Crossover Mafia | Game!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:06 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Traditionally it takes 3 prods before the mod takes action on a player in dgames. Since there aren't usually replacement options, a lurker can pretty much through a couple of day phases or more without posting, sadly. Not sure how Yolo is going to go about it.

In this case there are 2 replacements which should make that option more likely? But you're right, it depends on how the mods want to handle it.

Evil George Washington wrote:Problem with that mindset is that it causes town to eat itself if most of the scumteam is lurking. It also makes it more likely for scum to use lurking as an option unless they are competent. That is why I'm open to active and inactive scum. Have you guys lost games due to most of the scumteam lurking or not?
Not in the 4 games I've played. Active lurkers get lynched and in that small sample I haven't seen more than one inactive player/replacement per game. I haven't seen lurking as a scum team strategy.

Evil George Washington wrote:While we are chatting, how do we link to posts? (Neatly)

There's a small file icon to the left of the username tag "by plytho » 10 Sep 2017 09:29" that links to the post. Right click, copy link address and put in a [url].
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:46 am UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:
plytho wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:Maven89 - Honestly pretty decent, nothing that he's said has particularly struck me as scum or town. But on the townie side.
If nothing struck you as town, why townie?
I wouldn't be surprised if maven flips scum, but he's not all that scummy right now, should I have said neutral?
If you can't pin a read on him you can say neutral but you're saying things like 'pretty decent' and 'on the townie side'. There must have been a reason why you said that if you can point out that reason your reads list becomes stronger. Please point to posts that support your read.

Peaceful Whale wrote:
plytho wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:moody7277. Moody always seems scummy to me, it may be because of my bias, but that's it. Other than that he's pretty townie.
what are you saying here? Moody looks scummy but other than that he looks townie? Can you point out townie posts and scummy posts from moody?
I think part of me thinking moody as scum, is the fact that his name has a negative connotation, and last game I thought he was our recruit. (Sorry plytho for pushing for your lynch do much, I didn't realize you were recruit :P I thought so, but I wasn't sure)
Like I said, it's really just that, he's up on the townie side. Just becuase he isn't scummy. What I meant by I think he's scummy is my own weird bias.
Ok, so you're generally thinking of moody as scum because of your bias but you're not seeing scummy behaviour in his posts so you conclude he's townie?

Also, can you make a town to scum list? That can help you make stronger reads since you need to think why for example moody is slightly more townie than maven.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:51 am UTC

How do we ISO people? (I'm just re-reading page by page)

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:59 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:How do we ISO people? (I'm just re-reading page by page)

Below the last post you can sort the thread by author.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:11 am UTC

Reads List

Maven89 - This is the first time I actually have a really positive read on Maven. He was looking into Moody’s intent long before I ever looked into it. Sad thing is he walls so it slips from my vision until I actually re-read the thread. I asked Moody a question twice that Maven has already asked and has even gone to talk about his possible motivation (which I was thinking of, yet haven’t even talked about yet). Post Town.

Sabrar - I like Sabrar. Active, and has defended himself well against my accusations towards him. Still interested in his reads, but I do like his read on Moody. Slight town.

Peaceful Whale - I think Peace Whale is putting his foot in his mouth far too many times to be a strong candidate for mafia. He also seems eager and aloof, while being playful. I think this supports the thought that he is newbie town with no hidden motives. Same as before. Bessie mentions that he may be trying to pretend to be a noob and a certain detail seemed convincing but I'd need more to reconsider.

Bessie - Very thorough and seems to be tunneling on PW. One detail from her almost pushed me to reconsider my stance on PW. I think she’s slight town. Interested in seeing her reads list, I am always sad that she is behind because I’d like to see more of her posts. :goodposting:

Dark Horse - Lurked out without saying a thing. If we are lynching a lurker, he’s my choice.

Znirk - I like Znirk’s style. Sadly I don’t know much else, I was hoping he’d follow up on his questioning. He’s null and would love to see more content from him.

Plytho - I like his posts as time goes on. I like his questioning and the content he has produced. I like the effort and his defense of PW. Slight town.

#HBC | Zyth - Slight town. I liked his iniative in the beginning of the game, but now I need to know his thoughts on the overall cast, and his case for his scumreads.

Sir Gabe, MPOLO, Znirk, HA, Gamma, Red Ryu, Frozen Flame, Mpolo - Null.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:13 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle - Null-Scum. One thing I dislike about Jimbo is that he posts an opinion and doesn’t really re-evaluate. It makes it easy for him to mention a person and not have to mention them again. If this is the case, if he has such little time to post, why would he mention Boom Frog at an early stage of the game and say ‘nothing to see here’ and then later in the game when there is content, doesn’t mention him at all. I also dislike his reads on Maven and Moody.

Moody7277 - Scum. I feel he was too quick to give MPOLO the benefit of the doubt and then was trying to dodge the question as Maven himself stated. I think this all leads from the fact that he was answering a question to Gamma, in the effort to seem town. He thinks “You know, town probably would not want to lynch MPOLO because of possible chaos.” So he says it because he thinks he’ll get town cred for doing so, but it’s actually more likely scum would say that and town would simply show it in their actions. From that answer, Heuristically Alone questions him, asking why he would not want to remove the chaos. Then, after he does, Moody responds stating that he gives MPOLO town points. Then Sabrar takes that as scum indicative. That’s townie points to Sabrar. I think he gave MPOLO townie points so that he could justify his initial response to Gamma. If he hadn’t given him the benefit of the doubt after the fact, then he would definitely be out of place with what he said originally.
1 2

BoomFrog - Scum. He has Jimbob as a top scum read but after hopping off Dark Horse, he doesn’t vote Jimbob, ask him a question or make a conclusion on him. Gives me the feeling he doesn’t truly care about sorting, and is fine with offing which ever lurker he can get. His Not Mafia reasoning on MPOLO seems forced. I don't see how it seems like something an Indy would do, seems null.

Unvote; Vote: Boomfrog

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:15 am UTC

I also think BoomFrog may have been giving MPOLO not mafia points to help support Moody's mistake of giving MPOLO free townie points. So if one is scum, I would look at the other.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:26 am UTC

Red text is reserved for the forum mods. (see forum rule 10)
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:29 am UTC

Thank you for letting me know, I'll not do that again.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:38 am UTC

Maven, when you get the chance, vote Boomfrog with me. Same thing to Peace Whale. Vote Boomfrog. I'm going to sleep.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:43 am UTC

... I like your reasoning, but I'm worried about being misled by scum, or voting a townie... I do think voting the lurker is a good idea, only if they don't get replaced... (I don't really like how you just told me to vote for boomfrog, I saw your reasoning, but I like to wait a little) voting boomfrog could put pressure on her/him... I'll try, but if it turns out boomfrog is town, I'll be angry/sad. Also you'd be placed on the scum list.

Here goes nothing.

Vote Boomfrog
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Znirk » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:53 am UTC

Long thread is long. I'll be over here, catching up.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I wasn't aware that it (= having two scum factions) was such a common thing here, but seeing that multiple players from this site have stated the likelihood of there being two teams, I see it as reasonable for h_a to think so. I actually suspected that there were probably more than one team, but not because it's a large game, rather because of my previous experience in an OS game. h_a's hard stance on there being to teams is actually why he initially caught my attention. Seemed a bit too insightful. Now that I know that it's a common thing here, I can disregard that line of suspicion.

Don't. I don't think it's common here (though perhaps that's because our games tend to come in around 10 players, so having two flavours of scum might leave you with not enough townies).

[I'll count this exchage as mildly suspicious behaviour from both Heury and Not-Zyth-but-something-else-with-a-zed]

BoomFrog wrote:(directed at Peaceful Whale) I know you don't want to try and scum hunt because you think you're bad at it, but you get good at things by bring bad at them first. So start scum hunting and learn by doing. I understand that you are a smart kid and you are used to impressing people on your first try. Fear of failure is a crippling problem if you let it become a habit. Give yourself permission to be bad at something, you don't have to impress us, you just have to be willing to try and fail.

Town points for that. Though not necessarily in the game :)

Madge wrote:Oh, and I generally don't like to do reads. I don't get anything out of them because I"m bad at scumhunting and they take me a hell of a lot of time. Once we have some good data - flips, night results (anyone in a sharing mood rn?) - then I'll be ready to find contradictions and all that fun stuff. But until then, I kind of suck.

For the record, this seems to be Madge's standard mode during Day 1.

heuristically_alone wrote:Another reason I think PW is town. As scum, he put on the appearance of wanting to learn to scumhunt and asked lots of questions and actually put forth quite a few reads. PW looks more lost here than he did as scum and now that he has to try to do real reads as town, doesn't know where to begin.

That makes sense to me; but do we know whether Mafia has daychat? (Doesn't seem to be explicit in the rules) They did in that last game, and it might be what's making the difference in scum!whale if this time he can't be held back by scummates during the day.
Still, I suggest not lynching the newbie for being new. Putting Whale a hair townward of neutral for now, because as per my impression, this time he's more confused himself than out to confuse others.

Unsubstantiated reads:

- Madge: currently looks towny enough that I'm considering voting her to activate her special effects. Bit of a policy issue with that though, because now voting Madge is a way for people to not commit to an opinion.

- Evil George: I like what I see. Active, engaged, asks questions and follows up. A bit like Sabrar if Sabrar was any good at scum-reads.

- Plytho: Unspecific ping. I'll need to reread him isolated, but no time now.

- Boomfrog: Similar to Plytho. I'll have to look at Evil George's reasoning in more detail.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:50 pm UTC

[quote="Znirk"]
That makes sense to me; but do we know whether Mafia has daychat? (Doesn't seem to be explicit in the rules) /quote]
@Bessie, are you seeing what I'm seeing here?

Znirk, I remember yolo explicitly saying there would be daychat in the separate thread announcing this game.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:06 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar, how's your reads list coming? I'm working on one. I hope you are too.
Got to a computer 30 minutes ago, still have a lot of distractions (edit: plus I just had to retype this post due to power outage). Don't want to make promises I can't keep but I'm working on it.

Evil George Washington wrote:Problem with that mindset is that it causes town to eat itself if most of the scumteam is lurking. It also makes it more likely for scum to use lurking as an option unless they are competent. That is why I'm open to active and inactive scum. Have you guys lost games due to most of the scumteam lurking or not?
During my second game here we had 3 players not posting anything D2 (2 of them were scum). Town was totally indecisive and we mislynched and lost in the end. Ever since that game I'm a-okay with lynching lurkers anytime.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:06 pm UTC

Vote Count 1.5
Frozenflame (1): Gamma Emerald
Peaceful Whale (1): Red Ryu
Dark Horse (1): #HBC | Zyth
Madge (1): Madge
BoomFrog (3): Spak, Evil George Washington, Peaceful Whale
Red Ryu (2): BoomFrog, plytho
jimbobmacdoodle (1): Frozenflame

Not Voting (10): heuristically_alone, Bessie, Dark Horse, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, mpolo, Sabrar, moody7277, SirGabriel, Maven89

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch!

Deadline Clock: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/basketball?iso=20170913T235959&p0=198&msg=D1+End&font=sanserif

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby moody7277 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:07 pm UTC

SirGabriel wrote:For the record, I was the first person to mention the possibility of two scum teams. I can't recall seeing a game this large on this forum that didn't have multiple scum teams (which, admittedly, doesn't necessarily mean anything since the mod isn't from around here).


My experience has been mostly single scum teams even in very large games (Seaside, both Smalltowns, Stargate, Mega's large game). The only times I been in a multiple team were the first DeathNote (which was a rather unique setup) and Hangover (which was confusing to say the least).

Evil George Washington wrote:Why are you violating that deal? Can you expand on this?


It's not a deal, it's a concept. It meant I probably shouldn't be fully trusting in mpolo saying he didn't do anything because no one has said they were affected.

So, if your sure I'm scum, does my behavior towards mpolo imply he's scum as well?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:22 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:I have never played in a game with two scum teams,
moody7277 wrote:My experience has been mostly single scum teams even in very large games (Seaside, both Smalltowns, Stargate, Mega's large game).
Smalltown 2 had Werevolves + Aliens as scum-teams plus a bunch of indies.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby moody7277 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:27 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
moody7277 wrote:I have never played in a game with two scum teams,
moody7277 wrote:My experience has been mostly single scum teams even in very large games (Seaside, both Smalltowns, Stargate, Mega's large game).
Smalltown 2 had Werevolves + Aliens as scum-teams plus a bunch of indies.


Thank you for refreshing my memory. It also had the biggest of all reasons to hate jesters (although by that point I had been NKed).
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:17 pm UTC

Note to self: DGamers play a lot more, post more and have an entirely different environment. I got the feeling that they are more likely to take their already established meta-reads as given, even with complete strangers. Therefore I should lessen (but not dismiss entirely) the impact of any action/read that comes from this mindset.

bessie: I know how she hates it so I'm going to say it anyway: this looks like standard town!bessie. It contains all the elements I expected from her and in the right tone as well. Also this is an excellent post. The only thing that is slightly pinging me is her refraining from setup speculation just because DGamers said it would be waste of time. It's very unlike her to pander to the whims of others (paraphrased). To note: her D1 tunnels are usually right when she's Town.

BoomFrog: I keep alternating between not liking his content and agreeing with him completely. Don't like his explanation for his vote (finding me scummy but applying pressure to PW). The first part of this does not follow from his approach (if he gives townie points for mpolo revealing info he shouldn't say scum!mpolo would be scared giving info as mpolo modded Shakespeare where BoomFrog already expressed these views). This however is solid (note that he explains his vote immediately in contrast with his first 2 posts). This is just wine (ending of first row). This is again good though I disagree with him about mpolo and Madge having similar playstyle-characteristics (though townie points for mpolo are justified from his pov).
Overall leaning towards probable scum because imo as scum he'd be more likely to fake good points than making mistakes as town.

Evil George Washington: calls me scum because unfamiliarity with xkcd meta but he later makes the effort to understand it.
Evil George Washington wrote:No, this is in character for me. ... How is this different from how I usually open early game?
This feels a bit wine-y.
He seems not to have read some of my content (or does not care to remember it) in detail (e.g. wishes me good night when it's morning for me, asks how to ISO when this was the second post I made). Normally this would not bother me at all but when he spends half of his time trying to engage me it feels weird.
Otherwise has a wide range of interactions with lots of questioning and pushing, while not forgetting about giving his own opinion as well. Leaning Town but would love to see an explanation for the above.

Posting what I have because it's going slow as hell.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:33 pm UTC

I should probably post reads like that. :P.

I'll have some time to answer questions, but I've got a bunch of tests coming up, I'll be around, but not that much content.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:35 pm UTC

I'll post more later, but a heads up, I've noticed we don't use meta the same way you guys do. For us, Meta is more a measure of a player's ability, rather than just their modus operandi. For example, if anyone playing here from Dgames was playing the way Peaceful Whale was playing, we'd know that they know better, and therefore could only be playing that way for ulterior motives, and therefore lynch that person based off "meta". We don't go for "But I always lurk as town". If we push someone for something scummy, and their response is "but that's my town-meta", it raises a huge red flag, whether they played that way before or not. We normally don't care how you played previous games, we care why you're playing that way now. If you can't justify it, but can point to other games where you did the same, and that's your only justification, nothing else, then into the noose for you. We normally try to change up how we play all the time to avoid falling into the pitfalls of "this is how I play town/this is how I play scum". I've lurked as both, I've been active as both, I believe every player here has done that and played both roles different ways many times.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:47 pm UTC

With that said, I'm glad people are voting boomfrog, but a little surprised that no one is mentioning my point on him, because to me it seemed the most suspect. If there's something I'm missing here please let me know, I'm going to wait for Boomfrog to answer it (as he claimed he would) before I vote for him

Maven89 wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I agree with Sabrar after Sabrar posted his extra evidence. Frozenflame agreed with Sabrar before the extra evidence. When Frozenflame agreed, it was with no real reason and feels jumping on a wagony. Did that explain my seeming contradiction?


No. if you thought Sabrar was scummy for his push, why did you go along with it? Why not vote Sabar, or ask him about it? If Whale is scummy, then why would Frozenflame be scummy for jumping on his bandwagon? Scum jump on bandwagons for townies, not fellow mafia members. You can't hold the opinion that Whale is scum and Frozen is scum for wanting to lynch him.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:54 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Lol at that post. Madge is in the 'never lynch, no way, no sirree' category.
I'm actually a bit mad about BoomFrog for spelling out Madge's meta without serious reasons. Now I won't have the chance to use it ever again. Did my approach on this exact thing in Shakespeare teach you nothing?
You are trying to maximize your chance of winning all future games. I want to win this game but also make Madge a better player so my future games are more challenging. I was only coy about things in Shakespeare because I wanted to see who else would agree with me (and successfully identified you as town because of that.) But that tactic won't work since A) you already agreed, and B) the DGamers don't know Madge's meta.

Evil George Washington wrote:Active or inactive, scum is scum. We vote them and kill them. I think leaving it up to the mod can be lazy in some situations, like this one. If a person asked to be replaced and gave a reason to the town then I'd be fine waiting for a replacement. If we were to off a lurker I'd rather off Dark Horse over Red Ryu.
In my experience a player who post nothing the first day after being prodded would be replaced N1, so that is my expectation with Dark Horse. Since on smashboards apparently scum can lurk through several days I can totally understand why you'd still be for a Dark Horse lynch.
plytho wrote:I think it's kind of different here. People who don't show up for D1 tend to be replaced while we try to lynch scum that's actually playing.

I'm with you on lynching Dark Horse over Red Ryu if Dark Horse isn't replaced.
But that doesn't apply to you. You should expect Dark Horse to be replaced so why are you against a Red Ryu lynch? He has produced absolutely terrible content and shown little intent to scum hunt until he was threatened.

Evil George Washington wrote:Peaceful Whale - I think Peace Whale is putting his foot in his mouth far too many times to be a strong candidate for mafia.
FYI, as scum he put his foot in his mouth innumerable times and that was mostly how he got a pass. I'm not saying he is town this game, but don't take that as a sign of townyness. He is clearly acting with the pure motivation of, "try to avoid getting lynched", but he has so little experience with the game, that doesn't rule out misguided town. I'm with Mavin, I wouldn't want to lynch him D1.

Evil George Washington wrote:BoomFrog - Scum. He has Jimbob as a top scum read but after hopping off Dark Horse, he doesn’t vote Jimbob, ask him a question or make a conclusion on him. Gives me the feeling he doesn’t truly care about sorting, and is fine with offing which ever lurker he can get. His Not Mafia reasoning on MPOLO seems forced. I don't see how it seems like something an Indy would do, seems null.
Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about JimBob. Mpolo read includes meta knowledge, for example in Dark Tower, he (truthfully) claimed Guardian Angel when under pressure. Indy Mpolo tries to be townie but also doesn't engage with the game as much, so I stick by my read of him as possibly indy.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:57 pm UTC

Maven89 wrote:We don't go for "But I always lurk as town". If we push someone for something scummy, and their response is "but that's my town-meta", it raises a huge red flag, whether they played that way before or not. We normally don't care how you played previous games, we care why you're playing that way now. If you can't justify it, but can point to other games where you did the same, and that's your only justification, nothing else, then into the noose for you.
Definitely cultural difference. Here if a player is known to have a shitty D1 meta because they just can't get started then it's taken into account in all games and we don't force them to play the game as we want it to be played.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:14 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:To do: Explain my thinking carefully to Mavin.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:18 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Maven89 wrote:We don't go for "But I always lurk as town". If we push someone for something scummy, and their response is "but that's my town-meta", it raises a huge red flag, whether they played that way before or not. We normally don't care how you played previous games, we care why you're playing that way now. If you can't justify it, but can point to other games where you did the same, and that's your only justification, nothing else, then into the noose for you.
Definitely cultural difference. Here if a player is known to have a shitty D1 meta because they just can't get started then it's taken into account in all games and we don't force them to play the game as we want it to be played.


That is pretty close to how we do it, if we know a player has problems with the game we'll give them more of a pass, but we don't take it further than that.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:20 pm UTC

Maven89 wrote:With that said, I'm glad people are voting boomfrog, but a little surprised that no one is mentioning my point on him, because to me it seemed the most suspect. If there's something I'm missing here please let me know, I'm going to wait for Boomfrog to answer it (as he claimed he would) before I vote for him

Maven89 wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I agree with Sabrar after Sabrar posted his extra evidence. Frozenflame agreed with Sabrar before the extra evidence. When Frozenflame agreed, it was with no real reason and feels jumping on a wagony. Did that explain my seeming contradiction?


No. if you thought Sabrar was scummy for his push, why did you go along with it? Why not vote Sabar, or ask him about it? If Whale is scummy, then why would Frozenflame be scummy for jumping on his bandwagon? Scum jump on bandwagons for townies, not fellow mafia members. You can't hold the opinion that Whale is scum and Frozen is scum for wanting to lynch him.

Alright, for you and Sabrar, he's my thinking:

PW is new and easily spooked, I plan before the game even started that I would apply pressure to him early D1 to see how he reacted.
PW posts some junk and seems fairly similar to his last scum game - I find him somewhat scummy.
Sabrar says PW's joke read list is very scummy. - I disagree with him, but refrain from mentioning it because I want to finish applying pressure to PW before coming back to it.
FrozenFlame agrees with Sabrar - Also seems to be weak reasoning.
Sabrar explains his secret extra meta knowledge that justifies his reason to find PW scummy - I agree with him here and mentally give him townie points
I compose my "rollercoaster" post and apparently explain myself poorly. Sabrar is justified so gets townie points, FF is not justified and gets scummy points even though they both had similar opinions. Also, I certainly can hold the opinion that PW is scummy and FF is scummy for having a poor reason to find PW scummy. There are almost certainly multiple groups of scum.

P.S. I was in the middle of writing this when my daughter woke up. I was planning to write a reads list but that will have to wait until probably tomorrow.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:37 pm UTC

Noticed that I skipped Dark Horse because of no posts. Necessary action depends on what mod is planning to do about him.

@YOLOSWAG: will you let us know what mod-actions will be taken with lurkers and when?

FrozenFlame: lot of comments about setup-balance, basically only 2 posts with actual content. The first of which I like, good questions/observations though I would have liked a bit of explanation on "This is gross af" as was the case for the rest of the post. In the second his explanations are mostly in order however I don't like being okay with someone's lynch based on gut only, too many times has scum posted 'reads' like that in order to justify a false scum-read. Note to myself: reread Dark Tower to get a feel of him (possibly Monday). Currently slight townie-lean but going forward I hope he can avoid giving gut-reads.

Gamma Emerald: basically no content until his wall except an immediate push for an mpolo-lynch. Even his comments here add little to the actual game. Mentions wanting to read PW's older games, questions him but no follow-up. Role-fishing.
Gamma Emerald wrote:@plytho that's kinda how I play though, although I take issue with you saying the majority of my posts are off-topic. You don't know me well enough yet.
Nope, I agree with plytho here.
Definitely active-lurking type of scum-lean.

Red Ryu: not much to add here, also active-lurking though his posts at least are made in a consistent style which makes me believe EGW here. If this is a known issue by DGamers then I'm willing to put him further back among the lurkers.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:38 pm UTC

@BoomGrinch what was so townie about Whale's "I just want to in case I die" post?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:43 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:I think it's kind of different here. People who don't show up for D1 tend to be replaced while we try to lynch scum that's actually playing.

I'm with you on lynching Dark Horse over Red Ryu if Dark Horse isn't replaced.
But that doesn't apply to you. You should expect Dark Horse to be replaced so why are you against a Red Ryu lynch? He has produced absolutely terrible content and shown little intent to scum hunt until he was threatened.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here or you didn't understand me.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:48 pm UTC

Where I’m at: I still haven’t analyzed or responded to content at the bottom of page six onwards.

My usual method of playing is to read and analyze every post. This doesn’t mean I make notes on every post, but I copy-paste things that interest me into a word document, and make notes and follow up questions. Then once or twice a day I go through my notes and decide what is interesting/important, and use some of those notes to compose my wall-o-text game posts (and some notes make it to Gojoe, and some reside on my computer to this day). As noted by Evil George Washington in this post, my usual method has put me permanently behind in this game, and I’m not actively participating in the most current conversations. So I’m going to do my best to catch up today, and think about how I can alter my style to stay more current, at least until the player list becomes more manageable (if I live until D3 or D4!). Some bessie meta notes: I don’t consider myself a good scum hunter in that I don’t do good meta-type reads or have reliable gut instincts, you rarely see me vote for someone because they “feel” wrong. My reads are more detail oriented and usually focus on on inconsistencies and mistakes in player content, and in later days night action results and how it fits with current setup speculation. So analyzing every post is what works for me, because sometimes I see that sentence (or even word) that doesn’t quite look right, and that leads me to scum, and I’m worried that in taking a more impression-based approach I will miss that important detail. But with 20 players (most of them quite active) it’s adapt or be permanently behind.

More in a bit, I’ll make shorter posts if I need to try and get current.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:22 pm UTC

I say do that since we have a few days left until deadline, and having you active around this time is good for consolidation. Then I say revert for D2, because I value your ability to analyze posts. Good posts and good play takes time. There is no short cut to it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:35 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Leaning Town but would love to see an explanation for the above.


If a person opens saying that my play is different then usual, I then ask them how it is different. Reason I ask him is because in my last game I have done the same exact thing, and I'm not giving in game examples of my play here. I just ask him what is different about it to see why he would say that. Then if he responds I'd explain my thought process when posting so he can see what I was thinking in the current time. I know it'd be morning for you but when I say 'good night' I am saying good night to the thread since it's night for me. I remembered someone mentioning the ability to ISO but I wasn't going to dig for that, it would be faster for me to ask that while I'm re-reading. I engage you because I want to see what's in your head. I like to bounce ideas with town reads, and I like to work together with them. You feel weird, weird how? Do you think how I engage Zyth is weird? Because I think it's the same type of interaction.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:40 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:So, if your sure I'm scum, does my behavior towards mpolo imply he's scum as well?


Your alignment has no influence in how I read MPOLO's alignment. He is null individually. What's the purpose in you asking this question?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:09 pm UTC

Re Peaceful Whale’s reads here.

Peaceful Whale, I appreciate the effort you are making to try to learn the game, and to contribute. You’re doing a fine job of keeping up! I encourage you to keep posting, and ask questions if you have any.

Now the hard part. I have a few concerns about your list. Here’s what stands out to me the most.

Peaceful Whale wrote:moody7277. Moody always seems scummy to me, it may be because of my bias, but that's it. Other than that he's pretty townie.
First of all, your read of moody. As already pointed out by Sabrar here, you’ve only played one game with moody, where he was town and you were scum. But my initial reaction to this read was Hey WTF that this is my read of moody, in every game moody and I play together! Example from Refrigerator Mafia, which we all played:
bessie wrote:moody7277 – everything he has posted so far entirely fits with his meta, which I usually read as scummy, so he’s not deliberately trying to counter his meta and present himself as townie. Therefore I have a town lean on him.
This led me to thinking about where Peaceful Whale's read was coming from. And quite frankly, I don’t like your explanation here. So where are you getting this read? Possibly it was mentioned in scum chat, and you remembered it and used it when you made your reads list (note that this would point to one of the following players as a scum partner: bessie, BoomFrog, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, mpolo, Sabrar, SirGabriel, maybe heuristically_alone need to check his history with moody). Another possibility, you are recycling other players’ reads to make your own, either because you are newbie town overeager to contribute, or you are indie/scum and you don’t have the experience to fake your reads.

Next, this.
Peaceful Whale wrote:Bessie - I don't trust myself to read Bessie, the only thing I've noticed is she's slightly more quieter than usual, I feel like she is normally more active, it could be our different time zones, or she is just catching up with her reading. @Bessie, this isn't like last time when I mentioned roleblocker because I am that, I latterly just read the post were GlaDos was mentioned. And I thought that she was a suicide bomber.
Your read of me is odd for some of the same reasons pointed out previously with moody. What is “usual” for me? We have played one (complete) game together. This sounds like an observation by a player that has more history with me, and is another recycled read.

The other thing that interests me in that quote is that you mention a suicide bomber, and you claim you thought of suicide bomber because of this:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:GLaDOS is in this game. She is a passive "bomb" -- upon detonation she will kill whoever killed her. This cannot be prevented from bulletproof, protection from abilities, or redirects.

GLaDOS is not a suicide bomber. In our previous game, you asked questions about almost every role that was mentioned in the game. The roles you brought up where you didn’t ask for explanations were roleblocker and role cop (the scum powers), and that inconsistency was one factor that outed you as scum (see here and here for examples). This might be an honest mistake but there’s also a possibility that suicide bomber is your role.

My current dilemma with Peaceful Whale is whether or not it is acceptable (or even fair) to make allowances for his youth (13 yrs old) and newbieness in my evaluation. Some of the stuff he has posted wouldn’t have passed with other newbies (I wouldn’t have let LaserGuy or plytho get away with this level of scumminess in their early games, and hey, I didn’t!). But others really want to keep him in the game. Are they just kind souls (current feeling I get from BoomFrog’s treatment of Peaceful Whale)? Are they scum partners? Or do they have ulterior motives, like they want Peaceful Whale at endgame because he will be easy to manipulate or set up for a mislynch (this is the current feeling I get from plytho). So this is what I will be thinking about a lot in my player evaluations.

Peaceful Whale, I hope you take my wanting to treat you as I would treat other newbies without consideration for your youth as the high compliment that it is.

I know, way too much time spent on analyzing a single post, but this analysis will be important in many of my player reads. Point out any errors, I’m not taking the time I usually do to proofread. More in a bit.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:53 pm UTC

I've got a way to prove I'm town, who do we trust the most? Right now I'm think Bessie. (Bassicly who is the towniest, and who do we trust)

I'm worried about whoever I target will be killed by scum, and then my ability would be wasted.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:57 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:(I don't really like how you just told me to vote for boomfrog, I saw your reasoning, but I like to wait a little)


I told you to vote Boomfrog because otherwise you'd be voting for no one and I'd rather use your vote then you waste it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:03 pm UTC

Sorry Bessie, I thought GlaDos was suicide bomber, my fault. I am not a suicide bomber, or was an honest mistake and there's not much I can do to prove it. I'll try to be more helpful, I have a way of telling if someone is scum or not, which is why it's important for town to know I did not use my ability N0. I would suggest not giving me so much allowance, as it could cloud your judgement with other players. I am trying to learn by watching others.

Most of my reads are sliced up reads from other players. I mainly like comparing people's reads. What they notice as scummy and what they don't, who's in the top of their scum list and who's not, etc. I'm right now working a little post comparing them, so give me time.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:06 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Most of my reads are sliced up reads from other players. I mainly like comparing people's reads. What they notice as scummy and what they don't, who's in the top of their scum list and who's not, etc. I'm right now working a little post comparing them, so give me time.


List your reads again and state who you sliced it up from, and why. Then state if you trust that person or not, and why.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:10 pm UTC

That's a lot of work... okay here we go... give me a few minutes.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"


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