Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Endgame - Apocalypse

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Suzaku
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Suzaku » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:34 pm UTC

“Coming out of warp - prepare for wind down procedures”

After two weeks in warp, the Ajax prepared to return to real space just outside the gravity well of Panax, where they were to rendezvous with Admiral Carter.

“Jump complete. Commencing warp wind down. Give me a sensor sweep and locate the Admiral’s fleet.”

“They’re not here, “ the sensor operator soon reported. “Wait one. This isn’t Panax; it’s the wrong class of star!”

A quick check of the navigation system revealed it to be true, but how had they ended up here? Someone must have entered the wrong coordinates before the jump.

The conning officer activated the ship communicator, “Captain to the bridge please.”

...

“Captain to the bridge, please”

When Suzaku failed to answer the hail, a few of the officers and men made their way to his cabin. Overriding the security lock to gain entry, they found the captain slumped over his desk, a knife protruding from his back.


Day one begins.

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to hammer.

Deadline is 00:00 on Monday 26 UTC.
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wam
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby wam » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:55 pm UTC

Vote Sabrar

I owe you for Secret Santa

So I have been thinking through the setup and have the following thoughts.

1) Nights benefit scum, the exact level of by how much depends on what powers town have and how strong they are.

2) Town’s lack of information is more pronounced than usual. As we don’t get lynch results immediately.

3) The comment above of “No comment” to alignment changing roles means we could have a cult. Thinking this over this game is more likely to have one as it is easier to balance – assuming a night recruit we can actually get ahead of them with multiple lynches.

4) With 13 I would expect an 9-1-3 setup or similar. Based on history and the few games I have played recently I would expect a reasonable amount of power roles.

5) Also I maybe reading too much into it but with the comment on bastadry I was wondering if there maybe odd elements of roles or varying sanities.

Based on the above, my suggestion is we lynch 1 or 2 (Max) today and then we review based on that. I feel anymore than that we could go on far to long blind without getting any actionable data.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Pregame

Postby freezeblade » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:15 am UTC

Hello everyone! Been a while since I played here, I see some names I recognize, and other that I don't. I've never played with Zenii before, but I will note that this pings me as too enthusiastic:
Zenii wrote:I confirm that I have received and read my role PM and that I am not a member of the mafia or whatever the anti town faction is called. Who knows? Not me, because I'm a good guy.
Along with Peaceful whale talking a lot of tin, anxiously awaiting game start. Although we're far too early for that to play even the tiniest bit towards a read.

Random thoughts before I sign off for the day: I too am worried about the "no comment" about alignment changing roles, I hate cults.

A 9-1-3 setup or similar sounds like a pretty good starting point from wam, I am figure closer to 8-2-3, with two indies (a survivor and possibly a lyncher) If there is a cult, I don't expect masons, but if there is no cult, masons I put at about a 30% chance.
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Vicarin
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:21 am UTC

Ok, setup thoughts:

- wam mostly makes sense, but for 2 we don't usually get the Lynch results immediately anyway, so that isn't any worse than usual.

- I've played Stellaris but wasn't actually aware that there were canon races with a story, so had to do some reading.

- I'd put the likelihood of a jester at almost 0, it's just way too easy to win as one in this setup. Also can't justify in flavour.

- On the other hand, I could justify survivor, but oh man it would be almost impossible to win because town can lynch a survivor claim without even slowing down. Any survivor in this would have to have some powers.

- Cult is definitely justifable in flavour and balancewise, and we had no definitive answer about it.

- SK is also possible for both reasons but I'd say cult is more likely just because this is a good game for cult to slot into. If anyone claims survivor, this is probably what they actually are.

- To compensate for the increased power of the town Lynch, either town roles are going to be substandard or scum roles are going to be buffed up compared to normal.

For lynch strategy, I'd definitely prefer at least 1 lynch D1 to give us something to go on, but then NL can be considered after that. As we can catch up on lynches we've skipped, NL is much less of an issue, but we do have less info to go on in the meantime, and possible cults need to be found.

I'd also consider the possibility of a pacifist or militaristic independent alien who needs either some NLs or many lynches in one day to win, but I'm not sure if they'd fit in the setup.

Ninja'd by freezeblade, lyncher is also a possibility but probably significantly easier than usual with all the possible lynches flying around. Not sure how likely it is.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Peaceful Whale » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:38 am UTC

Wow, it appears I actually did manage to kill the captain... ooops.

I don’t have a lot of time... even though I was very exited for the game to start. It’s bed time owner here...

I’ll poooosssssst more when I wake up... hopefully then they’re will be more content to analyze.
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Spoiler:
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Peaceful Whale » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:42 am UTC

Thoughts:
I don’t think there will be that many killing abilities on towns side. It’s already way easy for them to kill others. Though I can see killing people on anti town side. As Tis game may only have 1 - 3 days depending on how trigger happy we are when it comes to lynching.

Voting is a good thing, but just in case, we should use a Fake Vote or something, that way we can think things through clearly. I think scum will try and confuse town, marking them lynch and lynch, not giving them time to think through. So in order to combat this we should only is the real Vote when we really want someone to die, or it’s almost deadline.

I support dragging out the days as much as possible, let’s make use of these extended deadlines.

Also: we may have to stop ourselves from lynching, and let the day pass. Let power roles get stuff, and whoever dies in the night can give us a lot of information.
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Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Peaceful Whale
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Peaceful Whale » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:43 am UTC

Let’s not be trigger happy. That could be very bad.
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cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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LaserGuy
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:44 am UTC

Vote Zen

For scummy confirmation post.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:46 am UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Thoughts:
I don’t think there will be that many killing abilities on towns side. It’s already way easy for them to kill others. Though I can see killing people on anti town side. As Tis game may only have 1 - 3 days depending on how trigger happy we are when it comes to lynching.

Voting is a good thing, but just in case, we should use a Fake Vote or something, that way we can think things through clearly. I think scum will try and confuse town, marking them lynch and lynch, not giving them time to think through. So in order to combat this we should only is the real Vote when we really want someone to die, or it’s almost deadline.

I support dragging out the days as much as possible, let’s make use of these extended deadlines.

Also: we may have to stop ourselves from lynching, and let the day pass. Let power roles get stuff, and whoever dies in the night can give us a lot of information.


Strongly disagree with this. This game is majority lynch. Securing the necessary votes to get a lynch is going to mean people need to vote early and often or we're going to be scrambling at every deadline.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Zenii » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:48 am UTC

I'm assuming command.

Vote: Madge

serious vote

@Madge, what's the setup? How many scum are there?

So there's a conundrum here. It was suggested that we post less, but the best way to play this setup is to move quickly, which means we need to be active.

Just try to be concise and get to the point, I guess? Avoid pages of 1 on 1 back and forths a la EGW v Sabrar & Zen v plytho & bessie v plytho in x-over? All in favor?

@PW: Whatever your rank is, I'm promoting you to Lieutenant Commander. Those of us on this ship, we've become family. But we've been betrayed and we have to do what it takes to survive. We will be executing those we've called sisters and brothers toDay, and I'm going to need someone I can count on when things get tough.

By now you may be thinking, is this scum!Zen trying to manipulate me? The answer is no. It's just that you're obv town and I'm obv town, and we need some form of unity in this time of crisis.

@George, please change your ava. I'm all for team Kamina. It's not confusing to me, but it looks like it is for others. What do you think of Madge and bessie?

@bessie what do you think of Madge not having an inkling of strategy.

@Sabrar I'm pretty obv towny so far don't you think? With my stream of conscious way. Which side are you this time, I wonder.

Side Note: From an outside perspective, this would really look like me awkwardly interacting with my buddy.

That's all from me for now. @all: please vote Madge as quickly as possible so we can move on to the next execution.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Zenii » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:56 am UTC

I agree with Laser. No fake votes. We are executing 3 people today. No more, no less.

People we will not be executing: PW, Zenii, Wam

People we will be executing: Madge, Vicarin

High chance of being executed: bessie, Frezeblade

Ok I'm out for today. @Laser, George, PW join me on Madge will ya :)

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Peaceful Whale » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 am UTC

Ok... I guess I can sheep for a little a bit.
Sheeeeeeeeep.
Baaaaa baaaaaaaaa....
I won’t be on till tomorrow. I’ve stated up later than I though I would...
Vote Madge
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cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Peaceful Whale » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:35 am UTC

I have been convinced by laser to vote
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Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Vicarin
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:37 am UTC

PW, there's no way we can't drag out the days, seeing as a Lynch doesn't end the day and indeed extends the day. We'll have to get used to someone hammering sometime before deadline, because we don't miss out on conversation by lynching and we NEED a strict majority to lynch.

Also, I'd guess that town's PRs are significantly less powerful at night than scum's, so waiting around for results is probably a bad idea overall.

This is so far from a decent strategy that I'm gonna

Vote: Peaceful Whale

for the time being.

As far as I can tell, Zenii is just trying to get a rise out of people but hey what do I know.

Vote early, vote often.

Oh god just ninja'd by PW and this is just looking worse and worse. Randomly buddying with someone isn't great for town either!

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby wam » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:46 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:
- wam mostly makes sense, but for 2 we don't usually get the Lynch results immediately anyway, so that isn't any worse than usual.

-


I agree with most of what vicarin said other than the above. It is worse because whilst there is normally a delay we get the results prior to deciding the next lynch.

I disagree a lot with peaceful whale's initial post. Voting is always good for town and in this setup even more vital.

Zen

Spoiler:
Zenii wrote:I'm assuming command.

Vote: Madge

serious vote

@Madge, what's the setup? How many scum are there?

So there's a conundrum here. It was suggested that we post less, but the best way to play this setup is to move quickly, which means we need to be active.

Just try to be concise and get to the point, I guess? Avoid pages of 1 on 1 back and forths a la EGW v Sabrar & Zen v plytho & bessie v plytho in x-over? All in favor?

@PW: Whatever your rank is, I'm promoting you to Lieutenant Commander. Those of us on this ship, we've become family. But we've been betrayed and we have to do what it takes to survive. We will be executing those we've called sisters and brothers toDay, and I'm going to need someone I can count on when things get tough.

By now you may be thinking, is this scum!Zen trying to manipulate me? The answer is no. It's just that you're obv town and I'm obv town, and we need some form of unity in this time of crisis.

@George, please change your ava. I'm all for team Kamina. It's not confusing to me, but it looks like it is for others. What do you think of Madge and bessie?

@bessie what do you think of Madge not having an inkling of strategy.

@Sabrar I'm pretty obv towny so far don't you think? With my stream of conscious way. Which side are you this time, I wonder.

Side Note: From an outside perspective, this would really look like me awkwardly interacting with my buddy.

That's all from me for now. @all: please vote Madge as quickly as possible so we can move on to the next execution.

Just because you state that this is looking like buddying doesn't mean we will ignore it. Based on this I would say there is high likelihood they are linked in someway.

Spoiler:
Zenii wrote:I agree with Laser. No fake votes. We are executing 3 people today. No more, no less.

People we will not be executing: PW, Zenii, Wam

People we will be executing: Madge, Vicarin

High chance of being executed: bessie, Frezeblade

Ok I'm out for today. @Laser, George, PW join me on Madge will ya :)


Why 3? THis makes me very suspicous. If freeze is right (8-2-3) that could leave town in the minority going into D2. Even if I'm right (9-1-3), that could still leave town at LYLO day 2. Also early to be stating reads!

Also PW is being PW so far.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Zenii » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 am UTC

I'm back. I'm 100% fine with lynching Vic before Madge since he's pretty much confirmed scum at this point. But Madge is harder to lynch so I'm good with either. Sabrar can choose.

Why Vic is Scum:

1.
As we can catch up on lynches we've skipped, NL is much less of an issue, but we do have less info to go on in the meantime, and possible cults need to be found.

I'd also consider the possibility of a pacifist or militaristic independent alien who needs either some NLs or many lynches in one day to win, but I'm not sure if they'd fit in the setup.
What does this even mean even? I can't even parse it, but it's obviously coming from scum.

2. Push on PW is so forced.

3. He thinks I'm trying to get a rise, which means he thinks I'm town. No town caution/ignorance.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:57 am UTC

Assuming that you're not messing with me, most of the issue I have with NL normally is not being able to keep pace with the NK. However, if we NL and then double lynch the next day, it's the same number of deaths anyway.

Related to this, my point to wam was just that we could play this without lynching a 2nd person in a day ever, so our information situation is strictly better than normal.

The other paragraph is role speculation? I've seen a pacifist role on these fora before and there's literally pacifist aliens in Stellaris. Not a huge logical leap to imagine that role could be in a game with a powered up lynch. A militaristic lynch happy alien would just be the other side of the coin.

Don't know why you'd think that someone trying to get a rise out of someone would have to be town, care to explain Zenii?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Zenii » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:57 am UTC

@Wam: wrong. You assume we will be lynching town for some reason. Really weird mindset. I'm pretty confident at least 2 of the 3 lynches will be scum. And I'm 100% confident at least one of them will be, because Vic is scum. There's no point in lynching beyond 3 because if the game hasn't ended, it means we need to reevaluate based off flip info and/or start looking for third parties.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Pregame

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:03 am UTC

How convenient that the game starts right at the top of page 2!

freezeblade wrote:Hello everyone! Been a while since I played here, I see some names I recognize, and other that I don't. I've never played with Zenii before, but I will note that this pings me as too enthusiastic:
Zenii wrote:I confirm that I have received and read my role PM and that I am not a member of the mafia or whatever the anti town faction is called. Who knows? Not me, because I'm a good guy.


It pings me that this pings you.

Vote:freezeblade

91% joke vote
9% legit
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby wam » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:44 am UTC

@ zeni(on phone so being lazy and not quoting)

Did you miss the word could in There? Deva posted some stats that we used to hit scum 20% or so on day 1 lynches which has gone up to 40%. I will let someone else run the statistics on oir likelihood of htting scum in 3 day 1 lynches which you are proposing.

Also my other worry is confirmation bias. Whoever we lynch people will tend to back their reads which will lead to skewed analysis.

On a side note I believe in the usefulness of analysing vote patterns this only works if you know the flip of the lynched.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:53 am UTC

Oh yeah, we can also lynch lurkers with impunity without relying on modkills. So post! Lynch all lurkers is really easy to follow through here.

Lynching 3 people D1 is sufficiently crazy that I wonder if my wild guess of a lynch happy independent alien was correct.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:57 am UTC

wam wrote:Also my other worry is confirmation bias. Whoever we lynch people will tend to back their reads which will lead to skewed analysis.

Not 100% sure what you mean by confirmation bias. Are you saying you are worried that no matter what the lynched revealed roles are, that we will still remain biased to our current reads?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby wam » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:03 am UTC

No I mean for doing multiple lynches in a day. Someone going well I thought x was scum so we lynched them. Y seems to be linked so lets lynch them. Whilst x was actually town removing the basis for lynch two.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:30 am UTC

So maybe we don't lynch who we suspect as lynch partners. If we were to do multiple lynches in a day, we could search for possible lynch partners and lynch one from each partnership. That would get as a lot of information to work with. Not sure yet how I feel about doing a lot of lynches d1.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Pregame

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:23 am UTC

Madge wrote:So, what's a good strategy? Do we just kill until we run out of time? Because I am terrified. This is too much responsibility ans I'm not sure what the balance would be... Less night kills probably so that means more town overall, surely?

Sabrar, you must have an opinion?

Sheep me for an easy win!

Vote: freezeblade

Sabrar's foolproof planTM #1
Spoiler:
We have 13 players, so 9-3-Jester. That means we need to lynch 4 players D1:
1. freezeblade - obvious scum is obvious
2. LaserGuy - even if he's Town his reads will be so wrong that we simply can't allow him to live
3. George - a necessary sacrifice, too dangerous as scum
4. heuristically_alone - lynched me in my only indie-game, 'nuf said

N1 scum has 2 kills but they foolishly try to kill me and I get protected. Vig kills Jester.

D2 starts with 7 players alive, at worst 4-3. We should have clear reads on Madge, Vicarin and PW, meanwhile bessie and me are obv-townies. That gives us either a big enough townie-block to win on the spot or all 3 scum which is the same. 'Worst' case scenario is a 3-2 split in which case we lynch the 2 scum getting to 4-1, last scum can be determined by D1 connections to the other two. There is exactly 1 problem that could occur which is that even if Madge is town bessie will argue otherwise but I'm confident I can convince her this time.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:45 am UTC

So your d1 plan is to lynch the hardest players for you to read? Actually kind of makes sense. Sounds like aplan to heavily relient on you though, which is troublesome if you flip scum.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:47 am UTC

I think I prefer the not-completely-insane Sabrar from last game, can we have him back please?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby bessie » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:16 am UTC

Welcome back freezeblade, Evil George Washington, and Zenii! I was very excited to see all your names on the sign up list! heuristically_alone, maybe not so much. :x :P :lol:

I’ve played with everyone here before, so you all know that I don’t post at work. I expect to be especially busy with work for the next month (with long hours), so I won’t have as much time as usual, but I will at least try to read during the day so that I can use my time at night to write my posts.

Initial setup spec for a 13 player game is 9-3-1 or 8-3-1-1. I have never played lights out setup before so I don’t know how this works out with the balance.

I see there was an interesting amount of content posted in the confirmation phase. :P bessie's confirmation post analysis:

Peaceful Whale – made 10 posts in the confirmation phase. I would consider at least the last four content. I’m suspicious because there was a lot of discussion in the last game about my oddity for analyzing confirmation posts (no time to dig up references now but will if needed). I accused Peaceful Whale of copying my meta for analyzing confirmation posts, which he admitted doing (although I’m not quite clear if/why he made a conscious effort to do this because I only skimmed scum chat, I’ll take a better look if I need to). As the 10 posts referenced were made after Peaceful Whale received his role pm , I’m suspicious that he is making a conscious effort to break the rules, spam the thread, and do something that he knows will draw an attack from me.

Madge- didn’t read the OP and asked if we needed to confirm or just start, then made a post without waiting for an answer, then apologized, and after Sabrar quoted the OP for her she made a fourth post with her excuse for posting.

somitomi- his confirmation is not suspicious in that it contains no game content, but he must have known it would draw a reply from Peaceful Whale, so I'm noting it.

Zenii- posted content in the confirmation phase, but he is not a regular on this forum so I am noting it for now.

wam- replied to PW, no game content, but like somitomi he should have known it would draw a reply from Peaceful Whale. Noted.

Vicarin- his reply to Peaceful Whale contains game content.

So, I find Peaceful Whale suspicious for his posting in the confirmation phase and for the content of those posts, and Madge and Vicarin because their posts contained game content, and because their posts seem to me to interact with Peaceful Whale.

Vicarin wrote:- wam mostly makes sense, but for 2 we don't usually get the Lynch results immediately anyway, so that isn't any worse than usual.
Yes but we usually have the flip from the first lynch before we lynch a second time.

Peaceful Whale wrote: So in order to combat this we should only is the real Vote when we really want someone to die, or it’s almost deadline.
The days are short, and a majority is required to lynch, so coordinating a lynch close to deadline may be difficult, and I see LaserGuy said the same thing.

Zenii wrote:So there's a conundrum here. It was suggested that we post less, but the best way to play this setup is to move quickly, which means we need to be active.
The request to post less wasn’t meant to discourage content. There were some issues in the last game with content overload, and some players were having trouble keeping up (or in my case, playing the way I like to play, read/analyze every post, long detailed replies to the interesting ones, etc), add to that it was specifically supposed to be a newbie game, and as the newbies were mostly the ones struggling, I felt that the game was not fulfilling its main purpose. As this is not a newbie game, I don't have the same objections on principle, but that said I would appreciate, let's say... meaningful content. :)

Zenii wrote:@bessie what do you think of Madge not having an inkling of strategy.
I find it interesting, as Madge’s first post in her previous game was all strategy.

Vicarin wrote: Also, I'd guess that town's PRs are significantly less powerful at night than scum's, so waiting around for results is probably a bad idea overall.
Hmm, so you’ve mentioned twice already that you believe scum to be significantly more powered than town. What’s your setup spec breakdown?

Vicarin wrote: I think I prefer the not-completely-insane Sabrar from last game, can we have him back please?
And with which parts of foolproof plan #1 do you disagree?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:45 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote:- wam mostly makes sense, but for 2 we don't usually get the Lynch results immediately anyway, so that isn't any worse than usual.
Yes but we usually have the flip from the first lynch before we lynch a second time.


Yes, but we don't HAVE to lynch a second time on the same day. As I said before, we can always play this like a normal mafia game by always voting "Lights Out" after the first lynch, so our information is not any worse than usual, unless we choose it to be.

bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote: Also, I'd guess that town's PRs are significantly less powerful at night than scum's, so waiting around for results is probably a bad idea overall.
Hmm, so you’ve mentioned twice already that you believe scum to be significantly more powered than town. What’s your setup spec breakdown?


Beyond giving town worse versions of normal roles (single or two shot cop instead of cop for example), or giving mafia a bunch of roleblocks/strongmen/cops to work with, I'm not sure what the best way of balancing this sort of game would be. Adding in a cult or SK is really swingy but I'm guessing it's likely. Main thing I'm willing to rule out is anything resembling a normal Survivor, just because the poor bastard wouldn't be able to ever claim truthfully without dying. Oh, and Jester, for the opposite reason, where it's too easy to win unless someone gets paranoid about a Jesterbomb.

But I've already mentioned most of this up above, so I'm not sure what else you want from me? Specific numbers? I guess 8-3-1-1 could work.

bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote: I think I prefer the not-completely-insane Sabrar from last game, can we have him back please?
And with which parts of foolproof plan #1 do you disagree?


Mainly the "Lynch 4 players on D1 that he's randomly put up" part. Also calling you obv-town despite you not having posted yet. Also suggesting that Jester is likely in a game where town would just lynch the jester and keep rolling. But I don't really believe you're taking the plan seriously either :P

bessie - If you think that PW knows that you're going to attack him over his behavior, what do you think his motive is for doing it?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:53 am UTC

wam wrote:3) The comment above of “No comment” to alignment changing roles means we could have a cult. Thinking this over this game is more likely to have one as it is easier to balance – assuming a night recruit we can actually get ahead of them with multiple lynches.

freezeblade wrote:Random thoughts before I sign off for the day: I too am worried about the "no comment" about alignment changing roles, I hate cults.

Vicarin wrote:- Cult is definitely justifable in flavour and balancewise, and we had no definitive answer about it.
- SK is also possible for both reasons but I'd say cult is more likely just because this is a good game for cult to slot into. If anyone claims survivor, this is probably what they actually are.

...and possible cults need to be found.


Interesting that these people all have immediately started talking about cults in the context of the mod's no comment on alignment changing roles, without considering the possibility of other alternatives (traitors, etc.). If there is a cult, it would not surprise me at all if at least one of these players is in it. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching all three on policy D1 to see what kind of threat we're dealing with.

Zenii wrote:Ok I'm out for today. @Laser, George, PW join me on Madge will ya


I have Town on Madge at the moment. I don't want to lynch her. I'd support Vicarin though.

Vicarin wrote:Adding in a cult or SK is really swingy but I'm guessing it's likely.


Actually, I'm going to go ahead and put this here for now.

Vote: Vicarin

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:59 am UTC

Ok, hands up: who's actually played Stellaris here? I want to know who actually knows what is and isn't at least loosely justified in flavor.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:37 am UTC

Bessie: Why do you feel pre-game content is suspicious? Why don't you explain why it would be suspicious in your post. Why don't you vote?

Zen: I can agree that the no strategy in her first post is concerning, but i'm null on her and need more. I can't condemn her or clear her either way. How are you reading Wam?

Laser: Why are you town reading Madge?

Peaceful Whale: How are you reading Zen?

Vic: If you felt Zen was trying to get rises out of people, why would you state it out right to defeat the purpose of it?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:37 am UTC

We are only lynching one person at a time. We are also dragging the day out, then lynching. That way we cut time from getting too paranoid without actual information from lynches. (Since they come in the the next day) Just because we have the ability to lynch three times a day does not mean we should use that. If we somehow had confirmed scum, then we could allow a second lynch to gain more information and gain tempo. Otherwise, we keep it to one.

We are going to use the same method as last game, we are going to use the Bottom Four system. We all show our bottom four lynches we are comfortable with compromising on, we draft that into one chart via Sabrar, and then we'll campaign for our lynch from there. We will also keep our votes in play, no lollygagging. We don't have time to skip about. That's the plan.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:37 am UTC

I agree with Zen on Vic's Peaceful Whale push. Especially his 'Buddying with someone isn't great for town either!' The tone feels like he is trying to discredit PW over sort him out. Nothing else is pinging me too hard so I feel scum are probably in the remainder of [Freezeblade, Plytho, Somotomiomi, Madge].

Vote: Vic

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:44 am UTC

I wanted to wait for everyone to have some substantial content before giving serious reads but this is getting ridiculous.

Scum is heuristically_alone + freezeblade + 1 out of {George, Zen}. Switch LaserGuy with Zen in my previous list and we got a winner. Vicarin is so obv-town it hurts my eyes.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Vicarin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:52 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Vic: If you felt Zen was trying to get rises out of people, why would you state it out right to defeat the purpose of it?


Well:

a) Again, there's no reason why Zen can't be scum trying to do that, in which case, I'd really prefer not have him fabricating reasons to lynch people.

b) One of the people that he was doing it to was me. If he is town, I'd prefer him not waste his time and do something productive.

I do find it kind of hilarious how many votes I'm racking up now after the previous game.

Laserguy: If you want to come up with a list of alignment changing roles other than cults, I'd recommend not starting with traitors, seeing as they don't alignment change. But nice justification for pushing for 3 lynches on D1.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:54 am UTC

Sabrar, I'd like you to explain your reasoning for your scum team.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Pregame

Postby Madge » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:55 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Sabrar's foolproof planTM #1
Spoiler:
We have 13 players, so 9-3-Jester. That means we need to lynch 4 players D1:
1. freezeblade - obvious scum is obvious
2. LaserGuy - even if he's Town his reads will be so wrong that we simply can't allow him to live
3. George - a necessary sacrifice, too dangerous as scum
4. heuristically_alone - lynched me in my only indie-game, 'nuf said

N1 scum has 2 kills but they foolishly try to kill me and I get protected. Vig kills Jester.

D2 starts with 7 players alive, at worst 4-3. We should have clear reads on Madge, Vicarin and PW, meanwhile bessie and me are obv-townies. That gives us either a big enough townie-block to win on the spot or all 3 scum which is the same. 'Worst' case scenario is a 3-2 split in which case we lynch the 2 scum getting to 4-1, last scum can be determined by D1 connections to the other two. There is exactly 1 problem that could occur which is that even if Madge is town bessie will argue otherwise but I'm confident I can convince her this time.


:lol: too true!!!! Can I write fanfiction of this? When I'm done with my vampire romance novel I'll need something to occupy my time after all!

I notice you've excluded me, Vicarin and PW as jester possibilities?? Do you have non-indie reads on the three of us?

also what are you going to do when I roll scum??

bessie wrote:Madge- didn’t read the OP and asked if we needed to confirm or just start, then made a post without waiting for an answer, then apologized, and after Sabrar quoted the OP for her she made a fourth post with her excuse for posting.


what can i say... i'm playing to my meta!!!! :lol:

Okay continuing with my non-rule-reading meta, (really my "reading the rules once and never again" meta which gives me an oddly suspicious combination of well-remembered facts and completely forgotten ones), when timer runs out, there's no execution based on that? The execution is only based on hammer?

No strategy on lights out, never done it before. As people discuss I plan on having an opinion, don't worry

Here's a question: how many Nights do you think we'll have? I'm guessing... 2? So two townies down, though someone was referring to the idea that scum might get multiple kills (oh, that was sabrar in his foolproof plan - I wonder how seriously I should take it).

Vicarin wrote:Yes, but we don't HAVE to lynch a second time on the same day. As I said before, we can always play this like a normal mafia game by always voting "Lights Out" after the first lynch, so our information is not any worse than usual, unless we choose it to be.


... I think that the game is going to be rebalanced to account for the number of votekills town has; probably in powers rather than setup. I would not be surprised if votekilling once per day is bad strategy. I think cult is more likely than usual.

EGW is getting stuff down which I am all for. I don't have a bottom N yet because day's still young, sorry.

I reckon we should vote off 2 people today. Mostly because I feel like we should take advantage of the mechanic...
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:59 am UTC

Vic: What he is doing is productive. It can help others sort you. You stating that ruins it's purpose. What does the votes here have to do with the last game?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D1 - Assassination

Postby Sabrar » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:01 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar, I'd like you to explain your reasoning for your scum team.
I will.


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