns so I assume Peaceful Whale's mind was at a similar place as last game when he was scum.
Yes but I don't know if you can really count his throw away game as town. Fridge mafia is really is the only way he knows to play, so while his playstyle is the same, I could see him saying similar things as town, so I don't want to jump the gun on him quite yet.
Light, low stakes interaction w/ Sabrar here re: the noobtown PW question. Given his softball to moody earlier, this type of light interaction I think looks pretty scummy. H_A clearly isn't afraid to interact with scummates lightly thanks to the moody interaction evidence. But he showed a clear preference for not having that interaction have much gravitas.
heuristically_alone wrote: Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:This time I think he's just jokingly referring to that.
Might be. Why would he do that though? What is the purpose behind reminding the others of how your scum-play looked like?
I see plytho thought the same. Perhaps PW is not yet an experienced enough player to think about why he should post something, so instead just posts. I think it helps to point out that PW is rather young, not even in high school yet.
Not afraid to light buddy the slot he seems to be chalking up as noobtown
heuristically_alone wrote:It is common here for people to not start placing votes until we are closer to the deadline. I think the fear is mafia ganging up and quickhammering, which I don't think would be a problem in the early stages of this game.
Evil George Washington wrote:Thank you HA. If that is true, then that fear will only paralyze town and allow scum to hide in the shadows, laughing at us from a distance. Anyway, HA, since you are around. Can I see a few scum picks and town picks from you? I don't expect a full reads list, but interested in hearing your thoughts on some of the cast.
I have 2 minor reads as of now. Bessie and Plytho. People that vocalize the same thoughts I have I tend to town read. I want to read Zen as scum, but really it is closer to neutral. PW is also dead spot neutral for now.
This is such a bizarre interaction to me. Though it almost seems too spontaneous to be choreographed, EGW's language here in the quote seems REALLLLLY unnatural. It's such fluffy prose which I find uncharacteristic for EGW. "Fear will only paralyze town and allow scum to hide in the shadows, laughing at us from a distance." Like I can't think of a single other instance where EGW uses this kind of what I guess I would call lightly artistic prose. Makes me feel like maybe this is another softball game of catch being played between two scummates a la his softie to moody "if causing chaos would cost you the game, why not remove the chaos" statement. Also notice how instead of just asking for a reads list from H_A, like EGW does like clockwork for pretty much every other slot, he hedges here. He pulls back the urgency of the demand by softening it with "I don't expect a full reads list, but..." This comes off as perhaps a subconscious desire to not grill a buddy as harshly as a slot he may be intended to put legitimate pressure on, but he doesn't want to make it seem like he's asymmetrically demanding read lists.
H_A comes out and confirms "town reads" on bessie and plytho here. Obviously he's been trying to kindle Zen pressure so no suprise on the zen scum read. The backtracking on PW, who he seems to have been suggesting is noob town in earlier posts, is interesting. Clearly H_A wasn't ready to give PW a free pass out of mislynch viability despite going to bat for him earlier, however lightly.
heuristically_alone wrote:Bessie had the same thoughts of Zen as me, and plytho the same thoughts of PW as me. Also thought I would specifically let known my current stance on PW to be clear that I am not town reading him, and Zen that I am definitely not town reading, and still closer to neutral with him than scum, to avoid confusion of someone misinterprets my earlier posts.
Someone was feeling insecure about their Zen and PW posturing lol
Sabrar wrote:- Should this scenario occur then it's a bit easier for one of his scum-buddies to realize this, therefore scum-points would have been awarded to any Dgamer coming to the same conclusion.
So you now believe at least one non dgamer is scum?
Another softie question here. Chalk up more light sabrar interaction. H_A's interaction with sabrar seems pretty disproportionate in terms of frequency, even if the interactions aren't very complex. I just think this is important to note
heuristically_alone wrote:Madge's claimed ability would be interesting for scum to have a claim, almost like a fake jester to avoid getting lynched.
Another reason I think PW is town. As scum, he put on the appearance of wanting to learn to scumhint and asked lots of questions and actually put forth quite a few reads. PW looks more lost here than he did as scum and now that he has to try to do real reads as town, doesn't know where to begin.
Interesting distance from madge here, though I can't say conclusively that this wasn't deliberate false speculation meant to generate a feel of distance. Also notice he goes back to light defending PW. Shows a habit of wanting to buddy the town slots that run the risk of easy mislynch so that he can claim having the read right early on upon town flip. Sadly we don't see any other defenses like this from the slot for comparison.
heuristically_alone wrote:On moody: his meta seems pretty typical, an early reads list mostly with information going off of what other players have said. Doesnt usually spend much time on prodding or asking questions. He does seem a little more active than past games this early on though.
On Evil George Washington: I like his playstyle. Keeps pressure on players and asks follow up questions. Lots of active scum hunting. A dangerous player if he ends up rolling mafia.
H_A takes stands on a known scummate and EGW in the same post. Both assessments are pretty positive though he props up EGW much more here. This makes me wonder in H_A would have the balls to defend two scummates side by side in a single post like this. Important to note here that he throws a pro-town activity cookie to his confirmed buddy as if to avoid really analysing the slot, while he openly buddies EGW, going to far as to say he believes the slot to be actively scumhunting and that it would be a "scary" scumslot.
heuristically_alone wrote:Been out of town all weekend. Looks like I have quite a few pages to catch up on. I'll have some juicy reads for you all by end of day.
This disappointment I felt after realizing that this was H_A's last post must be what you all feel when I say I'm going to get caught up and redeem my slot and then end up totally blowing it. Feelsbadman.jpg
All in all the major takeaways from this are as follows:
1.) H_A and Sabrar has weird, low stakes light banter that never really becomes anything. In the context of H_A's light interactions with moody, this leans scummy IMO
2.) H_A proffers hard town reads on EGW and plytho. EGW he expands on, we don't really get any explanation for plytho.
3.) Bessie and H_A have a weird interaction insofar as this whole "let H_A answer things directed at him" comment coming from bessie is concerned. Again, hard to say if this is bessie being a controlling scum looking to mitigate a narrative re: a scummate gaining traction that she didn't like, or if she was genuinely scumhunting and didn't want H_A's response tainted by someone else answering for him which would dilute the reaction's read value. Also H_A does suggest he townreads bessie which could be a potential connection.
4.) EGW and H_A have tonally strange interaction re: the style difference between forums regarding aggressive early voting and fear of alpha strikes. Feels like more softballing to mates like he did with moody but hard to say.
I'll be back later with what I can clean from EOD/wagon analysis once I finish that reading up. I'll try to respond to people if you have questions for me throughout the day though I'm at work so I cant promise undivided attention to the thread