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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:26 am UTC

bessie wrote:LaserGuy
Re Znirk, see this post.
LaserGuy wrote:Educated guess. I read the role and figured it was probably similar to mine--two unrelated powers.


What do you think Znirk’s two powers are based on his role name?


Sorry, missed you on this before. I'm assuming a voteblocker is what it says on the tin--some method of blocking votes. Probably similar to what Madge's power looks like, minus the kill. Not sure about Unwilling. Could mean a lot of things.

bessie wrote:Note that his reads assume one scum team, see this.


Yes, I dropped the idea of two scum teams some time ago. In D3 I think.

EGW wrote:I want your vote on Frozen.


Okay if I put him at L-1?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:27 am UTC

Yes, that is fine.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:28 am UTC

Vote Frozen

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:34 am UTC

Night Plan Redux:

1. Red Ryu protects one of [EGW / Sabrar / Bessie] (Considering that Red Ryu may be scum, but if town, follow this)

2. MPOLO switches a two random scum reads on Frozen Flame Scum flip. Switches [ {Red Ryu and Laser} or {Red Ryu and Boomfrog} ] upon town flip.

3. Plytho, Target Bessie.

4. Boomfrog, does nothing.

5. Bessie, do nothing.

6. Sabrar, if able to act, target Madge.

7. Madge, do nothing. You can't do anything because you are jailed anyway.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:47 am UTC

:shock: did I just turn the lynch around?

that's a first....
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/10

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:49 am UTC

Reposting my claim database so I don't lose track of it, but looks like apart from BF's claim tracker and the 1 shot cop, that's all the real investigative roles we have???? I am shocked especially because there's no guarantee BF is being truthy.

=================
CLAIM DATABASE

(spoilered per request, note changes are not marked in any way)

Spoiler:
UNCLAIMED PLAYERS
CLAIMS
Madge: half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched, good for three half-lynches; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch); confirms receiving PM she was jailed bySabrar

Mpolo: Miria from Guardian Legend, bus driver (withheld N0, switch Zyth/amrock N1, jimbob/sabrar N2, withheld N3)

Laserguy: Arthas Menethil from Warcraft. town judgment miller. Judgment is one-time use, which I used to target Zen on N1, and was redirected to SirG/Amrock via mpolo. acquired chat with plytho on D3 via plytho's power.

Plytho: I'm frisk from undertale. unconfirmed mason recruiter. can only recruit people who voted for him. Recruited Laserguy N2. Recruited either Bessie or EGW N3

EGW: I am Simea, from Crystalis [NES]. I am a Jack of all trades, and I can use different abilities. Barrier, Telepathy, and Paralysis. I already used Barrier N1; did receive notification that Dr Mario protected him. Hidden message, Secondary Ability Roleblock. I don't have enough information N0 to use any of my abilities. I'd rather save paralysis for late game when I have more information, before then would be guessing game as to who to use it on and don't want to risk that. Found Barrier being used N1 was the optimal usage since that night I would have the least information since it's the first night.

Red Ryu: Doctor who gives notes to targets; (FrozenFlame, EGW, Sabrar): Notes become public on death

BoomFrog: Tyreal from Diablo. Town Vindicator. Twice a game I can watch a player. Once a game I can kill a player who I have watched visit my target.(N0: withheld; N1: mpolo no result; N2: EGW, no result)

Sabrar: MegaMan - absorbs an ability and can use it the next day. Details: viewtopic.php?p=4255774#p4255774

Frozenflame: Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden, Town Deflector. Can "focus"(not on consecutive nights) to cause all lethal actions to be redirected from self onto target. Target SirG N1, Boomfrog N3 (hinting at good power was to draw scum kill)

Bessie: Town Decision Maker (one shot power, everyone's first vote is permenant for a day)

FLIPS (THESE SHOULD BE EXHAUSTIVE NOW, please let me know if I missed anyone)

MAFIA
moody7277, Reaper (Overwatch), Mafia Know-It-All Wraith lynched D1!
Yolinda, Samus Aran X (Metroid), Mafia Roleblocking Possessor

TOWN
Maven89, Agent 47 (Hitman), Town Guilt-Ridden Vigilante killed N1!
Spak, Steve (Minecraft), Town Jailor, lynched D2!
Znirk, Snake (Metal Gear), Town Unwilling Voteblocker, modkilled D2!
Peaceful Whale, Maiden in Black (Demon Souls), Town One-Use Mason Cop, killed N2! (Bessie claims that PW was a one-shot cop that massons target if innocent)
Zyth: Not 100% sure on power https://quicktopic.com/52/H/8EncU8haCkF Zyth targeted Sabrar N0, apparently Maven N1, most likely Ryu N2
Jimbob: vote limiter (once per game can designate 2 players as the only ones who can be voted for that day)

INDIE
Amrock, GLaDOS (Portal), Independent Ultra-Bomb Influencer, judgement lynched D2!
Gamma Emerald, Geralt of Rivia (The Witcher), Independent Bounty Hunter, killed by explosion D2!
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:53 am UTC

I don't think so unless you want to count Zen's journal as an investigative role. It doesn't produce any more results then my telepathy ability.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby bessie » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:02 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote: Bessie, why do you disagree with my Laser read?


Evil George Washington wrote: He is too confident with PW, Zen, and Boom.
Is this referring specifically to LaserGuy's D2 reads? I think it’s a null because he’s confident in his reads as scum and town (as I’ve said previously here).

Evil George Washington wrote:Tries to use the Zen kill as reason to find Boom!scum as implausible, while disliking to think about the night kill.
This I agree with and have commented on it myself here and here.

Evil George Washington wrote: Here Laser states he was resolved to vote him when Jim said he was considering using it on his top 4. [Boomfrog, Zen, Red Ryu, Yolinda] Shows that he was voting him for his role over him being suspicious, even though he has stated a scum read on him pages before that. (His read on him was on Page 62, his vote is on page 64)
Yes as you stated LaserGuy was already reading jimbob as scum, see his reads list here p62, before jimbob’s claim here p63. I just reread those pages and I see your point but I still think his vote for jimbob was valid because LaserGuy had been reading him as scum, so it’s not like the vote came out of nowhere and only reason he voted for jimbob was the claim.

Evil George Washington wrote: It also doesn't make sense to have a miller with a one-shot cop in the game.

I keep going back and forth on this, whether LaserGuy took a chance with a fake claim, or whether it is an artifact that was leftover when the game was rebalanced. There is something continuing to bother me (that his miller claim reminds me about) in this post.
LaserGuy wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Not what I asked. How do you know that Znirk's ability did not have 'such an arduous activation requirement'?

Educated guess. I read the role and figured it was probably similar to mine--two unrelated powers.

I see LaserGuy replied to my question about this.
LaserGuy wrote: Sorry, missed you on this before. I'm assuming a voteblocker is what it says on the tin--some method of blocking votes. Probably similar to what Madge's power looks like, minus the kill. Not sure about Unwilling. Could mean a lot of things.
I get the voteblocker but I’m not seeing how “unwilling” led you to a second ability, unless you knew there was a second ability.

Ninja'd by the lynch flipping to FrozenFlame.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:04 am UTC

Bessie, can you go more into your read on Frozen?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:09 am UTC

FrozenFlame has long been in my "not trusted" pile -- though in large part due to content levels. There has been more meat on his more recent posts, though I couldn't swear when that last post was.

Are we at L-2?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:10 am UTC

He is L-1.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:11 am UTC

mpolo wrote:FrozenFlame has long been in my "not trusted" pile -- though in large part due to content levels. There has been more meat on his more recent posts, though I couldn't swear when that last post was.

Are we at L-2?


By my count we are at L-1

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:14 am UTC

When is your latest availability today, MPOLO? We may need your vote later in the day. Last time Ryu refused, and i'm not sure Boom finds FrozenFlame to be scum.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby bessie » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:10 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Bessie, can you go more into your read on Frozen?

Frozen Flame- I liked his D1 content, reviewing now I think it’s interesting that he was so sure about the setup, and now it seems he had many things wrong. At the time I agreed with most of the content in this post and this post , especially the comments about jimbob which reflected my own views. I didn’t like his buddying of plytho, who I was reading as scum, and I skipped over a lot of the SirGabriel discussion (D1 and D2). Did not like that he showed up on D2 conveniently a bit late for the lynch, but he had placed a vote. D3 starts off complaining that he is being labeled an active lurker, but everyone else that he compared himself to was being called out for their lack of content too. D4 content has some errors , in this post he doubts Sabrar’s jailer claim as implausible, but Spak had already explained how the jailer worked, he also missed EGW’s earlier commuter claim, shows he had not been following the thread that closely, but he had previously said that he was behind on content. I’ve already said I don’t agree with his read of plytho, I do agree on Madge. I don't feel I have anything new to add on Frozen. I was hoping he would post today so that I would have some additional content to analyze, but it looks like it won’t happen in time for me, since I’ll get home from work 2-3 hours before deadline and by then all discussion shifts to ensuring a lynch, not doing reads.

I would like keep my vote on BoomFrog for now, as he is currently my strongest scum read. I will try to check the thread before work, and I will be home from work after 6pm PDT.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:13 am UTC

Today I don't have a lot of classes, but a lot of "distractions" -- I have to get in to the Doctor, some students won an art contest and I have to go to the prize ceremony, another student has to be picked up from the doctor… I can guarantee getting on 2 hours to 1 1/2 hours before deadline (which I think is at 6pm for me), but it is uncertain after that.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:17 am UTC

Thank you bessie. So what is your actual read then from that reasoning, town, slight town, null, slight scum, or scum?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:18 am UTC

MPOLO: Thank you. I have my day off so I should be around as well. I'll be sleeping soon now.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby bessie » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:31 am UTC

mpolo wrote:Today I don't have a lot of classes, but a lot of "distractions" -- I have to get in to the Doctor, some students won an art contest and I have to go to the prize ceremony, another student has to be picked up from the doctor… I can guarantee getting on 2 hours to 1 1/2 hours before deadline (which I think is at 6pm for me), but it is uncertain after that.


#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Deadline is Monday, October 16 at 11:59:59 PM EST!

So mpolo if you're UTC +2 deadline is at 6am for you.

Evil George Washington wrote:Thank you bessie. So what is your actual read then from that reasoning, town, slight town, null, slight scum, or scum?

EGW, I make it a point not to try not to do neutral or null reads because I believe it is a cop out so I will place him as slightly scummy. I have more than half of the players on my list as scum lean right now, but my Sabrar read is tied to my Madge read, otherwise I would have Sabrar as town leaning.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:12 am UTC

UTC+1, but yeah. I won't be around right at deadline. (Sorry, went the wrong way in my early-morning calculation.) But at least my wound from the operation is "almost" healed…
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:25 am UTC

Glad to hear you're healing well, mpolo.

As usual I won't be around at deadline either. Don't count on me to be around the last 6 hours before deadline.

I'm not sure what to think about EGW's action list.

I'll have some time later tonight to dig in to a couple of things:
-reread frozen
-reread boomfrog
-review EGW's action list
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:46 pm UTC

Welp fell asleep, reading time.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:03 pm UTC

plytho wrote:But not if it was done once?

I'm trying to find out whether the note could be written by you or if it could only come from the mod.

If the note retrieved on flip is numbered that's content that could only come from a mod. If it's just the same message the 'protected' players received it could just come from you.


Same if it was just once.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:22 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I also want you to know that I'm not trying to hurt your personally. If you felt that way, I'm sorry.


Also want to reiterate this, nothing I say is personal. Well outside of some talk with Ran where I was speaking more so as myself about some issues with play I could tell from Zen.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:28 pm UTC

As for directing actions, it depends.

I think what EGW is proposing with swapping me with others makes sense and the pool of people I will be protecting. I don't think everyone needs to be directed with every action but I suppose this is also fine to track where everyone.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:31 pm UTC

Wait wtf, why are we switching off Frog or Madge.

What has FF done to justify being lynched at this point?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:34 pm UTC

No seriously why are we giving the two scummier slots a pass today over a slot that has been slightly less active but not really scummy if that?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:48 pm UTC

Lots of people think Madge isn't scum, on top of that she's jailed.

Frozen and BoomFrog look about equally scummy to me and I'm fine with either lynch.

My main issues with Frozen are: Boasting about being on the right wagons when that hasn't been the case. Pointing out how good some of Zen's reads were and combining that with thanking Zen for giving him town credit. Claiming he'd take over Zen's role today but not delivering. I can understand being demotivated after losing that post. But his summarized conclusions didn't feel like he'd found strong scum reads. There's also a PoE aspect.

Boom's claim and defense made me slightly doubt my scum read on him to the point where he and Frozen are pretty equally scummy in my mind.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:26 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Wait wtf, why are we switching off Frog or Madge.

What has FF done to justify being lynched at this point?


What do you feel Frozen has done to suggest he is Town? What's your read here?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:18 pm UTC

Collection of thoughts from scrolling back up the thread:

Evil George Washington wrote:Night Plan Redux:

1. Red Ryu protects one of [EGW / Sabrar / Bessie] (Considering that Red Ryu may be scum, but if town, follow this)

2. MPOLO switches a two random scum reads on Frozen Flame Scum flip. Switches [ {Red Ryu and Laser} or {Red Ryu and Boomfrog} ] upon town flip.

3. Plytho, Target Bessie.

4. Boomfrog, does nothing.

5. Bessie, do nothing.

6. Sabrar, if able to act, target Madge.

7. Madge, do nothing. You can't do anything because you are jailed anyway.


Why should mpolo switch random scum reads on a frozen scum flip?


Evil George Washington wrote:The reason why I like Madge's vote is because she made her own decision based on claims when she could have joined on Boom. She also makes a good point that we do have few investigative, so BF may be telling the truth according to balance. (Which leads to Ryu scum from his results)
Why does this lead to Ryu scum? Do you really think ninja note-deliverer makes more sense than roleblock?

Side thought: why would scum roleblock town!BoomFrog N2?

Evil George Washington wrote:His actions put him in this situation. I feel he had a result on Ryu that suggests he is scum. His attacks on me and you were weak but is it possible he really believed that? I really dislike his previous EOD's. I just feel like he could have done better this day phase if he were scum. What's really giving me butterflies right now is Laser and FrozenFlame, espcecially Frozen Flame.
If you really think Laser is scum, lynching him will make our chat townie.

Evil George Washington wrote:Plytho - I re-read Plytho before but I noticed some weird things from him. In the mason chat, he asked me 'why do you think you will be nightkilled'? As if he disagreed. I found that odd.
I said that because you said you wanted to lynch RR before you were nightkilled, as if you were sure you’d be the target tonight.

Madge wrote:Bessie (really not sure where to put her so here she is: decision maker could be useful for scum but it's testable and I think we should test it: just remembered the Peaceful Whale result so she's moved from "good claims" to "likely town")
Why do you think we should test bessie’s power? I can’t imagine bessie inventing this power so testing it isn’t really going to tell us more about her alignment.

I still think it would be interesting to play a day with bessie’s power activated though.

bessie wrote:plytho, you don’t need to target me unless you want to, and I assure you that won’t hold it against you if you don’t (I was just teasing you when I made this post :P ). Since this is unconfirmed chat, me joining your chat isn’t going to influence my (town or scum) read of you anyway.
I have no problem targeting you to join my chat, you’re one of my strongest town reads. At this point my goal with the chat is getting as many townies (and no scum) in there by endgame so town has a rival chat to scum.

Some weirdness: Sabrar pointed out the nature of the wraith power here. But seems to think moody could still use the nightkill here.

overwatch wiki wrote:Reaper becomes a shadow for a short period of time. While in this form, he takes no damage and is able to pass through enemies, but cannot fire his weapons or use other abilities.


My top three is unchanged: BoomFrog, FrozenFlame, LaserGuy with an annoying amount of uncertainty on all three.

Reread of BoomFrog and FrozenFlame later this evening.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:33 pm UTC

Weekends as always are awful for me activity wise so sorry all for dropping the ball yet again, but I'm going to try to get some useful stuff up for y'all before someone hammers me with deadline fast approaching. I'd obviously love to avoid being a mislynch but at this point I think people saying I don't really have a leg to stand on right now are pretty right because I haven't done much to help myself other than flashes of indignation over stuff that I find subjectively shitty but haven't done any work to show objective shittiness/scumminess. Persuasion is more than half the battle in mafia and I've utterly fail to carry my weight in that respect. So for now I'm gonna get my H_A analysis up and then try to work on some EOD analysis re: the nature of the wagons that have developed on me, both yesterday and today.

heuristically_alone wrote:@moody if causing chaos would cost you the game, why wouldn't you want to remove the chaos?


Softball here to a scummate. I only saw him ask one other similarly styled question to Sabrar which I will quote later. I think it's worth point out though that this is the only confirmed scum to scum interaction we have to work with, and the fact that H_A is not going hard buddy or hard bus here and instead opting for light neutral interaction is a bit telling.

A lot of H_A's early content revolves around bantering with Zen which is frustrating because we already know Zen was town and these two slots flipped consecutively without dayplay in between so we didn't really have an opportunity to adjust reads on Zen with these interactions in context. But I think it's important to note that H_A made the conscious decision to attack a town slot, and an active one at that, very early on.

heuristically_alone wrote:
bessie wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:@Zyth: I think his main issue is being called scum not being scumread. He just used bad wording.
Why not let heuristically_alone explain his issue himself?

The issue is more of I thought of stating in my initial post to zen that it was kinda scummy, but worried that could make me look scummy, so didn't. And then get told I am scum for assuming he is town. Actually makes me laugh a little.


Interesting interaction with Bessie here. Honestly not sure if scum!Bessie sticks her neck out for a partner this early on simply to basically say "don't answer for H_A." I'm having trouble gleaning if this is Bessie legitimately interested in what H_A's explanation would have been and is trying to get a read on him and doesn't want someone else putting words in his mouth which would dilute her ability to read anything from his reaction, OR if she's actually concerned that someone else would misrepresent H_A's potential explanation in a way that makes him look worse than he might answer it, and thus she is afraid that someone else's representation of H_A's explanation would plant negative seeds in other slots' minds. Basically, is she trying to prevent someone handing H_A and out here, or is she trying to prevent someone else from sandbagging/strawmanning whatever H_A might say before he gets the chance, thus undercutting the potential towniness of his eventual response. If it's the latter then this shows strong desire for messaging and narrative control by bessie. Someone who know's bessies scum meta better than I ought give this some thought. Is bessie more controlling as a scum partner? Or is she more laid back and willing to let scummates sink or swim on their own?

heuristically_alone wrote:
Bessie wrote:Thanks for pointing out your town win rate. So what’s
your win percentage as scum? Or was the purpose of that post just to declare your townines?

Careful bessie. He might think you are assuming he is town already.


Another very interesting bessie interaction. Hard to say if this is H_A smugly sideswiping at Zen based on bessie's react to his introductory content and using this as convenient way to lightly elbow a buddy or if he's just trying to encourage more Zen pile on by capitalizing on other people grilling the slot.

heuristically_alone wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Unvote

Should be in bed. :(
Are all DGamers on US time? That would suck.

I'm glad we likely have no Jesters, otherwise Zen would be a prime suspect. More in the morning.
You think I'm scummy but not scum? This is worse than what I was getting on h_a about. It's weird that you find me scummy, but that it doesn't allude to me being mafia.

Haha are you kidding me? And you call yourself experienced. Town players act scummy all the time. Sometimes on purpose.
H_A intervenes here in defense of Sabrar via undermining Zen's attack; yall should take note

heuristically_alone wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Yes. With a new player I don't expect a lot of changes overnight in his/her thought patterns so I assume Peaceful Whale's mind was at a similar place as last game when he was scum.

Yes but I don't know if you can really count his throw away game as town. Fridge mafia is really is the only way he knows to play, so while his playstyle is the same, I could see him saying similar things as town, so I don't want to jump the gun on him quite yet.
Light, low stakes interaction w/ Sabrar here re: the noobtown PW question. Given his softball to moody earlier, this type of light interaction I think looks pretty scummy. H_A clearly isn't afraid to interact with scummates lightly thanks to the moody interaction evidence. But he showed a clear preference for not having that interaction have much gravitas.

heuristically_alone wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:This time I think he's just jokingly referring to that.
Might be. Why would he do that though? What is the purpose behind reminding the others of how your scum-play looked like?

I see plytho thought the same. Perhaps PW is not yet an experienced enough player to think about why he should post something, so instead just posts. I think it helps to point out that PW is rather young, not even in high school yet.
Not afraid to light buddy the slot he seems to be chalking up as noobtown

heuristically_alone wrote:It is common here for people to not start placing votes until we are closer to the deadline. I think the fear is mafia ganging up and quickhammering, which I don't think would be a problem in the early stages of this game.


heuristically_alone wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Thank you HA. If that is true, then that fear will only paralyze town and allow scum to hide in the shadows, laughing at us from a distance. Anyway, HA, since you are around. Can I see a few scum picks and town picks from you? I don't expect a full reads list, but interested in hearing your thoughts on some of the cast.


I have 2 minor reads as of now. Bessie and Plytho. People that vocalize the same thoughts I have I tend to town read. I want to read Zen as scum, but really it is closer to neutral. PW is also dead spot neutral for now.
This is such a bizarre interaction to me. Though it almost seems too spontaneous to be choreographed, EGW's language here in the quote seems REALLLLLY unnatural. It's such fluffy prose which I find uncharacteristic for EGW. "Fear will only paralyze town and allow scum to hide in the shadows, laughing at us from a distance." Like I can't think of a single other instance where EGW uses this kind of what I guess I would call lightly artistic prose. Makes me feel like maybe this is another softball game of catch being played between two scummates a la his softie to moody "if causing chaos would cost you the game, why not remove the chaos" statement. Also notice how instead of just asking for a reads list from H_A, like EGW does like clockwork for pretty much every other slot, he hedges here. He pulls back the urgency of the demand by softening it with "I don't expect a full reads list, but..." This comes off as perhaps a subconscious desire to not grill a buddy as harshly as a slot he may be intended to put legitimate pressure on, but he doesn't want to make it seem like he's asymmetrically demanding read lists.

H_A comes out and confirms "town reads" on bessie and plytho here. Obviously he's been trying to kindle Zen pressure so no suprise on the zen scum read. The backtracking on PW, who he seems to have been suggesting is noob town in earlier posts, is interesting. Clearly H_A wasn't ready to give PW a free pass out of mislynch viability despite going to bat for him earlier, however lightly.

heuristically_alone wrote:Bessie had the same thoughts of Zen as me, and plytho the same thoughts of PW as me. Also thought I would specifically let known my current stance on PW to be clear that I am not town reading him, and Zen that I am definitely not town reading, and still closer to neutral with him than scum, to avoid confusion of someone misinterprets my earlier posts.
Someone was feeling insecure about their Zen and PW posturing lol

heuristically_alone wrote:
Sabrar wrote:- Should this scenario occur then it's a bit easier for one of his scum-buddies to realize this, therefore scum-points would have been awarded to any Dgamer coming to the same conclusion.


So you now believe at least one non dgamer is scum?
Another softie question here. Chalk up more light sabrar interaction. H_A's interaction with sabrar seems pretty disproportionate in terms of frequency, even if the interactions aren't very complex. I just think this is important to note

heuristically_alone wrote:Madge's claimed ability would be interesting for scum to have a claim, almost like a fake jester to avoid getting lynched.

Another reason I think PW is town. As scum, he put on the appearance of wanting to learn to scumhint and asked lots of questions and actually put forth quite a few reads. PW looks more lost here than he did as scum and now that he has to try to do real reads as town, doesn't know where to begin.
Interesting distance from madge here, though I can't say conclusively that this wasn't deliberate false speculation meant to generate a feel of distance. Also notice he goes back to light defending PW. Shows a habit of wanting to buddy the town slots that run the risk of easy mislynch so that he can claim having the read right early on upon town flip. Sadly we don't see any other defenses like this from the slot for comparison.

heuristically_alone wrote:On moody: his meta seems pretty typical, an early reads list mostly with information going off of what other players have said. Doesnt usually spend much time on prodding or asking questions. He does seem a little more active than past games this early on though.

On Evil George Washington: I like his playstyle. Keeps pressure on players and asks follow up questions. Lots of active scum hunting. A dangerous player if he ends up rolling mafia.
H_A takes stands on a known scummate and EGW in the same post. Both assessments are pretty positive though he props up EGW much more here. This makes me wonder in H_A would have the balls to defend two scummates side by side in a single post like this. Important to note here that he throws a pro-town activity cookie to his confirmed buddy as if to avoid really analysing the slot, while he openly buddies EGW, going to far as to say he believes the slot to be actively scumhunting and that it would be a "scary" scumslot.

heuristically_alone wrote:Been out of town all weekend. Looks like I have quite a few pages to catch up on. I'll have some juicy reads for you all by end of day.
This disappointment I felt after realizing that this was H_A's last post must be what you all feel when I say I'm going to get caught up and redeem my slot and then end up totally blowing it. Feelsbadman.jpg

All in all the major takeaways from this are as follows:

1.) H_A and Sabrar has weird, low stakes light banter that never really becomes anything. In the context of H_A's light interactions with moody, this leans scummy IMO

2.) H_A proffers hard town reads on EGW and plytho. EGW he expands on, we don't really get any explanation for plytho.

3.) Bessie and H_A have a weird interaction insofar as this whole "let H_A answer things directed at him" comment coming from bessie is concerned. Again, hard to say if this is bessie being a controlling scum looking to mitigate a narrative re: a scummate gaining traction that she didn't like, or if she was genuinely scumhunting and didn't want H_A's response tainted by someone else answering for him which would dilute the reaction's read value. Also H_A does suggest he townreads bessie which could be a potential connection.

4.) EGW and H_A have tonally strange interaction re: the style difference between forums regarding aggressive early voting and fear of alpha strikes. Feels like more softballing to mates like he did with moody but hard to say.

I'll be back later with what I can clean from EOD/wagon analysis once I finish that reading up. I'll try to respond to people if you have questions for me throughout the day though I'm at work so I cant promise undivided attention to the thread

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:33 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Some weirdness: Sabrar pointed out the nature of the wraith power here. But seems to think moody could still use the nightkill here.
Didn't want to hint at knowing more than I should when I replied to you. There's nothing in the ability that prevents moody from taking actions.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:40 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:1.) H_A and Sabrar has weird, low stakes light banter that never really becomes anything. In the context of H_A's light interactions with moody, this leans scummy IMO
What banter? All of that is initiated by h_a and totally one-sided. You're basing your whole case on h_a's single comment to moody. That is ridiculous.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby bessie » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:16 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote: The reason why I like Madge's vote is because she made her own decision based on claims when she could have joined on Boom.
Yes but you’re overlooking the possibility that she didn't want to vote for BoomFrog because she is scum with BoomFrog.

Why is Sabrar targeting Madge with the watcher power if she is jailed?

mpolo, good to hear that you are recovering well from your surgery.

Agree with Red Ryu that BoomFrog is scummier than FrozenFlame.

plytho wrote:Why do you think we should test bessie’s power? I can’t imagine bessie inventing this power so testing it isn’t really going to tell us more about her alignment.

I still think it would be interesting to play a day with bessie’s power activated though.
I have no objections to using my power, but I keep thinking about this:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Regarding the setup and setup speculation. I have to disagree with Frozen. OS games are well thought out, but I wouldn't say they are definitely well balanced. They tend to be highly experimental and can be quite unstable. They are usually built upon the assumption that each player will be astute enough to utilize their role to its full potential, or at least utilize them in the way that OS intended.
I keep wondering if my power was intended to counter another power in the game (maybe it was Amrock or Gamma, they both had vote related goals and we don’t know that they were entirely truthful with their claims).

I won’t have time to respond to FrozenFlame’s post before work. I will try to respond when I get home.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:18 pm UTC

HA was responding to me when I was responding to Moody's statement that Smashboard players were more shoot from the hip style. I noticed people were not voting as much and I wanted to use that opportunity to talk about votes and encourage town to vote more, as voting is good. HA just responds to me in that instance, it seemed he was viewing and was in thread so it was easy for him to reply to non-scumhunting talk. I asked him in that manner since he was in thread, talking about non-game related content. I mention the readslist bit since it's early game, I only was just getting the game rolling with my Sabrar vote, so it is true that I would not expect a full readslist. My 'prose' is natural of me, I do like to write on the side. (Fanfiction) It would help town visualize how bad it is to let scum laugh at them from the sidelines. I don't know why HA brought up the town read on me but it was an easy read to fabricate.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:19 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Why is Sabrar targeting Madge with the watcher power if she is jailed?
The assumption is that FrozenFlame will be lynched and Sabrar will absorb the deflector.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:28 pm UTC

Plytho:

I don't know who MPOLO should switch on Frozen Flame scum flip. If you have a suggestion please speak up. I do think ninja note deliverer makes more sense then roleblock as Yolinda is dead. Boom received no result so it's possible Ryu is lying here.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:37 pm UTC

Yolinda wasn't dead at that point though.

Do you think RR is scum if FF is scum? Otherwise protecting RR is still the sensible thing to do isn't it?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:38 pm UTC

I do think Red Ryu is scum upon Frozen Flame scum.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:40 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:1.) H_A and Sabrar has weird, low stakes light banter that never really becomes anything. In the context of H_A's light interactions with moody, this leans scummy IMO
What banter? All of that is initiated by h_a and totally one-sided. You're basing your whole case on h_a's single comment to moody. That is ridiculous.
Maybe banter is the wrong word to describe your interactions but you HAD interaction with H_A. I literally quoted the posts I'm referring to so don't act like you have no interaction with the slot. And yes my whole "case", if you can even call it that, is based on what little content there is that follows H_A's known scummate interaction. I in no way said this was a conclusive case proving you scummates, but you're reacting like I've claimed as much. This comes off extremely defensive. I'm merely throwing out interactions that when view in context I think tend to make me lean scummy on the you/H_A interactions. You seem to have a real problem with that though, already attempting to undermine what I've admitted is a limited basis for my observations. Afraid people might take these links seriously when I flip town? Because this kind of a response really makes it seem that way

Evil George Washington wrote:HA was responding to me when I was responding to Moody's statement that Smashboard players were more shoot from the hip style. I noticed people were not voting as much and I wanted to use that opportunity to talk about votes and encourage town to vote more, as voting is good. HA just responds to me in that instance, it seemed he was viewing and was in thread so it was easy for him to reply to non-scumhunting talk. I asked him in that manner since he was in thread, talking about non-game related content. I mention the readslist bit since it's early game, I only was just getting the game rolling with my Sabrar vote, so it is true that I would not expect a full readslist. My 'prose' is natural of me, I do like to write on the side. (Fanfiction) It would help town visualize how bad it is to let scum laugh at them from the sidelines. I don't know why HA brought up the town read on me but it was an easy read to fabricate.
Re: the bolded

1.) Can you point me to another player who you somewhat contempraneously asked for a reads with but with similar limiting language i.e. "you don't have to provide a full list" or something similar that peels back the weight of your request? I'm not saying there was NO reason for you to acknowledge that a full reads list might have been a big ask for so early in the game. What I am saying is that this looks like special treatment toward H_A, EVEN IF there was reason for it. That reasoning, though valid, could have been a convenient cover for said special treatment. Show me that you treated others similarly in that same period of the game and then my observation here obviously carries less weight.

2.) Re: the prose, I'm not saying that this is "forced" or "unnatural" language for you as I'm sure you're more than capable of writing in more flowery prose. My observation here is that I haven't seen you martial that type of writing style anywhere else in this game, which made it stand out to me. But again, I've been terrible this game in plenty of ways, reading with superb attention to detail being one of those, so it's very possible I've missed you doing this at another point this game. Again, point me to it and I'll readily accept that I'm exceptionalizing what is actually unexceptional content

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:42 pm UTC

My head is spinning here. I was expecting the sweat embrace of death and then either being totally right and groaning as town doesn't listen to me, or being totally wrong and groaning as town does listen to me.

EGW's interaction through this ordeal has been in a very townie way. Even finding me scummy he kept considering my reads, engaging me, and was willing to reconsider. Sabrar and plytho's interaction have not been. We've mislynched twice in a row essentially, Sabrar should be more panicked. Of course I'm "desperate to find someone to lynch", there's no obvious scum. At least plytho is making the right kind of comments about being uncertain. However, he still following his pattern of being so uncertain that he just goes with the flow and isn't responsible for what actually happens. I'm leaning town on EGW and scum still on plytho and Sabrar.

@plytho: Why did you park your vote on me D3 when I wasn't a viable lynch candidate? Why not vote someone you found scummy with more consensus like FF?

FrozenFlame wrote:3.) Bessie and H_A have a weird interaction insofar as this whole "let H_A answer things directed at him" comment coming from bessie is concerned. Again, hard to say if this is bessie being a controlling scum looking to mitigate a narrative re: a scummate gaining traction that she didn't like, or if she was genuinely scumhunting and didn't want H_A's response tainted by someone else answering for him which would dilute the reaction's read value. Also H_A does suggest he townreads bessie which could be a potential connection.

4.) EGW and H_A have tonally strange interaction re: the style difference between forums regarding aggressive early voting and fear of alpha strikes. Feels like more softballing to mates like he did with moody but hard to say.
Holy shit dude, this sauce is so weak it can't get out bed in the morning. You know bessie is virtually confirmed town right? And this EGW stuff is actually evidence that EGW is town.
FrozenFlame wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:On moody: his meta seems pretty typical, an early reads list mostly with information going off of what other players have said. Doesnt usually spend much time on prodding or asking questions. He does seem a little more active than past games this early on though.

On Evil George Washington: I like his playstyle. Keeps pressure on players and asks follow up questions. Lots of active scum hunting. A dangerous player if he ends up rolling mafia.
H_A takes stands on a known scummate and EGW in the same post. Both assessments are pretty positive though he props up EGW much more here. This makes me wonder in H_A would have the balls to defend two scummates side by side in a single post like this. Important to note here that he throws a pro-town activity cookie to his confirmed buddy as if to avoid really analysing the slot, while he openly buddies EGW, going to far as to say he believes the slot to be actively scumhunting and that it would be a "scary" scumslot.

I'm all for reading subtle intent into off-hand comments, and I agree with the conclusion you're implying here. H_a wouldn't be bold enough to prop two scumbuddies together, and his propping of EGW is more blatant, and he also slides in that subtle seed of doubt on EGW. How did you get from here to EGW and H_A being mates?

Also, what's your read of plytho? You do realize with less then 12 hours to deadline the lynch is going to be me, you or plytho right?
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