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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:52 am UTC

Yakuza is recruiting, not flip altering.

Possessor is also recruiting.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:54 am UTC

Oh right my bad. I for some reason thought the conversation was about recruiting. When I mentioned Yak, I meant she was recruited. Not flip altered.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:56 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Also to note that Plytho has a big problem with recruiting you. Then he used his action without confirming with myself or Laser. (He asked way too late)

Boom: What do you think of Plytho's opening of this day? Does town!plytho come off that way?

Asking late seems odd for town!plytho, I'd like to hear why he asked for confirmation so late. I was hoping to get to see plytho and Lasers hidden D3 and 4 content first hand so I could judge it for myself. Strongly wanting to recruit Bessie makes sense for mafia or town plytho but not other scum plytho.

His excited tone while puzzling out the flip sounds genuine and townie and I'm feeling much better about him on a gut level. Bessie being mafia throws a lot of my previous theorizing out the window. I still think putting me below Znirk on his D1 wagon analysis was unreasonable and possibly disingenuous.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:59 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Oh right my bad. I for some reason thought the conversation was about recruiting. When I mentioned Yak, I meant she was recruited. Not flip altered.

Ah, i'd misunderstood, I thought that was some weird delayed flip altering. How did they player die and get recruited at the same time?

Bessie being recruited and killed is a worrying possibility. It seems bastard to have the "Mafia" be a recruiting faction, but it would explain the low death count. Cult-mafia plus SK?
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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:05 am UTC

I feel bad that I didn't pay more attention to bessie before she died. There's so much interesting stuff in her posts that I completely glossed over. Like this one:

bessie wrote:bessie’s setup spec, refer to this post from D3.

bessie wrote: I’m still pondering the setup. I’ve been leaning toward more than one anti-town faction. Based on the flips, my current guess is one main mafia group with a kill, one anti-town group with a goal based wincon, and 2-3 independents.

Some things influencing my setup spec:

1. This was originally a 24 player setup which was modified for 20 players. I believe it could have started with multiple scum teams, and I have been pondering whether or not the teams were weakened or one team was cut out when the game was rebalanced.
2. My weak role seems like it could be part of an original intended role, and maybe something was cut out when the game was modified and rebalanced. My role is one of the things that guided me toward multiple smaller scum factions, rather than one large faction.
3. The insistence of some players that they can’t be scum because they’re not partners with moody.
4. Claims and flips have influenced my thinking, but not as much as the previous points.


bessie also made a point of highlighting players that mentioned only a single scum team later in the game, e.g. here:
bessie wrote:Note: Sabrar’s reads in this post assume one scum team, but other than that I don’t have any issues with his list, in that I can see how he arrived at all his reads.

bessie wrote:I like that Red Ryu at least considered the possibility of two scum teams when it seems that no one else but me is.

bessie wrote:Note that his (LaserGuy's) reads assume one scum team, see this.


I note that the post bessie highlights from Red Ryu is one where he also considers the possibility of two scum teams, one without a kill, which is an interesting mirror to bessie's own (informed) thoughts.

I'm not sure exactly what to make of this. Noting also that heury posted about two mafia at the start of the game, and moody posted similar thoughts before his death.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:06 am UTC

Overswarm said:
The Sorceress (FF8) – Mafia Sorceress

[​IMG]

Possess – Before the game begins, you may pick a player to possess. You may choose a new player each Night phase (the new choice will go through even if you are killed).

You will be removed from the game upon your death, either by lynch or NKill, (town will be notified that you left the game, your role and alignment will be stated openly) and they will be given your role. They will still be the same character name, but will lose their abilities to gain yours. Their win is your win. This will only work on town oriented players and they will not receive this ability, so it can only be used once.

Should both you and your choice die that Night or should your choice be a non-town player, your previously listed choice will be used until an acceptable candidate is reached.

It will fail if you target only non-town alignments or there are no choices left alive and there will be no new Sorceress, so choose wisely. The new Sorceress will know everything in your role PM, but Trevor Fitzroy will not know who she is unless she reveals herself to him.

Influence – Each Night, you may choose a player. That player will have to vote for whoever you specify and may not change their vote. Should that player not be voteable, your ability will fizzle.

Mesmerize – Each Night, you may choose two players. Player 1 will be told they were visited by Player 2.

Night Kill- Should Trevor Fitzroy die, you will be granted the ability to Night Kill once per Night.

Time Travel – Each Night, you may pick a Night phase in the future to use your action on. The action will not occur until that Night phase, but will occur even after your death if the ability goes through.

Safe Claims: Marty McFly (Back to the Future), The Lost Vikings (video game), Fry (Futurama)

Quick topic: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/p5qjCGQ8XPN

You are mafia partners with Nabe, Trevor Fitzroy.

Win Condition: You are the only one left or nothing can prevent this. While you have a mafia partner with Trevor Fitzory, you don’t want him around at the end. Find a way to take him out to win. Trevor will think you win condition is to win with him so use this to your advantage!

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:06 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Time Travellers Game

Time Travellers Roles

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:19 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Cult-mafia plus SK?

SK would have to be very strong in that case. Though moody claimed otherwise (and it sounds honest to me, especially with him being revealed Know-It-All).

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:21 am UTC

What happened with Kuz (Sorceress) is that he was lynched D1. He already picked July N0 due to her being a strong play regardless of alignment. She was recruited. You have the Role Pm above.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:24 am UTC

Wow, okay, just read Sabrar's links. The possessor going AWOL also explains the low death count. It could be like in superhero mafia, that one of the scum teams has a player specific kill instead of the whole team having a factional kill. That very neatly explains the lack of kills going on.

So most likely there are two scum teams, Bessie was actually mafia and PW didn't have a definitive result on her somehow.


Ninjad by EGW. Wow...

Win Condition: You are the only one left or nothing can prevent this. While you have a mafia partner with Trevor Fitzory, you don’t want him around at the end. Find a way to take him out to win. Trevor will think you win condition is to win with him so use this to your advantage!
The possibilities for bastardry are high...
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:24 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:What happened with Kuz (Sorceress) is that he was lynched D1. He already picked July N0 due to her being a strong play regardless of alignment. She was recruited. You have the Role Pm above.

And she was NKed because the partner didn't know?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:25 am UTC

No she was vigged lol.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:28 am UTC

It's possible that Moody and HA were a two man scum team like in TT, and Bessie was town D2, which would explain why PW may have actually had chat/confirmation of her alignment at that time, but afterwards, she might have been recruited upon Yolinda's death.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:32 am UTC

Yeah one shot possession seems a lot more sane than the one Sabrar linked.
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:46 am UTC

If EGW guessed correctly and bessie was Town until N3 then we shouldn't reevaulate her content up until that point. It's just her D4 thoughts that are tainted.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:38 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Cult-mafia plus SK?


SK would have to be very strong in that case. Though moody claimed otherwise (and it sounds honest to me, especially with him being revealed Know-It-All).


Sabrar, did the "Wraith" immunity ability include kills?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:40 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Sabrar, did the "Wraith" immunity ability include kills?
Yes, definitely.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:04 am UTC

Hmm...

It's been bothering me for awhile how strong the scum abilities we've seen appear to be compared to Town. Having small scum team with strong powers, a recruit, and no kill, and another with (hopefully) more middling powers and a kill might make a lot of sense in this setup.

Bad news is that even with a mafia kill last night, it's possible we may still be in MYLO. Though something like 12-3-2-1-1 where one townie could potentially join the mafia seems very rough... similar problem to what we ran into in Shakespeare mafia.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:04 am UTC

EBWOP: I guess maybe not as bad as Shakespeare since both mafia teams had a kill that game.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:01 am UTC

The point made by LaserGuy is precisely what occurred to me when reading through this -- the mafia powers we have seen are relatively strong and could be used to control the lynch without having a kill to back it up. The kill could even be a serial killer, who would be able to hide much more easily if we all think that there's one big killing mafia (since he won't be showing links to others). Or it could be a smaller second mafia…
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:10 am UTC

I think Bessie was probably "real" mafia, but I don't really have anything to base it on. I've come to realise my intuition with respect to this game is not very helpful (cf that even if everyone is telling the truth we have so very few investigative roles).

I'm busy working on that assignment, and to be honest I'll be likely working on it right up until deadline (it's due a few hours after deadline assuming my estimate is correct: 5pm GMT+8 on the 27th if you want to do the maths yourself). So unless I get a heck of a lot done tonight, I'll probably be relying on peoples' summaries for my vote today (sorry).

If someone could write up a list of what everyone was "meant" to do last night and what they actually did, that would be very helpful for me (I assume someone who keeps notes has such a list in their notes already?).

I like the idea that mafia has no kill and we've got an SK as well.

Given how we seem not to know anything, whose powers have we been able to "observe"? Mpolo's for sure, mine nobody will ever know about one way or the other, Red Ryu is being called into question. The problem is the claimed powers are basically all either useable as mafia or not verifiable (eg Red Ryu being a doctor vs being some sort of fake note sender).
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:13 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Though something like 12-3-2-1-1 where one townie could potentially join the mafia seems very rough...
Make it 13-3-2-1-1 (for 20 players) and it's still rough. Theoretically there are a couple of things that could help Town (scum killing the bomb, Deflection going towards scum, confirmed Vig-shot, any of the 2 claimed other Vig-s, town!LaserGuy's Judgement) but I still don't like abilities balancing out numbers.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:27 am UTC

BoomFrog: claims to have no abilities left, no action, no result
EGW: supposed to send message to someone in {LaserGuy, Madge, Ryu}. Claims to have sent it to LaserGuy (indicated in private chat as well). LaserGuy was presumably switched with Ryu by mpolo. Nobody claims to have received the message.
LaserGuy: claims to have no abilities left, no action, no result
Madge: presumably jailed, claims no action, no result
mpolo: supposed to switch Ryu with either LaserGuy or Madge or do nothing. Claims to have switched LaserGuy and Ryu.
plytho: supposed to invite BoomFrog to chat. Indicated in chat that he doesn't agree with the plan (though supposedly a bit late). Claims to have targeted bessie instead.
Ryu: supposed to protect either bessie or Sabrar. Claims to have protected Sabrar.
Sabrar: supposed not to have used ability. Claims to have used it anyway because of wording and no mod reply, targeting Madge. Claims to have received note saying Doc protected him.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:48 am UTC

No observable evidence of any claimed ability plus result directly contradicts another claim: BoomFrog
No observable evidence of any claimed ability: EGW, Madge
Ability semi mod-confirmed (it could leave fake notes behind) plus result directly contradicts another claim: Red Ryu
Ability almost certainly guaranteed to be confirmed (needs scum!LaserGuy to fake N1 plus somehow interfering with my message to Zen while I was immune to such): mpolo
Ability almost certainly guaranteed to be mod-confirmed (unless scum with EGW and LaserGuy): plytho
Mod-confirmed to be in the game but only evidence is Madge confirming to be jailed: Sabrar
Mod-confirmed ability: LaserGuy

However if one or more remaining scum have multiple abilities then we can only use the above as reference points and not as evidence.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:08 pm UTC

Oh I'm sorry I'm a dumb dumb.

I got a message directed to laser last night that was redirected to me think from EGW. Sorry I missed this on mobile given I was busy over the weekend.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:20 pm UTC

I don't have a lot of time today.

I thought I was pretty clear all through the night that I preferred to target bessie over BoomFrog because she was an objectively better target as she was 'confirmed town' and 'unlikely to be killed'. Apparently I wasn't clear enough? EGW's reasoning that BoomFrog wanted to chat more than bessie felt pretty weak.

ninja by Red. I'm annoyed that he missed that message after I explicitly asked if he had anything else to claim.

So now we basically have Red, LaserGuy and EGW confirming mpolo's targets and Red confirming EGW's message.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:38 pm UTC

Could mpolo still have switched bessie with someone? While one or more of {LaserGuy, Red Ryu, EGW} are covering for him?

mpolo + EGW: if EGW sent his message straight to Red everything still checks out

mpolo + Red: mpolo would know bessie wouldn't be protected and there'd be no need to switch her. They don't know where the message should end up or what the content could be.

mpolo + LaserGuy: doesn't explain why Red now claims the message arrived.

I think it's unlikely mpolo was involved in the kill, the only way that could be is in a team with EGW.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:01 pm UTC

I'll get into detail with the message if EGW is okay with me revealing the nit and gritty of it, again sorry I missed that PM on mobile setting up a new computer and car pooling for a Smash tournament.

I'm way more confident in Madge being mafia if it is one large team, but that Bessie flip only makes me more confident more so in that in this situation. where I would want to tunnel Madge til lynched.

If two teams, that asks the question if this was a buddy for later on or just to look good.

Given the single shots and really nothing seems to point to the latter so far I would say it is a buddy situation to keep Madge alive as long as Bessie could.

Madge needs to go unless someone can confirm the slot is more likely town. There is no attempt or effort to try and assist town in hunting or trying to find scum, no effort no attempt to change the perception on themselves outside of sitting on a terrible claim and spending a day phase if not almost 2 just talking in circles about what the treestump sort of role can do. People keep referring to meta and a town tell on day 1.

Ok first off that post from way earlier is not something that should ever clear a player forever, even if I disagree that the earlier post was a town tell I do not think anyone should defend that slot at this point.

Second Meta is an assisting tool to read someone, it is not someone you stick to forever and if this tell doesn't say anything about alignment one way or another, how does this clear the slot? I have quirks and odd playstyle stuff as town and scum, but both of these can easily apply to me as one or the other. Hell Nabe back on DGames with Smashboards always plays in a way to make his alignment as null as possible with some tells here and there. What about it here tells me about Madge's alignment being must be town, unless there is some super stark difference I cannot see why people are playing the meta point.

I do not like Boom or Laser either, but Madge/Frog should have been lynched yesterday instead of FF.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:08 pm UTC

vote red ryu

I have told you NUMEROUS TIMES to stop referring to me as a slot. I was polite. Now I'm being less polite.

My vote stays until you acknowledge that I do not want to be referred to as a slot and promise not to do it again.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:26 pm UTC

@Red, you should go into enough detail on the contents of the message that EGW can verify you received it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:32 pm UTC

Red, your reasoning isn't clear to me at all.

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:If two teams, that asks the question if this was a buddy for later on or just to look good.

Given the single shots and really nothing seems to point to the latter so far I would say it is a buddy situation to keep Madge alive as long as Bessie could.
Who was buddying who? Do you think one team or two teams? How do you eplain bessie dying despite you supposedly protecting her? How do you explain bessie dying if there's one team?

You do realise you're looking very suspicious here, right? You're the only one that knew who you were going to protect. But scum still managed to hit one of your protectees. How do you explain that?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:34 pm UTC

It occured to me that plytho's targetting bessie for "chat" could be a cover for sending a kill against her. Not that I have any real reason to suspect plytho more than anyone else…

Of course, we don't seem to have much on trackers/cops anyway, so scum!plytho wouldn't really have needed to fake it.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:43 pm UTC

I'm still trying to wrap my head around bessie being the kill target.

Evil George Washington wrote:
plytho wrote:Second question: why bessie? Why not target someone unprotected, like mpolo, EGW, BoomFrog or me?)


Possibly due to her semi town confirmation. Which requires two scum teams, or an SK. There's no other explanation, and if MPOLO was scum he would use that to his advantage. (scum but not with Bessie or didn't know she was scum)
Yeah, semi town confirmation is one thing, but towies with powers is another. If I was scum I'd have hit mpolo last night. He was unprotected with an annoying power. Or maybe EGW, the town leader. These are easily killed and town learns nothing new. Killing bessie requires scum to circumvent Red's protection, heavily implicating Red.

Hmm, is this a setup to get Red mislynched today?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:59 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I do not like Boom or Laser either, but Madge/Frog should have been lynched yesterday instead of FF.

What specifically do you not like about me or Laser? Why has your opinion on me not changed?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:00 pm UTC

Madge wrote:vote red ryu

I have told you NUMEROUS TIMES to stop referring to me as a slot. I was polite. Now I'm being less polite.

My vote stays until you acknowledge that I do not want to be referred to as a slot and promise not to do it again.


I am a slot, you are a slot we are all a slot in the game.

I refer to slot to remain gender neutral.

Btw who is scum?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I am a slot, you are a slot we are all a slot in the game.

I refer to slot to remain gender neutral.

Madge has explicitly asked to use female pronouns instead of slot, please do so.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:05 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Hmm, is this a setup to get Red mislynched today?

Scum had no way to know Red would miss claim the note. Scum strongman is possible.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:09 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:
Hmm, is this a setup to get Red mislynched today?

Scum had no way to know Red would miss claim the note. Scum strongman is possible.
Misclaiming the note isn't relevant I think (for my setup theory). Yeah, strongman or something roleblocky (although there's already a flipped scum roleblocker).

I'm still suspicious of Red but it doesn't seem strategically smart to kill one of his supposed protectees if he's scum.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:34 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Red, your reasoning isn't clear to me at all.

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:If two teams, that asks the question if this was a buddy for later on or just to look good.

Given the single shots and really nothing seems to point to the latter so far I would say it is a buddy situation to keep Madge alive as long as Bessie could.
Who was buddying who? Do you think one team or two teams? How do you eplain bessie dying despite you supposedly protecting her? How do you explain bessie dying if there's one team?

You do realise you're looking very suspicious here, right? You're the only one that knew who you were going to protect. But scum still managed to hit one of your protectees. How do you explain that?


Bessie was defending Madge most of the game and using meta as an excuse.

Leaning on one, but I am not throwing out two teams as impossible. Actually on reflection I need to think about this given actions, starting to think Two is a lot more likely given how actions turned out last night. If Bessie died and it wasn't a redirect, then that does point to the more likely situation that there is a second team. Since unless someone ability made this happen, why would bessie die if one scum team, this actually would point to two.

Mpolo had a redirect on me and I think Laser which is why I got the message. Me being alive makes perfect sense with mpolo, which is most likely why I was not killed last night.

I protect Sabrar because I flipped a coin and got Tails for Sabrar got the protect.

Above covers the question about two teams.

I don't see why I would be looked at given a driver role in the game.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:40 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:34 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I am a slot, you are a slot we are all a slot in the game.

I refer to slot to remain gender neutral.

Madge has explicitly asked to use female pronouns instead of slot, please do so.


Will do in future.


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