As Sabrar said, defending yourself always comes off as WIFOM. It makes it seem like the posts that a person is using to defend themselves were said purposefully, to be used for the very act of defending themselves. Nevertheless I will try, because 1) I am a very cooperative player. I really would prefer for my town reads to also town read me so that we can work together. It really gets under my skin when my town reads, scum read me. plytho and laser are two people high on my town list right now and I'd like to try and rectify their misguidance so that we can hunt actual scum. 2) No one is doing it for me! plyth, Laser, and Sabrar are completely overlooking the parts of my play that contradicts their speculation (confirmation bias). You guys are coming at me with a theory already in mind and then viewing my posts with that perspective. Again, this is keeping you from seeing the points that contradict your theory, which otherwise might be noticeable from an unbiased perspective.
Before I go into why I'm not likely scum mates with moody (using the term likely here because I'm going at it from a not-me perspective), let me say something regarding my voting style and wagon style compared to the general play here on xkcd. I said before that the differences between dgames and xkcd are fewer than the similarities. Nevertheless, they still exist, and our voting pattern is indeed one of them (as Sabrar mentioned). Wagons in dgames are good. Voting is good. Not all of us use our votes in the same way, but the majority of us use it as a scum hunting tool, not simply as the mechanic to lynch someone. Pressure (through votes) is good and often gets good Intel on the player being pressured and those joining in on the wagon. Wagon building is good, especially when they are between two alternatives. If one is of alignment_a (presumably town, but could also be indy or another faction) and of alignment_b (presumably mafia), this puts mafia in a position where they have to choose to either bus or risk defending their mate. As boom put it, it's a gold mine for reads.
Because I use my vote as scum hunting tool, it tends to be erratic. As town though, I do my best to land it on scum at the end of the day, which is what matters.
It is also the reason why I built up the Jim wagon near the end of the day. I wanted competing wagons, particularly one that would be difficult to build. You don't get as much from easy wagons, because scum can easily justify joining one or the other. Ryu and Gamma were both really easy alternatives to moody.
Anyway, why I'm not mates with moody:
X. I don't bus. This point isn't one that you guys would have gotten by reading the game as it's meta. But it is legit the ONLY thing about my meta that is absolutely true and consistent. (I totally lied yesterday about how I wouldn't defend my bud. I totally would. I just said that to see if Sabrar would switch to Jim. Sorry Sabrar I know you have a LAL type of policy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). THIS META HOWEVER IS 100% LEGIT && I HAVE THE EVIDENCE. I have mentioned this multiple times elsewhere. And I'm slightly annoyed that George hasn't mentioned this, because I have spilled this philosophy to him on multiple occasions. I absolutely will never bus my mate. I hate bussing with a passion. It has so little strategic value. Most town players are super paranoid of bussing so the return on investment is almost always negative, because town will speculate that you bussed anyway. All you do by bussing is progress town's wincon. Your team has to play through more day phases and town thus has more time to smoke you out. You lose the abilities of your mate. You lose the voting power of your mate. You lose the voice of your mate. So many cons!
I always hard town read my mates as scum. I never bring attention toward the things they say, because scummates often see scummy behavior in their mates that town otherwise would not see. So fake scum hunting your mates is horrible, because you're likely to bring up legit points that town would have never seen. I could go on and on about this, but here are previous posts of mine that lay this meta bare:
¶ Ž said: ↑
Well don't bus [each other] either. If any if my partners die, I completely lose motivation to play. If you push each other, it has to be on things that aren't actually really that scummy, otherwise you just end up bringing attention to one another that town wouldn't have noticed in the first place.Post
Xivii: "Xast you're being way too paranoid of me >_>. I am known for making gambits as town. I hate bussing and would never do it unless it would put scum at a mechanical advantage. If you look at any of my scum games you will see that I always keep my mates as town. Throwing your mate under the bus is foolish as it hardly ever pays off."Post
Xivii: "No. I never bus my scummates. See: Fire Emblem."Post
Dabuz: "Ranmaru pretty much has me, feel free to bus lol."
Xivii: "No way bro. We in this 'til the end. Ran is suspicious now, but it's not permanent. Xastrn is going to be the one killed today. Then the night is in our court and we can easily take out Ran (or kanty cause his towniness is annoying lol).Post
Reasons I'm likely not scum mates with moody (based on in-game non-meta posts):
1. I am the one that initally brought attention to moody.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I'm reading isos right now and will make a read post later once I get some questions answered. In the mean time, can you figure out moody's alignment for me? I'm having difficulty.
People began to give their input on moody in response to this post, and I think this is where players started to actually consider the read. There's lit. no point of scum!Zen making this post. All it would be doing is bringing unnecessary attention to his mate when there wasn't even any to begin with.
I am also the first one to have made a point of suspicion against him.
#HBC | Zyth wrote: Sabrar wrote: #HBC | Zyth wrote: bessie wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Scum can't be misguided because they'd know you aren't scum. Pretty straight forward.
Why? We could have two scum teams.
: how often do you have 2 scum-teams? Is it reasonable for Zen to forget this?
I didn't "forget", it's just not convention from my experience. I wasn't aware that it was such a common thing here, but seeing that multiple players from this site have stated the likelihood of there being two teams, I see it as reasonable for h_a to think so. I actually suspected that there were probably more than one team, but not because it's a large game, rather because of my previous experience in an OS game. h_a's hard stance on there being to teams is actually why he initially caught my attention. Seemed a bit too insightful. Now that I know that it's a common thing here, I can disregard that line of suspicion. Honestly now it seems more weird to me those from this site that didn't consider two teams in their setup prediction (i.e moody).
2. jimbob / Dark Horse would have been a really ridiculous counter wagons to a moody wagon. Ryu and Gamma were both really easy pushes. Especially gamma. The only way there is scum!Zen here is if Ryu and Gamma are also on the same team. My jimbob case was super weak and Frozen was the only other person looking at jim as a possible candidate at that time. Why the hell would scum!Zen choose jim, JIM as the wagon to save his scummate moody? Seriously, plytho / sabrar / laser you really need to answer this if your argument is going to hold any weight. It's really suspect that when Frozen brought this up, Sabrar simply brushed it off with a "maybe they're all scum meep moop".
3. I was always
going to switch over to moody if jim didn't get the votes. And I was no way going to have the day end with a no lynch. I wanted counter wagons so that scum would have to choose between one or the other. When I felt the deadlock was reached, and we thus got all we could out of the competing wagons, I was going to switch over to moody and bring everyone on the jim wagon with me, and that is what I did. You can see this being conveyed through this progression of posts:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:@Zyth: Moody is about 70% chance to be scum. This is as confident as I get D1.
I believe it.
I'd much rather lynch one of the other three I posted, but I have no reason to fight a Moody lynch. If it comes down to it, I'll support it over Gamma.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:George, we'll always be able to swing back to moody if need be.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Vote jim and at least help me put scum in a position where they are forced to choose.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Spak, choose a wagon.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:smh should've went for Spak.
(btw, here spak not voting on either of the top two wagons here was mad scummy. one of the things i was looking for)
#HBC | Zyth wrote: FrozenFlame wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:smh should've went for Spak.
I tried, but it's not possible without either George or Boom, based on wagonomics.
I don't think I'll be able to make another post today. Moody is the play. Anyone not on that wagon needs to hop over immediately.
@ruy @spak @whale @mpolo
I think I clearly had town's interest at heart. Most of my "im so gud" crap is just silly bluster. I'm not actually that great at town. I do however think I have a genuine talent for wagonomics. I have a good instinct for when and which votes need to be moved for a wagon to form and a lynch to go through. If I didn't want moody to be lynched, he wouldn't have been lynched. If I didn't move my vote then and there, the day would have ended in a no lynch or a Gamma lynch. Which brings me to my final point.
4. Right before I switched to moody, plytho and Frozen were trying to get a last minute swing toward gamma. This is actually why I voted moody at that exact moment, cause Frozen made a post right before trying to make a play towards Gamma.
FrozenFlame wrote:So yeah I'll try to be as available as possible as deadline approaches. I'm stick with the Jim wagon but if people are that bent out of shape about it I think Gamma is a great alternative. This moody wagon gives me really bad vibes
If you're serious about the Gamma move you need to get that organized. This only works if you round up people willing to switch at a predetermined time, well before deadline. Everyone switches at the same time, if it's not enough, switch right back to something viable. Otherwise you might have people that switched but can't switch back because they're asleep.
FrozenFlame wrote: plytho wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:If you're serious about the Gamma move you need to get that organized. This only works if you round up people willing to switch at a predetermined time, well before deadline. Everyone switches at the same time, if it's not enough, switch right back to something viable. Otherwise you might have people that switched but can't switch back because they're asleep.
I'm seriously about being willing to move to Gamma if people prefer that lynch to Jimbob but obviously I'm not going to mobilize a shift off jimbob, who I would prefer to lynch, just to move to Gamma. I'm just saying that if Gamma becomes a wagon I'll be around to and will move to it if we end up deciding jimbob is definitively not a play.
Right after these is when I make my let's mobilize on moody post, because I was afraid of them swinging the lynch toward gamma. Looking back on it, I think this is the strongest evidence for town!Zen (or at least nonBudsWithmoodyZen). The only scenario that this is not the case is if Gamma is on the same team as Zen-moody.