Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Endgame - Apocalypse

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Suzaku
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Suzaku » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:11 pm UTC

After the abrupt end of the previous day, the crew woke early and gathered in the bridge.

Looking around, they realised that one of their number was no longer with them. They made their way to Peaceful Whale's quarters, and there found him, sitting calmly in a meditative pose, but clearly not breathing. Closer examination revealed that he had been shot, expertly and likely from close range.

Who could have been responsible for this, they could not say, but surely it was the same hand that had murdered the captain.
Nothing for it, then, but to continue the search.


No one was executed yesterday.

Peaceful Whale was killed during the night.

He was the Psi Ops Officer of the UNS Ajax, aligned with the UNE.
He had the ability, once per day, to seek guidance from the shroud as to whether an execution was just or otherwise.

D2 starts now, the deadline is in 4 days, so 23:00 on 2018/3/4 JST (=2018/3/4 14:00 UTC)


Day start flavour to follow when I have time.
Last edited by Suzaku on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:52 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:20 pm UTC

First thoughts: it does not look good for Zenii that he claimed day ends if he is put at L-3. Sounds an awful lot like he knew about the executive order ability that ended the day and was coordinating with mafia to have it used.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:21 pm UTC

1. Zen's ability is anti-town. Even stopping the lynch at L-1 would be miles better but there is no red warning sign about putting someone at L-3 so that can happen during normal game-flow (as demonstrated). Lynch is Town's biggest weapon, taking that away can be back-breaking.

2. The way he handled it is anti-town. Town!Zen would/should be constantly aware of the number of votes he has on him and would/should warn us well before he reaches the critical number. Zen posts after somitomi puts him at L-4 (helpfully just below unofficial votals from freezeblade to help him count). Still no sign that he cares about it. He waits until he has already reached L-3 to mention it at all.

3.
Zenii wrote:I seriously question the people that have been speculating about a cult, especially Madge (and Sabrar too if he has, don't feel like checking).
That would be a horrible role to put in this game. With these mechanics, it's possible they wouldn't even have a Night to recruit.
- Several players have commented on cult (as collected by LaserGuy here). Madge had exactly 1 throw-away line about it and I never mentioned cult at all (Madge's pre-game question obviously doesn't count). Zen doesn't care about actually reading content he just wants to have reasons for voting anyone.
- Zen is fully aware of at least 1 possible mechanic that would allow cult to recruit N1. Fake reasoning used for fake scum-hunting.

Vote: Zen

Could easily be cult himself.

@Zen: sorry dude but if you're Town you threw this game somewhat fiercely.

Addendum: it's interesting to see that it's h_a who activates the ability, most likely trying to act as distancing himself from Zen. Obviously this needs day-chat or the mod telling one scum the ability of the other in advance. Please note town!Zen's defense from Crossover for future reference, especially the following snippet: "I always hard town read my mates as scum".

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Peaceful Whale » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:29 pm UTC

Suzaku wrote:Once you die, you may no longer post content in this thread. You may post death flavour or a 'Bah! You killed me,' post that reveals no information.

-_-
Mewwwwwwwwww
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:34 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:First thoughts: it does not look good for Zenii that he claimed day ends if he is put at L-3. Sounds an awful lot like he knew about the executive order ability that ended the day and was coordinating with mafia to have it used.

This is not what happened. Zen was already at L-3 when he claimed, there was no need to coordinate anything after. Also what does the underlined even mean??? He claimed that he had the executive order ability, obviously he knew about it before.
I think this is h_a distancing himself from Zen but with bad logic.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:46 pm UTC

I didn't realize he was at L-3 when he claimed. I thought he was warning us not to put him at L-3. And I was thinking if he was mafia, he doesn't necessarily have to have executive order, but just know one of his buddies had it.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:57 pm UTC

- you could have reread the thread during the night to have a picture what happened
- flavor clearly indicated that it was his ability

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:01 pm UTC

@mod Were we meant to know from flavor that Zenii did the executive order?

I never make assumptions on anything from flavor. Just what is in bold from the mod.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:26 pm UTC

I also concluded Zen=likely scum. I'll post my analysis when I have more time later.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:37 pm UTC

vote:Zen

Might as well put this vote on now.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:09 pm UTC

Full analysis I did on sunday saved on laptop at home. Basically I agree on Zen but I think there is a 1% chance of it not being a single use power. Do we want to do other lynches first and Zen at the end of the day.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:18 pm UTC

wam wrote:Full analysis I did on sunday saved on laptop at home. Basically I agree on Zen but I think there is a 1% chance of it not being a single use power. Do we want to do other lynches first and Zen at the end of the day.


I really can't see how this power would be more than a one-shot, especially if we are going on the assumption that it's a scummy power (I see it this way). How would one ballance scum who are essentially unlynchable because they can skip straight to night without further discussion, where scum has a night kill?

One of our major advantages for light's out is the power to lynch more than once in a day, a power that shuts down this town-advantage is pretty damn scummy.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:24 pm UTC

I'm actually quite confused as to why you guys think I'm scum. My ability would be very bastardy to give scum.

From the people that quick lynched yesterday, Madge looks the worst. If you guys honestly don't see that's she's scum, I don't know what to say. Sabrar looks bad as well. I'm 70% sure they're buds. But I'm more sure Madge is scum. Vic looks good/towny.

Vote: Madge

@Laser @George @bessie

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:32 pm UTC

So this was the post where town!Zen should have declared that his ability is not one-shot to avoid another situation like yesterday. Since he didn't we can conclude that if it was multi-shot then he must be scum. That however is so unbalanced that I think we can safely ignore the possibility (or just ask the Vig after the game why s/he didn't shoot Zen N1?). So we can safely vote him up.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:41 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
@Zen: sorry dude but if you're Town you threw this game somewhat fiercely.

That's a pretty screwed up thing to say. Can't stand when people blame the lynchee for being lynched.

Anyway, you win, love. I don't have the time or energy to fight against my fellow town mates. And you're leading them well.

I'm sticking with Madge > Sabrar > Freezeblade as the scum team.

In hindsight I should have kept better track of the votes, but this game has been more work than fun. It's taken everything out off me just to keep up. God I suck.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:44 pm UTC

Should probably Lynch h.a if it comes down to it as well, since he's so heavily tied to Sabrar. I'd save him for last though just for if the game doesn't end before then.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:48 pm UTC

@Zen: suddenly you have no ultra-town read on h_a? I wonder what happened...

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 pm UTC

Perhaps you should Lynch him after me to find out.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 pm UTC

Don't worry, we will.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:53 pm UTC

Yeah I agree it would be bastardry.

vote zen
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby bessie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm UTC

Here’s the post I was writing when D1 ended:
Vicarin wrote:
bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote:Main thing I'm willing to rule out is anything resembling a normal Survivor, just because the poor bastard wouldn't be able to ever claim truthfully without dying. Oh, and Jester, for the opposite reason, where it's too easy to win unless someone gets paranoid about a Jesterbomb.
Why do you think a survivor would claim? Jester, yes, this would be the ideal game for a jester to claim.


Well, it's more that it's stupidly hard for them to survive unless they've been given a good fake claim (which is definitely possible), as we're probably going to have a mass claim at some point, and any independents will probably be strung up immediately after 'just in case'.
Again, why would a survivor claim survivor when as you observed it would most likely be a sure lynch? A survivor usually just has to survive to endgame. If there’s a mass claim they can claim vanilla town, or if they have a power they can claim town and their real power. And you keep focusing survivor and jester, indies that can win with town. I’m suspicious that you are indie, possibly one that does not win with town.

LaserGuy, is there a reason I’m not on your reads list? Did you forget about me me me, or is this supposed to be some kind of test?

Zenii wrote:@bessie
Joke confirmation posts in dgames is very common. The confirmation phase in general is pretty loose. If the mod strictly wants for everyone to confirm before any sort of info can be leaked, they will have each person confirm in their PM rather than the thread. I'm very sorry if I broke the rules. It wasn't my intention.
No, you misunderstand me. You didn’t break any rules, or if you did it’s up to Suzaku to decide anyway. The “breaking the rules” part was semi tongue-in-cheek (but only semi, in RL I’m a quality engineer and sometimes I get fixated on things like wording, sorry that you took that as an accusation). My problem is not with the confirmation posts in themselves, but when someone tries to disclaim pre-game content by saying “that doesn’t count, I wasn’t really playing yet”.

Zenii wrote: On another note, please explain how Peaceful Whale has at all attempted to draw attention to himself this game. Your read of him seems to me like putting the cart before the horse and judging him by past things rather than his play in this game.
You need to reread this post. I don’t know how I can be clearer. I think that if Peaceful Whale is scum, he does not trust himself not to slip, so he has decided to try to make extreme behavior (which may also be seen by some as scummy) his meta, so that it is read as “PW is just being PW” instead of “PW is acting scummy”.

Sabrar wrote: 2. I'm reading them differently because they are coming from 2 different players. I'm constantly amazed that personal meta means nothing for a lot of players.
This seems wrong to me, especially as you posted this earlier.
Sabrar wrote:- Zen doesn't use the same kind of 'tell' wrt George that he found suspicious wrt wam (ref 4th post). George also approaches the lynch cautiously, being afraid of mislynches. Zen should have noted that if he really cared about this.
So you post about everyone not using personal meta, but you scum read Zen when he does it?

Re Peaceful Whale’s post here.
Peaceful Whale wrote:is there value of keeping you mason chat secret? I’m trying to think of a reason...
Yes, and if you are a mason, this is the wrong time to claim.
Peaceful Whale wrote:I’m not going to be able to post more (probably) until tomorrow... I have unit finals this week. So I’m just posting what I have to keep the sharks at bay.
Peaceful Whale, school is important, more important than this game, and you should be studying instead of playing and not apologizing for it. I will not be attacking you for not posting tonight. But I will attack you over the content you have posted.

Third request:
bessie wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:Regarding Zennii and Sabrar...
I think they’re both insane, I was sheeeeeeping Zennie for content. Namely seeing how Madge would react (more on this later).

It’s now later, I am interested in your “more on this”.


freezeblade wrote: Seriously. This is exactly the problem I was talking about with this reasoning. Masons are not guaranteed to be the same alignment on these forums. You've been around here long enough to know that Madge, and if endgame comes up and people play "follow the masons" it can lead to a quick scum victory, and me ranting about how nobody listened to me, again.
freezeblade, sometimes it’s in bold in the pm. I think 3 of 4 (?memory) times I was mason, it was in bold in the pm that I knew my partner was town. And did you miss the post where I explained that a mason could just ask the mod if it is confirmed-town masons or not? And that I (and I presume others) have done so? And that we had received mod responses in bold that this was confirmed-town mason chat and not unconfirmed neighbor chat? If someone asks and they get “no comment” they should be suspicious, but there is such thing as confirmed-town masons on this forum.

Vicarin wrote:bessie - Only 3 posts so far, but all pretty chunky. I think reading too much into pregame content is not terribly useful, but wanting PW to stop messing around, especially after what happened last game, is very sensible.
Pre game content is content, it counts, scum sometimes slips in their pre game content, haven’t I explained this before, oh yes here. Read it again.

Peaceful Whale wrote:I really want to know what role LaserGuy has, what could cause such a disaster? Why if only other people have the role?!
Why are you not studying? And why are you role fishing?

Zenii wrote: Ranmaru's Game Winning D1 Reads
:lol:

Zenii"I don't feel a genuine spirit coming from bessie's PW read. She assuming he is scum and then explaining his actions through that lens. It does not make sense that scum!PW would intentionally want to be scum read by bessie. ] [/quote]Already explained. I think it was an attempt to be unreadable.

[quote="Zenii wrote:
I also completely disagree with her logic for scum reading pregame posts. Her two assumptions are 1. Scum are more likely to "break rules" than Town. and 2. People don't think that pregame posts should be taken into account. There is no evidence for either of these. No one has suggested that the confirmation posts be ignored. In fact, the opposite has been suggest quite a few times.
Perhaps, but I posted the part about my annoyance with some considering pre-game posts not counting, and gave a past example (Wheel of Time 2) before you and George chimed in on it, so why are you using later evidence against something I said earlier? I’m starting to be suspicious that you keep “misunderstanding” me when I have tried to make my position clear.

Madge wrote:Zennii seems not to take into account meta at all, so anything said has a grain of salt IMO. :roll:
Having a problem because there’s someone out there who won’t just give your scummy behavior a pass for meta reasons?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:00 pm UTC

No you won't. Town is going to argue that we should just Lynch me only today. You will reluctantly agree. Then my flip tomorrow will absolve you of your buddy read on h.a.

It's crazy that you can be scum so openly and still have people follow you. At a point like this though, it's like you either see it or you don't.

Ok gotta go. Won't have time today to be back today. Good luck guys! I love you all, even though you betrayed me!!

(I was there First Officer btw, hence my "I'm assuming command" crumb)

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby bessie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:01 pm UTC

Re Zen’s power, I don’t think Zen is telling the entire truth about his power. I don't think Suzaku would have given Zen the power with the mechanic that Zen claimed, it requires too much micromodding. My guess is that Zen just fulfilled a condition, like having x votes or something, then pm'd Suzaku to activate day end.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:02 pm UTC

bessie wrote:So you post about everyone not using personal meta, but you scum read Zen when he does it?
I don't think that was a personal meta used by Zen. It's that simple.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:06 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:No you won't. Town is going to argue that we should just Lynch me only today. You will reluctantly agree. Then my flip tomorrow will absolve you of your buddy read on h.a.
How well you know me... :roll:

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby bessie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:07 pm UTC

Fixing a quote from my previous post:

Zenii wrote:I don't feel a genuine spirit coming from bessie's PW read. She assuming he is scum and then explaining his actions through that lens. It does not make sense that scum!PW would intentionally want to be scum read by bessie. ]
Already explained. I think it was an attempt to be unreadable.

Zenii wrote:I also completely disagree with her logic for scum reading pregame posts. Her two assumptions are 1. Scum are more likely to "break rules" than Town. and 2. People don't think that pregame posts should be taken into account. There is no evidence for either of these. No one has suggested that the confirmation posts be ignored. In fact, the opposite has been suggest quite a few times.
Perhaps, but I posted the part about my annoyance with some considering pre-game posts not counting, and gave a past example (Wheel of Time 2) before you and George chimed in on it, so why are you using later evidence against something I said earlier? I’m starting to be suspicious that you keep “misunderstanding” me when I have tried to make my position clear.

I'm leaving for work, will respond to today's content when I get home.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:12 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Re Zen’s power, I don’t think Zen is telling the entire truth about his power. I don't think Suzaku would have given Zen the power with the mechanic that Zen claimed, it requires too much micromodding. My guess is that Zen just fulfilled a condition, like having x votes or something, then pm'd Suzaku to activate day end.

That's correct. I set the condition to activate if I reached L-3; or if PW or George reached L-1.

I would have pushed it to L-1 had I been paying more attention, but i was at work and working on my read post when h.a spontaneously voted for me. That's my fault, sorry. Didn't really think the numbers through or that people would actually listen to Sabrar for the love of god xD.

bessie please unite with George and Laser and win. :praying:

Ok bye for real.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:38 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:Perhaps you should Lynch him after me to find out.


Zenii wrote:No you won't. Town is going to argue that we should just Lynch me only today. You will reluctantly agree. Then my flip tomorrow will absolve you of your buddy read on h.a.


He's trying to play off as scum hoping that this reverse psychology makes you doubt lynching me, but come on it'd be so stupid for scum to do this if I were mafia as well because of course who wouldn't gonahead and lynch both of us?

wam wrote:Full analysis I did on sunday saved on laptop at home. Basically I agree on Zen but I think there is a 1% chance of it not being a single use power. Do we want to do other lynches first and Zen at the end of the day.


This pings me as a scum partner with Zen. Being hesistant and waiting to see what town wants to do, yet trying to appear like he's being pro-active. Also, if we plan on lynching Zen, why it the world would we wait to lynxh others first and save Zen for last?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:40 pm UTC

Here's what I wrote friday after finding out the day had ended:
Sabrar in his last post.

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Because I'm eliminating 2 suspects at the same time while you only eliminate 1.
I'm also eliminating 2 suspects from the pov of the rest of the town. Staying at the concrete example, if Town didn't suspect Vicarin at all then we could simply lynch Zen and be done with it.
This is the reasoning I find suspicious. Looking at the pov of the rest of town makes more sense as scum than as town. It made me feel like you were scum trying to please the two ‘factions’ of town by offering up Vicarin for Zen.

LaserGuy wrote:plytho:
plytho's content is very light this game. I haven't really noticed him at all, which pings me since he's normally much more, um, involved. Leaves me wondering if he's a little self-conscious about being lynched and isn't putting himself out there.

I don't understand what he is reading into Sabrar vs. heury. Factually, I agree with his assessment of what happened, but I don't understand how that translates into them being scum.


I feel like I usually start pretty slow D1(maybe I’m slowing down?).

I’m reading Sabrar and Heury as scummy from that interaction because they come across as performative and they’re not paying attention to what the other is posting. Sabrar felt like he really wanted to attack someone for a response on his opening post and took the first opportunity to jump on heury without paying proper attention to heury’s point. Whereas heury seemed overly defensive over a minor thing.

Zenii wrote:@Plytho:

It's pretty suspicious to me that you understand the value of multi-execution, but are in favor of the inverted-pyramid strategy. I hope my post has convinced you otherwise.

I’m not favoring inverted pyramid. My choice is a delayed pyramid. Which is what we’re getting now thanks to your power/inattentiveness. I wanted to use D1 to get a base source of information (votes, flips) and use that to start a pyramid D2.

Now we’ll have one flip (probably) and some scattered votes so the base source info won’t be great but I’m all for lynching 3 people D2 based on whatever info we’ve gained now.

Getting a little frustrated with FreezeBlade’s mason explanations and mostly people not paying attention to what he said the first time. It’s a semantics discussion and it was clear from freezeblade’s first explanation where the confusion came from. If we have masons in the game they’ll have figured out whether or not they’re confirmed right after FreezeBlade’s post.

If jimbob was playing he’d know the roles of about 4 people by now.

LaserGuy’s claim feels pretty townie. Not like a scum play.

I don’t think scum have daychat. 48h nights are useful/necessary when you have nightchat but I feel it’s too much for daychat.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:41 pm UTC

Here's my flip flopping thoughts on Zen (also friday, except for the last flop):

Zen’s claim: so weird.

What we know: the day ended early, the power is called ‘executive order’ it’s extremely likely it’s Zen’s power.

Zen’s claim: if he’s at l-3 D1 (4 votes) the day ends.

He claimed this when he’s actually already at l-3.

Showing that, despite votes on him being supposedly quite dangerous, he wasn’t paying any attention to them.

He keeps working on his reads post (posted around 3 hours after his claim).

After that, Sabrar points out l-3 has been hit and there have been no more posts from Zen between that and days end.

A couple of possibilities:

The power could be passive or active.
The power could be one-shot or multi-shot.

If it’s multi-shot we can test it, just do it again after we’re finished lynching D2. Multi-shot implies town because we can’t beat unlynchable scum. (whether it’s passive or active)

If it’s one shot it’s a different story.
Passive: if it’s actually vote-triggered I’m still inclined to think it’s a town power. Because being unable to lynch scum, even once, is very harsh on town.

Active: this is the scum-scenario: Zen has a one-shot executive order power that allows him to end the day (maybe he needs those votes to do so, maybe not) and made up the fact that it’s passively triggered to make it look more townie?

The annoying thing about all this is the inattentiveness. I can’t imagine having that power and not carefully tracking my votes. But it’s just as weird to invent such a power without taking note of the actual state of the votes. Unless all of that is part of the misdirection??

Ugh, Zen really should have claimed this much earlier.

I’m getting more inclined towards scum trying to save their ass with a fake story than town having this power and not paying attention to the votes. Resulting in a scramble after his mistake is pointed out and triggering his executive order.


Blegh, I was writing up a Gojoe post about changing my mind from town!Zen to scum!Zen and I’ve changed back while writing it…

Because: It doesn’t make sense for scum!Zen to use such a power now. If he can executive order at any point in the game, D1 seems like the worst. It’s a power that can win scum the game if they’re one short of the majority. Using it now would be terrible play from scum. Especially since Zen’s lynch was far from unavoidable.

Ok, so a couple of days later I find myself changing my mind again. “Executive order” does not sound like a passive power at all.

If it’s repeatable, Zen is town. If it’s not Zen is probably scum that messed up trying to find a clever way to use his power.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:42 pm UTC

O yea one more thing! I'm assuming since so many people think there is a cult, you guys have some info that I don't. But in case there isn't, there could be a role called a Marker. They can Mark a player during the dedicated phase (day or night). If at any point in the game, all living players are marked, the Marker wins and the game ends. Players don't know they are marked, do be weary of that.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:46 pm UTC

@Zen: please explain exactly what your power does and why you used it the way you did, show your thought process.

Why, when you wanted to lynch 3 people D1, did you take the risk that resulted in us not lynching anyone?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:48 pm UTC

@Zen: you claim to have sent a pm to Suzaku detailing the conditions when your power would be activated. Based on the timestamp of your pm between which 2 in-game posts was it sent? Did you also have to send him a pm telling him that the condition was fulfilled and you would like to activate your power? If yes between which 2 in-game posts was this second pm sent?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

wam wrote:Full analysis I did on sunday saved on laptop at home. Basically I agree on Zen but I think there is a 1% chance of it not being a single use power. Do we want to do other lynches first and Zen at the end of the day.


This pings me as a scum partner with Zen. Being hesistant and waiting to see what town wants to do, yet trying to appear like he's being pro-active. Also, if we plan on lynching Zen, why it the world would we wait to lynxh others first and save Zen for last?[/quote]

Nice way to completely mis represent my post. We would do Zen last if his power was not a 1 shot. Or do you want another day to end without a lynch. Ps having had others post that they thought it would be highly bastardry I have already voted Zen...
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:00 pm UTC

Also I reverse my read of Wam and George. I don't have time to think about it further, but i think Wam genuinely thinks I am a cultist. And if there is a 3rd party, I can't trust my read of George. I don't know how he would play as Indy. So don't take my previous read as an endorsement. Doubt he's cultist though cause he would have recruited me. Then again, bessie's an obvious cult target.

Definitely follow my scum reads though!! in the order i specified: Madge, Sabrar (honestly doesn't matter which of them first) >> freeze/h.a

Sorry whoever addressed me. I don't want to waste the little time I have explaining myself.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:02 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:First thoughts: it does not look good for Zenii that he claimed day ends if he is put at L-3. Sounds an awful lot like he knew about the executive order ability that ended the day and was coordinating with mafia to have it used.


This reads like a scumclaim. There are way too many assumptions packed in here that don't make sense coming from Town. scum!heury did a similar thing in bin Chicken mafia here.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:08 pm UTC

I'm with plytho here on the scum/town breakdown of Zenii's supposed power, however I think that the chance of this being a repeatable occurrence I put at lower than 10%

The reasoning for this may be a bit meta, I just don't see Suzaku creating a power that they have to continually micromanage. I find it much more likely that this was a one-shot day power, which Zenii worked with Suzaku on the "conditions" much like how we hedge night actions on short(or no)-night games (such as when we message the mod "if [player1] gets lynched today, investigate [player2], if [player2] is lynched, investigate [player3]).

Either way, I think that the power to end the current day at will is pretty scummy, as daytime discussion is the realm of town, producing content to analyze, shutting down conversation to get to the night actions favors scum in general, I think.

vote: Zenii

Unofficial votal:
Zenii (4) - Sabrar, h_a, wam, Freezeblade
Madge (1) - Zenii
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:16 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Spoiler:
1. Zen's ability is anti-town. Even stopping the lynch at L-1 would be miles better but there is no red warning sign about putting someone at L-3 so that can happen during normal game-flow (as demonstrated). Lynch is Town's biggest weapon, taking that away can be back-breaking.

2. The way he handled it is anti-town. Town!Zen would/should be constantly aware of the number of votes he has on him and would/should warn us well before he reaches the critical number. Zen posts after somitomi puts him at L-4 (helpfully just below unofficial votals from freezeblade to help him count). Still no sign that he cares about it. He waits until he has already reached L-3 to mention it at all.

3.
Zenii wrote:I seriously question the people that have been speculating about a cult, especially Madge (and Sabrar too if he has, don't feel like checking).
That would be a horrible role to put in this game. With these mechanics, it's possible they wouldn't even have a Night to recruit.
- Several players have commented on cult (as collected by LaserGuy here). Madge had exactly 1 throw-away line about it and I never mentioned cult at all (Madge's pre-game question obviously doesn't count). Zen doesn't care about actually reading content he just wants to have reasons for voting anyone.
- Zen is fully aware of at least 1 possible mechanic that would allow cult to recruit N1. Fake reasoning used for fake scum-hunting.

Vote: Zen

Could easily be cult himself.

@Zen: sorry dude but if you're Town you threw this game somewhat fiercely.

Addendum: it's interesting to see that it's h_a who activates the ability, most likely trying to act as distancing himself from Zen. Obviously this needs day-chat or the mod telling one scum the ability of the other in advance. Please note town!Zen's defense from Crossover for future reference, especially the following snippet: "I always hard town read my mates as scum".


I agree with a lot of this. I was thinking this makes a lot of sense as a cult leader/SK sort of power.

@Zen: Why didn't you claim your ability earlier in the game? You should full claim at this point.

heuristically_alone wrote:vote:Zen

Might as well put this vote on now.


Hmm...

bessie wrote:LaserGuy, is there a reason I’m not on your reads list? Did you forget about me me me, or is this supposed to be some kind of test?


I noticed this overnight. No, sorry, I just forgot to include you.

heuristically_alone wrote:He's trying to play off as scum hoping that this reverse psychology makes you doubt lynching me, but come on it'd be so stupid for scum to do this if I were mafia as well because of course who wouldn't gonahead and lynch both of us?


So much wine.

Vote: heury

Zen is already at L-3, so if his ability is multi-shot, day is over.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:26 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:Sorry whoever addressed me. I don't want to waste the little time I have explaining myself.
So you're not interested in convincing us you're town?

Btw, I'm definitely into lynching three people today.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:26 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@Zen: please explain exactly what your power does and why you used it the way you did, show your thought process.

Why, when you wanted to lynch 3 people D1, did you take the risk that resulted in us not lynching anyone?

I wanted to lynch scum, not townies.

My role is generally referred to as a Governor. They have the ability to override a lynch. This is generally a Town role and has been used many times. I'm sure it's possible to make a set up with a scum version, but I think that would be bastardy.

My role is a slight variant. I have to stop the lynch before it happens, not after. My goal was to round up as many strong town reads as possible and create a safety net around them using the conditionals. Basically suzaku said i can provide conditions in which my ability would be activated. I set my ability to be activated if I was going to be lynched and planned to add town reads as they came. That's why I made that intro post about obv townies needing to unite. I only got to PW and George before the day ended. Would have added Laser as well.


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