Going through full rereads, starting on Hari...Hari Seldon
Earlier, I read Hari Seldon as townie largely because I felt that his obsession with the "Squints at this" post was likely town-motivated. I've seen townies do this sort of thing before, and have done it myself. His tone in some of his posts, especially this one
feels very townie to me.
As I've noted earlier, I find Hari's D1 point assignment system to be much more arbitrary than his previous iteration in Hallowe'en (see, e.g. here
). While I can accept that he was trying to simplify his approach a bit in a newbie game, here he only selectively comments on certain players and not on others, which will naturally bias all of his observations. Just as a few examples, here
, he applies a penalty to me claiming that a townread on woof!BoomFrog cannot be justified, but does not apply a similar penalties to bessie, jimbob, or Sabrar, for townreading BoomFrog for this as well. flicky receives townie credit for his RVS vote, and is otherwise ignored in the scoring system entirely; bessie receives townie credit only for the secret meta read (more on this later), and is otherwise ignored. PW is ignored entirely. BoomFrog is mostly ignored. Hari likewise avoids analysing PW here
. Even though he comments on PW's BoomFrog ISO, in his later discussion with BoomFrog about his woof reads in the same, he doesn't mention PW at all. Hari comments on what he's trying to do with PW here
. Quoted in full:
Hari Seldon wrote:This is a very good observation and further leads me to think you are reading deeply. I am intentionally being more reserved in my reactions toward Peaceful Whale. I believe it was a mistake to press so hard on him early on in Halloween. I want to give him room to play. He was also targeted early on in Crossover, and became much easier to read later on when people had let up on him.
Retrospectively, this does not look great.
There's an interesting interaction between PW and Hari here
where PW asks Hari to explain his scoring system. As an aside, first I note that this is on Page 3, which Hari himself has suggested is where scum will typically ask their partners a non-trivial question. More interesting is what PW thinks about this compared to his read on Hari in Hallowe'en
, which is much more lucid:
Peaceful Whale wrote:His posting style is similar to boomfrog’s, I know boomfrog likes his math and graphs, (crossover). Also, I’d Hari a new person? I haven’t seen him anywhere but here. And the zero count forum.
It’s easy for him to hide behind his wall of text and math stuff. And becuase few people can understand all of it, it’s really easy for him to lead town. If this begins to happen, go back and reread his stuff, see if anything looks off. I know he put me as the scummiest, even though I’m town. I guess I just have a VERY scummy meta... oh well. So be careful, he’s actually my 3rd scummiest just becuase how easily he can trick town if he’s scum.
This isn't necessarily indicative, but I'm going to note that Hari's reads list here
has confirmed townies as, FMPOV, his top six scumreads, and gives quite generous townreads to Peaceful Whale, bessie, cemper, and flicky.
Hari makes his commentary on the "slip" business in the same post. It's interesting to note that he asks bessie/jimbob/somitomi for feedback on this, and while all of them indicate they feel PW's post was null (bessie less so than the others), none of the other players make the connection to Hallowe'en mafia that Hari was apparently interested in. Hari never comments on the fact that none of the other players he questioned on this drew this connection, but persists with his case anyway. I kind of feel that this is a point against bessie/Hari as a team as it seems to me that bessie ought to have known what Hari was wanting to get out of this.
There's also an aside to this that I can't quite make sense of. In Hari's analysis of the slip point here
in relation to Hallowe'en mafia, he's actually referring to the wrong part of Hallowe'en. In Hallowe'en, PW made a comment in one post, and immediately corrected it that only appeared to change the grammar
. This appears to be what Hari was referring to in the linked section, but the actual slip that I had assumed Hari was referring to, and that I commented on in Hallowe'en, was not to this grammar point at all, but rather a subsequent post
. I do not understand how Hari would get this wrong, and can't really read this one way or the other.
About the bessie meta read
. Here it is in full
I have been trying to figure out how to parse this in a way that actually makes sense to me. At the outset, HS says that bessie usually tunnels (I agree), and rarely makes a significant effort to sort her townreads (I agree). He then points to, in Secret Santa, where bessie ignores reading Sabrar, simply putting him as town and claiming to be "thinking about it". I do not see how this is alignment indicative, since Hari says immediately above that she doesn't really spend a lot of time sorting her townreads, which would be consistent with her simply putting Sabrar as town repeatedly. This doesn't look like a genuine tell to me, and I'm not sure I understand why Hari thinks it is one. There is another problem with this, namely that Hari is townreading bessie using this tell based on her content as of Page 4
. By the end of page four, bessie had posted three times, not including her confirmation post, so it does not seem to me that there is any way that Hari could be using this to read her since presumably something like this would require a pattern of behaviour. In his explanation of the read, he claims that he first noticed this tell on bessie on a post on page 11 of Secret Santa, and the supporting posts are on 12 and 13 (which, incidentally, also feel too close together to me to be really drawing the conclusions that he did), so townreading her for this on Page 4 feels extremely premature to me. I do not believe that this is a real read.
I think there is a plausible case for scum!Hari here. I feel bessie is most likely a partner, though I can see flicky as a possibility given the similar ways that Hari treated both players. cemper/MoA is awkward since Hari hasn't really interacted with him much to speak of. PoE says he's very likely scum, but I am not positive, particularly due to the townie aspects noted above, as well as his interaction with the PW wagon, where, for non-buddy flicky, it would be a deliberate bus without necessarily any hope of avoiding the lynch. Hari may well be ruthless enough to do this anyway, but I am far from certain.
Also, last, and probably least:
PW wrote:Hari Seldon I don’t think I’ve seen a lot of him in this thread.
*Squints at this*. Is this a slip?