Evil George Washington wrote: Bessie: You noted Day 1 that you had Myself, Jim, Zen, and Sabrar in the interesting list. Day 1, you never got around to this for Zen and Sabrar. Can you explain what those [interesting things] were, and why they were interesting to you? Also, you stated my case on Boomfrog D2 re-inforced your N1 pings, but you never factored that into your read of Boom D2. What exactly pinged from Boomfrog N1, and why didn't you bring it up D2? Can you go into your reasoning for D1 Zen town?
I think you’re reading way too much into my sarcastic use of the word interesting. From the same post:
bessie wrote:Note: You’re all interesting to me! When playing mafia, I use the work “interesting” to indicate something that caught my interest or to indicate that I don’t think something you said is quite right! So being on my “interesting” list is not necessarily a good thing!
bessie wrote:Congratulations. The rest of you are on the “interesting” list. Will need considerably more time for these four
You four were the most time consuming reads, in that you had the most content and/or it was the most difficult content to analyze. Sabrar is a tough read for me. We have a history of disagreeing, and have had to apologize to each other for remarks made in the past (to be honest, this is my problem, as I am passive aggressive and rude and I have to apologize to someone in almost every game). Yesterday I referenced one of those “interesting things” in this post
. It’s something where I can’t point to what is pinging me, but I haven’t moved it up to my discard pile. There was another post that I have in my “still pondering” section of my notes that I thought was by Sabrar, but I just checked the link so I could quote it and I had it labeled wrong, it’s by plytho. With Zen, the reason I never got back to him on D1 was time. You should know enough about my style by now. You've seen the type of reads and analysis I do. I’m not a good scum hunter, in that I’m not good at behavior or meta tell or gut instinct type reads. I do post by post analysis, picking out things that I find “interesting” and use those things to develop my questions, then I just start throwing pebbles at people and see where it goes, if something interesting happens I throw rocks next. I don’t have a very organized mind, so I can’t read twenty pages of content, ponder it as a whole, and then write down a read. And I’m not a good writer, and it amazes me how quickly some people can compose a post. It takes me hours. Without rereading Zen’s D1 content, all I can say is that I felt positive enough about it to lean town. Hmm, I just checked my spreadsheet, I have a column where I record my gut read right at the end of each day, and I have a scum lean on ten players (note: I avoid neutral reads because I feel it is a cop out). My main ping from BoomFrog has to do with the moody read, see here
#HBC | Zyth wrote: Based on how little moody did to try and save himself, I doubt he and his team thought there was much hope in saving him. And it's likely that scum mostly consists of cautious players. You're forgetting that we did the prevote tally thing before we even started voting. Moody would have looked doomed to a cautious-playing scum team. It would have been too risky in their eyes to go out and try and push for someone else when in all likelihood moody was going to be the play. If they were pushing someone else when moody was lynched, their scummy arses would have been left out right in the open.
Some meta info on moody. He has a scummy meta (sorry moody nothing personal, you know I like playing with you). He has often been lynched early in the game for it. It’s a bit of a forum joke, kind of like my meta is (for the opposite reason). moody took a break from the game for a while, so you need to go back to older games to find examples, which I don’t have time to do right now. I think there were a couple games where I made a town read on him and “apologized” for it, saying I was sorry for disappointing him, and I would try harder the next day to find something scummy in his content. Anyway, moody has a scummy meta, it was quite possible that he would be lynched at some point in the game (even if he was town), so it is very possible that once his lynch started to gain some momentum he was bussed by his teammates (perhaps even at his suggestion). I’ve been wondering if anyone else that knows moody’s meta would bring this up, and they haven’t, I’m a bit suspicious as to why (so FOS BoomFrog, Madge, and mpolo, maybe Sabrar I need to think about whether or not Sabrar has played with moody enough to know this) .
#HBC | Zyth wrote:It's not a meta difference. Others (Laser et al.) have picked up on it as well. What I'm saying and what Ran was saying are different. Ran likes live interactions. That's what he wanted from you. I'm saying that you've done very little prodding and commenting of me and a few others (such as spak and jim and sabrar). It was as if you were waiting to commit to a read one way or the other. It didn't feel like this lack of commitment was coming from being unsure though, because you weren't actively trying to develop these reads through prodding and questioning. So I suspect that you either: (A) just didn't have the time to get into us as deeply as you wanted to, since there were so many players and so much to read; (B) were just waiting to see which way the wind blew before you committed a thorough read on these players; Or (C) were having trouble faking a read on us. Again, I feel like if it were the first case -- you not having enough time to do a deep analysis -- that you still would have been prodding and questioning us.
It’s (A). I have no way to convince you of this except to say that this is a much larger game than I am used to playing. I’ll also point out that the days are quite a bit shorter than what we normally have (the 5ish-day days were not the norm until recently). We usually have much longer days (1-2 weeks) and everyone was not expected to post every day, the acceptable minimum was one good post every 1-2 days.
#HBC | Zyth wrote: I honestly don't know what you find scummy about jim. I also don't think you've argued why plytho is scum rather than simply plytho.
What makes you think plytho is just being plytho? If you want to use meta, he’s acting more like he did in his scum games (though inconclusive, small sample size and his two most recent games were scum).
#HBC | Zyth wrote: I read over plytho in Fridge. You're either misreading this situation because of Fridge, or you're intentionally misconstruing it.
I will think about your suggestion that I am misreading this, as you (theoretically) have an impartial view on that game and I don’t.
#HBC | Zyth wrote: @bessie can you tell us more about PW's role? Did he target you n0 or n1? Did his ability target a player and if they were town they became a Mason with him? Or were you already Masons and he was a one-shot Cop. Or was he a one-shot Cop and a one-shot Masonizer?
Maybe after everyone posts. If Sabrar and Evil George Washington both ask me to.
#HBC | Zyth wrote: @bessie: jim, plytho, Laser scum amiright?
Thinking about it.
Sabrar wrote: I completely agree that she became lazy after I defended her but that doesn't influence my original read on her.
Has anyone ever told you that you are frustratingly stubborn?
plytho wrote: Well I was (and still kind of am) frustrated about you doubting my sincerity, implying I’m deliberately and happily riling you up while I’m very frustrated with the whole thing. I’m not deliberately trying to make your game miserable and I’m upset that you think that’s what I’m trying to do.
I don’t doubt your sincerity, I doubt your towniness, and I see some of your actions in this game as an attempt to distract me or discredit me. But seriously plytho, I hope you’re not taking anything that happens in this game personally, I’m not trying to upset you. And don’t worry about riling me up, you have nothing on the imbeciles at my work, who I am convinced secretly conspire to create ways to piss me off.
Evil George Washington wrote: I find this suspect because he originally was waiting for Bessie so he could give his reason for voting Moody. He voted Moody stating he wouldn't give his details until Bessie posted or I asked nicely for it. I find this to be an odd quip as if scumreading her for not being able to give him content he could use in his own reasoning afterword.
This is similar to my thoughts.
Evil George Washington wrote:PW was pretty obvious with who he was going to target. It's possible MPOLO switched her around, I'm not ruling that out.
You're forgetting about the Mason part. There will be a counterclaim if someone else was talking to PW.
Interesting , Sabrar and Evil George Washington seem to have forgotten mpolo targeted someone else N1. Hmm, also noted by plytho here
plytho wrote: A one shot communication cop seems like a weak power for this game. It also does not match with the stuff Peaceful Whale was claiming.
Your knowledge of the setup is noted.
Sabrar wrote: Too many egos flying around.
plytho wrote: I keep mentioning it because you said I was “definitely not scum with moody” in one of your first reads lists. You’re right that my contribution to moody’s lynch wasn’t coming from a strong push to lynch moody. I was trying to counter Zen’s wagon on jimbob. I didn’t care which of moody, Gamma or Red Ryu would be lynched. I just really didn’t thrust Zen’s move. My vote for moody indicates that I had no problem voting for him.
It would be a very weird stance for me to take as scum on moody’s team. And one team is looking more and more likely.
Also noted. So your top priority in voting on D1 was saving jimbobmacdoodle, lynching scum was only incidental?
bessie wrote:And since when do experienced players ask a cop to claim a town result?
Since the cop had already essentially claimed? If the cop had full-claimed, we would expect them to report every result they took, along with reasons for targeting each player and so on.
Disagree. Soft claiming and claiming are not the same thing, even if the soft claim was unintentionally obvious.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: At what point there did I say that there was only one team? I was asking for your opinion on the setup, although I acknowledge that I was indirectly pointing out what most players have already stated, namely that they don't think moody and I could be buddies. I wanted to understand why you felt that I could be buddies with moody, if that was what you believed.
So you’re implying that since everyone says you’re not moody’s buddy, I’m the odd one for not following the pack?
Madge - She was too willing to hammer the bomb D2 (see this post
). I don't see this coming from scum (jester, yes, scum, no). Now that I think about it, this point also makes me doubt my possible indie read of her, unless it's a win condition that can be achieved whilst being dead (which I doubt, because indie!Madge would surely be tied to her half-lynched ability/role/thing).
Where did anyone actually see Madge attempt to do some of these things she’s being given credit for doing? She conveniently wasn’t even around at the end of D2 until after the hammer fell.
Madge wrote:Why do people want me to hammer? Is it just to prove the tree stump thing? I would ask to be mislynched instead (because face it, it's probably the ONLY WAY people will believe I'm town), except for the obvious fact that my mislynch would prevent a possible scum lynch. Even so, you're still effectively mislynching me because you are all talking about how useless my reads/etc are, so why make me limp through the game as a powerless tree stump? I'll still do my best because I'm 55 pages in and I'll be damned if I let a grudge hurt town, but it's not like it's going to have 0 impact on my motivation levels, you know?
You don’t need to tree stump yourself to prove your towniness. You could like, scumhunt or something, instead of continuing to emphasize your worthlessness (because I know you’re not incapable of being brilliant).
BoomFrog wrote: Bessie is also clearly in the "out of sync with the thread" club.
I was hoping to improve on this today but I’m already behind, and I’ve been working on this post for more than two hours.
Madge wrote:Not going to do a D3 vote analysis yet or maybe at all. My read on Sabrar is that he hasn't made a claim that could contradict anything, but he could be defending me because he's scum wanting townie points for defending a (basically useless) townie. Neutral/townie.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:bessie. bessie's play is what next caught my eye. In DT she did much more scum hunting. She was more inquisitive and made many more points against people. This is exactly what I felt she was lacking here. Like she hasn't actually been trying to develop reads. bessie was town in DT.
Read this post, and ask me if you have any specific concerns.
mpolo wrote:I think it's pretty clear that Madge is town. Because of her play style, an existence as a tree stump would be far worse than death -- can only discuss, not vote or use powers, and she feels very uncertain of her reads, so discussion is not always "fun" for her.
And honestly, the "let's test this" mentality on something where "testing" means essentially removing the person from the game irrevocably seems to be pretty short-sighted. If you prove that Madge was telling the truth, you make her useless. If you prove that she was lying, you waste a day on someone who is unlikely to be scum.
Agree with all of this, except the strong town read. I supported the tree stumping for the purpose of absorbing Amrock’s kill and saving a townie, if by doing so would still allow Madge to continue playing. But to take her out just because is wrong. If we feel she is scum we should lynch her, if we are not confident enough to lynch her we shouldn’t force her to tree stump.
And ninja'd again and again.