Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Endgame - Apocalypse

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Madge
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:11 pm UTC

I only do reads under duress, so here's my pathetic reads. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just showing people where my head is at:

Town:
Laserguy
Freezeblade
sabrar

Scum:
Zenii
plytho
Vicarin
Somitomi

I can't read:
Bessie
wam

*note that town/scum is really neutral±Ɛ

(they are in order from most {town,scum,unreadable} to least)

Also, because the game is moving so dang fast, I'm not able to read things as closely as I'd like - so I probably missed someone's ironclad claim, so if I did I'd be glad to be corrected.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby bessie » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:42 am UTC

Reads, very little proof reading or organization. I pretty much just sorted by author and did the people with the least amount of content first. As I’ve been working on this for two days already, I don’t want to delay posting any longer. And I tried to give a read on everyone, not just my scum reads. Hmm.

freezeblade
Overall level of content had been light but consistent with his usual level. I think he let the mason discussion occupy too much of his time on D1 it’s the only topic he discussed in his final four posts, but of course he had no way of knowing that D1 was going to end early. He did have other content, but more observations than reads or analysis. His D2 content starts off stronger and goes right for his opinions on Zen’s power use, he’s posting opinions on D2, but only on a few players. However, he did provide a town-scum list here. I’m not sure what to make of his claim that he blocked Madge. If he’s town his reason for blocking Madge is believable, if he’s scum he could have still blocked her, but then why claim it unless he was afraid he was seen. Could use some more content from him.

LaserGuy
I had an early concern that LaserGuy was going to be relying too heavily on the flavor for his reads and analysis. His style has changed a bit lately, his early game was a lot of poking people and at times he’s a bit cryptic, and I did think that he intentionally left me off of his D1 reads list here to see if I would notice. I have agreed with most of his D2 content. He’s noted that he and I aren’t usually on the same page, which is true. But in this game I like his content, and I like his methodical approach even when I don’t agree with him.

Madge
I thought it was a little suspicious that Madge didn’t do any early setup/strategy discussion, later using as an excuse she hadn’t played lights out. I also thought it was odd she seemed to be subtlety sheeping Sabrar in her first post where she asks him his strategy plan and later when she asks him why “we” are voting for Zenii (I have already point out both these things previously, see here). If she’s town her vig claim is reasonable, in that I can believe she would have targeted Zen. But I question that she didn’t ask right away if her kill was used up or still available, and I’m suspicious of her vote on heury because she was town reading him. Re Madge’s breadcrumbing, already discussed, thinking about it.

plytho
I thought plytho was quite reserved on D1, and he flipped a lot on his lynch strategy.He cleared it up on D2 that he favored multiple lynches after D1. On D2 he starts out focused on Sabrar/heury and Zen (possibly because he has some information on heury’s and Zen’s alignments). There’a a lot in his D2 content, I haven’t previously had much to say about him because nothing’s pinged me as suspicious, and there hasn’t been much I disagree with, or if I do disagree I follow his reasoning.

Sabrar
Some things I had in my D1 notes , and some other things I noted upon reread.
Sabrar wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar, I'd like you to explain your reasoning for your scum team.

freezeblade: I read this as fluff, posting only for the sake of posting, plus being wishy washy about PW's eagerness. I'm least comfortable with this read however.
heuristically_alone: This is a forced reaction, taking me way too seriously while in the meantime not paying close attention.
Why did Sabrar feel the need to justify these reads? He distanced himself from these reads later when he claimed he wrote them before the game even started, see here.
Sabrar wrote:I wrote up my intro post last Thursday and haven't changed a single character since (except adding the quote from Madge since it provided a great lead-in).

See also this.
Sabrar wrote:Sooo. Let's look at my intro post. The original idea was to have a bit of fun and maybe, just maybe pick up a tell or two based on the reactions. I never expected this much to work with as it was clear in my mind that it would be dismissed for the joke it was intended to be. How in hell could anyone take that seriously as a whole??? That boggles my mind.
How in hell could you expect everyone to take it as 100% joke, that boggles my mind, especially after you gave serious justification (see response to EGW above).

I always thought there was something odd with this.
Sabrar wrote:Extrapolation. I got the impression from Crossover that you were considered super-experienced. You can lead Town when town, you can easily mimic it when you're scum.
It’s not quite a ping, just odd. Sabrar didn’t need to extrapolate. DGames meta was much discussed in Crossover. I don’t recall right now exactly what or who, but everyone was quite open about it. Also YOLOSWAG posted links when he was promoting the game, and other players posted links during the game. It‘s very easy to look up Ranmaru’s meta if Sabrar hadn’t already researched it for the previous game; he didn’t need to guess.

See also comment here. I’m going to note it because it’s somewhat related.
Sabrar wrote:
Zenii wrote:If not, how do you think my play here differs from Crossover and the games I linked you in Crossover?
I'll be brutally honest with you and tell you that I only skimmed your linked games as I wasn't really interested in them. It was several months ago and I have absolutely no recollection of them and no time to go through them again.


This was something that I thought about a lot, I’ve previously pointed it out here.
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Vicarin is so obv-town it hurts my eyes.
Obvi-town, or obvi-not-mafia?
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Obvi-not-mafia. He currently doesn't have a chat-partner.
Noted, and interesting that you initially equated your read that he doesn’t have a chat partner with obvi-town.


Next note reference this post.
Sabrar wrote:Recently most games had day-chat for scum so I just assumed this would be the case here as well. I can see arguments for night-chat only though.
Sabrar said something in his last game about where he doesn’t ask questions when he is reasonably sure of the answer, but I’m a bit surprised Sabrar would assume this.

So D2 starts and Sabrar heuristically_alone claims a town cop result on Sabrar, and later so does wam. I think heury is scum so I don’t trust his claim. Not sure about wam but I think that two claims make it more likely that one of them is true. Or Sabrar could be godfather with heury or wam I guess. Anyway this should be clearer tomorrow.

Reference this post.
Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:So you post about everyone not using personal meta, but you scum read Zen when he does it?
I don't think that was a personal meta used by Zen. It's that simple.
Still uneasy about this response though because it’s opinion.

Reference this post.
Sabrar wrote:Honestly I would prefer to lynch plytho so we can clear Zen for PoE but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who thinks that way.
Otherwise we should probably NL or lynch Madge to clear freezeblade but I'm against that one as well.
This bothers me because I have never approved of lynching someone just for PoE (by this I mean lynching someone that may be townie just because for their flip or because it’s important to eliminate a power for PoE, see X-men and adnapemit). But this is not alignment indicative from Sabrar.

somitomi
D1 content is light, which is normal for him (but maybe just a bit lighter than usual). He’s cautious about alignment-changing roles, PR claims, multiple lynches, normal for him. There’s not a lot of analysis in his reads list, which is also normal for him. I don’t like the timing of his claim. He didn’t have any votes on him D1, but he doesn’t post a lot, possibly doesn’t check the thread multiple times every day, so if he’s town he probably should have claimed this early D1 (note that D1 ended early so he might have claimed as it got closer to end of day). D2 content is much of the same, some questions and brief responses, just sort of going along, nothing really stands out to me in his content. Still waiting for more content.

Vicarin
Have I talked about Vicarin yet this game? :P

Vicarin, I made an effort to reread you but I keep coming back to my indie read. I saved you for last when I was making this list and to be honest I just ran out of steam after Zen and Sabrar. I’ve been working on this all day and don't want to delay this post any longer but I will come back to you later when I step back and evaluate this list.

wam
Early D1 I had a slight ping over this post.
wam wrote:I disagree a lot with peaceful whale's initial post. Voting is always good for town and in this setup even more vital.

Also PW is being PW so far.
Disagreed with Peaceful Whale, but brushed it off as PW being PW. Much of my D1 content was based on my suspicion that Peaceful Whale was deliberately trying to make suspicious behavior his meta, so that everyone would just equate it with his meta, not with anything suspicious, as wam did. Since then Peaceful Whale flipped town so wam can’t be mafia with him, but I still question his dismissal of content he disagreed with just because it was Peaceful Whale.

Zenii
I haven’t commented that much on Zenii because he’s probably the most talked about and most analyzed player in this game, and much of my observations had already been pointed out and analyzed by someone else by the time I had an opportunity to post. Like the discussion over D1 ending early, I find his explanation plausible, but I am having a hard time that such an experienced player would make that mistake as town. When Zen claimed he was already at L-3 and reading his power claim it appears Suzaku could have called night at any time after that. I could be interpreting this wrong, because I still think Zen is leaving something out. This seems like too much micromanaging for Suzaku as I already stated here and I suspect that Zen still had to pm Suzaku to activate his power. This is further reinforced by the fact that Zen was able to post a nice long reads list here right before end of day, and most people did not have an opportunity to respond. I already posted a suspicion that the only reason Zen announced this on D1 was to slow his wagon, see here.
bessie wrote:
Zenii wrote:I don't like it. And anyways if scum had my ability, it would be better for them to do it anonymously.
Yes if they have the luxury of doing it anonymously. You had to announce your power to slow the votes on you. Wouldn’t you have been lynched if you were hammered before Suzaku came on line?


Something that I keep coming across in my reread, Zen flips a lot on Vicarin. Early D1 Zen has Vicarin as a solid scum read. By the time Zen makes his D1 reads list, Vicarin is a town lean. D2 when Vicarin is at L-1, Zen makes a threat in large letters not to hammer him here, he wants us to wait for his reads post, which happens almost a day later here. And Vicarin moves back to highly likely scum. Somewhere in between those two posts there was this post and my reply.
bessie wrote:
Zenii wrote:I don't think him getting caught up in the names is any indication of his alignment, just personality.
Really, you think the role name fishing was just because Vicarin was getting caught up in the flavor, and you are totally dismissing that he may be indie looking for a target (or I guess he could be scum looking for a power role)?

And this one with my reply.
bessie wrote:
Zenii wrote:@sabrar, we have a lot of time to do as many lynches as we need. There is no need to rush it. Why are you trying to rush it? I have outgoing questions for vic.
Interesting after you were so anxious to get a quick lynch on heury.

So all this ends up at Vicarin is 65% town (see here)?

Hmm, also came across this.
Zenii wrote:I'm not so hard headed. When I feel I've been pushing something hard enough, I'll take the time to change perspective and reevaluate. A few of your recent posts looked to me like coming from a town perspective.
Interesting, you are allowed to reevaluate, but I’m scum for reevaluating.

Some quotes on Zenii’s mafia philosophy. Reference here.
Zenii wrote:Like BoomFrog, I think it's important to place scum in unique situations, where they have to act on their feet.

And reference here.
Zenii wrote:I explained this already to Wam. My game philosophy is very similar to this.
I don’t disagree with your philosophy, and this is one of the things I like about you (and about BoomFrog). But there’s a point where your playstyle stops being helpful in drawing out content and is determental to town. BoomFrog knows when he reaches that point, see here and here. And I really doubt town BoomFrog would have let a BoomGimmick go so far as to end D1 like you did.


Will try to tie this together and draw some conclusions tonight. Note I did not check to make sure all the links point to the right places.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:20 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Zenii wrote:I was wrong. Bessie is scum.
Why? Because George says so?
No, because of the things you've quoted below.

Zenii wrote:Bessie is avoiding stepping on toes too hard. Her reads are calculated, not genuine. Genuine bessie is agressive, unwavering, and full of constant hounding. Bessie's' supposed doubt in her Vic read is "brownie" but it is not Bessie. It is a calculated post to avoid stepping on the toes of someone's who's lynch potential has decreased.
I have issue with this because you are being selective in your examples. You pulled out two examples from Secret Santa to support your point. Yes I was scum in that game. But I can probably go through games where I was town and find similar examples. I skimmed the most recent game (Newbie New Year) for an example, see here where I backed off MasterOfAll because I started to question my interpretation of his inactivity, when in my previous post I said I was willing to lynch him. This may not be the best example, but I’ve been pondering this for 20 minutes and I don’t know how worthwhile it would be for me to go back and reread more of my town games looking for examples, especially as this would not be a simple key word search, I would need to dig in to my content. To respond to the meta part, I’m not unwavering as town, and this is wine but I’ve been having a lot of self doubt recently over my aggression I can go over this if you think it is important, as it came up in Newbie New Year.
It's not selective. That's the only scum game you've had in a while.

Your response to MOA isn't the same. It's not in game, it's out of game. You show out of game empathy often. Ex: George not being happy with his role.

If you can find a single example of you, as town, detailing the reconsideration of your read, I will retract my point. Of course you have reconsidered reads. It would be an amazing feat of stubbornness if you never did. What is suspicious here, as it was with your SS plytho read, is the detailing of it. It doesn't have a purpose other than perception management -- or, as Hari put it, "to show that you are 'thinking' about your read".

Zenii wrote: Oh man you're right, Madge is so scummy because she hasn't breadcrummbed, you're tunelling so hard right now. /s Please quote all of the times you've pushed for Madge's lynch this game.
I haven’t pushed Madge. D1 ended early, as I'm sure you recall, and I ran out of time before I got into push mode on anyone. D2 I’ve been pushing Vicarin (and early I suppose heury). And I haven’t claimed to be “tunneling so hard” on Madge, those are your words, I claimed to be tunneling Vicarin.
They are my words, that you disagreed with:

Bessie's focus has been entirely on Vic. . I don't think she's interacted with Madge anymore than she's interacted with anyone one else that isn't Vic. In her recent posts, she had only mentioned Madge indirectly in her responses to Vic, to explain how she views differences in play style.

Not true. I voiced suspicion over Madge’s lack of breadcrumbing, which is entirely against her meta, despite her protests. It just happened to be in a response to Vicarin about something else.


My interpretation of the events:
-I say you haven't pushed/interacted with Madge any more than anyone that isn't Vic.
-You disagree.
-I ask you to point out where you have been pushing Madge.
-You say you haven't been pushing Madge.

Am I misinterpreting?

Zenii wrote:Scum logic. The fact that Madge has done it at least once should disprove this as a scum tell. And you're indicating here that she has done it a few times. You're not looking for scum, bessie, you're just pretending.
Earlier when I did a quick check I only looked at games on the first page that I played and that Madge played from the beginning (not as a replacement), and three others where I distinctly remembered the breadcrumb. Madge then stated that she did not breadcrumb in Crossover, Newbie New Year, Shakespeare, or this game. I had somehow missed Shakespeare (but it turns out she did breadcrumb in that game) and Crossover, and I already said she wouldn’t have breadcrumbed in Newbie New Year because she soft claimed. So when I made my comment I was acknowledging that I missed at least one recent game (note: I didn’t play any games for about 7 months in 2016). I’m also acknowledging that Sabrar has a point that Madge’s meta has been a topic of discussion and that she has made a conscious effort to change it. I don’t see why you find it suspicious that I want to consider if I missed something. Typing this out now I remember Madge claimed in Crossover, she didn’t need to breadcrumb.
bessie, I have no problem with the first line of the post:
Ok you have a point that Madge’s meta comes up a lot and she’s made a conscious effort to change it recently, but still this would be one of the few games she didn’t breadcrumb as town, except Newbie New Year where she tried to false soft claim.
It is the BUT line that is scummy. I don't think you are actually trying to find scum, because there's no reason you should be continuing on with this point. If Madge has played a town game before without breadcrumbing, then why are you still using it as a point?

This made me think of something else too: If I recall, the only time you've used meta to justify a read is SS. Is that correct?

Zenii wrote:Just know Ran. He's not capable of that level of manipulation, and he was able to answer the questions Vic and I were asking immediately, which means he wasn't being fed answers by partners.
Hmm, how are you so sure mafia has day chat?
You're misinterpreting. Ranmaru is not capable of that type of manipulation. Therefore, if he was lying, it would have had to have been his scumbuddies' idea. Since he was able to answer our questions so quickly, he wasn't being coached by scumbuddies. Therefore, he likely wasn't lying. Regardless of whether there is Day or Night chat.

(Haven't read your reads post yet.)

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:23 am UTC

I suspect that Zen still had to pm Suzaku to activate his power.
Nope, Madge voted me when I was offline. You're probably interpreting it that way because of the flavor. I'm honestly insulted that you think I would intentionally do that to you guys. From my perspective, I made an honest effort to prevent it from happening. As I said before, I did indeed make a mistake for setting the condition so high and also not paying attention (experience has nothing to do with it; I'm just a ****y player, and also not plytho). I made it clear that if town wanted to test my claim, then I should have been the last lynch of the day. There seriously would have been no reason not to save me for last.

You know, I just realized there may be something that is misunderstood about that whole situation: you guys do realize that the day would have continued had Madge not voted me, right? Since Suzaku wasn't online when heury voted and unvoted, I don't think my ability would have activated. This is why I was scum reading Madge so hard for her hammer. Even if I was lying about having a day ending ability, there was literally no reason not to save me for last. And Madge wanted to vote for me even before Sabrar pointed out that heury had already put me at L-3. Scum!Madge was put in a w/w situation. If I was telling the truth, the day would end. If I was lying, I'd be lynched for lying.

@plytho, I forgot to respond to your question before, but this is what I was referring to.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:26 am UTC

bessie wrote:LaserGuy
I had an early concern that LaserGuy was going to be relying too heavily on the flavor for his reads and analysis. His style has changed a bit lately, his early game was a lot of poking people and at times he’s a bit cryptic, and I did think that he intentionally left me off of his D1 reads list here to see if I would notice. I have agreed with most of his D2 content. He’s noted that he and I aren’t usually on the same page, which is true. But in this game I like his content, and I like his methodical approach even when I don’t agree with him.


I'll dig into this more in a bit, but this really stuck out to me. What gave you the impression that I was relying on flavor for my reads and analysis? I don't know this flavor at all, and don't recall really spending any time talking about it.

ninja by Zen.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:51 am UTC

@bessie:

Who do you think is mafia? I don't really get a good sense of your actual scumreads from your list beyond the indie read on Vic.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:51 am UTC

Zenii wrote:You know, I just realized there may be something that is misunderstood about that whole situation: you guys do realize that the day would have continued had Madge not voted me, right? Since Suzaku wasn't online when heury voted and unvoted, I don't think my ability would have activated. This is why I was scum reading Madge so hard for her hammer. Even if I was lying about having a day ending ability, there was literally no reason not to save me for last. And Madge wanted to vote for me even before Sabrar pointed out that heury had already put me at L-3. Scum!Madge was put in a w/w situation. If I was telling the truth, the day would end. If I was lying, I'd be lynched for lying.

@plytho, I forgot to respond to your question before, but this is what I was referring to.
Right, thanks. Here's why I was asking: the underlined doesn't make any sense. It only makes sense if scum knows how your ability works, particularly the fine print about suzaku being online while your condition met. You're calling Madge scummy for using an undeclared detail of your role.

From our perspective you were caught in a lie as it was shown you didn't have a day ending power. There no way for Madge to know her l-3 vote was any different than heuristically_alone's.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:59 am UTC

plytho wrote: Right, thanks. Here's why I was asking: the underlined doesn't make any sense. It only makes sense if scum knows how your ability works, particularly the fine print about suzaku being online while your condition met. You're calling Madge scummy for using an undeclared detail of your role.

From our perspective you were caught in a lie as it was shown you didn't have a day ending power. There no way for Madge to know her l-3 vote was any different than heuristically_alone's.

Zenii wrote:Even if I was lying about having a day ending ability, there was literally no reason not to save me for last. And Madge wanted to vote for me even before Sabrar pointed out that heury had already put me at L-3. Scum!Madge was put in a w/w situation. If I was telling the truth, the day would end. If I was lying, I'd be lynched for lying.

@plytho, I forgot to respond to your question before, but this is what I was referring to.


Madge wrote:I'd vote Zenii but I don't want to cause flack for causing them to fly closer to L-3 until we have an agreement.

(source)

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:03 am UTC

Ok, Madge thought you were scummy for that claim but didn't vote while she believed may be true to avoid day end? That's like people saying I'd vote x but don't want to get too close to hammer yet.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:10 am UTC

lol jeez. Answer me this then:
Zenii's claim is bizarre and seems to fly in the face of Suzaku saying that we will always know if someone is voted off or not.
What does knowing whether or not someone is voted off have to do with controlled ending of the day? (I actually really don't know what she's saying here, and I have a mini-stroke every time I try to figure it out)

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:15 am UTC

plytho wrote:Ok, Madge thought you were scummy for that claim but didn't vote while she believed may be true to avoid day end? That's like people saying I'd vote x but don't want to get too close to hammer yet.
And no, it's not. Her goal wasn't to avoid day end, her goal was not to get flack for it.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:30 am UTC

Not getting flack for getting you closer to l-3.

And you're avoiding the core of my argument, which is that Madge has no way of knowing she's hammering when she's hammering.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:53 am UTC

Zenii wrote:lol jeez. Answer me this then:
Zenii's claim is bizarre and seems to fly in the face of Suzaku saying that we will always know if someone is voted off or not.
What does knowing whether or not someone is voted off have to do with controlled ending of the day? (I actually really don't know what she's saying here, and I have a mini-stroke every time I try to figure it out)
Madge is (probably) referring to the first question in the Q&A spoiler in the op. Which isn't entirely contradictory to your claim, but can be interpreted as such.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:06 am UTC

@Sabrar: are you still convinced town!Madge clears Freezeblade? Is it just because scum!Freezeblade would keep his roleblock quiet or is there more to it?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:19 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why did Sabrar feel the need to justify these reads? He distanced himself from these reads later when he claimed he wrote them before the game even started,
How did you miss this? I justified my serious reads which happily coincided with my joke-list in a large decree.

bessie wrote:It’s not quite a ping, just odd. Sabrar didn’t need to extrapolate. DGames meta was much discussed in Crossover. I don’t recall right now exactly what or who, but everyone was quite open about it. Also YOLOSWAG posted links when he was promoting the game, and other players posted links during the game. It‘s very easy to look up Ranmaru’s meta if Sabrar hadn’t already researched it for the previous game; he didn’t need to guess.
I'll explain again. I don't do the research when I'm scum because it's a waste of time from my (irl) perspective. I also don't do the research when I'm posting for fun.

@bessie: you note a lot of things about my content but don't comment on them or draw any conclusion. What's up with that?

plytho wrote:@Sabrar: are you still convinced town!Madge clears Freezeblade? Is it just because scum!Freezeblade would keep his roleblock quiet or is there more to it?
That's the only reason and I'm not 100% sure of it. I would say 85%.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Suzaku » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:33 am UTC

Execution votals:

freezeblade - 1 (Evil George Washington)
Zenii - 1 (wam)
Vicarin - 1 (bessie)
Evil George Washington - 6 (LaserGuy, plytho, Vicarin, freezeblade, Sabrar, Madge)

Not voting: somitomi, Zenii

Evil George Washington is executed. His role will be revealed inthe morning.
Dealine is extended 24 hours.

Current votals:

freezeblade - 1 (LaserGuy)
bessie - 1 (Zenii)
Lights Out - 1 (Sabrar)
Zenii - 1 (wam)

Not voting: bessie, freezeblade, Madge, plytho, somitomi, Vicarin

With ten alive, six votes are required for execution.

Deadline is 11:00 on 2018/3/7 JST (=2018/3/7 02:00 UTC) this will not be extended further.
Note that a lynch within 12 hours of deadline (i.e. after 3/6 14:00 UTC) now ends the day automatically.


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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:48 am UTC

If you're in Perth, remember that you promised me a drink :lol:

I don't have anything to add, plytho has hit the nail on the head.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:49 am UTC

Vote zenni
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Suzaku » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:13 am UTC

Madge wrote:If you're in Perth, remember that you promised me a drink :lol:

I remember it clearly. Unfortunately, I'm in Brisbane this time and only here for a week, so I won't be able to make it to Perth.
If you want to jet over to Brissie, however...
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:22 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:@Sabrar: are you still convinced town!Madge clears Freezeblade? Is it just because scum!Freezeblade would keep his roleblock quiet or is there more to it?
That's the only reason and I'm not 100% sure of it. I would say 85%.
That's where I started, but the lurking and not listening to what I was saying has it dropping fast. He also promised more info on his reads more than 48 hours ago.

I don't think Madge flipping town would make me feel much better about Freezeblade at this point.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:23 am UTC

And I still want three lynches today so I'll.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:24 am UTC

Seeing as we've got apparently 2 people going for Zenii right now anyway:

@plytho: how strongly can you confirm Zenii as town? Can you do so more strongly tomorrow or something? Or have I been misinterpreting what's been going on, I thought you apparently had a good reason to think he's town.

I mean, if plytho is willing to put forward info and vouch for Zenii, I'm not sure why we have people voting for him right now.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:29 am UTC

plytho wrote:And I still want three lynches today

I disagree with that mentality. The realistic aim for today was to get at least 2 scum, I feel this has been achieved. There is no point in executing any more just for the sake of execution itself. A LOT depends on whether EGW was truly SK or just scum (e.g. if SK then I feel Vicarin can't be Lyncher, if scum then claimed links are less likely to be scum-pairs).

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:30 am UTC

Agreed, I'd prefer to stop here all else being equal, but I think people want to kill another person so I'm putting my vote to enable my strongest scumread to be the "beneficiary" of that bloodthirstyness.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:39 am UTC

Also I'm hoping scum's flip will reveal whether they have day-chat or night-chat only, that would also play a significant part in my evaluation of e.g. Vicarin.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:52 am UTC

I guess you have a point, Sabrar. I was a little afraid we didn't get any mafia today and wanted to increase our chances. But after the flips I think we'll either have one scum down or know at least one so I'm fine with lights out. (not until we've heard more from the quiet people though)

I was thinking night chat because of the long nights but it's pretty harsh on scum if they can't talk in between lynches. So now I think daychat is more likely.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:54 am UTC

So if h_a flips town and EGW flips SK, do we have enough to go on?

At least cult is looking less and less likely, though we need the flips to be sure.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:05 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:So if h_a flips town
Do you think that's a likely scenario?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:12 am UTC

Not very, but it could reasonably happen?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:21 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Also I'm hoping scum's flip will reveal whether they have day-chat or night-chat only, that would also play a significant part in my evaluation of e.g. Vicarin.


That's unlikely to be in a flip I would think, unless we get full role pms . I am happy with any of the three below

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Zen lynch
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 am UTC

Thinking again, there's a possibility that we lynched two indies today so we may not be any closer to scum on their flips.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:39 am UTC

plytho wrote:Thinking again, there's a possibility that we lynched two indies today so we may not be any closer to scum on their flips.
Is this again you convincing yourself? What is the basis of the indie read on h_a? I think the sheer fact that multiple players strong town-read h_a at the very beginning would much more likely imply a connection than all of them being wrong/unnecessary sheeping.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 am UTC

It's not, I explained my indie read earlier and I think it's unlikely that we hit two indies but still possible.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 am UTC

EBWOP: all the way at the bottom of the linked post
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:04 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:Pre-reread imprssions and thoughts:
Somi, I saw you reading the thread earlier, do you have any post-reread impressions and thoughts?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby somitomi » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:45 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
somitomi wrote:Pre-reread imprssions and thoughts:
Somi, I saw you reading the thread earlier, do you have any post-reread impressions and thoughts?

Not really. :?
I had way less computer time than expected and to be honest rereads are just not my thing. I usually end up feeling no wiser than before and having spent an inordinate amount of time on it. I've been reading the four people mentioned at the end of my previous post for the last 1,5 hours or so and yet have no particular impressions. I think what this all boils down to is that I'd prefer Lights Out at the moment, we've only had one flip to go on after all.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:16 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
plytho wrote:
somitomi wrote:Pre-reread imprssions and thoughts:
Somi, I saw you reading the thread earlier, do you have any post-reread impressions and thoughts?

Not really. :?
I had way less computer time than expected and to be honest rereads are just not my thing. I usually end up feeling no wiser than before and having spent an inordinate amount of time on it. I've been reading the four people mentioned at the end of my previous post for the last 1,5 hours or so and yet have no particular impressions. I think what this all boils down to is that I'd prefer Lights Out at the moment, we've only had one flip to go on after all.


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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:17 pm UTC

Ignore that I'm being an idiot
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:27 pm UTC

Hi Eveveryone! Sorry, I forgot to mention to all the folks who haven't played with me before (and I've been away for a while), when at work I am in front of a computer screen all day, so I have a tendency to avoid screens on weekends, and am generally pretty absent during them.

I am willing to wait on Zenii if that's the general consensus, pending some result from plytho, we've had two lynches today, and I think it may be best to get some information from flips, so that we can see where we stand beginning of D3.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:41 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:@plytho: how strongly can you confirm Zenii as town? Can you do so more strongly tomorrow or something? Or have I been misinterpreting what's been going on, I thought you apparently had a good reason to think he's town.
I can't say for sure until tomorrow. Heury's flip is relevant. My claim is in this post.
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